Andor Against The Empire

[@samwonk]

This video is an attempt to engage with Andor on its own terms. The politics I find in Andor may not necessarily represent my own political views. As always, I welcome constructive discussion (as well as your adoration). If you find stuff in this media I don't, that's welcome - that's what I want most - but I will be proactive about removing hateful comments and stuff that's just relitigating Star Wars fights I'm not addressing here. Thanks for watching.

[@iakona23]

Have you ever considered the Empire as portrayed in the Andor series as a metaphor for the Russian Federation? FSB=ISB as a tool of conformity and colonialism directed against all of the non-russian ethnicities and nationalities and cultures within the russian Empire? The Duma, like the Imperial Senate, being a hollow institution where the elites are sent to rubber stamp the will of Putin (Emperor Palpatine). Etc. Etc.?

[@ParadoxEngineer]

I totally agree, this is the most Star Wars, Star Wars has been. In music, locations, cultures, technology, and altogether tone in excels. But where we disagree is where I think Andor's biggest strength is: patience. Yes you could do the prison break in one or two episode but that sequence is the biggest change in Andor's character. And the show doesn't cheat by simply saying "yep, he fights for himself his entire life using people left and right but now he's in jail for a week so he cares now." Instead the show goes through the full deveststing force that crushes Andor's philosophy. He can't just take what he can and survive another day, he's litterally working for the Empire, if he continues he will die serving the Empire. And it takes time to understand and evaluate that, and more time to change to accommodate it. So, we get to see him finally understand the cause and become a rebel. Like Andor said before the heist: "you couldn't sleep because you cared, I slept fine," the night of the breakout, Andor couldn't sleep.

[@EdDeezNuts944]

Exactly, I think that prison sequence was crucial to the show and well done

[@michaelajames99]

I think that the Rebellion’s lack of a clear goal is fitting because at this point they honestly don’t know. They instead work on creating the infrastructure that will be needed when the time comes. I also think that argument between Luthen and Saw Gerrera was more a political statement about infighting within social movements than an action to move the story along. I almost didn’t click on your video so I recommend a more colorful thumbnail but I loved this video and would suggest it to others.

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

Exactly. We know that the Rebellion was an alliance of a crap load of people with different backgrounds and goals (only until Mon Mothma took over the movement and transform into one that is supposed to restore the very Republic that is the reason why oppression exists in the Galaxy in the first place...) Nemik himself points out that the Rebellion is made out of just pure resistance against oppression. There is a lack of clear goal within the rebellion. That's why the New Republic fell.

[@thimovijfschaft3271]

Now I would like to see Star Wars explore the groups that joined the Rebellion that were victims of oppression under the Republic. Like how do they feel about the leader of their movement wanting to restore that very Republic that oppressed them

[@timhenley3602]

Actually, I thought the thumbnail was quite strong; it drew me in to a video I might have otherwise scrolled past.

[@samwonk]

This is a great comment, thanks. I just want to mention so it doesn't keep coming up over the entire future of this channel - I made the original thumbnail, that this comment is in relation to, in a hurry because I was going to be away from my computer for a few days, and the current thumbnail is different than the one this comment is in reference to.

[@vigilantenfdl4424]

Agree with OP about the Rebellion 's lack of a clear goal. At this point most of them are in the 'resistance' phase, where they know more clearly what they're fighting against than what they're fighting for. Mon and Luthen seem like the two looking forward to the endgame. Maybe Saw too.

[@1calv]

21:50 The idea that the rebellion in Andor references a Leninist vanguard party is made more interesting by the fact that the episode 6 heist was heavily inspired by one of the heists Stalin went on to raise money for the Bolsheviks.

[@GageEakins]

I mean there may be influences there. We don't really know what the economic ideals of the New Republic are. We do know that the Old Republic was a massively capitalist state that was on its way to fascism long before the machinations of Palpatine. I very much doubt the series is actually trying to compare those two though. The Soviet Union was never anything but a totalitarian state.

[@g.j.2950]

No it is. It is trying to compare those two. And the Soviet Union was far more complicated and interesting than the western propaganda line of "they are just a totalitarian state"

[@GageEakins]

@@g.j.2950 Not really. In the beginning sure there was a lot of potential. But once Stalin centralized power in himself and the central Presidium, there really was no going back. Destalinization didn't stop the country by being run by a series of strongmen that did some heavy ethnic cleansing of non-Russians on the side. Are there things in the Soviet Union that can be looked to for inspiration for policy such as their incredibly well-built public housing? Sure, but any country no matter how badly it is run or how shitty it is to live in, has some things that you can find lessons in.

