An example of why the US healthcare system is economically broken | Peter Attia

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There are many amazing things about the US healthcare system. But it is fundamentally broken from an economic standpoint and this example is sadly all too common.
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About:
The Peter Attia Drive is a deep-dive podcast focusing on maximizing longevity, and all that goes into that from physical to cognitive to emotional health. With over 60 million episodes downloaded, it features topics including exercise, nutritional biochemistry, cardiovascular disease, Alzheimer’s disease, cancer, mental health, and much more.
Peter Attia is the founder of Early Medical, a medical practice that applies the principles of Medicine 3.0 to patients with the goal of lengthening their lifespan and simultaneously improving their healthspan.
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[@funeats8201]

The crux of the problem is that we have a system which prioritizes corporate greed and profit before human lives. Which is why we have the most expensive healthcare in the world and some of the worst outcomes. We have made chronic illness dangerously profitable and it’s no coincidence that chronic illness is skyrocketing.

[@JZGreengo]

I think health care should be entirely socialistic with some hints or capitalism and market but preferably none considering how money makes unsafe medicine too and has allowed pharma companies to become like legalized cartels

[@williebeamish5879]

Meh, I'm old. I'll just say bye bye. It's what this government wants if you're poor, no?

[@dairyman7983]

@@williebeamish5879it’s what managed care like Kaiser wants.

[@monash4250]

That but the main problem is health insurance itself. The middle man is the biggest parasite on the healthcare system without adding value. If u paid out of pocket it would be cheaper.

[@chefntoast]

Another aspect to mix in potentially.. is our system being rooted in the study of disease, or maybe ..the foundation on which it has grown/been built . This makes preventative care the enemy of its ethos/modus operandi Now, mix in the proliferation of the Department of Defense and the global powers of the pharmaceutical industry. The pharma companies used to be more like a wine rep... going out and trying to find operators to carry their goods, they'd thrown in some free lunches or nice case discounts etc to grease the wheels. Next add in the insurance companies and their true business model. It was not as good a mix as they had first planned , in fact it failed miserably.. so pharma started recruiting pre med students, offer to cover some costs ,help with loans, ultimately leading to buying out small operations, and or being a quiet backer of peopel that wanted to start a practice, then offering to help pay for renovations at hospitals , then to whole hospital systems , which made everything more expensive, and got more drugs ,but still had a negative effect on quality of care amd had no positive effect on major things such as heart disease and diabetes ...fast forward to the "affordable care " act .. the not so subtle dramatic hostile take over of the medical system by pharma and insurance "Innovation" at all costs ,and collecting a premium with or without anyone ever receiving any care Our system is now a very odd fascist/socialist jumble ...where the fed has near total control .... the billions Pfizer has continued to pay out, is just bribery in plain sight We are also in part to blame.. fast food, corn syrup, water treatment, over medicated, whether it be psychotropic, pain, or antibiotics The idea would be, hey these corporations at the head ,make more than enough profits to basically make medications free , and would have the potential to have different tiers of access .. basic would be something similar to Canada...then the more $$ a person or family has ,the quicker and more personalized the care would be..maybe... but nothing like this has happened Quality of care is shooting down and prices are skyrocketing...and yet it feels like it's all going according to plan

[@danandlollie]

Nailed it. I've been a practicing ER doc for 20 years and am consistently amazed and disappointed that we continue to live under this system

[@mrmcbeth]

What do you think about Direct Primary Care?

[@whazzat8015]

Like ACEP is going to do anything about it!

[@barbarawarren9443]

I went to an ER for a case of AFib (fasted & forgot to take electrolytes) and will never go back for these same reasons. The ER bill was more than $10,000. Alhough I have 11 years of formal education, I make very little because I work for a non-profit org and I don't have that kind of money to dish out. Even after insurance, I owe $3,000 and will have to pay it over time, along with other bills. They wanted me to keep going to a cardiologist , one of their GPs, and a hematologist, all who gets $500 for seeing patients as little as five minutes, and wanted to put me on blood thinners. I end up with a $250 bill for each visit. They can KMA. I take natural products and if for any reason they don't work, I'll gladly cross over to the other side of Life, rather than give these ignorant, arrogant, greedy creeps another penny.

[@cbskwkdnslwhanznamdm2849]

People need to just get insurance, and we need to deregulate the industry. Half of all medical dollars in the US are spent by the Gov and the rest is highly regulated. The tiny amount of free market healthcare that exists in the US is a godsend for the entire world.

[@Orionnomad]

We don’t we just die and their ok with that . They don’t care.

[@melissasueferrin3409]

I live in Mexico and broke my ankle at the beginning of April. During the whole process I paid for one x-ray out of pocket because it was after hours at the government clinic. That private x-ray cost about 20 US dollars. That's the only money I spent on the whole process that included surgery.

[@kimberlychodur3508]

Wow that’s great, maybe I’ll move there when I retire, sounds a lot more reasonable than trying to stay here in the states.

[@Kevin_Carlson]

I'm an expat living in Ecuador, and my wife is a dual citizen. One of the main reasons why we don't move back to the States is healthcare. Emergency room visits at a private clinic run between $50 and $100. A full lab test is about $150 at a private lab. My wife just had 10 sessions of physical therapy on her shoulders for $200. Our private insurance costs $150 per person and only has a $100 deductible.

[@joebedale5666]

It is insane that a couple can scrimp and save and be financially responsible/frugal for 45 years, so that they can have a decent retirement, and not burden their children, only to be wiped -out by a single medical event! We must fix the system before we have no choice but to provide medicare for all citizens and legal residents!

[@melissasueferrin3409]

@@joebedale5666 the last sentence is revealing. It's the only humane solution.

[@philsmycrevice]

Were you happy with the outcome? All we ever hear about are the medical errors (has to be a boogyman right?)

[@brokenarrow6491]

My wife has MS and I have had several cancer's. The financial impact has been devastating. The amount we pay for insurance and our out of pocket cost are obscene.

[@benjaminbarry5589]

Hope you are okay. Hang in there.

[@bigdiscenergy]

Look into stop loss where yours and her insurance company works with the provider to pay 100% but at a lower flat rate.

[@brokenarrow6491]

Thanks for replies

[@ianstuart5660]

People are curing MS and cancers with a keto/carnivore diet! No exaggeration!

[@TheTransitmtl]

​@@ianstuart5660Don't spread misinformation. MS is a disease of the CNS and cancer is not 1 disease but at the low end about 200 different diseases that require 200 different treatments. If what you said was true then we would have statistical proof that the rate of cancer has dropped when Keto became popular. In fact, high consumption of red meat and processed meat is directly responsible for 18% of bowel cancer. Processed meat is classified as a Class 1 carcinogen by the WHO. You made an extraordinary claim yet didn't provide extraordinary proof. Your statement falls short of any logical analysis

[@rdyer8764]

One reason we have this system in the US is because our politicians have their own different system. The same is true for Social Security. If they had the same systems we have, and experienced the same problems we do, they'd have more incentive to fix things. Unfortunately, this is another reason to be healthy: to avoid having to use our broken systems.

[@carlwimmer6270]

While I agree with the need to overhaul the healthcare system in the United States, what you are saying is simply not factual. I dislike members of Congress and the United States Senate as much as the next person, but the idea that they have some kind of completely different Healthcare spend the rest of United States is simply false. The majority of the 535 members of the Senate and Congress, get their healthcare insurance through the Washington DC Exchange. Every state in the nation has a healthcare Exchange, where citizens can go and purchase healthcare insurance. The Washington DC exchange is where members of Congress purchase their healthcare insurance. There are some who purchase their healthcare insurance through their own State exchanges. If a member of Congress wants Eye Care coverage, the entire premium must be covered out-of-pocket. It is a falsity to believe that they have a completely different, golden parachute type insurance. This should actually make you even more angry and should shock you even more. Because what it goes to show is the absolute power that insurance companies, and the healthcare industry as a whole has over this nation and its leaders. Our very own elected officials know how broken the system is, work within the broken system as victims themselves, and yet they do not fix it. Why? Because of how powerful the health-care lobby is. I did forget to mention one major difference between the average citizen and members of the United States Congress. After they have served x amount of years, they are insured for life. They can continue to pay their premiums and copay and be covered for the rest of their life, whereas the rest of us go into the Medicare system

[@cherylcarter6426]

Australia is starting to go the same way. We had mostly free health care. Not anymore.

[@windrider5845]

@@carlwimmer6270, interesting. What about SS?

[@kevinstfort]

@@carlwimmer6270 that is correct.

[@serge8085]

No, it's mostly because there's a whole layer of people and industries benefit from that and that included those people who supposed to improve the system

[@ethxo6734]

When I was in college I seriously injured my back. I was afraid of the debt I’d incur because I didn’t have insurance so I didn’t go. The next week I went to China for study abroad. The pain was so bad I did end up in the hospital. My back turned out to be fractured. The X Rays, CT scans and treatments all cost me around $100. I’m grateful I waited until I was in China because I’m sure the CT scan alone would have been tens of thousands of dollars. But just think how many people like myself avoid seeking out treatment out of fear of being unable to pay. Their illnesses get worse requiring more expensive treatments. Frustrating indeed.

