Ancient Technology Podcast - 3D Scanning Ancient Egyptian Vases | Brothers of the Serpent

[@King_fuji432]

SNAKES brought me here. Excited to see what your scans reveal. Great work!

Thank you!🙏

[@rockerobertson4002]

Cant wait to see and hear your full report of the data collected. Amazing work. Well done!

Thank you! Its coming soon.

[@annewitkowski7586]

Thank you for doing this explaining of how you started on it and your whole project. Excellent.

Thank you for watching and supporting!

[@ricchamen6304]

It’s ironic that I just thought myself yesterday that perhaps in the making of these they possibly used extremely hot 🥵 cutting tools in the days unknown to us. Perhaps sound cutting etc. But I had myself considered 3D printed from laser. A tremendous job people. Absolutely unique I agree with you that a journal together with Petrie Museum would be great. So Pics and Data. It would be absolutely absorbing and involved. I’m a sculptor and feel the value in this great and significant piece of work. I thank you all for your contribution.

[@ricchamen6304]

Thanks. I’d like to see a 3D copied(to computer 💻 then transferred to 3D printer &like Rockets 🚀 today 3D copied from original to secondary into whatever material you so wish. But say doing it into say a granite dust or other media. One has to always allow micron and use nano-metrics to remember that the copied version needs to be polished and therefore will loose surface thickness and it should remain considered when it comes to Highly polishing. And I have done Highly Polished bronze to the point where the reflection is straight lined and the reflection actually black,in areas since it’s that polished that there is no reflection. Whereas in other places it’s like gold(but it’s pB1 bronze. 10% tin,90% copper and no lead. It becomes immaculate and a place of such perfection that the result leaves folks speechless.

[@_MikeJon_]

Finding copper would be interesting. They more than likely used flint and other stone to shape and drill, not copper necessarily. The fragments of the other metals seem to be contamination or perhaps naturally occurring for the zinc.

[@79Cody440]

Its ironic soon as kyle starts talking about acoustical physics it gets loud and the sound goes to shit on your mics for a second. Amazing work you all are doing. I believe you guys and Ben will change history as we know it.

Thanks! Yes I deliberately amplified the helicopters to put our surprise into context and explain it.

[@ricchamen6304]

I have a green blue granite which has gold fleck in it. It’s really beautiful stone and has been handed down from my lecture now deceased. Phil Kolbe. Who I believe bought it back with him from Carrara Italy where he studied. It’s in the stone itself and floats there in thin slivers. It’s really beautiful stone. I think you guys would love it. I use golden section mathematical proportions to cut them as a base for my bronze sculpture. Beautiful.

[@nathancrossie1618]

Hey boys, great seeing you together! Just want to comment on the point around provenance. If we can incorporate pieces from well respected institutions like the Petrie Museum, The Louvre etc. and we can expand the data set in that direction, then the question of provenance disappears. I don't think you can reasonably question provenance without questioning the institution that provides the piece and subsequent data. The best we will get at that point is silence from the other side, and guys, that's a win. Its like not contending for the floor... You guys working on this will have the floor.. its awesome, important work and I'm excited to see where it goes.. All the best gents and keep it up! Nathan Egypt March24

Hi Nathan! Yes, you are right! Cheers

[@FollowTheRabbitHole]

What's up, Nate! I still have my kangaroo pin 😂 Mike

[@nathancrossie1618]

⁠@@FollowTheRabbitHole hey mate! that’s awesome! Ha ha ha itching for a catch up to talk about all this!

[@jamierees6824]

What if they aren't of the same quality though, as in what if the ones in museums aren't of the same precision of the vases that Ben and Chris Dunn measured? That would put added doubt on the originally measured vases true authenticity?

@@jamierees6824 that is why a final conclusion has to be based an a larger dataset. We are in the progress of scanning other museum pieces so we can have the big picture extracted from the big data. And don’t forget: not all vases are extremely precise. Its more likely that the best ones are sold trough history to private collectors for an understandable reason.

[@robertmortimer8288]

Here's an awesome comment from another reader about precision in hard stone vases: "One thing to keep in mind, these stones have inclusions (minerals and chrystals of different kinds with different hardnesses and brittlenesses), and the precision is maintained as the tool cut through constantly varying hardnesses and brittleness. Even on modern CNC machines moving into harder material causes increasing tool deflection away from the intended tool path." I just think this is so important for other people to grasp! Despite the challenges described above, those who made the hard stone vases still succeeded to make fore example thinn walls with consistency all way around! How could the eye see how much material to carve away at that micro level-precision with the same consistency all way around if it was only hand/eye and not some kind of other advanced technology like mechanically-guided tools with an already decided tool-path? If they carved/cut away too much stone in some place, the tolerance would be gone in that area. They couldn't correct it because the mistake was already done, how did they avoid this and still kept the high-level tolerances seen in some hardstone vases? Especially since many of the vases of hard igneous rock consists of different components and chrystal-inclusions with different hardness and brittleness. To maintain the same consistency all way around despite that constant great pressure against the surfaces is demanded and the risk of friction, vibration and different hardness in the stones different components threatens to deflect the tool from it's intended path! It's just amazing!

