The TRAGEDY of Total War's Avoidable Death

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This is a sad video to have to make, but one I feel the need to create either way. Total War is fighting for its life, shaking from a Creative Assembly that's struggling after grave financial hits, and the recent release of Total War Pharaoh, a game that's performing worse than any other Total War title in the series.
There is a bright future for Total War out there somewhere, I'm certain of this, but it won't happen if Creative Assembly continues to act the way it has, if they continue to refuse to listen to player feedback, and if they don't quickly move to create and refine a new engine for this series. The popularly called Warscape engine has long since outlived its uses for this series, but it was evident ever since Empire and Rome 2, now 10 and 14 years ago, that this iteration of the engine was an overall bad thing when compared to the glory days of Rome Total War and Medieval 2 Total War.
Creative Assembly desperately needs to show that it listens to player feedback, it desperately needs to realize that the Total War community are passionate people with the desire to continue their love affair with this series, but that it won't do so on any term. The Pharaoh debacle has shown that players can indeed vote with their wallets, and as has been proven on Steam with the Warhammer 3 Shadows of Change DLC and now Total War Pharaoh, they will also make their voices heard in the review section.
The tragedy of the Total War series is that its decline and possible end is so utterly avoidable. Its players crave more of it, and they are vocal about what they want to see. And yet, Creative Assembly seems to refuse to listen to them, and have yet to give a word or a hint that decades long anticipated games like Total War Medieval 3, Total War Empire 2, and perhaps even Total War Rome 3, might be in the works.
In this video, I give my simple advice to Creative Assembly on how they can turn this ship around and save this series they've cultivated a massive audience for in the past 20 years, and which has become so important to so many, myself included. And of course, as always, no hate, only love.
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#totalwarpharaoh #totalwar #deathoftotalwar #totalwar2023

[@AndysTake]

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[@owainevans89]

I've been playing war thunder instead of total war for months now.

[@johnybravo4807]

new engine is must i mean new total war games don't even have fsr or dlss that's sad in 2k23 and ai pathfinding collision bugs since rome2 sad times

[@visayanmissnanny2.076]

Lmao, that sponsor came out of nowhere for me

[@emperoroak7331]

Playing war thunder since 2019

[@jack8805]

been playing since 2016, man I remember when f4 phantoms and mig21s were still new and shiny

[@fearan9406]

Has there ever been a bigger waste of potential, they had thier own genre, and they burned it all down to chase some extraction trend

[@JustMe-wm9zg]

Sega destroyed them

[@AndysTake]

This is my thing - Total War is not just a game, and it's not just a series - it's an entire fricking genre. And they're burning it down because they forgot who their core audience was

[@JustMe-wm9zg]

@@AndysTake say it as it is andy fantasy franchise destroyed total war! Total war gained it's fame because of history not because of lizards and other bugs shooting lasers

[@sheepfly]

​@@JustMe-wm9zgI don't know, from everywhere I've seen it was CA's idea.

[@wilbertrifurareany1845]

I think CA now is too woke I guess they’re scared to make new historical total war like Empire 2 and Medieval 3 because woke are against Imperialism and Colonialism, they should learn from their predecessor developer to put any political view aside and make a good game for their community to enjoy which us historical enthusiast,….but this just my takes 🤷‍♂️,anyway sorry in advance if there is grammatically error English not my first language. Edit: to clarify because a lot seem misunderstood my takes because language barrier, first I’m not against anyone here you can believe in whatever ideology you want,me personally don’t want to include any politics into something general,”but my intention here is that lots of companies or sports or whatever include a lot of politics stand into everything. That is my takes, because it’s been 10 long years we’ve been asked to make a good solid historical total war game, but again this just my takes in this and again my intentions not to put down any ideology or political stand point but to put aside any of them and not include them into game or sports but anyway at the end everyone have their own opinion. My apologies ✌️

[@josebisk]

I have to imagine that there are employees/developers at CA who are watching this kind of stuff and agree wholeheartedly

[@AndysTake]

I hope so, man

[@milannikolic3371]

@@AndysTake it doesnt mean shit if developers agree or disagree. Its all about company's leader's

[@josebisk]

@easttowest7839 I think you could make that argument about shareholders and disinterested ceos perhaps

[@nikob5215]

it's never the creators. Always the suits

[@Br1cht]

When ppl still buy this slop they cannot complain when CA vomit up more. The only way is to not buy anything more until they come out with quality but the FOMO Consoomers must Consoom.

[@caseykitchen6850]

I have put THOUSANDS of hours into older total war games and I didn't even know this new total war game released. Very sad. I've avoided pain and disappointment for about a decade now but rehashing these flaws makes me want to crawl into a tiny trench and die. LONG LIVE SHOGUN 2, ROME, AND MEDIEVAL 2

[@tibchy144]

will you get this one?

[@wavydavy9816]

and Empire 🤗 (I'm loving DarthMod!)

[@JokerDR71]

And Atilla

[@nickhaser221]

Well said

[@stefanmisic7405]

@@wavydavy9816 how buggy is the darth mode? I loved vanilla, played it dozen of times but not sure how playable is the darthmod

[@johndarcangelo6893]

Rome 2 would be almost perfect imo if it had 6 month turns instead of 1 year, and if units simply had the ability to slowly move, or "ease", backwards while still facing the enemy and remaining defensive. I've wanted that ease function since Rome 1. Its literally the tactic Hannibal used to encircle and defeat Rome at Cannae. Instead your guys turn their back on the enemy and get slaughtered, drives me crazy that this simple little detail practically dictates my battle strategy. I got that off my chest im gonna watch the video now lol.

[@uglierclock5447]

I feel the same way and what surprises me is that Manor Lords is doing this and that is a solo dev indie game

[@Killerbee_McTitties]

I disagree, a turn should be one season of the year, the scope of Rome 2 is just too large, they should've made 2 campaigns. The family tree and politics system is an unintuitive mess and badly explained. Unit cards are ugly as fuck.

[@johndarcangelo6893]

@@Killerbee_McTitties I guess I'm one of the weird people who like the political system. I could see it being 4 turns per year also, like Shogun 2. As long as it doesn't take me 3 game years to sail an army from Naples to Sardinia lol

[@prettyawesomeperson2188]

Rome 2 would be amazing if they hadn't fucked up, how I don't know but I guess it's an engine limitation since they still hasn't fixed it, the charge on horses barely grazing the infantry men. Sure it do damage, but they are just... standing there.. maybe taking a step back after getting charged by heavy cavalry.

[@Northex23]

At least you can mod in 4t/y but I don't think we can fix easi g or cavalry charge animations

[@darkmattergamesofficial]

Main reason I didn’t buy Pharaoh is that I am completely uninterested in Egyptian warfare, but if it was a larger scale Bronze Age game with Greece and Meso I could have been much more interested. Either way, the underlying battles and combat have been unsatisfying for a long time. Shogun 2 was the last game with truly kinetic combat.

[@AndysTake]

Indeed, scope in itself is alluring. In my opinion, focused maps should first and foremost be relegated to expansions, while the main game should deliver a big, genre-defining campaign.

[@Diogolindir]

yea, to me Egyptian culture is very interesting but its warfare is not that interesting for me to play.

[@TheHossmatrix]

Bro, almost 0 tactical fight at this time period. So uninteresting era.

[@brianhouston5368]

Yeah, everything about Pharaoh indicates that CA wanted to make this title on the cheap. It was only announced 5 months ago, and is already released? They clearly weren't putting in the resources or timeline that a major epic historical Total War title requires. I'll hold out hope that we might see a Medieval 3 or Empire 2 before the end of 2025 (hell, I'd even take a Shogun 3 if it was really good), if CA starts listening and gets their act together. They don't need to reinvent the wheel, they just need to produce a refined product with the scope and scale that TW players have come to expect. They can't cheat their way into a hit. They have to earn it.

[@etienne8110]

Clearly,.they planned to sale the games multiple time. At 60bucks for each regions to finally make a full bronze age game at 300 bucks😅 The greed was too much on this one

[@compatriot852]

The core audience of Total war has always been the historical fanbase. Pharoah just goes to show that CA can't keep pumping out these saga like games based on a broken foundation/engine The fans want the grand scale and complexity that older games had. An empire 2 game with the map of Paradox's europa universalis IV would be a major improvement

[@AndysTake]

Yes... is it so hard to make an Empire 2 be great? Honestly I dont even think people need that much better visuals at this point, just make a fantastic game and make it look decent

[@thesupreme8062]

Id wager a large ammount of warhammer players went and played older tw game.

[@thesupreme8062]

​@@AndysTakewarhammer 2 was a fantastic game you not caring for it doesnt change that, wh3 was a shitshow.

