Andrea Dworkin Pornography: Men Possessing Women discussed by Lierre Keith and Marian Rutigliano

[@cactusdaisy]

“When I was a teenager nobody was choking each other and calling it sex” as a woman in her mid-20s, this absolutely blew my mind and made me incredibly sad. Violence during sex has become so normalised I think many women my age (including me) have not had a sexual experience with a man which WASN’T violent. Thank you for everything do, thank you for continuing to speak out. I am grateful you have opened my eyes to the world we live in.

[@marjoriekaye9336]

My heart is breaking from this comment.

[@Ihateyoumarxistpigs]

It's hasn't been normalized...perhaps you're just bedding assholes

[@beatrixkiddvideo2404]

Brilliant discussion of a brilliant woman’s brilliant work. The example of Iceland outlawing strip clubs shows the mechanics of what women truly want WHEN THEY HAVE REAL CHOICES, and it’s also a beam of hope. Thank you, thank you, thank you both.

[@daughter_of_earth]

I lost my father when I was in my early 20s, but I do remember him telling me that all men are animals, marry a kind man. I have come back to reflect on that comment in later years.

[@marjoriekaye9336]

Keith is right about being armed by reading Dworkin. I'm so grateful to all the feminist writing that I devoured in my early 20s.

[@tumblebugspace]

“The Basement” by Kate Millet was the book my second wave lesbian feminist eldest sister shared with me when I was twelve. It was about fifteen year old Silvia Likens, who was tortured and starved to death by her female guardian and a group of juveniles in Indianapolis, Indiana in the ‘60’s. It certainly affected me deeply. I never wore the womanface probably because of that book. Just never got the desire to paint myself up for ’em, is all. Got a copy each of Dworkin’s “WomanHating” “Pornography” and “Intercourse.” I’m reading them in that order of publishing date, after Sheila Jeffreys “Trigger Warning” which I started after reading “Beauty and Misogyny.” Thanks for the excellent discussions and suggestions for further reading!

[@dragonfox2.058]

everyone should check out ONE MRA channel and see what the mens really think of us holes. If you aren't radical yet........

[@beatrixkiddvideo2404]

Yep. Dip your toes into the cesspool of what men say to other men when they think women can’t hear them. Move on, with great caution, to viewing every genre of porn. It’s not just a minority of men who view the humiliation and abuse of women because it gets them off. It’s one of the most profitable industries on earth - which means that either a few very degenerate rich men are paying customers, or MANY, MANY degenerate men are paying customers. This includes every man you know, without exception, no matter what they tell you. The number of men I knew/know PERSONALLY who were living double lives is disturbing. Next, go on forums where women who work/ed in this industry talk amongst themselves. Don’t talk, just hear their endless stories. The easiest way to find out a man’s real nature is to refuse to do the things he wants and set IRON-CLAD boundaries. Just try telling a man “No.” Even the “nice guys” will find ways to take revenge on you, whether it’s aggressively or passive-aggressively.

[@monicac9430]

What is an mra channel?

[@janelliot5643]

@@monicac9430 Men's Rights Activists, I call them the He-man Woman-hater Club (it's from Little Rascals)

[@edricawebb1578]

@@beatrixkiddvideo2404 "This includes every man you know, without exception, no matter what they tell you." I worked for a commercial sheet metal company in my mid-twenties, that was contracted with other companies (Electricians, Dry Wall, Pipe Fitters, etc.) to build a high rise office building downtown-- which means that I was working with all men, of several different types of trades. I was the only woman. And they either continually forgot I was there, or they didn't care because I was the only one... so I heard them say a great many things that most women will not only never hear, but would never believe they would say. To say the least, it was very Eye Opening. And what I learned was, "This includes every man you know, without exception, no matter what they tell you."

[@beatrixkiddvideo2404]

edrica webb if you have a blog, I’ll subscribe to it. If you write a book, I’ll buy it. It’s a real wake-up call when you stumble across that painful knowledge, isn’t it? The problem is that women see it - we just convince ourselves that it’s only “those” men, over there. Not “our” men. It’s ALL men. Every woman should face up to and share this information. We should be teaching it to our daughters, and not just by saying “Don’t talk to strange men.” It’s our brothers, our fathers, our husbands, our sons. They can act like stand up guys (maybe) in some areas of their lives, but SOMEWHERE, at SOME TIME, they’re all treating some woman like shit.

[@raylorman2193]

Everywoman on earth should watch this conversation.

[@CatherineKarena]

The PDF is online of the book - archive.org/details/PornographyMenPossessingWomenAndreaDworkinPdf/mode/2up

[@lskipski5023]

Fantastic series and thank you to Jo and team. I look forward every week to a new book review/education... Joined the Rad Fem crew as I'm no longer able to "tolerate this any more"...

