An MLM Expert On What Everyone Needs To Know About MLMs

In this episode, Chelsea sits down with Dr. Bill Keep to talk all things MLMs. Dr. Bill is a professor of marketing at The College of New Jersey who's been studying MLMs since before they were trending!
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Dr. Bill Keep faculty profile: business.tcnj.edu/faculty-pro...
dsef.org/
Resources from Bill: www.salon.com/2021/11/06/mult...
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[@cv8499]

That's the key he just said: "You are not an entrepreneur. You have no control over the product, you have no control over the pricing." These MLMs have people gassed up, thinking they're running their own businesses, and they aren't.

[@strayiggytv]

Honestly they'd be better off drop shipping. At least they could preview the product first that way. It's sad when drop shipping is the better option.

[@victoriacrossan1101]

ugh, yes. Absolutely.

[@SUNROSE7878]

Yes, that's the truth. And of course, the people sitting in these meeting, have no idea of what it is to run a business, don't know the questions to ask: like what if they don't like the inventory? What if they want to change the price? What happens when they don't buy more stock on a time, schedule and so on. Of course, the leader of the MLM, has all the right answers, they've taken care of all of that "business end of it" all they have to do is sell. That immediately makes them an employee, not an entrepreneur. I was invited to a MLM for cell phones. The leader was jumping all over the place, trying to work up that enthusiasm, (a lot like Tony Robbins.) We were sitting in a hot room, in the summer. I wanted to slap the person that invited me. At the time I was making cakes, and she phrased it as it would help my small at home business. After the first 15 minutes, I could smell the scam. Of course they had a few plants in the audience who rushed up karma with their fake excitement to buy in. Getting in was at the $100 level and $500 level. I stayed to the end because I wanted to tell her, face to face, there was no way in hell I was going to be a part, of that fast talking scam.. She brought in at the $500 level. Funny thing we didn't lose friendship over it, her family bought from her I think out of kindness, but it didn't really go much further than that. Stay clear of these shady, slippery snakes! 🤣👍

[@missmelodies52]

Also, in what legitimate business do you want MORE competition in your area?

[@cv8499]

@@missmelodies52 Seriously! If your main customers are your friends and family, how does it benefit you to bring them into the business? And if the business benefits more from bringing more people in than from selling actual products, what you're selling is your friends and family, not some leggings or vitamins.

[@whitneywujkoayala8613]

“You’re better off staying unemployed” This is the part that is so important and can be so difficult to understand in those desperate times. It can seem like any “opportunity” is better than no job, but really you just end up with your time wasted and zero profit.

[@lanaharper9798]

Or, more grimly, with massive losses, which is not uncommon

[@Iquey]

@@lanaharper9798 yup. Like you're better off just being a casual influencer and getting a little kickback from affiliate links, than taking on a bunch of debt from a shady MLM!!!

[@SUNROSE7878]

@@Iquey that is so true!

[@LindseyObrooke]

And money wasted! All these schemes have you buying inventory to resell at super high prices that no one is going to pay. Someone I know is in one and tries to sell brand less, likely shitty purses for $45!! I can go to TJ Maxx and get a brand name purse for that price. I can go to Target and get their brand of a nice bag for that price or less. Why would I buy some dinky bag from God knows where?

[@sd-ch2cq]

@@LindseyObrooke Exactely. Most people end up with a garage full of overpriced MLM products that they paid for but that nobody will ever buy from them. Which makes you worse off than if you sat on your hands and did absolutely nothing.

[@bethanymangan6648]

Love that we had a prof on the show! This guy also just has the best vibes and 10/10 sweater pick

[@HeidiHi_]

Agreed, agreed, agreed!! I was like damn wish I could attend his lectures!!!

[@crystaledwards9878]

The sweater is awesome.

[@kellyradtke4885]

Yes on all points. That sweater 🔥

[@bbh7550]

The sweater is fantastic 👌 😍

[@Spirila]

@@HeidiHi_ Yes!! I wish they would upload his lectures here on youtube.