[@zig38583]

​@@GageEakinsThere is a CIA document that has been declassified saying that Stalin was someone who practiced collective leadership. Please look into the topic more from non-state sponsored academics or anyone who's not a rabid anti-communist (liberals included). www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf Yes, countries that self-proclaim to be the Soviet Union's rival will probably make a lot of propaganda about it for obvious reasons. If you say its impossible for this to happen in a "free" country despite even in recent history proving otherwise, here's a joke for you: A CIA and a KGB agent walk into a bar and share a drink together. The CIA agent complements the KGB agent on the work he does, saying that everyone in the Union seems to believe the propaganda they're making. The KGB agent returns the complement, saying the US's propaganda is far and above what they have. The CIA agent stands up angrily and shouts, "There is no propaganda in the US!". The KGB agent replies with, "Exactly".

[@nicholasfalasco8539]

Tobe fair, tolaterianism is kind of a dumb, meaningless word. More accurately, the USSR was simply state based/controlled capitalism. Historically, what little people talk about when critiquing the soviets is the policies the Bolsheviks founded the society. Specifically, the counter faction policy I believed doomed them to hand the bag to Stalin. Hence the purges occurred. A strong movement must have some ideological contradictions to grow strong. E.g. Soc dems and commies in the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) having civil disagreements probably will bring life back into that small movement since the failures of the Bernie movement.@@GageEakins

[@katanrocksketches6717]

Overall, great video! I respect your time and effort in critiquing Andor. I have some (rather long) thoughts, but I hope they don't make it seem like I hated this video. I overall very much enjoyed your analysis, even if I didn't always agree with your points to their fullest extent! I disagree a bit about the usage of the Emperor in Andor as being a missed beat. The Emperor is not present in the story because he is, for all intents and purposes, not important to the experiences of oppression experienced by the individuals Andor follows. Sure, the Emperor is the all evil authoritarian, who, at the top, gives his orders and powers to fewer and fewer people. But what Andor, I think, is trying to say by the lack of his presence is that the Empire is so large that the experience of oppression is far stretch from his actual authority. He is, and will never be, aware of how the prison institution has been co-opted into authoritarian power or will never know about the forced movement of the Dhani from their highlands or about the encroachment of the Empire into Ferrix, only letting them experience certain facets of their culture in increasingly limited spheres, nor will he care. He is so high above these people that, though he is all-powerful, that authority is not felt by the vast majority of the galaxy. I think one of Andor's strength is to take a step back from these larger than life heroes and villains of the original trilogy for a story that is much more nuanced and grounded than a binary battle between light and dark. I think that his lack of presence is how Andor shows that his power is really, truly, hollow. A note on your point about culture. I do think that its usage can be shallow at times. But at the same time, I do think that culture is evoked more than the instances you talk about. It shows up in set design, in costuming, and other less explicit areas. On Ferrix, the culture is immediately understood when you see workers come in for the day, grabbing their work gloves that is clearly left out in the open, in the places these people hang out, in the understanding that there is a community that our characters interact with and rely on. On Aldhani, the culture is understood when Vel explains the forceful movement of people out of the highlands, and their disguises as local herders, which is certainly what the Dhani used to be before they were forcefully displaced. The Chandrilan are understood in a particular lens of the wealthy through Mon Mothma and her friends and family. I think in this specific instance, what is important to note is how Imperial power has co-opted what is seen as conservative Chandrilan culture as a way of controlling them. It's viewed as negative because what is shown of Chandrilan culture is what should have been eradicated long ago, but is maintained because of Imperial control. Yes, they're evoked at certain points, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. Like you said, the rebellion co-opts cultural practices for resistance because the Empire wants to homogenize culture to a specific set of practices they expect. The reason why the rebellion is so nebulous is that, at this time period, the rebellion is really just a bunch of small cells with no centralized communication system. It is alluded that that system is up, but it certainly is nowhere near large enough to be effective currently. People like to joke that Andor happens at the same time as Rebels season 1, where rebellion is just small pockets of resistance and only the smallest of connections between groups through spies that move information around to places that need it, with the groups getting little context for why their contact wants them to do something on a larger scale. Luthen is the only character that is tying these small cohorts together, and he is struggling. It will take years for the rebellion to grow to what it is in Rogue One and the original trilogy. This is why there is no unified goal, why there is no quantifiable size yet. I think it adds to a sense of desperation, and helps emphasize the question Andor is hoping to explore: how does one experience oppression, and how does one go from being just dissatisfied to becoming a rebel? Every person has a slightly different goal, and that makes creating an actually functioning rebellion incredibly difficult. This specific season is interested in the radicalization of individuals, of the beginnings of a rebellion because more and more people are becoming aware of just how much they are dissatisfied and are incentivized to go the extra mile and resist. I push back slightly on the idea that the rebellion is a mostly upper-class cohort trying to push the lower-class into uprising. Ferrix shows signs of resistance within the first few episodes of the show. I can agree that the show does not fully sell why Ferrix rebelled, but it's clear that the impact of important community figures is a part of that push towards resistance. Rebellion is currently being fought on multiple levels right now. It will take time for that to centralize. This season is more interested in the birth of the rebellion than how it functions, in pointing out how rebellion is formed, rather than answering the questions of why and size, which comes later. I do agree that the lack of Separatistism in the show is a huge miss. I think generally, Star Wars just forgets that the Separatists are a thing. It makes probably one appearance with the character that turned Bix in, where he joined the rebellion by going to a Separatist meeting of some sort and made the connection with Luthen there. But other than that, there is no whiff of it, which I think is a shame. Like you said, the Separatists were the first true rebels, against the Rebellion than anything else. It doesn't help that in the prequels, there is not enough time focused on the politics of the Separatists and why they are pushing for civil war. Sorry for such a long comment that is more rambling than anything substantial. Again, I greatly enjoyed this video. Thank you for taking the time to make it!

