ANALYSIS - NEW LEDGE MECHANICS IN ULTIMATE!

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BACK TO THE LAB AGAIN!
#SuperSmashBros #SmashUltimate #Ultimate

[@GimR]

Try #2. Thanks KZbin! In this video go over the new ledge mechanics in Ultimate. What are your thoughts?

[@f0fuchsia742]

👌 do you know about the new double shieldind tech where you hold two shield buttons and be unable to dodge or jump so you can maneuver your shield faster?

[@jaydenthiriot9946]

Keep 'em coming GimR! Everything you put out just feels huge and absolutely worth watching.

[@adrianordp]

Your G&W is clean in ultimate and your parries are on point. Congratulations.

[@twotamatos]

GimR's Lab air dodging is a nice way to get back to the ledge when someone’s charging a smash attack trying to punish you I like it cuz I can still get a lot of kills via edge guarding with my main Jr yet I seem to not get punished as much one thing I keep doing by mistake is killing myself via air dodging and trying to recover gotta just practice and be carful about button mashing so you don’t end up doing that in tournament lol but even if u donk up with that stuff peeps like jr and game and watch barley suffer from low recoveries like ever unless gimped on there way up but it’s rare before the magnet hands just clip on I’ve also noticed yeah u don’t immediately jump off the stage if someone grabs onto it too making ledge trumping just way harder to do and like you mentioned that makes it so much less annoying I’m loving all the mechanics in these vids your probs one of the only competitive people I take seriously cuz they aren’t just like a grown man child playing this game and you use a character not many people use whose like the OG clown of smash honestly I cannot wait to see how many 9s your gonna get with his buffed down smash and just can’t wait to see how your gonna put in work with game and watch cuz he’s such a cool character especially with all his animation change ups just adds so much to the guy

[@Cassie_Lyn]

you can go into training and check the invincibility btw

[@amveru]

Now I can get 4 more frames of sleep tonight.

[@TapDat52K]

4 Frames of Justice from the Nintendo/Bandai Police. Letting the good smashers sleep

[@ClintonChelak]

The white border on your icon makes you look like an ice Climber

[@MisterFiasco]

I thought they shaved framed off of Rest.

[@ManilaBird]

ThatOneGuy you get *8* more frames of sleep if you roll into bed!

[@failboat]

I KNEW I was getting away with more ledge rolls than normal. Really appreciate the info drop as always GimR

[@TheSast]

I broke this COMMENTLESS HEAVEN

[@combro7096]

Two framing also does not give back your double jump anymore

[@kalebwrenchey]

Sick. I always thought that made 2 framing a lot less useful unless you 2-framed with a spike or they missed a tech and you stage spiked.

[@GameMasterWLC]

*Ness smiles demonically*

[@salj.5459]

GameMaster WLC Oh no....

[@icecreambone]

i feel like theres basically no reason not to attempt a two-frame now since they gave more people spikes and aerials have less landing lag lol

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

rip little mac

[@santathemadman4246]

Marth: “just, you know, whatever” 😂

[@AnthanKrufix]

This feeling of a new game coming out and people finding all the crazy new shit is what I lived for.

[@Cyrath89]

Lived? What happened?

[@Neoxon619]

*sees thumbnail* Long live the king.

[@piranhaplant3264]

What do you mean? I'm not the one in the thumbnail...

[@ufo1928]

@@piranhaplant3264 yeah...that wasn't funny

[@nitez2730]

If nobody got this, it's a reference to lion king

[@ufo1928]

@@piranhaplant3264 your mother loved it

[@ufo1928]

@@piranhaplant3264 Ironic...coming from someone who made a dick joke

[@ThatLazyTurtle]

Had to come back to find out about those 4 frames

[@TapDat52K]

4 Frames of Justice!!!

[@hououinkyouma5539]

What is a lab without a lab coat my friend

[@SF3284]

4 frame video upload

[@SF3284]

Oh btw, if you get 2 framed in Ultimate, you dont recover your double jump! (according to Larry Lurr)

[@billybobjoe4847]

New ledge attack is completely invincible on startup. In smash 4 wario's chomp beats it since it lingers to catch the vulnerability frame, but now it can't

[@Jaguar2kicks]

Billy Bob Joe this dude said wario. Lol becauss I know it’s true and sad now. Can’t chomp them anymore

[@tannerbrodt8419]

I’ve never watched your videos before and just watched to the end. Your outro is SO GOOD! Can’t wait to check out more of your stuff, GimR

[@GimR]

Glad you like it dude!