[@KrisHomemadeBaking]

Dr. Bill is today's unintentional ASMR. He's like the Bob Ross of debunking MLMs.

[@Spirila]

could not have said it better. he has such a calm and soothing voice, and seems like a really nice man :)

[@anattaokonkwo]

😂😂😂

[@ricebeansrockroll882]

Nail on the head!

[@toomuchpassion2361]

I joined Mary Kay when I was a poor struggling college student. I was in it for about a month when I fully realized that in order to really succeed, I would have to get other struggling college students to make a financial decision that I myself already regretted. I couldn't do. I accepted my loses, left Mary Kay, and went about selling the inventory that I had left at a discount over the next year. I could never in good conscious advise someone to make a financial decision that I know was a bad one. Even as a poor college student, I knew better. You quickly realize what your success will entail for others. Anyone who chooses to keep going knows this and also knowingly choose to prey on others.

[@designchik]

My sister ended up with a garage full of Mary Kay back in the 1980s. These predators never quit. Sorry that you lost money, but you’re a good person for not involving anyone else. 😊

[@th8257]

I think that's so much of the problem. If the people selling these things ever even had a conscience to start with, they're so high on the fake friendships, fake community, love bombing and dreams of money and attention that they are willing to throw anyone under the bus to get what they want. Greed makes people stupid and nasty.

[@uhohspaghettios2391]

As hard of a topic as this is to tackle, given the numerous lives that MLMs have ruined and are currently ruining, Dr. Bill was such a lovely guest to have. I was really pleased and relieved that he was both honest about the damage MLM members can do while also being compassionate towards them as victims of a system that is designed to reel them in and never let them leave. Truly a top notch episode.

[@katem6562]

This is the hardest thing about MLMS that is the lives that are ruined for a long time! And there isn’t much you can do for the victims of these scams. The whole MLM model has so many flaws and people can’t see them or how they truly work or don’t work!! It too risky for the people who they prey on ie stay at home mums or people who are disabled or unemployed etc!!

[@DreamingCatStudio]

Well said!

[@CheeseFreaky]

PLEEAAAASE also interview Dr. Gloria Adagbon! She's a Nigerian-Canadian anthropologist who studies how MLMs prey on vulnerable communities.

[@katem6562]

It would be good for the anti MLMs movement for more people talking about this

[@WWKeep]

Can you put her in touch with me? We are looking for other academics researching in this area.

[@khazermashkes2316]

I would love to see this!

[@CheeseFreaky]

@@WWKeep Hello there!! Loved this interview!! I'm actually not in contact with her, but she's on LinkedIn and I'm sure she would love to hear from you.

[@WWKeep]

@@CheeseFreaky Found her. Thanks!

[@grantsible8827]

Dr. Keep is currently my professor at TCNJ, he's extremely knowledgeable on this subject but also just a great person.

[@flavanz_]

Oh good for you! He absolutely seems like it!

[@Spirila]

I could listen to Dr. Bill for hours, what a soothing voice and what an intelligent yet humble man. I enjoyed this episode so much and not just for the learnings but also for how inspirational Dr. Bill's personal life story is.

[@rallyrally]

The amount of Instagram reels/posts I come across of an MLM person trying to convince you why it’s not a scam or pyramid scheme 🤦🏻‍♀️ People who have legitimate jobs and businesses don’t spend any time trying to convince others that it’s legitimate. Imagine an accountant posting an Instagram post to explain why they’re actually a real professional and not a scam. Like ??? They never see the irony of this

[@SUNROSE7878]

You are speaking the absolute truth. Thank you for adding that perspective. 💯👍

[@BType13X2]

I started my own CNC woodworking business, I literally never had to advertise for it. I was doing renovations on my house, the guys doing it noticed my machine in the garage and that I was making my own cabinets. They called their boss, I now make custom kitchen cabinets at my own liesure, I set my own price and set my own workload. If your life is around the appearance of running a business and instagram posts then its all BS. I don't even post pictures on Instagram of what I've built, I only do that when its installed and if I have a request not coming from the homebuilder I work with. Its pretty great and lowstress.

