An Uncommon Modifier for Film Lighting

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A common photography tool that is relatively uncommon in the film/video world - the beauty dish. This modifier creates quite a specific look that is very fitting for certain scenarios, like the one demonstrated in the video.
These are tools designed with photography flashes and strobes in mind, not high powered, constant lights that kick off a lot of heat - I would think twice before shooting one of these with, for example, a 1200 watt unit at full power - you may melt something, you may be fine, it's not something I've tried! But I've used them with lower powered lights quite often and they've been solid.
I'm one of Samyang's UK brand ambassadors - which means I shoot most of my work with the Samyang VDSLR MK2 Cine lens kit. In this video we used:
Samyang 14mm t/3.1 VDSLR MK2
Samyang 24mm t/1.5 VDSLR MK2
Samyang 50mm t/1.5 VDSLR MK2
Camera:
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 6K Pro
Lights used in the video:
Nanlite Forza 720B
Video Contents:
0:00 - This Light is Too Hard! (For a Close Up)
0:42 - Ways to Diffuse a Close Up
3:32 - How Can We Soften Further? (And Still Look Like Sunlight)
4:13 - A Modifier for Photography
5:24 - An Uncommon Solution and Why It Works
6:57 - Support My Channel/Get Extended Videos

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

These are tools designed with photography flashes and strobes in mind, not high powered, constant lights that kick off a lot of heat - I would think twice before shooting one of these with, for example, a 1200 watt unit at full power - you may melt something, you may be fine, it's not something I've tried! But I've used them with lower powered lights quite often and they've been solid. Color Grading - www.dehancer.com - get 10% off Dehancer using ROBELLIS at checkout www.robelliscinematography.com/downloads - download the full 46 minute Lighting with Colour mini course ad-free, with all 5 individual parts for just £15 - including an exclusive Part 3! www.patreon.com/robelliscinematography - support me on Patreon for extended, ad-free KZbin videos and informal breakdowns - including the entire Lighting with Colour mini course available to stream now!

[@TasteofTaboo]

only the totally crappy super small ones. Beauty Dishes are the most wrong used photography tools. To setup a beauty dish you need a really bright modelling light, normally this means: 300W/500W/650W modelling light in the flash head. The point is; you need to see the shadow of the center disc and position in in the center of the face otherwise you won't get the BD-Look. The problem is: this is a really tight space and your motive get static. something you are not able to notice when your modelling light is not bright enough to overpower the ambient. 98% of photographers I have seen are not really doing this and just throwing this modifier in. the difference of a right vs wrong placed BD is hughe. So using a 720W COB with a BD should be totally fine. Also these COBs are often way better cooled than flash heads. Btw. better BD are already designed with the use on HMI in mind. Also the Centerdisc is the part where you might be careful. there is a reason why a 59dollar BD is different build than a 300 or 900 dollar BD from a known european brand. Their centerdisc are mostly different. Some of them even have modifiers / different center disc which you can modify for the look.

[@photographiezautrement]

@@TasteofTaboo I use several beauty dishes for fashion and beauty photography. Profoto white called « Softlight » has plain centerdisc (but translucent centerdisc exists) On my Mola Setti and Mantti, centerdiscs are semi-plain (with small holes in it, so a small amount of direct light can pass, to preserve micro-contrast). But I can add (or substitute) with translucent centerdisc, or white transluscent centerdisc called « opaline » I can add external diffusers to soften.

[@TasteofTaboo]

@@photographiezautrement this is what I mean. With the cheapo 49 dollar bowens compatible ones it is a whole different story

[@theballisticboy]

This is a great example of why its so important to seek inspiration from a wide range of art other than just films. Thanks for this reminder.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Absolutely! Even if this video is specifically about a light modifier, the same rules apply to any creative practise in any number of ways, inspiration can come from anything, for anything!

