Analyzing the day a Psychopath Saved Voyager

Let me know your thoughts
Trek Chapters:
0:00 - Adore
0:05 - Analyzing Sudor
0:36 - Background of Sudor
01:38 - Janeway Confrontation
07:20 - Most Important Part
8:13 - Doctor Tempts Sudor
13:43 - The First Kill
15:47 - Accepting his fate
16:56 - Big Damn Hero
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[@BrokenCurtain]

Yes, Lon Suder was a psychopath. But he still was Star Fleet.

[@thrawn323]

This Actor played a Mentally unstable character on Babylon 5 to. As I recall it was a mind wiped killer that was reprogrammed as a monk.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

@@thrawn323 He was also Chucky in the Child's Play movies. He played the serial killer before he was transferred into the doll, and voiced the doll for the remainder. So yeah, he plays some really nasty characters. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Dourif

[@maisiesummers42]

@@thrawn323 Brad Dourif, who plays Suder, has made a career of playing unstable characters. He was the original Chucky, and Wormtongue in LOTR. I recommend looking into his work, because he's always fun when he turns up.

[@thrawn323]

@@maisiesummers42 thanks for the information.

[@dustinshadle732]

This is a top 3 favorite of mine. I had a sociopath in.the family. He was in Vietnam and was very good at manipulation and seeing what the VC had coming next. I studied traits of sociopathy and psychopathy and found that some of the biggest heroes and villains alike, shared these same traits. They had to evolve for a reason, but time and society change and leave some evolutionary traits largely unwanted.

[@GamingTeacher]

The VHS effect is actually delightful. Not only because Paramount refuses to even upscale Voyager (and DS9), but because it likely helps fool the content ID and makes it feel like an old styled lecture.

[@videoviewer2008]

The compression effects they have (had?) with the vertical lines in Voyager's sickbay is really bad (at least on Netflix). Would be nice to have a remaster/recompression that didn't do this.

[@Leto2ndAtreides]

Seems upscaling DS9 and Voyager is insanely hard and also super expensive. Might need to wait for improved AI upscaling.

[@matthew8153]

@@Leto2ndAtreides The shows were recorded on film stock so remastering that would be easy. The problem is the special effects. Best thing might be to just redo them from scratch like a new show.

[@-haclong2366]

I didn't like it until I read your comment, still don't like it, but I now appreciate it.

[@CsykKrit]

@@matthew8153 it's a money issue and iirc another mini doc explained the effort it took for TNG just to collect all the film. Let alone go frame by frame. I think they mentioned that all the film for Voyager cannot be allocated.

[@DeltaEcho303]

You could see the sorrow in Suder's face as he sacrificed his sobriety. I can't help but feel he welcomed death as he was finally granted peace.

[@jedimindtrix2142]

That was the idea behind him being killed at the end, well that and the fact that after this there really wouldn't be much for his character to do. They had to find a way to write him out of the show since all he did was sit in a room the whole time lol. But yes his death was very much a physical representation of his release and his inner peace being found just as he saves everyone.

[@dragonsword7370]

He might have been a damaged murderous betazoid... but he was Ours and his last acts were in service to his crew, that redeems him in some respect. He went out "with his boots on" surrounded by enemy fallen. A klingon might write a sonnet about Suder, especially near the end.

[@Sidharthavicious]

I'm hoping there is a transporter clone stuck in a buffer somewhere for Section 31 to utilize.

[@magicchord]

Wasn't he a Betazoid born without the empathic ablilties? This would make him essentially disabled among his people, and might having these abilities be essential among Betazoids to develop a healthy psychology? He seems to be written as unable to "read" people.

[@dragonsword7370]

@@magicchord might have been the cause to his sociopathy.

[@JohnDoe-xx8yw]

​@@dragonsword7370 I think it would be the other way around, his sociopathy may also be comorbid with his lack of telepathic ability or could have even caused it. Antisocial personality disorders (sociopathy and psychopathy) are characterized by a lack of empathy and betazoids are, well, empaths. Could be that his severely reduced capacity for empathy (sociopaths are considered to be capable of *some* degree of empathy, unlike sociopaths, which I think Suder shows is the case) renders him unable to tap into his telepathic ability

[@DocWolph]

@@JohnDoe-xx8yw Purebreed Betazoids are Telepaths. The ability is diluted in hybrids. And Sudor would be defined as a Psychopath, having been born to the condition, not a Sociopath having learned the "condition".

[@dangingerich2559]

Brad Dourif plays some of the most interesting characters, and he does it so well, as if to remind people that unusual people are still people.

[@zagnorch1336]

They couldn't have picked a better actor to play the part. Well, except perhaps for Jeffrey Combs, whose Star Trek acting plate was full enough at the time.

[@PuffyCloud_aka_puffeclaude]

In a franchise full of great character actors, Brad stands out. Testament to his brilliance.