Thank you!

[@swirvinbirds1971]

Child's play compared to the Crystal Ewers of the 1800's.

[@GroberWeisenstein]

Too bad you don't work stone to know for sure.

[@robertmortimer8288]

@@GroberWeisenstein It's based on what other people (who have worked with hard stone) have said!

[@al2207]

aliens technologies used the same cutting tool for everything cutting is done by removing valence electrons responsible for atoms accretion , so different density and hardness is not a problem for them , please refer to the LAH laboratory by Russian scientists analyzing tool traces

[@andymccracken4046]

Wonderful video, you are doing great work, I am looking forward to seeing all the scan results.

Thank you!

[@PaMela-r3c]

Thank you for your passion and Work ! Greetings from Berlin - Germany 🎉❤

Thank you very much!

[@mathewhale3581]

Damn. I was hoping for results but at 43 minutes you said it’s not ready. Nice idea to get it co authored and journal published with the Petrie museum. Best of luck with that, I really mean it. The data will speak for itself, both to them or without them. Hopefully the museum which bears his name will honours Petries vision of measurement, documentation and inquiry of the objects he collected. The little bit I’ve seen of other scanning projects (pots and Barabar caves) has ground shifted my thoughts on ancient stoneworkers in days. Before this I held judgment and just assumed that humans have always been clever - but laser-level precision engineering, measurement, mathematics and geometry will be smoking gun evidence if it’s ubiquitous. To paraphrase Clarke: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic pounding stones” :)

[@fransahm1956]

I worked in the mold building trade. W used CNC CMM machines. that are pretty darn accurate.

[@Jonas-si3gb]

Great project❤

Thank you!

[@timgstar3585]

Excellent job guys 🙏

[@robertmortimer8288]

I am a student of optometry and optics (the science of the eye and vision). The MAR (minimum angle of resolution) equals what is possible for the eye to clearly perceive (with high resolution) between two points = 1 minute of arc (1') = 1,75 mm on the distance of 6 m from a vision acuity chart (standardized) = 0,0 logMAR on the logMAR chart = normal VA (visual acuity). So let's say you have a normal VA (visual acuity) of 0,0 logMAR (1 minute of arc = 1') and make a hard stone vase with hand-tools, only using your hands, eyes and hand-tools and the normal work distance (the distance between your eyes and hands when working with the stone vase) is about 0,6 m. The following equation: 1,75 mm/6 = x mm/0,6 equals x = 0,175 mm (about 0,2 mm). This means that your eyes MAR (1') at 0,6 m is 0,2 mm. So you can at a minimum see 0,2 mm clearly on the hard stone vase you're working with using only your eyes, hands and hand-tools at a normal working distance of 0,6 m (which is about one armlength distance for many people). If you than try to make a perfect circle (circularity), you would likely achieve a perfect circle with a deviation of about 200 microns, which equals 0,2 mm, when you're carving/polishing/cutting the hard stone vase using only your eyes, hands and hand-tools. That means the tolerance is about 200 microns (0,2 mm). One of the hard stone vases that the vase scanning team (including engineers of metrology) did scan, had a circularity precision (tolerance) of only 16 microns, which equals an astonishing deviation of 0,016 mm from achieving a perfect circle. That would most likely mean you could not reach this kind of tolerance when trying to make a perfect circle (circularity) using only your eyes, hands and hand-tools because your eyes would not clearly be able to measure a deviation of only 0,016 mm from a perfect circle because it's 12,5 times less than what your eyes can perceive clearly of 0,2 mm. So if you can't measure and clearly see how much exactly you're carving/cutting/polishing away of the stone, there's a big risk you've carved/cut/polished away too much stone in some place of the perfect circle you want to achieve. The tolerance of that circularity (that perfect circle) you want to achieve that happened to be 16 microns (0,016 mm) would be gone. You couldn't correct it because the mistake was already done. There’s also a big risk you cut/polish/carve away too little because you can’t clearly see and measure such a small deviation of 0,016 mm (16 microns) from a perfect circle. Probably you can do hard stone vases to a certain degree of tolerance/precision when it comes to circularity (which is only one aspect of precision/tolerance) by using your hands, eyes and hand-tools but most likely only based on what's possible for the eyes to clearly perceive on the precision-spectrum (tolerance-spectrum) at your working distance. Because the eye and its vision system has it’s limitations. The Russians (scientists against myths) used not only their eyes, hands and hand-tools when they during 2 years made a hard stone vase. They also used a modern turning-table with a spindle to pinn away high points on their hard stone vase. Moreover, science against myths didn’t measured all the aspects of precision like the vase scan team did with their hard stone vases from a metrological point of view. So the measures from their example is not valid to use in this case. This only shows how difficult it is to achieve high tolerances of a hard stone vase when using only your eyes, hands and hand-tools because your eyes can’t clearly perceive and measure such small deviations as 16 microns from a perfect circle (circularity). Scientists against myths also didn’t hollowed out their vase so they didn’t achieved consistent thin and curved vase-walls like other hard stone vases have, they just drilled it out. Still a good try from them even though their only purpose was to debunk others and prove their own narrative, their true purpose was not to do it in an open-minded and objective way. The hard stone vase mentioned above with a tolerance (precision) of only 16 microns in circularity that eyes with normal VA (Visual Acuity) can’t clearly perceive and measure, have most likely not been made by only using your eyes, hands and hand-tools at a normal working distance of 0,6 m, but probably with the help of some other kind of technology too. Weather that technology would include turning wheels with bearings, bushes and spindles, pantographs (to achieve geometric relationships), mechanically guided-tools with a pre-determined tool-path or not, some other kind of technology would most likely be necessary too than only your eyes, hands and hand-tools to achieve such tolerances. So this supports the argument that such high-precision hard stone vases were most likely made with the assistance of some kind of technology too, rather than entirely by hands, eyes and hand-tools. It's really important to remember this aspect that the human eye and the human vision system have their limitations in the debate of how precise hard stone vases you can achieve using only eyes, hands and hand-tools or if other technology also is needed when it comes to high precision!!!