[@deanthemachine8879]

^this. Entirely this.

[@cameroncross20]

Ferrix had been feeling the oppression for a while. Cassian's father was hung on the street. I think that was him mother's point. They were comfortable because they had each other but now the oppression, because of Cassian, had truly showed up to their home, instead of just being a known entity in other places or rare encounter at home that would leave as soon as arriving. I think the closeness of the community, you pointed out that was shown with the gloves scene, made it so the rebellion happen quicker as well. It was a matter of time. They could only take so many times of seeing their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, ... being harmed before it was over. And the instability in some of the citizens combined, speech from the funeral, and the disrespect that drew set everything off.

[@timhenley3602]

The Rebellion's lack of clarity and cohesion in Andor fits if you really think about it. It's just in the beginning stages and its trying desperately to put all the pieces together. By the time we get to Rogue One and a New Hope, its more organized simply because they've had more time to pull things together.

[@CableAnna]

I cannot recommend this series enough. It’s a masterpiece!

[@krixpop]

AMEN to that !

[@RosDalton]

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.” What I take from the show is that all governments inevitably creep towards authoritarianism as allowed by the reasonable indifference of a population whose needs are met sufficiently. The move from Republic to Empire was a mostly bloodless coup, eliminating the equivalent of the Praetorian guard or Jannisaries while the population slept on heedless. Only a select few can see what’s coming clearly, and of that few they each have vastly different and competing ideologies and motivations to resist. The story is about how our common man, CA, who has survived reasonably well on his own becomes so battered by the ever encroaching force of authoritarianism that the only remaining path to survival is resistance. That feels very authentic to me. Historically populations will tolerate immense amounts of totalitarian control as long as they get enough to eat and safety for their families. They’ll quite rationally go to great lengths not to have to put their lives on the line against the power of the state… but in the end it is inevitable that the wheel will get around to grinding you and your choice becomes to risk the attempt to break the wheel or to climb high enough up it to escape being crushed as it rolls over your fellows. Andor is my favorite Star Wars media. It captures exactly what was brilliant about the theme of the original series.

[@rafaelmarkos4489]

Your idea of resistance becoming redemptive, wiping our slate with each other clean, adds a lot to Vader's sacrifice at the end of Ep 6 - his moral slate is undoubtedly still stained, but his sacrifice wipes his slate with Luke clean, and they are able to connect and find peace in a way they couldn't before. Arguably, this is why Luke cremates Anakin alone - he is the only one who can even come close to seeing his father as 'redeemed'.

[@wiggins_tv]

please accept this unfettered praise!