[@jamiejones8508]

Omg! I was on the edge of my seat there wondering how that worked out for you. I’m so glad you were ok, but how awful to be so scared of accessing necessary healthcare :-(

[@michaelfoxbrass]

Years ago I had food poisoning in London followed by an all-nighter of major gastric distress. The next morning I tried to fly back to the US, but was too weak and nearly passed out in the airport. An ambulance took me to a nearby hospital where blood work revealed significant dehydration/electrolyte imbalance. A saline drip and anti-nausea medicine was administered and I was admitted for monitoring. At no time was I asked to provide any form or guarantee of payment. At the end of my overnight stay, I was discharged without even having received a bill.

[@r8chlletters]

I avoided health care for decades and ended up needing major surgery and recovery treatment during Covid. Thank god I was laid off and on MediCal due to the pandemic as this paid for everything otherwise I might not be alive. I could not have afforded care, even just the deductible if I had been working and uninsured. I was hospitalized for almost a week and took almost a year to recover. People who are fit and well don’t realize how destructive this system is for people who become sick or injured. They not only go bankrupt but they can lose everything even their home. Thank god I was poor and unemployed it saved me because of what I qualified for.

[@TheCablebill]

You probably have an easier time paying cash in China than you would have had dealing with insurance in the United States had you been insured.

[@shanehachey9355]

Bro citing China as an example of a society and an economy to emulate 😂😂

[@AnnikaOBrien]

I contracted meningitis and was hospitalized in Los Angeles, they saved my life but the bill was $1.1M - M for Million - went through the bills and many were double and triple charging for the same procedures. Fortunately since I was young and broke the entire bill got paid for by CA taxpayers. I not only didn’t owe anything, I got physical therapy and follow-up appointments with neurologists covered, too. After telling that story to a few other folks I was told that is pretty common in California. It made me wonder if so many people are getting free healthcare, who’s actually paying for it. Now that I’m older, own a home and pay taxes, I see where all the money comes from.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Common all over the country. Medicaid is government funded Healthcare for the poor and low income. Covers something like 100 million Americans.

[@watamatafoyu]

The system is being bilked by fraudsters due to lack of government oversight, allowed by corporatist politicians bought by their top campaign donors.

[@kevinjenkins6986]

Yup, I’m on Medicaid here in PA and my prescriptions went from being $450/month when I was working to $6/month now that I’m sick and not working. And my meds aren’t expensive ones

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

@@kevinjenkins6986 you have to pay? My brother doesn't even pay anything for scripts he's got on Medicaid. This is in another State though too.

[@marcd1981]

@@chickenfishhybrid44 That's an entirely different problem with our "healthcare" system in the US. Even though this is supposed to be a US-wide, government program, the costs are still not set for everyone.

[@valarieannaliza8805]

I was in healthcare (Lab mgmt) in the 90’s when this was all ushered in. Totally illogical…it could never be explained to me. It started when the bean counters took over. Our CEO was an accountant. There was total chaos in the late 80’s thru the 90’s…nobody knew what or why. And here we are now. Total insanity.

[@Plainsburner]

Healthcare costs rose globally in the 80s, our government implemented a rebate program to attempt to alleviate the increases, costs skyrocketed afterwards.

[@johngaffigan3003]

Nothing affordable about healthcare today. I’m old enough to know when healthcare was a reasonable industry back in the 80s. May all the wallet vampires burn in Hell for trafficking in human misery!!

[@nedmoore3697]

Oh nearly the same thing happened to me. Over $5k for a fractured big toe at the emergency room. That’s basically my entire deductible. I’m refusing to pay the absurd amount - for merely wrapping my toe in an ace bandage and an X-ray. Never even put me in a room I was on a gurney in the hall. Complete insanity.

[@whazzat8015]

Gurney in the hall is the safest place to be there. $100 worth of services and they could still have made money on it.

[@Unsensitive]

You had to pay 4900 for the privilege to breath the air.

[@whazzat8015]

@@Unsensitive $5 for the air, 4,895 to remove the smell of corruption.

[@justincase3108]

@@whazzat8015I beg to differ… it sounds like the smell of corruption did not resolve! In fact, I think I can smell it from here …

[@jamesmedina2062]

unfortunately its similar to the military weapons manufacturers. So much monopoly and overcharging because they will charge as much as they can get away with. It tells you how much of a scam and dysfunction there is if doctors like my brother in law don't ever want to be a patient and have to use the system.

[@agsmom04]

Exactly!! Insurance isn't even paying anything, they are negotiating a discount. So doctors and medical centers jack up their prices to get the fee they allegedly need to collect. Pisses me off every time I am required to engage with the medical system.

[@jamesmedina2062]

yes there needs to be an arbiter of fair pricing

[@dandavis2981]

Doctors salaries are going down. It's not the doctors, nurses or the people providing the care... It's Administration.

[@loc4725]

I'm in the U.K. My cat had a *bad* immune reaction to some medication and ended up spending 2 weeks at the vets. Emergency treatment including I.V. fluids, several blood tests, food, boarding and several examinations by a doctor who spent longer in training than a hospital M.D. came to a total of ~US$2400. My cat received more medical attention over a longer period than your son and it cost *less.* That is crazy.

[@jon1913]

My son was having trouble breathing last month so we took him to the ER. His 02 numbers were low so they wanted to admit him but that hospital did not have a pediatric ward so they made us take an ambulance (we were not allowed to drive him ourselves, we asked) to another hospital nearby. Both hospitals gave us separate ER bills, the pediatric ward gave us another bill, and even though both hospitals were in network the ambulance service was not and we got a separate $2,000 bill for the 3-mile ride we were forced to take. All total our costs were around $15,000. After fighting with the insurance and hospitals, we were able to reduce it to just under $2,000 out of pocket. I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford this but the system is so GD broken that I'm considering moving to Europe.

[@rakeshcgk]

I was charged close to $25000 for spending 3-4 hrs in the ER. This was back in 2021. I had private insurance so I ended up paying my out of pocket max, which turned out to be around $3000. I can only imagine the plight of people who cannot afford this.

[@jamesmedina2062]

for ER there is no "plight". They provide some kind of acceptable care and if poor, the person after jumping through hoops, gets an adjusted bill possibly around 200 dollars but really depends on the state government. Live in a shitty state and the state government will not mind making you go broke. Live in a decent place and the bill will be fair.

[@whazzat8015]

@@jamesmedina2062 $200 my a..! Most common cause for bankruptcy. They just sell the debt and try to bleed the victim, er patient. Want a good joke? Ask any doc the cost of something. Hosp Bed, pill, syringe, anything. Hope his medical judgement is more accurate than his economic one.

[@SmedleyButler1]

None of you sue in small claims court? Pshhh

[@jordonpumpin]

The sad part is, if you had state insurance….. it would be free lol everything is free with state insurance

[@maggiekelley259]

I have to report everything worth over $400, even a birthday present. We can't have savings more than $2,000. Car ownership is tricky. We can't own houses. We can't get even get married because if we did, there's a chance we would lose our health insurance and suddenly our healthcare costs will get jacked up much more than $2000 with 7 specialist copays to just stay alive. Love these people who make tone deaf comments that leaves out a LOT of important details and helps no one.

[@susannebianchette5849]

Thank you! I was taken to the ER in California for dehydration. I was camping with my son and daughter in law. 3000 for the ambulance ride and 7000 for the ER visit. I have insurance which hardly covered anything. I received an IV and some potassium pills. I had to put this on a credit card and pay it off over time. This system is rigged against us and it is heartbreaking.

[@ThoughtMachine1]

Wow, that should've been no more than $50 total, right?

[@hq3607]

What the actual fuck, better off just not calling an ambulance then. This shit is fucking ridiculous.

[@ginaguzzo4074]

Ps in the future pickle juice for dehydration followed by with Gatorade and more fluids

[@loc4725]

Electrolyte mix (used to treat dehydration following sickness / diarrhea) costs nothing like 7k. 😳

[@watamatafoyu]

Would have been better to just have filed bankruptcy.

[@Kelly_Ben]

I got the exact same bill, $5,900, for 5 stitches in my thumb. After decent insurance, I paid $1,500 out of pocket!! After many, MANY calls to the hospital asking for an itemized bill, they admitted that the bulk of the bill was their flat rate for a "level 2 visit." $8 for pharmacy, $400 for the ER room use (all of 45 minutes), under $2k for the Dr... and THOUSANDS as a flat fee, straight up profit. Because I'd used insurance, they were unwilling to negotiate. I raised such a ruckus, I got a check back from the corporation that had bought the hospital... for $60. We ALL need to start demanding itemized bills and asking questions...

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!!

[@alfiegrace]

I am an American living in Germany. Wound up spending a total of 12 days in the hospital (ER, ICU, nephrology ward, kidney biopsy) and everything has cost less than $11,000. Imagine how expensive that would have been in the US. The US system is broken beyond belief.

[@kevinjenkins6986]

Capitalism corrupts all

[@Soguwe]

Wait, a German clinic asked _you_ to pay? Where was your insurance, why didn't they step in?

