And if it was Autism? Adult Autism without Intellectual Disability: Key Facts. B.Grosjean. MD.

Bernadette Grosjean. MD.
Psychiatric Grand Round Dalhousie University. Nova Scotia, Canada. December 13, 2023
Dehumanizing representations of autistic people and their families are not new. In recent decades, old myths about autism including ones about autistic people lacking empathy or theory of mind, have been challenged by biology, neuroimaging and autistic advocates. Unfortunately, the dark shadow of false beliefs is still very present in our collective unconscious.
In this talk, Dr. Grosjean gives an update about autistic adults (without intellectual disability) in particular in women, and how to identify autism in the general population encountered by health care professionals. (The talk is 45 min with 30min Q and A)

[@dawnhughes9942]

Please help autistic adults to end the legal discrimination against us. How is it legal to only provide services and benefits up to age 18? Isn't this blatant age discrimination? I wasn't dx until I was an adult. Autism didn't exist as a diagnosis for women when I was under 18. This led to rejection from my family. I have no one. I need help. I don't feel it's right that we should be abandoned and homeless. If there is no help for us then allow us humane euthanasia. What is happening to older women is awful. Please allow us equality in care or let us die.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you, it is so hard indeed...fighting the lack of knowledge and discrimination the health care systems is why I am giving these talks...

[@TheGenbox2]

I get that feeling - i really do! It can and does get better! I don't get on with my family at all. Some strength got you to this point.🥰

[@lisawanderess]

I’m in the same boat

[@sarahb.6475]

Try to join a CCS program. I am in one and it helps a lot. It gets me a team of people who help me. And I go see horses every week for horse therapy and I do yoga. And I have a peer support.

[@jasonthomas208]

I was just diagnosed in October 23 and I am 57 years of age. My life has been nothing but a struggle and it's exhausting and I find it impossible holding down a job so society calls me lazy!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

sorry you are going through the pain...it is quite hard...but more and more late diagnosed/identified autistic adults are creating supportive communities I hope you can find one...the accusation of being lazy because brains are different is so unfair, invalidating anf frustrating...

[@karenholmes6565]

I am a middle aged woman. Last March I began to suspect I am autistic. About a week ago I finally reached out to get an assessment to determine whether or not I am on the spectrum. I found an analogy to express how I feel I have lived my life in hindsight. I feel like I have been looking through a kaleidoscope and it has been stuck in between patterns. My life has always looked slightly out of focus, an incomplete pattern, and looking at myself and my life through the lens of autism has made that pattern finally click into place. It took all I had to make the phone call to get this assessment. I am afraid that I will be challenged or told I am wrong about this insight I have into myself and my life, but I feel I need extra support to live since my mom died. I have increasing trouble with executive dysfunction, problems leaving my home, I need to go to the dentist and I am terrified. I am an academic scholar that fears going to the doctor because the last time I went they didn't believe me. I can't imagine why neurotypical people would believe we'd make this stuff up about ourselves.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

it is so hard indeed. One year ago I finally asked my dentist if I could have dark glasses on (they actually had some in the office) and my earplugs on...and I told my dentist I was autistic. It was scary as, last time I told a physician I was autistic (it was my cardiologist) he switched and spoke to me like if I was intellectually disabled and visibly was no longer interested in answering my quuestions...and I am a MD. But my dentist was great and ,this year-I just went last week- it was so much easier. It is still not a pleasant sensory experience but bearable (and necessary ). I also did not schedule anything else that day.

[@elisabethvanderhulst8669]

My dentist is even switching off the lights before I enter his room but I have the feeling that he is in the autistic spectrum as well. And I also have always problems with specialists in the hospitals while I'm a dietician and I was married withe a GP in Italy for more than 25 years! I think we know too much and that might be scary.

[@chesneymigl4538]

Absolutely. This is a common theme in late-diagnosis individuals. I wasn't diagnosed with ADHD until around 30 and ASD until around 35. It's so frustrating to go from a fairly functional adult with multiple higher degrees to feeling like I'm completely disabled and dependent. I'm only very, very lucky to have a wonderful husband that is able and willing to support me. The psychological impact of having to rethink all of my plans and goals in life is just overwhelming and I'm still getting zero support from the system that supposedly should actually be the one providing it. I also believe I fall into the SCT diagnosis but am not willing to even mention it to my current doctor as she has been resistant to any actual communication about mental health beyond just giving me my adderall once a month. It's very disheartening.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

@@chesneymigl4538 so sorry you doctor is unable to help you and unable to address your difficulties beside prescribing...there is such a shame how medicine and psychiatry have lost their soul and ability to help people to think through, be validated, supported, given the tools to better understand themselves...

[@PaulaStreet]

@@bernadettegrosjean2365 "I also did not schedule anything else that day." Good idea :)

[@myhoose90]

I wasn't diagnosed until i was 51 and at 6mins in i can relate to what she said 100%...when i tell people i have known for a long time that i am autistic i don't need any verbal feedback from them... I can see they don't believe me by thier faces they think i am only acting for benefit money

[@robinjanz-buhr4427]

46 and I agree!

[@myhoose90]

@@robinjanz-buhr4427 its written all over their faces... It feels like because i'm not drooling and can do things for myself then its not real

[@user-fr2tg7pz8r]

51, and same!

[@benediktornhjaltason7948]

I get a ton of pushback from all directions also. "Regular people" are for some reason invested in the OLD incomplete definitions of autism being correct.

[@jenbloom6848]

Same @ 56.

