An Agnostic Spends a Year with God

What would happen if an agnostic committed to thinking about God for a year? In this episode, Sean and Scott discuss the recent book "My Year with God," by Danish psychologist and 2018 "Humanist of the Year" Dr. Svend Brinkmann. They discuss positive takeaways from the book and some areas of disagreement about the intersection of science and faith, evidence for the soul, and how to go on a spiritual quest. This is an episode you won't want to miss! Please check it out and share with a friend.
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[@helveticalouie]

10:45 🎉 to entertain the possibility of God, the primary barrier is not intellect but pride. Wow spot on.

[@russellmiles2861]

I had wondered what the difference is between Christianity and Vampirism. Both adore and evil entity in exchange for immortality.

[@phyrisl2]

@@russellmiles2861 Well, Vampires don't have to adore anything, they just drink blood to live. They are only immortal under certain definitions. While they don't decay or die, they do not and cannot live forever, as the conditions necessary for their survival are not eternal. More importantly, why comment something entirely random that has nothing to do with the original comment? Make a separate comment if you have something different to say.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

For me, the primary barrier to entertaining the Christian God (or the God of Islam and Judaism, the God of Abraham) is not pride. It is that the God of Abraham is a fictional character from mythology. It is so obvious to me from reading the Old Testament that the ancient Hebrews fabricated a God who chose them and the stories which support that character. I don't see how people can miss seeing it.

[@m76353]

i mean the vast majority of christianity IS intellectual tho. for instance the OVERWHELMING VAST MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS believe that you have to believe certain scientific and historical claims in order to be saved. wouldn't that be the epitome of intellectualism? altho i do agree with the main point tho. Jesus didn't seem to concerned about science and history, like it didn't seem like the basis of his main message

[@liljade53]

@@Simon.the.Likeable you would think that if the ancient Hebrews had fabricated a God who chose them and the stories that support that character, that they would have made themselves look a whole lot better than they do. They show that for the most part they disappoint that God so badly that he punishes them, exiles them, brings disaster on them, and conquering nations because of their unfaithfullness. He sends messengers called prophets to tell them how rotten they are. As they say, you can't make this stuff up, or, if you wanted to feel like the special chosen people of God, would you make up stories that make yourselves look so bad?

[@JonasGjerrild]

Awesome! Need to share this one for sure! Jonas from Denmark 🇩🇰

[@SeanMcDowell]

Thanks for watching from Denmark!

[@FPVMike]

This is actually the best one of these you have done. So many considered insightful points. I found myself rewinding this several times to re-hear what you both had to say. Really fantastic.

[@Jackjohnjay]

Such a great and fair review.

[@Lillaloppan]

En MYCKET intressant diskussion👍!! Tack så mycket😄🙏!

[@ulladahl8814]

helt enig!

[@liljade53]

I wish this Danish author had known about the Naga, Hmar, and Garo tribes of Northern India, the Nicobar, the tribe in the Peace Child narrative, and many others, who were basically lifted from head hunting, and tribal warfare, in many cases the stone age, by being presented with the God of the Bible.

[@randyblackman6271]

Now correlate that with how many people have been killed, enslaved, raped and colonized after being introduced to the God of the bible?

[@dicksonbeaver9935]

Hundreds of milliions if not billions have been murdered by Christians who spread the word of Jesus at the point of a sword. Not to mention that Jesus himself drowned millions of babies

[@adamcosper3308]

Is converting to Christianity really an improvement for them?

[@liljade53]

@@adamcosper3308 ask them

[@liljade53]

@@adamcosper3308 150 years ago, the Naga were warring with other tribes and hunting heads. I can't imagine head hunters make good husbands or good dads. Recently, a woman of the tribe studied to be an architect and designed what is today the biggest Christian church in Asia. Her people must be prosperous to have donated the monies for such a huge building. There is a you tube channel called Naga Seminarian. Both the church, and the channel, show that 150 years later, a large amount of them are still Christian, and seem happy about it.