[@etienne8110]

It is the historical audience. But the biggest audience is on tjeir casual fantasy titles. They earn more on a warhammer dlc than on an historical title, even one like empire or Attila.

[@adamg7984]

@@thesupreme8062 Warhammer 2 isn't fun to me as a Total War fan, I'm just saying. Even if it is a great game to most, it's not what people who've enjoyed old TW look for. But that's fine, it's okay if they want to make other experiences but historical fans are fucking waiting and waiting for actual historical games with actual historical mechanics that aren't fantastical and nonsensical and don't look like cartoon battles like in Pharaoh. It's true that the last fully historical full scale game was god damn Attila. And modern combat mechanics in the games are bad, they're just bad. They feel entirely unrealistic in games where it's not supposed to feel that way because their engine now seems to only be capable of Warhammer style combat.

[@The_Kingmaker]

My worry is that corporate will look at Pharaoh’s abysmal numbers and decide that the market for historical TW games has dried up… which is the exact opposite of the lesson they need to learn from this.

[@sleepplease9021]

My exact fear

[@temporarychannel4339]

Historical RTS people are so cringe. Yes historical RTS is now a niche genre, or at least for TW it has become so. Get over it. Fantasy RTS has schooled those historical RTSs and the numbers are telling and that's all that matters, gross slaes (disclaimer: i'm someone who loves historical rts and has put a large amount of hours into Napolean/Rome 2 ). To CA: more Warhammer, give us sci fi Warhammer 40k and Star Wars, please.

[@AgedBacon]

It started right after Shogun 2. They started simplifying the games more and more, adding tons of DLCs.

[@HeadsFullOfEyeballs]

I love the Bronze Age Near East setting. It's something I've wanted from Total War since the original Rome. But modern Total War games with their campaigns designed around individual hero characters just do nothing for me. I couldn't care less which monosyllabic warlord ends up ruling ancient China, or which noble sits on the Hittite throne. I want to steer a civilization, not some guy's political career. So now whenever they announce a new Total War game, I'm initially excited by the setting and then the first campaign preview kills my interest dead.

[@dodge33cymru]

Thank goodness, thought it was just me! Every time I've seen a game since Three Kingdoms, that individual RPG element turns me off, especially when you can put so much choice into making the characters how you want. Not adapting to circumstances and misfortune and random occurrence, but just choose what crazy bonuses you want as somehow one character's presence makes every troop twice as strong.

[@justagame101]

@@dodge33cymru Yes, This!👆

[@jvoodoochild2755]

@@dodge33cymru if you don’t mind, I would like to understand your POV more. The trait system in Medieval2 is in Troy, and I would presume in Pharaoh. I haven’t seen the tables in 10 years, so they might be tuned down, but they exist. The general’s skill tree has 26 choices which eliminate 26 other options. To me that is VERY customizable for my circumstances Again a Troy thing that I don’t know transitioned to Pharaoh, the random motivations really steers me to use that general, and therefore the stack, very differently.

[@NinjaSushi2]

Hahaha well put.

[@NinjaSushi2]

Total War: Career Politician

I am super worried that instead of listening to the community, the developers will just write off the whole series as “there’s no interest anymore”. The last games SUCK. I miss Medieval, hell, I even miss Rome 2 with how it FELT. These new games feel and look like Civ VI or Monopoly

[@AndysTake]

For sure!

[@swordboy5477]

So well put

[@DovahFett]

Civ IV is one of the most highly regarded games ever made, and is seen by many as the apex of its franchise, so I don't think comparing Pharoh to it is quite the insult you think it is. Civ VI or Beyond Earth would be a more apt comparison.

[@thedonkey6704]

@@DovahFett yeah but I don’t think you understand his point. He’s saying that these games don’t feel like total war anymore. It’s that they feel like something different. That’s bad because old total war games felt extremely real. With well made maps

[@Riskbisky]

@@DovahFett civ IV is a master piece of game and for me none of the subsequent titles ever felt as good

[@DrFroyd123]

Twenty years later, I still play the original Rome Total War. Tried almost all TW that came after, none had the same experience

[@Okoii]

Great vid Andy, it's truly sad to see CA run Total War into the ground with Sega presumably holding the reins, and i say this as someone who enjoys 3 kingdoms and warhammer Total war. A depressing decline, hopefully it can only go up from here because if nothing else is clear to CA they must realize something has to change.

[@Person0fColor]

You enjoyed Warhammer and 3 kingdoms? 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 So we have people like you to thank for destroying the franchise 🤣. I played both Troy and Warhammer 2 for like 10 mins and never went back total waste of money. Garbage. This is mobile gaming status 🤣🤣🤣

[@chiefmasterofdeepwarrens3208]

@@Person0fColor "OOOOOOOOOO Look at me!!! I'm a disgruntled little historical fan who acts like a contrarian for the sake of being a downer fuckwit because fuck actually good games, if it has magicky stuff and good gameplay I am big mad!"

[@julianhermanez1694]

​@@chiefmasterofdeepwarrens3208tbf you all laughed at him when Warhammer was announced and yet now you are here crying with him 😂

[@Nman-hm7tw]

Bro warhammer is the best thing that happened to this franchise adds variety to this crap. Cry harder this franchise is past you.

[@Person0fColor]

@@chiefmasterofdeepwarrens3208 My bad for being passionate about a game series Ive been playing for over 20 years. I used to play alot of other games but mostly for the last 10 years only Total war mostly Medieval and Rome 2 littel bit of Thrones and Atilla. Divide et Impera is fukking sick. But yea again my bad for being passionate about a game franchise Ive been playing since I was 12. I remember the day I picked it up from "FunCo land" in the discount bin the cover art was so sick. Warhammer is not only a crap Totalwar game is a crap warhammer game. Armageddon Sanctus Reach and Battle sector and even Chaos Gate although they are not in the Fantasy universe are better warhammer games IMO but they are all turned based. But yea dood thanks for siding with the corporations and the board members on where to take the franchise I mean its not like I didnt give it a chance and spend $180 on Warhammer 1 and 2 only to play it for an hour and then uninstall it and never play it again 🤣 I got Rome 2 for like $12 and put thousands of hours into it 🤣 the replay value is insane. See the issue is once you bring into the mix all these people who didnt play Total war then they have all these ideas of what a TW game is and its just not. I once heard an 1d10t in a forum of course it was Warhammer TW 🤣 he suggested we remove the turn base element from the game. Take out the turn base element from a total war game. I play Total war campaigns that can last 30+ hours in one fukkking sitting. Its intense at times but with the turn based campaign map there is a draw that slows down the pace and little so you can make your strategic decisions. Imagine playing a TW game only RTS mechanic for 30+ hours in one sitting? 🤣 If I wanted to do that Id play Age of empires not total war. This is someone who doesnt understand what TW is but has been brought into the fold because CA wants Warhammer money. You are not a real TW fan that is easy to tell. Whats your deal? "shut up and take whatever CA gives you" 🤣 youre totally not a fukkking hack 🤣

[@Apophis150]

I hate how much I agree with this; this is a perfect post-autopsy of the series.

[@thelasteinherjar6115]

I've been playing total war games since the very first shogun came out. I'm 32, and total war has been the game series that until recently, I couldn't ever walk away from and has been a massive part of my life. It is such a damn shame to see the way it's headed. It's heartbreaking to see such an amazing game series being shitted away for corporate greed. I hope total war never dies, but right now, it's definitely on it's way.

[@adamg7984]

It feels like the rush to push out these fucking games every year or two is what's utterly destroyed the series, at least for people who grew up with it. I'm 33 so I'm right with you. I bought Shogun 1 on disc and played it on my family's Gateway PC. Yeah, does anyone even remember Gateway PC's? But it ran the game well. I loved it and while I never did play Medieval 1 I spent a ton of hours in Rome 1 as a teen and then in Medieval 2. I still liked the series and loved it's games up until Warhammer and Three Kingdoms and all that. Those just aren't interesting to me, and I don't hold that against people who love those games I'm happy for CA to make other experiences. But they have really lost their way, the WH series has ended and now what? They're not going to have that to fall back on and if their historical games perform this poorly then they're screwed. They needed a game that fans have wanted, not Pharaoh which seems like a mix of historical and fantastical nonsense yet again. They clearly are trying to keep the features of Warhammer while making historical games and it just doesn't fucking work. It's not what either group of fans are looking for.