[@GarethDix]

I'm actually from the other side... a photographer looking to steal lighting ideas from cinema... so it's great to see this happens the other way around too

[@CBCFilms]

I actually find myself really liking that direct hard light for the close ups, feel like it gives that gritty "No Country for Old Men" kind of feel to it. That being said, I think the behind-the-scenes from that film show a lot of those shots using various kinds of large diffusers too. Really liked this episode! It's an intriguing use of a simpler light modifier.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yeah I like it too! Has a bit of a grittier look to it and goes nicely with the general scenario. But any of the options in the video could work depending on the context! Thank you, glad you enjoyed it! :)

[@sighlus]

@@RobEllisCinematographer just had this conversation with my wife. I prefer left and she prefers right... my brother broke the tie and liked the left but we grew up in a grittier situation so I wonder if it's a subliminal stylistic/life choice. haha, great content man.

[@aaronmichael8902]

Dude, Rob - you’re seriously such an inspiration and your content is what I look to most when it comes to lighting. Thank you man. I was testing out Dehancer last week and think I might pick it up. Will be sure to use your code!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thanks Aaron! Always amazing to hear my videos are inspiring and useful, I really appreciate it! Ah thank you, I appreciate that also, Dehancer is a great plug in!

[@Visethelegend]

I remember a loong time ago in one of your videos you would talk about this dish in more detail in one of your videos. I’m so glad it is finally here and I learned something that never crossed my mind

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yes I did!! Happy you remembered that, in fact that was nearly 2 years ago! Took my time with that one didn't I haha! Glad it was helpful after all this time :D

[@ClaudioDesideriFilms]

What a magnificent job you've done Rob, this is so informative and the final outcome is a true pleasure for the eyes. Thanks a lot!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much Claudio, super happy you enjoyed/got something out of the video! I really appreciate it! :)

[@simvid8107]

It’s great seeing people dabble outside of the video world for inspiration. I’d be keen to see where this light former might actually tackle specific looks/problems that other formers don’t offer. I remember a while back when working with stills photographers more that they loved the beauty dish and it was almost impossible to create that same look on continuous lights. The first one I found was that Joker Bug made a Bowens Mount Adapter. That being said the Beauty Dish got properly hot. Didn’t melt anything but certainly not great having something that hot close to talent. Might have to revisit this former and see how it could be used

[@allyoucangamebuffet]

I love this channel. Your info is great. I've been in production for 15 years and still learning. Bravo.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Super happy to hear that! :) Thank you so much!

[@BanderaFilmsAndMusic]

Your work blows my mind away every single time, brother. Always waiting for the next video. Thanks a lot!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much Karl, happy to hear it!! I appreciate it! :)

[@unsaved_]

Tbh, the close up with the big source from outside just looks the most convincing to me. If you're bothered by the skin details I'd suggest a lower-resolution master or just plain diffusion filters, those work wonders as well. Though I believe that skin imperfections certainly add character which I find desirable to a certain extent.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

I like it too! Convincing and realistic lighting is great, but it's also about creating the feeling you want in the image - if this was part of a sequence with no lighting comparisons, the beauty dish look most likely wouldn't be noticed, as there would be no behind the scenes analysis of the light and therefore just a feeling to the image!

[@asherhuskinson6815]

Wow! Absolutely loved the results. Gonna give this a try soon.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thanks Asher! Happy to hear it!

[@BeardArmwrestler]

This is the best video with lighting knowlage on youtube. Love your films!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! :)

[@timothy_leovel]

Wow the hard light without any diffusers looks so good! Looks like shot on film some tarantino vibes.

[@noso-1111]

Rob, I use a silver Godox, smaller 16 inch aluminum beauty dish with a Forza 60. My look is best found moved up-close for a wonderful light falloff. Back farther, it tends towards the ordinary. Your flagging it was a nice touch. I much enjoy your artistry. --Randal

[@YuvalAloni]

Great video! Always wondered why a Beauty Dish isn't really utilized in video work. This crisp yet soft look is beautiful

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

I suppose because in a close up, it's easier and quicker to throw up a diffusion frame for the light that's already there in the wide - but experimenting with other techniques is always valid and there's definitely a particular look you get from the beauty dish you might not get otherwise, even if it is subtle! Thanks Yuval!

[@camaradesfilms2083]

@@RobEllisCinematographer This. Much quicker to throw a diffusion in front of the light than switching to another light setup. Quicker is, unfortunately, almost always better.

[@camaradesfilms2083]

@@RobEllisCinematographer but loved the dish though.