[@mikescollard6499]

Imaginary? I think we can all agree that life and the universe exists. It is a magnificent mystery still. Yet science does prove you can't create something from nothing.

[@maryloulongenbaugh7069]

We’ve had it drilled that, ‘nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could’, sound of music by Richard rodgers of Rodgers & Hammerstein-God is not the servant of science.

[@glennshrom5801]

I like this conversation about the book! Thank you Sean and Scott. It reminds me of when Greg Epstein came out with "good without God" (lower case g sic), and I wrote a critique of his book. I think a lot of atheists/agnostics need to hear better presentations of the Gospel, and I am thankful to God that so many better presentations are being made today, thanks in part to folks like you two, in your obedience to Christ! Don't let your critics get you down. Keep sowing those good seeds! God has different types of evangelists for different fields; some of your critics think that their evangelism must be universal and that all other approaches are wrong. May God widen their vision to be more like His, in the hope that their sorrow over you may turn to rejoicing!

[@glennshrom5801]

In the tenth minute, I think of Dallas Willard's criticism of the mainstream Christian unspoken but implied admonition: You must believe this, whether you believe it or not. Which is also unlivable, yet it's what so many of our young church-goers have been hearing from the pulpit. Jesus' approach was very different. Jesus pulled out from people what people already somehow knew to be true, but what people had never been able to verbalize or clarify or externalize. He taught people why it was true, and how one could know, so that belief in him would be the natural result for the person with the humble heart and open mind.

[@hrvad]

Don't fret too much about the functional aspect. It has attracted me to Christianity from a place way more radical than that of my countryman Brinkmann, although at this point I can't call myself Christian. But I'm here, right? I'm listening at least, and I do like you guys. A lot.

[@truthbebold4009]

Have you checked out Bible Project?

[@MattTheMethodist]

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the “functional” approach. Many Americans do not know just how secular Europe is and just how many people grow up in a household where God just isn’t a point of discussion. I’m from the UK and I can’t imagine having approached Christianity any other way.

[@twine682]

And here is a similar experiment ( also available to see on youtube): After 25 years as an evangelical pastor I realized that Christianity is fiction - Bruce Gerencser 2.5K Likes 93,051 Views Feb 19 2023 Today I spoke with Bruce Gerencser, who pastored mostly Baptist churches for 25 years until he realized that Christianity is mythology and fiction, and deconverted. We discussed many topics including: Attending Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) Churches, starting with Tim LaHaye's church (of the "Left Behind" book series). Feeling close to god as he grew up. Saying the sinner's prayer at age 5 but rededicating his life as a teenager during a revival service and sharina with his church

[@Notevenone]

Trying “on” the Creator of all things seems disrespectful. And for a Christian to be an Atheist for a year is just impossible , dangerous and I don’t think we could last a week before having the Holy Spirit convict us.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

Absolutely 💯

[@Danybella]

I don't think "trying on" the creator is disrespectful at all. He doesn't believe in a creator and so he's just doing what he knows to do. I think God sees his heart and God uses EVERYTHING to draw us closer to him. I'm sure even this exercise planted some seeds, although he may not be aware of it. In the end, it's God that's makes it grow. Do him favor, pray for him.

[@russellmiles2861]

To be honest; when I met god I'll spit in his face. Such a wicked entity!

[@radscorpion8]

But not everyone believes in God through pure faith as you might, or have had convincing experiences. So they need some period to test whether God is real to them. If you deny that, then they will never be able to believe or their faith will be deeply hollow, as with many Christians brought up in the faith by relatives.

[@cecilspurlockjr.9421]

@Danybella Well, at the end of his experiment, we'll know one thing for sure and that's whether he was honestly seeking after CHRIST or not . CHRIST said if you honestly seek ME , you will find ME .

[@baxterwilliams2170]

Am I experiencing Deja Vu? I could have sworn I already saw Sean do a dialogue on this book

[@SeanMcDowell]

You might have seen this on Biola University's page!

