Coffee Roasting Plan For Light Roasts

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

The Artisan log file for this roast is available for free at my BuyMeACoffee site buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061 I mistakenly placed the wrong artisan file in the BuyMeACoffee link when I first made it available. If you already downloaded the file, it should be names: 24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog You can download the file for free here: buymeacoffee.com/virtualcoffeelab/e/286061 Sorry for the confusion.

[@ulisessanchez9681]

excellent very good thank you

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Most welcome Ulises. Thanks for being a subscriber!

[@aikitarik]

Thank you.. even though I’ve been roasting off and on for >20 years, I am learning an enormous amount watching these. I developed a taste for lighter roasts, but I couldn’t really roast with a profile (varying temp or air) on my old original Hottop and recently acquired a Cormorant roaster to play with.. it’s been an amazing change in capability and learning what how different profiles affect taste has been wonderful.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

wonderful. I hope you enjoy your Cormorant roaster. Is it the 500 gram model that tilts to empty the roaster? Thanks for being a subscriber!

[@davlogic]

Excellent roasting video on the Kaleido. I’ve been roasting about 10 years, first with the Fresh Roast and then with the Gene. Ordered a Kaleido M2 as my next roaster to get more quality roasted beans for my home brew. You have took the time to explain how these profiles affect the flavor of the coffee beans and I thank you for this.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Dave. I'm glad my video was helpful for you . Congrats on the new roaster!

[@billfrigo7602]

After experience with all of those roasters - which would you suggest for a first time roaster? (But 10+ year “veteran” for extremely high quality coffee and brewing)

[@davlogic]

@@billfrigo7602 I would start with a Gene Cafe roaster. They are easy to operate and you can get a decent roast from most green beans. Ventilation is the biggest factor for me (yes there will be smoke). The chaff collector fits onto an aluminum flexible dryer duct that can be positioned near an open window. I roast in my basement normally and have used the garage during warmer months.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@billfrigo7602 Hi Bill. I guess it depends on your budget and volume of coffee? I would probably suggest a drum roaster like the Bullet or Kaleido.

[@patrickmiranda2094]

I am not into roasting yet but I enjoy watching how you roast. I learn a lot pls keep it up!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Patrick. Thank you for your message. I'm glad my videos have been helpful!

[@Poundy]

Nice explanation of your plan - really clear. I think I've mentioned it before but you really should tune your Artisan axes, so you get better visibility of the data you have. Set minimum temps down to something like 50C and Max to 220C and you'd see a lot more nuance in the BT curve

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Brett. Yes, you have mentioned i should adjust my axes and I have, many times. One of the weak areas of the Kaleido which I have experienced occasionally is the bluetooth connection. When I loose connection, i have sometimes simply deleted artisan and the settings and started all over. So, what you see is the default settings after a reinstall. Yes, it is better to be zoomed in to see more of the nuances you mention. I absolutely agree. Thanks for reminding me to make the change. Thanks for watching. I'm glad you felt my explanation was clear :-)

[@Poundy]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab In that case I would strongly suggest saving copies of your settings - and recover that as well, and only change the bluetooth comms settings to match what your computer and roaster need (device port usually - for me on PC that's a COMx number for my BT connection to my equivalent of a BC5 ). That way you get your "preferences" and can deal with whatever needs resetting for your roaster quirks. Even better is if you can save it in a location that lets you see versioning and recover older versions if you need!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, good point. I do have multiple .aset files for my various roasters. I just never set one up with the M10. The occasional Bluetooth issue I experience with the M10 occurs when I am working too quickly in artisan saving a file and then resetting for the next roast. The Bluetooth gets confused or disconnected. When I go back to my artisan port settings the M10 is gone and a different name is there. I have to "forget" the device in my Bluetooth connections, do a reboot of my computer, and then reconnect. Most of the time it doesn't work and I literally delete artisan, start all over and it connects fine. This has happened about 5 times in the past 8 months. Not a major problem but irritating. Which versioning are you speaking of? Artisan?

[@Poundy]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab re versioning, I just meant at a file system level. I have (using OneDrive) the ability to go back and review or restore old versions of my settings should i ever need to, if there is ever a question or issue. I get the "confused if I go to fast", that's what my colleagues say when I explain something to them that I'm familiar with and they aren't... 🤣

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

that's funny. Thanks for the clarification Brett. I like the idea of using google drive for those files.

[@twonistwon2838]

this is awesome!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I’m glad it was a helpful video. Do you have an M10 roaster?

