Ancient Naval Artillery - We will rock you!

This week a special guest is here to educate us on the many forms of ancient naval artillery from the Greco-Roman era.
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[@Drachinifel]

Pinned post for Q&A :)

[@zaquaholic]

Drachinifel hypothetically, if you had a small force of three ships of the line similar to HMS Victory, how many frigates like the USS Constitution would it take to bring down such a force? And what would your tactics be if you were on the American side and if you were on the British side?

[@russianbear0027]

how does one refloat a ship? does it need to still be above the water or can a fully submerged ship be refloated and put back in service? in general what's the time limit on such operations before the water has done too much damage? (presumably this would vary with materials and when the ship was built) thanks for your time

[@shadowwarriorshockwave3281]

Drachinifel could you cover the USS Sphinx also know as the Kotetsu

[@samadams2203]

What if the United States decided that battleships were obsolete and opted to not build the South Dakotas, North Carolinas and Iowas and instead fast-tracked production of Essex class carriers? Does the war in the Pacific change significantly? Assuming the war is still won, on what ship is the Japanese surrender signed on?

[@gumimalac]

What function do those diagonal external rails serve on predrednought to ~ww1 era ships that go from the gunwale to waterline along the hull. For example the ones clearly visible on most pictures of HMS Dreadnought

[@JaneCobbsHat]

"I am tired of those mother****ing snakes on this mother****ing trireme" ~ Captain Samuelus Jacsonus Africanus

[@davemacnicol8404]

"cobra starship on harpsichords in the background"

[@CharlesYuditsky]

Did you hear about the sequel, "Moose on a truck"

[@davemacnicol8404]

@@CharlesYuditsky moose in a truck was better. They focused on the internal monologue of the moose this time instead of the truck.

[@CharlesYuditsky]

@@davemacnicol8404 holy shlit a reply???

[@jamesmaddison4546]

​@@CharlesYuditskypeople are still here😅

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Roman naval tactics: Artillery terrible? Then turn the naval battle into a land battle.

[@CSSVirginia]

Wonder what the Carthaginians thought when they encountered the corvus for the 1st time?

[@weldonwin]

@@CSSVirginia There is a story that is likely apocryphal, but I like to imagine its true. During the Roman siege of Syracuse, the legendary Greek genius Archimedes was living in the city and turned his rather considerable brain power to defending it. This involved a whole array of devices he invented, which ranged from Archimedes' claw (A giant crane and grapple that capsized ships), a machine to grab and shake apart ships that tried to pull up to the docks and rather famously (Though sadly rater mythicaly) using focused sunlight to create the Archimedes Deathray. It got so bad, that according to legend, all it took was a Roman sailor looking up and thinking he saw an old man on the city walls and they would start screaming in terror "Look Out! Archimedes is aiming one of his machines at us!" And they start bailing out in a panic.

[@2710cruiser]

Archimedes wunderwaffen

[@weldonwin]

@@2710cruiser Sadly, the Romans would take Syracuse and during the following sack of the city, Archimedes was straight up murdered. According to legend, he was in his study working on something when a Roman soldier came in. Being deep in thought, Archimedes told him to wait and he'd get to him in a minute. The soldier, without a word, just ran him through from behind, killing him instantly and leaving him there at his desk, with blood covering the pages Archimedes had been working on. Which serves as rather an apt metaphor for the mindless cruelty and spite of war.

[@Elios0000]

ironically Archimedes was to be taken alive from reports found.... yeah im guessing that soldiers commander was NOT happy

[@Kevin_Kennelly]

11:28 "I've got a scale model trebuchet that's about 3, 4 foot long. About 4 foot high." WHO ELSE WANTS TO SEE THIS? IN ACTION!!!

[@joshuapasquale11]

Yes

[@crobert79]

hasn't everyone got one of these?

[@insignificantgnat9334]

@@crobert79 I built one for a school project (though I cheated and used PVC not lumber).

[@Assassinus2]

crobert79 I’ve got a scaled-down ballista. I am of the decided opinion that everyone should have a scale model of some sort of mechanical artillery (single or double-armed torsion engine, counterweight trebuchet.)

[@christopherconard2831]

Elevation increases range, so maybe from his roof. During lockdown the streets should be mostly deserted.

[@theoreticallyspeaking3377]

The Virgin Harpoon Over the Horizon Missile vs the Chad Rock

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

The Virgin Harpoon anti-ship missile vs the Chad actual harpoon ship boarding & immobilising device.