[@SaltyBoiJohns]

I can't help but dance to that outro throwback... good taste my man and great video. Keep it up!

[@Hikariinu124]

good shit gimr, i had a chance to talk to you at this past SSC, i look foreward to at least trying to go to xanadu a little during smash ultimate's lifetime. great guy to talk to about smash, keep up the great work and i hope to see you soon :D

[@GimR]

thanks man! Hope to see yo uthere!

[@ToeManJon11]

Great analysis as always. Can't wait for the other vids, and love the new outro.

[@TurboJehtt]

Great video. One tiny gripe. At 5:40 you call ledge rolling an "option select" but an option select isn't the same thing as choosing an option. An option select is a specific scenario where a single input gives you 2 different outcomes depending on what happens in the game.

[@NinjarioPicmin]

so like with peachs down b or g&ws neutral b, or what would an example for a option select be?

[@Zadamanim]

I guess it could be more accurately be described as covering every option or flowcharting. Option select isnt completely wrong since it's sometimes interpreted metaphorically as "picking both rock and paper in RPS." The difference is very minor.

[@65rytg]

Ninjario Picmin its kind of like marths side b

[@TFWPLSSUB]

​@@NinjarioPicmin no, like in smash 4, you can press air dodge and up b at the same time. if you got attacked, you'll tech. if you didn't, then you'll up b for jiggly, you can footstool and press down b and down air at the same time, if the footstool landed, you'll down b instead of down air

[@DerPafferfish]

@@NinjarioPicmin Same button inputs, different outcome depending on the situation. The most basic example is crouch teching a throw in Street Fighter IV. If you crouch and press light punch plus light kick you'll get a light kick. Except for when the opponent tries to throw you, in which case the game will force you into a standing position. Since you're now in a standing position, you don't get a crouch kick but instead will tech the throw, since light kick plus light punch while standing is the throw input. So you're not really selecting any option. You select both and the game gives you the best option for the situation.

[@TapDat52K]

Oh woah, Going balls deep with videos. GimR is going to be busy! Im not the man to lab since I work +50 hours and dont drive as hard into smash. But I told all my Smash discords! Keep it up man!

[@MrDLM-mg4rn]

Informative video, thank you GimR. I also wanted to say I enjoyed watching Launch, really great tourney.

[@--Fresh]

Thanks for the data GimR! I had no idea you could DI ledge trumping in this game :O

[@UchiGang]

Thanks for this. Very well put together🙏🏼

[@L0Ve1yHDPixel]

Clear en straight to the point great vid man

[@captainquickscope8414]

I like the effects in the video, simple and nice to look at

[@GimR]

shout outs to Not eSports!

[@TheLuigidan]

Thank you for not leaving us with a cliffhanger again

[@bakerhickock]

Fr

[@BAGELMENSK]

ha

[@1000aaronaaronaaron]

Nice pun

[@aTom-aka-de_baby]

Hey bro, sick moves by the way & love the Earthbound soundtrack on this video. Really made me happy ^_^ Anyway, ever since Sm4sh I've wanted to understand the technical side of the game but i couldn't always find breakdowns on the mechanics and my friends who were using cancels and other technical tricks couldn't explain what they were doing. I find these videos extremely helpful my bro, I like to know exactly why things happen and their reasons and you clearly demonstrate both of these in this video. You're doing God's work, keep it up if you enjoy it! :) In sm4sh I would main pacman, g&w and ness but in ultimate they feel kinda odd; about to scourge your channel for any and all g&w ultimate videos. I don't usually comment on popular people's videos, but you really made my day, so I'm sorry for the long jumbled comment. Wowee as I was finishing this comment "back to the lab again" came on- your music selection is exquisite my guy! Haha, I remember blasting that back in the day, was that from a dexter commercial? Wtf how do I remember the lyrics but not the source? Anyway, have a good day brother.