[@HayleighPaige]

I’m an accountant! And you can tell it’s a real job because we 1) don’t have to defend our jobs and 2) we can COMPLAIN about our jobs 😂

[@abbysc417]

"Find something that you just can't read enough about and add value to that." As a chaotic 24 year old, that's great advice!

[@sd-ch2cq]

Not every hobby leads itself to value-creation, and i think we should be honest about that too. When people end up in minimum-wage jobs it is not because they lacked the passion to pursue their dreams. But if your dream is to set up a (web)shop than you should definitely go with a product you're passionate and knowledgeable about. Which is the opposite of the approach of most MLM companies: they tend to teach their victims that it's about the selling itself and that the product is pretty irrelevant.

[@phazon100]

Vote Republican. Republicans have better policy than the Democrats.

[@chriskromar9936]

He’s currently my professor, awesome guy. Incredibly smart and helpful to his students

[@MzShonuff123]

He seems like he’d actively check in to see what’s going on with students who might be struggling

[@chriskromar9936]

@@MzShonuff123 yeah he always emails us to make sure we have everything under control and asks if we need help on anything

[@agakryg7437]

I would love to see financial confession with few people with different kinds of disability. It can affect everyone directly or indirectly and I feel like it always have impact on ones finance.

[@Kunailover101]

That would be wonderful because there's so much people don't know about regarding people with disabilities and the financial situation they are in.

[@kdrudolph1]

Yes! As a hard of hearing person I can tell you my hearing aids are $6K. Our insurance covers $2K 😩

[@Kunailover101]

@@kdrudolph1 the cost for disability is so heartbreaking, especially when I see friends on ssi due to their disabilities. Im amazed how they deal with it.

[@calibby85]

That's a great suggestion, hope they do it!

[@iluvzurara2]

Not just a podcast ep but lots more videos on the tfd page! There’s plentyyyy of mlm videos but yes you’re right would love to see more on costs of disability from a disabled person in the US!

[@wiltedspinachcat3472]

no i laughed OUT LOUD when chelsea asked if mlm sellers know they're scamming their clients and he just goes "yes." hahahha yesss

[@Dither87]

I think it depends. People at the bottom, probably not so much. Anyone who's at the top for sure knows they are.

[@abigailshaina8378]

It's the only 'job' I ever worked where I had to pay for the privilege of selling the products, where the pay structure was somewhat deceptive and overly complicated, where I was pressured to spend $$$ going to conference twice a year at my own expense, and even worse, where I spent large amounts of unpaid time in think-tanks and training sessions. The reps are the ones who are coming up with new ideas to make the company grow and succeed, and those reps are not paid a dime for their efforts and creativity on those think tanks. But they attend with cult-like zeal.

[@roxrou852]

Ok so this kind of thing wasn’t exclusive to Lularoe. It’s crazy that they required you to pay so much money to be a part of their “company”

[@Seoulsearch616]

I loved the honesty and transparency here. Especially when he said that people recruiting for these companies know exactly what they're doing. Thank you so much for protecting consumers! 👍

[@KillsAllHumanity]

Im only a few minutes in and i can tell this is gonna be a really great episode. That said, why is no one talking about how wonderful this man's sweater is?! Truly sensational

[@nadegearmour9378]

Re: Gifting Clubs Back in the 80’s they were called “airplanes”. Folks would put in the money and the “pilot” of the airplane would get all the money as he was on top of the pyramid-shaped pyramid scheme. Then the next person in line would now move into the pilot position and so on. Of course the plane would inevitably “crash” i.e. (money stolen) and the new or latecomers would lose the money they put in. The plane ALWAYS crashed due to pure mathematic as it became almost impossible to recruit that many suckers that would agree to get on board the pyramid scheme aka airplane. Disgusting how so many folks were taken advantage of. My mother worked in a nursing home and she was the ONLY staff member that declined. 99% of them lost money.

[@elgersmam]

Whole interview was stellar, Chelsea and Dr. Bill! It's really important to call out how gendered MLMs are. As someone said in the comments, NFTs are MLMs for bros. MLMs get more flack publicly than crypto or NFTs because men tend to be more into those so that makes the perception that they are "serious" and "real."

