An Emergency Nerf Incoming: Sap of The Seasons - POE 3.25 - Path Of Exile - Settlers of Kalguur

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

Even before Snap, Woolfio made a vid discussing reaching over 1000 penetration with this item - in solo play!

[@seapeajones]

So glad to see another person giving Wolf his due

[@reality657]

Our group play concept around life burn tincture abuse was already pobbed prior to the Woolfio video. First iterations of the build I can find are from 1st August.

[@Rizso1]

sap is hard capping at 2940 stacks we are geting close to 6000 elemental penetration.

[@Ryan_but_the_name_was_taken]

I have pob’d a build using inquisitor and life regen from flat sources while wearing shavs and getting no life on gear. Could technically get around 180 stacks if done properly but I don’t know if your tree would be worth the travel nodes. This is using the keystone of course to lose life instead of mana.

[@Andrew-hz6ig]

I guess people (including wolfio) haven't realized it yet, but in solo play you wear 3 kalandra jewellery to get -615 maximum mana, making your max mana 2. Then, you run clarity with around 60 mana per second. This gives you 30x your maximum mana per second, meaning you can stack 3000 mana burn comfortably. It requires very little investment, not even an enduring flask for 100 mana/second. This is even assuming your kalandra jewellery don't have increased % mana regen (can easily get 100+). So, it's actually easy to sustain 3000 stacks in solo play on almost any build, if you can sacrifice your jewellery slots, run clarity on life, and run your skill cost on life.

[@Andrew-hz6ig]

e.g. manifold rings with catalysts

[@aleksandrssprogis8895]

Minimum mana burn per stack is 1 mana

[@Andrew-hz6ig]

@@aleksandrssprogis8895 yes, exactly

[@ikita]

@@Andrew-hz6igDo you mind explaining why is it necessary to lower your mana all the way to 2 instead of 100? As mana burn is 1 mana at minimum, wouldn’t it be the same for both cases?

[@Andrew-hz6ig]

@@ikita doesn't matter to go below 100, now, but we built it before league start and never changed it; the recovery from mana on hit is also never less than 1

[@luhcsgrimm8857]

I like this change. It seems reasonable. They arent changing it in a big way, still the same effect. Just capping it at 200. Whoch is STILL more, than most people will br able to get it at

[@lukasbrauneruv]

thats not how party play is doing this you got it wrong. You change manaburn to life burn through passives in the tree than you equip -333life kalandra jewellery so your max life is around 400 (because the lifeburn amount is based on your max life) and than you get all tincture effect nodes and equip rarity tincture aswell and once you attack with any skill you get 1stack per enemy hit and with bow projectile builds you can build up 2600stacks in less than 10seconds and you sustain the lifeburn through life regen bot thats providing 50k HP reg per second thats all.

[@diregarath5986]

Thanks for the fast update!

[@cr6458]

What they should do is make it so the elemental penetration is based on the amount of mana consumed by the mana burn recently, instead of rhe total mana burn. Fixes this issue while also encouraging a build style

[@andersongomes3211]

There's a group play strat where you turn your manaburn into life and another player can sustain almost to infinity with drugery belt and life flask scaling.

[@andersongomes3211]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rYm2gp1opbuAercsi=6j7dU8nzci8Csn0A

[@sirgog]

Ah yeah didn't think of that. Lots of ways to make it work it seems.

[@oBCHANo]

I really don't see how this actually matters, as if optimized group play wasn't already one shotting everything in t17 maps, lmao. Plus there's the fact that groups are not going to wait around for this to stack.

[@samarindt]

They could already use another tincture to build manaburn stacks and then swap tincture for the big effect.

[@Malficion]

I dropped my mana to 4 with 35 mana flat regen. The most I fould get is 80stacks. Am I missing something?

[@RamzaBehoulve]

Right when I just had found out about this item and was going to stack mana burn solo... But it's fine, 200% is still a lot of extra damage.

[@protomanex14]

Woolfio already proved u cana make a solo build to have up to 400 stacks. it not too hard to build it to.

[@sirgog]

I haven't seen his. Clarity on life with 100 max mana? Or something else?

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@sirgog He has a vid on it. Gets loads of flat mana regen from all sorts of sources, not just Clarity.

[@danocnl]

@@sirgog He used Power of Purpose and flat mana regen items.