[@johndoe-kq1ct]

Same 😢

[@davidsaville5239]

I've also been a Total War gamer since Shogun 1 !! Also played Medieval 1 (Viking Invasion expansion) Rome 1, Rome Barbarian Invasion. Medieval 2 and the expansion pack and Empire Total War. Now 35 years old 😅

[@kory1202]

Same I'm 33 grew up playing total war but every new title has been rather disappointing. It's crazy how good shogun 2 was yet it all went down hill 😢

[@nelsynelson27]

Same here, 35yo played every historical game except Troy which I returned after 30mins and Pharoah. I actually think 3K was the pinnacle so far, with the complexity of diplomacy etc making it so much better, but imagine that in a medieval3 setting.

[@conor845]

The ridiculously limited map is the issue for me. Even in the old historical TWs I wanted more map.

[@RicegumNeverBrokeAgain]

They could have improved med 2 , and bring some more complexity from CK3 and better trigger-events

[@Bubajumba]

100% agree, empire is one of my favorites simply because of its massive map or maps. The game is really buggy and poor but its something with the grandeur of it that makes it special. Its just fun to explore completely different cultures etc it allowes you to play many campaigns. Pharaoh is like you got a choice between a couple of cousin's once you have played one you feel like you have done it all

[@daldan66]

There is a mod for that on workshop, i think bigger battle map or something

[@EinFelsbrocken]

5k player peak is just absolutely devastating.. I cant imagine how it must feel to show up to work at CA in these times.

[@sobik2433]

fire them and hire new fresh designer or back to old guys from medieval 2 Rome 2 etc

[@danielblack8497]

@@sobik2433 its not the designers. its corporate telling the designers to take no risk and pump out the same shit as fast as possible

[@granola661]

@@danielblack8497exactly, and idiots keep buying it

[@EdinProfa]

CA hears this and everyone else, and decides to make Thrones of Britannia 2.

[@AndysTake]

The Good Ending

[@georgerafa5041]

Then they seethe and stutter about how much money there is in mobile gaming lmao

[@Kublaioi]

hear me out but if it was medieval 2 quality (of course) I would buy it (I actually enjoyed tob's campaign, but I could only complete 1 of them before getting bored, still was really fun)

[@johndarcangelo6893]

I also liked ToB though it isn't their best. All the times that an army just runs right around your army and takes a minor settlement with no defenses and now you can't feed your army, smh. No option to garrison units either. But I thought the battles played out really well, reminded me of Shogun 2 but with that all important, "unit diversity" that we all love lol.

[@zac8543]

Yea I still play the hell out Of Atilla: Total War. The modding scene and almost thr overhaul mods are freaking amazing

[@darkmattergamesofficial]

You hit the nail on the head. Warhammer and Three Kingdoms kind of isolated us hardline historical fans. It got to fantasy. They had the opportunity to use that money to create the next legendary historical title and being everyone back in.

[@AndysTake]

I'm baffled at the lack of true long term planning here. After Attila I could see them being in relative hot water after Rome 2's PR disaster and Attila's not-so-amazing commercial performance. And then they actually get massive successes on their hands, but somehow fail to reinvest in their core audience that would - and still might - stay and come back after Warhammer was over.

[@Gustav_Kuriga]

Three Kingdoms literally has a historical mode. If you don't like the game based on the historical novel, play the mode based on the historical record. That's literally why it's there.

[@Tinywars]

Then the issue is with you not CA or the fan base. They haven't made a good historical game since Medieval 2 and it's amazing expansions. They needed Warhammer and I'm glad they went down that path because they went stale and they are still stale.

[@darkmattergamesofficial]

@@Gustav_Kuriga Does that do away with hero units? The heroes really ruined the game for me. Totally bungus seeing a single dude charging into a mass formation and winning.

[@TengYt1]

@@darkmattergamesofficial Yeah Records mode has no Hero Units, instead generals have mounted bodyguards like in older historical games.

[@Lechit0202]

That was so well spoken, and that last point is incredibly important. We're all here for CA and Total War's success. I want nothing more than for them to make another great game that gives me a reason to hand over my money. And it's so heartbreaking to see them fail to do so time after time

[@metsko2318]

It’s insane how greed changes a company

[@Cheesemonkey2889]

a company has to be greedy to survive, that's just capitalism

[@karstenkunneman5219]

I would kill for a Napoleon sequel. And with the return to popular culture that Napoleon has had in the past couple of months, I know that CA could've made a boatload of money. Alas, maybe next decade.

[@AndysTake]

I'd do *very much* for a Napoleon remaster that opened the game up to full modding with new maps etc. But an Empire 2/Napoleon 2 done right would be fantastic

[@fonkyman]

thats such a good point.. they could have made out like criminals.. but they have no brains only greedy paws

[@rpersen]

Napoleon was my favourite TW game, I like the more focused campaigns. I can recommend the Ultimate General series, they scratch that gunpowder era itch.

[@kohtalainenalias]

Kill? I think that's quite harsh for a video game 😮

[@viktorvankov6666]

Ye, people are killing each for nothing, so basically for a game is a dealmof some sort

[@bittersteel3284]

CA is gunna watch this and be like “Ahhh I get it…. So you want Total War Madagascar, quick make the next game!”

[@AndysTake]

I'm laughing, you're speaking the truth and I'm laughing

[@Killer-vi4ih]

Lol Total War Antarctica

[@aaaaaaaaaaaaaafafaff]

Currently playing empire, I'll keep rotating beetween empire, attila, and rome until they release real tw

[@Dodsodalo]

Arch tried to warn them but nooooooo had to call him names and throw tantrums rather than learn. Now as we stand above the charred remains of the foundations of a once grand house, we utter, "You were told, and ignored us. Now we shall ignore you and tales of it shall be told."

[@newname7055]

Bronze Age Egypt was the worst choice they could've made for the big "return to historical roots" claim imo. I loved the old TW games but even if Egypt was made back in the good times it would've never had an appeal to a majority back then I feel.

[@AndysTake]

Absolutely, it was honestly perhaps the worst setting they could've made. I'd wager about 5% of the community would've picked the bronze age as their most sought after setting, and that is not a lot of people

[@TheMentorOfMomos]

IMAGINE if the time was set on the bronze age collapse. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN SO GOOD. So many options, so many opportunities AND EVEN KEEP THE FANTASY TW MARKET IN WITH SOME LEGENDARY FEATURES. So many different kingdoms like the Mycenaeans, the Hittites, the Egyptians, the Assyrians, the Babilonians AND THE SEA PEOPLES.

[@newname7055]

@@AndysTake Honestly it feels like it would've suited a lot better as a DLC for Rome as an example - just look how Shogun 2 did their DLCs, one went back to the 1180s, the other went to the 1860s, proving it was possible to do.

[@lazerfruit2121]

​@@AndysTakeif they included Greece, western Anatolia, and assyria/rest of the Middle East, the game probably would have done fine. It's just way too small in scope for the price right now

[@tugpetit2204]

​@@TheMentorOfMomos The Pharaoe campaing is the bronze age collapse, with endless wave of barbarian.

[@MrBell-iq3sm]

I want a gunpowder era TW. On the other hand, I want CA to improve and ideally use a different engine before they attempt such a game, because otherwise it would be ruined.

[@AndysTake]

Indeed

[@miketogwell1000]

would like a global 19th century TW, from end of napleonic period through to ~1900 they showed its got possibilities with fall of the samurai - American Civil war, Franco prussian, crimea etc

[@kohtalainenalias]

WH40k TW could be awesome.

[@JBE111]

@@kohtalainenalias 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

[@cookiecola5852]

I heard CA’s engine inspired Stuxnet

[@Vanderyn]

Medieval 2 was my first Total war. Then I played Rome and loved it also. M2TW: Kingdoms was basically a perfect game. No other total war title since has really captivated me, I always end up back in Med2.

[@paeng1935]

GOD! Imagine a definitive edition of Empire and Medieval 2, with all the features that has been thoroughly missed, along with improvements born out of discourse between the community and the devs: Expansive, detailed, campaign maps of Europe and the near East, with buildings sattelite from the state capital. A return of Naval battles on an improved engine. And with the glorious battle start speeches and detailed voice-acting!! What I would give for something like that again. It's such a pain to have been waiting so many years for something that even remotely strikes a chord with the nostalgia, immersion and sheer joy of total war then. 😢

[@Hawker91504]

For those interested, being fed up with the situation has since a month ago started to make his own game. They are at now 13-15 in the team. Here's their youtube page : www.youtube.com/@BR_Interactive

[@YeetThyBaby]

I give it another 3 days before it goes below 1000 and stays there. Also did you see that Reddit post where the guy got a campaign map bug and the background skybox was just Troys art? What an absolute meme.

[@thedisastricartist5075]

Where??!!

