This Classic Anime Couldn't Be Made Today

[@Stevem]

Sources docs.google.com/document/d/1dFUUp45buHRXqqjmB6qH-r0rJa8rYEek1Ahvnal4ZW8/edit?usp=sharing

[@planclops]

I remember my dad watching this when I was very young and thought I dreamt up the whole thing until much later when I visited an anime expo. Glad this is being covered.

[@Stevem]

its a rare one in tone for sure

[@JanneSala]

Got to see this film at a local cinema a few years ago, and it was a transcendental experience. The religious shivers I got during the swelling of the choir as the "angel's" fossilized skeleton was revealed inside the Arc were unmatched. The sheer scale of this movie shines on the big screen just like other 80s mega-animations like Akira, but instead of larger-than-life action and vistas, it sucks you in to a dreamlike pocket universe. Mad stuff.

[@Stevem]

Yeah it's really made for the big screen ironically

[@xyanide1986]

Man I am jealous

[@always_molasses7419]

I didn't know about the existence of the layout crisis, but my god it makes so much sense. Vast, VAST majority of anime nowadays has characters placed in the goofiest places that ruin world believability and self-consistency. Makes sense as to why Frieren and Tengoku Daimakyou looked and felt so good imo

[@Stevem]

frieren has pretty strong layouts as far as i remember

[@lxdead5585]

@@Stevem I don't know why people praise it so much while it's just "ok" in comparison to Dungeon Meshi. After I have finished the manga I wasn't surprised that TIGER wanted to adapt it so badly - it's guaranteed to become classic in near future. Story, writing, comedy, characters, designs, art style,premise and it's ending.. it's 10/10.

[@Stevem]

both are good in different ways, depends on what you want there isnt a contest

[@lxdead5585]

@@Stevem not hating it, Frieren for sure is a quality tittle, but Dungeon Meshi is - at least in my opinion - a better show.

[@Stevem]

@@lxdead5585 im very much looking forward to season 2 on dungeon meshii whenever it releases

[@vindik8or]

Auteur is actually French for author, and I think that captures the idea more accurately. A lone writer sitting alone in a room creating and and crafting the entire artistic vision of a work, and it also exposes the flaw in the idea when it comes to deeply collaborative artforms like film, and moreso animation, that require the creative output of a whole army of people. I think Western culture in particular is allured by the idea of the Great Man of History, around which major events and cultures orbit, and without whom things just could not have happened. This isn't entirely untrue when you look at an animation, but people tend to stop at the first big name they see and declare them the auteur, but if you keep looking you will find many, many more names without whom the film could not have been made.

[@Stevem]

lets just say there's a reason that the idea was adopted by producers in the animation industry opposed to the directors and animators themselves it was for marketing. Oshii in particular isnt an animator by trade so his works need the hand of a "translator" between his boards and script to something that then works for the animation crew

[@matheus5230]

​​​​@@StevemI think I've read that Oshii's main influences are from arthouse cinema rather than any anime. The films of Ingmar Bergman and Andrei Tarkovsky, for example. Your description seems to put Oshii in the same ballpark of Isao Takahata, who drew strong live-action influence and was known as the director who couldn't draw. It's interesting to think, though, about how credits work and the many ways they have been misunderstood by the public. Before auteur theory, directors were often seen as just cogs in the machine. The producers reaped all the glory. If you look at contemporary press for the death of Leon Schlesinger, the producer of the studio behind the Looney Tunes cartoons of the 30s till the mid-40s (he sold the studio to Warner), the press credited him as the creator, even though we would eventually learn that his involvement was minimal, certainly far less than someone like Walt Disney (this also meant that the directors and animators at Warner had far more creative freedom than at Disney, and the higher-ups at Warner couldn't care less about animation and interfering, as long as the cartoons didn't break schedule or budget). It was only in the 80s that the likes of Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett, Friz Freleng, Tex Avery and other directors, animators and writers finally started getting recognition from the wider public.

[@Stevem]

​@@matheus5230 oshii draws a lot better than takahata, his influences are pretty broad if anything his time at tatsunoko had the most impact on his approach, there's an interview in one of his book where after this point he was trying to figure out what kind of the director he's to his audience, the answer after angels egg was not avangarde so he went towards grind house it's a bit of marketing approach

[@matheus5230]

​@@StevemThat's interesting. It's great when an artist has very diverse influences.

