Analyzing And Improving A Coffee Roast

[@richardburley2820]

I just want to say thank you, I'm treating my self to my first coffee roaster for a birthday present to myself, and im finding you channel a huge help. and not to over whelming. great work! keep it up.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Happy birthday Richard. What roaster are you buying? I'm glad my videos have been helpful. Thanks for watching and being a subscriber.

[@mariogiraldo3492]

Thank you Mike fantastic video very useful in my learning 👍

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching Mario. I’m glad it was helpful!

[@MrDistill]

Lots of good information. Thanks for laying all this out. It’s nice to be pointed in the right direction.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Glad it was helpful. Thanks for watching "M".

[@shanewilson2152]

Hi Mike, enjoyed your video again, great content, lm going to try and follow your advise.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Shane, thanks for watching. Glad my video was helpful!

[@TheTroutDoc]

I would think that the rise in ROR at the end is the change of a indothermic to exothermicc reaction that occurs after first crack and the beginning of second crack. A natural action in the roasting process.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching and your comments. Agreed, the beans are releasing pressure at crack. Most of my roasts are clearly nowhere near 2nd crack and I have seen some beans have a tendency to flick after crack. They tend to be lower density beans that really like to take off

[@hushedambience9698]

Hadn’t even thought to open the been for thoroughness and to ensure a homogenous roast throughout the bean. Also watching this video confirmed my thoughts on avoiding some slight scorching I’ve had in my roasts lately. Great tips! Loved this video. Thanks chief!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Glad you enjoyed the video! Yea, the scorching thing was a real surprise to me. I rarely see that with my roasts and this high density Sumatra was the last coffee I thought I would see that on. So, I guess the lesson for me is don't assume a high density coffee won't scorch. Thanks for watching!

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

I hadn't been opening up the seeds to check them, but I did today. I was glad to see a very consistent color throughout the seed on the last 2 roasts. I'm dialing in a new type of coffee coming from Columbia. My first time roasting a Columbian and I'm very impressed with the flavor and seed to seed consistency. It's a washed coffee. It does well no matter how I roast it. Light or medium, slow or fast roast. Truly a pleasure to work with! This is rare for me to find a coffee like this.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, Colombians are nice. I've got a pink colombian I've been roasting and it is a gem. Glad to hear your Air Fryer system is giving good consistent roasts

[@daRock1212]

Since I'm a new home roaster, I'm definitely keeping a Google sheet log of all my profiles. I track my intended roast plan, milestone times, temperatures, percent weight loss, and tasting notes. Since I'm working with an SM Popper with a smaller capacity, I'll also do two or three roast variations for new greens and compare the tastes. It's fascinating to change parameters like shortening or stretching out each phase and comparing beans on pourover, espresso, or cupping. A smaller roast capacity means three back-to-back roasts for two weeks consumption (not terrible at a half hour total), but makes these comparisons not too wasteful and means i have more purpose when I do my "big" roast. Keep up the great content!

[@jayknudsen149]

I’m curious as to how stretching out the dry phase will affect my cup. I’m going from a west bend to a SM Popper.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Jay, The dry phase length doesn't directly change the flavor profile BUT is does influence your total roast time. The dry phase also influences your overall "momentum" in the roast. If too much heat is applied during the dry phase, and it is too short, there is a high likelihood you will "overshoot" your browning, moving too quickly thorough that phase where much flavor development takes place. So, think of the dry phase as a "pace-setter", allowing you to maintain control of your roast, planning enough momentum to peak at the end of dry and then begin to slow the roast down, timing each phase as you target a time and temperature for first crack and ultimately drop. Enjoy your Popper!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Nice job daRock1212. Experimenting is how we learn! Thanks for the encouragement.

[@mgriff2000]

Hey Mike thank you for the detailed pictures of the beans it really helps! I have been analyzing my roasts for about the last month. It has helped me tremendously. I'm still not very good at keeping a journal and I sometimes struggle making sure all my artisan logs are saved and named clearly enough. Every weekend I get a little better. ☺️

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Matt. I'm glad my video was helpful for you. If you are using Artisan, you can log your events and also your temperature and fan changes. There is also a place for notes and even tasting notes with a score. That might be helpful. Otherwise, a journal book OR a spreadsheet might be good to try. Small improvements each week = great coffee. Enjoy!