Thank you!

[@chrislynn8689]

Excited to watch this one!

[@buddywilliams6570]

Thanks for this video. You and the Snake Brothers my an interesting and entertain show.

@@buddywilliams6570 thank you!

[@ericmckenzie1221]

20 microns = 0.00079 inches Human hair is approximately 100 microns

[@Jammin6796]

key factor in ancient building and crafting,,, TIME..... you would be amazed what a cloth and a little bit of sand can do,, simple rotation and TIME...

[@zicho1st]

1:24:00 what was the mechanical ultrasonic idea?

resonating the tool bit with ultrasound which will cut the material more easily

[@zicho1st]

you would need steady source of resonation that will pass the it to the tip of tool without loosing it when you tough it by hand.

[@kristopha]

was waiting for this one

[@robertmortimer8288]

Great podcast-episode with the Snake bros! Do you have contact with others in the vase scan team except Adam, like the metrology engineers Alex Dunn and Nick Sierra? Engineer Eric Wilson?

Yes we are in contact through the Artifact Foundation.

[@Eyes_Open]

Electron scan shows no copper but does show titanium? Sounds modern.

[@BIGWIGGLE223]

37:02 hopefully all of the archeologists that are willing to work with you guys will be as cool about you guys handling their "objects" (lol!) as she was. Sometimes it only takes 1 to give you a shot and if they're impressed with your professionalism and the results it can open the doors of those that were hesitant before. "What are you gonna do woth the data?" "DELETE IT." Lmao!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ScrewdriverTUNING]

Beautifully done .!! Road soad .!!! SNAKES 🐍

[@Sokrates-500]

Which known handcrafted vases are you going to compare them to? Without a comparison none of the results really mean anything in regards to whether or not their level of precision can be accomplished with simple tools.

We scanned a new dynastic alabaster and naqada pottery vase too.

[@Sokrates-500]

How do you know that those were made using simple tools?

[@contrarian8870]

@14:15 Paraphrased: A skeptic pointed to a 'legit' vase, Matt Beall now owns it, had it scanned, but skeptics don't respond to that". Respond to WHAT, specifically? Was THAT vase "precise"? Where's the STL of THAT 'legit' vase for evaluation? If THAT vase is not precise, nor is there a public STL, why do you even bring THAT vase up?

[@carmody90]

THAT vase can't be achieved with your suggested methods. Get over it

[@contrarian8870]

@@carmody90 ​ I didn't "suggest" any methods, and you dodged my direct question. Which data shows that THAT vase is 'precise' or that it can't be "achieved" by some "methods"?