[@YeetThyBaby]

​@@thedisastricartist5075it was this afternoon I'm pretty sure, should be in the recent posts. But yeah the skybox glitched and reverted back to Troy's greek art skybox haha

[@AndysTake]

No I didn't see that, but it's no surprise since this game is clearly fully based on Troy

[@thedisastricartist5075]

@@YeetThyBaby ok

[@YeetThyBaby]

@@thedisastricartist5075 I put it in Andy's discord

[@IIgaiaII]

You said what needed to be said. For this I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[@AndysTake]

Thank you so much for the support, my friend, it really means a lot!

[@kelthuzad4634]

this is why you hammer facts into a devs skull the first time they screw up and tell stans that defending their mistake to touch grass you dont wait for a decade to speak out

[@jerrycoomberry2541]

I've been playing Total War since Medieval 2 came out and I had absolutely no idea they were even making a Pharoah game. I've bought every historical game they've made and found that I don't continue playing any games past Rome 2. I like the time periods and regions, but they don't have the same staying power as the older titles do. Personally, all I've really wanted for the last 15 years is an in-depth and expanded Empire 2. Something that will really knock the ball out of the park, something that I can play for another 15 years.

[@mattc1274]

Pharaoh could have worked (and potentially depending on post release content still could if the map expands). The map should have spanned across the Middle East (full Anatolia rather than a part of it, Persia etc.) and should have been nation focused rather than character focused. I’m certain these simple easy design wins would have led to these numbers jumping up considerably.

[@Jbum26]

They could've had a nice middle ground too. Certain characters would control certain sub factions like in Rome TW. Instead of Julii, Brutii, and Scipii they could have done a Ramses, Seti, and Amenmesse factions that continue after the titular character's death (campaign over generations, not a single lifetime). Such a small map area of focus in light of the wide array of diverse Bronze Age cultures and tactics was a major miss imo. This game could have been great if it was done correctly!

[@adamg7984]

I would sincerely be interested in it if it had a huge map that went into Persia and Greece and Libya and all those expansive areas. Especially if it reached into India. I'd have wanted that a lot more than this. I really don't have any interest in this game, and I don't know precisely why but the game just seems like a bad mix of Warhammer and historical games.

[@123pa1n]

it cannot work with this engine, no matter what kind of historical game they make the engine will kill it. People dont need to demand remasters or certain hostorical settings. They need to demand a new engine before anything else.

[@FF-bj4nq]

@@adamg7984 It's not a mix of warhammer and historical games, it's a mix of troy and historical games

[@GusingtonOne]

Great video...and brave. The section towards the end on 'what could have been' if CA did similar work to TW as was done with definitive editions of Age of Empires made me teary-eyed at the lost opportunity :/

[@AndysTake]

Thank you, my friend. Yeah really though, I don't know why they haven't done what AoE is doing, it's baffling

[@YeetThyBaby]

@@AndysTake laziness? Pretty sure I heard somewhere that Sega have had to station people at CA offices to make sure they're actually doing what they're supposed to be doing, ie actual work.

[@GusingtonOne]

@@AndysTake Maybe one day CA will realize the potential of a definitive edition for their older games...maybe :/

[@agi474]

Empire has so much wasted potential that I would be happy if they took Shogun FOS and dressed it up as Empire! Portugal in South America, Mughal Empire, playable minor factions, new units...

[@smokinfree5555]

@@AndysTake I know Andy, it beggars belief to be honest. I have all the AOE's not including IV (don't agree with Relic choosing to redo the medieval era) Plus AOM, Plus Rise Of Nations lol. Anyway, maybe expanding Pharaoh with some DLC's to bring in other nations like The Greeks might help I guess. Not sure what else they can do at this point.

[@fmzaidi2001]

Agreed with your points except for Three Kingdoms. It is a hybrid title with flashier romance mode for fantasy fans and records mode for historical fans. There’s also plenty of historical facts and notes on key locations that are added bonus. There’s also more innovation from visuals to an overhaul in mechanics that you should explore and recommend for future historical titles

[@Master-Mirror]

Three Kingdoms is a title I might actually purchase at some point. But it helps that I find that period of Chinese history quite interesting.

[@peterk2735]

I love the Warhammer TW titles and the more character focused streamlined approach to factions and town management works there. But for the historical titles I really miss the depth of the old games, like remember how in the first Medieval TW you could give titles to your leaders and stuff. Or on that note, your awesome faction leader could die and gets inherited by the guy with shitty stats. Not to mention the choice you had in developing your settlements…

[@keizoxd5623]

And the Speeches!! Oh Boi! Just watched older TW Speech scenes like in Medieval 2.

[@peterk2735]

@@keizoxd5623 Loved the speeches they were so dynamic. Depending on your general’s traits, your army comp and the enemy faction you could get so many different combos

[@MrCopernicum]

The last historical total war feels ages ago. I grew up with the series. I'm 24 now and played empire, when it came out, so by now thos games have been with me for a large part of my life and I can still remember 12 year old me almost exploding from anticipation when first launching Shogun 2 (which I still play from time to time). But nothing since Atilla has ever really captured me like that. I enjoyed the Warhammer series, because I tried to immerse myself in the setting, but since I am not a big fantasy and especially not a warhammer fan, I never trully felt like this was the setting for me. By now I'm actually tired of waiting and the franchise has lost so much of my trust and interest, that I propably won't come back unless they make something truly amazing. I think CA and SEGA underestimated, how many of their playerbase were just "killing time" with games like troy, thrones of brittania or even the warhammer trilogy, while waiting for the next TRUE total war game. I certainly did.

[@SwissFech]

same for me im 23, started with napoleon total war and the last great one for me was atilla after that it was so watered down

[@Person0fColor]

Troy, Warhammer is not total war those are mobile games and if you bought them you got ripped off.

[@senosoloma00]

Same here, I am 23 and started with Rome when I was a kid. I didn't pay attention to Shogun 2 until 2016 and holy crap how much of great hours I've spent in this game. I didn't play anything after Thrones (which is not that bad imo, I love the setting but it should've been bigger game with naval, agents, proper management etc) because at that point it's not Total War anymore.

[@Hawker91504]

For those interested, being fed up with the situation and since a month ago, a guy has started to make his own game. They are at now 13-15 in the team. Here's their youtube page : www.youtube.com/@BR_Interactive

[@VladVlad-ul1io]

i am 25 and i can feel you brother

[@GhenTuongHB]

Honestly, if they fix all the bugs which the community has already fixed in Attila, fix the performance which the community can't, and release it as Attila remaster, I and the boys in my association will still buy it.

[@AndysTake]

I'm part of the Boys Association and I 100% concur

[@DovahFett]

Attila's performance issues are appalling, and CA's initial claim that it ran bad because it was designed with future hardware in mind continues to be proven false as time goes on and it continues to run like crap on modern systems.

[@AndysTake]

@@DovahFett yes this is one of more egregious lies I can think of other than the whole Rome 2 stuff

[@stevie_tv3198]

Today i wrote a comment on one of their linkedin posts, begging them to listen to their community and that this community wants them to succeed. All very respectful. They just deleted that comment. How ignorant can a company be. At this point i really want them to fail despite being a loyal fan for nearly 20years

[@cheungchingtong]

As a historical fan, I bought a box of dual discs with an actual campaign map in it in early 2005, that was the Rome: Total War, and I loved it, since then I had never missed one title of the TW series, not even the Sagas, and Warhammers, I bought all three base games and every single one of those DLCs. But this time, the Pharaoh, I said to myself I would pass. Won't waste a dime on it even for an 90% discount. CA, what a waste?!

[@aggroberlin7876]

The Medieval II music is such a tease. My mom bought me the original Shogun when I was 9 years old and played all the way up through Attila like you. As soon as I saw Warhammer coming out I knew they were giving up on us history lovers.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

One word: Financialization Once it took hold in the games industry, it was only a matter of time.

[@chromesucks5299]

The word you are looking for is 'Capitalism' , Once it was safe/lucrative enough for private investors then it was all downhill.

[@johnschappert8784]

@@chromesucks5299 Capitalism is a meaningless word: please define it for us. Other than Tetris, please name a single popular video game that has come from a society without private ownership (whether de facto or de jure).

[@Tomo_mo]

​@@johnschappert8784blud stop wasting your time with these kids throwing buzzword because they wanna seek affirmation. I doubt they even know what theyre blabbing about.

[@Tomo_mo]

Bro CA is a gaming company, not a charity org. Of course theyre gonna be seeking profits from selling games.

[@Lobsterwithinternet]

@@Tomo_mo That’s not the point. Please go look up what it is before blaming it all on basic greed as though it's always been like this when that's not true.

