Taking Control Of Your Roast

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Coffee Tasting Results From This Roast: The coffee is clean and bright with a gentle citrus acidity and an underlying syrupy sweetness. I brewed with a Kalita and it has a medium body mouth feel. The finish is a juicy medium body mouthfeel. I roasted it on Saturday and did the recording on the same day so I wasn't able to include a tasting until today. I can't even tell it is a decaf? Pretty impressed with my little Ferrari/Hive roaster hehe.

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

Excellent work, my friend! Blessings to you and the family.

[@slackandsteel]

Best video i have seen on roasting with the Hive. I have the same setup but have not taken control to this level. I just shoot for 300 degrees at 6 minutes, 380 at 8 minutes 30 seconds, and lower the heat to achieve FC at 11:30 or so and then depending on the coffee pull sometime during FC or wait for the end and pull. I have gotten some fantastic results using this method but lack consistency and know my ROR is all over the map. I am looking forward to using your method to keep it under control!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching and for your kind words. I'm glad you have enjoyed my videos. The method in this video does help keep the ROR in check. It won't be perfect but if following your temps, your ROR will be on mark every 30 seconds. Let me know how it works for you.

[@AshrafAbdu]

Nice video I just ordered a Hive Roaster. Keep up the good work and videos

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Ahhh, they are back in stock? They keep selling out. Congrats on your new roaster! Which version did you get? Thanks for watching :-)

[@luigicollins3954]

Very nice Mike. I really like these kids of videos - a LOT! Actual, real-time roasting, with no time slicing to shorten the video, and a clear display of the actual bean temperature. I am amazed that you got such precise temperature control, just by varying the hive-to-burner distance. John mentions his arm got sore just watching you roast; I wonder if the speed of hive rotation makes a big difference in roast temperature control. For example, could you have rotated half as fast and still gotten the same result? Any report on how the coffee tasted?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Lou, thanks. I'm glad you liked it. My arm wasn't sore after the roast. It is a little bit of a workout but it is worth it. The speed of the hive rotation is an interesting thought. I'm moving the beans primarily to keep them from scorching. The hive design on the bottom really makes it easy o keep the beans tumbling. Airflow is another benefit although I honestly don't know if it really influences airflow that much. I can say the coffee is clean and bright with a gentle citrus acidity and an underlying syrupy sweetness. I brewed with a Kalita and it has a medium body mouth feel. The finish is a juicy medium body mouthfeel. I roasted it on Saturday and did the recording on the same day so I wasn't able to include a tasting until today. I can't even tell it is a decaf? Pretty impressed with my little Ferrari/Hive roaster hehe.

[@johnsnow3602]

Nice job! My arm getting sour after watching your non-stop roaster shaking. Hehe.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

lol, yea, the Hive takes a little effort but it wasn't that bad. I think this is probably the easiest roaster I've ever used!

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

Hey! Great video setup! Temp, time, roast technique, notes and targets all on screen. Excellent video! Thanks for sharing with us!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching! Yea, I'm trying to offer the best way to let the viewer see everything, like they were right there with me. Thank you for the encouragement.

[@GoTellJesusSaves]

You're definitely going in the right direction! Maybe some other content creators will take notes. God bless you beyond measure, my friend. ~Jason

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@@GoTellJesusSaves Thank you.

[@a.t.701]

Hi, thank you so much for sharing this - so informative and helpful to get into this. I wanted to ask if you know anything about the Greek Coffee roasts. I understand that it's not only a brew style but also specialty beans AND lightness of roast - being milder than even first crack perhaps. I wanted to see if you could shed some light into roasting for a Greek Coffee. Is there a top target finish bean temperature that you would suggest when roasting it? Thank you again. Andrey.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello Andrea, not familiar with this. Read this link specifically the person from that region who explains what it is. www.home-barista.com/roasting/roasting-for-turkish-greek-style-coffee-t6090.html

[@a.t.701]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you.

[@davidduryea8172]

Thanks for the informative video. Would these time/temps be something to shoot for with all types of coffee or just decaf? Also noticed on your chart you had charge temp of 135 but in the video you had the hive roaster up to 220 or so. I just purchased a hive and charged to 135 and felt like I couldn’t get caught up quick enough within the 5 min dry phase.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi David, Thanks for watching my video! Yes, I think you could try to apply these times and temperatures to your roast as well. Even with the decaf coffee. It is a good roast to start with and then you can modify the charge temperature and the total roast time to your liking. For example, if you’d like a dark roast then you could extend the development time a little bit. As far as my charge temperature, I did have a 220° pre-warm but by the time I opened the roaster put the beans in and started roasting you could see that the bean temperature reading was 135° so that is my charge temperature. If you pre-warm to 135 and then put your beans in and then start roasting, you will be lagging behind my times and temps. Use my roast to familiarize yourself with the roasting process. Watching times and temps so you can understand how far to hold the hive away from heat. After a few roasts it will begin to be more natural. With regards to the decaf, you may notice it difficult to see the. Or transition. An led light is really helpful when looking in the hole. Also, use your nose and smell the beans during your roast, especially near dry end and write down what you smell. Try and match that up with your color change and after a few roasts you will be able to get close to calling dry end with both sight and smell. Thanks for watching my video!