[@Freelancer4tehwin]

"Leninist Vanguard Party" ... You mean, like, the American Revolution, many of whose initial acts were coordinated between wealthy land owners and proto-industrialists? Gilroy isn't a tankie, and the idea of the disenfranchised by comfortable acting as a catalyst for what they perceive as inevitable conflict is not the unique domain of Marxist-Leninist ideology. When John Brown leads the raid at Harper's Ferry, or the wealthy back both sides of Bleeding Kansas as they consider it an essential inflection point in the abolition fight, those acts share the same essential theme. It is, of course, the logical extension of the notion that not all those in power approve their systems - and not all those who disapprove can afford to resist. And so, you push, and push, and push until the system becomes such that no amount of ducking your head can save the common man from enough grief to make it a preferable course of action to rebellion.

[@christiangoerz8815]

Wow... after 23minutes nice and good analysis you come to some very good points: the lack of the history of seperatism is something I hear here for the first time. And you are right. That would have been a masterful interweaving with the prequals.

[@BeezeeChutter]

The scene with Luthen’s ship against the Cantwell Class Imperial Star Destroyer is a visual metaphor that can best be summed up as “the more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.” And also playing on Star Wars’ prominent visual metaphor of large oppressors vs the small and oppressed. Luthens unassuming cargo ship, which is secretly equipped to the teeth with so many weapons and upgrades and it even has a hyperdrive installed, lulls them into a false sense of security. He plans his escape thoughtfully, setting up tractor beam countermeasures, using a fake incidental thruster burn to disguise the heat the counter measures emit when they are beating armed, goes full throttle despite the fact it wouldn’t actually let him escape but it makes the empire think that’s all that he’s doing and so they counter by increasing the tractor force up to max. Now that the tractor force is up to max power the counter measure against them will be more effective as they are relying on that pull to be damaging. This is showing the empire attempt to exert oppressive control and in the process be defeated as a direct result of that exertion.

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

I think the Mothma Vel twist isn't exactly a small galaxy problem. It is motivated. Gilroy has mentioned in interviews how they worked against having contrivances. Obviously first and foremost it is a writer's plot contrivance, but it's certainly on the justifiable and reasonable end. It's not that Mon is our tritagonist, and she happens to be related to another important rebel. It's that Mothma is connected to Luthen, Luthen is connected to Mothma. Luthen being connected to a family member of Mothma is just an extension of that. I take the reading that Luthen the dealer knows rich people, perhaps he knew Vel as is indicated by him being implied to have more history with her. So maybe Vel brought Mon to the table for Luthen. The trust of family blood means the secret of rebellion can be entrusted to relatives more easily. That Vel and Mon are in this network together makes sense. Additionally, the small number of handshakes to get from one person to the other seems intentional too. Andor the footsoldier to Mon the future chancellor is 2. The rebellion here truly does seem small, that's the point. It's all disparate. Not unified. Untrusting. Cells haven't been linked (something you say the show doesn't tackle. But it does, just not fully I agree. "50 men" turns out to be important. One Saw Gurerra is a big deal to Luthen's scale.) This is one of Luthen's little worlds.

[@simmyjester]

YES. That is my only major gripe with Andor: Not enough aliens!

[@TheSpeep]

Overall, solid video. There are a number of points I agree with, but also a bunch I disagree or have small issues with. One thing you seem to have missed is that Cassian's childhood community probably wasnt so much a nomadic one as you seem to suggest, but instead one ripped from its original home and culture by the colonial violence of the Republic. Because while it isnt exactly stated outright in the show, the flashbacks from his childhood are littered with signs to that effect; Cassa's "tribe" is notably lacking in adult members, with even the oldest ones looking to be maybe 16-17 years old at most, clearly something happened relatively recently that tore these children away from their parents or any other adult members of the population, whatever the specifics, it likely was something to do with the massive quarries and mining equipment scarring the planet's landscape. Furthermore, despite them living in huts in the forest, they are almost entirely dressed in strangely modern clothing, no natural materials, no hand sewn fabrics, all of it synthetic but old and worn, and their tools too arent made from rocks, sticks and twine, instead a lot of it appears to be scrap metal or literal garbage. When that Republic ship crashes on their planet, Cassa's sister seemingly tries to call for its attention, but Cassa and the older kids seem much less trusting of it all, and he tells her to stop. While we arent given any explicit details, its pretty clear these kids are orphans and refugees on their own planet, separated from their home and culture by the encroachment of an already pretty callous and exploitative imperialistic system that does not see them as its members, nor cares for them, even before it turned into the fully fascistic and totalitarian Empire we know.

[@GageEakins]

I very much have to disagree with you on Mon Mothma's scenes. Not only do they present some very important insight into the elite of the galaxy, they offer an idea of how the leadership of the rebellion is connected to the old republic. They also do a lot of character building for her, which will certainly pay off in Season 2.