[@cerahjoselet7423]

That reminding that unusual people are still people fits so neatly into Trek at it's best, and the fact he brought this much to such an unsettling character really makes one look at how it's always encouraged to just write people off for so much less. When i noticed him in Two Towers i was almost disappointed bc there was no way Grima Wormtongue was going to give him nearly as much to shine with! lol

[@dangingerich2559]

He also played a part in Babylon 5 of a serial killer who had his memories wiped that was just as well played. There are few memories that stick in my head for that long, but these are both in there.

[@zagnorch1336]

@@dangingerich2559 I took a hard pass on B5 when it first came out. But now that I'm searching for space-bound sci-fi hijinks outside of the legacy Star Trek mold, it seems as good a place as any to start watching.

[@TaliaIGhul]

At gunpoint, if I was to choose between Lon Suder and Gul Dukat, I'd choose Suder. He's not exactly sane and is definitely a psychopath, but unlike Dukat, when he wants to do good and redeem himself, it's genuine. He knows he cannot make up for what he's done, but he wants to at least try while helping his crew and ultimately died for them. Dukat is a genocidal narcissist who just wants to make himself look good in the eyes of everyone around him.

[@RRW359]

The worst Sutor will do is kill you, probably quick and relatively painlessly. Dukat will bore you and try to convince you that killing you is a good thing, along with trying to justify everything else he's done, and if you aren't convinced he probably won't kill you quickly.

[@newcarpathia9422]

I would agree, but for a different reason. Dukat is a skilled politician, which means he's a master in the art of concealing his true intentions. Drop him into this exact same scene and I would still not trust his intentions.

[@robertagu5533]

Super was the secret guard dog that Voyager neither knew they needed nor had till the end of this arc.. an it worked in his favor. He caught the Kazons COMPLETELY by surprise.

[@DocWolph]

An insane man never asks if he is insane and will fight you if you try to tell him as much.

[@ThePathStrider]

I'm still not convinced Suder IS a psychopath, but Gul Dukat definitely was. Like all psychos, Dukat was manipulative, self-aggrandising, and quick to blame his victims for what he does to them. Suder does none of that, he just had poor emotional control leading to violent outbursts. I think this makes him a sociopath, not a psychopath.

[@bemasaberwyn55]

Brad Dourif is a gift. From Chucky to Sudder to Grima Wormtounge....the man is AMAZING

[@ianrotten4453]

Don't forget about Piter De Vries from David Lynch's Dune!

[@chrismarshall7131]

And Brother Edward on DS9!

[@MichaelScheele]

@@chrismarshall7131, Babylon 5. One of his best TV roles.

[@chrismarshall7131]

@@MichaelScheele I blame myself. Rewatching DS9 while I wrote that!

[@name-vi6fs]

@@ianrotten4453 my first thought, and I don't even like that version.

[@wonkothesane8691]

Brad Dourif, among one of the most underrated actors in the world.

[@itsmeekers]

See him in Myst Exile Too.

[@Gantali9305]

@@itsmeekers was bugging me where i recognised him from..then it hit me. Hes Gríma Wormtongue from LOTR

[@itsmeekers]

@@Gantali9305 I don't remember him in that, but he kind of has his own nitch but as a troubled bad guy. He would be comparable a bit to Jeffery Combs except Combs hasn't been Type Cast. He made a good villain in Myst Exile 3. I really liked him on Babylon V as a Brother in a ministry that had been a Murderer the Black Rose Killer named Charlie that had been mind wiped only to be murdered by one of the Victims family. I really liked the Character and felt badly for him despite his past kind of how we did as Sauter.

[@NatsAstrea]

Agreed. And honest to goddess, I really hope he's just acting, his characterizations are so genuine. I hope he doesn't really feel the emotions he portrays, at least, not beyond his craft. Brrr. I wonder, does he actually know people like this, from whom he's drawing inspiration (an odd word to use for these horrifying characters, but still . . .). Does he spend "quality time" with serial killers, in order to achieve his ability to portray them so believably? Again, brrr.

[@str8ballinSA]

@@Gantali9305 Try Deadwood. Excellent series with great characters, and he is one of the strongest...

[@johnmiller7682]

A big part of what makes the Suder story arc so good is do, in no small part, to the acting of Brad Dourif. He's a much better actor than this show deserved.

[@LoreReloaded]

Yea, he's an incredible actor.. I've went to his imdb to watch more of his stuff..

[@larryargent503]

Wait...WHAAAAAT?! This is the guy that played Chucky, Wormtongue and Billy Bibbit?! WHAAAT?! I'm still reeling from learning Tuvok was in Spaceballs...🤯🤯🤯

[@StormsparkPegasus]

@@larryargent503 We ain't found shit! But yeah...Voyager had a lot of great actors in it. But the show was still crap because most of the writing was absolutely awful. Even the best actors can only do so much with bad writing. If the writing had been as good as the acting talent, Voyager could've surpassed DS9.

[@johnmiller7682]

@@larryargent503 The ironic thing is that he basically played the same character on Babylon 5, a year earlier.

[@maisiesummers42]

I remember seeing his first appearance on the show and going... "Is that Brad Dourif?! Squeeeeeeeeeee...!!" Honestly, it was embarrassing how hard I fangirled.