[@BlaineShillington]

Is there a guide to determine the final temp to shoot for? I understand how to work backwards from there. Thanks!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Blaine, thanks for your question and for watching my video. I'll do my best to answer your question but I feel like I should add a few comments. The punchline is "not really". Where we roast (geographically), what type of environment, our equipment including temperature probes, the bean origin and coffee process method all create variables that prevent us from giving and x,y,z answer. It’s funny you are asking about this because the next video I show a method to help determine the answer to your question. Even though I’m using my drum roaster in the upcoming video, the concept is the same. Basically experts like Scott Rao suggest 20% of your total roast time be devoted towards development. I have shared my experiences with that suggestion and roast within a range of 13-23 percent development. Ultimately it is up to your taste buds and what you are trying to accomplish with your end result. So, a question is, how does development percentage correlate to a final temp? Realistically, we can drop our coffee at 400 degrees with a development percentage of 13% or 23%. That is the beauty of coffee roasting. The sky is the limit BUT not really. The limit is what you want to taste. Are you looking for a light roast, medium roast or dark roast? Are you roasting for bright fruit or for darker notes? Your answers will help draw you to a temperature that will work well for that roast. If you like, share the type of roaster, coffee and your preferred roast level and I can try to answer more directly. For me, 400 -408 is a medium roast range on my roaster. But that might not be so for you. What temperatures and results have you seen so far with your roasts?

[@BlaineShillington]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the detailed reply! I understand there are many variables. I plan to control my ambient temp within reason, and humidity doesn't vary greatly where I live. I can't speak to "what I have seen" as I am just getting set up with artisan and my new roaster coming from various DIY solutions where I was just roasting by feel and visual. I will be roasting on a mini drum roaster with gas heat (Kaldi Wide 400), which is a mix of conduction and convective cookery (and I suppose a bit of radiant from the steel drum). I will mainly be roasting the Burman Espresso blend, which I presume is mainly a central american arabica with a bit of robusta (not sure exactly). I will occasionally roast some single origins. Usually a Full city to just past Second crack (Vienna/Light french) at the most is my target. For a single origin, the most i'd probably go is a full city. One of my go-to single origins I have enjoyed roasting in the past is Ethiopia Guji natural processed.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for your reply Blaine. Once you get Artisan connected, I would recommend you log your first roast in cluding marking the events BUT do not use artisan to guide you while you roast. Do just what you have been doing as far as your normal roasting routine and then after the roast look at the results in artisan. That will be very interesting. Use your senses as you have and decide when to drop the coffee based on your past experience. I think you might be surprised by what you see in artisan. In the end, you have been roasting for a while and have a preference of your roast level, you just don't know what that temp happens to be. My roast level is lighter than what you are doing so really it is up to you. What artisan can help you do is shape your profile. You will be able to visually see your roast and then you can make adjustments to improve.

[@erharddinges8855]

Most admirable your efforts with this equipment! I will not use it. Very good video setting and documentation!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you very much Erhard! I'm trying to improve my videos.

[@erharddinges8855]

No need to improve anything! Take care of your tendons and your joints!

[@tomschmude4815]

If I roast with the hive roaster with no temp gauge, could you recommend 3 times: Dry time, 1st crack time, and dump? I know each bean type will need different times but I’ve simply been wasting my money because every roast (7 so far) taste like cardboard. Give me a starting point to shoot for please. I really love doing this, but it’s been frustrating. I personally do not think this should be sold without the temp gauge, because now I will most likely have to pay for another lid with temp gauge and pay even more. I made a mistake not ordering it with the temp gauge I guess. Love the roaster! Very consistent color of bean, just need one batch to get me a good cup to fire me up

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hi Tom, Consider a 5 minute dry, 3 minute browning and 2 minute development time as a starting point. A LED light to peek into the dome is really helpful to see the color and know when to call yellow. Let me know what happens!

[@tomschmude4815]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I will try that, thanks! I just roasted some Indonesian Sumatra and really all I could take notes on was 1st crack was at 6:10, I raised the hive a bit to lengthen and and when I dumped them I heard one crack so it must have been the beginning of 2nd crack at 10:10. How does that sound? I won't bother you any more, just curious. I will use a bright light to look in next time. Thanks again!