[@protomanex14]

@@sirgog pretty much. The problem is the investment vs the dmg you get. It's fine when you can stack it, but now with the 200% cap, it's not worth investing into as much.

[@omegasybers1110]

​@@protomanex14I think 400% cap would be a better limit

[@lanceeverett5221]

Nice update! Does anyone know if in 3.25 they removed the boss-specific div card requirements? (e.g. I see brothers or Sephirot). If not, then if you scry this to new map, does it move it to the new boss only?

[@sirgog]

Seems to be zone specific now. Have NOT personally verified this.

[@SilentButDudley]

I see brothers can be found on strand. I farmed one card successfully on strand.

[@seanjones7822]

I don't have proof of this, but I did drop a divine beauty (12 set for 7 divs) from a normal mob in Underground sea early league. idk how it works with scrying a map tho

[@dungeonboss8356]

@@seanjones7822 divine beauty is not boss-specific div card, I dropped it from normal monsters too and on Strand too after scrying from underground sea.

[@Andrew-hz6ig]

Of course they'll nerf it for everyone, and not just large groups. Doesn't matter that solo builds who sacrificed a lot of investment for this penetration and depend on it for their damage will suffer. Omniscience will be the better build, and the narrow path of attribute stacking will remain the endgame for so many builds.

[@steinerdrei]

bloodsoaked blade turning the mana burn to life burn made it much easier and harder breakable

[@IllNacs]

but solo's clear t17s all day? how is it a group economic advantage?

[@spookyskeletal8901]

Thank you, Sirgog. Amazing as usual❤

[@ryomaanime4563]

I feel like it was not the best league to make my first blood magic build

[@HXRDWIREDGaming]

When i was playing Doryanits, the best you could get is -200%, so dropping it to the character max, makes sense. I like this direction with the devs.

[@sirgog]

That's changing monster resist. Penetration doesn't have that cap.

[@satibel]

before scourge it was uncapped and you could have a doryani bot at near -500%

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@sirgog Which is really strange imo. They've seen the dangers of this before, and capped negative resist cos of it. Why they didn't also think of capping penetration alongside that change as a futureproofing measure mystifies me.

[@aeowinh]

Now is more reasonable after the change, before you could reach 1000 penetration percentage in solo and 6000 for group play you basically will be doing billions of dps enough to kill the highest amount of hp enemies that exist in strats to farm uniques using blight. Honestly I'm surprised they acted fast with this nerfs.

[@zeltathewolf8844]

My question is, now with the new text. Would you get 400 pen or still 200 pen when you're at 200 manaburn stacks with 100% increased tincture effect?

[@SteveMichaelMusic]

If it follows the rules of Darkness enthroned and Amanamu's Gaze, % increased effect would not increase the cap, only the amount gained per stack. So it will cap out at 200% pen regardless of tincture effect.

[@sanityd1]

Where loot?

[@mcuhu1497]

i managed to sustain 250-300 manaburns on a jugg. still wasent good enough solo play to be worth the investment

[@minhocho5487]

From what I have seen they dont use the mana portion but use life burn with life flask sustaining this

[@sirgog]

Ah yeah that would work too

[@Windowlick_]

Yeah the strat was supposedly to have a support character use the druggery to sustain the carry's life. People were getting up to 6000% pen, which is a lot of damage to say the least.

[@kai-xuanyao4666]

i thought pen+negative resist is capped at -200%?

[@samarindt]

Pen isn't connected to - res. One is changing the monster res and the other is a local effect on the attack. I think they just missed capping it since they thought of capping the rarity tincture.

[@Sl4yerkid]

im a little confused how they can stack manaburn infinitely? Doesn't it progressively burn mana quicker? even the best clarity aura would fall off fairly quickly.

[@ImACookieTasteMe]

its 1% mana burn per second per stack but the mana doesnt tick it degens so if you have enough sustain you can manage over 100 stacks easy i made a gh warden that gets to about 150 before it becomes unmanageable solo

[@darudesandstorm7002]

it drains a percent so if you have low max mana and a high source of flat mana regen (clarity) it is basically infinite penetration.

[@buravona]

i pray every day for a video to show up to tell me loot is buffed, league rewards buffed, wages nerfed.