[@BType13X2]

There is nothing more serious than filing for bankruptcy due to having $30,000 of unmoveable inventory in your garage. Or lighting all your money on fire buying useless ass Jpegs of Apes.

[@TheNerd3129037012]

I disagree, crypto has its uses. I have a lot of friends in foreign countries and I send them money via Bitcoin because banking across borders is an expensive pain in the ass. You can also buy USD Coins (staked to the US dollar) and send them abroad. I do this to send money to friends in Turkey, Armenia etc. Those countries are hard to send money to from the USA.

[@amychen2504]

"The internet is a very uncaring place, yet we go there a lot." wow.

[@Faustian_Bargain_Bin]

Love that bit where he said find that thing you can't stop reading about! Being told to "find your passion" is daunting for a lot of young folks who maybe haven't been making big choices for themselves until suddenly they're tasked with finding the thing they love, that they're good at, that's lucrative at the age of 17-18.

[@Elspm]

This was a wonderful TFC, loving that pure academia "this is my specific area of expertise" vibe.

[@cutelatina00508]

"HOW SHAMEFULL!" Yaaaas!! These lawers graduate from elite schools and then go and work for these gross companies.

[@rinoapage]

The whole time I was listening I couldn't stop thinking about how most of this relates directly to crypto and nfts. From the lack of outside market demand, the vaporware products, the cult like mentality and the primary goal being recruitment. At some point, I hope that this is recognized and challenged in the same way that MLMs have been challenged and litigated against.

[@rinoapage]

Oh gosh they even talk about it. Proof you should listen through a whole vid before commenting.

[@hollysmith7828]

NFTs are MLMs for dudes

[@rinoapage]

@@hollysmith7828 omg it is 😂

[@phazon100]

Because they aren’t. Nobody is buying nfts to get rich. There is no recruitment /promotions. If you like nfts, you buy it on the open market. The nfts are valuable because people find them valuable. The time and effort that went into bored yacht ape club was immense.

[@rinoapage]

@@phazon100 NFTs primary purpose, so far, has been speculation. The “To the moon” and “we’re all going to make it” rhetoric is obsessed with getting rich quick. Maybe someday it’ll be something different, but today that’s all I see.

[@tizianapirola7779]

This kind of in-depth content and connecting academic experts to an audience they are likely otherwise not to reach is one of the reasons why I'm proud to support TFD. I'm working to become a social scientist one day and it's really hard to see expertise acknowledged and supported outside the academic world.

[@rebeccaanne3083]

Totally! Planning financially for having a family is so important. Now that we have kids, and our friends have kids we see what a difference it makes.

[@wendell7173]

I have a childhood friend that cannot stay away from these MLM pop-ups. Over 10 years and he still thinks he is going to make it big.

[@lob1523]

Same. As much as it plagues me I stopped trying to explain to them that it’s a scam. I figure they will end up failing and maybe it’s better they learn that way.

[@Iquey]

Something about these I think preys on that hopeful dopamine rush that I think gambling-prone minds are also vulnerable to getting hooked into. It's like gambling. You bet a certain amount of money down, and then hussle your butt off to semi-scam others with you into the same scheme.

[@mollyb8136]

Big debt maybe

[@apm11221]

I believe we each have one of those. My friend only calls me when has a "new opportunity" and nothing else. He didn't even call when my sister died, I bet he'll call for the next "opportunity" though. 🙄

[@SUNROSE7878]

I too have a relative that has been in every kind of MLM imaginable. I think it's out of her blood now, but believe me it was from vacuum cleaners to tea and beyond. Most people purchased things out of sympathy not really wanting the item but trying to give her a leg up. It's so sad.

[@kylemcvey8895]

I like to believe I’m humble, primarily because I fell into an MlM back in 2014, and leaving that space began my climb back up in life.

[@mudpawkendra]

I have a new favorite person. Also, Dr. Keep's sweater is perfection.