[@johnsnow3602]

Watched this one and the other video of how to make a plan. It's amazing to see how you planned ahead and executed beautifully. It is definitely the way to roast a good coffee. The question I have is how you determine those milestone parameters. You mentioned the tasting notes, density of the bean, etc. But how do you correlate the information and come up with those milestone values? Hope you could produce another educational video to talk about it. Thank you!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your comment and for watching. Not all of my roasts are beautifully executed. Some are complete disasters and I try to look at those as learning experiences. I'm able to hit the milesone's in my roasting plan because I have roasted close to 200 roasts on this M10 machine. I am very familiar with the necessary charge temperature and weight require to run a roast like that. When I roast a new coffee, I try and use a similar type of coffee variety, density, and process as a reference. Then I will roast that plan and tween as necessary. I think your question about "how to correlate information and determine the milestones" is really good. I kind of addressed this in the video. Because I wanted a light roast and the tasting notes seemed to be on the delicate side (meaning they might not work with a darker roast) , i determine my total roast time and the drop temp. I determine the middle phase time based on several things including how focused I want the acidity to be. I don't have a better way to express this AND it is my opinion, not a rule. I have a range of time I generally stick with for the middle phase. I like roasts that have 3 - 4 1/2 minutes in the browning phase. This can vary if I am using an air roaster or really small batches. But generally for batches of 400-1k I am in that range. For that particular coffee being roasted, the notes will change from the light bright notes to more darker muted notes in that span of time. I could roast the same coffee with a 3 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and another with a 4 minute middle phase and a 1 minute 15 second development and the coffee will have different tasting notes. So, depending on the notes I want I will manipulate the time in that phase. The browning phase is the same but different. I use the development phase to tame down acidity. The longer the development, the less acidity and definition in the notes and the more roasty it will be. I don't know if any of that makes sense but that is my thought process. Because I am familiar with the roaster and coffee I have a pretty good idea of my charge temp, drop temp need to be and from there i figure all the other parameters like total roast time and then the browning phase time. Oh, one more thing. I've been using a general approach for development time based on roast level. The lighter the roast the shorter the development time. Light Roasts about 1 minute or as long as 1 1/2 minutes depending on the bean Medium Roasts about 1 1/2 - 2 minutes depending on the bean Darker roasts about 2 - 3 minutes depending on the bean

[@johnsnow3602]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you so much for your detailed response. It makes sense to me now that I need to understand my roaster’s characteristics so I can make a better estimate for a given bean, where I have the experiences with the similar beans. The thing I didn’t do is to measure the density of the beans. That contributes the length of time of each milestone.

[@bolerkai]

Thank you, I am learning, slowly. 😁

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Levon. Thanks for being a subscriber and watching. I'm glad my videos are helpful!

[@LivingTheLifeRetired]

That’s amazing perfect timing. I’m going to try down load the file and if I can get it loaded up. Another great video and very helpful. My roasts never really come out according to my plan but a do have a section in my log for a plan and I do one up for every roast. I find that the times Artisan say are not all that accurate but maybe I need to enter more info into my roast? Nice job and thanks.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

They're not all like that Edward. Occasionally it all goes wrong. This was a delicious coffee. The artisan predictor that appears for dry and fc is a moving target. As your ror declines the time should get longer. Are your actual event times much different than what artisan says?

[@kg-Whatthehelliseventhat]

Hey Mike, Hello, how are you doing lately? I have been more down than up but as of today i feel i will be feeling better soon. I emailed the last company we ordered beans from to give them the opportunity to rectify the problems with my last order. Only the Honduran Esperanza beans were good... they were great, actually. Everything else was frustrating trash that was more hassle than it should be. Maybe the best thing i learned is that sometimes bad beans are sent. It should not happen, but it can. In a past reply you asked me to share what storage method worked the best out of the methods i was using. I had a mason jar, a jar that displaces the air but does not vacuum out the air and a Coffee Gator storage container. The one that displaces the air had the freshest taste. I do not know about other storage containers but this one worked for me over 1.5 months where i was not home or able to make coffee once i got home. Perhaps a legit vacuum container would be best. Have a great week. Talk to you another day.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for the follow-up. Yea, the vacuumed canister I’ve use is the airscape. Not really a vacuum. The internal lid pushes out the extra air. That works really well. The other canister I’ve used is made by fellows. I like the concept but the valve doesn’t seem to last. It leaks. Hang in there KG. Thanks for sharing.