[@AF-nh2ux]

I'll always respect animators that find a way to squeeze out an arthouse film. There's a lot of opposition to films like this and a huge stigma to overcome.

[@Stevem]

Yeah could lose you work too lol like oshii

[@AF-nh2ux]

@@Stevem Then there's people like Takahata who somehow got 50 million US dollars to make what was essentially an arthouse film lol. Maybe the trick is to make something that executives understand as culturally and historically important.

[@Stevem]

​@@AF-nh2uxwell that was like a producers dying wish type deal he had to convince takahata not the other way round

[@aronhelios1734]

​@@AF-nh2uxit's called having a favorable environment. Takahata was one of the founders of Ghibli and was strongly supported by Miyazaki and Suzuki respected them both and always found ways to make their visions as directors profitable.

[@matheus5230]

It's even more impressive back in those days. Hell, just getting an animated feature made at all is impressive and showcases fantastic determination. It is easier today by comparison (Gints Zilbalodis did his first feature animation, Away, all by himself, which would be impossible by comparison), but never easy, and that's without factoring the matter of marketing, distribution. All of this is why building connections with other animators is crucial, you don't want to burn bridges with everyone.

[@veetitanskanen1003]

Thanks for the video! I hope there will be a European Blu-ray/4K release of Angel’s Egg in the near future. I watched this movie for the first time this year and fell in love with it.

[@Stevem]

There's a good chance since France already should have one in the works

[@quintussilenius4324]

ah, angel's egg. ever since i first watched it in the early 2000s (and back then, it was _really_ hard to find), i was completely taken by its mystery. i didn't care much about the supposed 'symbolism' of its plot (i do believe works like this are not meant to have a set interpretation), but what puzzled me was how something like this even came about. it surely is a film that couldn't be made today - but it also is not really a film that could be made back then either. even for the time when people basically were throwing money at anything animated, greenlighting - let alone actually producing - something so strange and out seemed like a miracle. ...and from what i gather from your research, a miracle it was. thank you for making this video.

[@Stevem]

Yes, it basically was barely made at the time and the amount of money given to the project is very small. Even at the time you still had to have some kinda logic of why the project should get cash i.e based of existing franchise with viewership has potential because of this reason.

[@gustavohernandeza.890]

excellent series so far, Stevem looking forward to the Patlabor episode next

[@Stevem]

hopefully at some point lol

[@SABNISTANMAY]

​@@Stevem Bro I would love to see you dissecting Sky Crawlers, another underrated Oshii gem and my personal favourite from him.

[@Stevem]

it will be part of the series

[@TheMightyPika]

Thank you so much for making this. I never thought one of my favorite KZbinrs would do one on his deep background dives on one of my favorite movies. What a holiday miracle.

[@Stevem]

Glad you enjoyed!

[@HaydenTheHistorian]

the scamboli shade in the title is craaaazy lmao go off king

[@Stevem]

lol

[@fordesponja]

Is not only him, unfortunately. I've seen that kind of shit on shorts and twitter clickbait. Some of these genuely believe there is no way to reproduce the feeling of cell animation when there are short films on this platform doing that.

[@IAMA1]

I was wondering if that was a subliminal lol. I enjoyed his Wolf's Rain video well enough, but the proclaimations of "wAow they drew this with pencil" didn't feel necessary since it was inked digitally like all modern anime, so the texture and nuances of the pencil drawings wouldn't even show in the final product. And aren't there a handful of digital productions in which some animators animate on pencil? You could literally make that show today (in terms of visual aesthetic at least)

[@Stevem]

​@@IAMA1all anime is drawn with pencils or the newer animators prefer tablets but then the corrections might involve the a.d printing it out and redrawing it for corrections. I haven't seen the video so I don't know the angle they're taking on that I thought the title could be a good grab though lol

[@IAMA1]

@@Stevem Ohh I was under the impression that pencil drawing animators were in the minority by now even in Japan since a lot of the layout and key animation I've seen in recent years was digital, especially with the rise of CSP. Scam's video basically only mentioned the "traditional" aspects of Wolf's Rain for a bit, mainly to punctuate the quality of the background art and the way characters are drawn. Most of the video is lightly touching on the intriguing way the story is told to entice people to watch without giving major spoilers. I think it's a good pitch for people who haven't heard of the show, though I was already anticipating it due to Yoko Kanno doing the score and the screenwriter of Cowboy Bebop working on it.