[@neuroticnation144]

I have such a difficult time making appointments and talking on the phone. People don’t understand me and I don’t always understand them. I’ve gotten into so much trouble, it’s not worth it for me to try. I don’t know how people get benefits in this (US) country. They make it so difficult, complicated, and confusing. I live by the grace of those around me. I’m in a constant state of anxiety. It’s like they hate neurodivergent people here, and want them to just die and decrease the surplus population. I can see why suicide is so high amongst us. Too bad I’m too stubborn to die. 😏

[@campbell953]

my mum told a really good story of taking me to my first day of daycare sitting me down next to another little girl and me going "hello how are you today" and the kid responding "googoogaga" to which i then responded "oh I'm sorry um... googoogaga! googoogaga indeed." I wasn't diagnosed until 21, masking starts early folks.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you

[@benediktornhjaltason7948]

Thank you for the presentation. As someone who discovered that I am autistic at the age of 38 by falling into the youtube rabbit hole, I get extremely triggered by these people that mock self identification and learning from this content. Actually I get offended on behalf of autistic people, because that suggests autistic people would not be able to produce accurate and educational content about autism and publish it on these platforms. There is now a large group of autistic people dedicating their lives to producing this content on all aspects of autism, from their own personal experience and from their research. Just from the top of my head I would like to mention these KZbin channels: - Orion Kelly - That Autistic Guy - Mom on the Spectrum - Woodshed Theory - The Thought Spot - Adult with Autism - Autistamatic - Autism from the Inside Imagine taking all aspects of autism including emotional dysregulation (Meltdowns, shutdowns and burnout), special interests, hyperfocus, sensory sensitivities, executive functioning etc etc, and having these concepts broken down and explained in seven different ways by actual autistic people. Now imagine an undiagnosed autistic person is going to hyperfocus on all this information and scrutinize every aspect of their lives against it for months and months before they have their first assessment appointment.

[@gedcaeneus4628]

People should also know that if there is a record of your parents denying you had autism in school: they will not test you without you getting these people to say ok. Which is insane. But also is very common. Also: most of the time getting a diagnosis for disability is a trap anyway. I find

[@denisecouchman9289]

Hi - would you be prepared to go into a little detail re the ‘trap’ ? I think i have an idea of what you mean , as my daughter has a ‘partial diagnosis ‘ ( yes there is such a thing 😵‍💫) and though ‘well meaning’ people have tried to get me to pressure her ( she’s 26 , but pressure at any age is not healthy ) to go for another assessment , the first one was difficult enough , in the years leading up to , (some of the ‘professionals’were more than awful ) Am not sure that even the partial diagnosis was good for her , so much stress , & years of feeling less than she is , only now starting to see herself more clearly , but years wasted . I’m definitely on spectrum myself , no formal diagnosis , though gp prepared to refer me (4th time asking in 10 years ) i am seriously thinking it may not be a good thing .Instincts kicking in .

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you and you are welcome...indeed ignorance and arrogance can bring so much pain and self doubt...a form of bullying at times

[@isabellammusic]

I discovered I'm Autistic from watching their content and learning about Autism! Now I can't stop researching and I want to help raise awareness and talk about my experiences.

[@benediktornhjaltason7948]

@@isabellammusic it's a surreal experience! I had absolute zero knowledge about autism before I watched my first video. The picture I had in my mind about autistic people was a severe intellectual handicap and probably some weird look. (I'm ashamed of that ignorance now) So my beginning of understanding went something like this: - "Wait, what? This guy is autistic? Probably he is not autistic, maybe he is just hosting the show" - "Oh okay, he is autistic" (Watching the content) - Wait okay, that sounds a lot like my life - Eeeeh okay I call the period after that the "HO. LY. SHIT." phase. Honestly it felt like an out-of-body experience for a while. I think it was genuinly a state of shock, it was hard for me to look in the morror. I was continually glued to the screen at every available moment after that for a long time. I'm gonna check out your channel 😊

[@PatriciaCelan]

Thank you for taking the time to educate us on adult autism so early in the morning for you! We appreciate your dedication to teaching.

[@turtleanton6539]

So cool. Thx u

[@Deeznutz503]

Yeah I stopped masking after 40 years because in the words of my instructor at my last job: "I know there's something wrong with you...' why try? neurotypicals can do all the 'social work' from here on out.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

I am for trying to share knowledge as much as possible, I genuinely think that it helps to fight fear and discrimination...but it is a long and exhausting path

[@lisawanderess]

Diagnosed at 52 and am totally on my own, technically homeless living in my caravan with no permanent place to park it so on the move all the time. I was relieved to finally have an awareness of why I have struggled with so much all my life! My friends and family don’t like me talking about me being autistic as I’ve also been diagnosed with so many other things over the years (physical and mental) that I’m sure they just think I’m the one seeking diagnoses when all I’ve done is seek help for the things I’ve genuinely struggled with as I’ve had zero support or understanding from them, just criticism and shaming. I’ve been hospitalized in psych wards 4 times prior to my ASD diagnosis and given every psych med under the sun since I was 18 but nothing helped and I spent a lifetime wondering what was wrong with me…😢

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

I am so happy you finally got an answer to your questions....;)

[@waywrdsun]

I'm 52 years old and I have a new career late in life as a psychotherapist. I have only begun suspecting I may be autistic in the last 9 months. I really appreciate the up-to-date, clear description you've given here. I also appreciate all the detail in terms of differential and co-occurring diagnoses. Thank you so much!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

You are very welcome Thank you for watching :)

[@holyngrace7806]

Superlative. HUGE THANK YOU Dr. Grosjean!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you, you are very welcome

[@markstewart2131]

A masterful understanding, and accurate details of the invisible pain felt by many. Thankyou for your contribution.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you very much

[@Nethezbet]

46 here, and it is clear to me that this is among the least understood neurological issues that the clinical community deals with. I have a career in law enforcement and military and my training in crisis intervention led me down a multi-year journey where the ADHD was found first, and now I am pretty sure I am ASD as well. I know people fake many issues to get clicks on TikTok or whatever, but there are MANY adults that have next to ZERO places to go for ASD diagnosis. It isn't like I will be getting benefits, but it WOULD help me understand how to function a bit better. My new job is very socially involved and when a bunch of people called my boss after a conference because they were worried about my wellbeing I thought "Huh?" Had I know before, I would have stuck around at my other job, now I am painted in a corner.