[@FosterC144]

My wife spent a month in an ER in Berlin for high risk pregnancy and didn't pay a dime for her treatment. It was only 300 euro for the food

[@scooby428]

Dr. Attia, one thing we have done is asked for a completely itemized bill, and then asked about anything we don't know what it's for, or that was never used. We've actually been successful in lowering bills that way. I completely agree with your assessment and we have experienced this ourselves, fortunately only several times. The bills were astronomical compared to yours. It's mind bending.

[@CJ-qq4gs]

Thank you, Doc. I hope this gets millions of views. Last year I was in the hospital for three days. They put me in the ICU, did every imaginable test, only to settle on myocarditis as an assumed cause of my prolonged high fever. Ultimately they just kept me under observation, and gave me fluids. The bill came about a month later… $50,000. I was shocked. I thought the only option I had was to claim bankruptcy, or spend the majority of the rest of my life under crushing debt.. I don’t make much and I have a wife with stage four cancer with her own mounting medical costs. But thankfully… mercifully, I’m a veteran and eventually I was able to get the VA to cover the costs of my stay in the hospital. It’s terrifying to suddenly be saddled with an insane amount of debt you had not planned for, and I feel the pain of all those who are not as fortunate as I to be relieved of that debt. It’s got to change.

[@frequentlycynical642]

SO glad you were able to do that. I'm sure the VA paid a fraction of the $50K.

[@ericbwertz]

@@frequentlycynical642 But the US government says that they don't pay hostage takers. I don't think that they'd lie to us.

[@CazalasMichele]

Middle and lower middle class can not afford the medical bills. If you have Medicaid then you will never be charged or responsible for any medical cost. It's a very messed up system. I prefer a 3 tier medical system like Switzerland.

[@dermlover1]

Don’t most insurances have out of pocket maxes though? How could you owe 50k with an insurance with an out of pocket max? My out of pocket max is 6k. After that, I pay nothing. So not sure how people end up in massive debt like that.. can you elaborate?

[@Zeustra]

@@dermlover1 not even close to everyone has health insurance, most don’t

[@ChrisGrande]

Great points. Cost disclosure and negotiation are key. When my son was a baby we were traveling and did his 3 month checkup on the road. I asked the office what was the cash cost of a visit. They told me $109 at the time, and it would be $330 if we used insurance. It is a total game. And the fact that politicians never discuss it tells you how corrupt (or thoughtless) they are. Disclosing costs would put a serious overall dent into costs.

[@at0m1z3r6]

The solution you suggested is literally the system in place in Canada and I gotta say having my basic needs covered is a life saver. I don’t get charged for every single visit or valid procedure and if I want I can pay for health insurance for more premium benefits but at the very least my needs are taken care of for free and I’m so thankful. I’m not saying we’re the best or that it’s perfect but I say it to say that I truly feel For Americans that can’t afford a simple check up I truly do.

[@matthewvega7171]

My daughter had a hospital stay due to dehydration from diarrhea. $10k per night for IV fluids and pain medication. And they said they couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. Every time a family member has been in the hospital it's been some variation on this theme. Yes, broken.

[@Valoric]

Just know it’s exactly the same in Australia and we have public healthcare. Always free but just as if not more useless. You wait 8 to 12 hours waiting at a hospital just to get seen. Then they do nothing and send you home. Goes on for 2 years until the problem develops into a permanent life condition that now has no cure or fix. Thanks 2.0 healthcare.

[@RealziesCuts]

Probably could’ve just drank two liquid IVs or prime hydration drinks, and been fine 🤦‍♂️ God bless you and the family

[@kirstinstrand6292]

It's a racket! I could tell my story, but I'll keep it simple. All hospitals and clinics are starving from lack of funds! Once we've all been ripped off, we THINK instead of REACT! Yet, in a true emergency, we are more than happy to pay the bill.

[@no_country_for_real_men]

Yes I can relate with you. The hospitals in Ft Worthless texas are exactly the same. It's the same cowardice corrupt cookie cutter nonsense. The healthcare system has been hijacked by medical cartels. It's not about the patient anymore. It's about maintaining stupidly overpaid high salaries for people with medical credentials.

[@no_country_for_real_men]

@@kirstinstrand6292 Not true. It's just the opposite. Corrupt hospitals are receiving more funds than ever from our corrupt government and the hospitals powers are expanding

[@lucyflores2879]

We moved from the USA to Belgium a few years ago after realizing how expensive health care would be for our family. There we paid 8K for the natural birth of my son (we had insurance). Here in Belgium, we paid 30 euros for his tonsil removal surgery + placement of ear tubes. It’s really sad how the healthcare system in the USA prioritizes money, and patients cannot do anything about it.

[@SurpriseMeJT]

I live in France now and the birth of our son cost us 0. The cost of giving birth in Houston, Texas the last time someone told me was around 13k. I will never move back to the US.

[@Lillyofthevalley222]

When I had my son here in Canada the only cost was for parking at the hospital.

[@lepoldbuttersstotch]

@@Lillyofthevalley222 Which in itself criminal as those private parking companies charge like $25 a day.

[@KssN27]

My little brother loved to belgium for grad school- he made such a good choice.

[@cbskwkdnslwhanznamdm2849]

Cost me $500 to have a baby in a great hospital. Depends on your insurance. USA healthcare also showers the world with medical innovation and has the best doctors and hospitals in the world.

[@MsNathaliabello]

This is what we always say here at home. It’s not how it’s paid, but the cost itself. Transparency of price so people can basically shop where to get care would be better. I understand in an emergency you don’t have much choice, but still the prices can and should be presented upfront instead of “just get care and be billed later”

[@WheelerRickRambles]

I’m in a hospital bed as I type this… 2nd identical episode in 8 months (same hospital) - spine infection. Besides the no-transparency billing & outrageous pricing… my frustration is with the communication & process… at 57 yrs of age & fully competent I’m NOT allowed to be in the decision of MY healthcare. Reminds of the 1991 movie called The Doctor with William Hurt. I wish the CEO were forced to be in a bed next to me for 5 days straight - ‘they’ those on the executive team, do not treat humans, they treat numbers on spreadsheets!

[@gugy68]

Similar happened to me. I went to ER for three stitches and had insurance and end up paying $2k because one of the doctors wasn’t in the “group”. They offered the service for $600 if I paid cash on the spot without using my insurance. It’s a grift to F… us. I absolutely hate this system.

[@henryhabra4094]

Grift?? Then don’t go

[@gugy68]

@@henryhabra4094sure, so let’s bleed to death and let people die because ER services can bankrupt you. Great logic mo.ron. 🤡😂

[@whazzat8015]

"Is that your best offer?" Well if you buy now I can give it to you for $500, but first I have to talk to my manager.

[@billtomson5791]

​@@henryhabra4094You gotta be kidding me. Health care in this country is an obscenity.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Hate?? Of all the stories here yours is the best one!! Honesty and negotiation on the spot! I was in Thailand and needed 4-5 stitches. The hospital there wanted around 100 dollars but the tourist cop negotiated for me down to 20. In your case fear of the dreaded insurance company drove them to accept your money which saved them time and money and possibly gave them even more money.

[@daniellozobia5386]

I paid approximately $500 for a similar treatment in Portugal at a private hospital. This was with Allianz insurance. I was still within my deductible, so the $500 covered the entire bill. What you are describing would simply be considered criminal in any other developed country, I am pretty sure.

[@squeakypistonproductions2228]

We have a lot of regulation in the us that drives up costs.

[@btudrus]

@@squeakypistonproductions2228 " We have a lot of regulation in the us that drives up costs. " We have a lot of regulations here in the EU which prevents such a scam as Peter described...

[@bellablue779]

​@@squeakypistonproductions2228 No, the US has a lot of people getting very wealthy from our healthcare business

[@ericantone8709]

​@@squeakypistonproductions2228 there is practically no regulation that protects consumers, what are you talking about?

[@georgemartyn5268]

Greatest country in the world, screw the commies woohoo

[@steviehandsome4712]

My mom had a $30K ER visit. Wasn’t even there for 24-hours. No scans, no MRI.

[@Deep-Travel]

I totally understand what you are saying. The other night I had to go to an urgent care place (texas) because my blood pressure was too low. They charged close to a $1,000 just to take my blood pressure twice (by a machine) and was told to go home. never saw a doctor.

[@MainelyLove]

That's outrageous.

[@vanglover6030]

It's refreshing to hear a physician's personal experience receiving care from our shamefully expensive American health care system. I hope that members of your profession are joining together to encourage serious consideration of some form of universal health care.

[@cege8693]

Thank you for this!!! So ridiculous. Our medical care system and insurance is so broken.

[@Joseph1NJ]

@@RickMartinKZbin Really? In 2004 while campaigning, then senator John Kerry pulled out his wallet, took out his health insurance card, and said, "I want every American to have the health insurance I have." The greatest stump speech I've ever heard. He lost the election to of all people George 'WMD' Bush, and his criminal VP Cheney. My point is we select our leaders. Don't blame the political system without first looking in the mirror. This country seems to have an endless amount of money to socialise it's wars, but not enough for the healthcare of its citizens. Then again, we elected a guy not that long ago who tried to do something about it, and the resistance he faced was so fierce, even from within his own party, that it ended up only making things worse. Fixing healthcare will require radical change. That level of change can only come from within. It can never happen with the same old rubber stamp, mindless, automaton politicians we seem to keep electing.