[@sirgog]

GGG made promises to fix the MF issues the last 2 leagues had & they've delivered. Crushing nerfs to top 2-3% of the playerbase that stop them dominating as hard as they used to have made ground loot SO MUCH BETTER for everyone else.

[@ahmedbadreddinemoucouf3662]

what you said doesnt make sence, how are you going to say that ground loot is so muc better if the best strat in the game is a non ground league mechanic, sanctum. It doesnt make sence to me that sanctum is still generating the same loot as last league while evey other mechanique is worse. And btw, the 3% didnt get hit, they just league started sanctum and made tghe same progree they make every league. The peoiple who got hit are the people like me who play 20h a week but still want to buy ralakesh boots, those are the one hit, because now eveything is very expensive when it comes to uniques. So even if the vision was positif, it didnt go as you describe it, because we the casuals prefere having league where the 1% is able to pump the market with useful items to pursue the power creep, i might not want necropolis or affliction level of items, but a minimum to make progression smooth. they gutted deffences, and added bases that need 2xx attribute, they brought back a recomb that is worst than reforge more likely, and u think the 2% that got hit? LOL

[@sirgog]

@@ahmedbadreddinemoucouf3662 Sanctum isn't as dominant as it was in 3.22 or even really close. It's good but struggles to compete with scarab mapping

[@chriscastle1629]

@@ahmedbadreddinemoucouf3662 Loot does not feel noticeably different for players who are not approaching quant cap & weren't MFing before. I have experienced 0 difference in the way loot feels this league. (And yes, Sanctum is kinda busted - There will always be something the top players are doing that is optimized. This is not a huge deal) The price of items is as they should be. Chase items are intended to BE chase items and players who play infrequently and are less experienced are not intended to be able to get them easily - that's the whole point. Anyone who has a character capable of comfortably clearing t16 maps can still make 5d an hour. If you're really playing 20h a week and you aren't a complete noob, that's a headhunter in a week. That's completely reasonable, and wanting more is a product of being showered with items due to affliction and necropolis being absolutely busted. This will never happen again, and you will have to adjust your mentality or move on from this game. The issues with defenses are a whole different argument unrelated to economy stuff. Ziz pointed out HC players are dying more often this league, and there is likely something to this. The game is still completely playable especially on SC and plenty of people are comfortably farming t17s.

[@ahmedbadreddinemoucouf3662]

@@sirgog this is only true in t17 xD, the whole scarab market is based arround t17 farming, we the normal mappers are left out, for me to farm ambush, i have to nuy scarab at a price that makes me loose money, because pf the crazy inflated prices . And i dont think balancing arround t17 is in anyway or form a positif for the casual player. Cause who is this casual who roll maps with 50 chaos, and buy a map at 70chaos xDDD and im not comparing sanctum in 3.22, im talking about sanctum un 3.25 being superior to every league mechanic that exist, since it doesnt even need an atlas LOL the investment vs return is clearlyin favore of sanctum. and it doesnt even need a real charachter

[@Tulkusiii]

Damn I can sustain 700 stacks solo…. I just don’t do ele damage

[@chrishensley8502]

Just saw another video on this and was like i want one now for my next build but even with the nerf will still be strong. So far great league but the town is keeping me broke😂

[@sirgog]

Yeah it should still be pretty bonkers. T17 gold is crazy, now that I'm into 17s I'm starting to roll in it. Synth maps are the next best thing.

[@ArawnOfAnnwn]

@@sirgog Try out that unique Tuahu map. Much cheaper than synths and T17s, but also crazy for gold. Skip the boss tho.

[@Sebb623]

Im so glad to see that they are this fast to nerfing and patching items that simply reduce the difficulty of the game to a small percentage of players, instead of patching out the massive Gold Economy Issues with Kingsmarch, the increased stability issues, the weak overall economy due to issues with farming anything by stuffing all the lucrative strats almost exclusively into t17. But my god im so glad Sap of the Seasons got instant hammered. Imagine if there were people in this game that would play it on easy mode, my god the horror. It would become unplayable for me knowing that some random guy uses an item that makes him super strong.

[@OmaTalkToMe]

Is there any use in getting more than 100% ele pen?

[@samarindt]

Yes. You can continue elemental penetration even is the mob has less than - 240 res (cap for exposure and curses). Highest number I've seen is 6000 elemental penetration.