[@Stevem]

I'm noticing an issue that must have happened in the export too many crossfades whoops it was not in the original edit, I'll have to sort that in the anthology video apologies

[@SABNISTANMAY]

Angel's egg is art at its purest. It might not make sense for the most part, the interpretations are all personal and can't be objectified but it pierces through you and makes you feel something about your life.

[@Stevem]

yeah that's punctum for you

[@byttercandy]

I’ve always been interested in this production. Thanks for covering it

[@Stevem]

No worries!

[@PokemonRangerMisty]

Another amazing video, I love your hand drawn visuals.

[@Stevem]

Thank you so much 😀

[@AbrahamLure]

I​@@Stevem I had no idea you did this art yourself, amazing

[@Stevem]

yep all the oshiis are mine

[@pingpong5877]

Angel's Egg walked so Dark Souls could run. God, I love both of them.

[@Stevem]

there could even be some vibes prior in kings field or something too

[@ENSIBDumb]

Good video as always. Good to hear the distribution right were reacquired. I'd love to see this movie in theaters in the future.

[@Stevem]

Hey should be coming soon

[@TheComiKen]

Everything behind the creation of this masterpiece is so fascinating. The craft required in the girl's hair ALONE puts 90% of modern anime to shame. Great compilation and presentation of the production!🙏

[@Stevem]

the hair stuff alway made releasing this impossible even back then

[@riccardomazzaro1901]

This video is so beautiful, it made me want to watch Angel's Egg again. I love that you're on your personal crusade against the auterism which pollutes this industry, it's such a common misconception that still makes it so some of these works are entirely attributed to single people when they are a coral work. The influence Suzuki had in this is insane, if there ever was a real auteur and master of storytelling in Japan, it was him, only that he expleted his art in the realm of marketing and not in the one of cinematography.

[@Stevem]

well the marketing did fail here lol but having suzuki behind you to help get ghibli support is something

[@riccardomazzaro1901]

​@@StevemI mean that it helped market Miyazaki to the international market. It didn't work for Oshii this time, but I think that the impact of Suzuki's work can definitely still be felt today.

[@Stevem]

​@@riccardomazzaro1901Suzuki knows how to sell Miyazaki although while he has had a handle on Miyas image he wasn't super involved with international sales that was usually left up to the distributor, in the long term they've achieved something grass roots through strong home release sales and streaming but Disney was not the right fit in comparison to gkids who have had much better success overall at the box office, though Disney got them the first Oscar

[@Yixdy]

Never stop bro, i love your stuff. Also the pivot to "caricatures" is really cute, i hope it saves your wrist a bit too

[@Stevem]

Caricature matched what I wanted to do with the series the animated portraits still exist in a similar way though I like to use the caricature to play with comp and perspective

[@WarriorTier]

I was waiting for this one! Awesome video as usual

[@Stevem]

thank you!

[@Noizzed]

Wow, only when i finished the video i realized this only has 9.5K views, when it clearly deserves more! I know videos on this Anime are many, but i thought your video was very well researched, and of great value. Keep doing such thought provoking videos!

[@Stevem]

Thanks for watching ! I only released it yesterday so it has time to grow

[@OMNOMoreo]

A friend just showed me this movie tonight. Absolutely perfect timing on this upload for me! Another great video, love your work.

[@Stevem]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@durfdurffigan8680]

"Stalker" the anime.

[@robert.mercer294]

Thanks for making this video. This is my favorite movie and I appreciate it being talked about.

[@Stevem]

No problem!