[@FuriosoDrummer]

I agree broadly with your points about length, especially the prison arc. I get the feeling that Mon Monthma is setting up a lot of groundwork for season 2 and they may have felt they needed all of it, but I have nothing to back that up besides vague intuition.

[@andreakimmel6651]

It's great to see Star Wars content that understands both the potential and the challanges of not just the medium, but the story as a whole. Theirs plenty of SW critism on youtube, but this was SO refreshing in how you examined the story within the context of both this story's place in the narative, and it's potential to move foreward.

[@iamaspacecalf]

I really enjoy the insights you put into these analyses. Specifically how you all relate them to a a wider world context, rather than just internally. I specifically enjoyed your Matrix video, but this one was really good as well. I know you don't have tons of views, but I really appreciate all the work you put into them, and I will keep attempting to share them among people I know.

[@mugiwaranoramen1363]

A little add on The Death Star scene Luthen talk about the fact that there has never been a weapon made that wasn't used with Mon Mothma after the Aldhani heist when she starts to doubt the rebellion. Maybe they were talking about the network they have build and the rebellion but on a second watch it might about the death star and it was the final stroke that sparked the fight against the empire( or the republic not knowledgeable of SW timeline). Cause it's most interesting for Luthen to talk about the death star as a weapon that will be used than the rebellion ( it will be childish to say that they will absolutely use it cause they made it)

[@AlbinoMutant]

The show was pretty good. I think it has a lot to do with the writing, but there is another reason. This is the first Star Wars project that really gives us a view into daily life in the Empire. I mean, we get exposed to the daily routine of blue collar workers trying to make a living far beneath the notice of the super-heroic or super-villainous figures we are usually following. These are just regular people ,some of whom end up doing heroic things. Heroes doing heroic things makes a different sort of story.

[@jibkat]

I heard unfettered praise is back in style!

[@jaiclary8423]

Truly excellently done. There are a lot of takes on Andor. I watch them all and this is one of the best.

[@patrickallenjohnston]

Crap i'm gonna have to watch Andor now. Good job!

[@dearyvettetn4489]

This is one of the first critical reviews of Andor that I’ve seen and I’m not mad at it. Thanks. No story is perfect but pointing out flaws and actually supporting those points validly goes a long way to getting fans to not dismiss you as a garden variety hater, which the internet is infested with.

[@mggirard13]

I think Andor is great. But it certainly has flaws. The biggest for me was Mon Mothma. Like the author said, her entire story, every second she spent on screen, was entirely disconnected from the story of Andor. That said, I disagree with the criticism of the lack of connection to the prequel events (people having just lived through the separatist movement, the Civil War, etc) as I see Andor as attempting in many ways and at many opportunities to do its best to ignore the prequels for the chance to tell a great Star Wars story.

[@F1FanCanuck]

great video… one of the best analysis of Andor I’ve seen. An intelligent take on a refreshingly intelligent piece of Star Wars media.

[@bofhcabbit]

This was a great watch, thank you for making this!

[@BeezeeChutter]

I absolutely disagree with shaving down Andor in any way. In my opinion we are too obsessed with art being too precise and never staying in any one place for too long and never repeating anything or having any elements that do not seem to immediately connect, but in my opinion all of those things are a terrible standard that is reflective of the capitalist, value based, societal views on art! It is these things that make Andor great! And I’d argue it is what actually made a film like Rogue One pretty bad because it wasn’t willing to stop and take a breather and explore something, everything not immediately and obviously essential had to be shaved down. Personally I was hooked and enthralled with Andor for every second! In my opinion Andor doing all of these things that traditional stories that fall in line with capitalist value based standards on art would never do, is simply it conforming to its own standards and on that level it has merit. I believe that if a work of art has a different standard/practice of engagement that it asks of viewers, but any particular viewer has a specific standard/mode of engagement that they enjoy, that people are legitimately allowed to criticize art for not being in line with its standards. But I set this mode of philosophy this way because it also allows for critique of peoples standards and within this model other standards are legitimate in their own way. I’ve been thinking about this a lot the more I’ve engaged with art and found art that I love that others don’t and found art I don’t like but others do. I wanted to make a philosophical rule of engagement with art that would basically not be too morally relativistic to essentially not allow criticisms, but to not be too morally objectivist to effectively not be able to criticize standards.