[@96Waffler]

I remember when I first found out about total war through a friend in high school, as a massive history nerd it sounded amazing to me I went home bought rome total war and immediately fell in love. Fast forward to 2023 and watching what total has become along with so many other amazing gaming franchises I can't help but feel depressed I really want to hope that CA actually listens to the community this time but the cynic in my has seen what gaming as a whole has become and I just can't see them changing but god I hope I'm wrong

[@randyroo2]

Its not just historical releases that I miss, its the fact that historical releases were released as complete games with their addition dlc's giving you a different game with different factions, a slightly altered time period and different units with some new mechanics. With the fantasy titles like warhammer its been 10 years and the game still isn't complete, there may even be new factions coming. Imagine playing rome TW with barbarian civs releasing 2 years later, greek civs taking another 2 years after that, then weaiting 2 more years for carthaginians... ridiculous.

[@Josep_Hernandez_Lujan]

People care more about the Roman Empire than other ancient settings

[@AndysTake]

Perhaps, I wouldn't mind a Rome 3, it's BEEN 10 years after all

[@etienne8110]

Do they care more about japanese medieval wars? No. If the game was good and had all tje bronze age empires from start, people would be interested.

[@Edward135i]

I'd say more people know about the Roman Empire than say the Bronze age.

[@BloodyKnives66]

Roman Empire had a long run, not to mention the Byzantine empire carrying the torch afterwards

[@GnohmPolaeon.B.OniShartz]

Rome is cool and all, but its the culmination of everything that came before it. It did very little truly unique other than roads and being highly adaptive. The further you go back, the more often the empire hinges on unique qualities based on individual development and the further you go back the less same-same competing empires function. If they were going to win me over to the historical side it would have probably been bronze age and they've pretty squarely disappointed me on all fronts. I'll just go back to Warhammer if all I want is the Egypt theme without much of the bronze age limitations.

[@MrSimonsime]

Man i play since medieval 2 and i felt every word you said and i think the core audience does as well. I really wish CA would implement high quality feedback into their decision making. They seem so out of touch with their community and its not tolerable anymore. At this point i fear for the future of total war because of their bad decisions.

[@Pelagion98]

Honestly, if Medieval III was just II but with better graphics, bigger map and more factions, I would be happy. Most of the "improvements" done over the years were to the game's detriment.

[@smoadia85]

it seems their diet is purely on the copium supplied by diehard fans who feed CA what they only want to hear.

[@toddblankenship7164]

well at least you have the originals to play still right? not sure why you don't just play the ones you think were /are so good. player count on the originals is in the toilet no one plays them or at least very few.

[@MrSimonsime]

more than pharao :) (edit: and medieval 2 is 17 years old, still beating pharao by a landslide. So your argument is play the same game for 17 years and dont expect the series to improve?)@@toddblankenship7164

[@dixenherize6969]

​@@toddblankenship7164kick rocks Nancy. We get it, you like the way things are going and don't know what the real fans, that have been around no doubt longer than someone who clearly isn't annoyed and irritated with the degradation of the things that made total war and what had gained them their fans that have been loyal and extremely patient even after YEARS of being completely ignored and having to sit back and watch the company instead go the complete opposite direction with things all for a cash grab and to gain new fans, which obviously isn't necessarily a bad thing by any means, but when it's costing you your actual true, die hard fans that have loyally stuck by your side even tho each new announcement there has been made since God only knows how many for a majority of us. All while being ignored, pushed to the rear of the crowd of all the new fans that let's be real here, would not do the same of CA started doing what made them who they are today and went back to their roots and listened to their real fans finally and went back to historical settings, but actually took what their fans have been asking for for so long and gave us a proper medieval 3 or empire 2 COMPLETE game with the graphics, units, maps, and individualism of units and not this health bar for the unit crap, and pure lack of any real depth or just anything we've been asking for for years. The war hammer fans and the fantasy fans are fair weather fans and wouldn't stick around the way the majority of us have and CA is just trying to get get much money as they can out of people like that is disgusting. Pumping out a game that is so bland and has basic things in it when compared to older titles, it's just greedy, lazy and terrible business ethics especially when putting a game out for the price they are charging, after less than a year of even announcing it from the get go, and it's damn near dlc quality. No unit detail, I mean c'mon bud, stop playing stupid and acting like it's totally cool and everything is good the way it is and has been lately. If you think that, then you're a newer fan who doesn't have any say and should just stfu

[@floriandebontdelbarre2700]

Completely agree we should've had a bronze age total war game. In defense of Critical Assembly, however, the Bronze Age is a huge period of time, we're talking about a period of 2 millennia, which would be roughly double the timespan Medieval: total war covered (1 millenium).. There were many different civilizations and dynasties over that time in Egypt and Mesopotamia alone. This makes it incredibly difficult to create a representative game, as you would essentially have to take a snapshot of time, which (depending on who plays it) will never truly feel like "THE bronze age" to everyone. Total war games are always (to some degree) better suited to cover short periods in history. I'm not saying CA are doing a great job. They absolutely should do better. However, we shouldn't think black and white and toss out nuances.

[@Hawker91504]

For those interested, being fed up with the situation has since a month ago started to make his own game. They are at now 13-15 in the team. Here's their youtube page : www.youtube.com/@BR_Interactive

[@danielwest6095]

Well they can focus on the bronze age collapse, which was only about a century, and give it the same apocalyptic vibe as Attila

[@floriandebontdelbarre2700]

Like I said, focusing on the collapse could work and I'm sure a great number of people will enjoy that. At the same time, others won't see the bronze age collapse as "the bronze age" because it is essentially the final chapter of that period and will prefer the period of the early or middle Egyption kingdom and the Babylonians. @@danielwest6095 That's the issue with large time periods like that, you'll never please everybody, even though that's exactly what you want to do

[@Leeright37]

Agree 100%, I've been a fan since Medieval Total War. Found myself re installing Medieval Total War 2 several times over my life span. The last historical release I enjoyed was the Three Kingdoms. I did play Warhammer games and enjoyed them. However, I didn't love them as much as the historical releases. Probably finally get around to trying out the mods for Attila.

[@PekzLed]

Medieval 1212 mod for attila is medieval 3 mate, check that out

[@MiguelBaptista1981]

Attila is amazing

[@BigYehudah]

upvoted for saying "In the Year of Our Lord."

[@chico9805]

He caught me off-guard with that, seems almost everyone is just a godless nihilist today 😅

[@blakebailey22]

I want old school, hardcore Total War where if your siege ram breaks, and you don't have ladders deployed, you automatically lose the siege attempt

[@Killer-vi4ih]

Man I completely forgot about that small detail. That realism made the game much more strategic/deep....

[@geherrit1989]

On the Topic of "100 millions for hyenas" - in the statement it was written that a number of projects have been canceled and that a total will result in a write off at the amount of 100 million. Will i have no doubt that hyenas was the biggest of those titles, i was not only that game. Considering that the biggest part of costs is personnel costs and ca having about 850 employees, even if everybody would exclusively work on the game and if they cost an average of 60k they would all have to work on the project for 2 years to amount to the costs of 100 mio.

[@paulabramowicz3360]

You said it in reference to what CA continues doing with that ancient engine : "Sucking on the teet..." of it...

[@nrjelley]

I was a massive Total War fan, first getting into the series with Medieval 1 back in the day. Honestly, the poor release of Rome 2 burnt me so bad it killed a lot of the love I had for the series. The rest of the releases since still haven’t restored that love sadly.

[@maxkurtson9892]

Same. Never been more dissapointed with a game than I was then. I heard its ok now but that rome II release made me give up total war games. Still waiting for Medieval 3 or Empire 2 or something like it.

[@ivanthedankable]

see I wasn't playing PC games yet when Rome 2 came out, but I do remember seeing KZbin videos of Rome 2 and instantly wanting to get a PC to play the TW games specifically. But now Rome 2 is my favorite game by far in the series, but CA ruined multiplayer by removing the in-game chat (b/c I play MP the most)

[@Etaoinshrdlu69]

Roman warfare is about lines of infantry brawling not individual man-to-man fighting or gunpower which the Warscape engine was designed for.

[@thee8904]

Attila is really good, probably the only new age total war game that I enjoy. Im in the middle of a 1212AD campaign as the Crusader States and its a lot of fun. I say “new” but the game is almost a decade old. Definitely sign of the times. Unfortunately CA lost their touch a long time ago

[@user-kv1lp8ih8g]

Same!! Rome 2 ended any love I had for the franchise.. I only play MTW2 now.