[@RealziesCuts]

Amen 🙏

[@spindleblood]

​@@Vlbrt1111 this, haha. 🥲

[@mikevaldez7684]

@@Vlbrt1111 He's a social elitist, & a miser...he deserves this bill...he can afford it. Stop sniveling peter! 🤣🙋🙏

[@jennajewert]

@@Vlbrt1111 right?! The system is a joke

[@wakeupwithkt]

This happened to me in NH in 2016, same circumstances, over $6000. I contacted CFO of the hospital and they greatly reduced the bill. Advocate and fight back.

[@jeanettenaumiec7784]

As the Taiwanese minister of health said in the Frontline episode titled Sick Around The World, The US doesn’t have a healthcare system they have a healthcare market. I say it’s a shell game along with big pharma and insurance companies it’s all about the profit even if the facility labels itself non-profit.

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY

[@paddy3622]

i luv rants by smart people. we need more of this.

[@funeats8201]

I hate to sound like a jerk but if he was really intelligent, he would not have taken his son anywhere near an American hospital. Hospitals nowadays do way more harm than good. They’ve killed 2 of my relatives with their negligence and we have zero legal recourse so the dangerous incompetence is going to continue because there is no incentive for it not to.

[@jblo76]

@@funeats8201 ​​⁠ I’m sorry for your losses but don’t say stupid things like “if he was really intelligent…” when he’s in the US and his son had to go to the ER where they were at the time.

[@BetaBuxDelux]

ER for dehydration? 🤔

[@quengmingmeow]

I had outpatient hernia surgery 6 years ago that was billed at $26,000…and that was BEFORE the anesthesiologist and surgeon were paid. It was 5 hours from the time I stepped into the hospital until the time i left. The anesthesiologist ended up being paid about $1300. The surgeon I don’t know. When I looked up the cost at a “Cash only” surgery center, the cost for that surgery would have been a shade under $4,000. This is out and out insanity. My insurance company paid nearly all of this…and when I discussed the outrageous price, the reaction was basically, “who cares…it isn’t money out of your pocket”. As individuals, we must all do whatever we can to be in superior health so we NEVER need to use the system. It’s an impossible goal, but it’s something we should aspire to. At the same time, we must sock away money while we are young that is dedicated solely to pay for stuff that hits us because of catastrophe, unknown environmental causes, or just our own health ignorance. The system won’t look out for you, but you can look out for you. Start today.

[@mindfullymellow2323]

If you have access to an HSA (not to be confused with FSA), open one now.

[@johnzieour]

Insurance companies are in bed with the hospitals. They depend on one to continue to drive up the costs of healthcare. The administrative costs, medical care and profits of the insurance companies are passed on to the insured in higher premiums each year. This is why the hospitals can continue to generate unreasonable fees because they know the insurance company will allow a big percentage of the fee. Going to a small private ambulatory surgery center you can expect the insurance companies to “Allow” only 1/3 of what they will pay the hospital for the same procedure. People could become self insured utilizing the small medical provider like the “good ol” days and pay lower cost insurance premiums if we didn’t have the corporate health care greed that tries to justify fees with high priced equipment, and administrative costs. Thank the Rockefeller”s for industrializing healthcare.

[@nikk5002]

This just goes to show that insurance companies are a major reason for this evil. Patients AND doctors are trapped in the system.

[@lolwtfbbq111]

The fact that we will eventually have need to hospital services is the scary part. It isn't like drinking or something. you can afford all health concerns with regard to alcohol consumption, but we all occasionally get the flu and such. It's broken because it capitalizes off of our need for these services. I once needed to get a skin infection treated without insurance. It cost me 800 dollars for them to cut and squeeze two blisters for 10 minutes. No pain killers. Lol 😂

[@HLD0205]

As a healthcare professional, I’m ashamed of how we treat people for illnesses. We only regard their symptoms if there’s a pill or procedure to fix it. And even then it’s just watching symptoms and not treating the original issue. Wellness is not a priority, nor is managing the issues while they are minimal. A pill for every ill.

[@hahtos]

What you mention as a solution already exists in many European countries and it works. Single payer system prevent you from going bankrupt while having basic coverage. Private hospitals exists and people can have extra insurance if they want more specialized care.

[@nikkiwickline6454]

Amen Peter! I went through a cancer diagnosis in 2020... I had to try and be killed by the chemo first before insurance would approve the good stuff... that's just 1 of the many insane stories I could share!! We are raising 3 kids and it's not been easy. So frustrating.

[@Dbb27]

It’s sad how insurance companies hold our treatment hostage. Hope you are doing well. ❤

[@JoshIgoe]

What is the good stuff?

[@nikkiwickline6454]

The 'good stuff' still chemo but a form that has much less side effects while going through it. It didn't need steroids every treatment ect... it's the same drug but affects the patient less during treatment. Abraxane was the name of it. Over taxol. Taxol was $100 out of pocket every treatment and Abraxane was $1,000 out of pocket every treatment for 12 treatments.

[@sarahgirard1405]

My husbands mom had major stomach issues and they assumed it was her gallbladder. Well, they wanted to do one more scan before the surgery but the healthinsuramce denied the scan. But approved the surgery. Now she was in horrific pain and so she went ahead. Turned out. Her gallbladder was fine but she had stage 4 pancreatic cancer. Unfortunately because of the surgery her healing never really happened. She died 4 awful Months later. She didn’t have a chance, after such a surgery. 😢 Insurances are commiting medical malpractice and they need to be held liable!

[@Dbb27]

@@sarahgirard1405 my sincere condolences. That’s a really awful situation your family went through. Pancreatic cancer doesn’t seem to have any survival rate which is bad enough; but then to go through all of that. So very sorry. Our system sucks. Been in it for 47 years with my son born with kidney problems.

[@sancho7863]

It’s not just healthcare. It’s college tuition and college textbooks, the defense industry, etc. everything in this country has become a racket, and corporations have so much power, they can easily extract wealth from the economy without even really trying

[@kevinmcnally8234]

I agree completely! Example, my son went to an immediate care center while on vacation in FL, dx was faliculitis. Advised to get OTC cream. Physician charge for a 5 minute visit, with no tests, was $645... The facility charge, which is what costs to essentially "walk through the door", was $1247! When I asked how they arrived at that charge, their answer was, "It is what it is."

[@Onegoodyarn]

You are absolutely right! One surgery and it costs more than your home. How do they realistically think people can afford that kind of bill? It's ridiculous to say the least.

[@cartergansky]

Truly disheartening to see the holes in our healthcare system. Props to you and other influencers who are dedicated to be the voice of reason.

[@smilingwolfhound]

Thanks for posting this as a doctor and social media figure. The more credible high profile people that start calling out this scam, the harder it will be to continue it.

[@watamatafoyu]

Maybe this guy can spearhead a class action lawsuit against the government for all the harm and money lost from people having to pay these exorbitant bills from insurance refusing to pay them or getting surprise costs or bills.

[@kevinjenkins6986]

Harder? You’re talking about wealthy politicians and corporate executives “reigning in” themselves… never gonna happen

[@watamatafoyu]

@@kevinjenkins6986 Ah, I see what you're resisting; not the politicians and elites making things harder for you, but the people like this doctor trying to make it harder for them to push you down.

[@timclayman3703]

Irate is a minimal emotional reaction to a system that is this broken. My career is in healthcare and nothing makes me any more nervous than having to use our healthcare system for my own health issues. As long as all levels of the healthcares stack, from natural resources for the supplies, manufacturing, distribution, medical providers, and insurance/billing is blatantly profit-based, with no caps, this will never end. It falls ultimately on the patient to pay these overages. Medical service is the ONLY PRODUCT YOU ARE FORCED TO PURCHASE BEFORE YOU KNOW THE COST….scam at its highest level. Thanks Peter for posting this!!!

[@philipberthiaume2314]

In Canada, the charge would be non existent. There isn't even the bureaucracy to make an invoice in the first place.

[@Lillyofthevalley222]

Your suggestion for a single use system that covers basic needs but insurance for those that need or require more is pretty close to how healthcare is run in Canada. I honestly can’t imagine the fear that I would live under always worried about my child or myself getting sick and losing everything to pay for that care. I think a lot of American’s think that Canada’s healthcare system is crap. Yes, it’s not perfect but here are some examples of how our system has helped my family members and the only cost to any of us was parking at the hospital. My step-dad had his knee replaced and ended up in ICU because he had an irregular heartbeat after surgery. Stayed in the hospital for about a week, maybe a little less. Cost nothing, no bill except for the cost of parking and the use of a t.v in his room. A nurse went to his house once a week for almost 3 months to make sure he was recovering well and doing his physio exercises. My mother in-law had to have open heart surgery to have stints placed into her heart. Again, it cost nothing. My husband had to have reconstructive surgery on his elbow due to a break in his arm that actually happened in the U.S when he was a kid that never set properly. The joint had become severely compromised overtime and needed to be rebuilt. Again, no cost to us. My father in-law was diagnosed with corticobasal degeneration. He spent 4 years at home slowly becoming a vegetable before he passed away. During that time nurses and PSW staff went to the home on a daily (for PSW’s) and weekly schedule for nurses. His palliative doctor came to the house monthly to monitor his decline and comfort levels. A hospital bed was provided for him in the home. He was rushed to the hospital numerous times due to seizures. This all cost NOTHING! If these things had happened to us in the U.S I can’t imagine that we wouldn’t be homeless! Healthcare isn’t supposed to be a privilege, it’s should be a right for every human being regardless of wealth, status, sex or race. Again, it’s not perfect here, sometimes our waits can be long, sometimes there not. In Canada we have a joke. The television show Breaking Bad could only have taken place in the U.S because everywhere else he would have been provided with cancer treatment!