[@Torus2112]

Tony Gilroy has said that one of the creative opportunities which made him interested in doing the show was the fact that doing a rebellion story in a fictional setting allowed him to draw inspiration from real life rebellions and revolutions while still having the freedom to tell an original story. With that in mind I'm sure there's some Russian Revolution in there, but probably also some French Revolution, some WW2 partisans, some Algerian War, etc.

[@zljmbo]

You are awesome, I subscribed immediately. I'm ready to witness your future success

[@Pintoman101]

Its always refreshing to find people who actually understand the politics of the Prequels, albeit they were poorly executed in the films themselves

[@itsthatwhale]

Nemik is the best character in alll of fiction, change my mind

[@mishapurser4439]

I'd love to see an indepth thematic analysis like this on some Star Trek episodes such as DS9's two part Past Tense

[@BOKCGrizzlyWarlord]

I’m not gonna lie, the areas like ferrix and coruscant remind me of what life in a Soviet-style regime would’ve turned out

[@bethm2004]

So confession: I'd watched the first few episodes of Andor and gotten a bit bored of it, because it is overly long, has at least one too many subplots, and I'm not particularly interested in heists, which is what the Eye was promising to be. This is what made me actually finish it. And I think your analysis is (as usual) spot on, both in terms of how these systems of power do or don't fit together as well as the Leninist vanguard underpinnings to the Rebellion. I am very interested to see your commentary on Twilight and fanfiction.

[@Xafty]

the highest praise i can give anything related to star wars is just this: this video made me care about star wars for just over 30 minutes, and thats just amazing. great video, i dont like anything star wars, but for these 30 minutes, i kinda did.

[@someguy3167]

Even though I do disagree with quite a few of your points, I love the point you made about how the show should have had more of the lived history. The Clone wars and Separatism should be a huge part of The Empire's political rhetoric. There were a few lines about some people attending a separatist meeting, and Saw having beef with separatist, but it should have been a major part of the show and wasn't. If we get into the minds of imperial political rhetoric, Rebels should be called something like Crypto-separatist, Grievousites, system nationalists, and the fact that some of their members were separatist would be used to discredit them. But none of that happens and I agree that it's a missed opportunity that would have made the world feel very real. Unrelated, but on political analysis I disagree with the idea that the Rebels in Andor are shown to be a ML vanguard party. I would point to earlier in Russian history and say their tactics are more closely aligned with early Russian anarchist movements. One example being Narodnaya Volya (People's Will). EDIT: (TBH the more I looked back at it the Rebels in Andor are a lot like People's Will IMO.) The Rebellion focuses more on a propaganda of the deed, trying to get the Empire to overreact, and inspire citizens to rise up by taking out key targets publicly, while organizing privately with no central authority guiding them. An ML vanguard party would be much more centrally planned with it's own internal governing body to start with, and focus more on organizing people to rise up on their own before pulling off attacks like at Aldhani.

[@boonj5038]

What a great video. Excellent commentary

[@Stratocumulus25]

Pardon, but Timm was not "emasculated" by Andor, as he thought (incorrectly) that he was being challenged or supplanted by him.

[@IshtarNike]

Yep. It's only emasculating if you subscribe to the old fashioned notion that "your woman" can't be friends with her ex without it being "humiliating" for you.

[@BeezeeChutter]