[@leonardabrahamsen879]

for anyone that want to have some background sound that continue this conversation, the podcast "the dream" season 1 is a very well done piece about mlm that touch on the history and real life ramifications of them from the perspective of someone that grew up around people that participate in them, there is also a episode dedicated to call ins from people that have personal experience with them

[@calibby85]

I second that, that's a great podcast I've mentioned in TFD comments before too. I thought it was great too how they go into the legislative history and battle Amway had with the FTC. This topic is so fascinating.

[@jmoney9494]

Around 2007 I was 19 and approached at my job by a man who said I was a hard worker and would have a great opportunity for me. We met up a couple days later and I was really confused what he was even trying to offer me, I realized years later it was MLM

[@tokiobabe99]

"Do the people who sell for mlms actively realised they're scanning the people there selling to?" And then a commercial immediately cut in "I'm Robert Kyosaki..." And it's like, 'Robert Kyosaki could probably tell us that lol'.

[@RK-re1wm]

Loved that you brought in an academic. If the opportunity arises I'd be excited to see a female professor on the podcast :)

[@staceychoi9103]

Did you see Dr. Ramani's episode? She's a female professor. ;-)

[@katem6562]

I’m glad the Anti - MLM movement is becoming more and more effective! In the UK doesn’t have a huge problem with MLMs but still around! Also KZbin promoting the anti - MLM videos helps

[@coldzeroes]

the title isn't even edited by the time i'm playing this video but the thumbnail dragged me right in! can't wait to watch

[@PaperRaines]

Right?! I had no idea what this was about, but I'm in

[@larissat4978]

When you asked him about the options for stay at home moms I couldn't help but remember Kristen Ghodsee's book "Why women have better sex under socialism", in which she demonstrates how soviet countries from the former USSR established public social services to allow for women to enter the workforce. I think she would be a great guest to the Financial Confessions.

[@BType13X2]

I think a lot of stay at home moms don't know their options for starting their own business. I bought a CNC because I wanted to renovate my house and thought I can make my own cabinets for cheaper and then I'd still have the machine. I imported my machine from China went through that whole process. Part of that to skip paying a 3500 customs fee was to set up my own numbered company with the CRA. I had some contractors doing some work around my house that noticed I had my machine running and cutting my own cabinets / furniture out of stock. They called their boss I now sell kitchen cabinets to a home builder as a side hustle. After doing this whole process with importing and setting up my business one of my friends mentioned to me how hard it was to get fabric's and other sewing supplies for a reasonable price. I mentioned sourcing them direct from China, and walked her through the whole setup. She now imports all sorts of things and resells for a very reasonable prices and gets to keep 100% of the profit after paying taxes and import fee's. She manages her own inventory (taught her spreadsheets), pays her own business taxes (taught her how to do that on the CRA's website), and helped her with negotiating her first purchases, she only needed a little nudge. And everything I helped her with you can learn by searching for videos right here on youtube. The feeling of powerlessness, the thought that you are not smart enough to do _____ holds most people back. Like she isn't making 6 figures every year but then again she isn't working 60 hour weeks, this is her side hustle that she maybe invests 20-30 hours a month into while being a stay at home mom, and he side hustle is helping pay off the house faster, pay for family trips and vacations, and persue other passions. And the nice part is even if she fell flat on her face and failed the worst case scenario here would have been she ended up with a craft room full of fabrics, that she paid around $900 for and had to pay around 300$ to get shipped to her door. That's a hell of alot cheaper than any MLM.

[@chloewileman6697]

I think Bill is my new favorite person. This was such a great episode and as someone whose sister in law has just been sucked in to an MLM it was great to get his perspective on how to facilitate conversations about the time and money she spends on this MLM. Thanks TFD

[@kareim27]

Dr. Keep's recent conference regarding the dangers of MLMs was awesome.

[@OffbeatWorlds]

There you have it folks: a MLM expert just confirmed that NFTs are MLMs for techbros

[@acivilright]

I have been approached many times to join these MLMs, and I always am so shocked that someone I know who seems so reasonable and intelligent doesn't see this is not a legit thing to pursue.