[@Rometiklan]

One of the most haunting characters on the show. His quest to leave his old ways behind and his redemption arc was really well done. When I first saw the episode, I was ever really certain about his motivation. Yes, Suder was a psychopath...he killed without remose as a Maquis. The difference was, he was gutted when he was forced to kill the Kazon, even though they were the enemy and it was in defense of his ship and crew.

[@Grizabeebles]

Lon Suder made me do some research into psychopathy. It is estimated that 1 in every 100 people are psychopaths - rising to slightly above 1 in 6 in executive-level jobs. Thankfully, most don't have Suder's urge to kill. However, they are still stuck having to micromanage their behaviour without an emotion-driven conscience to guide them.

[@robertagu5533]

Too true we saw the one occasion where his ways were VERY helpful an useful too an yet doin this he basically dies when under the circumstances anyone else lacking his killer instinct and bloodthirsty nature mightve hesitated and PROBABLY failed, died, an left the crew forever stranded on that primitive planet.

[@angryatheist]

I disagree I’m quite partial to Janeway’s and Tom Paris’ amphibious children, they were both heartwarming and heartbreaking 💔 at the same time

[@reizayin]

@@Grizabeebles damn, what a black pill

[@alengunnery8311]

As a former soldier I actually understand suder very well , his character was portrayed in an very accurate way for the time ... sometimes when we spend most of our life surviving at all cost we have a hard time turning it off ...very well done I wish he lasted longer in the series

[@kaitlyn__L]

Me too :(

[@CrackedCandy]

He is an expensive actor. Quality has a price.

[@niedersacksen]

Aye mate, same here

[@orutakawatenga8820]

One of my greatest lessons from "nostalgia" Trek is that each of us has some of each character in our psyches, Suder is no different.

[@LoreReloaded]

I agree

[@orutakawatenga8820]

@@LoreReloaded I wager that we ot the closest thing to the Punisher in Trek, Suder was broken, but in the end his brokeness was the salvation of the Ship & her crew. May Suder be rembered as a hero in Roddenberrian Trek in the end.

[@worfsonofmogh1154]

Janeway and Sudor, both psychopaths. Both saved Voyager.

[@gavincross2902]

The actor who player Sutor has been around for decades and is a gem.

[@mjgarak115]

With this I set my mind in motion. With the juice of Sapoo I set my mind in motion ...

[@1GNUN0N]

He also played in LOTR as Grima Wormtongue and Piter de Vries in Dune from 1984

[@GonzoDonzo]

I believe he was also the scientist experimenting on xenomorphs in the third alien movie. His eyes are haunting

[@dm121984]

Brad Dourif, veteran actor, starred as Chuckie, Wormtongue, Peier, the head scientist in alien resurrection, and countless roles.

[@nedt8778]

Loved his turn as the mind wiped serial killer, who became Brother Edward, a kind monk in Babylon 5.

[@driver8sk]

One think I notice about Sudor is how the black eyes give other betazoid characters a warmth and honesty, but he's an inscrutable shark. Watching the clips, I couldn't tell you if it was a photography/lighting choice, or Brad Dourif's performance making me think that.

[@LordFoxxyFoxington]

Its a shame Suder died, imagine if he had been a regular cast member for seven years.

[@singletona082]

I know! Even if he was always in supervised roles? Imagine him interacting with Seven. Someone who knows what fighting those personal demons is like, an why giving into them is both the easiest and worst thing in the world to do

[@brefasdra]

I bet even he would have been promoted before Harry.

[@LordFoxxyFoxington]

@@brefasdra He was promoted after killing Harry.

[@GonzoDonzo]

Where do you go with him though? You cant just keep him around to do janeways dirty work. Hes in direct opposition to the federation ethos. He would fit in well with section 31 its just the wrong series.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Michael Piller put the work in setting him up so the other writers would have built-in story sources after he left. Jeri Taylor killed him off in her very first episode because she didn’t like that he was a murderer :/ his character’s entire purpose was to challenge the other characters’ ethics in various ways, challenge their isolation situation, and provide a built-in medium or long term redemption arc.

[@KADASUVA]

Suder's death genuinely made me tear up. He was a man haunted by the demons he could barely control and even at the end when he wrestled with these thoughts, he focused them in order to save Voyager. Brad Dourif, the actor who played Suder did an amazing job portraying the character.

[@xMRxZEROx]

Brilliant analysis. This has always been a favorite episode of mine. Mainly becuase Brad Dourif is just so incredible in it. He knew how to walk that line between man and the beast within. You could see the pain in his face, hear the tragedy in his voice, the sorrow in his movements. It was simply a perfect storm of great storytelling and amazing actors.

[@GeorgeFoot]

Agreed, it's just a shame about all the nonsense going on on the planet surface.

[@johnwang9914]

It should be noted that it wasn't Vulcan techniques to manage his emotions but a mind meld that shared the burden with Tuvok and though this allowed Suder a tenuous control, it was more than Tuvok could control hence the plot of the previous episodes and the crazed look in Tuvok's eyes during the clips in this video. The Suder arc was one of the best in Voyager and has similarities with the dark quickening arc in Highlander.