“These things don’t need to be storyline. But, mentioning these kinds of things would make the world seem more real and inform the overall argument of the show.” Ehhhhhhhhh, I disagree with this at a point. To start, I don’t think this position is inherently wrong. Having people mention the two sides of the Clone War conflict as a way of subtly showing their thought process and then using that stated conflict, paired with the subtle undertones of what people are actually thinking, then finally putting all of those pieces together in a way that says something wholly greater than the sum of its parts is a good thing. I’d argue this sort of thing is in so many places in Star Wars and that it’s a good thing and that it’s sad a lot of people don’t see that. Things like the reoccurring “Nooo!” All throughout George Lucas’ Star Wars to represent the making of a terrible mistake and suffering harsh consequences: Luke acting like the impatient and brash hero of A New Hope instead of a patient and calm Jedi, leading him to lose his hand just before learning of his lineage that of which also implies his other potential future of turning to the dark side: “I want to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like my father” “I, am your father.” “Nooo!” “Join me, and we can rule the galaxy as father and son!” Anakin believing Palpatine is the only one who can save Padme from his nightmares, in an act of impulsive emotion, slices off the hand of Mace Windu “Nooo!” to defend Palpatine until Palpatine kills Windu, putting Anakin at the point of no return. After Anakin’s turn to Darth Vader, all he asks is to know the well being of Padme, the very person he had turned to the dark side for, only to be told she died by his wrathful hand, “Nooo!” Then, finally, wrapping it all up, with Anakin returning from being Vader, he is given the chance to undo the evil he had made in saving Palpatine and turning to the dark side, “Nooo!” To save his son. Star Wars gets a _lot_ of mileage out of its dialogue, unfortunately people don’t recognize that and think it’s dumber because it’s not following a guild line not a rule of “show don’t tell” not understanding that Lucas’ dialogue actually shows more than it tells, _but I digress._ This isn’t the only way in which Star Wars communicates, it communicates a lot of its themes with the reliance on the audience to have to look at the whole context of the situation and compare it with real life to really understand. I had a revelation about the Separatist Alliance in Attack of the Clones, that they were essentially a bunch of rich corporations trying to create a libertarian state in order to enact as much corporate power as they wish. Who are the named leaders of the Separatist movement in that film? The Trade Federation, The Techno Union, and The Banking Clan, with talks about bringing The Commerce Guild into the fold. All of them, captains of industry, building an army so that they can create a libertarian state because libertarianism tries to cut down on social government control to let free market capitalism ensue as I understand it. Hell, The Trade Federation being apart of this alliance is a very important detail, because in the last film, The Phantom Menace, they were essentially stopped in a plot to secretly obtain control of one of the Senators planets, a plot mind you that only kicked off because they were angry over being taxed by The Galactic Republic and losing that amount of capital, I also assume the reason for wanting control of Naboo was so that they would obtain abundant energy resources because Naboo had those giant laser tube things in the Darth Maul fight environment that I think implies they are some energy rich planet, so that they could gain more capital. They were only stopped because they failed to actually pull it off and because of that the bureaucracy of The Galactic Republic was able to actually enforce their ground. So it’s no wonder that The Trade Federation would want to create a new governing state that would essentially give them free rein to resources without having to answer to anyone. All of this, mind you, not a word is spoken of it. They do not say they’re creating a libertarian state, and in all honesty it doesn’t actually have to be a libertarian state it could be anything that puts them at the top rung of power but I think it is most likely they’re creating a libertarian state because they already have so much wealth and resource that they would dominate before anyone else gets a chance to, but I believe that’s just looking at the films alone and looking at real life that these ideas can be reasonably interpreted. I believe it’s Lucas’ ability to convey so many ideas in a combination of subtext and just straight up text allows for so much more to be taken from these films. Did I uh… did I mention I love Star Wars?..

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

What do you mean by "produces culture a couple minutes before using it"? Typically in films the runtime means precisely that always happens, because there's no other way to do it. It's typically fine. Andor is a series, so it has the room to do the opposite. Which is seeking what you want. I think it uses that room very well. I don't understand why you think Kenari is relevant to your point, they barely have a culture and it's barely relevant to the plot. But it is without a doubt organically introduced and applied fluidly. There's no manufacturing and abuse of it. As for Ferrix, I disagree again. The culture is lived in and well thought out, many details aren't plot relevant at all yet they beautifully serve the wider themes and worldbuilding. The details that are relevant are once again organically setup and no they are simply not in fact introduced minutes before being used. Clocktower, main road, daughters of Ferrix, funeral stones, community, solidarity, etc. None fit your description. The marching band is the only one that fits, yet I don't see how it's bad. For one thing they play in the episode's intro theme. Generally speaking, this point of yours sounded weirdly cynical and ridiculous to me. That's all.

[@JoshPearcetheGreat]

insightful as always. wish I had something to add, but alas, you only get praise from me

[@ethanorange3705]

I glad to find a reference to star wars strange ability to evoke experiences that you feel you've experienced or seen before. even though the film, itself, was complete dross, the emperor's sith planet in the rise of skywalker actually gave me an otherworldly feeling of de ja vu.

[@Fractured_Unity]

Disney is so arrogant that they could never imagine that someone like the Andor writers could be among them. Be in their production studio, take their funding, and use their marketing machine. All to produce something with a message so fervently against their own interests with their own tools. Andor is art on so many levels, especially in the irony of the corporate environment it was created.

[@melanienolley]

Brilliantly put!

[@emberthecatgirl8796]

The lack of aliens in Andor is actually a thing across the Empire, “high human culture”. Even though a big part of it is happening on a backwater-ish planet, it’s not backwater enough for the Empire not force nonhumans out of.