[@Leeside999]

I've heard Beall admit that particular vase is "not very precise" and thus hasn't released the data. So looks like they have scored a bit of an own goal there, while claiming it as a win.

[@DanielAbbottSuenTV]

Heck yea, love the snake bros. Killer video Poka!

Thank you!

[@g-funk484]

apparently the ceramic on a sparkplug from a car thats made from aluminum oxide is strong enough to grind metal down on a lathe, maybe they had some type of ceramic tools to shape stone on lathes

[@TheJordsd1]

It’s gonna be a…. Learning…. Curve 😂😂😂

[@TheJordsd1]

This sums up my experience of all your podcasts and road sodes. Thank you for it all.

[@CH3FFI3]

I wonder if they made Dad jokes in the ancient past and whether they were more advanced than our modern ones?

@@CH3FFI3

[@מוגוגוגו]

Great jokes to start the podcast !

[@janhenckell4178]

Maybe that´s why my dog prefers to drink out of a glass vase instead of a ceramic bowl: because the water tastes different. Thanks guys! :)

[@cjmallett1]

Mine prefers the toilet bowl😂

[@MarkGovern]

15:10 You need not focus on the people who will always disagree with you and your findings. It’s gets very tiring to hear discussion around detractors repeatedly. These people are not that important and you don’t need to have their endorsement. Your work will speak for itself so move on without them.

[@norbertdrage]

52:49 pantograph..? :)

yes, thanks 😅

[@norbertdrage]

Thank you for the informative and entertaining videos. Looking forward to future developments with the scanning :)

[@richardjohnson8009]

Pretty strange that the Boston dynamics robotics program is called "atlas" and the russian sub nuke that could wash away a nation is called "Poseidon" which the temple of Poseidon was located supposedly in the center of Atlantis the center of the concentric rings.

[@randallmason9687]

They could not find copper, because we all know that the entire ancient world was carver with deer antlers, and beaver teeth!

[@CyrusBrinkworthRAS]

some workings man are there, no they are four!!! good video....

[@Artengo1]

[@Kdw849]

Is there a connection between these stone vases, the pyramids, and the Barabar caves? The vases have different frequencies when filled with varying levels of water. I understand even without water, the stones have harmonious frequencies. I think there’s a connection. Myths tell us the ancients used music to move stones.

[@TerriblePerfection]

I didn't know that. Where can I read more about it?

[@Kdw849]

@ gosh, I’ve watched so many videos and read so much about it, I can’t point you to one source.

[@kdannyb283]

SNAKES!!!🐍 🐍 🐍

[@dougg1075]

Lord, why can they all just let their vases researched! What the hey

[@Adam-gy3tw]

Someone make sure dibble doesn’t go to these museums with sandpaper and ruin the vases. 😇

[@Adam-gy3tw]

Can everyone start referring to Flint dibble as a PSEUDO-ENGINEER please? Thanks.

haha! you made my day

[@ricchamen6304]

Carlson discusses ultrasonic and musical cutting machines. Apparently the church altered the musical cord structures which is why we don’t achieve that anymore today. But they have recently been patented and machines made. Give it a look 👀 or watch

[@dustinmcclellan40]

Snakes!

[@daisydog388]

Check out Nero's Tub in the Vatican....giant granite vase basically, attributed to Romans but i don't agree 🤪

yeah its crazy!

[@mikec8191]

Ad break every 6 minutes 😳 I timed it

[@annewitkowski7586]

Membership is only $1.99 per month

[@Artengo1]

@@annewitkowski7586👏🏻

[@mikec8191]

🙄

[@Artengo1]

@@annewitkowski7586👏🏻

[@mikelee9886]

I don't think the provenance should really be an issue anyway, being that no one seems to be able to even come close to replicating them no matter how much money is thrown at it. If the argument is that they are modern fakes... then show us a modern fake. No machines granite like this, especially not into these forms, and the cost to do so would be FAR more than what they are being purchased for. So there's no point in spending tens of thousands of dollars to sell a vase for a thousand dollars. Maybe ONCE, and it turns out to be a waste of money, but not TENS OF THOUSANDS of times. So, I think this argument is complete nonsense. Petrie was looking at and measuring these vases in the 1800s, and we DEFINITELY could not produce them then. That means both that they aren't fakes, and that if we couldn't do it in the 1800s... then how the F were these people doing it 14,000 years ago? It means that we are missing information, that at some point in deep history, SOMEONE had the technology to make these things, that we don't even really seem to be able to do now.