[@elizabethgeorge4708]

The author you’re critiquing contradicts himself, he from one angle doesn’t like Christianity that is conservative and restrictive and from another angle blames Christians for not reflecting Christianity in their conduct. Other than that his sales pitch makes sense. But I do have feeling he’s using philosophical argument to rescue a society the likes of him created and put in a position that is being totally lost to other inferior and destructive ideologies especially Islam.

[@adamcosper3308]

How is that a contradiction? Why is Christianity better than Islam?

[@johnhaselton3019]

Hi there from Illinois 23:54

[@sigishere]

The question is , what is human ? whaere do we get perfection ? answer : mind , laws or materials. I get the answer from a mind!

[@glennshrom5801]

The video title has a singular subject and a plural verb. Perhaps the verb should have been the past tense "spent". At any rate, he did not spend a year with God so much as a year with thoughts about God, or perhaps more correctly, with thoughts about religion.

[@gardenladyjimenez1257]

Cue 6:00 - Responding to author Brinkmann's explanation for his exploration of faith, "...to see for myself that the believer's faith had made their life whole, meaningful, and worthy of emulation." In contrast, I lived my own first 40+ years as a person disinterested in faith. I had everything I wanted, and faith was not involved. Seeing FAITH in the lives of others, from my perspective, was explained in the most denigrating ways: simplistic, needy, preachy, weak!" Never...at any time...did I consider that faith was fulfilling/meaningful/inspiring...worthy of emulation. In his inquiry, Brinkmann entered the world of faith with humility, a world where he was willing to question his personal presuppositions, the only place where an agnostic/atheist can begin to really entertain and work to understand the world of "The Believer."

[@mebsteve47]

Here’s a challenge. Believe in God more right now. Here’s another challenge. Have more faith in God right now. How about one more. Love God more right now. If you’re honest you’ll find, none of these are possible. Why? Because none of these things come from Free Choice. They are all Spiritual. You must hear about The Spirit that will give Life to Belief in, Faith in and Love for Himself. You must get to know the Spirit of God before Belief and Faith in or Love for can come alive in you. The Gospel alone is the POWER of God that Saves us. He saves those that don’t choose to reject Him. He saves those who believe. And belief is NOT an intellectual thing, it’s a relational thing, yes a spiritual thing. To reject is always an intellectual thing controlled by a Spiritual thing. You read something the author wrote. “I can’t just choose to believe… I just don’t believe, how can you just choose to believe something you don’t believe.” I believe that statement. Sean said, “I agree, you can’t just choose to say you believe in God.” The Truth is we don’t have a choice. There’s only one way to God. And that’s through the hearing of The Gospel which REVEALS to us The Spirit of God. The Gospel POURS out to us The Spirit of God to SEE and Know and Trust and Love. From the beginning the Devil lied to us saying, we have a choice. God said, you don’t have a choice. Don’t eat. The day you do you will die. God wasn’t giving us a Choice. God was Loving us, warning us, guiding us, teaching us, and revealing to us. He was never giving us a choice in the sense we have been taught. The devil is the one that tempts us into to choice and deceives us into the choice. Not God. The Gospel brings our hearts and minds and soul and strength back to Trusting God. The Gospel Reveals to us the Faithfulness of God, His Grace, Mercy, Forgiveness, and Love. The Gospel lets us SEE the Goodness of God, yes His Spirit. Only those that don’t choose to reject Him or deny Him and His Work can SEE Him and Know Him. It’s when we get to KNOW Him that Faith in Him and Love for Him comes alive in us and Transforms us.

[@jenniferwatson7118]

I believe we don't 'have' a soul, we 'are' a soul. Body + breath of God = Soul. Saying we 'have' a soul separate to the body would mean believing the soul is immortal, and the Bible is clear we are not immortal.