[@dfwai7589]

@@arkadeepkundu4729 Chad Rock vs Thad rough coast line

[@Hiraeth-zq8ze]

@Joel Atwater Kamikaze check

[@EriIaz]

The Virgin P-700 Granit vs the CHAD Actual Granite

[@billrich9722]

Yep. That’s a meme.

[@gim9951]

Me:The 2nd Pacific Fleet wants their boarding snakes back. (The Greek or Romans, I forgot who): flings snakes to the fleet. The 2nd Pacific Fleet: 'Insert a lot of panic and gunfire here'. The Kamchatka: Ahh! Torpedo boats controlled by snakes!

[@jackandersen1262]

Don’t forget the Aurora with her boarding snakes.

[@DoobyDubNCG]

the original sidewinder missile platform!

[@theatagamer90]

B O R D I N G S N A K E S

[@NintendoSonic101]

They'd still have a better chance of actually hitting the target than Kamchatka

[@KRDecade2009]

Miguel Ayuban maybe the real second pacific fleet were the friends we made along the way. Also those Japanese torpedo boats were sailed by snakes!

[@Timrath]

For anyone interested in what catapults have to do with shields: The Greek word for catapult is καταπέλτης (catapeltes). It consists of the preposition "kata", meaning "against", and the noun "pelte" (πέλτη), which was a crescent-shaped shield used by light infantry. The bearers of such shields were called peltastai (or peltasts in English). Incidentally, the heavy infantry was also named after the shields they bore: Hoplites derives from hoplon, which was a large round shield.

[@hoggypare7629]

Hello, a historian of antiquity here. It was a very interesting watch. I would like however to clear up some misconceptions that appeared over the course of the video. Those minor mistakes do not detract in any way from mr. Dean's presentation, however they may affect our understanding of what role the artillery played in the developement of naval warfare and historical dynamics in general. 1) The Romans never used a specialized marine troops - this is not entirely true. In the 4/5th century Notitia Dignitatum (list of offices and forces in the Empire) there are 6 units of 'Praefecti classi et navium' being named, which mean about 1800-3000 men aboard the ships of the danubian river flotilla. Those are not neccessarily fully fledged 'marines', but still a specialized force trained for water-borne operations, and, the Romans did not have much use for the navy at the point when the document was being written (the Vandals did not establish their naval power then yet). Subsequently, in 533 when the Eastern Rome tried to reconquer Africa from the Vandals, Procopius of Ceasarea mentions warships (dromons) escorting the transport fleet with about 2000 marines on board. Since I do not specialize in earlier times, I cannot confirm whether a similar practice was the case in earlier times of the top of my head, but it would not surprise me. 2) The use of artillery declined after the so-called 'crisis of the 3rd century' - To some extent, yes, but it never disappeared from the battlefield. The battle of Frigidus in 394 saw an extensive use of artillery engines in the field battle. I also recall the use of artillery in the defense of Rome by the Eastern Roman troops of Belisarius as late as 537-538. This is land based, but the Byzantines also extensively used artillery in naval combat. Besides the famous greek fire (as I don't know if huge flamethrowers classify as artillery strictly speaking), here is what the 9/10th century military manual (Taktika of Leo VI) says about naval artillery - "On the largest dromons erect the so-called wooden castles with their wall of planks somewhere around the middle of the mast. From these our men will shoot millstones or heavy pieces of iron such as those shaped like swords. These will either break up the enemy ship or, landing with great force, crush those on whom they fall. The men may also hurl other things capable of setting the enemy ships on fire or of killing the troops on board." Artillery is not mentioned explicitly, but the 'millstones' and 'pieces of iron capable of breaking ships' suggest something more than a very strong throwing arm. As You see, the technology of naval artillery was not forgotten. It was just a solution to a specific problem. It however required that one builds big warships, which are expensive to build and maintain and equip the with artillery pieces that are also expensive to build and maintain. And if there is no one really to shoot at, it should not be a surprise that the Roman navy transformed into a more flexible and efficient force with smaller vessels that could double as transport craft. Only the emergence of new sea powers (first Vandals, then Arabs, Normans and Slavs) renewed the need for specialized warships that would give an edge over the opposition. The knowledge of how to solve Your problems with a rock that moves at high velocities was not forgotten, neither in Rome nor in Byzantium, it just was not always the most optimal and efficent solution.

[@DangerTurtle91]

L

[@DangerTurtle91]

L

[@advorak8529]

But is the question about the solution of fast and heavy rock being suboptimal? Or the capability to do so is gone … like a ship sunk by these rocks, with just a few planks and horrible memories sticking around?