[@BlakeWilliams4u]

Sad! Thanks for sharing. Sadly the system seems beyond repair.

[@ratherbfishing455]

I had been throwing up for seven days. Waited 20 hours to be admitted to the trauma center at a teaching hospital. They are overwhelmed with people with no insurance. I had previously had gone to a minor emergency two previous days and nurses stated I was fine. What happened to the doctors? Nurses do not have the education and training!

[@mommerang]

Thank you for speaking up. I can relate. I won’t share my story, but I will say that what scares me is that I never want to have to go to an ER again, even if I think I am dying. How many people feel that way and end up dying unnecessarily?

[@lisamoag6548]

My brother who is now Deceased.

[@marcd1981]

Way too many, even though one person is too many. This country (Washington, Wall Street, etc.) should be ashamed of how bad it is here. But they don't care because at their levels, they are making money no matter what they do.

[@saraquips]

Amen Peter! Which is why I will look for another country to live in in retirement. I feel like the American healthcare system is going to kill me. It appears that somehow all the power is given to the insurance companies. I hear many doctors saying that can’t even treat their own patients because the insurance company is really the ones calling the shots

[@staticvars]

Nah, it's the providers overcharging. The insurer doesn't bill you $6k for some salt water. The insurers try to verify these crazy costs ahead of time. The AMA is a cartel restricting the supply of doctors, so doctors get 3x as much here.

[@asiabrew81]

I keep running into a growing list of practices who are no longer accepting insurance for payment of services & it's because they need to have an entirely separate department & staff to chase payments. And after the Cigna scandal that basically said "we had a system that denied claims automatically as standard practice for decades" it's only made the issue worse.

[@jamesmedina2062]

No don't believe what they have told you. When there is lots of money to be made by omitting facts, trust that those facts are omitted. Every group has its fault in some way because bad actors have infiltrated the medical system in every nook and cranny since medical care is not really a choice, rather it is a necessity. Wherever there is less choice and more monopoly, first the business owners are mostest happy and the customers are taken to the cleaners.

[@jamesmedina2062]

@@asiabrew81this is a question of which came first the chicken or the egg? Did insurance companies create the problems first or did medical providers create the high costs making it necessary to tamp down the high prices? I think it was a lack of price ceiling and oversight that created the super high prices. Also lack of competition gave many providers the excuse to charge more. Insurance companies are forced to do what government refuses to do to put downward pressure on prices. In a word, it is greed by providers seeking maximum money that created the need for the systems of control of prices exerted by insurance companies. But they collectively created a monster. Because now insurance is like a gargantuan parent monster that calls all the shots and appears to be in control as there is little other controls to extract good service from anyone else. If governments were more responsible and less corrupted, they could advocate for proper care on a daily basis in other to balance the system properly, pushing for better health for all.

[@kimberlychodur3508]

@@asiabrew81 I have heard of pharmacies that are starting to do this and their prices are a lot lower because they don’t have to go through insurance companies. They can sell directly to you. Maybe this is the way to go.

[@user-yv6xw7ns3o]

From my experiences working in the ER of hospitals in the US I've heard this so many times from the patients who already know from prior experience the financial bullshit that's in store for them for showing up to get medical care. Absolutely horrendous to see. Many lives torn apart by financial devastation just because of this. It's also quite obvious that this financial burden leads people to avoid seeking medical care far longer than makes sense, living with injuries and illnesses that progress to tragic outcomes before they are willing to show up for such costly medical care.

[@sassysandie2865]

They don’t care and certain people want masses to die.

[@crvvegt]

I work at a grocery store, and a man was sleeping in his car at night. When we asked why, he said his wife had gotten sick and died, but he lost his house and everything he had worked for because of the hospital bills. How sad. So wrong

[@svenmorgenstern9506]

Sorry to hear you ran into this, Doctor. And, yeah, it sucks big time. Paying out of pocket for those very same labs through a third-party would likely be in the neighborhood of $100. IV therapy; heck, give me an order, IV kit & a bag of NS & I'd do it for free! 😂 Another slant on things you may want to consider - elder care in nursing homes. Not sure what the reimbursement rates are now, but California was paying $9470/month for nursing home residents. It sounds like a lot of moolah, but doing some basic arithmetic, at minimum wage that doesn't even pay for the CNA coverage for a resident 24/7 not to mention nurse's salaries, environmental services, dietary, activities, etc. Obviously, you get some benefit from having 15:1 ratios for caregivers, but there's a serious disconnect between need & services rendered in our current healthcare model.

[@joegaines8826]

I had a similar experience 20 years ago. My son about 4 at the time got a bug of some sort. Vomiting and diarrhea all night. He walked into the bedroom the next morning and said "Dad my mouth is dry". I looked at him and his eys were sunken. I am a semiretired cow veterinarian and he looked like a calf that was 10% dehydrated. So i hustled him off to the Dr. who agreed with me and admitted him. Over the next 24 hours they rehydrated him with 3 liters of LRS. We used to buy that in bulk for the herdsmen to use on the calf ranches. Then I got the bill. They charged my insurance company $100 per liter that I was buying (i bought the human grade by the way) for $2.50 a liter. Nice mark up if you can get it.

[@tropicthundaaa]

I had an ablation during my youth that had a total cost of $117,000. The surgery was completed within an hour and a half.

[@Anigmama]

Watching from the UK!! Shocking that Americans just put up with it!

[@BillBene67]

Really intelligent vent. Our Healthcare system is for sure very broken.

[@adventurebound2923]

I agree completely with all basic needs. When my first son was born 9 years ago my insurance company (whom I was paying 1200$ A month) wouldn't cover it, claimed it wasn't part of my benefits. My wife painstakingly went through all the real and made up charges and fought it down to about 14000 dollars. She denied pain pills in the hospital and there was later over a 200$ charge for a few ibuprofen a nurse gave her. Unbelievable. My back was broken in 9 places and I got a lawyer to deal with car insurance (one of the most popular in the us) and I couldn't believe how many times they told me neccesary things they wouldn't cover then the lawyer said they can't do that and called them, then they would call me and "oh we made a mistake, it is covered." Thank you for shedding light on this, it needs to be fixed!

[@ryanswick]

Thanks for raising this issue. I agree, it is a scam and more people need to speak out for change.

[@pennyk1943]

This is the reason why I will die early because even though I’m in my sixties, no serious health issues, eat healthy , no drugs I need a colonoscopy that I can’t afford ($8,000 deductible) and an MRI to figure out why my ankle hurts since it’s not supposedly broken. I stress everyday for these simple things because it’s suggested oh go get an MRI, go do this. Well most people I know can’t pay such crazy amounts out of pocket! I have friends who had good savings etc. who now lost all their funds because of medical bills😞 I do whatever I can to improve my health, probably healthier than someone who’s forty but some things just come up because of wear & tear! I’m more scared of living than dying when it comes to medical bills😭😱

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!

[@bustersugarannie]

Same here. My son had an extremely bad flu virus, passed out in an urgent care office, was sent to the hospital emergency by ambulance. He had labs and received 2 bags of fluids as he was very dehydrated. The bill was $8000. He had no insurance. Thank God they approved it as a charitable donation.

[@wisdomasculture3173]

How did that happen?

[@henryhabra4094]

So someone else paid your $8000 bill? Who???

[@grokker99]

@@henryhabra4094i paid it. Now pay me back.

[@farmersdotter7]

My sister lives in Texas (married a US airforce officer over 30 years ago). We’re Canadian. She works in healthcare as does her husband. They have probably the best insurance you can get. They do nothing but fight with insurance companies. Her kids have enormous bills to pay for basic care including childbirth etc., and minor incidents like your son. They second guess seeking care because of the fear of yet another outrageous bill. In that time our family here (Canada), has had open heart surgeries (valve replacements), knee and hip replacements, cancer care and the gamut of everything from the mundane to the critical. We’ve received top notch, timely care and not one bill to deal with. There are forces here attempting to destroy universal healthcare through chronically underfunding the system and hand it over to for-profit entities that would love to bilk every last dime out of suffering people and families. I hope that day never arrives. Lack of access to healthcare is a major determinant that impacts future outcomes in life for individuals. I suppose you should be grateful at this point that your wife didn’t need life saving reproductive care and have to watch until she becomes critically ill before anything will be done. I’d rather put up with some of the problems of universal care (which I have not experienced), than to live in a place where I’ll be handed a crippling bill after being denied life saving care until it’s almost too late.