[@RicanStudio]

A beauty dish creates a doughnut shape... hot around the edges where the light doesn't bounce... only good when you are in the shadow of the middle reflector.

[@neurojitsu]

Genuis level insight, thanks! I bought some natural silk ages ago, intending to play with it as diffusion... this has inspired me to dig it out and start using it!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy to hear it's inspired you - thank you so much!

[@JWP452]

It looks great for the wide and the closeup.

[@_GhostGarden_]

As always, genius Rob. Great work, thank you.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you Aaron! :)

[@mozzfather]

You sir, are the most valuable source of knowledge when it comes to lighting on KZbin. Thank you so much for your hard work! Bravo! #1

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Wow thank you so much Josef! Super happy you're finding my videos so useful, I really appreciate it!! :)

[@mozzfather]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Greetings from Germany!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@mozzfather greetings from the UK! :)

[@marcvanhoorn4965]

Great Video! I just discovered a similar effect on a commercial video for a makeup brand. Instead of a beauty dish I used a Light Dome without the outer diffusion. So the inner diffusion distributes the light inside the dome, the silver sides of the Dome make the source a lot bigger, give it the specularity and punch and the grid makes it more directional. It actually looks kinda like a beauty dish, too. However I am not sure if my method distributes the light 100% evenly. I'll definitely try a beauty dish though. That seems a lot easier. Even though I don't know if it's available at my usual rental houses.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yeah that is a similar way to do it, although like you mentioned, the beauty dish distributes the light slightly differently as the inner plate blocks light from the centre and reflects back around the dish, rather than diffusing it and adding light to the very centre, so there will be a little difference in how the light looks on the face - how much of a difference it realistically makes I don't know haha maybe a comparison is in order! :D saying that - a light dome is much easier to transport!

[@acattoir]

Thanks for the great video. I don't see many instructors that have in depth knowledge of the characteristics of light that you've shown here.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you for watching! :)

[@harpenfluit]

Apart from the great content, I really love your narration and voice. Very pleasant to listen to.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! Hearing your own voice a million times when editing can get quite grating haha, so I'm happy to hear it! :)

[@AllThingsFilm1]

Another invaluable technique to bring to filmmaking. Thank you!!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Appreciate it, thank you for your kind words and I hope you found the video useful! :)

[@charlieweston2292]

I never subscribe unnecessarily but after this I think this has been my most important subscription lately!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

I appreciate it Charlie - thank you so much! :)

[@scottievee7467]

Thank you. I always pull something from your work. Great look.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy to hear it Scottie! Thank you!

[@jacobwarren1985]

Great work, sir. Thank you. I'll be looking to utilize the "dish" in future shoots🙏🏻

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thanks Jacob, happy to hear it! :)

[@filipet.4551]

Your videos are cinematic magic

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much!! :)

[@PaperWolfe]

This was a super good lighting tip! Thanks for the video

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy you found it useful! :) thank you for watching!!

[@pavel0900]

Great tutorial! Thank you for sharing 👍🏻

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you for watching! :)

[@VictorLaforteza]

Love using beauty dishes on my beauty/fashion shoots but this was really a good take on "cinematic" filmmaking! Gonna have to experiment on it for my other stuff

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Absolutely, happy the video inspired you to do so! :)

[@smalltalk.productions9977]

thanks for the effort and the sharing. thumbs up.

[@QerjijNabil]

solid work thank you for everything you do to the community

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much!

[@filmmassa]

Been curious about this combination for a while, since the bowens mount gained popularity with aputure lights like 8 years ago. Appreciate the very well documented lighting experiment !!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yeah the bowens mount is great because there's so many existing photographic modifiers that have been available for years! Thanks Perrry! :)

[@filmmassa]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I used be lucky enough to have hung out at the old mole Richardson lot in Hollywood before they tore down the 6 city blocks of historic Hollywood, Larry Parker used to let me hang out and help set up lights for students and ASC cinematographers. The beauty dish reminds me of the reflectors on the large 10k lights that Larry’s grandfather made for the US navy to signal ships, which doubled as a bad ass light for production. The reflectors allowed near parallel beans so that shadows of say repetitive columns would all fall in parallel and not spread (or radiate outward in different directions/angles, like a typical point source. I’m curious how defined and if shadows are more parallel compared to a naked LED cob point source.