[@contrarian8870]

It's not how logic works. If you claim something is ancient Egyptian, it's your job to prove it, not anyone else's job to disprove it. Until a legit ancient Egyptian vase (verified to come from a specific site) is analyzed, related claims about ancient Egyptian technology have no value.

[@GroberWeisenstein]

I can give you a list of Italian vase turning machine lathe manufacturers if you want to be educated?

[@zicho1st]

Half an hour pass and too many chating and no results yet.

@@zicho1st have you seen any results chapter?

[@zicho1st]

Sorry, I didn't get to it. I think it's amazing that finally somebody did this. However, I commented that the video is too vague (or how to say it). Somehow you were speaking too much sideways with little information given. Ok, if I'll check the results. Because, it nothing else, this vases are the smoking gun that something in mainstream ancient history is wrong. Very wrong. btw: do you think it would be possible to form those vases with that precision on pottery wheel with soft material like clay? I'm wondering if that granite vases might be artificial stone, that could be "soft" for longer than several seconds after mixture, so a potter could form it and than let it harden into granite. I doubt that because of those crystals, but I haven't had them in hands.

@@zicho1st this video was only about the project and the Snake bros, to let people know what is happening. I will have several detailed videos of the results, but I still need some time for the production, and the analysis was also long, since we are not working full time on this research yet. Maybe in the future it would be possible... It seems like there are precise and not so precise vases even in museums. We will compare the pottery and alabaster vases to the stone ones but in my opinion the 20 micron accuracy which we have seen on several privately owned vases, is not possible with clay on a simple spindle, however identifying what is possible and what is not, needs an experimental assesments in my opinion with the best machines and craftmen living today. I dont think we have conclusive evidence today that geopolymers can create this homogenious crystal inclusions in a cast stone like we can see in the vases.

@@zicho1st we also see clear turning toolmarks on the vase, which kinda destroys the geopolymer hypotesis

[@zicho1st]

I meant it that way, some wooden "stick" could create those toolmarks while geopolymer was still soft. Like if you were rotating clay material to form a pottery, but instead of hand u use tools to make more precise.

[@Shibnibby]

Love brothers of the serpent. Dude, i want to watch your videos but you have to make it easier to watch. They are very boring

Can you explain why?

[@NecroMancer-w2o]

Put it 1.5x. It will not be boring.

[@markwilliams5654]

Your hand measuring is dodgy at best get titans of CNC to measure it

[@norbertdrage]

Collab with Titans of CNC to measure and even make a replica would be awesome!

@@norbertdrageyes I am on it

My hand is not measuring anything…its capturing data

[@MrRusdawg]

21:44 I think is what your looking for

[@markwilliams5654]

Widgets in Guinness from metal cans tastes metallic Get some kegs and beer gas nitrogen mix and a Guinness tap Will taste much better Do it properly 😉

[@Artengo1]

The little widget inside cans is made from food-grade plastic, usually polyethylene or something similar. Since it doesn’t come into direct contact with your mouth or significantly affect the liquid, any metallic taste is unlikely to be because of it. It’s interesting you felt the need to comment on this. Maybe the taste you’re noticing comes down to individual sensitivity to certain flavors. Either way, the widget is designed to enhance the experience, not detract from it.

[@MrRusdawg]

21:44 I think is what your looking for

[@markwilliams5654]

An electrical engineer dressed up as Indiana Jones and some people that work and help at a vineyard come on guys get some professional people to measure it correctly 👍

[@GroberWeisenstein]

A certified independent metrology lab at least.

[@norbertdrage]

Wasn't Chris with them?

[@robertmortimer8288]

He works with other engineers too, whose specialization is metrology!

[@Artengo1]

Before commenting, take a moment to understand how broad and versatile an electrical engineer’s knowledge really is. It’s pretty clear that your perspective is quite narrow, so there’s no point wasting energy on this.

Yes Chris King was with us too.

[@markwilliams5654]

Your an electrical engineer.........😮 Oh ...... That's why you didn't measure properly lol 😅

[@MrRusdawg]

21:44 I think is what your looking for

[@thesilentninja9255]

That's ok, most mechanical engineers forget little things like access, 😂

[@ricchamen6304]

Carlson discusses ultrasonic and musical cutting machines. Apparently the church altered the musical cord structures which is why we don’t achieve that anymore today. But they have recently been patented and machines made. Give it a look 👀 or watch

[@wizwhat8186]

If that was true why wouldn't any surviving classical texts from before that time mention this, even those that discuss engineering at length like Heron of Alexandria's writings? It sounds like, Mr Carlson is putting two and two together and making five there.