[@GimR]

thanks man! That's the point of my channel. I really want people to be able to easily understand mechanics quickly to easily get better at the game

[@ninjapumpkin0127]

The ledge trap option still works for some characters, if you just stand outside of range of get up attack, you can react to roll, drop and jump, and get up attack, and you force a defensive option on get up and get up jump, which if you punish can kill or at the least reset the scenario.

[@spindaditto]

thank you gimr!! i liked the video a lot, and good choice of music : )

[@ShinOpaque]

i forgot how complicated smash was, after not playing since Brawl lol

[@sycoraz]

ShinOpaque brawl wasn’t even a complicated smash tho

[@ShinOpaque]

+sycoraz uh huh. keep memeing with brawl. but if you went I to that game with no kind of knowledge of advance play, you wouldn't win.

[@sycoraz]

ShinOpaque ok You won’t catch me winning any time soon, I’d rather just go play melee or try out ultimate instead

[@ShinOpaque]

Suuure, I bet you traveled all over to get past casual level on melee. Pretty sure youre just gonna stick to melee and wifi match it like 99% of the other player base lol. @@sycoraz

[@sycoraz]

ShinOpaque whatever you wanna tell yourself I enjoy salt

[@thisistherun4015]

Hope to see some info from you on Game & Watch soon! Thanks for making this content.

[@Blu_Slime]

Great info. I'm new to Smash in general and videos like these are invaluable.

[@biddergick2890]

Well I was gonna ask the up b option before grabbing the ledge thanks for the info GIMR i appreciate it. I’ll be working with this on my Ridley.

[@aidenkofoed2352]

Excited for the new vidsss!

[@Mad_Ice_King]

Ah sweet! A video which is not just a recording of a stream session!

[@lagalil]

Ledge options seem almost op but I agree that ledge trapping is repetitive and annoying to deal with. I would still tone up edgeguarding a bit though, theres nothing wrong with being in a bad position offstage.

[@twotamatos]

lagalil I edge guard all the time with Jr it’s how I get a lot of my kills I am so happy I don’t have to fight against anyone who plays like me cuz not many people main Jr and no one I’ve played is good at him like me

[@twotamatos]

Lain I feel like ultimate has good enough recoveries or sucidal enough recoveries CAUGH CAUGH Gannon dedede k rool incenaroar where they can kill you with a move they use or recover with but like I was saying everyone has a good enough recovery to where u shouldn’t be afraid to go out and try to ledge guard or spike yet the recoveries are just slightly worse then Wii U you should defs try to punish someone off stage cuz it’s hype as hell as well

[@lagalil]

Lain You can't say that seriously. What part about ultimates edgeguards makes them worse than a game with characters with trash recoveries, no magnet hands, no ledge trumping a and no wall techs, were there are characters that almost get killed 100% of the time from a backthrow. I will correct your comment for you: If you are having trouble getting edgeguarded in ultimate you need to practice your recoveries.

[@lagalil]

GrimTomb Yeah I like how edgeguarding is now viable, I was just saying that I wanted it to be even a bigger part of the game since I think in its current state it doesnt mitigate some characters lack of kill power. That can change with the meta however, we will know.

[@72823m]

If dabuz said it then it’s always gospel

[@titotitoburg6298]

I only watch you because of the animation at the end. Also: midrange Samus super missle, full hop to charge shot from 50-92% is a true-combo. I was first to discover its now called "the tito"

[@PochotheEntity]

Love the outro. Brings me back

[@Zephhyre]

really informative as usual!

[@strides777]

Thank you GimR. Looking forward to more videos.

[@NoshuHyena]

When you said it was easier to get back into the stage I got scared, but these are very minor changes that shift the dynamics slightly, and I'm relieved :)

[@outsideboxer1448]

Thanks for feeding us that spicy knowledge

[@lesternomo6578]

Another thing I've noticed is that you can spike on the first few frames of ledge roll (I don't know how big the window is) and the character kinda gets sucked off stage.

[@ConstructiveCriticHD]

That was very clear good job.