[@nicholasboule5134]

love it. getting a few sizes or order now.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Amazing, hope you find them useful! :)

[@ThePxj]

Love this!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much, happy to hear it! :)

[@isaakkimmel6951]

Thank you so much for what you do for the cinematography community! Free film school. :)

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy to hear you're getting so much out of my videos Isaak, thank you! :)

[@TravisTravels]

Love your work, keep ‘em coming.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much Travis! I will do :)

[@MarcosElMalo2]

Very nice effect you got. I feel you should talk about your use of flags with the beauty dish to create negative fill and bring back the shadow contrast. Thanks for posting this.

[@SJOONMEDIA]

Thank you so much for making great content!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Glad you're enjoying my videos - I appreciate it, thank you!! :)

[@andreathode3782]

I have such a white beauty dish for photography. And yes, I use it also for video!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

It can be a wonderful tool for both!

[@AlexGriggAnimation]

Fascinating vid! As a non live action person I'm curious, how do you proof your results on set as you're setting up your lighting? A lot of these subtle differences only really seem to shine through after the grade.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thanks Alex, glad you enjoyed it! Usually you have a preview LUT on your camera or monitor to give you a rough estimation of colours/contrast!

[@FellowFilmmaker]

Was really interesting to see a more photography based modifier being used in video :) Makes me consider how I might use this at some point in the future

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Absolutely, they're great tools! :)

[@meirchaimo6960]

Excellent!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you! Hope you found it useful in some way! :)

[@Supercon57]

It's interesting to see someone using a beauty dish I started in photography and am familiar with Bowens mount modifiers, so when I started using aputure lights my mind went off on all the different modifiers available to it I was considering picking up a beauty dish to then shoot into diffusion as a pseudo smaller footprint booklight

[@theowlfromduolingo7982]

The beauty dish is like an interesting combination of a softbox and a PAR light

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

It definitely has it's own character!

[@Om9rr]

Another banger video rob🙌

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Appreciate it, thank you! :) hope you found it useful in some way!

[@Om9rr]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I sure did ‼️

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@Om9rr glad to hear it! :D

[@DanielEarl]

I've been curious how beauty dishes would work in a situation like this, but it hasn't really been talked about. Thanks and cheers, mate.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yeah I noticed a lack of demonstration of the beauty dish in the video world - I"m sure it's there, but it's pretty hard to find, so I thought I'd chime in! Thanks Daniel!

[@Brookssmedia]

Love your content man. You are very skilled with lighting. Do you have a video on showing how to use camera white balance to dial in a look 🤔

[@SBEdits]

Really interesting technique, thanks!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Hope it was helpful in some way! :)

[@sheldonnorton9035]

Totally useful.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy to hear it, thanks Sheldon! :)

[@Carteblanchefx]

It's great! Thanks a lot!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy you enjoyed it - thank you so much!

[@Humcrush]

Great tip/trick!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much!

[@jimjimgl3]

They all look good. The differences between the modifiers would be hard for the average person to notice. Today I'm shooting stills (food) one one of the sets I have a c-stand with a Profoto beauty dish (white) with Tuflux over the surface. Like you said, punchy source but still soft enough for nice falloff. Another set is just very soft diffused daylight with a Profoto B10x aimed into the window to just clean up the daylight. And the third set is a bare bulb inside a white v-flat for a hard light that has a big spread.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Hard to notice for someone who isn't looking for sure, but often it's the subtle changes which can change the mood of the shot/scene on a level that should be unnoticeable, if that makes sense! Sounds like a fun and varied set up!

[@migionie]

Okay that's funny, I was thinking about the beaut dish a lot lately and wondered why nobody was using it heavily in video. Kind of a surprise that 1 hour ago a video was posted. Thank you for sharing!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Haha I timed that well then! Hope the video was helpful in some way! :)

[@migionie]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Absolutely, thanks again! I'm even considering to use it for product photography since I'm experimenting a lot right now.

[@okokayay]

I'm not into cinematography (yet), but I still gladly watched this video, so interesting

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Well I'm glad you found it interesting regardless, that's always good to hear! :)

[@Michaelajacksonfilms]

Thank you

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you Michael!!