[@TheGenbox2]

There's one issue @10:47, i want to air, which is going to be speculative and unpopular. The common and popular narrative, that receives no critical comment, is that the male stereotype of Autism, is clouding a population of autistic women. That is true, undoubtably, and is also in a process of address, if KZbin representation is measure of anything. The question I want to ask, is the male stereotype as perceived, clouding the issue for males too? After all, males are not a stereotype (despite many trying to assert this on KZbin). I am late diagnosis at 50yrs and male: many things occluded 'my autism' (and as the lady says, meet one person with autism, you met only one!). It may be a generational thing; and this younger generation may well be more alert to Autism. But, history and the idea that progress is not the thoroughbred we would want it to be, but and old plodding workhorse, still ploughing the same fields, makes me wonder. After all, you often don't see what you're not looking for, especially if you address the issue broadly with very specifically and a limiting narrative. The relationship of medicine and popular narratives is problematic, and possibly continues so.

[@johnbillings5260]

I have the same thought as to whether the atypical presentation for a male may be even harder to identify than a high masking female. I'm on my way to a diagnosis and I think this is a big reason why I was able to fly under the radar of all of the psychologists, counselors and doctors I've seen in my life.

[@myhoose90]

@@johnbillings5260 i also think the fact from leaving school till aged 48 i'd been to a doctor no more than 3 times for unrelated issues has played its part in me being missed too

[@johnbillings5260]

@@myhoose90 Oh, wow. That is very odd - autistic or not. I have a very long medical record which I think is pretty common for autists.

[@myhoose90]

@@johnbillings5260 the only reason i got reffered for diagnosis is because i have depression and anxiety that nothing helped improve and CBT was a bit confusing to be honest which led to my GP asking me to speak with het colleague who had experience dealing with autistic people... After an hour general chat with her about my life past and present and obviously because of my interaction and it was her who started me off on the diagnosis path... The peopke around me now act like i went in asking fot it after diagnosing mysef which was wrong because even though i had heard of autism i had no idea what it actually was so going in and trying to act autistic was impossible i would have failed

[@myhoose90]

@@johnbillings5260 actually odd is a great word to describe how my existence has felt so far 😂😂

[@Kamishi845]

Thank you so much for this talk! I found myself nodding so much when you went over the profile, and I loved the answer to stay curious when young people have learned about autism on social media and see themselves in the autistic profile. The one thing I found you didn't mention was demand avoidance, as I came to this video from another which suggested that one way to manage burnout was to write down lists of things you like to do and all I thought was HELL NO. When I'm burned out I absolutely can't handle any sense of demand placed on me, because demands just eat away at my mental energy because they feel like things I need to do regardless of how I may feel about them at the time.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

yes thank you, I will make sure to mention it in the future :)

[@catherinejames2734]

That all rings quite true in regard to my life history. I was a hyperlexic child and did not enjoy socialising much, but I didn’t have parents that cared about me, so I grew up masking and just surviving the world. Have almost died a few times and shocked a few doctors in that I couldn’t tell that I was at serious risk. Always waiting until I collapsed before getting help. I cannot perceive the world the same as most people, I usually have a different take on most things which can be challenging as people seem to think I’m disagreeing to be difficult. I try to avoid leaving the house unless I need things. I’m an artist, have a degree, so am happy spending lots of time alone. People can give me incredible anxiety. Most of my life I’ve been suicidal and I’ve always felt that I won’t live long and don’t want to anyway. I’m happy when around people who think differently, just have trouble finding them.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you

[@andreaking2358]

I just recently realized that I am probably autistic. It explains SO much. I’ve been on drugs and alcohol for 20 years till recently. When I stopped all the symptoms were here and I had to figure it out. I wish I would’ve known sooner. When I was younger I felt soooo awkward and confused. I don’t remember much of my past I was so dissociated bc I realized that I could not explain to anyone what was going on and I was in so much emotional pain, getting in trouble for misunderstandings yet trying SO hard to be a good kid and people please. I remember the first time I tried alcohol, all of a sudden I could socialize and talk! I even credited alcohol and cocaine with my learning of social skills. This was before I realized I was autistic and it is just so sad to me. All I wanted was an adult to see I was struggling and to teach me the ropes. To show me HOW to exist. Alcohol and drugs became that savior for me. I waited tables too, to practice speaking (and still do unfortunately). Now that I know what’s going on I think I’ll be able to heal and start my art business. I wish I would’ve known sooner, 37 now. I actually found out about the autism on my 37th birthday! What a good present 😊 but yeah, it’s been so much pain. Thank you for spreading awareness. 🙏❤️ this is lovely! Also on a crazy note - many of my family members I believe are also autistic, including my Mom who got very angry when I brought it up! She is a heavy heavy masker, so I think it threatened her reality too much. And omg why do I always write so much in the comments 😂😂😂 I just feel like I have so much inside of me to get out! It’s the reason started painting!!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you for sharing your story...I have read other people's experience in which they described how becoming aware of being autistic was very helpful in becoming sober...I hope it works for you...And yes very often it is quite hard for family member to accept the idea of being autistic too...sometimes linked to old guilt including because of some horrible old and false psychoanalytic theories...Good luck on your path of discovery...