[@josdelijster4505]

thank you

[@Pentagathusosaurus]

Thank you

[@Big_E_Soul_Fragment]

Coming soon in World of Warships: New Tier 0.0001 rock-throwing trireme

[@silviachristandl5874]

Any AP shell you fire at it would overpen so hard

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

Nope, Tier 0.0001 is the Floaty Log. Pine as regular, oak as premium.

[@Tass-h7t]

at this point even HE would overpen

[@weldonwin]

Probably be next year's April Fool event

[@2710cruiser]

And CVs are floating logs with pigeons that drop shit on you 🤣

[@willrogers3793]

29:04 I see the French inclination towards ships that are best described as “F***ing Weird” predates the existence of France. Because of course it does.

[@vaclav_fejt]

Not just ships. In military rifles, the motto is "Nobody copies the French - and the French copy no-one."

[@musaran2]

This one has strange "One Piece" vibes.

[@marhawkman303]

@@vaclav_fejt yeah, I paused the video at 30:00 when he said "Gaul".... yeah... today that region has a less cool name :p

[@SultanOfAwesomeness]

Time to get absolutely stoned.

[@stanthology]

"Everybody must get stoned" Bob Dylan.

[@TheRWS96]

Your avatar is realy funny in the context of the video and comment :)

[@afancypirate7754]

My god, I see you everywhere dafuq

[@Legitpenguins99]

@@afancypirate7754 i see him everywhere on 40k videos

[@polygondwanaland8390]

GET THESE MOTHERFUCKING SNAKES OFF MY MOTHERFUCKING QUATRIEME

[@notbobrosss3670]

Love the guest speakers knowledge and passion on the topic. His repeated and continuous dramatic pauses not so much.

[@min_maximilian]

I agree, it was a terible video.

[@nigelsmith7366]

He is a terrible speaker lol

[@docstockandbarrel]

You mean the dramatic pauses between each word?

[@isthatrubble]

I don't think they were *dramatic* pauses. he sounded like he was out of breath or suppressing coughs a lot of the time. I don't like it either, but he sounded like he was doing his best - not everyone is a great public speaker, even with a lot of practice.

[@darrellsmith4204]

48:30 Nothing stirred my soul quite as much as listening to a Mathematician and an Engineer discussing the use of tables, cube roots and ancient tax records.. lol

[@thebronzegoose9169]

Back in the era when warfare was civilised. Where roads were thrown a the enemy

[@ShadrachVS1]

Tis not combat, it is aggressive paving!

[@molybdaen11]

And every enemy stand before you in a straight line, i know.

[@spider0804]

Warfare has never been and never will be civilized. Any advantage will be used no matter how underhanded.

[@iwasphone7933]

Is this a shitpost?

[@onelyone6976]

The Bronze Goose It might seem that way, but in reality warfare has never been civilised

[@Corn-y3u]

I would love to see a video about Admiral Yi of Korea, using turtle ships against the Imperial Japanese during the 1500's. The west largely ignores eastern naval technology prior to the late 1800's.

[@Paveway-chan]

The martial lord of loyalty!

[@cactusman1771]

We all know admiral Yi had cheats enabled. He almost never lost a ship in battle. Also turtle ship OP.

[@aaronbasham6554]

@@Paveway-chan yes yes yes yes yes. We need more Admiral Yi, he's potentially the best naval commander in history

[@josepetersen7112]

Flashbacks to age if empires 2, anyone?

I think that's mostly because it was a one-time thing before Korea sank back into mediocrity. Which I suppose does make sense if for most of history your geopolitics have been limited to having angry island neighbours too busy banzaing eachother to care about you and a neighbour so big that any notion of geopolitical rivalry is rendered stupid. And it's not like hunting bandits or pirates makes for a massive motive of military innovation. Which seems a common theme in east Asia, which China not innovating past late medieval technology and shunning the rest, and Japan remaining backwards for most of history, refusing metallurgy and refusing to improve or change the matchlock muskets they once imported and adopted.

[@williamoldaker5348]

So my uncle died recently and he made catapults and ballistas. I was raised around the SCA. Old lesson are taught from them. It was a nice experience.

[@roryhoven6900]

A few years ago the police confiscated a ballista i made with a friend. For no reason at all. On a completely unrelated note i payed market price for a full beef cow a week before the cops took the ballista.

[@SusCalvin]

@@roryhoven6900 Some SCA people here made a rock thrower. They didn't get permission to fire the thing near the city, and worried that it could break apart.

[@arkadeepkundu4729]

26:28 "There was supposedly one Greek navy that loaded their stone-thrower with ceramic pots filled with venomous snakes" Drach: _snorts_ *Hehe* _giggles_

[@prjndigo]

Something to keep in mind... in an era of earliest sail and rowing the simple act of adding ballast to an enemy vessel is a form of combat.