[@abhisekhkoirala3430]

Great 🎉

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I am glad my videos are helpful. Thank you for watching!

[@bluesfool1]

Great video again mike. I agree with completely that it’s important to analyze every roast. Even more important if your intent is to sell your coffee. I did my very first roast with a decaffeinate coffee from Honduras last week and I just made my first cup. It’s not bad. I almost never get anything perfect on the first try and expect to do around three roast’s before I feel like I’ve got a good understanding of how the bean and my roaster play together. One thing on your roast I might offer as an observation is I’ve always found the temperature and Ror jump up a little at first crack. Something to remember is that at that point the beans have gone from absorbing heat energy to releasing heat when they crack. So it looks like that’s what you see. I think if you look at all of your roast logs, I think you should see the same thing. On the scorching, I am not familiar with the beans you roasted, but what was their density? I find lower density beans will scorch easily so adjust accordingly. Faster drum speed, lower charge temperature, do a 1 minute soak, etc. great video!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Jason, Thanks for you comments. Yes, this was a Sumatra bean that was fairly high density. I was surprised with the scorching. So absolutely a faster drum speed and lower charge temp. The flick just before first crack is something i really need to work on. How that affects the cup, i'm not sure but i'm sure it didn't help. What I mean is i'm not sure i would be able to taste the flick..... If you notice the "rollercoaster" effect on my profile, this has been bothering me for some time. I'm thinking it is probe noise OR inconsistent air BUT looking at my exhaust line it is fairly straight. I was talking with Michael Herbert (Artisan) who also has a Mill City 500 Gram and he changed his probes and phidget out to a different system which also allows him to monitor airflow. I'm hoping to move to that later this year if I can find the time. That should help provide more information about what is going on. Thanks again for the observations, comments and encouragement Jason!

[@matthewhoffman6868]

I do all of the above, but I also measure the colour of the ground coffee and the solubility (via extraction yield). Colour meters and refractometers for home usage are much more affordable than they were a few years ago when only professional equipment was available.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Matthew, thanks for sharing. My son has a refractometer. What is the color meter you have that is affordable? That sounds interesting.

[@mgriff2000]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I would also like to know about a relatively consistent affordable color meter.

[@jimschofield968]

Another great tutorial thank you. Quick question referencing your point around 12:18.....I had a banger of a small batch roast 30g on my Ikawa Home. A really syrupy body and fruity Indo. I then thought Great! I'll scale up the volume, keeping same profile and key waypoints, but with a higher capacity (80g out of a possible 100g) but it turned out a bit flatter in taste and less body. Although still drinkable, I want to know why. I think it may have been your point about drum speed (or in my Ikawa case, airflow) being a bit slow, causing scorching and uneven coloration of the beans. I'll try and up the airflow and see if I can get that dream cup from a bigger batch size, otherwise, I am out of ideas 💡 😅

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Jim, thanks for sharing and for your question. That is a really interesting point. Assuming there is ample bean movement to prevent some roasting defects, how does airflow affect the cup? I know that is a slightly different issues than what you are trying to work out. You are saying that the roaster compensated the increase bean load by adjusting its power settings to keep the same temperature profile BUT you didn't modify the fan speed to compensate so less bean movement may have caused a different result in the cup. That is really interesting. And your ultimate question then is how do you scale it? My limited experience would say if you increased your bean mass by 50%, then consider increasing your air by 25% and see what happens to your bean movement. If you visually see that this more movement than you had with your 30 gram batch then adjust and taste. I'm thinking it isn't that simple though. I mean the temperature of the bean, although it it taking the same amount of time to get to dry, I wonder if you compare your dry end temperature between the two roasts if they are the same. I would bet they won't be. Another visual indicator would be the necessary inlet temp increase to be able to dry the beans beans. Is that higher on the larger batch so it can maintain the same dry end time? Just curious what this looks like on your profile if you compare one profile to the next. I know my mind just went all over the place but that would be a great problem to solve. I''m sure it won't be so simple and probably can't be a general rule for air roasting people to apply across the board. I'm interested to hear what you discover. Thanks again for sharing.