[@blufudgecrispyrice8528]

Fantastic video as always, you just keep on raising the bar for KZbin anime analysis (or any video imo). I love how you so effortlessly introduce the staff behind the project, your illustrations really do bring them to life and capture their energy. Please do rest your hands adequately. I've only recently watched Solaris, I've yet to watch anything else of Tarkovsky's. I loved it but it did take me a while to realise that Angel's Egg ended the same (or similar?) way. And honestly with your edits of all the flowing seaweed, I'm constantly reminded of Solaris. I haven't watched Angel's Egg in a long time. Perhaps I will in the future and see other similarities. Love the whole Auteur explanation you have going on. It only made sense for the French New Wave Directors really. Although, I've always heard Angel's Egg more associated with Amano than with Oshii. I love Amano's art but have only really known him for Angel's Egg and Final Fantasy, might be time to check out the rest of his work. Kobayashi is a legend I've only learnt of late. His backgrounds really use impressionism in a perfect complement to what's happening in the story. First time I'm hearing of Nakura, I'll look into him too. That punctum point of yours resonates with me. Did I understand much of anything in Angel's Egg, Solaris or 2001? Hell no. But it sure did leave a very lasting impression on me. I could say the same for Playtime as well. And any of Kon's work too I guess. The music was pretty piercing as well, lol. I forgot until you played some excerpts.

[@Stevem]

The endings do seem similar between Solaris and angels egg is assume that was the type of ending oshii wanted

[@blufudgecrispyrice8528]

@@Stevem Yeah probably. To be fair, it's too cool not to copy. Edit: Phrasing

[@gangganggang2219]

Love the way you respect and admire their craft without deifying the creators. While its fun to get caught up in the mystical side of art and artists, I appreciate the balance you bring to these videos. Love your work!

[@Stevem]

Thank you for the kind comment I do my best

[@jonathanbrooks1651]

Heard a little about Angel's Egg, but I'm definitely intrigued now (especially with the upcoming official release). You also reminded me that I need to check out Tarkovsky.

[@Stevem]

he's got some good albeit slow films that its quite easy to fall asleep too

[@chunksss]

Great stuff - thanks Stevem!

[@Stevem]

thanks chunkssss!!!!

[@jamescorvus6709]

Back in 2012 at New York Comic Con, I met Yoshitaka Amano. I told him I loved Angel's Egg and his interpreter told me that he doesn't remember that movie. I was kind of dishearten but then I started talking about Gatchaman and he drew me Ken the Eagle , which at first I though was a weird signature.

[@Stevem]

Huh that's funny because in 2020 he gave a whole q and a talk about angels egg and he wrote a whole section in his auto biography about it

[@glowerworm]

First movie i watched high was this one, for the first time. I am truly not the same person before and after this movie. Love it, a very sacred movie for me.

[@Stevem]

Lol bit of chaotic mix there

[@creekandseminole]

I first watched this on the IFC channel years ago. I was constantly posting on Criterion Collection videos and webpages for them to release this and make it their first anime.

[@Stevem]

Yeah not possible at the time I'm afraid

[@TrackZero]

When I was 8 years old, I watched this strange post-apocalyptic movie up here in Canada. It was both anime and live action, with a confusing plot but scenes that haunted me throughout my life. For 3 decades I searched the internet with vague descriptions of what I'd seen, to no avail. Even when noticing the Final Fantasy art by Amano looked so familiar, I didn't put it together. Finally one day I ran into Angel's Egg and the pieces started falling into place. So fun thing you may not know Steve; but back in 1987 Roger Corman's New World Entertainment bought the NA rights to Angel's Egg, decided it was utterly nuts and needed to be spliced into a newly filmed live action movie to bring some coherence to the story. "In The Aftermath" was born, with the live action segments being Carl Colpaert's first film (who went on to have quite the career to this day). And since New World Entertainment's content was cheap to license, the newly created "First Choice" movie network in Canada played it on a regular rotation for a number of months. Seeing the live action version of the girl with the egg running into these post-apoc characters surviving in a wasteland, very bizarre. Especially when you find out it was filmed at the same location as Terminator 2. It's a fairly short film, hopefully you'll find it fascinating. It got a blu-ray 2k restoration in 2019. Also just one thing you forgot to mention; Angel's Egg was on LaserDisc, not just VHS. ;D Great vid as always, bunch of production facts I never knew before, totally enjoyed it. Keep up the great work!!