[@ladywymark6624]

I wish I could go back to school and take a class like Dr. Bill’s!

[@courtneynappi6796]

I could watch 10 more hours of this conversation, he is great! 💜

[@LadyAhro]

Ahh my favourite topic! Dunking on MLMs and their predatory nature!

[@elenaadler4633]

What a fantastic conversation. Engaging, relevant, extremely current. Congratulations, Chelsea!!!

[@chronosdigiti5706]

thankyou for adding a dimension of sophistication and civilized discussion about social issues on youtube. its difficult to find meaningful videos on youtube nowadays which is worth our attention

[@Ingrid.braun-ricks]

Loved this guest! Awesome to have people from academia, such thoughtful anwsers!

[@silmuffin86]

As a military spouse I've seen SO MANY fellow military spouses going down that rabbit hole :( It's hard to maintain a career with young children, even harder when moving so much around the country or even the world. Part of me feels bad for them, I know they just want to do something else than staying home with kids, but I've got so many messages from people I haven't spoken to in years, it gets so annoying!

[@elgersmam]

I get a lot of Facebook invites and messages from stay-at-home moms to like their MLM pages or join their MLM virtual events. It mostly just makes me sad

[@SincerelyMonie]

Patiently waited for this episode! Soooo excited!

[@rangeprincesa]

THANK YOU FOR THIS VIDEO! I'm vehemently anti-mlm myself and I learned so much from Dr. Bill to take into my own conversations when educating/warning others.

[@luzcaceress8986]

Are you feminist? Is the same, dividing Is the goal. You are the flag bearer. To whom it suits that there are no richer?Who will be the real puppets? some do it for free others charge like the doctor. Think a little. What are you? Which one are you? free or earn money

[@markmahowald7866]

My wife was wonderful like Dr. Bill's wife. she encouraged me to quit my job and go to a local tech bootcamp. We had been saving that chunk of money for a new home, but going to that bootcamp turned out to be one of the best financial decisions we ever made because it doubled my income, and got me into a job i actually enjoyed for the first time in my life. came in super handy when the pandemic hit and she got laid off.

[@Justkelseyagain]

I have been waiting for this!! Thank you so much!

[@prebuiltdownline]

What your saying is intelligent, articulate, logical, and I very much value your information. Thanks for that.

[@trishblack2418]

This was excellent. Thank you Chelsea.

[@pro100olga]

It is great to listen to a scientist. So accurate and thoughtful answers! Thank you!

[@CosmykTheDolfyn]

The extent of these MLMs is such a larger problem than just in the US as well. I personally have known 20+ that have lost everything down here in Ecuador thanks to Herbalife and every small town down here has shops of people trying to clear their old product. Down here Herbalife is even being marketed as COVID cures. It's sickening beyond words.

[@lankyjuggler]

Absolutely amazing interview. What a treasure you found!

[@thomasdegroat6039]

I am obsessed with his sweater

[@georgehowelliii5666]

Great video! You hit it out of the ballpark with this one!

[@georgiapeeples7242]

I am obsessed with Dr Bill!!!

[@sabs939]

Brilliant episode! Thank you so much! ❤️

[@MorganRose55]

Such a great episode! Thank you!

[@peach_ringz_4evz]

Loved this. I never get sick of this topic.

[@laurenberlin4502]

Not having Intuit as the sponsor weirdly feels like the end of an era

[@jaymillymills]

Love that even though you are contentious about the issue, you are relatively fair.

[@ivanaandric5703]

Love you for speaking the TRUTH! Keep up the great work!!!

[@NerdMomsLife]

I admit that I have done Avon and Pampered Chef in a previous life. But I literally did zero recruiting. I did Avon to buy my college books and stocked my kitchen with Pampaered Chef. But I never tried to recruit. If I couldn't make money selling I wouldn't do it. But I also quit Pampered Chef because it wasn't a good financial return on my time (once I got pass earning all the free cookware;). But I also was around a social group that would splash out for very expensive Pampered Chef products and never wanted to sell. My hubby and I also waited 5 years to have kids. We waited until we could live fully on his salary so I could stay home. But I understand the privileged position I was (and am still) in.