[@bobhart9164]

Hey man :) I believe the bible makes it clear that this is not the case, but rather the body and soul are separate and not one singular thing. here is a verse in Matthew 10:28 that would state that... [28] And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (ESV) it seems evident that there is a distinction between body and soul, and also if people are either going to be with God for Eternity or without in Hell, that would also lead you to believe that there is a part of us that is immortal(Not the body/flesh or even the world, but the sou, unless God decide to end/destroy it)

[@maryellen3496]

Is there a website for Scott? What is his full name, please.

[@coreyfleig2139]

I don't know who the gentleman is interviewing Sean. Who is he?

[@emalee8366]

I align pretty closely with the author of the book. One of my great frustrations is fundamentalist Christians will tell me that I'm wrong, that I chose evil over belief in God, etc, but NO ONE is willing to have a conversation about it. Several pastors, including my former pastor have all turned me down on the offer to have a dialog. As a group, conservative evangelicals repeatedly give me the impression they want to shove their religion on me, be condescending when I don't accept it, and not be open to their beliefs being challenged in dialog. Furthermore, they collectively assume to know what motivated me to chose to walk away from faith, and it's never good; they're all wrong too. I have Facebook posts, text messages, and a long digital copy of my journey away from faith. I'm not relying on fallible human memory when I say it wasn't a heart issue as even this very video accuses me of! If I were treated with respect, I wouldn't care about Christianity, but I'm constantly disrespected. So, it's my life purpose (yes, I have a purpose in life as a non-theist) not to deconvert Christians but to minimize the fundamentalism that drives people to mistreat me and others. I'm armed with knowledge and reason, and no evangelical Christian is brave enough to talk to me no matter how respectful I am.

[@MountainFisher]

I believe in the God of the Bible and a risen Jesus of Nazareth Who is Lord. I believe the Bible is inspired, but not inerrant. Daniel's 70 week prophecy came true both figuratively and literally. The 70th week is not separate from the other 69. I'm a retired bio/engineer who believes in an old Earth, but not Darwinism, I studied under Lynn Margulis for a Summer. Darwinism isn't all there is. How welcome do you think I am in most churches?

[@emalee8366]

@@MountainFisher Not so much, and that's unfortunate. I support freedom of religion. I am supportive of Christians and others as long as they're respectful of others. I didn't stop believing in inerrancy until I was convinced out of the faith. I grew up in a Baptist school. In college, a Christian friend of mine convinced me that the earth is old, but even then I didn't believe life in earth has been around that long. Then I came across sediment varves, and a number of other things. I eventually believed in evolution. I was still a Christian and believed in inerrancy! I just had a really interesting interpretation of Genesis. 😂 My beliefs evolved over time, no pun intended. But I've likely had at least similar challenges to yourself in terms of fitting in. Being non-Christian is even harder to fit in anywhere.

[@MountainFisher]

@@emalee8366 Ever look up Lynn Margulis? I went to a lecture of hers at UCLA on Endosymbiosis when the Neo-Darwinist dogmatists ostracized her, but she was right in the end. I always wondered how a molecule could adapt a land mammal into a whale so fast in such a short geologic time scale it couldn't be Darwinist processes and that was when they thought whales evolved in 10 million years let alone the 6 to 7 million that's been discovered. Think of how many changes a car would take to turn into a nuclear submarine. Gradually with what information or processes? So I accepted intelligent design, because the processes involve thinking somewhere. You see that biology degree coming through mixed with engineering. Just explain a Kinesin? Wow, a little man delivering goods within a cell. Biology is what changed Anthony Flew from an atheist to a Deist. No there is a God, and He created the Universe. Ever read Hugh Ross' book Creation and Time, guy is an astrophysicist and before he ever set foot in a church Genesis chapter one convinced him the Bible was onto something. Set forth the initial conditions after creating the Universe darkness was upon the face of the deep. So it established the point of view, the surface of the deep and the clouds became translucent like a cloudy day etc. Go read it from that point of view. No literal Flood, just a big flood. How else could there still be Nephilim after the Flood? Two accounts of creating men and women. Oh, and the 7th day hasn't ended.