[@helgakrobo]

As someone who's lived in Russia - e.g. an authoritarian state until very very recently, I honestly appreciated Mon Mothma's whole deal: cowardly, ineffectual legal rights liberalism is what rises to the surface when all forms of political organizing are suppressed, and even they might possibly fall under the axe if they get inconvenient enough. The tension between groups that basically got it made in a vastly unjust society (and just want access to levers of power and a slightly nicer face to repression) and those who want it all torn down is also great.

[@ImVeryOriginal]

When did Russia *stop* being an authoritarian state, exactly? There was a brief moment of liberalisation in the early 90's, but then Putin's rise quickly put an end to that.

[@restitvtororbis5330]

​@@ImVeryOriginal I have close friends from Russia who were children in the 90s, and it's difficult to push them to relive that time to describe it. Soviet authoritarianism of the 80s was nothing compared to the economic and societal chaos of the 90s. I'm American and can't pretend to know what they truly felt, but even though each one came to hate putin in their own way, none would have chosen the chaotic liberalism of the 90s over putin. I say this to get across the fact that the 'liberalism' of Russia in the 90s, to those that i know personally, was just everything that authoritarianism keeps under control. Authoritarianism can't become liberalism overnight, even over years sometimes. The 'liberalization' of Russia, from the accounts of all the Russians I know, was chaos and poverty to the point where authoritarianism could return just because it could bring some level of stability again. My closest Russian friend is horrified and ashamed of her country now, and even though she would proudly gun down putin herself, she still says that his authoritarianism stopped the hellish poverty she was raised in

[@ImVeryOriginal]

@@restitvtororbis5330 Oh I absolutely believe that, I can imagine the "liberalisation" was basically a free pass for American corporations to wreak havoc on the economy, with western companies, mafias and future oligarchs grabbing every state property that wasn't bolted to the table. I come from Poland, where a similar, although perhaps less drastic process occured - millions of people lost their jobs, getting pushed into poverty and forgotten, while private enterprise bought out state property for pennies. The resentment towards "liberal elites" of the time is also fueling right-wing, authoritarian politics, even if not to the same extreme.

[@d15p4tch6]

Dang that's some deep stuff

[@originaldarkwater]

While I agree that it might make sense for the Separatists not to appear completely forgotten, this show takes place fairly close to the beginning of ANH, where, of course, there was no mention of Separatists at all. It wouldn't fit well for the Empire to be talking about Separatists in this show only to have ANH make no mention of them at all only a couple of years later. Also, I would think that taking about Separatists would be a double-edged sword for Palpatine, possibly encouraging someone look into them a little closer and discover that Palpatine was in control of them the whole time. Better to just bury any mention of them under the guise of "healing the galaxy and promoting unity".

[@beatsbywoods8388]

I really liked Andor and Rogue One but I have to disagree with you when you say it looks More StarWars than the other StarWars (I get your point even if I didnt quote exactlly). My disagreement is when I think StarWars no matter where you are whether its a huge metropolis, a populated desert city, a spaceport on an Ocean World or a civilized jungle town in the trees your going to see more Aliens than Humans (unless your employed by the Empire for some reason they only hire Humans and Ugnauts but they are more indentured servent than employees) I wondered if it was to help with the budget of Andor to not have to spring for the Massive make-up department thats needed for a StarWars story but it was almost offensive to have seen as many new and old worlds that were in the show but have so few characters that were not Human. I mean seriously the first place Andor goes is into a Brothel and there isnt 1 Twi'lek girl, Im calling BS, its like Ryloth schools have 2 courses for their females either Dancing or Hooking.

[@pseudonymousbeing987]

The empire is canonically racist but against non humans. Speciesist. We see that on coruscant with how humans are the majority on the well controlled surface, and when Lonni descends lower into the lawlessness beneath there are far more aliens. My impression from even the original films that humans are overwhelmingly the largest group.

[@SenorChubbs420]

Han Solo does not shoot Vader…

[@originaldarkwater]

What makes you think the ship Andor finds as a child is a Republic ship? The design of all the interior panels etc. clearly echo the designs seen on the Death Star and other Imperial ships.

[@reesepiecesofpoodoo]

im pretty sure the people who crashed on kassa’s planet had separatist flags on their uniforms

[@gregv2k]

Climb!

[@mpalfadel2008]

ISB wasn’t made up of prior Republic Intelligence Agency officials ISB was created as the security arm of Compnor Compnor or the Commission for the Preservation of the New Order, was created by Imperial Advisor Crueya Vandron Imperial Intelligence, (the professional bureau as opposed to ISB amateurs), was created from the union of the four Republic intelligence services.