[@karlvongazenberg8398]

Men, I have good news and bad news. The good one, is that everyone gets double metaxa ration tonight. The bad one, is that the captain wants to waterski.

[@robertf3479]

Wow! The timing of this unexpected video is uncanny Drach. I'm an 'amateur' author (I write for my own pleasure) working on a fantasy story. Today's subject is providing me with real world information I didn't have and was just filling in with guesswork. Galleys, catapults and ballistas make up a small but important part of the story. Thank you very much. I pray you, your guest and your families stay safe.

[@orzorzelski1142]

You can bet that the first use of naval artillery made a huge impact.

[@jamesharris4695]

What went through the soldiers head when he first saw artillery? The rock

[@patrickjames8050]

I so enjoyed the discussion and was truly impressed by Mr Dean's knowledge and presentation. Pacing and confidence was evident throughout. Bravo Zulu!

[@luisnunes2010]

Doing complex mathematics... in ROMAN NUMERALS!... My mind boggles.

[@EdMcF1]

XactLy.

[@luisnunes2010]

@@vemundr9263 They were way ahead on geometry and had something else we don't know about, that the Anthekitera mechanism proves existed, that Newton and Leibnitz both said they had to have, but we have no idea what. Still, do you know how clunky those numerals are just to write?

[@sotros1]

Yeah, the numerals were pretty clunky. But they were used mainly for dates on monumental inscriptions, distances on roadside mile markers and so on. It is possible to do multiplication and even long division with them, but for actual calculations the Romans, the Greeks and many other ancient peoples used "counting boards", similar to abacuses. The counting boards had a series of parallel grooves in which small pebbles were manipulated to perform addition and subtraction directly. Multiplication and division were a bit more complicated, but still doable. The Latin word for pebble is "calculus". The method of reckoning was absorbed into the language itself, and by descent, into most modern European languages.

[@egoalter1276]

Probably some primitive approximate form of diferential calculus. They lacked a geometeic conception of functions, but they did know of series, and their number theory was primarily derived from geometry, so it is not unthinkable they had some approximate of the Descartes coordinate notation.

[@toddwebb7521]

I'm tired of these mfing snakes on my mfing ship

[@090giver090]

Ego sum taedeum a has cacatis serpentes meam cacatem navem :)

[@toddwebb7521]

@@090giver090 I see what you did there

[@istvansipos9940]

- gimme a purple lightsaber and I'll handle them. - no no no no no. jedi lightsabers come in green or blue. - sure. but I wanna purple one.

[@zaquaholic]

I’m glad you collaborated with this guy. I really enjoyed his work in the Anit-Trekker channel. He does great work.

[@santiago5388]

This episode is brought to you by the AC/DC song "Like a Rock" Yes, they have a song about a rock XD

[@theleva7]

Dammit! Now all that's left is to make a pun with the Rolling Stones.

[@Thirdbase9]

I thought Queen was sponsoring the episode. We Will Rock You!

[@Thirdbase9]

Here I am. Rock you like a hurricane.

[@jasonzhang1333]

Just what I need when I have an engineering assignment about trebuchets

[@harryrcarmichael]

Great episode - as an aside - in market research, in the US, it was determined that the best name to use was William Dean, I must have called thousands of people and introduced myself as WIlliam Dean.

[@admiraltiberius1989]

Absolutely fantastic video and that title is absolutely a Dad level joke. Just imagine a ship with a artillery piece that can throw a telephone pole at you, that is absolutely terrifying. Hearing you two talk about bows makes me miss when I used to shoot longbow in high school. It was so much fun. Lastly, landing Marines or Army troops with the Navy providing covering fire sounds like a "modern" tactic but the ancients were doing it and doing it extremely well so long ago. It's pretty incredible and shows how incredible they were.

[@nuclearjanitors]

Hangover squad, reporting in.

[@christophpoll784]

Notification squad reporting in as well!

[@remalm3670]

... Hi ya all! I'm the FNG; who do I report to 😀 ...

[@nuclearjanitors]

@@remalm3670 nobody uses the term fng anymore, borther. "Boot" is the term you're looking for. Anyways, as you were. Bring whiskey next time.

[@remalm3670]

@@nuclearjanitors ... Any preference?😉 ... ( I am a "Port" drinker, not Naval type) ...

[@nuclearjanitors]

@@remalm3670 wild turkey 101. Good looking doggo in the pfp

[@damedusa5107]

Love this kind of video. I would love videos done like this with experts on, discussing particular naval campaigns or battles across the ages. I know it takes you a lot of editing for the visuals, but this work is much appreciated and was a great listen.