[@sandyjuntunen4088]

I hear the system there & in the UK, Netherlands & Australia has changed a lot recently. Massive strikes, long waits to see a GP, or get an ambulance. It's been in the news, as well. Tons of reports, have you seen them?

[@kevinsutube1p528]

lol. Aren't they encouraging assisted suicide for chronically depressed people over there in Canada? Seems like they're running out of money

[@MedicalAutonomyProject]

That has not been my experience as an American in Canada. I had a diagnosed issue that took over half a dozen doctor visits, not to mention months, to get a referral to the only surgeon in Ontario who fixes it. Multiple doctors refused to refer me including my now ex family doctor of 5+ years. Referred in Dec, did not see him in person until May, would have been June if not for a cancellation. Same doctor refused to send me to a placenta clinic where I could get my info about my condition and gaslighted me about my symptoms. I was gatekept by the surgeon's fellow and had to argue with him about needing the surgery. Was misdiagnosed by the medical director of the biggest private ultrasound group in the GTA. He did not even comment on my ultrasound abnormality despite the fact one of his (more competent) subordinates originally diagnosed it. Now I am on a 8-12 month wait for the surgery. Don't even have the surgery date yet, suspect it will be a month wait for that. My total wait will be two or two and a half YEARS. Meanwhile my quality of life is degraded due to daily symptoms. The family doctors accepting patients here are frankly human garbage. Any family doctor accepting patients in a system with a doctor shortage has recently been fired. I have PTSD from how my prenatal care was handled and how my issue was strategically ignored, offered dangerous VBAC. I tried to get mental health help and was declined by three different outfits. The waitlist at the hospital where I delivered is 14 months. I could go on for hours and hours about Canadian health"care". The doctors here do not care because it is almost impossible to sue them. They have a tax payer funded multi billion dollar warchest to defend against medical malpractice suits (CMPA). It is a small country so everybody knows everyone else and covers each other's a$$. Ultimately we will be leaving Canada because of the healthcare and I know for a fact Canada is hemorrhaging recent immigrants from India and China because of the health"care" here. As much as Canadians love to rip on American healthcare, more Canadians leave to the US (including doctors and nurses) than vice versa.

[@Misrising]

Canadian health care is rotting from the inside out. This system is irreparably broken and governments will not do the right thing and stand up for the best interests of *ordinary* Canadians. Sadly, politicians are all corrupted.

[@alx9r]

I live in Canada. I am currently in the process of leaving for good, most urgently because accessing health care has failed for about half of my family’s needs. The half that Canada has failed to provide we had no problem obtaining for pay in Europe for relatively little cost. Paying out-of-pocket is prohibited by law here. If the government can’t figure out how to provide care, or decides you’re not worthy of it, then you get no care unless you leave. Regularly traveling overseas to access basic healthcare is not practical. Because of healthcare alone, North America is no longer a place I consider for my long-term plans.

[@JK-jl1bf]

100% agree and I’m stuck with a bill I have to pay that was paid because a discount was re-applied and now I owe $1400 for labs and X-rays, no treatment. Basically I was told that discount no longer applies but now the bill is outstanding. I explained it to the billing department that it’s like taking your family to a nice restaurant and being told on your way out that you still owe even after it was paid for. That just seems really wrong!!!

[@KarlaElaine100]

I worked in the health insurance industry for eighteen years. I am now dealing with it as a senior citizen. I spend 39% of my monthly income for medical insurance (supplemental insurance), prescription premiums, deductible and co-payments. I still have zero coverage for vision nor dental care. It’s just ridiculous!

[@emstonestreet]

As Americans, we're told that private insurance companies perform a necessary and essential function in our healthcare marketplace: cost control. But as this example illustrates, they don't really perform this function. We've become so conditioned to hearing the word "insurance" in America and equating that to actual healthcare, but when you step back and think about it, the notion of buying an insurance policy for this entire realm of your life is absurd and anachronistic and assumes that the only healthcare one needs is for unlikely surprise acute conditions. But in the US, it would seem that being healthy is the actual unlikely event.

[@BryanORourke]

A single payer system is the answer … cost savings would be massive. Private insurance companies serve no purpose but to make money as intermediaries.

[@vladimirofsvalbard9477]

@@BryanORourke You would bankrupt the healthcare apparatus bud. Nobody in the profession would stick around; you'd have a mass exodus. The answer is getting insurance and government out of healthcare. All these companies do is lobby government to destroy their competitors.

[@BryanORourke]

@@vladimirofsvalbard9477 respectfully disagree - thanks for the comment and view.

[@irynazhurauliova5653]

One of the reasons why we pay so much is because the government do not pay enough for Medicare and Medicaid. For the same services as doctors Atia son got, Medi-Cal would pay about $200 which is below the actual cost of these services.

[@PJSO]

​@@vladimirofsvalbard9477you say that no professional would stick around but in every other country Doctors earn good money and surprisingly want the profession based on helping the sick not for getting big checks. All over the comment sections "doctors" are abhorred by the price gouging. So will the profession die out? I'm not so sure.

[@CurtStyler]

If you want to know what it's like if you couldn't pay that, call the hospital and tell them you can't pay that. I had to do that with my fiance when she got surprise bills due to her insurance being terrible. This was last year and many of the bills were thrown out due to the No Surpries Act. (but handled incorrectly and still sent her to a debt collector for the cancelled bills) She has Ulcerative Colotis and after 15 years has finally found a medication that works but it's $30k every 8 weeks. Her marketplace plan wanted her to cover $8k of the $30k. At the time she was on a marketplace plan because she couldn't afford anything else and was self employed. Asking someone on a low income plan to pay $48k per year for a medication so she is not in constant pain is essentially blackmail and ridiculous. We were able to find payment assistantce to cover some of the bills but had to still pay thousands out of pocket. This year we eloped so she can be on my employer provided insurance but it's terrifying to think what would happen to her if we weren't married or she were on her own.

[@shrimpkins]

I guess there aren't too many arguments over who has to wash dishes and take out the trash 😅

[@tondriasanders6306]

My teenage son was riding his bike (he’s very tall and has a very deep voice) and was in an EXTREMELY MINOR vehicle vs ped accident and knocked off his bike. PD rolled the local FD ambulance to the scene. All the paramedics did was check his vitals and talk me out of transporting him to the ER. Three weeks later I got a $5500 bill which informed me that for nothing more than driving less than a mile from the station to our street and heading back to the station 20 minutes later, they deserved fifty five hundred dollars. It also said our insurance had been billed and they denied the claim. It’s been a year. I refused to pay the bill. I got the final bill, the angry one printed in red threatening that if we don’t pay it we’ll be in trouble. I don’t know if they sold it to collections or not. If they did, I haven’t heard from them. They’re going to have to attach my wages or something if they want the money because I will never pay that bill.

[@mikellock]

Peter I 100% agree. Also Canadian but now American as well and have worked in the US Healthcare system as a pediatric nurse. My only comment on your video is please emphasize that the nurses and doctors that cared for your child just wanted to help and see maybe 1% of what was charged. Be angry at the cost and the broken system, but please remember the people trying to help are not the enemy. I know you know this, but too many of our neighbors take it out on the wrong targets.

[@deepdude4719]

I disagree with you. I am a nurse myself and to be honest medical services are overcharged but also medical staff like nurses, doctors and techs are way overpaid. Lets bring AI in big big terms into the system and lets see what happens then.

[@dallas1love]

@@deepdude4719 I disagree with you Dude. The people providing services deserve their pay and it is a small fraction of the total health bill people receive. AI is not going to solve the systemic financial problems of healthcare.

[@tjsullivan4793]

@@deepdude4719 First off I am a nurse and tend to believe your are lying about being a nurse. Nurses are "way overpaid"......bs Most nurses in the country working full time probably make about 25-35 an hour. So I never heard one nurse say he/she are overpaid.....Same with techs etc.....get real

[@ram_bam]

Peter never said a single bad thing about the medical personnel… he literally said it was the system.

[@jamesjowdy5471]

Dr. Attia should know that by seeking care from a outpatient pediatrician rather than an ER is far better for this issue & far less expensive.

[@deborahjoel1269]

Thank you for saying so. I am having several health problems, but can’t afford co-pays for medical test this year due to other financial crises beyond my control, and I live on a fixed income as a senior. It is a shame that this is happening in the United States. I think God for the peace He gives In troubled times. I am learning a lot watching your videos and thank you for caring to educate other people.

[@virginiamoss7045]

Have you ever prayed for God to fix the system? If so, why doesn't He? Seems like something Jesus would do.