[@gavincoombs469]

Thanks for challenging my thinking as I would ordinarily reach for a single or double net from the flag kit in that scenario because I don’t want to risk using diffusion fabric which might change the light in the CU scene. Interesting work though of the issue.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy you got something out of the video Gavin! :)

[@Drewdoode]

The expert strikes again!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

I'm just a man who likes lighting things! Haha I appreciate it though! :)

[@Drewdoode]

@@RobEllisCinematographer keep at it man! Lighting is the coolest part of cinematography.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@Drewdoode absolutely! Thank you!! :)

[@zacharias21]

I’d love to see a video of what inspires you and why you light the way you do!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

My immediate thoughts to those questions were "natural light but also film" and "I have no idea" haha! It might be something good to dig into!

[@zacharias21]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Dude yes I think that would be a great idea for a video! I think that a lot people show how to light for film but a lot people dont really discover their personal taste in lighting until they ask themselves why they light the way they do. Also another question would be who inspires you

[@fbfvFabianBashota]

Not only was this a very well educating video, it was so pleasing to watch as well! I love your calm voice and especially the music selection. What tracks did you use in the video?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate it! :) these were tracks from Audiosocket, I can't say exactly which they are without the edit in front of me unfortunately!

[@dylanyanes]

gawd damn thats so cool, imagine a GIANT ONE

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Haha would have that classic UFO look! 🤣

[@imlarry425]

There used to be a long throw stage instrument called a beam projector that uses the same reflector setup.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Didn't know this, I'm only really semi-familiar with PARs or Source Fours - that's awesome to know!

[@iviujtaba]

Logged into my film account to comment. Your channel is very inspiring I absolutely love how thoroughly you explain lighting in these videos with such finesse and expertise. The quality is just so crisp and i love that you don't talk about camera gear, good lighting gets good result on most cameras, doesnt matter what camera you use 🙏

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! I think cameras can definitely play a big role in how the image looks, but like you say, if the lighting is congruent with the image the camera can be become less relevant! Massively appreciate the kind words, thank you! :)

[@theindependentcinema]

Finally found answer to my query

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Happy to have answered it!

[@gssg2010]

Inexpensive and makes things easier for the actor by not blinding them.

[@ralphgeronilla]

Beauty Dishes are primarily used for close ups hence not found so much in videos. The hotspot or dead spot in the middle varies and the fall off is much more noticeable in wider shots.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Absolutely, that's why it's great for a fine-tuned close up!

[@Whaever_1981]

Beauty dish is an interesting solution. Obviously we have a lot of gels that are purposefully made for these kind of scenarios :)

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

We do, purposely made to soften things up without changing direction of the light too much, etc! But the beauty dish definitely has some characteristics of it's own and I think it's a great option to have and experiment with!

[@Whaever_1981]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Ok, Just so you and the audience are aware that are very specific rosco and lee diffusion gels (very little of it) specifically designed for such situations :)

[@fullfunk]

Film with arria even that harsh light gonna look like gold on it

[@Francisfphoto_]

Amazing! I’m a photographer and new “filmmaker” and I’m loving using constant Nanlite Forza 150 for stills/video! Thanks for this video! Wanted to ask you, I did use on my last shoot, a small 33” silver bounce umbrella and got some amazing results too! Do you think that umbrella could be more like the beauty dish? If so, it’s a great light/travel kit! And cheap too hahaha

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

You'll get the specularity with a silver umbrella for sure, but some of the characteristics will be inherent to the way the light is distributed from the design of the dish - I think you'll get a bit more "punch" from the dish whilst retaining the softness! But it's all about how you personally want the image to look and whether you need that control!

[@Francisfphoto_]

@@RobEllisCinematographer thanks man!!! Never used a beauty dish before, but now I’m gonna try it!

[@artofduke]

As always, Rob, great job. Where did you get the light modifier beauty dish? And what size?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you!! It's the 70cm (27.5") Pixapro from Essential Photo in the UK - www.essentialphoto.co.uk/products/pixapro-70cm-27-5-silver-interior-beauty-dish-with-honeycomb-grid

[@artofduke]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Awesome thank you!!