[@stormthrush37]

Agreed; the ending of his character arc was a truly great Star Trek moment.

[@DavBotsArcade]

Suder was a fucking legend. I wish his arc was longer.

[@happy18yu]

I felt for Suder as gave up on his dream of peace in order to save the crew that feared him , This both the saddest and hopeful story told on Voyager .

[@grifterman1]

What I always thought of was funny was the cross over of this actor playing the same character on Babylon 5 and Voyager. A serial killer seeking redemption and even has the flowers. :)

[@centurian318]

It’s fitting because the IP owners of Star Trek stole the premise of DS9 from JMS when he pitched B5 to Paramount.

[@jamesbizs]

@@centurian318 those shows are completely different. You can watch them both, and at no point feel like you’re rehashing the same points and plots.

[@centurian318]

@@jamesbizs Courts saw it otherwise

[@pizzedahff3127]

It is by will alone he sets his mind in motion, It is by the mind of Tuvok that thoughts acquire sanity, His eyes acquire blankness, The blankness becomes a warning, It is by will alone he sets his mind in motion.

[@Oatmealism]

I disagree that the doctor was out of character - Doctors in Star Trek, Especially the EMH, are multifaceted to the point that he has the ability to recognize motivators and can play into them to help a crewman overcome their trauma and realize the big picture. I think he realized that Sudor was having a traumatic episode in a dire circumstance where he needed Sudor to cooperate and not break down any time he is reminded of his trauma, he is motivated not for his freedom, but to help the ship, to prove himself to the crew, his freedom is just a byproduct of that. Showing doubt in the manner the EMH did, I feel, serves better to reinforce that "You are wrong about me, and I'll show you", giving Sudor that extra push to become the hero he was by the end of the episode.

[@nategraham6946]

Sad to see a character with such depth and development, just get killed off and never mentioned again. While he may have had some powerful demons, he fought them off as best as he could at the end, such redemption is beautiful.

[@steadyjumper3547]

Kinda makes sense character's don't want to dwell on such a dark character for too long. But it would have been cool to see some sort of tribute.

[@philly83]

Brad Dourif is such a great actor. He was great in this role.

[@solomonkane6442]

Didn't he play another psychotic serial killer 🤔 Charles Lee Ray aka chucky ?

[@philly83]

Yes

[@solomonkane6442]

@@philly83 thought so I think he was in that wildling film as well?

[@Guitarorpheo]

I am glad you are picking this character up. I was truly sad when Suder died. I thought he was a great character.

[@24thCenturyBuff]

Dourif deserved nothing less than an Emmy for his performance. Flawless.

[@javanknox8360]

One of the top story arcs in all of Trek. It was also an interesting look at how Starfleet handles those that don't "fit" in. Would Suder ever been welcome back into the fold fully if he hadn't died? Or would the Voyager crew be like Nog with Garak....and never turn their back on him again?

[@robertagu5533]

Alot the best heroes started out as the absolute worst of villains not to mention that he coulda been the secret warrior/killer in reserve if ever its needed. Which woulda come in handy in some of their arcs. Just arm him an any volunteers with him to the teeth let him know what he needs to an let him do his thing picking enemies off one by one an in small groups till their wiped out or the tide turns an they about ready to talk peace

[@ianrotten4453]

It was stories like this, is why Voyager was and is my favorite Trek show. That said, I truly wish that Brad would get a leading role. He's the man!

[@starsiegeplayer]

Does Chucky count as a leading role?

[@aprilv8829]

Voyager’s my favorite too. So many episodes that pull at the heartstrings.

[@TheFiddleFaddle]

Brad Dourif was one of the most fascinating guest stars on Voyager. I wish his story arc could have gone on longer, but at the same time, this truly was such a well done episode.

[@Thurston86]

Brad Dourif is such an amazing, underrated actor. Even though he only had a guest spot on Voyager, he made Suder one of my favourite characters on the show. The same can be said for his X-Files character Luther Boggs. He makes likeable characters out of sociopaths and murders, which is a testament to his skill as an actor.

[@JeanLucCaptain]

"I just want to do something for the ship!" Amazing how much MORE of a hypocrite this turns Janeway into later.

[@erichelvie8524]

For his short character arc, it was supremely well written. More over the performance of Brad Dourif was beyond top notch. He should have received an award for his performance or at minimum a nomination for an award.

[@davidioanhedges]

Brad Dourif acting at level 11/10 as always ...

[@vickisanders7368]

I believe that the odd camera angle in the scene with the doctor, is to cause the viewer to feel a bit unsettled. We are as unnerved as Sudor in the moment

[@nukeum9535]

This is the great thing about great actors. Brad dourif has played many 'strange' characters... Awsome stuff

[@VileMike]

Have to say it, great job breaking this one down. Reminds me of all the effort that goes into making an average use of tropes and plot into a great uses of tropes and plot.

