Ancient City Near Cumorah? (Bluff Point Stoneworks, NY)

[@angelalewis3645]

It’s a GREAT defensive location!

[@joshradson2649]

There are 5 reasons why I believe haplogroup X is not Nephites, and may be Jaredites: 1. Kennewick man is from about 2000 BC give or take. This would be outside the time frame of Lehi's arrival in 600 BC. Although you did suggest the water in the soil could contaminate these results. 2. Haplogroup X2a and X2g are found among the natives highest in the Ojibwe, but X2e is found also in the Altai region. This indicates a possible connection to Asians and Jaredites with X2g and X2e due to their genetic proximity. 3. The Ojibwe have higher concentrations of blood type O than the natives in the SE USA, and you noted that this rare O blood type is found in Kuwait and the Altai region. This could connect the Jaredites to originally occupying the Kuwait area at one time and also travelling over Asia. Kuwait is the ancient area of Sumerians and Mesopotamia and this would possibly be pre-Hebrew times. 4. Haplogroup X is common among the Druze in the MIddle East, but their religion origin appears different than Hebrews. This suggests a different place of origin than the Hebrews, unless the Druze converted at one time to their religion today. 5. It is suggested Lehi travelled by sea around Arabia. It is suggested that the Jaredites travelled by land across Asia then by sea since the book of Ether explains the Jaredites being many years in the wilderness and that "they should go forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been" and "....behold, it came to pass that the Lord did bring Jared and his brethren forth even to that great sea which divideth the lands."

[@Lamanitehistory]

Interesting thoughts. On Kennewick Man, when I referred to some testing that gave dates 2000+ BP (not BC), that is carbon testing terminology that means 2000+ years "before present" measured back from 1950 AD. So that results in dates before 50 BC and does fit the Nephites. Some DNA testing of Hopewell sites from Nephite timeframes did produce some Haplogroup X as well, so I'm convinced it's Nephite instead of Jaredite. However, the questions about Kennewick Man's carbon dating (including older dates) leave open the possibility of him as a Jaredite. So I am happy to see your investigation of that idea.

[@joshradson2649]

@@Lamanitehistory Thank you for being considerate and clarifying that. I thought it meant BC. So that does leave the possibility they could be Nephites. I did watch some videos of Chief Midega on KZbin and I could see him being either Jaredite or from Lehi's group. He is from Algonquin speaking tribes. I understand this can be a sensitive topic for many, especially the Native America people. I have looked at some photos from 19th century Natives and it does seem clear that Natives in the Southeast come from diffferent genetic stock than the Northeast. The Ojibwe look taller with full heads of hair (like Chief Midega) while the Southeast natives look possibly more like people that live around the Mediterranean. There is a Puerto Rico study that leaves open the possibility of even more haplogroups beyond X (which X is confirmed in 25% of Ojibwe). Some of the extra haplogroups are H2, HV2, and U5 which center around the Meditteranean. And even the possibility of African DNA. Did the African DNA come with Lehites though or Jaredites? That is why this can be confusing.

[@brucelloyd7496]

If you start with faulty assumptions, your conclusions will be faulty. I'm not saying that everything you said is wrong, but some of it is. 1. The Jaredites and Mulekites crossed the Atlantic and went down the St. Lawrence Seaway. The Lehites departed from Oman and sailed down the east side of Africa and around the southern tip of Africa and then north across the Atlantic to northern FL area which has the oldest Hopwell sites. 2. The Jaredites went northward from Mesopotamia through the Valley of Nimrod. Their progress was blocked by the Paratethys Sea. This megalake - the largest lake in Earth's history - covered an area greater than the size of today's Mediterranean Sea. It was left over from Noah's flood. This impediment explains why the Jaredites had to build barges the first time. After crossing this megalake, the Jaredites continued their journey by walking ***west*** to the Atlantic. They left traces of their civilization across western Europe and Great Britian in what we become known as the Beaker people. They built henges in ancient western Europe and ancient America. 3. The Ojibwe have started to speak out in the last 6 months and they know the Book of Mormon is true. 4. After Coriantumr arrived at the hill Ramah (same hill as Cumorah), fighting ceased for 4 years so all of the Jaredites could be gathered for the final battles. Obviously, they were scattered all over the Western Hemisphere. This is ABSOLUTE proof that the Book of Mormon did NOT happen in a 200x500-mile area of Mesoamerica at the Isthmus of Tehuantepec. If they all lived in this area as the scholars claim, it would only take 2 or 3 weeks to gather. Also, how could the Nephites and Mulekites live in a confined space and not be discovered for 400 years! Some Jaredites obviously refused to join the final battles. Some of these large Jaredite remnant people encountered the Mulekites and Nephites per Nibley. Think of Kishkumen, Nehor, and Korihor.