[@heroaomedia]

Wow, this is amazing. What size of beauty dish did you use?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! This is a 70cm or 27.5" dish :)

[@nikilragav]

This makes me wonder if it makes sense to use beauty dishes as a default diffuser over softboxes. Thanks to the parabolic shape, it should be similar to a gridded softbox, but because you're not shining it through a sheet, it doesn't lose power to internal scattering, right? It seems relatively compact but I guess it depends on what parabolic equation they used for the shape

[@RobbieSkaff]

Good video : )

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Glad you enjoyed it - thanks Robbie! :)

[@spooky_leftist]

Zero Deakins mention in the runtime but I think this video is what finally makes Deakins cinematography click for me. You don't need filtration, vintage lenses, or film to diffuse an actors skin or any number of subjects in the frame, you can diffuse with the lighting itself. And it grants you much more control since you're dealing in 3d space not ratios, fixed qualities, and post processes. I wonder how much this compliments the set detail without sacrificing glamour for the actors?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Deakins is definitely an inspiration and I've mentioned him/demonstrated a technique he uses sometimes in previous videos!!

[@Bo_Hazem]

If you can have more and more videos the world would be a better place.🙏

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

You are too kind!! Also, if all goes to plan, I might be putting a big project together... which means there might be a lot of videos this year :)

[@Bo_Hazem]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I've learned a lot from your great videos, and trying to compensate that by previously buying your course that will be handy as a reference and should be buying Dehancer when I get the budget for it with your code. Your style is so distinct from all others, an exotic channel!

[@graysonlehmandp]

You're amazing

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Appreciate it Grayson, hope you found the video helpful in some way!

[@JADURCA]

Love your work! I believe this is close to the same effect created by a Lightbridge diffusion #3 cine reflector. I got one and use it a lot. Did you ever try one?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! You probably get a similar level of specularity for sure! Never used CRLS but I'd like to try them at some point - I'm actually experimenting with a sort of DIY version of them at the moment, for an upcoming video!

[@JADURCA]

@@RobEllisCinematographer already subscribed to see the DIY video! These cine reflectors are a kind of mystery how the surface is made, it must be a very interesting process. They use aluminum as the main material. The surface, maybe a nano technology one?

[@sopot9]

I have been searching for example of usage of beauty dish in video production for a while, but nothing was available. I think this is a truly uncommon modifier for filmmakers, although it can be pretty useful. The only downside is that the dish is pretty directional, and you want your subject to stay perpendicular to its ring to have best results

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Yeah it definitely has a very specific use case, namely locked off close ups, but definitely something to experiment with if you get the chance!

[@sondp]

Do you close the window to block the light coming from outside when using another light for the close up?

[@paperrockpicturestest]

Great video 👌🏼 some of my modifiers came with a small metal dish that I never use, but after watching your video, could that small dish be used in a modifier to do the same thing? Bounce the light back into the modifier?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! What modifiers they are? I suppose it depends as the dish is shaped specifically to produce this character of light, but there are beauty dish versions that are built with more conventional soft-box materials also!

[@paperrockpicturestest]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I love the Phottix modifiers. I’ve always put the little metal dish in a drawer because I never used them. Just pulled out the Phottix Raja 105 to see if I could put the metal dish in so it looked like the beauty guy have in your video. I think it could work :) Guess I should start a channel and respond to your video so you can what it looks like 😂

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@paperrockpicturestest I have seen that Phottix do a folding beauty dish so perhaps that's the one! I'll have to look into it! Probably a bit easier to transport than an actual massive dish after all haha!

[@MylonasFilms]

I would love a link as to where to buy one. Even if it’s not in my country it helps us understand what it is & it’ll point us to local sellers too as google does. Also what size was yours?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Here's the dish I used in the video - www.essentialphoto.co.uk/products/pixapro-70cm-27-5-silver-interior-beauty-dish-with-honeycomb-grid - generally you can get them with or without grid, silver or white, and you can also get collapsible versions which are more like little softboxes. Although how this changes the quality of light is probably up for debate!