[@marvelboy74]

Voyager had so many recurring characters for the first two seasons, but we lost 3 of them in one episode (Seska, Suder, Hogan) and some of them just disappeared almost altogether (Ensign Wildman and Lt Carey who eventually had an onscreen death). Vorik had some use but even he became ignored. They basically killed off any character that brought instability to the crew until they brought Seven on. This was a great story arc but it also marked the end of an era on Voyager.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Yeah :/

[@MrPingn]

What's amazing how well this character meshes with the one Brad Dourif played on Babylon 5. Both wonderfully acted (and written) characters that have a dark past and sought redemption in different ways. You really felt for them. That interaction his B5 character has with Delenn about wondering if he could face death knowing it was coming. Powerful stuff. Also I like the VHS effects.

[@MnemonicHack]

As a sociopath, I can (heh) empathize with him. I don't have an urge to kill, I know that I CAN kill and it wouldn't affect me like it does other people, but I don't feel a desire to. But I DO have compulsions and desires that are illegal and others that would get me in trouble if I did them. Theft, lawbreaking, lying, ect. Most people have that little feeling in the back of their minds saying "This is wrong, this hurts people, we shouldn't do this". For me, that voice simply says "don't get caught". Sometimes, I think normal people have it so easy. They're wired to be pro-social and want to fit in and do what society wills is right. The way I'm wired, I'm much more selfish. I don't inherently abide by the law because it's the right thing to do, I do it to avoid punishment, and I have to work to stop myself from just doing whatever interests me at the time. I have to fight against myself, as well as everyone else. I credit both my return to religion, and my study and practice of Stoicism, with helping me reign in the worst of myself. I'm doing this alone, because I can't trust people close enough to me to really know what I'm struggling with, so I backslide a lot. But I am trying to be a good person.

[@zachjones6944]

Hello fellow stoic.

[@Athonite]

As a man who struggles with anger issues, I sometimes wish I could be more disconnected from them. Interestingly, we each adopted faith (orthodox christianity here) and stocism to manage ourselves... I find that remarkable.

[@MnemonicHack]

@@Athonite Well, you definitely don't want to be a sociopath then. For many of us, the negative emotions are the ones we feel strongest. I very much know what being _that angry_ feels like. I was an atheist for a long time. In a way I still am: I've chosen to believe, instead of seeing proof and believing because of that. I want to believe that there's someone out there: not because I'm hoping for some reward (I don't really believe in any sort of heaven, or hell), but because I want to live up to an ideal I hope they think I can meet. I want to believe that I can prove I'm worthy of their love by mastering myself and abiding by their vision for me. Religion can be really useful for people, I've come to realize. Stoicism definitley so. I'm glad you've found something that's helping you. It is pretty awesome. (I notice I talked about myself alot; you'll have to forgive me. I'm only -human- a narcissistic sociopath *_shrugs shoulders_* )

[@lonnyyoung4285]

@@MnemonicHack you're not alone. I have to fight back the demons the most when my life seems to be going the best. When my life isn't going well, they are content to sit back and watch the chaos. But, when I'm not worrying about how to pay the mortgage or dealing with getting pulled in a thousand directions, they speak up. Never loudly, just suggestions. I was in therapy once and so badly wanted to bring up the subject, but didn't because I was worried about possibly getting committed for a time, so I didn't bring it up. Keep up the good fight. I expect to be fighting this until the end, but I don't intend to lose.

[@Warrentheo]

Lon Suders arc was always one of my favorites watching Voyager, but hearing you walk through it I actually find tears in my eyes...

[@stuartgrier5605]

Sudor was my absolutely favourite character in the whole of Voyager, if not the whole of StarTrek.

[@rabbitscooter]

Ah, I'm so glad I'm not the only who feels this way. Lon Suder's sacrifice, that whole arc, is some of my very favorite Star Trek. And Brad Dourif was just amazing.

[@madrabbit9007]

I was in my early 20's when this episode first aired and I didn't really connect then but now I find myself crying for him as I watch this video. A man fighting to suppress his demons and then forced to indulge them to save his ship and crew. Its heart breaking.

[@Vote4Drizzt]

This episode always was my favorite Suder always struck me as a broken man who fought his hardest against his demons and to help his crew. In the end his demons turned out to be the key to saving his crew, but at a great cost to him.

[@jaredcolon4535]

Honestly the best character in the show so much depth, levels, emotions and struggling with pain and the pain of his pleasure. Wish he didn't die u can see his struggle as he guns down kazons I'd often wonder how he would have been during many other episodes dealing with pain and death

[@oxgoth]

One of my favourite storylines in voyager. Thanks for this upload. 👍

[@THEONEANDONLYPEEHILL]

your video's are always well thought out in my opinion. my older brother loved this story line . he gave me almost this same presentation when voyager was airing lol. good work sir keep it up!

[@hymeringfamily9711]

Definitely one of the very best acting achievements of the whole Star Trek franchise! We all died in that room a little bit, with Lon Suder! In the end he was a true hero! And Brad Dourif proves once again that he is an amazing actor!