[@Penelopepitstop50]

Currently, I live in Germany and Private Health insurance is just as expensive, if not the same as the US. • It costs with insurance 1500 EURO to visit my doctor for a yearly checkup (I pay 30% of the 1500). One year I was charged twice for some of the same services and the bill was almost 2000 EUR, 1100 EUR to have my dental cleaning (my insurance only paid 200 EUR). • Some insurance providers will be less if you do not choose to have for example, dental coverage, Optometry, and certain hospital accommodations, etc.. I cannot speak much about paying for prescription medications, I just know that once my skin medication cost more than my dermatology appointment, insurance did not cover it. • German Private health insurance can cost up to 1000 EUR a month and your company will only pay up to 300 EUR a month. • Some German health coverage will reward you with 100 EUR each month if you do not go to the doctor/use the healthcare insurance. • You have to find your own medical insurance provider, have a checkup, and provide your previous insurance health certificate, before the carrier will issue coverage. They request your Work Contract to verify your salary, and if you make more than a certain amount of money a year, you cannot use the government insurance. • Once you have private insurance, you cannot use the government insurance. • They will not cover any pre-existing ailments, sometimes you pay the bill first then the insurance company will reimburse you. • If you do not choose a German insurance carrier when you initially move to Germany, they will fine you for the time that you had insurance that was not with a German insurance provider. • The medical providers put the private healthcare patients 1st (i.e. appointment)This is only my experience, I am sure that others living here may have a different experience. The hospitals are just as full here and it may take 2-3 months to get a doctor"s appointment. I have had doctor"s office not call or email back to schedule an appointment. My last experiences with US Health Insurance was not this expensive or stressful. Just another view on insurance from a developed Country. Good day all.

[@adrianagiraldo9315]

@Peter Aria NO apologies needed. Thank you for shedding light on this matter 💪🏽💜

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!!

[@RNdlynn]

That is just ridiculous. ER is more expensive, yes but that is over the top. I have been a registered nurse for 20 years and dont even get any type of discount utilizing our hospitals service. The insurance is awful and covers little to nothing. The cost of healthcare is out of control.

[@RNdlynn]

@Rick Martin true. But 5900? Maybe it is more expensive where he lives IDK. I live on the East Coast. If I took my child to urgent care or their pediatricians office and they needed IV hydration, they would refer me to the ER.

[@lordjaraxxus663]

@@RickMartinKZbin stop having this dumb take as soon as possible. When it comes to sudden health problems you cannot expect ppl to self diagnose and know which $$bracket they should be going to, other countries with proper healthcare dont expect you to do that and pay that much.

[@faza553]

MEDICAL services ≠ HEALTH CARE.

[@renatodoe6661]

​@@RickMartinKZbin Still a stupid and irrelevant remark

[@raiden031]

​@@RickMartinKZbin pediatricians always refer patients to the ER in situations like this. If they don't they can get sued. What is a parent to do when the pediatrician tells them their child needs to go to the ER? Ignore them?

[@creativesource3514]

We have issues in the UK and currently our NHS has been screwed after Covid but nobody pays anything here and certainly I'm shocked that a kid who needed some blood tests and some IV fluids could end up with a $6k.

[@ChristineMC74]

Here in Canada universal healthcare was passed in 1966. My dad was already here in 1955 and my mom came in 1964. All 5 kids born in the new healthcare, 2 brain, 2 heart surgery, ankle, knee surgery, 6 grandchildren, and healthcare tests& treatment for cancer, cost $0.00. My kids will not have to worry for any medical treatment and their kids too. Yes we pay higher in taxes , but my taxes also pays for some child right now getting heart surgery or cancer treatment. Is it worth, yes.❤

[@andreasimpson1018]

I worked for a collection call center for a few years (not proud of it. Probably one of the worst jobs I’ve ever worked) and the number one reason people couldn’t pay their bill was due to medical cost. How do you ask someone to pay a past due bill when they’re trying to keep themselves or a family member alive? That was over 10 years ago that I worked that job and all I can say is that it was a real eye opener into this terribly unbalanced economy.

[@anitablack3447]

We need more doctors to speak out on this issue like you just did. Thanks

[@fionarobertson7291]

I live in Australia. That exact experience would have cost me $0. We all contribute to our healthcare system through our taxes so not ‘free’ but there are very few financial surprises associated with healthcare. The idea that my kid getting sick could destroy my family financially is terrifying and you guys deal with that every day. I shudder to think how many people avoid getting healthcare when they really need it. Kudos for calling it out. I hope things can change for you all soon. Sending love.

[@stmawes]

Yea in Australia we are so lucky to have our health system. Not perfect but compared to the USA’s we are amazingly fortunate.

[@DavidMoore_Golden]

Case in point - my 44 y/o brother was having chest pains and decided to "wait and see" because he didn't have insurance and couldn't afford a trip to the emergency room. Unfortunately, he died the next day. If we had a better healthcare system, I'd still have my brother.

[@rublo1]

I also live in australia and not sure that’s true. Would Medicare cover all that? Bulk billing is becoming non existent and I have to pay $100 to go to the gp for a mere consultation

[@stmawes]

@@rublo1 My Doc bulk bills. For MRIs I pay about $220. Specialists they charge about $550 I get Back about $250. If medical out of pocket comes to more than $2500 you get all out of pocket expenses. Cataract surgery free but a year waiting list or pay $3000. Hip knee replacements free but long waiting list. All before is for uninsured patients. As I said Medicare in Australia not perfect but a whole lot better than US.

[@fionarobertson7291]

@@rublo1pretty sure any Australian public hospital emergency department would provide this for free but maybe I’ve just been lucky?

[@jamespeelecarey]

As a physician for >30 years allow me to wholeheartedly agree this assessment. The biggest irony is that so many of these hospital corporations are operated as not-for-profit and therefore avoid taxes.

[@overcaffeinatedengineering]

That's literally how single payer works. I just don't know why we as a country are so obsessed with ensuring "market competition" for a system where demand for services is infinite. Just finance a public healthcare system.

[@elliek5350]

I really appreciate you brought this up. You have a significant presence on social media and a reputation among other health professionals. Your voice in this matter can help get others on board. There's no perfect solution, but your suggestion is sth that could be a step forward. We can't not do anything just because it's so complex. I've been on both sides: as a provider and as a patient. Both in the US and abroad. I don't want to stay in the US largely because of the insane health care market where providers and payers dump it all on each other and on patients. And usually it's the patient who ends up being left one on one with those unjustified bills.

[@FeliciaGomezBoothe]

I love how Dr. Attia is totally aware and mentions often he is in a position to pay the bill, while simultaneously holding space for the plight of most Americans who have to make the horrifying choice between their's or their family's health and another basic human need. A truly messed up system indeed. The trajedy of economic disparity.

[@SharonDeCaro]

I was thinking the same thing. His KZbin Channel brings in $$$$$$ of revenue. He has a newsletter where I'm sure he sells products. He's rich and fortunate enough to be able to pay this bill, and go to the emergency room because his son is dehydrated.

[@ScottAnders62]

Our health care system is just one more example of corporate greed fleecing the middle and lower class. I checked in to an emergency room for a dislocated finger and was told to sit on a bench and wait. I received no treatment, was not put in a treatment room, anything. While I sat there I couldn't believe the unprofessional conversation and conduct of the staff. I approached the desk and told them how unprofessional they were and that I was leaving. Again, I received no treatment and did nothing but sit on a bench. The hospital billed me $368. 😂 When I asked for a summary of the charges, they couldn't produce anything. I agree, Peter, we should all be fighting mad about this.

[@tidavevital4744]

You’re so on point. A friend’s mom spent an hour in the hospital for some checkups. Bill came and it amounted to $13000. Another one in Maryland took his mom to the hospital where she was admitted for 3 days. I have no idea what treatments they gave her. But the bill came and it was $77000. How will people ever be debt free in America which such insanity going on???

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!!

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

You mean that's what they billed their insurances

[@albertasu.2427]

Thank you for being open, vocal and activating personal/individual responsibility for things that are not going to be solved by itself, unless more and more people push the system.

[@amospan14]

Thank you for sharing your story with us Peter. It is a broken system, the healthcare here in the US. I do like the single payer system with private insurance on top of that as a possible solution you mentioned.

[@gingerj.1202]

I would love to see a breakdown of where and to whom, exactly, the money is going. It's sure not to staff or medical personnel.

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!

[@paulaseeger4130]

Agreed 1000%. It is sick and when you go in as a consumer there is no transparency

[@liz9284]

Years ago, before Obamacare, I would go to the doctor to get my heart listened to and a basic check up, like blood pressure and whatnot. It cost 40.00 and I was done. After Obamacare, they started charging based on ICD-10 codes, so the exact same level of care-the 5 minutes I would actually be “in their care” (excluding the hour of waiting) was suddenly 180.00. Literally nothing had changed, I wasn’t getting anymore than I had before, I had insurance through my husbands work just like I always had. The only thing that changed was how they billed for those same services. I hear a lot of ppl say “this is why healthcare is so expensive”, or “that’s why the cost of healthcare has skyrocketed”, and they’ll throw out something crazy like “the unvaccinated” or whatever. The truth is that it’s the insurance companies that have increased the cost of healthcare, and that’s not even the worst of it. Because you can’t pay cash with most doctors now, YOU are not their patient anymore, the insurance companies are. YOU are not their customer, because YOU are not paying the bill. So is it any surprise that the insurance companies (and I use the term loosely, this isn’t “insurance”, this is a scheme that makes ppl feel safe financially, but we aren’t) decide, much more so than doctors do, what your level of care is going to be? The cost of services have exploded BECAUSE doctors aren’t billing patients, BECAUSE ppl overuse “insurance” to treat things like common colds when they should be paying cash, but can’t bc the cost of treating a common cold has been artificially increased to such an extent that ppl can’t afford it, and bc doctors are beholden, not to their patients or their patients health outcomes, but to the ones paying them. It’s disgusting. This is what happens when government gets involved in ANYTHING-costs skyrocket while efficiency bottoms out, and the only ones suffering for it are the ppl. Unfortunately, when ppl “have insurance”, especially subsidized insurance, they go to the doctor far more often than they should, so it’s a racket that feeds itself.