[@jack8805]

Yeah we need to cleanse the arcady/fantasy influences from warhammer

[@BulletPr00fGAm3r]

On my end i still play medieval TW 2 with Stainless steel mod and Empire with Darthmod. Although i own all TW games to support CA i keep going to the two above over and over. 3 kingdoms was ok but I love the medieval and 1700s are in and the mods have kept it going for me! Have thousands of hours in these. No matter what i am still grateful to CA for keeping the genre alive.

[@Krustovsk]

Announcement of Medieval 3 = pre-order

[@atomicLord97]

personally I like the economy system that troy and pharaoh have used. it makes a lot more since than just endlessly spamming out the buildings that generate more and more money and food. it gives a minor settlements more purpose than just being another spot to pump out money and food from if you can only make certain types of economy buildings. I like the whole, this settlement can produce food, this one is focused around bronze, this one can get you stone, this one has a gold deposit, that economy system is what drew me into playing both titles to begin with even if they are poor quality compared to older games. personally, I feel like a mix of this new economy system, a return to Rome/Medieval 2's settlement building system, rome 2/attila's ability to convert settlements culture to yours (The way you can change the look of the settlement to match your culture, like how if a greek faction annexes a celtic faction settlement and makes it look greek like in rome 2), the province system that the games have now, medieval 2's system when it came to religion and religious wars, and the older style of unit formations you could toggle on or off. if all that were combined and mixed properly in a new setting, like maybe the thirty years war, or the seven years war, it would probably make a real S tier total war. I mean given the scale of the seven years war and the vast colonies powers already had then it would give CA the first opportunity to map the whole world and make the first globe spanning total war historical title.

[@houndofculann1793]

I think the province system needs a serious overhaul though. I like the edicts, but the system for them is too shallow. And even if I like the idea of provinces dividing your empire into governmental areas, being forced to comply with a strict division of what counts as its own province needs to go. Yes, the divisions are somewhat historical but from a gameplay perspective it's asinine to be forced to declare wars or suffer from war declarations only because you or the AI wants to just complete a province they hold a part of, especially since often there's some faction(s) near you that you wouldn't mind having good relations with. And even though you already mentioned the building system of Medieval 2, the province capital/minor city division is a part of the province system and also needs to go. What I think would be a good iteration of the system would be: 1) There should be at least double the amount of edicts so like 8-10, perhaps with fewer different effects per edict, and the ability to have several of them appiled at once in the same province. There should also be a cost to apply one and the cost per edict should increase for each new you apply so that it would be usually feasible to have 2-3 of them on per province and more only if you start rolling around in money. 2) The factions themselves should be able to decide what cities their provinces consist of, and instead of a fixed limit for how many there can be in the same province there should be a balanced costs system where the cost of adding more cities to a province should increase for each one, and at the same time the cost for having more provinces should also grow for each one you have. Perhaps with some added scaling for empire size, like having a heavily increased cost for having several provinces while only owning a few cities. The balance should be such that it would be the most feasible to have provinces in sizes of 3-5 cities in my opinion. This way you would never be forced to have wars for the sole reason of satisfying the system, and you could have some added customisation for niche situations where it could be strategically beneficial to have a tiny province of just one city or a giant one of something like 6+ cities, if you have the money for it. 3) The factions themselves should be able to decide what kind of settlement _any_ settlement they capture shall be, kind of like the Chaos Dwarves in TWW3. No building slot restrictions or anything like the current system has, but differences on what kind of buildings and how effective the buildings are depending on if you want the settlement to be a large population center or a more sparsely developed rural area. This would give you the ability to customise and centralise the capabilities of a province by having the different settlement types work together but without the restriction of having exactly one large population center per province. 4) You should be able to appoint governors in all provinces you have. 5) This last one I'm not as sure of, but I think it could be neat to have a "province traditions" skill-tree like in Rome 2 and Attila you can have army and navy traditions separate from the skills of their leaders. I think this would be the best to not have a level cap, just have an increasing "experience" requirement for each added tradition and settlement in the province so that you could technically get all the bonuses but realistically could only focus on a few things in each. Alongside governors I think this would encourage the player to engage more deeply with the province system to gain the best out of it. Sorry for the giant post, putting this all in writing took much more space than I thought.

[@atomicLord97]

I like your idea better than the province system to be honest. I feel like maybe either a system where you can declare on area a walled capitol and then attach a number of areas surrounding to it to make a province could be fun. an province tradition would make a lot of sense cause some areas of the world are well known for certain things. this might just be me but they could do away with the whole province system and just have the one city per region thing but with minor settlements that grow when your pop grows to province access to more building space. but it should be something special that you can't build in major cites. It was a system that I don't know if anyone really liked but it was in empire and napoleon total war and the thought of your population growing and thus smaller settlements popping up around the region the major city controls was something I liked. that and a return to your troops costing population to train like in Rome and Medieval 2 would be a neat little mechanic that would add a since of flavor to a province without it having to lead to "I am invading you to tick province competition off the list" wars from both player and ai.

[@houndofculann1793]

@@atomicLord97 the details of the system also definitely should change depending on the time period. The a system like in Empire and Napoleon where the provinces are giant but there are also loads of small towns that spring up with population growth works well with such more industrialised and globaal setting. My ideas are mainly thought of to go with a setting like Medieval or Rome. I would go so far as to make it possible to only have several large cities centers in a province or none at all, should you want to. But even the smaller settlements should have the option of building fortifications for themselves, just smaller and not as well equipped ones as large cities. And on top of that the players should also be able to build forts again. To avoid players just building large cities everywhere it could be balanced by making them consume a lot of food to function, and having rural settlements only consume food for distinct buildings (such as forts, recruitment buildings and higly developed industry buildings, all of which would be taking people away from the fields) to simulate the reality of rural villages being self-sustaining a lot easier. I think there should be a hybrid system for food like somewhere between what Rome 2 and Attila have, in that having a province sustain its own food requirements would grant some bonuses and having a food deficit in a province would have some maluses but not large enough to actually punish for not having every province be self-sustained.

[@atomicLord97]

​yea, that sounds awesome! I wonder what kind of game people who are fans of total war could make if we all got together and put our ideas into one game.

[@hashtagrex]

empire's province system was by far the best imo. Region capitals that worked like medieval 2, supporting the main buildings, and outlying smaller cities/villages that could hold 1 type of building to boost production or education or whatever else. It retains the historical importance of provinces while not being incredibly rigid and needing you to betray friendly nations just to complete a set for a bonus

[@pose6208]

Empire total war remastered with multiplayer campaign is far too simple and good of an idea to be considered

[@AndysTake]

The absolute sadness but truthness of this statement

[@UlissesSampaio]

I loved Rome 1 and 2. Then, I started playing Warhammer 1, 2, 3. It is impossible for me to go back. Having monster, flying, and caster units adds several new dimensions to the gameplay that historical just can't give. When I tried Rome 2 again, the units felt so samey 😢. Purely gameplay-wise fantasy is naturally unmatched imho.

[@ravioliformuoli39]

A Bronze Age Total War is something that I would’ve been interested in… but then CA announcing Pharaoh, killed it for me. Ancient Egypt is very cool, but having a world-spanning Ancient Bronze Age is what I expected.

[@turboterminator7]

Rip Total War You Deserve Better 😢

[@AndysTake]

absolutely!

[@soren633]

I've been playing heavily modded Empire Total War again for nostalgia sake, after all Darth Mod Empire was probably one of my favorite strategy games of all time. This time I tried out PUA and Empire II and I'm honestly convinced that you could basically just take the same game and just iron out the features, expand the map, address AI and balance it with way more of a historical emphasis and you'd have one of the best games ever. While I do personally love the Warhammer departure, Empire Total War is just an incredible game to play. The graphics still stand up and modders have made the gameplay close to impeccable, creating an actual second Empire Total War would be a dream come true for everyone. It's also so incredibly indicative that player counts are the same between Pharoah and Empire atm.

[@Person0fColor]

Warhammer sucks. There is no "good" warhammer total war. Ive been playing Total War since Shogun back in 01' warhammer is not a total war game, it doesnt feel liek a total war game and damn suer doesnt look like one, Warhammer TW is a mobile game. The sieges 🤣 you literally just run everyone at the wall and they all climb up? 😛 no one carrying ladders or anything they just appear as they start to climb up the wall🤣🤣. I gave warhmmaer 2 a chance and 🤮 game is garbage.

[@Hawker91504]

For those interested, being fed up with the situation, since a month ago a guy has started to make his own game. They are at now 13-15 in the team. Here's their youtube page : www.youtube.com/@BR_Interactive

[@garden_ogrod2369]

I tried every overhaul mods for empire except pua and i want to try it, is it Worth trying? Are the battles still pain in the arse?