[@1Scimetar]

When you think about it, Lou Suder was probably always destined to go out in a Viking blaze of glory, as had he stayed in the Alpha Quadrant, it would have probably been a battalion of Jem'hadar as he sacrificed himself to cover his cells evacuation, as Michael Eddington did on Deep Space Nine.

[@TheOmegaRiddler]

I loved the fact they casted the voice actor of Chucky for Lon Suder.

[@FeedEgg]

One of the best redemption arcs ever, there's a reason i have every voyager ds9 and tng episode in a playlist on repeat next to me as i sleep.......it calms me down for some reason.

[@Mike1064ab]

Next time the dude needed to make sure everyone he shot was dead at least in the lower level. I know he was pressed for time but you always do that in any combat situation so you don’t get shot in the back like he did.

[@starsiegeplayer]

Problem is, you don't get a next time :(

[@dragonsword7370]

He probably practiced the double tap or confirmation shots back as a Maqui fighter but he was emotionally messed up the whole time being forced back into the role and playing John McClane in the voyager tubes. That kind of mental distraction kills people in a fight of course.

[@robertagu5533]

Yeah.. it was the one thing an experienced combat vet like Suder forgot. Anyone else PROBABLY wouldn't have made it. The fact he retook a large important room, ALONE, in what he knew was probably a suicide mission anyway an NONE of the enemy either managed to pin him down in an extended firefight to turn the tables OR get an alarm out either shows just how good Suder coulda been too.

[@dragonsword7370]

@@robertagu5533 just imagine when his headspace was clean and focused. When "the machine" could run unclouded I mean, but in that one man assault he was overwhelmed with the amount of killing. Afterwards of course. On top of the adrenaline rush and decompression that happens in combat would've been a lot for him.

[@zeus28frenzy]

Rule 4. Double tap

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

Fantastic, love those episodes, I've been trying to get people to pay attention to ANYTHING from them, plot, music, other elements. Thank you.

[@theusernameicoodfind]

I started rewatching voyager recently and it’s much better than I remember. I remember hating it after I finished ds9 and thinking all the episodes were just really boring but I decided to give season one a watch recently and I’m about halfway through really enjoying it.

[@Mr.Sequiro]

An amazing actor. In my childhood I best knew him from Child's Play, as Charles Lee Ray aka Chucky and of course years later as Grima from LotR. You just know you when you see him show up in something its about to get good.

[@dylangrizzle]

Suter was one of the coolest characters in Voyager imo. I didn't even know the Wormtongue actor was in the show til I watched the whole series last year.

[@davidtucker9498]

He's also in an episode of Babylon 5, where he also plays a (former) psychopath. One of the best episodes, imo, which is saying a lot for Babylon 5.

[@Dystopia1111]

@@davidtucker9498 The CGI hasn't aged very well, but I still love that show. Just so damn well written.

[@casbot71]

I always felt his death was a bit of a cop out though - a bit contrived. _What if alien medicine fixed his broken telepathy and that cured him of his psychopathic need to kill?_ A moral quandary and interesting possiblity that was later explored when the Doctor cured a condemned prisoner they were transporting after they rescued the crew and passengers of a prison ship _Repentance series 7 episode 13_ and agreed to carry them to the execution site (and wouldn't season 1 Janeway have issues over that) and it turned out that the reason that a particular murderer was a murderer was because of a brain injury that affected his species in that manner. The now moral and ethical prisoner is still executed for his crimes (that now horrify him, and he's no longer capable of committing). So what if later on a alien medical technique was able to restore the "disabled" telepathic centres of his mind and that also cures Lon Suder of his bloodlust? [Vidiian or Borg (if waiting for 4 years) or just the aliens of the week]. Then what do they do…? "bygones" about murdering a random crewmember, what about the dead crewmans friends? It also would raise some disturbing implications about the nature of the Betazoid mind, the nice if _slightly comical in their intrusive disregard for social norms_ telepaths [who are also "game breaking" in their power if Starfleet used them to their full abilities* - Betazoid security and intelligence operatives… just saying…] are *instinctively psychopathic killers without their telepathy.* [There is Real World evidence that certain brain injuries to the frontal lobe can make Humans more violent, even psychopathic - there are differences in brain activity on scans]. The reason that prepubescent Betazoids are not psychopathic is because they still have a latent psi sense to keep them 'sane'. *The issue with having a full Betazoid telepath is that it breaks a lot of plots that revolve around mystery and secrets, _Agatha Christie mysteries with Professor X_ would be very short episodes. Just change De'anna Troi from a half Betazoid empath to a full Betazoid telepath with the abilities (but not the personality) of her mother and then rewatch a bunch of episodes. If it's not _weird space phenomenon_ of the week then it's "The Duras family are in league with the Romulans and are planning on poisoning the Chancellor, oh and about the Kitimer defences…". So having a full telepath who can read anyone's mind (Kes had _that_ Nerf, but she did have the potential as shown when she got bodynapped) could not be implemented from a ongoing plot perspective ("ok, chuck that script out, next…"), but it does have a perfect if tragic resolution. Lon Suder gets cured, he becomes a full telepath and completely losses his bloodlust and is now a normal Betazoid, he's astonished at his new sense and the beauty and artistry of telepathy - experiencing the sensations. He's overwhelmed at first because it's brand new and he needs to learn to focus and train his ability, to make sense of the data. But… … His conscience is restored as well, and that's a torment [see Angel/Angelus from Buffy], being able to comprehend the actual feelings of having murdered innocent people (a really nasty possibility is that he did still have a telepathic sense at the time but was unable to process it, so once healed he can remember his victims thoughts - and he killed because when someone was dying their minds were so full of emotions that they could _almost break through_ Lon's psi blind block, he killed to try and experience *any* psychic connection). And the really dark possibility, he now has access to everyone's thoughts about him, and they all still think he's a psycho killer and are constantly on edge and hate him. Voyager's crew can't process that he is a _completely different man,_ that to use the example from Buffy; He's Angel, not Angelus. *And so Lon Suder kills himself.* By curing him and trying to give him piece, they instead condemn him to so much torment that he finds suicide the comforting option. _And perhaps their own thoughts about him are partially to blame._ [There's always the nice cop out that he instead stays with a nice telepathic race they find on their way, perhaps even the ones that cure him, or he finds a group he can help and who don't have the experience of him as the murder addict. I'm looking at you Kes send off] But it would be a beautifully disturbing end if Voyager's crew are left unsure whether it's his restored conscience or _their own thoughts about him_ that made Lon Suder take his own life. Perhaps he leaves a suicide note that Tuvok finds and destroys, for the good of the mental health of the crew - a Vulcans perspective on the fragility *and failings* of Human emotions.