[@fredaltfeter]

wonder that your coffee was missing the fruity pie-slice in your flavor-wheel, by looking at the profile.. by diminishing the final phase, is where i believe the acetaldehydes, damascanones, and methylbutanol/propanols - which lead to fruitier volatile compounds - can cut off the sharp, bright bitter result of a roast, but perhaps, using a drum roaster, you can stall out the RoR right at the start of FC, and get a longer, more drawn out phase, even by just another 5% will provide more dried fruit flavors? thanks for the upload, am glad to see this much consideration taken in home roasting and can learn from your sharing

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for sharing Fred. Yes, I imagine the flat ROR in development could have attributed to the lack of fruit I was hoping for. I did a roast on my channel more recently that demonstrated exactly what you are talking about. I extended the development time while keeping temperature increases down during that last phase. You can see that video here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/f4TLZYKDfdlgY68 Thanks for sharing your experience/thoughts and for watching!

[@fredaltfeter]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab oh great, sure when i watch that i will unlock another idea for my roasts!

[@luigicollins3954]

Great video Mike. I have GOT to learn to master roast analysis. I do it on each and every roast, and I am learning lots of things, but I always end up with more questions than answers. And rarely do I get anything 100% conclusive, and it's usually when I have really botched a roast for whatever reason. Not sure if you mentioned this, but I also do another kind of analysis that might be called roast equipment analysis. That's where you see if a parameter change on your equipment actually achieved the intended result in a roast characteristic - and taste of course. For example, on my Behmor I was trying to lengthen the Browning Phase. And as I was trying different things to achieve that, I found that controlling (slightly lowering) chamber temp during Drying seemed to make it easier to control temps during Browning. So I learned that the momentum factor during Drying on a Behmor has a significant effect on what happens during Browning. A question for you on your roast. Do you think your fan speed has any effect on scorching or tipping? I really don't know if it does, since my current roaster does not allow control of the fan. But since I will hopefully soon be using a roaster that has a controllable fan, I'm really curious. Thanks for your good work here!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Lou, before editing, I had an hour of video that included a section on fan speed which could have added the “roasty “ note but I’m really trying to be concise and not overload. Fan speed is really important. Manufacturers build these roasting machines and they are sometimes out of touch. My roaster has a fan that is way overpowered and it is hard to measure what’s going on. The lighter trick is my only way of really knowing. I would like to monitor air…. Hopefully sometime this year if I can swing it. That will help with consistency.

[@alaskavaper966]

Any chance of a video on selecting equipment (thermocouples etc) for a home roaster to add such better insight to the roast process. Love your work.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That's a tough one because there are so many different types o roasting devices. You use a popper and the recommendations might be different for other devices. I think I shared an inexpensive probe you could use for the popper. One of my popper videos has a link to it. It only costs 14 bucks. I will see if there are opportunities to talk about probes. What other equipment were you referring to? Just curious. - Thanks

[@alaskavaper966]

As for other equipment, I was thinking about such things as software and connection to the computer screen and the like. Thanks for asking.@@VirtualCoffeeLab

[@bagelsbrewsllc-sesserillin4472]

Hi Mike . I've been roasting coffee now for about 6 months on a Diedrich IR-7. I've added Artisan and Phidgets to help follow my roast. I have a degree in Mech. Engineering and majored in Thermodynamics so even though I understand many of these principals, I'm still having trouble with the phases and getting the body and taste I'm looking for. Can you talk with me a little about the 3 phases and the times of those phases, working with the Maillard reaction and all within a 13 minute roast? I know I'm asking a lot but I feel you're the guy that can help me! :)

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi, I’ll be glad to offer some thoughts. First, can you tell me more about your roaster and provide a link to it on the manufacturers site. There seems to be two or-7 machines. One is kilo and the other is pounds. Also, is your roaster automated? How are you controlling the roaster? Are you able to control your roaster to hit target event times? This is a gas powered roaster yes? Please provide an example of your charge temp, turning point time and temperature, dry end time and temp, first crack time and temp and drop temp. How dark are you roasting? Are you taking your roast to 2nd crack? Lastly, what type of coffee are you roasting? Is it high quality specialty coffee. Let’s start with that and then I can share some thoughts.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I never heard back from you. Were you able to get the body and taste you are looking for. Chances are you are moving too quickly through the middle phase (maillard) so you have less body. I asked all of those questions so i could help give you a better answer. Are you using a larger roasting machine? Are you roasting to its capacity? It sounds like you may be roasting to capacity because of the longer roast time. Let me know. I would like to help.