[@darkkillerx29]

“Is is stronger than passion. when one truly cares, passion can emerge” -I said that

[@judechauhan6715]

I can't say it's dead yet, all it would take is a Medieval 3 announcement, an Empire 2 announcement and everything is back on with 100% commitment and hype from fans. They just need to realise this and work on it asap like Bannerlord or RDR2 even if it takes ages, make it good and tell people what you're making. They need to do it before they run out of money or start it too late and run out of money midway through development. The advertising, hype, support, investment opportunity etc etc is all there, they just need to give us something to cheer about.

[@MatthewOlney]

I now believe we will never see a new high quality Total War title ever again.

[@matthewtroncone9465]

This really sums up the state of the Total War games from community, business, and gamer perspectives. Attila is the last title that I find myself consistently returning to, mainly due to the modding scene, but also because the new integrity and sanitation mechanics really gave it a grounded, gritty, reactive experience alongside the return of the family tree. The general-based armies have definitely detracted from the strategical maneuvering that was present through to Shogun 2. Now-days, think, do you need a quick-reacting cavalry force to defend the border with a fortified position? Hope you have an arbitrary general-slot available. As a longtime fan (and perhaps a biased one) I think it's obvious what the series needs to draw from across the titles: - Med2's army building and settlement building with a fine-tune-able automanage (add paste-able templates and the late-game grind is solved). - The clear diplomacy system from 3 Kingdoms. - The divisible armies last seen in Shogun 2. - Attila's sanitation and integrity systems adapted for single units and single city/regions. CA and Sega didn't need to streamline the games. They needed to give the player choice in how deep they dive.

[@123pa1n]

sure but the first thing that needs to happen is a new engine, the last 12+ years have prooven that with warcrape there wont be good battles period. At the end of the day to me personally the mechanics are secondary to fun battles, because i still think that the core of TW are the big battles and the only reason i play those games at all.

[@ryankasch5561]

Never did I expect when I bought m2tw in 2011 that I was buying the peak. Now 13 years later, I still play m2tw and wish we had an online mp campaign for it, as none of my friends want to learn an old game that will never be expanded on.

[@ethersin]

CA has the market on this. They can release whatever. There is no competition which is what has stifled good innovation in these games. They also seem to be wanting rid of the previous generation in favour of the instant gratification desire of the younger players. Who would probably pay to win battles. Really need another company trying to get in and give CA a run for their money. Friendly competition helps things grow, in comparison to this stagnation we currently have.

[@ric_reborn]

Rome II and Napoleon are my favorites, I still play then regularly. But since 2018 I don't buy anything from CA, and I will not do it until I forget that they themselves said "If you don't like it, don't play it" so I'm following their instructions on it.

[@smokinfree5555]

I agree Andy .. Sad but true. Lets hope they actually listen this time.

[@AndysTake]

at least we can try to make ourselves heard :)

[@jvoodoochild2755]

We are not in the room when these decisions are made, we do not have the information that they do. I refuse to second guess them just because the game doesn’t appeal to me I don’t have any of the Warhammers, but after 3K, I’m a fantasy leader lover, and Pharaoh doesn’t offer that.

[@smokinfree5555]

@@AndysTake Yes indeed :)

[@elitely6748]

I love Total War games it would be amazing if we got a Napoleon or even Empire sequel its such a beautiful era that could do incredibly well if Creative Assembly actually made it an epic quality game that had an awesome immersive campaign to go alongside with the battles, Just a complex immersive game but it would require a new engine as well. I was never too involved in the Total War community but I never truly realized it was this bad. We can only hope that Creative Assembly learns and listens to their community or that some other people within CA or another company can help. Personally I don't think Total War will end so soon at least not yet I believe it will get better!

[@sonofportsmith4435]

RTW was my first Total War back in 2004. More than 20 years later, I bought the game again (R Remastered to be precise). Why? Because TW’s early-to-late instalments had me engaged, and captured my imagination - as a kid and even now as an adult. What Total War has become is a shadow of its former self.

[@dejack_13]

The all-time peaks of medieval 2 are actually not registered, since you can find on the old parts of the community screenshots of it reaching 10-11k of players

[@etienne8110]

Yeah, these are the recent numbers. And not even factoring those not playing med2 via steam. For ex i m playing sship on a downloaded med2 so not counted as a steam player...

[@anthonya7497]

I absolutely love what you say about the core audience. I've been playing Total War since I can remember and I miss the historical releases so damn much. Three Kingdoms was a massive bummer because I'm Chinese by ethnicity and always prayed to god that they would make a massive historical campaign based in China... but then they made it fantasy instead. This Pharaoh release, I didn't even bother to buy it because of how shit the new releases have been. And yeah, I still play Attila because the main game is a lot of fun.

[@AndysTake]

Appreciate that, mate! Yeah, I couldn't imagine if they'd made like a full Viking Total War game, and then they make it feel arcady and fantasy. 3K had some great campaign mechanics, but the vibe of the game, to me, was more fantasy than realistic maneuvering and strategizing. Attila is fantastic like you say

[@anthonya7497]

@@AndysTake I hope to god they listen to you. Grew up with this game. My uncle had to burn an Empire CD for me lol.

[@domisPL_01]

me too. I started with Shogun 1 during my primary school period. It was expensive to buy PC game as a kid back then :)

[@deonte9014]

Did you not play 3k on records mode?

[@adamg7984]

@@deonte9014 There's literally something that breaks historical fan's interest. I'd be surprised if he even bought the game, despite it having a historical mode. And even in the historical mode, the mechanics of modern games aren't very historical. But I haven't played it because I just don't find the time period that interesting and was turned off like this guy knowing it was a fucking psuedo historical game. Even if it has a mode for historical accuracy, I'm not interested for whatever reason. There's just something about that, like Troy, that ruins my interest in the game despite their being a mode that makes it much more historically accurate.

[@sparky1595]

There is still a reason I go back to Rome Total War Remastered. I still have my original multi disc copy of Rome with a handbook as thick as the game case itself, the Barbarian and Alexander expansion discs and the Medieval 2 discs... what happened to this series

[@Ultrajamz]

We can’t let this become the Madden of strategy.

[@NoradNoxtus]

I can't get enough of these fear mongering videos about CA's very real demise. At this point I want Phill Spender to buy SEGA and ask CA devs what they need and want without the suits breathing down their necks.

[@AndysTake]

That would be great, assuming CA still has the ambition and passion to make amazing and complex games if they have the funds and time for it

[@jordan8538]

I honestly think CA is to blame and not SEGA. SEGA give their developers a lot more freedom than most publishers.

[@cookiecola5852]

@@AndysTake, does it matter at this point… Iam pretty sure once a company has stated officially that they might abandon a game over little interest in dlc, then that is a hard no from most customers about any new product That or its just me

[@christos-marioseftichidis4139]

Pretty sure the kept med3 all these years for a Microsoft release…

[@MunDaneFatt]

Stop. Believe you and me, we all know what happened to Banjo kazooie.

[@Mthis]

I am personally a HUGE fan of the Warhammer TW's over the previous Historical titles i still play and love. But i do want a worthy new Historical title to play alongside Warhammer.

[@TheGoodLuc]

The same. Quality HD historical game would be nice.

[@chemicalmix]

Releasing DLC as a full-game release in the name of profit is the failed strategy of a company that has been taken over by the corporatocracy. Even after their recent statement, i don't really have any confidence that things will ever improve at CA. I think we've seen their best days, and a new pretender will take their throne in the near future. And they did this - deliberately- to themselves, out of greed and hubris.

[@codym7299]

The new free Dynasties update is really well done. I have to say Pharoh has the best foundation for modding now. Can't wait to see the mods

[@aranynineal4509]

I play total war since i remember playing games (i am 18). For me total war medieval 2 was very good, how the units dont stay inside each other, the arrows from the shogun 2 and visuals, blood etc. The map of empire total war, the battles from napoleon, the badass theme of total war rome2, atilas gameplay, even warhammer 1. If they combined everything good from all the games they could make a game that everysingle person that played total war before would play, and they would make the money they want.

[@Farron6]

I think the real tragedy is yet to come. CA has not listened to their community for years and I highly doubt they will see the failure of Pharaoh to reflect on themselves as the problem. Instead I see them double downing on their fantasy settings and DLC policy to squeeze as much cash out of those player bases as possible.

[@rusty_shackleford2226]

Yeah. Like most companies, they will blame the fans. They will claim the fans have become unrealistic. When that's not true. The fans have been asking for the exact same things for a very long time now

[@Person0fColor]

@@rusty_shackleford2226 The warhmmer nerds are destroying Total War, well they already succeeded. God those Warhmmer games are trash

[@zogardgazgull5675]

@@Person0fColor what in the hell you are talking about, you litearlly blaming other players because of CA's fault? Well I never know CA acutally hired a mentally retarded person to create conflict between different community.