[@RCAvhstape]

8:50 I think the equation you're looking for is kinetic energy KE = 0.5 mv^2. The energy of a projectile increases linearly with mass, but with the square of velocity. That's why a small caliber rifle bullet can do more damage than a heavier, slower pistol bullet, since rifles tend to have much higher muzzle velocities.

[@Paveway-chan]

"There's an old saying... Fortune favours the boulder! Well, I guess we're about to find out."

[@Wolfeson28]

"Tell those torsion engines to keep targeting the Cardassians."

[@mlccrl]

The saying is roman :"fortuna audentes iuvat" and it goes with "memento audere semper" (remember to dare always).

[@folkblues4u]

My new favorite KZbin channel! Love the depth you cover in these presentations.

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

YEARS after I built a ballista, a picture of me and my ballista gets to KZbin, copied from the Legio XXIV website. at 46:54. That's funny. I built that ballista in 2003. Tom Laps now owns it in Texas.

[@lonjohnson5161]

Kurt, I was about to brag about you. Glad I checked for your post first.

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

​@@lonjohnson5161 You can still brag about me if you want to. It'll be a nice change from the complaints!

[@jefffradsham2297]

Thank you william, very informative! I can see Drach taking his reenactnent group to a whole new level!

[@anonymoususer4937]

Excellent work. Thank you both for sharing your knowledge with us. Your interviewee did a fantastic job.

[@chemputer]

Just a suggestion to improve audio quality: have the other person record their own voice on their PC using audacity (or whatever software), that way it's a higher quality, and just have them send you the file and sync it up in editing. That way the audio quality of the other person isn't limited by the audio compression of whatever conferencing software you're using. It's a bit more work, but it results in a much higher quality result. :)

[@WordBearer86]

Thank you so much for this the constant cutting in and out has me wondering if my speakers are on the fritz.

[@ian_b]

Todays Top Tip on the internet!

[@Rob.DB.]

Could he also cut out the 1-3 sec. pauses this new chap...seems....to be....doing...with ...every sentence ?

[@MarkoLomovic]

@survivaltest 370 He is definitely stopping mid sentence, you can also hear excitement in his voice

[@mattwyrick8394]

@@WordBearer86 That's what it was. I was thinking the guy was just talking extremely slow. 😆

[@mattwilliams3456]

I love the expertise they bring and appreciate the fact they are sharing their knowledge, but do hope Mr. Dean and Dr. Clarke work on their pacing a bit. A more regular cadence and elimination of unnecessary pauses would condense the videos for time and be more enjoyable to listen to.

[@min_maximilian]

I agree, it was a terible video.

[@Neal_Schier]

It was indeed painful at times.

[@NicWalker627]

These colabs are awesoooome. He's a slow talker but damn I love this channel.

[@whee38]

The peak of military technology, pointy sticks and big rocks

[@ShadrachVS1]

We can't brag too much, we just figured out how to make those rocks and sticks explode...

[@gazeboist4535]

Don't knock pointy sticks and big rocks. They weren't truly rendered obsolete until around WWI, when it became possible to use big, explosive rocks and vast numbers of tiny rocks.

[@scipioafricanus6417]

Oh boy have I been waiting for this video!

[@Redchrome1]

The ballista at 46:54 looks like the one my friend Darius built. That might even be him on the far left. I helped put the thing together once at an event. It breaks down into surprisingly portable pieces. It'll throw a "3-mina" stone (read: shotput made of concrete) about 200 yards. He spent a *lot* of time doing the research for it, and has a lot of years of carpentry and arbalest-making experience, and about twice the energy of any other man I know. It was *hard* to engineer that thing and source all the needed components. I remember him talking about having to import wood from Russia in order to get pieces in the size and quality he needed to make the "hole carriers" which hold the rope skeins. As a noteworthy point, the arms on a ballista should *NOT* impact the upright wooden pillars of the frame. The arms should be stopped by the bowstring. You can get away with the arms impacting the frame on a toy machine, but on a machine of any size the arms will break (and the frame may break) if you beat them on the frame.