[@Stevem]

Yeah I'm aware of the rights stuff with in the aftermath as mentioned here and I know about the laserdisk though I'm not sure what the cost for it was back then lol likely more than VHS even Yeah in England arrow film released it I met the people who run the label a while back in passing I have a few of their releases was even thinking of getting that one but never did lol

[@TrackZero]

@@Stevem Checking the jacket, it was 8800 yen at the time (1986 release). Sorry, didn't notice other comments already covering in the aftermath, since I had the video tab open from when it was posted.

[@Stevem]

​@@TrackZeroI'm surprised it's cheaper than the VHS then

[@TrackZero]

@@Stevem Hunh, yeah that's crazy. I see it was 12800 yen on the VHS jacket. Both are Animage releases. Head scratcher for sure. Price is on the back in the bottom left of the LD jacket if you wanna look up images to see for yourself. Maybe Animage just had a bad deal with their VHS printer or a really good one for LDs at the time.

[@Mattaisu]

Oh great I can watch this in my living room now yatta! Looking forward to your next Oshii videos. Again love the moody lights and the relaxed pace. A beer and some edamame or pop corn mouah "chef's kiss".

[@Stevem]

glad you enjoyed! there's a technical error in this version which came when i added the sponsor and patron sections so the one on patreon might be a bit tighter in that regard but regardless i hope you like it!

[@IAMA1]

This video got me triple excited for the limited release next year. I already knew about Amano's incredible art work and designs for the film, but I didn't know much about essential Nakura was in bringing the character art to life through his animation directing. This film's high line count and visual aesthetic looks like something you would only see in short film animation. It's truly a miracle that a feature of this quality was achieved.

[@Stevem]

A miracle is the right word lol 400 cuts is also very small for a 70 min movie, most anime films have over 1000 at least

[@IAMA1]

Damn. I would love to see more feature animation take advantage of more atmospheric long takes. That one with the tanks looks absolutely mesmerizing. And on the topic of insane line counts, part of me looks at some of the animation in this video and thinks of studio GoHands. Their shows often have insane line count character designs, particularly for the hair, but they've never been able to achieve that standard of quality despite always trying. It's so weird to try such an AD and inbetweener nightmare on a modern TV anime production...multiple times.

[@Stevem]

​@@IAMA1I think with go hands it's a feature not a bug the clashing and contrasting bits seem to be their motif, go hands has a unique situation too as one of the few animation studios in Osaka and even fewer who aren't a support company they basically suck up all the local artists and have their own inhouse inbetweening department where I get the impression their novices start

[@IAMA1]

@@Stevem Having inhouse inbetween staff would explain how they're able to make what they do. And it's pretty interesting that they're one of the few studios in Osaka. Even if their shows are typically hard to look at for me, particularly because of their art direction and composite, they're always an interesting studio to keep up with on a technical level. Hell, I'm genuinely excited to check out Momentary Lily because of how much work it takes to make something that looks like that.

[@Stevem]

they have aspirations ill give them that even putting a fair few originals, but yeah outside tokyo there's a fairly limited amount of studios in other cities

[@lordtak]

Every time i see Angels egg, it reminds me so much of Gene Wolfe's "Book of the New Sun". It parallels so closely for imagery and atmosphere and even the religious imagery.

[@Stevem]

oshii reads a lot he might have read that one who knows

[@lordtak]

@Stevem it's my dream that Oshii and Amano would come together and make a BotNS anime adaptation.

[@Stevem]

@@lordtak oshiii is at the age where he doesnt say no to projects anymore so if the author approached him hed do it

[@milquetoasted]

Ah, Book of the New Sun. Finished it and I was like "Did that happen?"

[@rosiisartistic]

I love how informed you are! I learned so much from your videos, especially as an aspiring mangaka/comic artist

[@Stevem]

I'm glad you're enjoying!

[@edwardvincentbriones5062]

i read an article (a thesis) and there is a section wherein Suzuki interferes in Only Yesterday (1991, Studio Ghibli). this video reinforces it. Only Yesterday changed my life when I first saw it a few years ago.

[@sweetpotatodato6068]

Angel’s Egg is one of my favorite movies. Every time I watch it I feel inspired to create something.

