Ancient Faith Today Live - Did the Early Church Really Not Have Worship Services?

[@junicornplays980]

I always thought it was interesting that learning about Greco-Roman history is seen as a "classical education" for Christians, but learning about the history of the early church is ignored or taboo. I'm Catholic and went to Catholic school from 1st - 12th grade, but I learned almost nothing about apostolic church history.

[@Pokemon23491]

@junicornplays980 I think this fact alone was a huge factor in my conversation towards Orthodoxy. I grew up Catholic, went to Catholic Schools k-12, and I did not even know the Orthodox church was part of church history or existed until 2017/2018. I do not think that's by chance, but very intentional. The Catholic church has their own narrative and history, and fails to mention they broke away, not the other way around. Felt like deception to me.

[@annalynn9325]

In my experience, Catholics who know about the Great Schism actually do believe that the Orthodox broke away. To me that’s plain illogical, but I think they’re genuine in their belief. I mean they believe in papal supremacy, so….

[@junicornplays980]

​@@Pokemon23491 It's unsettling for sure, but I wonder how much is intentional because they weren't great at teaching me Catholic history either. Most of my teachers weren't knowledgeable about Church history. Probably only like three, and they had a hard time because in all the Catholic schools I attended, the majority of students were Protestant/non-Catholic. I don't hate the Catholic Church I just think a lot of the problems come from the fact that traditions or even being traditional just isn't valued. Everything eventually become abstract. You should see the inside of my local church, it's just bland and sad. Learning about the Orthodox church and early church history has moved me more to the Eastern side (I align most with the Melkites), but in my view the Catholic and Orthodox churches split from each other. I would love to see the churches unite but I will admit that Rome has a lot of work to do before that can or even should happen.

[@Pokemon23491]

@junicornplays980 I absolutely agree on your last point and how the Roman catholic church is sad in appearance, they both agreed to split. The church as a whole is not one I could unite myself to despite being raised Catholic. It's possible you're correct on the teachers not being trained to teach the whole picture on church history. I went to Catholic schools k-12 and never once heard of the Orthodox church until I was about 33 yrs old. It seems most Protestants only teach back to their foundation, and that really got me seeking. That's wonderful you're being drawn to Orthodoxy. I truly believe the Lord calls those who are open and seeking truth, and many are coming to the Orthodox church including you and me (converted in 2020)

[@aklt4923]

Thank you for addressing this craziness, Fr Tom! This video reminded me how incredibly blessed it is to be Orthodox. Glory to God!

[@stevelenores5637]

When I was still a Protestant I would ask myself what did the original church do? It always came back to the same answer - it was what the Eastern Orthodox Church is still doing.

[@BlueStinger475]

I asked this years ago. Way before I became an inquirer to Orthodoxy. I just had a feeling that the early Christians never worshipped the way the Televangelist did.

[@stevelenores5637]

@@BlueStinger475 No kidding! The church Fathers would look at televangelists and just shake their heads. Romans 2.24 “The name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you.”

[@mrjustadude1]

Thank you father, excellent presentation!

[@AncientFaithMinistries]

Thanks for watching!

[@OrthodoxNeophyte]

Father what a fantastic study. Glory to God! Orthodoxy is Christianity!

[@NadiaHarman-k1n]

Blessed Nativity of our Lord Jesus Christ in Australia Blessings Father Christ is Born, Glorify Him

[@TheMOV13]

Imagine eventually bowing down to the throne of God in Heaven and then trying to explain how it had seemed like a good idea to get people to stop worshipping God.

[@betsyvines8904]

Excellent episode Father! May our Lord and Savior heal you swiftly!🙏🙏

[@noors376]

Hello Fr. Tom. Sorry for your accident. Will have you in prayers for a speedy recovery. God Bless 🎄☦️🙏🏻🎄

[@bonniejohnstone]

Great Job! I have a collection of information that I share with people who ask me questions about Orthodoxy on Quora. What a jewel!💎☦️ Thank You and Amen! Protestant 46 years Orthodox 30 years (Fr. Evan’s Parish) ☦️

[@James-px6hp]

Appreciate your contribution thank you

[@Yuschak7x]

Thank you for the update on your arm +,+,+ continued prayers for speedy recovery. - Nativity here at St Herman’s in Virginia ❤ from your former parishioners.

[@mattmackmack9173]

I'm a former Protestant from many years ago and I'm now Byzantine Catholic. Listening to all these anti-worship/anti-liturgical "arguments" goes from the amusing to just tedious.

[@danphillips1130]

Take care of that arm Father.... I have seen this injury before in weightlifting.... Get the surgery and get better

[@OldManWembly]

In his arguments is he really trying to differentiate between things like worship and edification? What does that even mean? I don't understand how you could even begin to separate those two things. And frankly, anyone who is arguing that you "shouldn't worship God" while living on the earth (i.e. before you get to "heaven") is... well... there is really only one kind of force that argues you shouldn't worship God.

[@TheMOV13]

Absurd isn't it. Worship is the ultimate and highest edification from which all other forms of edification and orientation get their effectiveness. "Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I (Christ) in the midst of them" Is the response to that "We have Jesus here with us this evening, but don't worry about him, he's just going to sit quietly in the corner and not disturb is while we hold our little bible study and preach sermons at each other.

[@STMukr]

Nativity in Ukraine❤ God give you health❤

[@violetfern9885]

Interesting 👍

[@CharlesCherryWatercolors]

As a Protestant myself, I can say that anytime one begins with a presupposition of Sola Scriptura, one will inevitably go off the rails of orthodoxy at some point, either sooner or later. The very concept of Sola Scriptura makes zero sense in the early Church, at least until the time of the First Ecumenical Council, and even then it's completely anachronistic to impose something like Sola Scriptura on the Church at that time, or any time, up until the early middle ages.