[@DARIVSARCHITECTVS]

Sorry to contradict you after saying so many nice things about me, but as a siege engine builder, I must correct what you said about the arms before someone snaps a sling (like I did early in the experimenting phase). The inboard, short ends of the arms are meant to impact the counter stanchions (inboard vertical members) of the frame during shooting. Now, the arms have LOTS of momentum, and want to continue moving forward. This is called overtravel. The sling must NOT snap taut, and be long enough to allow overtravel of the arms. What allows the arms to continue moving forward (about 1" on my 11' long ballista) is the flexibility of the cord bundles themselves. When viewed from the side of the engine, the cord bundles which propel the arms actually bend forward out of straight vertical in a shallow curve, pulled that direction by the arms over traveling past their rest position. The arms then stop moving forward, WITHOUT contacting the outer stanchions (as this would BREAK THE ARMS), and then move backward a bit to their rest position by the force cord bundles. You may then re-attach the claw of the release mechanism to the woven pull ring at the rear center of the sling after moving the slide (chelonium) forward to prepare drawing the sling back for the next shot. It is CRITICAL to understand how these parts function, and build them correctly. Not understanding how cord bundles act as shock absorbers and eliminate impact forces on the arms and frame can get your crew KILLED by a catastrophic collapse of the frame or breakage on an arm. If any engine builder needs help in understanding the design features of these powerful torsion machines, please contact me for advice before you break parts or get someone injured. I am at ksuleski at comcast dot net.

[@muninrob]

@@DARIVSARCHITECTVS Something to try for small low(ish) power torsion catapults. Use a short length of thick walled steel pipe of slightly larger diameter than your arms as the object going through your skeins. This makes winding the skeins easier, replacing the arms easier, and (If your pipe / socket is long enough), keeps your skein from unwinding when an arm breaks. Works *awesome* at broom handle to 2X4 diameter arms, I'd want a steel cage around the skeins before trying it at siege engine scale instead of "anti-infantry" scale - even "spear throwing" sized models get scary when they undergo "rapid unscheduled disassembly".

[@muninrob]

I think your response got lost in the youtube pipes. I got the notification, but there's no response still here. (Which is a shame, because it looked like it's exactly the kind of "nuts & bolts" thought process I wanted to spur.) I only received 1.5 sentences, ending in "cord bundle. Then inserted" P.S. Thanks for reading and considering my response, I thought I was just adding 2 cents for posterity. P.P.S. If you reconsidered & deleted your post, WHY? It looked like a good one.

[@Jimorian]

Thank you for the presentation. Wonderfully informative and entertaining!

[@albertofernandez2490]

many illustrations are from john warry's "warfare in the classical world". I read it so many times they are still burned in my memory after 15 years

[@johnashley-smith4987]

Got that book in 1981! Fantastic introduction to Warfare of the era!

[@tulsatrash]

Thanks for the info.

[@Warpwaffel]

An even more impressive thing: The calculations were not only done by hand, but also using barely usable numeral systems.

[@migkillerphantom]

What calculations? The mathematical frameworks to model the physics of these things didn't exist before the 1600s-1700s. They probably had trial and error, and some rules of thumb.

[@Warpwaffel]

@@migkillerphantom Please watch the video before commenting. :) Also you don't need to know the exact physics to make a formula for how big your machine needs to be to shoot which size of shot. You can get that formula by trial and error, and then you can make more or less uniform and predictable artillery, instead of having to experiment with every single one.

[@sergarlantyrell7847]

Yeah, I don't think they had a 0 in their number system. How they managed to solve, what was it, 3rd order differential equations(?) gives me massively more respect for how good they were.

[@absalomdraconis]

@@sergarlantyrell7847 : They probably didn't have use of differential equations, which should give you even a bit _more_ respect for them. The Antikythera mechanism is believed to have only been accurate out to ~50 years (I think it was 58?), not because gears couldn't do the job better than that, but instead because they didn't have the mathematical formulas to make it more accurate!

[@riderstrano783]

Sir, confirm contact is BAD PUN at bearing 275.

[@leechowning2712]

I just loved the comment about the 12-15 ft lances not showing up often... but that historians made a special note any time they did. It would be like the Paris gun being deployed... everybody noticed.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

there was a good museum on the archaeological evidence for Cunitian ships in the small town of Stilton apparently it was one of the iron age 'naval bases' for the south of Britain.

[@Attlanttizz]

These co-ops are super interesting. Thanks for this!

[@johntowner1893]

Great video and interview. Excellent guest. William Dean thank you.

[@ranekeisenkralle8265]

Drach's remark about the senator babbling about the ballista-gap made me laugh.

[@willlockler9433]

Fascinating. Very informative. Very enjoyable discussion. Thank you.

[@Colinpark]

Utterly fantastic discussion, loved it!

[@luisnunes2010]

Great title. \m/ "Hey, this newfangled stone thrower really messed up that galley... Can we make a galley big enough to carry a few?"

[@chrisdeal9945]

great guest great discourse good job again

[@jasonz7788]

Thank you gentleman. Great work

[@dancingwiththedarkness3352]

Greek fire, from hand pumps to large scale projectors at close range and filled pottery from catapults for long range used by Byzantium or eastern Roman Empire. A terrifying weapon used against wooden ships.