[@laurettaleone6482]

Thanks for talking about all of this. Also , thanks for talking about the "transition" into KNOWING...and HOW PAINFUL IT IS.... ugh. So grateful to hear validation around this. Also, it comes with a LOT of backlash from friends and family. SAD/Heartbreaking. Uhg. Thanks for allowing it to be SAID. We need to keep moving forward...it is the only place of HOPE that things can change and move out of this old damaging patriarchal system. Thanks for all you two are doing...and the others in this group. This leadership is a miracle!

[@laurettaleone6482]

Thanks also for talking about our son's and trying to raise them, but they are enveloped in patriarchy so much so, they oppress their mother, when they get to a certain age. I remember saying to my son "you can't hear me". I asked my husband to say to my son, what I was saying, and my son said "well why didn't you say that?" My husband and I looked at each other, in disbelief. We did not understand patriarchy back then. I had not studied it. I just knew something was SADLY wrong. I also, was an Early Childhood Educator, where we talked about raising boys different. To allow them ALL emotions, even crying etc. And I lost connection to my son. He could not hear me and then more oppressive things just added on, from there. And my daughters would then slide to his side and push to keep me in a BOX, in an oppressive BOX...and when I dare to BE a full human being they PUNISH ME/ GHOST ME/ use blackmail...use the grandchildren. Heartbreaking. This is deeply programmed. It took me a lot to deprogram. For NOW, I am moving forward out. I am not succumbing to the siege. It is deeply painful , but I can't reconcile enabling a system that did so much damage to me and most every womyn I know. Only one was not raped. ONE..out of all my female friends. That is the rape stuff..not the battery or FEAR inducing behaviours for CONTROL, and POWER 'over" stuff. I am grateful to FINALLY KNOW what this is...and deeply SAD, that no one educated us. No one had the courage, the tribe, the will to know and learn and share. Thanks for being leaders in this.

[@minakshibastapure2254]

Thank you so much for this discussion.

[@LR2894h]

As a mom, I saw the proliferation of porn on cable TV and the internet in the early 2000s. I asked the school district what they were doing to prevent kids from accessing porn in the computer labs. They didn't have much. But once smart phones hit with discounted family plans and no options to keep kids on flip phones, kids were watching porn at sleepovers. 🙁

[@llunavermella_bloodmoon]

Can you please enable authomatic subtitles? Thank you.

[@marjoriekaye9336]

" I got the last chopper out of 'nam" Seriously.

[@nehakiran525]

thank you. this book is mind shattering. she is a brilliant deconstructionist of the modern day p0rngraphy

[@LR2894h]

I never knew the WPA paid women directly instead of their husbands or sons. Makes sense, but can you site your source? I can't find a source for this when I google and I would love to share the source.

[@llunavermella_bloodmoon]

12:50 what was the exact name of this program so I can research it?

[@Larkarran]

Works Progress Administration (WPA), later renamed Work Projects Administration

[@Jacobxiong613]

Where did you get the idea that women transition to maleness because of a desire to escape from female disadvantage? There is no evidence of this in relation to gender dysphoria

[@incementi]

Great discussion minus the transphobia

[@LT-et5rr]

It’s not trans’phobic’. It’s reality.

[@FirstPlace100]

men cannot be women. women cannot be men :)

[@ggk9828]

I wanted to ask the women in these comments, does anyone recognize kink and it's possibilities? This isn't to belittle or detract from the problem of violence in p**n and sex but there most certainly is a small, if a bit odd to the rest of us (but no judgment), who enjoy that kind of thing. It's a great way to build trust and comfort with a partner. How would we differentiate between such and the actual violence? My suggestion would be content warnings and affirmative statements on kink in p**n. What say ye?

[@LR2894h]

All public porn is harmful to society. Do whatever you want in private, but the sale and public distribution of porn, especially the proliferation and access to it on phones, has normalized a vice and has hyper sexualized adults, and children who are accessing it at 7 years old and younger.

[@badgerarmy966]

and yet lierre centres men every time over women and blocks women who do not laud jensen. strange.

[@KaliMaaaaa]

I don't know about that but her speciest unscientific book that attempts to discredit vegans and justify her own flesh eating is what troubles me. How any environmentalist can justify and promote killing animals for food is insane enough, for a feminist not to understand the connection between the oppression of animals and women is really mind blowing. To promote "meat" goes to the core of pure patriarchal violence and entitlement, to not only use another being but to take his/her life, all because you have been socialized into it and believe you have a right to do so. It's also telling that she refuses to enter into any public discussions with vegans or acknowledge the many false "facts" and anti science in her book. Carol J Adams and her work would be a great panel discussion topic with Lierre.

[@kalloohoyo6333]

@ badger army, that would make her an agent. I don't know enough to have an opinion about that. That is something that needs to be discussed and out in the open: agents and infiltrators. I know women who f men are always to be suspicioned-theyll likely be influenced. I do know one thing-everything will fall correctly into place for authentic women. It's like Solanas said, it's really between the real women and the c*k suckers, because men have no power on their own.

[@raylorman2193]

How so? What happened? I'm curious