[@shadoninja]

Hey Gimz! Make sure to pay respects to those songs you are using! For anyone curious, that was "Your Name, Please" from Earthbound :)

[@PSIChris]

Such a good vid!

[@Knuxsega]

Mother background music T O T Great vid, Having skipped SM4SH, this was really informative.

[@SekushiKokujin]

Do you get ledge invincibility again if you regrab or does it behave like smash 4?

[@gameshalfempty7744]

Nice stuff dude

[@h0w1inmaDStudios]

Will the Parrying video include conversation about good out of shield options for the game? The one thing I've found troublesome is that I cant seem to punish when an opponent hits my shield, even if its with a laggy move

[@Kyubi888Naruto]

There's a thread on SmashBoard confirming that shield throwing got nerfed. So that option is for sure worse. This is the thread. It's pretty insightful. smashboards.com/threads/shield-and-parrying.464662/

[@Kooper.]

I'm happy KZbin recommended this to me. Super useful stuff!

[@BigLord]

Hey GimR! Love the new video, got lots of new info out of it, actually. New ledge roll option looks great, for example! Got any plans for a video on Mii Fighters? I feel like the people must be informed about how they work in this game, I still see some TOs banning or limiting them for invalid reasons.

[@GimR]

probably not for a while. Too much on my plate atm

[@777paito]

ill never get tired of that outro lol

[@TheLegless101]

"That might be possible but don't take it as the gospel" might be one of my new favorite phrase.

[@zario12]

And we're back!

[@giorgnnamq8108]

Subscribed, I am trying to get into the Tourney scene and you might just have the lab for it!

[@domothebro2435]

Hey gimr does playing the game on a GameCube controller through the adapter feel sort of off? To me it feels as though I don’t have as much control of my character as I did in other games or that I can’t be as precise. Leffen talked about this but it was a bit hard to understand. The biggest problem I’ve had is jumping and controlling my jump, a problem I’ve never had before

[@NoshuHyena]

People have tested various controllers with this game, and there's no significant difference in lag between any of the control schemes (though GC Controller has the least amount of lag by milliseconds, if you're curious). What Leffen was feeling was part placebo, part the fact that the Pro controller's buttons are snappier than the GC controller's and travel less distance for an input. However, testing has also indicated that Smash Ultimate has about 6 frames of built-in input lag (By comparison, Melee has 3 frames and WiiU has 4). That's why things might feel off. And your jumping difficulties might be due to the new universal 3-frame jumpsquat, so you have to release jump very fast to get a short hop (just think Fox's shorthop in Melee).

[@domothebro2435]

@@NoshuHyena oh ok i had no clue about the 6 frame input lag. Gonna be honest its been messing me up in the clutch situations when i have to be very precise. As for the jumping it's part my fault for using tap jump but like i said i had been used to it in other games and in this one it feels almost impossible. Same thing with trying to walk but end up running

[@NoshuHyena]

I can see how using tap jump in this game would be incredibly difficult :P I'd recommend biting a bullet and changing over to button jump, but I'm sure I don't need to tell you that.

[@Xeroskia]

Let's go, Gimz.

[@Morgan.Farkind]

I have that exact thing happen when I try to react to ledge rolls. I wind up whiffing past the enemy and eating a free punish. Good to know.

[@FrnzFrdnnd]

I have to learn new ledge mechanics? Back to the lab again.

[@CFlandre]

UH OH

[@Tibazz]

Love it ! More info please : )

[@OldManTastic]

Does anybody know if they've made any changes to the button mashing escapes? Breaking grabs, breaking ice, being buried, recovering from sleep and shield breaks? Do you use the same method as Smash 4 or is there a new, more efficient way?

[@TFWPLSSUB]

It's a bit faster to use both buttons and stick to mash probably

[@OldManTastic]

@@TFWPLSSUB in 4 you could use one or the other, the buttons and sticks wouldnt stack.

[@TFWPLSSUB]

I know, it probably changed in ultimate

[@beefbelly]

hey gims, from what i can see frame by frame in the training room when using regular get up from ledge, there are 2 frames of vulnerability before you can act. i'm buffering shield as i'm doing a regular get up and it appears that there is a two frame punish window. correct me if i'm wrong

[@GimR]

the first frame of shield doesn't show the shield for some reason. Is that what you're seeing?