[@cl8lf1wm8b]

@@samarindt its kinda weird if you think about it. its 'penetration' not 'reduction' so why would it go into negative numbers

[@stephenblackie-fu1sr]

Lacerate is pumping first voidstone down dogshit gear lets go I forgot about the slams to worried about charging the spheres lol lost 3 portals 😂😂

[@aryasingh3358]

i made a build and was able to sustain 1500 stacks solo tldr it caps out and respects the -200 res max. i dont know why they are changing it it, when i had 3000 ele pen it made no difference compared to 300 ele pen

[@sirgog]

That's changing monster resist. Penetration doesn't have that cap.

[@aryasingh3358]

@@sirgog nah it definitely does or something was bugged. as i said above, i would have seen a difference from when i had 100 stacks to when i had 1500 stacks and there was no substantial differnce

[@leifybear2286]

@@aryasingh3358 you are just wrong

[@Olanar2000]

You don't know what you're talking about there never was a cap for ele pen

[@aryasingh3358]

@@Olanar2000 I have literally no reason to lie but okay

[@winniethewhor]

Snap makes video --> item immediately nerfed

[@sirgog]

Yeah lol hilarious timing on that. I didn't actually see his video (it showed up in my feed after doing this). Good to see GGG fixing mistakes though.

[@alexanderblae3879]

First! Oh noe, someone was faster 😢 as usual: thanks for your content!

[@Siegram999]

200% is still busted lmao cause u still get it with a huge % dmg increase too.

[@11131618570]

When has armor scraps been rolled back to old version?

[@leonsibum7144]

Why?

[@kylemenos]

you are just unlucky

[@kamilmcki8631]

Damn imagine if they could buff shitty mechanics in the game mid league like they nerf stuff LMAO *cough*ground loot*cough*

[@AoiMiku]

when I first dropped this item I could already smell how broken this was gonna be

[@dolphlungrid1033]

Maybe they should nerf Aura bots instead of nerfing solo play? Pretty shit that they nerf solo play because some turbo nerds want to over optimize their team comp with a support class. Devs: "Hmm group play keeps causing issues due to broken interactions via support characters, lets nerf solo play" Fuck GGG

[@hayze7006]

Yeah, groups were going crazy with this one. Farming t17 pandemonium to print a shit ton of uniques. A strat that is unbelievably difficult for solo players but group players only needed a druggery support with a flask macro to x57 your dps. Why ggg didn't put a pen cap while making the item is beyond my comprehension. This + the div scarab exploit makes me wonder if they have anyone checking this shit before shipping it.

[@killuahsmathetricks389]

I also ask myself this. I was one of the people outside of empys Group who got suspended for the Bug in Ultimatum. No. I dont argur about that ban. Even though i still think that especially in solo play it wasnt Bad. Loot Was still shit, it just gave massive exp. My Biggesee question Was "how, if the Look stays Bad if you play solo, should you recognize something like this as an exploit?" And more so why the hell Was this im the game? Two timers that reset each other? It just feels like, that GGGs QA Departement is not existent or just doesnt care. Also the Oak/enduring cry crash bug at the start of the League... just annoying. And all three things werent rocket science. 1)two timers dependant on each other 2) a div card that is Level gated... i am sure no one woulf be able to abuse that if you could change the Level 3) a freaking point in the campaign ypu HAVE to go through... TLDR: I still love this game, but things like this let me question the competence of the employees at GGG...

[@kiqri]

Was planning to build around this x((... didn't even know people broke it... sad

[@mantastyle9078]

yet another nerf to group play lfg

[@txflood2519]

Get rid of group play completely. Game is clearly not designed for it from performance, to graphic design to especially the economy.

[@changthunderwang7543]

@@txflood2519 ur asking for an MMO to essentially become single planet

[@changthunderwang7543]

You’re basically asking to turn an MMO into single player

[@sirgog]

Most groups split up to be more efficient after the first few days. Outside a couple broken outliers, it's generally best to do group play early then split up & do 4-6 times as many maps per hour

[@alewis514]

@@changthunderwang7543 path of exile isn't a MMO. World of Warcraft is.

[@majorshepard2]

​@@sirgoggroup play blasting early league is the same philosophy as everyone has the last 3 leagues and the reason they do it. Abuse early abuse often.