[@Rick.Sanchez]

Thank you so, so much! I just (after 10 y after an ADHD diagnosis) selfdiagnosed since Fluoxetin, because of low serotonin lvls, revealed my autistic self to myself again in a university setting. Your presentations are a fundamental piece in my 15 page plea email to my psychologist, after he doubted my selfidentification and first email. (Working with him for years, we have a good relationship and I think he gets it now, not least because of your work!) I feel so much self love now again, my therapist even pointed out my problems are connected to selfworth, which I'm sure will improve since I now don't have to deny my experience of life as being different than most. Thanks again, and much love! ❤

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

interesting, thank you so much, I hope your psychologist will have an open mind...there has been many changes in the field in the last decade....

[@bryanmccaffrey4385]

Wow. I'm a late-diagnosed 50 year old Autistic man. I'm also an undergrad student (again) at University of Victoria studying psychology. I also work in cybersecurity as an intelligence analyst. I will be going to graduate school to become an RCC. I have not seen a lecture like this...ever. This evidence-based lecture is giving me new research ideas. It's also helping me understand Autism in myself and other adults. It clicked when watching this. I kept trying to relate ND personality traits to all of the personality theories and didn't feel it worked. Of course it doesn't work. It's an NT framework. I feel as though a whole field of ND personality traits can be studied now that we understand we're working from a different neurobiological-biopsychosocial framework. It's different in NTs and NDs. It just is. We can work from there. Thank you for this research. You are now my favourite researcher in this area. :)

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Well thank you very much, I am happy it talked to you :)

[@CuriosityP75]

I ordered an Ono Roller after watching this video. It just arrived and I LOVE it! It’s quiet, rolls really nicely, and I like how it feels (both weight and texture). I’ve just ordered the Nee Doh cubes!

[@miravlix]

I feel like you are describing someone with ADHD & ASD, not someone with either ADHD or ASD. Took me a while to figure out why I didn't have ASD or ADHD, because I have AuDHD that cherry pick from each world and then mix them together in unpredictable ways. ASD is order, ADHD is chaos, so for us AuDHD people we get this chaotic order life, that can somewhat work with life as the world is chaotic order.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

it is extremely complex and difficult indeed , like our mind being pulled in different directions

[@TheLastEgg08]

Do you have like a very strict routine or you just like routine?

[@oliverschultz4943]

Absolutely fantastic! This was a clear, comprehensive, detailed, rigorous, and compassionate lecture, based on extensive real-life clinical experience and the latest academic research - thank you Dr. Grosjean!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you very much

[@robokill387]

55:07 as an autistic adult who was diagnosed in childhood, I often hear from people who were not given a diagnosis based on things that are clearly inaccurate stereotypes, e.g, people not being diagnosed with autism because they have friends, or can give eye contact or have a clean and neat appearance (because apparently all autistic people have bad hygiene).

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

yes, thank you

[@scottfw7169]

There at 36:44, "higher incidence of ... ME/CFS" I'm living that. Was diagnosed ME/CFS in 2006 and was diagnosed Autism in 2009. Because ... all yo little mitochondria ain't makin' enough energy any more for you TO mask. As part of that let's time travel to 1995 in Kansas City, MO at the long gone Humana Stadium Center when Dr. F. said to me, "The part of you that processes anything more than the most minimal amount of stress is gone, burned up, burned out, it's just not there any more. Get out of this job with the big telecom and do only low stress jobs from here on out." Umm, I get that, Doc, but low stress jobs do not pay the bills. And then in 2005 it finally got me, was working a not-telecom job and the ME/CFS hit, right in the middle of using a work tool of a type I'd used on and off since the 1980s, all of a sudden I had no clue what it even did. I thought I was having a stroke. Vividly remember Doctor guy looking at me and saying, "Have you ever heard of something called ME/CFS?" Ohhh boyyy, did an adventure begin. Hmm, ya know what this looks like to me just now having it all in one paragraph, a MASSIVE case of autistic burnout, Permanent autistic burnout.

[@shanechang2015]

Is there a way for someone like me, older (55) almost totally isolated, and apparently unable to get very far in a search without having a meltdown and giving up to actually find a psychiatrist to get a diagnosis? Like a service that I can pay to find me the help I need?

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

there should be but not all psychiatrists are "up to date" and official neuropsychological testing are very expensive ...that is why I try to share the information as much as possible...

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

Personally i still use High Functioning as i was diagnosed with it as a kid and always took it as you can't see it BUT it is still there as it is all internal and the meltdowns and such you actually see are the breaking point that has been crossed. Like what would be a better term for people like us? People on the spectrum that looks normal to societies eyes until a melt down happens or the autistic person gets overwhelmed by their sense, like what label would we get? Like in societies eyes those of us that were formally labeled as High Functioning do not look autistic or act autistic UNTILL we get overwhelmed even though we experience everything any other autistic person experiences. Hell i remember having to rego through testing when the High Functioning label was finally dropped from being used for diagnoses at least where i live as they said or tried to claim i no longer had autism that i was manipulative instead DESPITE being diagnosed for being on the spectrum at a VERY young age, so there was no way they could have fucked up a diagnoses. But yes they actually tried to use the fact that people with time get better at learning how to deal with shit to say i was not autistic The judge was not having any of this bullshit and rightfully so and said since i was diagnosed at a young age by professionals that autism is not just going to magically go away and that autistic people learn how to mask and or deal with stuff as they age. Just government bullshit being government bullshit is all that story was about, as how the fuck are you going to be diagnoses as a kid autistic yet when you grow up as a teen or adult you are not autistic anymore just a manipulative person? Like i have been diagnosed well before i can remember so when they asked me when i found out i was autistic or had autism i replied with "I don't know i guess i always knew" and that is a response that one can expect from someone that has been diagnosed as a kid at a early enough age as i probably heard my Parents talk about it to teachers or ER staff or whatever. And that question came up when i was in my Teens MANY years later, so how the fuck am i supposed to remember when i first found out? Like the answer makes sense as at a very young as you will notice that you are different from everyone else so you always knew just i don't remember when i heard the actual word for autism and the adults explaining to the other adults "Oh he has autism so he's different". Like who would remember that? especially those of us that are lucky enough to get a diagnoses at a very young age, so you COULD NOT EXPECT TO REMEMBER that insignificant detail Also i refuse to use the term Asperger as 1 it's not what i was given years ago and 2 it makes me think of someone wiping their ass with a hamburger and the visual image is fucking disgusting Anyways good video

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you

[@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena]

@@ContentRemoved___ Please don't tell me you are speaking from personal experience lol

[@BijanIzadi]

I have to remember to watch this!!