[@emalee8366]

@@MountainFisher You might not know it by reading the Genesis, the there's 2 accounts of the flood interwoven into a single narrative. Sort the verses correctly, and you get 2 complete flood stories with different themes. I find anti-evolution arguments to all be arguments from ignorance. I don't personally find them persuasive. "It doesn't make sense to me that it could have happened this way" isn't science. Punctuated Equilibrium is slowly growing in popularity. What evolutionists used to think to be stupid is being upheld by genetics. Dr Sapolski mentions this somewhere in his lecture series (available on YT) the Biology of Human Behavior. Clearly, I need not tell you about how DNA works. Because some sections of code get reused multiple times to build different proteins, it's quite possible for a *relatively* large change to take place in a single mutation. My background is computer science. I've personally used the theory of evolution in creating genetic algorithms. It seems odd that if special creation took place, we'd have a phylogenetic tree that fits observations. Also, the order of fossils as dated through the various dating methods would corroborate the phylogenetic tree. If there is a God, then the evidence we have seems to fit so well with evolution, I would accuse God of lying if evolution weren't true. Old Earth Creationists call this the "Testament of Nature." Probably not a lot new to you in there. Perhaps punctuated equilibrium? Idk. But those arguments are fairly convincing to me. I find the Silence of God to be the most convincing argument against the existence of an omni-God. I'm told there's enough evidence that I should be convinced God exists, and therefore I'm without excuse for not believing. Yet, no one can demonstrate me to be unreasonable in my basic assumptions or the evidence I present. If there enough evidence for me to be convinced, than it really should be obvious, not in question, whether or not God exists. I'm treated as if both it's obvious God exists and therefore I'm choosing sin over God, and at the same time I'm treated as if there's just enough evidence to demonstrate God exists an so it's not obvious. If God's existence is so obvious, than why do Christian thought leaders need to invest so much time addressing the common experience of doubting one's faith? 🤦🏼‍♀️ These are Christians who already believe in God and WANT to believe in God who struggle to do so. No, God's existence is not obvious. If there was an all powerful, all knowing, all present, diety who wanted a relationship with me, than the absence of that relationship isn't on my end, and that type of absence is inconsistent with the definition of such a diety. Again, the diety is defined as both wanting that relationship and able to make it happen, and I would whole heartedly welcome that relationship if such a diety exists. Explanations for this have all failed to convince me. They appear to be ad-hoc attempts to reconcile reality to beliefs instead of vice versa.

[@MountainFisher]

@@emalee8366 Don't give up on Jesus because of crazy fundamentalists and to this day I have rarely ever _felt_ saved. But I know God exists and He spoke to us through His risen Son, the Lord Jesus. All that, after God allowed my youngest son to burn to death at 24 years old. I know why God took my son. After I tormented myself for being a messed up drunken father. I suffered terribly for being a poor father. It wasn't up to me, Jon showed fruit of the Spirit. Greatest conceivable Being's Plan _must_ be the greatest plan even though it involves Evil. Jon is with our Lord. The Psalms says multiple times that our Lord's mercy endureth forever.

[@kathleennorton2228]

I'm not sure why you tie "free will" into belief vs. atheism.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

Is it wrong because God said “thou shalt not kill” or did the writers pen that phrase because through mirror neurons, empathy and basic sense the writers realized this point? If God and absolute values then why so much fluctuation? Why are Christians (and ancient Israelites) so good at othering?

[@russellmiles2861]

you do recall what the story says God directed Mosses to do after he received this Commandment.

[@Jsmith0819]

Because we're not God. This is kind of the whole point of the Bible. We are not good at doing the right thing, especially when it requires humility.

[@fandude7]

Actually, it's "though shalt not murder." The Bible distinguishes between killing and murder.