[@shanewilson2152]

Hi Mike, l like the roast plane it makes a lot of sense.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks Shane. Making a roasting plan first has really helped me roast better!

[@nickr9784]

Is the coffee on the M10 on par with your MCR? I’m really leaning towards the M10 for its capacity to dollars ratio

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Based on my experience, yes the M10 can roast great coffee. The MCR 500 gram is a great roaster. You’re right, you can’t ignore the capacity of the M10. For lighter roast color profiles you will want to roast less capacity on the M10 (500 grams). Just trying to keep capacity real. The M10 sweet spot is between 400-900 grams.

[@ignacioart7559]

can you share more at this reference you use of the angle of ROR and how you compare that to your roasting time? I have an electric 2kg roaster and i never use your method. It takes me 13-15 minutes to end a roast, so veery far from the 9 minutes the angle tells me. If you can share any materials would be appreciated. I am thinking whether that´even achievable with my much lower RORs that peak at 18 at max with 1kg

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Ignacio. Thank you for your question. If you roast 1/2 kilo using the same temperatures, how long will it take to roast that coffee. Roast capacity is an easy way to help you achieve faster roasts. You will need to figure out your roaster performance based on capacity. Maybe for lighter roasts you roast less coffee per batch. Charge temperature is also another huge factor in total roast time. What type of coffee are you roasting and what is your charge temperature, first crack temperature and drop temperature?

[@TuanNguyen-k1w3u]

Hi Mike! Awesome walk through with the new M10 roasting these fruit forward Ethiopean beans! Is there any where in your archive of videos that you share about Artisan settings? I can't seem to get the same smooth looking ROR curve like you have, it's all choppy with spikes up and down. I know it's about the balance between probe sensitivity and smoothing, but please share the ballpark settings that are useable and helpful to us home roasters. Many thanks in advance and keep up the good work!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Tuan. Thanks for watching and your encouraging words. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.

[@IMNOTABARISTA]

Such an awesome video! ❤️ We’ll be roasting the same coffee tomorrow-wish us luck! 🙌☕

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Cool. Let me know how it turns out.

[@petes2572]

Hey Mike, awesome video as always! Roast curve 👌👌. How would you adjust your plan for a larger batch size? Say 850g. Do you typically skip allowing the coffee to soak on a roaster like the Kaleido? ie continuing to apply heat charge to TP? Thanks again!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Pete. I never really soak at all with the Kaleido. For a large bat size I use a high charged temperature if the Coffee can handle it and I’m usually 85-95% power right from the beginning. I find myself getting to dry end around 5 1/2 minutes.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

I forgot to mention that I don’t think I would be able to get a good light roast with 850 g on the Kaleido M10. I don’t think there’s enough power to pull it off without potential roasting defects

[@kensafranek2306]

Thanks Mike, Great video, Question for you, A friend sent me some Kona coffee beans, Would you recommend the same roasting profile to obtain the most flavor from these beans,? Thanks I’m roasting on a SR800 and my med roasts are about 10 minutes with 15-17 % development

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Ken. I don't think so. Without seeing the coffee I couldn't say for sure. Chances are the Kona is a more earthy, chocolatey coffee that is not as much a fruit forward kind of bean.. This profile lends itself to higher density coffee to highlight acidity. It the coffee 100% kona or is it a blend. Your roasting on the fresh roast so a coffee like the one in my video will be shorter total roast time. Are you still roasting with the Razzo?

[@kensafranek2306]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks Mike, the bean is suppose to be 100% Kona, I’ll let you know how it turns out,,,It was birthday present from a friend and yes, still using the Razzo tube with Roastmaster software,,

[@mattseibert8588]

This video is golden! I've been waiting for something like this on the M10 for such a long time😊. Your content is so good and down to earth. I have yet to watch an unhelpful video...and I don't even own most of your equipment 😂 2 questions: 1) Why such a small charge weight and 2) how would you envision the roast plan may change for an Ethiopian natural?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your encouraging comments. Charge weight is what allowed me to roast that profile. If I would have loaded up the roaster with beans, I never would have been able to get the peak ROR necessary to complete the roast in under 9 minutes. I generally roast light roasts at about 400 grams, medium roasts around 600-800 grams, and darker roasts will be 800 +. Now, that is a really general statement and there are exceptions. I could roast dark with a 400 gram roast and it would be longer than 9 minutes. I did a video about how batch size will influence a roast profile. In that video, I used the fresh roast coffee roaster and did 2 different batches with different charge weights. All other settings remained the same. The results will be different with your drum roaster than the air roaster. I would encourage you to experiment with two roasts and change the batch size by 15-20%. See the video here. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6OxlWOCZtRredE Regarding the Ethiopian natural, I would probably use a lower charge temperature compared to the washed. So, instead of 190c, I might use 180c. I'm guessing. naturals seem to take on heat quicker than washed beans.