[@colon_sausage]

🍺

[@The-Real-aPOC]

This is what I hate about games with both single play and group play, what works for single is either OP or abusable in group play and inevitably gets everything nerfed.

[@derekcoy9192]

Literally everything in this game thats works well gets nerfed...if even one streamer says OP or broken 1 time...nerf.

[@Zenbubbles]

​@@derekcoy9192Clearly you're trolling. This is not how GGG operates. Only massively overpowered things get nerfed, otherwise everyone has to specc into it or else fall behind economically. Just like Sirgog said...

[@The-Real-aPOC]

@@derekcoy9192 100% agree, if sirgog was to make a video saying that wisdom scrolls are OP, GGG would nerf or remove them from the game. I hate how just a handful of streamers have so much influence over the game.

[@LordNerfherder]

Same with ssf being completely destroyed because trade exists. Droprate ONLY balanxed for trade. Some drops are 1/10000000000000.

[@Tdiehl717]

lol group play

[@phen6075]

haha

[@dik4316]

Reaching triple digits was out of my price range anyway, but these nerfs are lame.

[@asattley]

See I think this is a bad look from GGG. They have no problem coming in and nerfing something mid league but god forbid they fix the massive loot discrepancy from T17 and T16. I remember back in the day they use to let these things ride out for the season and just tell us good job you found a way to be strong we will take it away at the end of the league so enjoy. Ever since delly they are way more loose with a mid season nerfs. Im not even using this or know about it just find it scummy they have no problem messing with something when people are using how it was intended and just found clever ways to scale it.

[@Mitsoumi21]

The amount of mistakes GGG keep making each league is insane.

[@dterror5975]

do it better then

[@sirgog]

TBH I'd rather they take risks than make more boring uniques, but revealing them pre-launch would help pick this stuff up. Both emergency nerfs this league were to things that weren't public at league start

[@cwjalexx]

Less content with uninteresting interactions would make it easier to reduce the number of exploits…but nobody wants that

[@Mitsoumi21]

@@sirgog Exactly.. End league dies anyway no reason a test server can't be up.

[@ambitiousdentist6076]

im a bit over the team bonuses. I've hit over 500+ t16 maps, 1 div from drops. I can sell grinded stuff to make up for what RNG hasn't given, but the fact that people can just team play and the game goes on super easy mode just really takes the enjoyment out of trade league for me. I wish there was something between trade league with party bonuses and SSF.

[@sirgog]

It's a lot less of an issue than it was with sextants. Most of the top economic players start out grouped then split up solo at some point as 6 times as many maps tends to be better.

[@pwkn86]

Group play helps the economy though, the more items the cheaper they tend to get. Gl getting a mage blood if they are a mirror or two.

[@carsonkurz671]

Group play is legit awful you can make a character that can do everything in the game empys group was making 4/5 divines a hour that is awful for a 6 man coordinated group with years of practice together

[@Olanar2000]

1 div in 500 maps it's not about group players if you are poor you just have no idea what juicing means

[@Grubgotkicked]

just play SSF and learn to enjoy the game, you'll never worry about trade drama again

[@ЯнК-м9д]

That's why poe community becomes more and more ratty. Who in the world will give their strategy, builds, etc if everything gonna be nerfed to the ground? There always will be overperforming and underperforming things. Let players have their fun, look at thing and nerf after. But nope, you found something op in wording aaaaand its got nerfed. Feels like beta testing.

[@sirgog]

This is GGG fixing mistakes to save the league

[@ЯнК-м9д]

@@sirgog When they gonna fix perfomance issue? When they gonna fix soul eater being too op?(I know how it works and tons of damage is not soul eater thing, accroding to poedb)? And I dont remember in patchnote anything about blue mobs with reflect ailments. But they gonna add more op or stupidly op things from first glance and than ban or punish everyone who used it. Looks like Russia simulator. И я прекрасно знаю, о чем говорю.

[@ssllsg9439]

@@ЯнК-м9д soul eater OP? you kidding me,right? they have done that. now,it caps at 45 souls and the soul decreases when not in combat.

[@ЯнК-м9д]

@@ssllsg9439 ofc I meant buff and not monster modifier.

[@ssllsg9439]

@@ЯнК-м9д yeah! and that buff also applies the same to players.45 max stack soul and reduced when not in combat. whats your point?