[@beefbelly]

@@GimR Ah okay. Yeah you're right. I tested with ZSS's frame 1 jab. Even though the shield doesnt seem to appear when it's not colliding with a hitbox, it does indeed appear when it's blocking a hitbox. good to know!

[@themedic1137]

I've been having a heck of a time trying to make it back on stage as Snake against my brother who tends to nair me back off if I go high, and bair stage spike me if I go low. Any advice?

[@GimR]

Gotta tech when you go low. You're probably trying to tech too early

[@themedic1137]

@@GimR Thanks for the reply. I'll practice some more, and hopefully be able to tech somewhat consistently. I've been trying to work on ways to mitigate taking huge amounts of damage while trying to recover from off stage.

[@DennisEhhhNein]

thank you Gimr, very cool :)

[@FreakofNature147]

The intro music is pure nostalgia my dude

[@SawBlade289]

Ledge Attack is invulnerable for the first frame the hitbox is out, which makes it soooo so so so much safer to use in general. I find it extremely useful against people who try to charge a smash attack on the ledge waiting for an option to punish. I feel like this is strictly a smash 4 habit though, and it will probably die out sooner than later. Still makes ledge attack way more useful and I find myself using it way more often because it’s not a completely awful option now lol.

[@salj.5459]

Ok but where’s that intro from? I need to know the song.

[@twotamatos]

If ur a Jr main just Spam abandon ship with Jr drill or throw a mecha koopa odds are it’ll hit them when they stop blinking and there invinca frames go away also just air dodge to that ledge baby such an awesome feature

[@ThePicc98]

How do I do the ledge rolls?

[@blissfulstatic2563]

does ultimate's mechanic of punishing for repetitive defensive options slow down the ledge roll as well?

[@JoNassRasierer]

Dear GimR, I apologize for the off-topic, but might it be possible that Game & Watch can't get two 9's in a row with his Side-B anymore? As someone who once got five of them in a row, it would be really unfortunate for me if that was the case.

[@blues4509]

I wouldn't mind hearing earthbound greatness in the background for each of these videos lol

[@ddaleem]

Great!

[@viktorkartalov1102]

Can't you punish ledge rolls with the new roll cancel grab tech tho

[@Rztro1544]

1:40 can you test this with a gimped bowser jr out of up b?

[@DREAMSQU33ZE]

That Mother 2 music though 👌

[@ashutan2130]

Where can i find the Lab theme in the outro? That's a Jam.

[@GimR]

search "back to the lab again"

[@MrCarrot14]

Imagine not mentioning the 5 regrab limit.

[@RJMX]

Just about to say this.. lol

[@viktorkartalov1102]

THIS COMMENT WAS MADE BY LEDGE REGRAB LIMIT GANG

[@GimR]

It doesn't matter. Why on earth would let someone regrab the ledge 4 times in a row when there's no invincibility?

[@stylishgaby]

@@GimR Pokémon trainer, since switching refreshes ledge invicibility

[@yellowlemonPenguin]

@@GimR tell that to Wii fit trainers, they live on the ledge.

[@JumbaJumby]

Yeah, getup attack is straight up fully invincible until the hitbox. I know, because Lucario's aura ledge trap just doesn't work in this game. I labbed it a ton, and it will never hit the opponent out of getup attack, which wouldn't happen if it had any vulnerability.

[@phlash649]

Love the background music

[@defi71zh]

that is a great thumbnail

[@the_furf_of_july4652]

I heard there’s a maximum number of times you can grab the ledge in a row before it just stops working. Is this true?

[@JamGameRoom]

The_furf_of_July I’d have to double check, but I believe it’s after five ledge grabs

[@NinjarioPicmin]

@@JamGameRoom correct

[@the_furf_of_july4652]

If so, why wasn’t it in the video?

[@NinjarioPicmin]

@@the_furf_of_july4652 he said because it does not affect competitive play that much at all, because there is literally almost never a time when you regrab the ledge 5 times before touching the stage again. but if you dont believe it just go into training and jump on the ledge 5 times you will see yourself...