[@davidgreene2555]

Recruiting is not a dirty word. Building a team of sellers, insurance agents, realtors, athletes, doctor's, lawyers, nurses, military personnel, etc....takes place every single day. Avon & PC are two excellent well run companies btw.

[@tammystockley-loughlin7680]

Being able to raise your children shouldn't be a privilege...but good for you, momma!! I stayed home with my daughter for the first almost 5 years...we didn't have debt, so I was able to do this. Positive vibes from New Hampshire, remember to be kind to each other and yourself

[@amandabeachum188]

Same here. I did Avon and Usborne books. I was a terrible salesperson because I'm not pushy and I don't lie. I was the person who said, "Hey, I'm selling this is you want to buy any." I never had any illusions that I was going to get rich. I was poor and trying to make any money. Any. That's who they are preying on. Women and moms who need more money but can't work outside the house to get it.

[@deniseblanchard2156]

Great video; great guest! Thanks!

[@skatergirl8019]

GREAT video!! I actually got a check recently from the law suit against AdvoCare. I think all the influencers and media around the anti-MLM movement is so important to help the vulnerable not fall prey to their schemes

[@fortheloveofLDS]

Every episode of this season has been absolutely captivating. Keep it up TFD! 🙌

[@d14551]

Would it be possible for TFD to post when the FEC is open for comments from the public regarding MLM's? I would very much want to write a letter. Thanks.

[@miraearles3372]

I loved this one so much more than I thought I would! 👌

[@pjj.5649]

I live in NYC, where there are plenty of shops to make purchases of all kinds. If you know where to shop, you can get top-of-the-line merchandise or even a knock-off is better than MLM stuff. There is no comparison and the overprice you would pay for MLM merchandise you could add a few more dollars and get much better variety, size, colors, etc. if you buy MLM merchandise from a family member or friend, it is a sympathy purchase because maybe you don't want their investment to be a total waste. You would rather give them the money straight up, to avoid them coming back with more merchandise in the future. But for sure, buying overpriced MLM merchandise/junk is like stabbing yourself with a knife and wondering why you are bleeding. BEWARE! BEWARE! BEWARE! CON GAME!!!!

[@zuglymonster]

Connections. That's what makes the difference. Amway is politically connected

[@PaperRaines]

It's weird for me to live in a city with the Amway Center. A literal monument to exploitation and desperation.... holding a concert

[@limbiclove9487]

This is great I am going to show it to a lot of people.

[@stephaniemiersch]

Excellent interview!

[@JessentialLife]

This was really good! Thanks for this!!!

[@infinitelyimprobably]

Really fantastic video, thank you!

[@Iquey]

I wonder if job training education and mental healthcare (and REAL single payer healthcare so ppl wouldn't be looking to Essential Oils to cure cancer) were more accessible in America, as well as state funded childcare, that MLMs would just shrivel up and die. People join them because they need a quick way to make money, enjoy the psychological bonds of the MLM teams, which is valuable for isolated people who move a lot, (such as military moms) and many MLMers also need to stay at home to watch young children, if one parent is working, but due to costs of living, still need two incomes.

[@pettit-dean611]

I live in a place where healthcare is paid for with taxes, education is affordable, most people have 1 year paid maternity leave and 8$/day daycare is the norm and I don't know anyone in an MLM /never been approached to join one on my social media. I think it has a big impact for sure!

[@silmuffin86]

childcare is the main key imo, I've met too many SAHM that can't afford childcare and can't have a real job, they'd make less than what they'd pay for childcare, and that is what makes them fall right into an MLM. in continental Europe, where childcare is way more affordable, MLMs are not as common

[@RayneRain77]

@@pettit-dean611 what country do you live in?

[@meagankut236]

Haven’t even started it yet but I thumbsed up bc YES!!!!!!

[@Em-by9ez]

I loved the mention of how nfts are predatory!