[@robertredfern8001]

Very nice. What size beauty dish was used on this one?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thanks Robert! This was a 70cm or 27.5" from Essential Photo in the UK! :)

[@DANAMIONLINE]

Thanks for sharing the side-by-side examples - they're visually helpful. As you pointed out, the hard-lit closeup didn't match. However, I enjoyed the stark contrast of the original hot. It reminded me of hard light shots crafted by Vittorio Storaro> Nonetheless, the beauty dish does provide a balance of soft and complex lighting.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Glad you found it helpful - thank you! Absolutely - the hard light, the drink, the frown (which is always there haha), could easily convey the appropriate feeling for the shot and I thought it looked great too - but like you said, softening it up a little is also a great way to balance it a little more toward something a little less menacing/angry, whilst retaining some of those hard characteristics. Having the option to do either is definitely great when you need to decide on how you want the shot to feel!

[@DANAMIONLINE]

@@RobEllisCinematographer How did you the idea arise to use that beauty dish and make a YT video with it?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@DANAMIONLINE I originally bought one for photography about 7 years ago and at some point I just started experimenting with the look for video and how that look would fit into representing light in more realistic scenarios! I mentioned it in a video from like 2 years back it's just taken me this long to shoot haha!

[@Lance_Lao]

Great work, but one suggestion. Please put small titles to help differentiating which diffusion is used in which image. I often can't remember or tell since the differences are subtle.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Good point! I won't be able to now unless it's under subtitles, but will keep in mind for similar layouts in future!

[@photographiezautrement]

Little confusion between HARDNESS of the light (given by the apparent size of the source) and the CONTRAST (given by the distance between source and subject) The closer the source, the softer the light. The closer the source, the higher the contrast. But: the smaller the source, the harder it delivers light, this being modulated by the distance as indicated above. This is why in a studio, we use sources of different sizes. As a reminder: hard light = very clear transition from shadow to light. Soft light = very gradual transition from shadow to light, with an intermediate zone called "penumbra". Hardness therefore concerns ONLY transitions. Contrast = difference between highlights and shadows. This is how you can have a light that is both very soft AND very contrasting. At the beginning of the video the light is NOT hard. It is relatively soft because there is a gradual transition from shadow to light, with an intermediate zone called « penumbra. But it is relatively contrasted too If it was hard, the transition between light and shadow would be very clear

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Good info - and hardness certainly concerns transitions from light to shadow - but I would still say the light at the beginning is hard! A penumbra can increase in width/become more visible depending on the distance between the object and shadow being cast. The closer the object is to the area it's casting the shadow on, the more sudden the shadow transition - the further the object is from the area it's casting the shadow on, the more gradual the transition. As if the object is further away from the area it's casting shadow on, more ambient light will also be hitting that area and contributing to the graduation, making more of a penumbra. So hard light can cast shadows with sudden transitions and gradual ones, with the accompanying ambient light - you can see this on a sunny day in many situations! The shadows being cast by my chin, collar etc, have this lack of/less penumbra, and the shadow on my face is being created by the curtain - so combined with the distance from the curtain which is blocking the light, and the ambient light created in the room (the curtain is semi-transparent after all) the light doesn't immediately transition from light to shadow. If the curtains were made of a black out material and the ambient was totally underexposed, to the point that there was no other light except the "sun" light, I'm sure that shadow transition would also be more sudden! But if we're representing reality, the sun is always accompanied by ambient light, whether that's sky or bounce, so it's still hard light. I don't think we're really disagreeing here, there's just a lot of variables haha! Apologies for the essay!

[@castielvargastv7931]

Very cool video but actually i liked the natural light just as much

[@BigBlobProductions]

I love thR you're using a beauty dish for cinematography, but I kinda liked the hard light a bit better. I think people are too afraid of hard light nowadays

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Absolutely, everyone has a preference, it's up to you to use the tools which suit your vision - whether that's hard or soft light!

[@studio4producoes834]

I love you brother

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

❤️ I hope you found the video useful in some way!!

[@studio4producoes834]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I'm really engaged by cinema. Buying a Black magic poket Original now and with it I started my small jobs and your videos have been something more aggressive for me than college. I have a lot of trouble with the lights. Gratitude brother for finding you!!!!!