[@pikmin4743]

this is excellent and so validating 💚 I'm 42 and still prediagnosis because its so hard to find an assessment over 18

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you and yes it is a shame that it is so difficult, there is an urgent need to educate all colleagues working in adult health care and mental health...

[@chesneymigl4538]

I haven't even made it through the entire video and I wanted to tell you how wonderful it is to have this level of validation. Even if there aren't a lot of solutions out there, just being seen does mean a great deal.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you

[@napmanj9413]

Wow! This is a disturbing watch. In the fall of 2019 I was diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder, Social anxiety disorder, and Major depressive disorder. But because I mask so well cognitively my diagnosis came at 48yrs. I only obtained these because I went back to school and had the life experience to perceive the great differences between myself and the other students. There were amazing teachers and administrators who recognized some traits of autism and advised that I get a psych eval. Covid closed the university just as I was learning for the first time about academic accommodations.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

I am so happy you got proper help finally...because yes, there is so so much misdiagnoses given (often with "negative" vibe in particular vis a vis women) Thank you

[@napmanj9413]

@@bernadettegrosjean2365 lol I had unexpected company, and didn't finish my comment. I was just about to get into the STAT program at the university of manitoba when the covid shutdown happened. I am just now coming out of the dissociative state and focusing on my health. I have a 120lb support dog who has minimized panic attacks, allows me to bask in her boundless love, and gets me outside into nature. Provincial disability does not give me enough for a healthy diet. I have diabetes, and adhd and never consume enough of the protein these conditions require to be managed to the utmost. The neurological disregulation of borderline personality disorder has me in fight or flight mode all the time. This unrelenting stress and unending pain now has me in such a dissociative state that my molars have shattered under the gums and a fistula has developed. Selective mutism, alexythemia, and anxieties have put me into the position that I haven't been able to keep doctors when I sense their skepticism. I had started the process of applying for disability just before the shutdown, and just recently found a doctor in my home town. I'm now hyper focused on my overall health, and the zemiology of my situation. There are 3 different applications for the disability programs here and each one needs its own medical documentation. The stress of navigating these barriers is triggering pretty much every condition that is literally going to kill me 20-30 years before a neuro typical individual. I have yet to find any type of advocate that could help. Is there way to get involved in a research study on the combination of pretty much every single symptom of late diagnosed adhd, bpd cluster b, major depressive disorder, social anxiety disorder, addictions and diabetes/inflammation?

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

wow so much work ahead of you...Good luck!

[@BaskingInObscurity]

I taught myself to make more eye contact, mostly because it was necessary to get a job. But even at 55, I find myself less stressed in some conversations if I just let myself look away. However, face contact, at least, helps just as often to keep me from distractions. Sometimes I just want to stop trying, like as a general practice.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you. It is why it is so important to change the way public and health care professional think about eye contact or lack of , in particular in western countries. often I explain how by forcing eye contact, we prevent the person we are talking to, to really focus on what is said for instance, and also how we can considerably lower the level of anxiety by not seeking eye contact with someone who is uncomfortable with it...

[@sarahb.6475]

I was diagnosed with autism in 2020. Now I am 52. But my whole life I never understood why I didnt fit in or why others constantly bullied me and stuff. But I also have anxiety, CPTSD, hEDS, celiac plus a bunch of allergies. I believe my mother also had autism. She lived to be 82. Luckily one of my limited interests is a healthy lifestyle. I do a lot of walking (I dont drive and have 0 interest in cars) and I have a resting heart rate of 55. At night it goes onto the 40s. Like an athlete. And I ride horses now. I do keto diet, almost carnivore. Corn allergy is hard to live with as its in almost everything. But I saw a weird sign today while out on my walk. It was saying something about "deer giving advice about various beers". I could only think "deer dont drink beer!" So that sign is a bunch of nonsense! I guess most neurotypical people must not realize deer dont have access to beer? 😂 I also remember in the past being very confused while out in January and its freezing cold outside with snow everywhere and seeing this huge sign on some store in huge letters saying "We have cold drinks!" - as if they thought that was a good thing. Who wants cold drinks when its like 12 F outside with a wondchill below zero?? And two summers ago some sandwhich shop I walked past had a weird sign too: they wanted to hire rock stars! But why would some famous rock star want to go work at that crummy sandwhich place?? Unless they mean geologists? But they wouldnt want to work there either!! Then there was this fourth place with a nonsense sign: the Upper Crust Pizza place. But pizzas dont HAVE upper crusts - only bottom crusts! They must be making fruit pies or something. I have been tempted to call them + tell them that but then they may get mad (and they are selling evil grain / gluten) so... Example #5: a weird sigh popped up over here last summer attached to a chain link fence. It just said "The Hero Spot". I guess heros are supposed to go stand on the sidewalk by that sign? Even my therapist couldnt figure that one out! OH and the bank had some dumb sign about depositing rainbows!! I never realized rainbows was a currency of the US. 😐 And this bar I walk past has weird sign too: it sells "rails". I guess they run around stealing railroad tracks? I mean a rail is what a train runs on isnt it? No wonder you hear about those train derailments in the news! And there was yet another sign by a barber that said they wanted to hire like 5000 barbers! Why do they need so many?? But I hope people are not feeding beer to poor deer! That is not good for their health. But horses are much easier to understand than people.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you 😎

[@Flopsi80]

In Germany you have to wait 4 years to get an appointment for diagnosis, if you can't pay for it private.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

yes, it is a shame everywhere, it is why it is so important for all psychiatrists and psychologists to be properly trained and innformed

[@pat8988]

Very enlightening. Every time some symptom was listed, I found myself explaining (to myself) the logic behind the behavior. Sometimes, there is a very good intentional reason for a specific behavior, many times related to masking.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

yes indeed...and a better understanding of it and us can br so so helpful. Thank you

[@littlefarmers1861]

I was diagnosed at 38 yrs old. I've always known because I have a career with students on the spectrum.