[@fatalshore5068]

That....is a great idea but no way Voyager could of done something that heavy. Today sure but not in the 90's.

[@robertagu5533]

Thing is, not everyone would think that... many would see him largely redeemed himself an made sure he knew it having impressively singlehandedly retook the ship an saved them all. Perhaps having gone on to duplicate the process any number of times too. Since the kazons here are STUPID AF for NOT havin enough sense to monitor internal alarms an systems for shootouts which plenty of future story arcs show they can do when systems alert Bridge crew of such.. even if they DIDN'T understand systems yet to tell an interpret what they saw thorough sweeps of practically EVERYTHING big enough for someone to hide mightve an probably woulda nabbed Suter too. Just bad guys also being BAD at security too. Allowing for Suter to pull a Rambo/John Wick and singlehandedly kick they asses... an now i want to rewatch this episode. .

[@zedinperil4748]

I love this what if headcanon. Would have been an excellent premise for an episode.

[@nitehawk86]

You are describing the character Brad Dourif played on Babylon 5. Brother Edward. He was a serial killer that was sentenced to "mind erasure" by telepathy. He became a monk and a good person. But families of the victims found out and paid a telepath to undo some of it, which tortured him greatly. A fantastically nuanced episode and a brilliant performance by Dourif.

[@mikepez]

A Sunday upload, thank you Lore for saving my awful weekend!!

[@davidhughmiller]

At least he wasn’t “an idiot”. This captain gave a damn about all members of her crew.

[@jasonstephens6109]

Glad you made this video. This is one of my favorite episodes.

[@kevinshepardson1628]

I'd love to see your take on the scene from near the beginning of the TNG S7 episode "Journey's End", where Admiral Nechayev - up to this point the hardass whose job it seems to be to deliver bad news and worse orders - admits to Picard that she made all the same arguments he's making. Personally, I'd say that scene/episode may well do a better job of conveying DS9's theme of "it's easy to be an angel in paradise" than many DS9 episodes - it shows Starfleet trying to choose the lesser of two evils, not liking any of their options, and being clearly divided over what to do.

[@RRW359]

How about not forcing your colonists to leave and not telling them they have the option to stay until the last minute? Or maybe even not letting colonists still be citizens in the first place after they invaded a disputed planet.

[@ScaryBaldMan]

Great video! Very well done. Basics 1 & 2 is one of my favorite Voyager episodes, and Brad Dourif was just outstanding in the role. It truly hurt when he was killed.

[@douglasmcneil8413]

Brad Dourif Did a fantastic job in the roll. He has a powerful screen presence in everything I've seen him in from Coocoos nest to Dune. Just an amazing actor.

[@Crazy-Chicken-Media]

Oh man, I love it when you do this kind of video, keep it up I'll keep watching.

[@donovanbradford8231]

a wonderful break down of all aspects of film both, camera work, acting, writing, directing, and scoring. A very wonderful time.

[@jimbeam4736]

Fantastic video, I had forgotten about this episode. That was one of the best...

[@keithwilliams744]

This was one of the sections of the show that was not only well acted but extremely well written.

[@mikedeck8381]

My problem with this character is that his death was too convenient. If he had survived figuring out what do with him would've been difficult for Janeway and the crew.

[@Jinx7red]

00:16 100% agreed!!! Fantastic character story arc and one hell of an actor! One of my favorite episodes.