[@Simon.the.Likeable]

The mythology of the ancient Hebrews was created to bolster their tribal cohesion. They lived at the crossroads of civilization surrounded by greater empires who conquered them time and time again. The Torah/Old Testament is full of their supremacist rhetoric. The Oral Torah which became the basis for the Talmud mirrors those intentions. These concepts are expanded through the Kabbalah and into the Tanya. Christianity and Islam reflected some of this but it was not their purpose. The purpose of Christianity and Islam was to turn the 70 Nations away from the old mythologies and have the 70 Nations accept the Noachide Laws. That way, Judea would always be the Promised Land and they would always be the tribe of priests with the 70 Nations serving them. Look how it has worked out for everyone.

[@russellmiles2861]

@@fandude7 that isn't actually what the text says in Hebrew... But Apologist are notorious for making shit up.

[@jaggedstarrPI]

Spent or spends. Fix the title...?

[@davidcoy3373]

You never understand how a car works but walking around, measuring, thinking and hypothesizing about it. You need to get to get in, turn on the engine and drive it to see how it works as a car. Sadly, this man is just walking around Christianity and considering what he sees without testing its power and work. So he needs to do something that is not new: experiment with what it looks like by the test of trusting what God has said and seeing what happens. Also, he seems, from this discussion, to put science and Christianity in different categories. Christianity is 'too dogmatic' (it certainly is for sinners). But science is fundamentally dogmatic. Imagine a Sharman going to a medical doctor and saying 'you are too dogmatic'. Belief in God is not having some mystical experience of God, its simply about trusting the words of God and conducting our lives accordingly. He says he can't believe in God, but all he needs to do is decide (for 12months or less!!!) to simply trust the words of this God and act on them. If he will, I'm guessing he will learn quickly whether God is there, whatever his moral opposition to God might want him to do.

[@TheHuxleyAgnostic]

This endeavor is somewhat moronic. "Agnosticism is of the essence of science, whether ancient or modern. It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe." ~ T H Huxley If he's agreeing that there's no evidence for the existence of a god, and never really forming a belief one exists, then he'd still just end up being an agnostic that uses religion as a crutch to get through life.

[@BigIdeaSeeker]

Sean: “I’m just not convinced the universe can give that message [of redemption and human value].” Many atheists: “I’m just not convinced Christianity gives that message [or is even true at all].” This is where everything should just stop (though interesting conversations can be had). But alas, Christians have to go and say the atheist suppresses belief to live a life of sin, that their life or world view is meaningless, that they have no basis for morality.

[@hondotheology]

you guys act like God is just some philosophical hypothetical exercise to play with in some giant spiritual sandbox. not a good sign of your relationship with Him

[@hondotheology]

agnostics can't think about God sean. 1 Cor 2.14. you cannot have any true thoughts about God until you trust in Christ. good grief.

[@livingtoaster1358]

That's not what it says...

[@hondotheology]

_But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised._@@livingtoaster1358 an unbeliever can understand nothing of God so how can he begin to think about God? everything he thinks about God is false

[@zhugh9556]

Is the thought "I need to trust in Christ" a true thought about God?

[@RandallChase1]

That verse doesn’t say you “can’t think about God” at all. James 2:19 says “Even the demons believe there is one God and shudder”. Would you say that they “trust in Christ”? Of course not. But they believe there is a God. With all due respect my friend, you are misunderstanding what 1Cor. 2:14 is saying. It says ““But the person without the Spirit does not receive what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually.” ‭ That means they can’t accept the Spirit of God without having a spiritual relationship. But to say they can’t even think about God is a misnomer. Love you brother!

[@makescode]

9:12 One of the most oft repeated nonsense claims of theists is that life has no value without god. If anyone anywhere values life (and most of us do), then life has value. Period. Also, I don't feel the need for some spaceless, timeless, disembodied mind to exist to give my life purpose. Should everyone be trying to live up to whatever purpose their parents had in conceiving them?

[@russellmiles2861]

And it is so obvious that theists don't accept this themselves. Eg, the Hebrew Bible includes over 600 Commandments, and does not actually have list of Ten Commandments. So how so Church leaders pick out which Commandments to include the Ten, what to ignore, and those they outright repudiate. Well, they de4velop a humanist view of ethics and what is good and bad and apply these ideals to test out the Text.