[@pattypeterson30]

This guy that’s showing the slide show , not Father the other guy. is so off point. He assumes that because he has a lexicon that he knows all Greek and the meaning of all Greek words and how they’re used and how they were used in ancient times. Cmon Mister. Aren’t you going a little little bit too far with these apologetics? This guy is (not Father) is beyond the pale. I really hate it when protestants start trying to explain the Greek unless they’re a Greek scholar theologian they should just sit this apologetic out. Protestants , what are we gonna do with them.

[@guitarslinger2717]

Is it just a coincidence that Reformation Day falls on Halloween, or is there something there? lol

[@AncientFaithMinistries]

🤷‍♂

[@ebahapo]

Reformation is a misnomer. It’s rather deformation.

[@pots6964]

Canadian protestant aking for a friend.😊 What is the reference fot not prostrating on Sundays. Tks thank you for the teaching.

[@AncientFaithMinistries]

Generally Orthodox Christians don't kneel or prostrate on Sundays because we celebrate the resurrection on this day

[@sleepingtube]

Sunday is the day of the resurrection ἀνάστασις (anastasis). That greek word literally means "standing again." If this is the day that God stood again, how can we kneel? (I'm kinda joking) on a serious note, prostrations are penitential and the day of resurrection is joyful! We're too happy to do prostrations. "Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast."

[@pots6964]

Thank you. I understand. Really appreciate all you do. I have learned so much from AF. Lord of the Spirits has been a great resource for me. Peace and Grace. ​@@sleepingtube

[@-kyrieeleison]

@@AncientFaithMinistries Is it more common in the Russian tradition? There's a Russian parish in my town and every Sunday I've been there they do prostrations. It always catches me off guard.

[@AncientFaithMinistries]

@@-kyrieeleison I'm not sure, sorry. You'd have to ask the priest of that parish there or someone who's more familiar with the Russian tradition.

[@AnthonyDelgadoBR]

Protestant here-I don’t encounter this extreme of a view of scripture often. Most folks I know understand that literary and historical context is necessary to understand the Scriptures and that something (for example a worship gathering) doesn’t need to be present in the scriptures for it to be a healthy tradition. That said, I do think a historical Covenantal approach to the Scriptures does produce a number of instructions that are not preceded by “thou shalt,” and yet are just as significant as those that are-corporate worship and instructions for corporate worship, being included therein. I also don’t think Wadsworth is a respectable theologian. In scholarly circles, he’s kind to laughed at. I keep him in the same corner as history channel “scholars” because he’s made his way by exploiting the ignorance of nominal Christian’s. All that said, thank you Fr. I haven’t finished the video as I write this but much appreciate your insight into a VERY important/essential issue.

[@ebahapo]

They said the same about Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, all the way to Charles Russell and Helen White.

[@andreaurelius45]

Wadsworth does not take into account that Synagogue worship was linked to temple worship. If one wants to see an echo of what temple worship looked like in the first century, just look at modern day Samaritan worship services. You will IMEDIATELY recognize key points.

[@TheMOV13]

Asking if the early church worshipped is on a level with asking if they breathed in and out.

[@TheMOV13]

Is Dr. Wadsworth SOLO sciptura? (As opposed to sola scriptura)

[@marijaorevic2652]

Nativity.. From Serbia 🇷🇸

[@andreaurelius45]

Wadsworth is wrong on. So MANY levels. And people are listening to him.

[@AnthonyDelgadoBR]

His fundamental issues are a) he’s not reading the Old Testament and b) he’s coming to the NT with presuppositions.

[@WeakestAvenger]

Wadsworth's arguments seem to be a string of non-sequiters. Also, I never heard from him a definition of the English word "worship." Maybe he gives it elsewhere in his videos, some part you didn't show here. But if he is going to argue those five Greek words shouldn't be translated with the English word "worship," he needs to clarify what the English word means today and how it doesn't match the Greek words.

[@danphillips1130]

I live in a part if the country where many people own a copy of the Trail of Blood.... Many people believe this book's claims.

[@WeakestAvenger]

The interesting thing about calling Ezekiel's Temple vision in Ezekiel 40 and following "the Third Temple" is that his vision came before the Second Temple was built. And yet the Jews did not even follow that vision's blueprint in building the Second Temple. So it seems weird to call it "the Third Temple." It is fulfilled in Christ, anyway. The vision ends with calling the city in the vision "YHWH is there." Also, regarding proskuneo - in Matthew 4:10, Jesus quotes Scripture to tell Satan "You shall worship [proskuneo] the Lord your God and serve [latreuo] only him." Notice that is placed alongside latreuo, which is service rendered to one's God. But in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus is the only one to whom people perform proskunesis (using the word proskuneo - Jesus falls down on his face in the Garden of Gethsemane, but it doesn't use that word). The only possible exception is the servant bowing to the king in the Parable of the Unmerciful Servant. But I would argue that the king can be understood as the Son just as easily as the Father (compare Matthew 25:34). So that would still be Jesus.

[@shauna5942]

Revelation Chapters 4&5 are the key to the entire book of Revelation and all the books of the Bible are essentially in the book of Revelation !! Revelation Chapters 4 and 5 is indeed for today and occurring today , as the entire book of Revelation is occurring today and not for some future dispensation !

[@bonniejohnstone]

Orthodox don’t spend time predicting the future because we really don’t know what God will do. That is a mystery! God is found in the present, not in the past or future.