[@mattseibert8588]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Makes since. I'll give the experiment a try. Just an FYI, not sure if I'm doing something wrong but they profile on your buy me a coffee sight doesn't quite match the one in the video. The drop temps are off.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Matt, thanks for telling me about the profile. I uploaded the wrong one. Oops. I have corrected that and the correct file is now available for download. The file name should be 24-08-04_ethiopian-400g-190c-194c.alog Sorry for the confusion.

[@victorrimkus8384]

Very nice presentation.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks Victor! Glad you liked it :-)

[@larryminer7177]

Just got a Guatemala Gesha from Sweet Maria and I wanted to try a lighter roast even though they recommend city to city+. Watched this with interest but my past experience has been that I hit first crack about 382F but I see that this is where you are doing your drop. Any suggestions on what I need to change? Thanks Mike and keep up the great work.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Larry, don't compare my temps with yours. If 382 is your fc temp on your roaster, then for a roast like this, consider dropping your coffee within 3-5 degrees. If your ror is low enough as you enter FC then you should be able to do that and finish out your roast with a little over 1 minute of development

[@larryminer7177]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab That sounds like a plan. I will definitely reduce my ror going into FC. Thanks Mike

[@MokuToddMorrisSteve]

Great video, Mike! One question, do you change the Artisan settings for the pid or graphs, your ROR seems much smoother than what I usually see. thanks!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Bill. I believe I am using the default settings that come with the M10 artisan config. I took a quick look at my Config > Curves > Filters and smooth curves is set to 5. ET and BT smoothing is set to 6.

[@saedalnaimat]

Hello aren’t we supposed to have at least 20% development time ? Why did yours have only 13%?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Saed, thank you for watching and for your great question. The 20% "requirement" became popular when Scott Rao (for whom I have great respect) included this in his book "Coffee Roaster Companion". It is a great book that I highly recommend. In my "essentials" playlist I have a video that suggests you have a 20% Development Time Ratio (DTR) which I recorded several years ago. For me, that video was a perfect starting point for any new home coffee roaster. It is a solid phase percentage that will produce good roasted coffee. It is a starting point. Since then, I have realized through my own experiences that DTR is helpful but can also be misleading. I focus on time in development, not just the percentage. Not long ago, Scott Rao was asked the very same question you asked. He was asked if it was a mistake? Scott responded: " The most famous (or infamous) advice in The Coffee Roaster’s Companion is a recommendation to drop coffee at a DTR of 20%-25%. Was that a mistake? Perhaps in delivery, but not in substance. Do I roast to 20%-25% DTR? Not often. Huh? At Prodigal, for example, we use an air roaster and average lower than 12% weight loss per batch. We’ve occasionally neared 20%, but most roasts end up with much lower DTR.... " There is more to Scott's answer. I would encourage you to read this article. It is very interesting. www.scottrao.com/blog/2023/10/6/what-changed-in-coffee-over-the-past-30-years For me, I base my development time and ratio on my goal for what i want to taste in the cup. I use the development phase as a place to determine the amount of acidity i want in my cup. It isn't just time we should be looking at as we decide our roast profile. Bean color and ending temperature are huge factors. There is a lot more attached to this topic, but for now, I hope my response was helpful. What do you think?

[@johnsnow3602]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I like your answer very much. I noticed that for my R1 roaster, with 17%DTR I can get good results most of the time, mainly based on the color. However, in some cases, like Sumatra, it does not work well. I may need to watch for other factors, like the ending temp. Thank you for your responses to the comments. I always learned something from them.

[@chrisDeBona]

Hi! You have taught me how to roast beans at home and I thank you! I do have a question for you, how do I know when to drop my beans if I am unable to hear the first Crack? I can see and smell the roast but can never hear the first Crack. What temps are good ending temps for a light roast?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@chrisDeBona Hi Chris, thanks for watching my video about a roasting plan for light roasts. What type of roaster are you using and how are you monitoring temperatures? Please let me know so I can try and answer your questions.