[@dreff11]

Should I wait for the coffee to rest a few days before looking at the inside/looking at the color of the grounds?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Daniel, no, don’t wait. You can look at the bean right after it has cooled from roasting.

[@dreff11]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab great, thank you! What video of yours would you recommend if I want to learn more about ROR? I’m just getting into artisan and want to learn more about how that variable effects my roasts and where it should roughly be.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I think another good video on my channel related to that would be kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z6KxqqNsebSBnc0 Home Roasting With Artisan

[@welshbaloney]

Good stuff, Mike. I have to say I don't go through this rigor. I don't think my palate is sophisticated enough for the nuances. All I know is I have my go-to roast profile that I might adjust slightly based on the bean. WTS, I'm intrigued by your profile. You say it here and you've said similar things in other videos...this roast pretty much aligned with your expectations based on the roast profile you and your son decided upon ahead of time. That's the bit I'm stuck with. How to predetermine a profile. Otherwise, you have nothing to measure against.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That is a great point WelshMcSpicy. I did have previous roasts to measure against. That is how I got my profile, by trial and error, making changes to different times and temps during the roasting phases. I don't have a super refined palate either and I find myself using similar profiles for many of my roasts. But, it is good to experiment and try different profiles. What roaster are you using?

[@welshbaloney]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Understood. That’s how I arrived at my go-to profile but I was intrigued whether you had some other voodoo. I’m using a Sniper M2 Pro whic is a small drum roaster - 400g capacity (I consistently roast 340g per batch). It’s not gas-fired, but uses a proprietary bulb. It has bluetooth to connect to my Macbook so I can monitor and capture the roast profile with Artisan. Been using it for almost a year, now, with pretty consistent and high-quality (palate notwithstanding) outcome.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

That is a really cool roaster. What are your roast times like? Total roast time and phase percentages if you wouldn't mind sharing. Infrared for the heat but a special bulb? So it isn't a heat coil like the behmor or the bullet, but a bulb? Interesting.

[@welshbaloney]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi Mike. Average roast times for me (about 5s into 2c) are around 11m. I don’t really have the split across the phases - the LCD unit they supply doesn’t provide that level of data (nor an ROR curve unfortunately but it does have a running ROR reading). It does have Bluetooth connectivity to my Macbook for Artisan, but I was having issues with that so I went back to the LCD. My last Artisan roast showed 38%/42%/20% for Mexican Chiapas.Yep, it’s a bulb. I haven’t opened it all up to see what kind (yet) but I have placed an order for some spares just in case.

[@TimothyDorcas]

OKAY - I have purchased an IKAWA 100g Coffee Roaster. I have a few pounds of green beans to roast. Even after watching quite a few videos, I am not quite sure where to start. The IKAWA comes with quite few roasting profiles. Should I pick one that seems like it would be a good starting place? I am not going to lie...I am bit lost as to what to do next. Thanks! Love the content.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Timothy, Congrats on your new roaster. I have never used an IKAWA roaster. I know they roast differently than drum roasters BUT after looking through the IKAWA website, I think there are two profiles you might want to consider starting with. Just reading this pagewww.ikawacoffee.com/pro-sample-roaster-profiles/ is an education about roasting, although it is slanted towards the IKAWA, they also talk about roasting concepts which might be confusing for you now BUT soon will be a huge blessing to you. There are two favorites from either IKAWA or the actual users, not sure which but they are: Rob Hoos Tim Wendelbow Rob has been a gues on my channel here. He is an experiences master roaster that has roasted on a Behmor, Hive and many different professional drum roasters. He is also an author. Rob has a great post in the IKAWA site that talks about exhaust temperature but also includes one or two of his profiles. He also shares his basic event times he likes to hit with the IKAWA. www.ikawacoffee.com/for-professionals/blog/2016524rob-hoos-masterclass-on-setting-roast-profile-based-on-exhaust-temperature/ Tim owns a coffee shop and also a coffee farm. He has a standard profile he likes to use for most of his coffee. I have a feeling it is on the lighter side but not positive. His page on the IKAWA site is here: www.ikawacoffee.com/for-professionals/blog/tim-wendelboe/ There may be better profiles to start with. I understand you want to get right into it and roast some great coffee. These profiles might do the trick. More importantly is to understand what is happening to your coffee as you apply heat over time. So, learning is key. The IKAWA site will be very helpful for you. Let me know what happens!