[@yupzone]

This presentation is so concise yet thorough, considerate and knowledgeable, and is immensely helpful. Thank you.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

you are so welcome, thank you for watching it :)

[@victoriaoni]

Very informative presentation, thank you. Helpful for me as a parent. Difficult to get support for teens with autism but who do not have intellectual disability. We are in the UK.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you, it is very hard even if the Royal College in psychiatry has been more opened to "Autistic Doctors International"'s perspectives (with many members in the UK) Maybe you can contact ADI ?(autisticdoctorsinternational.com/) and ask if they know of informed doctors/psychologists where you live.

[@lindltailor]

Just one datapoint here, exposure therapy can work depending on the individual, the fear or trigger, and the activity in question. I have only grown in my abilities because I forced myself to go into the world and try, no matter how nail-bitten and panicky it was, and i'm glad I lived through it because I came out a much higher functioning individual. The key to exposure is to somehow integrate it with your special interests. Don't subject yourself to what may be 100% torture for you, but if you can integrate the activity with an interest then the best possible outcome *may happen*, which is growth and leading a more full and capable life.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you, I agree....it depends of the context, of how the process is established, and how much the "helper" being a teacher, a parent, a therapist,eyc... is respectful of the person they work with, its possibilities and potential limitations including the physiological and psychological ones, aware of the difficulties and of what is possible, necessary or not for instance. Like for other processes, when there is a "power differential" it can be used for worse or best..I agree that the more independent someone can be in life the freer they can be later on to make their own choices....but I am also aware that pushing someone to much too fast or above what they can do at the time, can also push towards more shame, depression, pain, illness and may increase the suicide risk...I will always remember a 40+ y/o patient who pushed herself in exposure therapy (post severe childhood trauma) and whose blood pressure suddenly went in the 250/160 ...after each session....we had to stop it after 4 sessions, clearly her body (if not her mind) could not take it despite her best effort. s So we need to listen and be very vigilant and take our time which medicine today is no longer giving to both patients and healthcare workers...Thank you

[@KristineS]

Thank you for this!!!!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

you are so very welcome :)

[@denise2169]

Bravo for speaking up about autism! We really need to educate people about the reality. Most people are different; they just hide it well!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you

[@Lilibet0]

wow! I found this very educational and helpful! Thank you for this presentation. I would love to see your full version of this presentation.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you, this is the full version

[@ImThatSassyChic]

45 and as a late diagnosed ADHD, I relate so much with someone who has masked for the past 40 years. All 3 of my kids have ADHD, my older aister and her daughter have ADHD, my other sisters son has ADHD and yet I waited so long to seek help for myself. I think my dad has some sort of neuro divergence and I found out that his mother had a "nervous breakdown" when I was a small child and "was never the same." Which meant she became almost completely nonverbal, only saying maybe 4 chosen words and seemed to have impaired cognitive function. And she was this way until she died of old age. Now I'm thinking she may also have been autistic. So now I'm interested in exploring an assessment but a big part of me is scared of not being believed or just being brushed off. This I think has mostly came from years of medical gaslighting. So for now I've been researching and started a log of my life experiences that reflect autism criteria. Anyone have advice for those of us who have not yet been assessed?

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Self Diagnosis is pretty solid. Depends why you need an assessment but make sure it is with someone who is well informed...and caring :)

[@emmagoldmansherman]

Thank you so much for this fabulous talk! I would love the link to the study in Sweden from 2022 mentioned early on about the 19%. If I could get a link or a pdf, I would appreciate it. I am coaching late dx'd including self-dx'd autists as I am also one myself, dx'd at 55. Thank you again for all you are doing!

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

You are welcome here is the link it is free access Nyrenius J, Eberhard J, Ghaziuddin M, Gillberg C, Billstedt E. Prevalence of Autism Spectrum Disorders in Adult Outpatient Psychiatry. J Autism Dev Disord. 2022 Sep;52(9):3769-3779. doi: 10.1007/s10803-021-05411-z. Epub 2022 Jan 6. PMID: 34993724. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31170725/

[@MsCasper1967]

Thank you

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

you are welcome.

[@Deeznutz503]

@6:04 story of my life right here

[@aut-couture]

great presentation, so accurate

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you

[@elisabethvanderhulst8669]

Thank you so much for this excellent presentation! I'm on the waiting list for ASS diagnose at the age of 62. So glad to read that we can react strange or with lots of side effects on medication. The specialists don't believe me. And all my allergies and intestine problems. What about the intestinal microbiome in people with autism?

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

thank you, we are not well informed enough about the microbiome but I would not be surprised at all

[@MsLisa551]

My father died by suicide at age 29. He had many learning disabilities and depression no doubt. I was diagnosed adhd at 46. I had learning disabilities and life was very difficult. When i was 8 i had an EEG in 1975. I was told they were looking for hyperactivity. Idk.... and no diagnosis found. I had incontinence issues my whole life. However,,, i never had a family dr or dentist from age 5 to age 19. Lack of medical care and guidance. My mother had learning disabilities, alcohol and narcotic addiction. I'm now 57 years old and realizing i am on the spectrum. I have struggled with depression, abuse, anxiety, adhd, Cptsd. I get go of my psychiatrist of 30 years. I have a new and younger psychiatrist that's going to help me. This life of mine has been exhausting.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

I am so sorry to read this...and really hope that your new psychiatrist is more informed and genuinely opened to learn and work with you.