[@udeydeepkhokhar1298]

How to light a candlelight dinner scene ? Please give us video on it.

[@brentfisher902]

If in analog....use stand developing...if in digital...use the levels transform (just set the output levels to not use the full RGB range).

[@WhiteVaille]

And here I was expecting you to just use a simple reflector to frame right, bouncing back some ambient light to the cheek and shoulder, lol. Certainly would have been a lot cheaper.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

That would have created a different look to the wide and they wouldn't have matched - but if we wanted some more fill in the shadows a reflector is always an excellent cheap option for sure!

[@uumbadop]

Beauty dish is great! But it lacks control of a soft box with grid for example, that’s why it’s left behind In video/film I think Btw you can imitate a beauty dish with something like Aputure light dome mini II by using just the inside reflector and no outside diffusion. Then you’ll get a silver covered beauty dish-like thing

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

They come with grids, I just didn't demonstrate it in the video as I wanted more light spread! - www.essentialphoto.co.uk/collections/beauty-dishes/?tw_source=google&tw_adid=397132659738&tw_campaign=6624444857&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-OSbndPn_AIVd4BQBh0raA1gEAAYASAAEgL-dfD_BwE Yeah I have a few Godox mini octaboxes that have the same thing! Whether something that's constructed in this way vs a solid dish changes the light characteristics somewhat I can't say, as the general shape and reflective material is a bit different. I just went with the classic dish as I know exactly what it's used for and what kind of light is puts out. Doing some comparisons at some point might be on the cards!

[@uumbadop]

@@RobEllisCinematographer that’s nice! Haven’t seen grids for beauty dishes yet. And regarding soft boxes without diffusion - it’s more about experimentation than a full blown out substitute, it’s just a way to get somewhat similar results when in a pinch

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@uumbadop absolutely! But now I must know the differences haha!

[@uumbadop]

@@RobEllisCinematographer looking forward to your comparison then!

[@zachschermerhorn8090]

I actually prefer the look of the hard light in the close-up for a more gritty look.

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

It definitely fits the mood!

[@Wanderingforever976]

What dish did you use ?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

www.essentialphoto.co.uk/products/pixapro-70cm-27-5-silver-interior-beauty-dish-with-honeycomb-grid :)

[@HalloFilmz]

luv u

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

❤️

[@seelyw.4818]

Great video! So sad that beauty dishes are that expensive

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Thank you so much! :) they're way cheaper than a lot of softboxes are, at least where I am!

[@seelyw.4818]

@@RobEllisCinematographer is there a special size you would recommend as an "Allrounder"? I found some used ones pretty cheap!

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@seelyw.4818 I really like the size of the one I used in this video (70cm/27.5") - but in a super tight space you might want to go for a size below that!

[@Tore_Lund]

Isn't it a question of aperture in the closeup the face otherwise getting overexposed (and the background too dark)? a secondary light on the background or a white reflector behind the actor to catch the "sunlight" that reaches the back wall and throw it to the wall right of the actor should do the same?

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean here!

[@Tore_Lund]

@@RobEllisCinematographer I'm just thinking that the reason the light on the face looks harder in the closeup, is because it fills more of the frame, so exposure needs to be reduced, so the background becomes darker too. I suggested some more light on the background, but you are right, you might want to retain the highlights on the face and have the background darker in the closeup for effect without adding light to the background, which possible could look out of place, and then softening the "sun" instead is the better option.

[@giancarlodambrosio230]

I like more the hard light

[@NullStaticVoid]

guess I worked inbroadcast too much. But I really want to put a key light up behind that subject.

[@ViozoDesigns]

please make a in depth color grading tutorial

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

Honestly my color workflow is super messy, maybe when I can organise it better I'll be able to make something in depth haha but I generally keep it simple and never push the grade too far. Dehancer helps!

[@ViozoDesigns]

@@RobEllisCinematographer Fair enough I just always see these beautiful images and you always mention it’s color graded in dehancer but didn’t see any tutorials

[@RobEllisCinematographer]

@@ViozoDesigns I made a video on Dehancer back along which explains a huge part of what I'm doing when I use it - kzbin.info/www/bejne/h3yUZqOZo8Z-pJI - hope that helps!