[@weston.weston]

Great conversation, Chelsea. I ❤ TFD!

[@NikkiVelazquez]

I enjoyed this a lot! Great guest.

[@bg3236]

Part two please! 👏🏻👏🏻

[@junipantoja758]

My parents were in Amway for years and i can't describe it other than some kind of cult

[@miriamripplinger6265]

Excellent episode!

[@blammela]

And the only reason MLMs continue ue is bcz most folks who are swindled by the marketing, and get caught up in these things are too embarrassed to come out publicly and talk about their experience. It’s humiliating to admit you got into these and lost a bunch of money.

[@SUNROSE7878]

That is so true, people are like beyond embarrassed, they feel stupid, duped, wondering how the hell did they get caught up in that. It's just a giant mind game.

[@GiggleBlizzard]

Great episode! The guy was great!

[@litua13]

This was a great episode!!

[@scoobydont]

Loved this episode!

[@designchik]

Great episode! I got suckered into what I think was a gifting club when I was in my early 20s in the 1980s. I was persuaded to put all the savings I had at the time, which was $1,500, and lost all of it. Tough lesson to learn, but I got off lightly in hindsight.

[@King_Jab]

So many of the ads I see on KZbin on finance based channels sound like MLMs.

[@zsazsamorte]

The last question and answer had me like…whoa. deep, bro. 😅

[@themoneylibrarian]

If you find this interesting, I LOVED "The Dream" podcast all about MLMs and recommend it to everyone! Thanks, TFD for the great vid!!!

[@calibby85]

100%! Lived their season on "wellness" too. I was hoping they'd do one on Astrology too 😆

[@themoneylibrarian]

@@calibby85 Oh! I haven't listened to that yet, gonna download now - thanks!

[@GreatGospel97]

This was sooooo good

[@markrichardson3566]

Great work, we need lots of help in this scam 🙂

[@atkcsc]

"changing class" it seems like has two major factors: 1) being very intelligent (Street smart and book smart combined) and a ton of luck. Chelsea, I'd love if you spoke about this topic in more detail.

[@Hasna256]

Great episode! Hope many people in Europe get more aware of the danger of MLMs, since I'm seeing women of color here who get into this scam and it's very sad to see that.

[@brucheweinberger6863]

But why? Isn't the social safety net enough to carry them over?

[@Hasna256]

@@brucheweinberger6863 Not always. The money from for instance unemployment insurance isn't enough for all people here, although of course that's way better than losing all your money in an MLM. There's also racism playing a role in making it harder for us to find work, and add to that the cultural glorification of a stay at home mom, you get people thinking 'I can't find a job anyway, and it's best to stay home with the kids, but I do want my own income ...' and you get an easy playground for MLMs.

[@brucheweinberger6863]

Interesting. It's funny that the stay at home aspect is glorified and here in the US, it is looked down. My only expierience(sp?) with safety nets is my husband's family in Canada. It seems quite genorous to me.

[@KauaiDee]

This was super interesting! Also, I really like his sweater, think they make it in a women's cut?

[@CleverNameTBD]

Everybody and their grandmother selling courses now too. MLM or not, the amount of scammers just in the everyday world is maddening

[@alexsnezh]

In grade 9 social studies we were studying the economic systems of socialism and capitalism. I swear to you, in the textbook we used Mary Kay was presented as a capitalist success story. I still rememeber this.

[@JudithLawrence718]

For Mary Kay Ash, it was a rags to riches story. For others, not so much.

[@alexsnezh]

@@JudithLawrence718 Also, let's be honest, reselling cosmetics… groundbreaking…

[@JudithLawrence718]

@@alexsnezh I agree but remember the other cosmetics company(Revlon) was started by men . Part of the appeal was using and selling a product that was made for women by a woman. Also the camaraderie and the possibility of making a living doing/using something you love. For some women it was a girls night out to go to a Mary Kay party and buy a moisturizer or a new shade of lipstick.

[@Galworld761]

Mary Kay was not always MLM. It used to be door to door. When products fell in popularity recruiting became the revenue stream