[@REGjr]

VERY insightful. I wonder if you'd be willing to please consider that noticing our passion for justice is a reasonable pretext for re-examining patent dismissal of the refrigerator mother "hypothesis". Hint: increasing prevalence of both narcissism and autism are not uncorrelated, and in light of the goosechase it THRILLED mothers of autistic kids to prompt by pointing the autism finger at vaccines it would be EXCEEDINGLY foolish to expect objective results from anyone even willing to do the study (AND INDEED WOULD ALLOW HISTORY TO REPEAT ITSELF IN THE VERY SAME WAY THE ORIGINAL REFRIGERATOR MOTHERS NOT BRINGING IN THEIR KIDS INFORMS FEIGNED CONCERN THEY MIGHT HAVE CAUSED IT WHEN THEY BRING THEIR KIDS IN NOW). Their entire lives are built on undeserved benefit of doubt. This is child abuse, by even more childish parents. The abrahamic filicidal impulse on Sinai (that leapfrogged the damage Psycho Abe wanted to kill Ishmael [not Isaac🙄] for costing his reputation before Schwarzenegger made that cool) during the era of animal sacrifice shows us child exploitation and sacrifice have always been endemic to humanity. So the world will continue to walk refrigerator mothers back like Alice Miller walked "g(r)ifted" back because EXPLOITATION WOULDN'T BE ENDEMIC IF MORE PEOPLE DIDN'T BENEFIT FROM PRETENDING MOTHERS DON'T INDUCE AUTISM THAN FROM CUTTING TO THE CHASE, and that just is what it is in a world where corruption and incompetence inevitably prevail because ignorance stays dominant either way. Freud elaborated "infantile autoerotism" before Bleuler used the neologism autism to steal credit and derail European psychiatry for about 30 years as I'm sure you're aware. He also apparently derailed Freud because I think if Freud had not formulated the concept as a way of understanding HIMSELF he'd have likelier seen Bleuler coming. He probably would have invested less in mentoring Jung, too if he'd benefited as much as we have from his insights. He remarked on Bleuler poaching the idea in some correspondence with Jung and the betrayal just strikes me as a very typical autistic experience. Freud's sidehustle wouldn't have been worth stealing to screw up the other guy's magnum opus either if Freud hadn't been a peerless genius who probably only oversexualized autism with what he'd otherwise sublimated as an ability to articulate the paraphilias from only hearing his patients' descriptions of their pervert (his word) husbands because (in light also of his oedipal theory) his father very likely molested him IMO.. That said, perhaps antipsychotics seem to yield more consistently predictable efficacy in geriatric dementias than even schizophrenia because in the elderly Alzheimer's (80% patients female) and other dementias not precipitated by verifiable neurological insult (such as stroke) are end-stage regressions in lifelong psychotic illnesses. Egodecompensatory premorbid regression explains why they don't recognize their own children and also suggests their illnesses don't necessarily have to be end-stage conditions. Now's our overdue turn though. They're good where they are. I'm just pointing out the drugs must not actually treat psychosis per se since they're prescribed at the most sanity-seeking times in patients' lives. The more worthwhile study would be of results from prescribing them to mothers when their kids are diagnosed autistic, schizophrenic, or request puberty blockers because their mothers have induced them to transgender delusion (an obvious attachment strategy in kids rejected for their physical sex or sexual orientation) that undiagnosed autistic girls trying to rid themselves of displaced rage toward their mothers internalized as self-hatred resort these days. Now THAT'S some self-unaware parenting passing for sane by inducing their kids to psychosis. Gay man here so not a homophobe and not a transphobe, I just know a chromosomal impossibility with which wack mothers who only even make their kids gay in the first place by keeping unwanted pregnancies (first trimester androstenedione) would rather mutilate them than accept kids most thought it would have been wrong to abort. So it's actually NOT medicating these mothers as a matter of child protection out of concern for THEIR RIGHTS that's a moral failure Because from the perspectives of their undiagnosed (and premorbid, if we could remember) autistic and premorbid schizophrenic scapegoat adult children those mothers were psychotic, not us.. Abusing us is what regulates their masks of sanity for everyone else (including their other children), so our siblings have inevitably become even more invested in not seeing it for what it is than those autistics who were diagnosed in childhood (or schizophrenics in early adulthood). Pretty clear a typical schizophrenic delusion begins as posttraumatic dissonance and persists because nobody helps them integrate their post-decompensatory insights and flashbacks. It's objectively quite cruel, but it's not for nothing that the intersection of insanity and ignorance is irrationality. How can it be that psychiatry claims there's no such thing as an adult-onset personality disorder if autism is developmental delay? I think there would be no need for waiting until adulthood to diagnose them if that were the case. Seems pretty clear ASD is a predisposition for ASPD and BPD in large part because diagnosed or otherwise young autistic adults are not meaningfully advised (or reminded) of their developmental incapacities (for instance to enter into marriage contracts). This is an obvious failure of treatment for those with diagnoses as much as for those of us without who emerged into adulthood oblivious to the vulnerability of our undefended egos. Maybe that's because diagnosis legitimizes proxy status in what narcissistic and psychopathic mothers KNOW they've factitiously induced. So the autistic inability to formulate theory-of-mind originates in the need to think we attached to mothers who loved us but who actually wanted us to die except insofar as we were useful to validate their savior complexes. And autistic naivete is absolutely adaptive to surviving mothers who entertained themselves by toying with us. As if we were THEIR misfortunes. I do find it challenging not to see abandoning the refrigerator mother "theory" upon mothers reacting by not bringing their autistic kids in for treatment as reckless negligence...because those mothers were giving the CLEAREST IMAGINABLE indication that the type of mothers who DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW IF THEY'D ACCIDENTALLY CAUSED THEIR CHILDREN'S distress had indeed indifferently and deliberately done so. It would have been obvious to me what would happen, so it's tempting to mentalize some malevolence in that, but if anything that unfortunate shortcut could very well have been prompted by shortsighted urgency at the same awareness I have that those are the mothers who put their kids in UNENDING distress. Autistic people can't afford to abandon bits of truth when we find them as casually as others do. I was apparently diagnosed around age 10 asperger w/IG and left to (not) figure that out on my own. Which I did last year at 52. My family have known and exploited my autism tthe entire time. MDs and researchers remaining lost in the minutiae of if and when some other environmental factor than even maternal psychopathology is psychogenic or neurogenic to autism while mothers like mine are left to abuse kids they're already grooming not to advocate for themselves into becoming less able to see the forest for the trees instead of recognizing their mothers as abusers given how much hypocrisy is involved in autistic grooming to begin with would make anyone wonder-- Projection much? Our entire families use falsehoods to advance their own mediocrity at our expense. Medicine may have at one time been deliberately baited into following their leads. But that doesn't mean it still should be. Feels like being in The Truman Show Just saying. Clear to me the vast majority of autism is undiagnosed, unaware, and intellectually compensating with IQs over 130 generating our own self-esteem from the scrupulously objective sense of morality that's just more of the self-defeating selflessness to which we were groomed. Seems also pretty apparent higher IQ autism tending to be diagnosed when kids are older indicates it's having to deal with the extra abuse of not being disabled for them that causes the increase even if it begins as early as prompting hyperlexia. Could even have something to do with why a group of a thousand diagnosed autistic physicians haven't figured more of this out. I suspect NPD mothers' own developmental fixations predispose them to postpartum psychoses (wishing for the child to become "unborn"). Having had a mother like that I can tell you they don't think that's psychotic, so pretty obvo (at least to me) Munchausen by proxy is sequelae of untreated postpartum psychosis. Why would they seek treatment for chaos-as-usual? Pretty sure in cases of ASD mothers (again,of what use is the treatment if young adult autistic women are getting pregnant before individuating from their own mothers, as evidenced by) the mechanism of behavioral heritability being BPD as sequelae of postpartum psychosis that goes untreated, but possibly BECAUSE OF ALEXITHYMIA. BPD is the so-called dark empath and their kids do still end up autistic so whatever goes down is not good. And that they're diagnosed, treated, and STILL entering adulthood emotionally unseparated from their own mothers demonstrates the whole thing makes use of autistic kids and adult kids for our mothers' benefits.