[@joshradson2649]

@@brucelloyd7496 If I can add some ideas that may add insight: 1. Haplogroup X could have originated in the West of the USA. A fascinating research paper titled "The Structure of Diversity within New World Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroups" says the following: "This is consistent with the hypothesis that haplogroup X was first introduced to the eastern part of North America by Algonquians emigrating from northwestern North America" (Malhi et al. 2001; Schultz et al. 2001). The age and location of Kennewick man in Washington state, USA also seems to suggest this. There is also haplogroup X among the Tano (Pueblo tribes in New Mexico) and Navajo (by the 4 corners) in the SW USA with possibly original genetic mutations (i.e. the first settlers). 2. The Jaredites did travel over some seas and lakes before crossing the ocean as indicated in Ether 2:6. But there is no indication on the direction, whether East or West. If anything, they more likely went East because it indicates in Ether 6:5 "And it came to pass that the Lord God caused that there should be a furious wind blow upon the face of the waters, towards the promised land". A stronger wind is necessary to cross the Pacific than the Atlantic. Also, a large part of DNA on the American continents is Asian, so this is another clue. 3. We can consider that the Ojibwe could be either Lamanites or Jaredites until more is known, or even a mix. This is great news that they are accepting the Book of Mormon. There are promises pertaining to their people since the story is about them as well. 4. The Jaredite battles took about 8 years according to my reading of the Book of Ether, including the 4 years at the last battle which you mention. It is suggested that this gathering wasn't necessarily for time to travel across the "face of the land", but because they needed preparation time and were extremely battle weary. There are at least 2 times where Coriantumr offers truce out of desperation and is rebuffed both times. Also, keep in mind that "face of the land" implies a portion of the earth, as looking at a globe of planet earth you would see only an area of say 700x700 miles. If you want to consider good guesses for where the Book of Mormon took place, the Western coasts of the USA by California and Oregon would be my first pick. Maybe even Baja, Mexico.

[@csluau5913]

@@joshradson2649 I think you might be on the right track there. I’m working on this right now. There is quite a bit of evidence that might support your idea, and I have been speaking with other people who also believe this is true, but there are some amendments and tweaking that are required for the ideas to be more perfectly aligned with the scriptures. There’s actually quite a bit of leeway given in the scripture, considering it has been summarized and abridged. Looking at the DNA, but also looking at a lot of other things that have been left behind become clues that build up a trail which leads to a larger body of connected evidence scattered across a number of islands and continents. Keep studying.

[@csluau5913]

You know, going back now and looking at this and looking at the evidence that was talked about and the descriptions that were given I am more and more convinced that I have a pretty good idea who constructed that settlement. Unfortunately, without any evidence left still, and it would be hard to say for sure, but if there were large worked stones in place then I’m pretty certain About the time it would’ve been built or at least the people who built it. I do not believe it was the Nephites.

[@bestaircraftdeal]

It's always interesting to hear folks discount the book of Mormon as a comic book or fictional stories when they've never opened it or read it nor spent the time to study its contents. Those are the most ignorant opinions of folks that are quick to judge without having the slightest idea of anything. I'd like to hear their opinion on other religious books that have historical significance or its just the Church of Jesus Christ that has the privilege of been counted as a joke. ?

[@TheSaintelias]

If only we had a prophet who could tell us where the founding scripture took place. Past prophets have said but the church denies those accounts as being the real place. 😢

[@rconger24]

Matthew 10: 40

[@rlbrown1009]

I never knew there was a Jerusalem New York.

[@Thehaystack7999]

Excellent thank you!

[@lukegraven7839]

The BoM is a comic book guys and gals. It’s fictional. Please 🙏 please 🙏 please 🙏 stop w this ‘it’s historical ‘ nonsense.

[@roseredm6663]

If you don't like such videos don't watch them

[@lukegraven7839]

@@roseredm6663 if you were an adult putting out videos saying Santa Claus is real and his flying reindeer are also real and 'historical' wouldn't you want someone to clue you in? Same concept here.

[@caseykaelin9430]

​​@@lukegraven7839It would be great to be clued in about Santa Claus and his reindeer. If the guy giving the clues actually knew what he was talking about.

[@rconger24]

In terms of The Holy Spirit The Book of Mormon is super saturated. And it testifies of a central concept of Christianity , that is The Resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon is true. Go and read it for yourself!