[@Stevem]

its pretty powerful visually

[@LathropLdST]

Reminds me of the animation of Fantastic Planet (1973)

[@Stevem]

I can see it vibe wise

[@ericlewis3444]

Oh man, Beautiful Dreamer was so out there. An absolute animation treasure.

[@Stevem]

haha it was for a UY film but angel's egg pushes that even further

[@lxdead5585]

I'd love to see this tyep of documentary about Vampire Hunter D or Ninja Scroll! Solid work!

[@Stevem]

i've made videos on both of them in the past

[@lxdead5585]

@@Stevem rly? never saw it, gonan check asap :D thanks

[@barvelo26]

Wow I didn't know about this! I'm definitely going to check out angels egg I love this kind of animation and the nuance stuff

[@Stevem]

I'm glad!

[@kandicemir2514]

What an excellent video you know I thought you’re gonna explain more about the cancelled lupin movie and to see how your style would’ve worked but I was little bit disappointed but it was alright for me I still think angel’s egg is one of oshii’s first masterpiece of an anime he ever crafted right down from the atmosphere and the themes and the two characters are executed perfectly and I hope your series about the journey on oshii’s career and to showcase how much he involved during the industry can be naturally enjoyable so came up with your channel and remember to stay as a great anime reviewer

[@Stevem]

there's not a ton out there on it the pitch didnt get so far there's a couple different outlines about what it was suppose to feature but it and angels egg dont share a ton

[@chickenflavor9880]

I fucking love this movie so much godamn. One of the most dreamlike movies ever.

[@Stevem]

Very dreamie core

[@echos-myron]

Aesthetically perfect. Seems impossible that the world doesn’t exist in reality. Another Miyazaki paid homage to it perfectly as well in the Dark Souls series especially the end of DS3’s DLC. Thanks Steve; my favorite animation channel; breaking down one of my favorite Anime’s. ❤

[@Stevem]

no problem!

[@Doomroar]

That final quote threw me off balance!

[@Stevem]

yeah one of miyazakis more crackhead moments

[@lamecasuelas2]

This Is a very well Made retrospective. Thank you

[@Stevem]

thank youuu

[@rayth217]

Angel’s egg is apparently going to be in US theaters sometime in 2025.

[@Stevem]

yeah via gkids i heard it was happening in January

[@sirexilon49]

I remember that when I watched Angel's Egg I was a little bit surprised by how short it was and now I was suprised again when I heard in this video that it was only 17 minutes long.

[@Stevem]

70 min

[@sirexilon49]

@@Stevem Okay. Then it makes sense why I was so surprised; I misheard it lol

[@jmiquelmb]

I for the love of god can't understand how the Japanese critic audience didn't enjoy this movie. I can understand how the lack of cohesive story and all the interpretation may not be for everyone, but the storyboarding, layout and animation are god like and so different from anything before and even after. It's not a bad movie by any means. It's a movie that you might not like but you can't help but appreciate. Also, I'm pretty sure I watched it thanks to Dark Souls 3: The Ringed City.

[@Stevem]

well critics in japan at the time broadly didnt respect animation so likley that played a factor it had some defenders of course but the creators seem to mainly remember bad reviews

[@scottdarrington6009]

Lovely video on my favorite movie. Incredibly excited for the Blu-ray release next year.

[@Stevem]

Yeah I hope it goes well

[@retroanimemike]

There is a surprising number of videos on Angel's Egg, and most of them deal with interpreting the work. That is fun (for the most part) but nobody tells you how the film was actually made. Nobody but Stevem! Great work as always! I knew Oshii almost gambled his career away with the film but the no pay just royalties bit is just silly, like do you just hate financial security. The film got so obscure i saw it first at a screening at a leftist commune type place.

[@Stevem]

yeah i mean the rights being sold off didnt help that one either, oshii does say over the years like a decade or so after he did have people approach about buying internation rights in certain countries but he coouldnt do anything

[@TryinaD]

ANGEL’S EGG MY FAVORITE ANIME OF ALL TIME!! Oh my god I love how more people are discovering it

[@Stevem]

Hopefully more soon !