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Tom,No bother, no problem. Sounds like you are getting to first crack pretty quick. Taste the coffee and then see how that compares to your other roasts. I have a few recommendations for you. First, lower your heat a little so it takes a little longer to reach first crack. Second, use the coffee timer app coffeeroastingtimer.github.io/ to monitor your roast time. Mark first crack so you can know what your development time is. Dry and drop the coffee at 20% Third, in your mind, break your roast into 3 parts and focus on the first part of the roast (drying). Try and target to complete that in 5 minutes when you can see the coffee is now yellow. This may take a little practice with your heat. If you hit dry in 4 minutes, that's ok. Next time maybe hold the Hive a little bit higher off the flame. Fourth, Once you finish the dry phase, focus on reaching first crack 3 minutes later. Maintain the same heat and after a minute, look into the hive and see if the beans are now brown. keep going. You are on your way to first crack. Last, Once first crack starts, hit the timmer app "first crack" button and then make sure your first crack keeps going. If it sounds crazy and is really popping fast, raise the hive just a little bit to slow down the roast. After you do this a few times you will start to get a better feel how to manage the hive temps.

[@asrulmunir]

Maybe you can buy a cheap digital BBQ thermometer and stick the probe into the hole?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Yea, that might be the leas expensive way that @Asrul Munir Azizan shared. That thermometer I use for the popper video was only 14 bucks on amazon.

[@MrDistill]

Wow this roaster looks like it is a great place to start out. To be honest I have been wanting to roast at home for some time. But Popcorn poppers and roasting pans and toaster oven solutions don’t fit in my brain.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thanks for watching my video M. Yea, this is a great roaster. The only weakness this roaster has is visibility to the beans. You can look in the hole in the top but you will need a small flashlight. Then you can see color changes like green to yellow transition as well as the ending roast color. The hand charting is really easy and after you do it a few times you pretty much can just follow the temps like I did in my video and get some really good results. Of course the times and temps will be different for different coffee processes dry/washed/decaf as well as bean density and size.

[@pmccotter5569]

Is it possible to mod the original hive roaster with a meat probe?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

If you're handy with metalwork that might be helpful except you are moving the hive around and won't be able to see it. Plus, the meat thermometer dial wouldn't provide the incremental temperature readings necessary to monitor ROR. Hive was selling the digital dome top (it is backordered right now i think) but that might be a better option. The other option is to try and mod the digital meat thermometer with extension probe (inexpensive on amazon - like 15 bucks) into the hive.

[@Coffee_Djuna_04]

👍☕❤️

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thank you djuna_04 !

[@Stevesbe]

Bread machine and heat is the best cheap way to roast a lb of coffee if you're mechanically inclined enough to build one

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Steve, I would love to see the bread machine setup you are using. Can you send me a link to some pics or a video? Go to the "about" link on my channel here, scroll down the page and you can email me from there. I know you really like your setup and I wanted to check it out. Thanks - Mike

[@bamagtrdude]

i've been very impressed with my HIVE Roaster; i hacked mine & added a thermocouple myself & am able to control my roasts pretty well ... i've yet to "bomb" a roast ... my first roaster (and the one i use the most) is a Corretto DIY setup (bread machine/heat gun) - you can see my setup here, kzbin.info/www/bejne/qnfHYaZ6qNyAkLs ... you are spot-on about controlling a roast, though - no doubt, my roasts got A LOT better once i charted the RoR & got a handle on my heat over time

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

@bamagtrdude, That is a pretty cool setup. I have seen a few of those now. I watched that video and am wondering what your roast times look like. What type of coffee are you roasting. I see you like to go to a medium/dark roast. Nice Job on the setup.

[@bamagtrdude]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab i normally roast 12 oz's of coffee in about 12-13 minutes, depending on the origin & how dark i roast a particular batch - i also don't pre-warm/charge this roaster ... i've roasted mostly Central American & African origins so far & source my beans locally from a commercial guy in my hometown ... my roaster isn't the prettiest thing on the planet LOL but it's very effective & my roasts are repeatable, once i added the thermocouple & the regulator for the heat gun

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Thats cool. Thanks for sharing. I''m glad you can repeat roasts. Nice Job!

[@Anarchsis]

You didn’t soak?

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Hello @Anarchsis, no, I didn't soak because the charge temperature was low so I wasn't worried about roasting defects. On my drum roaster I am charging around 380 degrees but the hive roaster, even after a pre heat of 220 degrees when i placed the beans in the roaster and started to roast, I was down in the 150 range for the first minute. Thanks for noticing that. Soaking is a great method to lower the risk of scorching and tipping for heat sensitive coffee like this decaf. Some people don't soak. I've learned to use it most of the time on the drum roaster.

[@Anarchsis]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I have started to soak because of your videos and taking more notice of the 3 phases as well as the percentage of each of the stages, I think, for my machine anyway, that the development stage can be shorter.

[@VirtualCoffeeLab]

Your roasting on the Genie Cafe I think you said. How are the phases going?

[@Anarchsis]

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I think they’re holding up give or take a little time. I’m trying to finish a roast by 12 minutes so I’m varying temp. I think it’s a little ambitious because I don’t have the advantage of airflow to stabilize drum or bean temperature, neither of which I can measure, only exhaust temp. So I’m ending up with lots of medium roasts which is not my objective, I like darker, my La Pavoni is very quick to bring up any defects through the shot! So I’ll keep experimenting and try not to scorch or tip the beans. I am looking at building a fluidbed roaster as I can’t afford to import an Artisan e-3 or similar.