[@JWForce1059]

This is exactly right. The avenues for those who suffer from the results of high healthcare costs are not "American Healthcare system vs. universal single-payer, government-sponsored healthcare." The latter just relocates the problem, but the costs do not go away for those affected. The Affordable Care Act did anything but make healthcare more affordable. It entirely removed the incentive to economize on the care we seek, and made it more expensive as a result. You had it right with the implication that direct-to-provider payments would help remedy, if not entirely remedy, the issue, without dramatically increasing taxation to fund UHC like happens in Canada and the European countries that so many tout as examples of the ideal. The problem is certainly that policy has made the healthcare system a racket, and not as a result of anything to do with the free market.

[@liz9284]

@@JWForce1059 thank you, it’s great to get some feedback on that bc most ppl just look at me like I’m crazy, LOL. On top of all the financial stuff-and you used the perfect term for that, a racket-the surveillance that’s resulted from Obamacare is just pure totalitarianism, but that’s hard to discuss briefly in a comment. I bring it up bc I don’t think most ppl understand the depth of what they signed up for. Obamacare was the first thing that got me up and out of the house for anything political, I had never protested anything before that, and it was bc of all this we're discussing. I saw the freedoms we would lose and that, financially, it would do the opposite of what it promised, but here we are. It took 4 months for my fathers scan of his spine to be approved when he developed debilitating pain a year after his surgery, 4 months! and it turned out a screw was backing out of the hardware in his back, and no one would do anything until insurance approved it. They could've paralyzed him, I was furious. This is what happens, though, and ppl just accept it. i don't get it! thx again, I appreciate the input!

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Agreed. And Attia’s son hardly needed an ER visit, but “hey” he’s special and has top-flight insurance, no doubt. Myself? Drink water in the cool shade, maybe eat a banana. Maybe this is because I have consequential health issues, and think these two hyper-healthy extremists would do well to un-special themselves.

[@gil2065]

A very important point Peter! Thanks. Living in Belgium, these medical fees seems absolutely crazy to me. Was this a private hospital ? For this reason we are sometimes afraid to travel to the US with our kids, because not all insurances cover those kind of non sense medical fees abroad.

[@asathora1819]

I’m missing my parathyroids due to a medical mistake 18 years ago. Last year in July I visited the ER as my doc advised me my that my labs came back with extremely low calcium and I had tremors and muscle weakness. To the ER I went armed with my labs from the day before and ask my to simply have a calcium infusion ( 20 mins and maybe $40 pharmacy cost). They put me on a gurney, was there 4 hours mostly waiting on the gurney for the doc to come and approve of the procedure I was very well aware of. They pushed for heart and whatever other tests, which I refused. It was a very expensive endeavor (6+K in bill, $4800 of which was paid by insurance). I had to foot the $1,200 bill for a 20 minute infusion.I’ve been paying it still in installments a year later.

[@Gaffesjhr]

HMU TO SECURE YOUR MONEY !!!

[@JTJ1991]

If you’re self pay they will still charge you the highest amount even though the reduce it for insurance. Some may offer financial hardship wavers but many do not. This was one oh the difficulties in getting people to go to the ER as a paramedic. That’s not counting how much ambulance bills are when you transport. The system is so messed up.

[@kimbarnes-wt7wi]

Thank you for voicing a very important problem!! Coming from you, Dr Attia, I hope this begins a well-needed change! Thank you!

[@ingvarmayer8947]

Thank you for sharing. I am an international student from Ukraine. Luckily, my school in the US pays for my insurance (and it's a pretty good one). However, my insurance doesn't cover dental and won't cover the full cost of surgery in case of injury. I'm working the maximum allowed number of hours on campus (as I'm not allowed to work elsewhere by the US law) and making less than a thousand dollars per month. I'm saving up almost everything I earn but I literally don't know what I would do if there's an unexpected medical expense like the one you described. I also know many immigrants who used to fly to Ukraine (11,000 miles in total) to get dental care because it's cheaper than here.

[@SupcrFail]

Mate why are you in the US and not fighting for your country? Are you a coward?

[@trazz407]

Hospitals became institutionalized under Regan and that's when they were no longer government funded and really started to exploit the sickly for profit. We are also one of two countries in the world that advertise pharmaceutical drugs. It's the way our country's economy is allowed to operate and exploit its citizens for the sake of corporations and valuing corporations and profits over people is the reason we have some of the worst and over priced healthcare.

[@stevestone76]

I was in the hospital for 4 days with an infection on my big toe. They billed my insurance $35,000!! One of the charges was basically insurance fraud in my opinion. And then after my insurance pays almost all of what they charged, they have the audacity to come after me for $300!! You just got paid $35k for almost nothing! Just take that! $300 is a lot of money to me.

[@paullievano]

Spot on. I used to fully support a single payer system until I lived abroad and experienced one. That system also allows for private insurance for additional services. The issue that I saw was that this structure doesn't generate enough revenue to 1) promote research or 2) pay professional healthcare workers enough to stick around. I definitely think that the American healthcare system needs reform, but the unintended consequences could be pretty devastating.

[@Goldeneyes2534]

Thank you. Our family had 2 emergency in the last 5 years where we went to Urgent Care facilities. Both times they double billed us and we complained and they let the second billing go. I knew to fight this, but think of the number of people that do not know they can question the billing.

[@nomar5spaulding]

I had my big toenail get super badly ingrown, and it got really infected while I was working on a ship. I had to go to the doctor while we were in India. We were in port up river a bit from Mumbai and I went to a clinic in a town across the river from Mumbai. The clinic was nice, pretty close to what you'd find where I grew up (rural Maine). The doctor was very good. Everyone spoke great English. They were fast, kind, professional etc. They ended up cutting out the ingrown nail, giving me some bandages, and a 7 day course of 3 different antibiotics (I had got to the doctor 5 days prior in Dubai and gotten the same 3 drugs and the doctor in India said the infection was too strong so after 5 days of treatment so she really amped up the dose). My bill was itemized with such things as "bandages, clinic supplies, examination, procedure, the 3 prescriptions etc." I forget the total in rupees (it was 10 years ago) but we got a weekly news letter on the ship that included currency exchange rates for dollars to rupees and I remember the dollar amount was $36 plus a few cents. 6 months later the same thing happened again, but I was home in the States and I went to a doctor in Norfolk, Virginia. My insurance payed the bill, but I still had to pay like $300 and insurance paid out like $3500 or some shit. In India I had more medical treatment done and it was not subpar and it was $37. In the states, I paid 3x that out of pocket, and close to 100x more total billed. Absolutely stupid.

[@gotohellenwaite6371]

The US Government sold us out to the insurance companies. I had an issue with my insurance ( paperwork screw up on their part) I filled my scripts out of pocket . I paid $57 for one script ( total cost) . My insurance was situated , the next month that same prescription with insurance was $496. My co pay was $72… so having insurance and no help I was charged less?? Same pharmacy, same amount.. We are told we have to have insurance, yet we pay far more with it. Hospitals and Doctors offices, medical needs ( wheel chairs, bath chairs , etc) are charged out the rear because of insurance. Then insurance doesn’t want to pay all of it so then you’re stuck paying far more than what something is worth.

[@michaelb1716]

I'm from England and this country is going to the dogs, but as someone who has suffered ongoing weight and health problems (which your channel helps me with a lot - thanks!) I am always grateful for the National Health Service. It's about the only thing left that is Great in Britain. And even that is being wrecked by the Tory govt.

[@mustafabarzanji9280]

Yep - they will undermine public services and then... after some time when that public service becomes dysfunctional due to underfunding, they will point to it and claim that public services are inferior to private services. Classic late stage ulta-capitalist ways.

[@anne-louisegoldie]

I doubt many in the UK government actually use the NHS (except for A&E, as there's no private equivalent of that). For those in the elitist wealth bubble, the NHS is for the great unwashed, and they're not fussed if it fails 😐xx

[@avoge]

Wow David, What you and many comments describe makes me shudder. Being sick is bad enough. When the stress from existential fears comes on top of that, it's a horror show. On this subject, I'm glad to live in Europe. Single payer system is not perfect but at least the stress it creates does not weigh on the sick and poor. love your work. Greetings Alex.

[@MainelyLove]

TY for saying. I live in the US and you would not believe the backlash I get whenever I comment online about the advantages (NOT the perfection) of a single payer system. Everyone begins chanting but it has problems too and this or that will happen to you, etc. as if we are not experiencing those very disadvantages now, with our current system - which we are. People in the US seem to be unwilling to see the psychological benefit of knowing the service is there if he/she needs it, even as they loudly complain about being forced to work an unsuitable job in order to have lousy healthy insurance.