[@kathleennorton2228]

I was an atheist. I really thought that the material world was all that there was. I was able to function on different levels, but underneath I believed that life was meaningless. I and everyone I knew and loved would very soon be completely gone, as though, with a little passing of time, we never were. To me this is the very definition of meaningless. Our lives having no lasting value. Meaning and value are really one and the same.

[@kathleennorton2228]

​@@russellmiles2861The 10 commandments are the scaffolding that all other Old Testament commandments are built around. The 10 commandments are a very important Revelation from God Himself given to Moses on Mt. Sinai. ​Exodus 34:28 KJV - And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

[@russellmiles2861]

yet, there is no list of 10 Comments in the Hebrew Bible ... @@kathleennorton2228 I am always bemused when Christen can't be bothered reading their own book,. Exodus 20 lists 13, with a further 6 after that. Then a further 19 in the next section. Deuteronomy 5 list even more with the catch-all being 18:13 . The 10 were created by rabbinical scholars ... and then adopted by Christian churches.

[@aisthpaoitht]

If you're just a meat robot, why would your values mean anything at all?

[@dangdutirama1679]

Calling out to my Christian brothers and sisters. Please re-evaluate the bible. Especially, the verse Samuel 15:3 where god commanded the killings of children and babies. Samuel 15:3 - “Go and attack the Amalekites! Destroy them and all their possessions. Don't have any pity. Kill their men, women, children, and even their babies.”. Clearly, this is illogical as God is merciful. Don’t let the church and preachers deceived you with a tampered scripture.

[@MattTheMethodist]

Put it in context of ancient war where complete destruction of civilizations was normal, where the Amalekites had repeatedly attempted to do the same to Israel. It’s very challenging to read through modern thinking but as recently as the 1940s we were indiscriminately killing civilians in war. The USA dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian population centres, they killed far more women & children than Saul’s army were called to. This was a time in which God allowed slavery and divorce, He met man where man was and then sought to slowly bring man to where God is.

[@dangdutirama1679]

​@@MattTheMethodist You can put in any context. Yet, killing of innocent babies can never be justified. It is purely an evil and wicked act. The verse and the preceding verse are even problematic in the following sense: 1. Rather than doing himself, God in the bible has instructed others to do the killings and kept his hands clean. 2. The command to kill was driven by God’s vengeance against the Amalekites for their past and present misbehaviours. How could the babies be subjected to punishment for the others past behaviours? 3. The command was also to kill camels, sheep, oxes donkeys etc. What have these poor animals done that warrant them to be killed without mercy. 4. In the preceding verse, Saul did not complete the task and let some Amalekites to live. That would put Saul, a man, even more righteous and merciful than the god in the bible. I suspect the scripture might have be tampered or this is an interpolation in the bible.

[@velkyn1]

Hmm, thinking about imaginary nonsense for a year. How not impressive. And gee, which version of the christian god? You all have so many? I've thought about this god for 50+ years, and surprise, nothing much happens. I was a believer and then I came to the conclusion that this god doesn't exist. And thanks to the attempts of christains to force their lies on others, I stil think about this god to show how their harmful lies fail. Curious how all of that thinking came up with no evidence for this imaginary nonsense at all.

[@michaelpaulholmes9667]

Would you expect angry sarcastic typing on the internet in a deterministic universe of particles/waves that move/change according to physical laws? it's pretty unexpected on naturalism.

[@stls800]

Touch grass man Saying that " God doesn't exist because he obviously doesn't exist " isn't an argument.

[@stls800]

You probably haven't read any significant literature on the subject so your opinion is worthless. Bye

[@Apollos2.2]

All that thinking came up with no evidence? 🤔 What were you looking for and what evidence would you accept? I submit as exhibit A: The Earth and all the abundant life on.

[@davidjanbaz7728]

@@stls800 he obviously is touching/ smoking grass!