[@MedalionDS9]

I loved Suder, his ep with Tuvok swapping emotions and violent thoughts was one of my fave eps of the earlier seasons

[@blackdog6969]

An absolute great character. Not only the conflict in the stories with him but the character's internal conflicts are some damn fine writing. Props to Lore for the filmmaking explainations too. Shows a lot more than many would consciously pick up on and gives insight into other movies and shows too

[@johnnyblaze2716]

Wow. Very powerful my friend. Great episode. 👏👏👏

[@cerahjoselet7423]

Spectacular video essay! My read was that his powerful violence never stopped being something he had to wrestle down to be someone he could live with being, but just as often as it was his strength it would leave him abandoned to its consequences and his unbreakable embrace of it. Scared and tired. Oh, and that from-the-ground-up shot at both of them as the Doctor promises all his help struck me as showing them both in an unapologetically heroic light. I always had some trouble (my own experiential biases as a girl who's seen shit) really looking at the Suder story, but you put it in a clearer light than I was able to watch the episode in! Well done. :-)

[@FatLingon]

Another chillingly great scene (because of the acting) in that episode, is when Tuvoc gets his brain "rebooted" in sickbay.

[@mind4lease554]

Lore, great video as always. I said in your livestream that we shouted you out in our podcast (with Jeff Holiday on World Of Holiday KZbin channel [EJECT THE CORE]) however it was one of our commentary tracks: BUT we did for real shout you out in the episode we just recorded today, as well as this video specifically. Congrats on another great video and please keep up the fantastic content!!!

[@Mogo-tb3yi]

Just phenomenal content as ever!

[@literatiglee]

Thanks for this -- always thought this episode was among the most brilliant in Voyager. Brad Dourif is an Oscar Winning actor -- I think he won Best Supporting Actor in "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Interesting to note that Louise Fletcher, another award-winning actor in the same movie was a long-running side character in DS9.

[@davidnemoseck9007]

Loving these breakdowns.

[@Zurpanik]

This was brilliant and wonderful. Thank you.

[@dkronikmusic]

Beautifully done sir. Bravo

[@Michael-di6ss]

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of Sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind in motion."

[@bumbleguppy]

I never noticed before, but the way Suder handled the phaser rifle, not held to the shoulder like it's usually held. It seems to lend a feeling of intimacy and familiarity with the weapon beyond training or duty. Interesting.

[@robertagu5533]

He was trained an lent himself naturally to fighting an warfare. Not just in how to hold it notice at the end he took a sec to think bout how each enemy would react an probably even listened an watched for where they'd be an how many there was... that an he probably shot at everything that moved too. Even for him though he SHOULDA been extra careful an made sure ALL of them was dead or incapable of shooting anymore given the extreme circumstances an stakes he was in. Its the ONLY mistake he made, beautifully well written, if more modern shows these days did that there'd be NO questions over the current franchises.. as this latest Discovery is VERY hit an miss I hear.

[@warrenreid6109]

This video is fking brilliant. I love videos that tell about the writing and methodology. I hope to see more from you. Thanks.

[@1stmaterayleigh500]

Great analyzing😊👍 awesome choice of scene

[@bananahbabe2998]

I love Lon Suder, he was one of my favourite characters and stories told in Voyager! This was a really interesting video!! 😁

[@chriscataldo3688]

Brilliant commentary! Thank you!

[@thumbwarriordx]

Tuvok later: Oops I got his Katra Tuder time.

[@Thkaal]

The actor always seems to play these kinds of characters. In B5, he played a sociopath who was mindwiped and the families of his victims try to make him remember.

[@ChauncyFatsack]

Thank you lore! I love this!

[@NoNameBrandR4]

Great video. One of the great character arcs in Star Trek.

[@skyfinger9319]

The crew of Voyager did lon suder a major disservice when the forgot to give him a Good Guy doll so Suder could revive himself

[@BBCKT]

Very well done. I feel for Suder and his struggles.

[@jamp12008]

I love the VHS effect 👍

[@jatmo6991]

Damn. I felt this. Nice video.

[@thanqualthehighseer]

I think it says a lot about Starfleet and the federation perceive mental illness, how many suders are pushed outside federation space lost and alone, treated as monsters and madmen because they don't or can't live in the ' idealistic ' federation society image. I'm actually surprised Janeway didn't put Suder in suspended animation it would have minimised the threat and eased the strain on feeding someone that 's not contributing to the ship.

[@danielseelye6005]

It still would've taken power to run the cryotube, and he wouldn't have the chance to contribute to the ship and crew.

[@Seven35888]

I wonder if Borg tech would’ve been able to “fix” his psychopathy? The episode where that alien man was on trial for murder, Seven’s nanoprobes were able to generate lost pathways in his brain that managed to cure the violent tendencies he had. Maybe this same sort of approach or something similar with nanoprobes could’ve helped Suder?

[@tequilamockingbird758]

Another great video

[@kellypaws]

It was a good episode. The theme being heavily that we all have many facets to our personality, many drivers, many 'lines that can be crossed'. Eve for Star Trek, it reached for some deep introspection.