[@TimothyDorcas]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the quick response! The profiles they have developed for the IKAWA beans are pretty good however, I am really excited to use my own beans and build my own.

[@silvstera]

i wish i see you using gene cafe some day , i need to hear about it from you really

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I currently don't have access to a Gene Cafe roaster. I would have to purchase one. Just about every video I create discusses basic roasting concepts you can apply to the Genie Cafe roaster. What is it you have questions about? What problem are you experiencing with your roasts?

[@210doc9]

Another good video, Mike Thx! About 5 mo ago I moved from roasting on Behmor 1600+ to a Huky 500T using Artisan data provided by 3 RTDs, so analyzing profile graphs is a new exercise I’m doing after every roast session as well as cupping (more appropriately called binary tasting….meh or yeah) in an effort to arrive at a good fit for each bean. If this is not an inappropriate request, when you post your curves, could you also post gas and air events? I know every roaster, ambient day etc is different, but It would be educational with the graph in this video to have you comment on your suspected cause of the flatline and flick at roast end. Was it caused by high energy going into FC, not dropping gas incrementally as FC progressed, increasing air too much at the end, or something else? Then a follow up comment on gas/air adjustments you might incorporate into the next roast plan for this bean near/in FC, if any, would be helpful. The Huky has a fixed drum speed of 72rpm, but others might appreciate that input. I hope this isn’t akin to asking for a secret sauce recipe and understand if it is. Appreciate your knowledge!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your question Doc and congrats again on the Huky. I'll try and include more information about gas and air on my graph. I think you are right, that would be helpful information. Honestly, the inputs will change from roaster to roaster as well as the profile and beans you are roasting but the concepts may help. As far as this roast goes, I wasn't monitoring my gas close enough moving into development. My comments at the 3:00 mark as well as the 10:30 mark address this a little. You can see the ET (red line) bump up a little. This was caused by the exothermic reaction of the beans and me not lowering the gas. The beans released energy and increased the ET while i should have been lowering my gas to slow down the roast. You are correct, referencing the settings on the artisan profile would be helpful as well as more details/follow-up comments on the adjustments as well. Thank you for your input. I'm always trying to improve my communication and videos and your feedback has been helpful. Thanks for the comments and for watching.

[@erharddinges8855]

What about color measuring, weight loss, and data you got before roasting?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yes, great suggestions Erhard. Weight loss is more data to help compare development time. Color measuring is also helpful but not everyone has a color meter. Thank you for your suggestions!

[@rc3443]

hi, new subscriber here, I've roasted 2Lbs of Hunduras coffee in about 8 batches in my homemade hot air roaster, and I always get a dry chalky after taste in both espresso and filter coffee, unless I roast it to dark with smoky flavor which I don't enjoy, how can I fix it?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi R C, first thing would be to look at your roast times. So how long to dry end when the coffee turns yellow? How long till first crack? How long are you roasting after first crack before yiu drop the coffee? Have you ever had a good roast with that coffee? Are you monitoring temperatures? Please shar whatever info you can and I might be able to offer some helpful response.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Oh, forgot to thank you for watching my videos and subscribing! Thank you!

[@rc3443]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab my roast process is like this, I put coffee bean in, turn on fan and start the coffee bed rolling without heat, and then turn on the heat around 1000W level(1200W is the max), the beans turn yellow in about 3 mins, and then if I don't turn the heat down, the bean will heat first crack around 5min mark, and lots of FC, I end about 20s after FC ends, if I turn down the heat after yellow, the temp rise slower, I don't get a lot FC, it is somewhat hard to tell when the FC ends, I measure the bean temp with a pizza oven infared heat probe pointing to the coffee bed from top, I end the roast at 450F to 460F around 10mins to 15min mark, the roast tastes medium to medium dark, if I end it at 470F, it taste dark with smoky flavor.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

R C - the dry chalky taste might be baked coffee. In really general terms, when temperatures are not high enough, the reactions taking place in the coffee either happen too much OR not enough. So, when you have a 3 minute dry time and then a total roast time of 10-15 minutes, you are roasting a coffee that will be flat and boring. I would recommend you watch my video "3 tips for new home coffee roasters" kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIjHp56fgJZjiJI which breaks down the roasting process into 3 phases. This might be helpful for you. A total roast time of about 7 minutes on a hot air system might give you some good results.

[@rc3443]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks, I will try it out