[@richmcgee434]

Imagine an alt-history Age of Sail where the Greek fire formula hadn't been lost to time and how it would change tactics and ship design/armament.

[@dancingwiththedarkness3352]

@@richmcgee434 I've always thought the key ingredient was either potassium or sodium metals, discovered in 1808 I believe, using early batteries. Alchemists in the time of the byzantine empire could have still used early batteries of cooper and iron inside clay pots with citrus juice as a catalyst. Either one reacts violently with water, causing seperation of hydrogen and oxygen, then igniting it from the heat of the reaction. Putting it in rockets fired in volleys, each tipped with a spike to entangle it in the sails or hold it in the deck or sides of the ship until the fuse explodes the bursting charge. A. Serious advantage if only one side has it. Without batteries, it couldn't be made, a easy secret to lose.

[@richmcgee434]

@@dancingwiththedarkness3352 Matches with some of the other speculation I've heard. The concept of early copper/iron batteries being stumbled across and then forgotten seems plausible, the inner workings of them would likely have been a deep dark secret known only to a few.

[@dancingwiththedarkness3352]

@@richmcgee434 exactly what alchemists were known for. Ancient greek wines sometimes exceeded 100 proof, ment to be watered down. Distilled into nearly pure alcohol and mixed with one of these metals would ignite violently in contact with water or flesh. It's a interesting thought.

[@090giver090]

@@richmcgee434 in this case term "friendly fire" would get a completely new meaning :)

[@VintageCarHistory]

Torsion engines are made of ropes that are twisted, sister. I wanna rock!

[@dabutler44]

Thank you William.

[@2710cruiser]

Legends has it that Biggus Dickus had the biggest stick and stone thrower on a bote 😂

[@Lensman864]

I had a friend in Wome called ... etc.

[@090giver090]

He has a wife, you know!

[@oscarsusan3834]

Cant recall if it was the Peoples Front of Judea vs Judaean Peoples Front naval battle,that started because of an insult-Hamsters and elderberries were mentioned I believe.

[@2710cruiser]

At least no one expected the Spanish Inquisitors to make an appearance in the time of Wome

[@georgethompson913]

Great content love how you got someone so knowledgable on another aspect of history to cover this niche part of naval history, however a minor contention. I disagree with the assessment that the fall of the roman empire stopped the use of mechanical artillery, catapults where used from the 10th to the 15th century and several naval engagements between britain and france occurred. However the style of medieval warfare was dominated by seige and seigeworks so artillery was focused towards that use, this was more easily achieved by powerful cannons which lead to their maturation. Likewise cogs and hulks where as mentioned earlier much taller ships with a higher center of mass, as such they proved far too unstable to mount catapults and really didn't need help in boarding actions. I believe the taller nature of atlantic ships and the predominance of fortifications where the main driving forcees to cannon development rather than mechanical artillery simply disappearing after rome fell.

[@toveychurchill6468]

A giant cross bow? That is like how my home-made warships were made except they’re mounted in turrets

[@nickcox3497]

Just wanted to say love your videos. Keep missing your live streams because I seem to be working every time. At least I get to go back and watch them. Keep up the great work.

[@billbolton]

And when its not live you can listen at faster than normal speed, mitigating those thought pauses.

[@nickcox3497]

@@billbolton lol. Very true 👍

[@Sauske2101]

Fascinating indeed gentlemen!!

[@chronus4421]

Thanks Drach!

[@dairakaimenepada5336]

Thank you for this!

[@aditj]

Nothing like running ballistics calculations in Roman numerals... hopefully they made firing tables.

[@krzysztofwujczak616]

And tonight's background for hobby time sorted out. Thanks!

[@AhmetwithaT]

This was a pretty informative talk.

[@civishamburgum1234]

Good video. Keep on rocking.

[@garygaither6561]

Great show enjoy it ⚓⛵

[@ColetteNoir]

loved this!

[@tcniel]

From a ground based artilleryman formerly of the US Army your guest did well, you helping him was a also well done and did help.

[@JP77999]

One of your best videos.

[@oliversmith9200]

Quarter hour in. Fascinating! 'But, I have to come back to finish later. Great to see this excursion into antiquity. I've read once that the ancients had "lost recipes" for making particularly elastic torsion elements of leather, like they had that super but also lost concrete formula. It's a point I keep an eye open for further mention or confirmation of... Thanks again fellows. I'll be back.

[@99IronDuke]

Really interesting, not a subject I knew much about, maybe do another 'special' on Ancient navies? Nice illustrations, a fair amount of work to source all those, etc. I just joined your Patreon.