[@REGjr]

Thank you for encouraging other physicians to consider autism, because almost certainly not differentiating catatonia (if there's an early-onset dementia perhaps it's schizophrenia) is precipitating the false confirmation of misdiagnoses in which contraindicated antipsychotics actually hasten decline. Nietzsche's sister sold tickets for people to listen to his palilalia from the next room because if you've met one person with autism you've probably met the one person in their whole family who won't steal your wallet and help you look for it. PS clearly Howard Hughes went out with autistic catatonia and diogenes syndrome is just undiagnosed autistic catatonia. Note they don't trust doctors. Good ol Diogenes. He made the best of ending up in a barrel because that's what one does (and more power to him for it), but his intellectually and morally enfeebled family put him there.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes🎉

[@raymierodgers4411]

Diagnose just last week. 48. 9 years of nightmare search. I’m a CEO and a patented inventor. But I don’t look Autistic???? Quite the revelation of self. Which I was already aware of lol. 🤯🫣😮‍💨 Keep fighting the good fight. Trusting the Lord your God. Death has no hold so self has no fear. J3:16 💙🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you Congratulations and welcome :)

[@breadandbucks9573]

Can we get access to the PPT? My Auadhd brain would like to go back to for reference

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

you can pause :)

[@derp195]

Strongly disagree that we're more vulnerable to propaganda. I think we're more used to being analytical when it comes to that sort of thing, and I often find myself dumbfounded that blatant, simplistic propaganda and advertisement strategies are effective on most people. We make fewer assumptions, and that bottom up approach disarms a lot of those attempts.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

I do not think I said that, if I did it was poorly expressed, I am sorry..it was a question....I agree that, because we (as autistic people) are often very logical and look at the details before the big pictures, we may be less sensitive to generalisations...hence to some form of propaganda...but we can also be more "black and white," sometimes more rigid and passionate in our beliefs and endeavours and, it is like for everybody else, it depends of our access to education, of being able to develop critical thinking, access to valid information etc....in an environment with censorship, propaganda and limited access to diverse perspectives, some people, including autistic people, may be more at risk for "propaganda"...but, again, there are all kind of autistic people as well as non autistic people...But in general, as Temple Grandin said, "autistic people have a good bullshit detector"...it is why we so often are also whistleblowers without even realizing it...:) Thank you for your comment

[@derp195]

@@bernadettegrosjean2365 Thanks for the response, it was unexpected. While I have your attention, I just want to say that I've watched several presentations of yours and I greatly appreciate your work. In particular, I think your position in regard to TikTok-style self-diagnosis is wise and measured in a field full of doctors who seem to search for ways to discredit their patients. It's sad to think of how many kids are laughed at and sent on their way just because their doctor has a bias (warranted or not) against a certain platform.

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

Thank you @@derp195

[@user-hq2nw9qq2v]

So if Mac/windows are neurotypical/neurodiverse, which is which?

[@bernadettegrosjean2365]

ah ah...in French we say "comparaison n'est pas raison" :) what do you think?...computers and their programs are still such simple rigid machines/systems compared to the complexity of our evolving human minds and bodies :)...different ways to receive inputs and treating them...I would not go further :)