[@jhonsilver2116]

Come back to the real world!. If you like to play - you have to PAY. There is no such thing as a free lunch.!!!!

[@Hawker91504]

For those interested, being fed up with the situation, since a month ago a guy has started to make his own game. They are at now 13-15 in the team. Here's their youtube page : www.youtube.com/@BR_Interactive

[@zarroth]

Haven't given them a dime since they never delivered the promised tools for modding empire. It was clear where they were heading when they started making excuses, and then quietly removed all mention of said tools from every website they could.

[@charleskimball2911]

I think they either should have stuck with more historically grounded grand campaigns involving numerous factions during dynamic time periods or boldly taking on something more complex in a more modern setting. Instead, it feels like they just enhanced and added features that no one really cared about in the first place, whilst treating material that's a lot harder to get invested in than say, the Roman empire.

[@KillerSniper55]

Empire 2 is a must and should have the most time and effort put in to it as possible. The potential of a game like that is massive. Imagine the whole world as the campaign map, a time frame that ranges from early napoleonic times all the way to the American civil war or even to the turn of the century, all with full mod support. I would love to see WW1 being added in there as well but that is less likely.

[@Person0fColor]

WW1? you think too small. Empires doesnt even have SA? I want to fight in the Boer war now!

[@saschakohle6845]

Right - an Empire 2 starting somewhere around the 30 years war with a timeline going until 1900. That would be great. But not with that bloody engine that makes every battle boring as hell - you position your units in a longer line then the enemy, then send the cavalry around their flanks and crush them with an enveloping swing of your flank infantry units. Every battle won the same way and the AI doesn't even show the slightest bit of creativity. Booooooring. Whenever I can, I simulate the battles no matter if it costs more casualties.

[@diaha4398]

I would love a total war around the peace of Westphalia. Would love to see tercios, gun wagons, cossacs, winged hussars, naval battles and maybe even some exploration/colonization.

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

I've been begging for a 30 Year's War TW since I was a kid

[@ScepticGinger89]

A historically accurate 30 Years War TW would be awesome, but also really dark and grim, because that war was fought mainly against the civilian population. Commanders were often like "ok so over there is the enemy, but why would I risk fighting them in a battle, when I can march in the other direction, looting, pillaging, murdering and raping everything in my path?"

[@Person0fColor]

@@ScepticGinger89 okay what does that have to do with anything? In medieval you can fight peasant armies and afterwards you can kill all of them. Just some doods doing what their lord told them and now they are all dead. Remember that? remember when you could execute all your captures at the end of a battle? why take that out?

[@chiefmasterofdeepwarrens3208]

That's probably one of the best concepts for a new TW Game I've heard, credit to you

[@Tubehauge]

its insane when seeing how much views this video and sometimes rome 2 and attila videos still get in 2023. a decade with nothing for historical fans yet we are still here waiting!

[@AndysTake]

Absolutely true!

[@Nathan-ct9eh]

Literally CA could throw a community graphics mod and a UI scale on Mid II, Empire, Napoleon and make definitive editions that I would buy - Why instead, they try and do random titles and half baked reskins of Troy (which already didn't do well) is beyond me...

[@the_uglysteve6933]

Im just happily playing away on Napoleon still

[@AndysTake]

Me too man, I just finished an Italy campaign on vh/vh last night and it was fantastic, even on vanilla

[@Talon18136]

I have been enjoying the ntw3 mod for napoleon myself but I still love vanilla napoleon too

[@-DSet]

In 2017 sometime, I swore to never purchase another TW title until they dropped the warscape engine. I figured I'd have to wait another 2 or 3 years at worst... Well, egg on my face. Sadly Paradox has been making similarily poor decisions recently, dumbing down their games to attract a casual audience. Maybe I should just sell my PC and become an engineer or something.

[@Hawker91504]

Or become a coder and create a game that will surpass Total War. ^^

[@henriktw4051]

I've seen a short clip where someone from CA said Pharaoh will be "100 % historically accurate" And that's where I get suspicious. because no game can ever be that. I'm one of those historical core gamers and have only played Empire, Napoleon and Rome 2. I have to say that TW Empire has been my all-time favorite game since it came out and I've spent over 2k hours on it (without mods). For me it is not just a game but also a history lesson of the 18th century with its own library. In my opinion, none of the newer titles can hold a candle to Empire, which is why I keep coming back to it

[@thinkingonyx847]

Not to mention the lack of cavalry units in Pharaoh and Troy which is important in the art of war - I just cant bring myself to buy these games for this exact reason no matter how hard I try. I was shattered when I heard about Pharaoh's failure.

[@mrjohnxtheking]

Troy worked well for me. But apart from that, I am still invested in the old historical titles as well, mostly rome 2 and attila. I just imagine all the potential a medieval 3 title. Just imagine having a map with whole europe and asia in it, with the hord mechanic that now exist for mongols and timurids. That would be awsome

[@IceniTotalWar]

CA are tone deaf, they've never listened and they won't now, they'll double down and blame the player base and come out with more threats and toxicity #ToxicCA , would love to see myself proven wrong but i've been playing since the launch of Shogun 1 and CA have been in a death spiral for a long time. Total War is their bread and butter and with all their resources each and every new game should have been better than the last and much better than the earliest but CA have decided to fo in the opposite direction.

[@MsSirAndy]

Well, I'm expecting a Medieval 3 or an Empire 2 in a matter of 1-3 years at most. A Medieval 2 remastered is also down the line!

[@IceniTotalWar]

I think we'll get a Remaster next year, maybe earlier than what was originally planned due to how badly Pharaoh has sold. I would expect Med 2 as i think for Feral that would be easier than doing ETW Remaster, Feral has experience with Rome 1 and RR and Med 2 is built on Rome 1. ETW I think would be harder to Remaster because of the engine and coding, RR, Rome 1 and Med 2 on mobile look very well done from what ive seen.@@MsSirAndy

[@MsSirAndy]

@@IceniTotalWar Yes, I agree with you! I think after Medieval 2 (like in 2025-2030, getting closer to the 25th and 30th anniversaries of the series) they may be going for the originals Shogun and Medieval (after a cheap mobile port for testing the waters and the demand for an eventual remaster) followed then by Empire and Napoleon, or maybe Empire/Napoleon first and then the original titles with the opposite order. Btw, I think those will be all remastered and ported on mobile at some point. It is more a matter of 'when' than a matter of 'if'. They decided to start with Rome because it's more popular and gives more secure revenue having a higher playerbase (they did it as a try to test the waters to see if there is demand for other older or newer titles). Nostalgia sells well nowadays. Obviously, all of those will take years for sure. Do you agree with my predictions or am I wrong in your opinion?

[@MsSirAndy]

@@IceniTotalWar BTW, Feral is very unpredictable with their plans so you never know what they could be having in the docks 😅 They might even deliver a Civ 1 mobile lmao Anyways, I wouldn't be surprised if CA is willing to port and remaster their entire catalogue

[@planescaped]

Total War games haven't been worthwhile for a very long time. It really feels like all the talented people who made the old games so good are long gone, and what we have left are people attempting to copy the successes of those who came before them without any understanding of what worked and made them good.

[@kaspernielsen9149]

Honestly I'm just tired of having to buy multiple DLCs in order to play certain nations...

[@SerPandemonium]

I’m quite young, still being in high school, but Total War has still had a lasting impact on me (mostly because of my dad introducing me to the series.) Shogun 2 was my first game, and while I actually quite enjoy the Warhammer games, Shogun is still my favorite. The Total War Series was the thing that sparked my interest in history in the first place, and I agree wholeheartedly that a new, full, historical game is needed. MEDIEVAL III!!!

[@julianjackson6824]

Medieval III would hit the spot but surely a cheaper option for CA to hit the jackpot would be M2 Remastered? It seems pretty obvious to me.

[@vineveer4358]

As a TW:Warhammer player, the first taste of historical I got was thrones of britania. From what I understand it's not just me thinking 'oh historical titles are bland', it really was just a very under baked game on its own. The releases I've seen since then include Three Kingdoms, which had very mixed reviews and I wasn't ready to get my wallet bit by a risky purchase again. After that was Troy, which CA seemingly was so unconfident about they were trying to give away the game for free before and at launch. And now pharoh, which is pretty much a troy side-expansion. I like the idea of a historical total war title, I just don't want to have to play a retro game to do that. The audience that showed up with the warhammer total war series hasn't seen a good historical total war game yet.

[@BRZno86]

I don’t understand why people hate rome 2 but love attila. When they are the same with separate dates and different interfaces. I like them both, personally