[@spyrosvassilakis4212]

The displays of armor he talks about in 20:45 also serve another purpose. Advertising... Armor was a popular offering in ancient Greek temples and the name of the donor would be inscribed so that everyone could see it. I remember seeing (can't remember the museum) the cuirass of an Athenian soldier who fought at the battle of Marathon with his name and profession inscribed on it.

[@andersw14]

Love this. Any videos of the working models? Really add to the pictures to see practicals.

[@eisenhertz]

very,very interesting,thanks a lot!

[@SpyCactus]

This is fantastic.

[@toroon]

loved it!!

[@AndICanTalk2]

This was great

[@byronharano2391]

Thank you

[@sadwingsraging3044]

Dry fired : A collective groan sweeps across the battlefield.....

[@knutdergroe9757]

Very shortly afterwards the sounds, Of a very serious ass betting.....

[@anthroderick5383]

Lisa during the first Roman Civil War: we need hair trigger ballistas!

[@mbr5742]

Quite a few Lisa have a hair trigger during certain days of the month...

[@RCAvhstape]

49:00 They had firing tables, just like we do for modern field artillery. Cool.

[@jefffradsham2297]

The roman senator called pitchfork says, hit me with the largest triremene you can build.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

Samuel L. Jackson, stars in a sequel to "Snakes on A Plane." "Snakes on A Ship!" 🐍⛵

[@m35benvids87]

I was going to make a similar comment.

[@alimaeus455]

I've had enough of these motherf*****g snakes on this motherf*****g trireme

[@spaceactivistarchive4180]

The 1974 t.v. movie Fer-de-Lance featured "Snakes on a Submarine".

[@leeboy26]

Snakes on a Trireme, if you will.

[@spacecadet35]

Wouldn't it be a prequel?

[@dalesubic345]

You people should be ashamed of your selves. This guy is a math guy. Have you ever known a great math orator? No, I did not think so. The fact that he gave his expertise to Drach was very brave of him. He is not as well spoken as Drach but, he did very well under pressure. I am a science nerd and I wish that I could have done as well as he.

[@robertf3479]

He did do well, didn't he. He kept it understandable even to a layman like me.

[@gim9951]

Dale Subic We respect Mr. Dean for his commentary on the video. In fact, he and Drach should collaborate again for some math + naval tech episodes that shows a mathematical perspective behind various things.

[@benoitbvg2888]

A little sprinkle of auto-delete empty parts in audio edit would've been great though. But kudos for not going "uuuuhhhhh" once.

[@benoitbvg2888]

Oh dear. The nutters have climbed on board.

[@colemanadamson5943]

@@benoitbvg2888 ......and the unteachable know it alls never can keep their minds open and mouths shut. They always want to show you how smart they are because they have memorized what an adult parrot said to them once.

[@Realist968]

I wish you had 500x content. I love your stuff so much.

[@bencheevers6693]

Binging Drachnifel and find that there's an hour old video in the sidebar, shocking thing is that it's not up next!

[@billbrockman779]

Really interesting subject.

[@crusadingtemplar]

With my sense of humour the name if this video nearly killed me...we will "rock" you indeed

[@rictusmetallicus]

Yes yes yes, all good songs. But in this case, there's only one fitting song here: Spearhead by Bolt Thrower

[@richmcgee434]

Never go wrong with Bolt Thrower.

[@REALjohnmosesbrowning]

@@richmcgee434 bolt thrower is never unfitting, in any circumstance

[@richmcgee434]

@@REALjohnmosesbrowning Agreed. I would play them at my wedding if I weren't a diehard bachelor. Perhaps I should play it at other peoples' weddings instead so that they can truly have a special day they will remember forever?

[@RonJohn63]

3:37 Use and design of that buffer pad is quite interesting.

[@oscarsusan3834]

There’s your sequel - Snakes on a Ship.

[@anthroderick5383]

This video rocks!

[@TheFreaker86]

That video title alone is worth a thumbs up 🤣

[@misterjag]

"Battle speed, hortator!"

[@gumimalac]

How on earth do you make so much content? I'm an engineer like you and I don't even have enough time to watch all your content let alone make it. Drydock was 5 hours long. You must be from another planet. So that's where the name originates!

[@Thirdbase9]

Those cabinets in the Live Drydocks are really Drach's TARDIS.

[@richmcgee434]

Funny, I always assumed the name was a slightly spelling-altered reference to Castle Drachenfels, either the German originals or the Warhammer version. Be a good name for (magical?) incendiary catapult ammo - translates to "dragon rock" after all.