[@the_furf_of_july4652]

Ninjario Picmin Issue is I don’t have the game yet. That’s why I’m asking in the first place

[@clarambrosia9834]

i was wondering why ledge trump back air was more inconsistent with falco now. thx much

[@ThirtyfourEC]

Thanks Sir Gimz

[@shuccle6161]

I was hoping you were going to mention how you're forced to hold on to the ledge for much longer in this game In smash 4, you could let go pretty quickly after grabbing the ledge. This made it possible to punish your opponent with stuff like back airs after ledge trumping them. If your character had a tether recovery, you could let go of the ledge instantly. This gave characters with tethers much stronger trump options. In Ultimate however, even with a tether you're still stuck grabbing the ledge for a very long time before you can let go and do an action.

[@MrPomegranX]

Welp, back to the lab again...

[@SonicAdventureEnjoyer]

I see you with the EarthBound music.

[@CanadianBaconPwnage]

Heh heh, Dedede can still do his bread and butter ledge trap, even with the new mechanics at the ledge. :D

[@GimR]

yeah the gordo toss got buffed. really annoying! lol

[@christiangreen2324]

Tbh tho if it's a platform fighter shouldn't being not on a platform or not on stage be a disadvantage point for everyone? if they took away all invincibility while hanging on the ledge and only give invincibility while rolling on to climbing or attacking on to the stage that would be awesome, the opponent would have to react fast or risk getting their fingers chop by a tipper forward smash from Marth, or any other low hitting smash attack

[@joshsmith2919]

Thanks for the info Mr Scientist

[@miguelangeltorresalonso-al1851]

Can you make a video on snake’s self stick mechanic?

[@frankcassidy6498]

Could you analyze the cstick pls? Leffen says it sucks for ctilts. Also that GC controller has more lag than pro controller.

[@NoshuHyena]

People have tested all the control schemes and there was no significant difference between any of them. What Leffen was feeling was half placebo, half snappier buttons of the Pro controller. Edit: that test I believe did not include the Wavebird, but I assume it's laggier than wired GC just because historically it's always been.

[@mateorodriguez2300]

Man I really liked ledge trapping, Especially with Dedede. It really was pure mind games and skill. Your video makes me understand why they did it, but still not sure if I like it. The faster pace of Ultimate is awesome but I feel it removes some of those moment to moment mind games.

[@GimR]

D3's gordo is better now hard to get on stage against him

[@Orcaudio3]

i was hoping you would comment on exactly how much faster the ledge invincibility runs out in this game when you're at high %. it almost feels like u dont get any

[@bronom6056]

You forgot about the fact that now you can ledge hop. Because there is no cool down. I think that it might be useless, but the option is there :)

[@xtremewireless1802]

I wish that someone could make a video explaining what is good and what is not for new smash players. I play fighters like Street Fighter and I really want to get into this smash. Can you point me in the right direction?

[@Birzt]

Currently trying to figure out while c stick nair happens on buffer sometimes. Seems very inconsistent.

[@notasian7620]

happened to me a lot usually from online lag and wireless controller interference i think the c stick is read as two inputs and sometimes the game only reads half of the input

[@lachlanplache7148]

Leffen has a video about it. Something weird with c-stick buffered aerials.

[@juicyboi121]

Someone in the comments of Leffen's video points out that the C-stick is literally inputting a direction and A at the same time. The problem is that in certain scenarios only the A input can be buffered. That's why inputting a c-stick flick and jumping at the same time will always be Nair (though the directional input still seems to affect your aerial drift). There's a really great video out about buffering that shows how you can abuse this mechanic for instant RAR Bairs and frame perfect retreating turnaround Nairs.

[@lududelubin3011]

Does this mean that get up attack is a more viable option against Lucario charging aura sphere when he's right at the ledge

[@GimR]

Yup!

[@1_____________________]

Also you can't regrab the ledge the 5th time if you didn't land on ground in that time or got hit.

[@1dayago843]

Did you already mention how you can only grab the ledge a limited number of times now?

[@Chickenstew-yi8ih]

Holy shit GimR’s voice is so smooth Kreygasm