[@jon4715]

Incredible. Thank you.

[@Stevem]

no worries

[@CornishCreamtea07]

3:45 I might have misheard you there.

[@Stevem]

"and that's why angel;s egg got the green light"

[@CornishCreamtea07]

@@Stevem It must have been a soft g then. I thought you said Anuls Egg.

[@Stevem]

​@@CornishCreamtea07I think my throat was going lol at some point I was debated rerecording a couple lines but I didn't do many in the end since I thought the tracks would be hard to match without feeling like completely separate recordings

[@Vallejo_the_artist]

Can’t wait to see this in theaters

[@Stevem]

hopefully it will be shown all over

[@tsk67166]

I've seen "Angel's Egg" many years ago. I'm not sure if I liked at that time... Possibly yes, because I weirdly enjoy that kind of atmosphere. Maybe because I watched, much much earlier, some similar dark animations from Europe. I'd definitely re-watch "Angel's Egg", and all those other surreal productions, which keep haunting my memories. BTW, I believe "Angel's Egg" also influenced Tsutomu Nihei, when he was drawing "Blame!".

[@Stevem]

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case I know he's a fan of oshiis other works

[@zainmudassir2964]

Hope Stevem makes a movie like Angel's egg

[@Stevem]

Maybe one day lol sounds hard

[@minespatch]

I notice that Fromsoftware music 😏😏

[@Stevem]

A reference of things to come

[@stheteller7470]

Holy PEAK! I can't wait to finally see this movie in theaters, though I think a movie like Angel's Egg could possibly still be made today, the only things that could never be made again are things where copyright is involved like who Framed Roger Rabbit. Amazing video as usual, Mr. Stevem.

[@Stevem]

The logistics of making it are next to impossible if we mean in the exact same way. You could make a short animation similar, something like Franz Kafka's A Country Doctor, but that sort of stuff is done outside the anime industry

[@redcomn]

Shoujo anime = telenovela Man now I cannot unseen the similarities.

[@Stevem]

Huh

[@Stevem]

Captions are complete!

[@jimmyzbike]

I arrived late to the Oshii fan club. Punching my card on GITS, since then working backwards and eventually forwards. His sci-fi vision is perfection.

[@Stevem]

Well I hope to cover it all going forward

[@Diorthosis]

The fact that this is an exceedingly rare gem is self evident, but I had no idea how rare! We appreciate the work you’ve done to add context and demystification to an otherwise bewildering art deux ex machina (assuming that demystifying Tenchi no Tomago were possible). Towards that end, I have committed many feverish hours researching the symbolism until I was satisfied that I had it all explained. Despite Oshi letting on that the film has no particular meaning and rather designed to appeal to the subconscious, there are many intentional “Easter Eggs” for those who are looking. Without Angels Egg as a true labor of love, we probably would not have got the richness and excellence of GitS and his other projects. I believe this work has had an understated impact on human culture.

[@Stevem]

Gits actually was not oshiis decision ,he was forced on the project by IG who needed him to do it as a favour

[@Diorthosis]

@ who needs fiction when we already have reality? lol

[@wrestledeep]

One of the most beautiful videos that i have seen capturing the making and general feel of Angel's Egg. I do believe if more modern anime/animation creators had more of this auteur spirit, they can actually create and be successful today in the market with their personal vision because right now the market is flooded with cash-grab manga remakes and never-ending anime series' that go until they are finally cancelled. Is it not possible to start a new "French New Wave" in Anime now that we have AI technology and it is possible to do more with less creators on a project?

[@Stevem]

Auteurism means nothing in anime without a good schedule and salaried staff team you won't achieve good outcomes and good outcomes are not always the ones that make money. Ai tech is a complete lie and is no where close enough to replace labour in any way all it will do is give animation directors far more work.

[@fraktaalimuoto]

I hope I will be one day able to see this film.

[@Stevem]

It's becoming easier by the day

[@2460-1]

This is insane research. How is your output weekly or biweekly?

[@Stevem]

it's not usually lol I've been working on this project for a while the first three parts are now together but likley theyll be a while until the next couple come out

[@weirdy8]

I think the closest I’ve come to an Angel’s Egg experience in modern times was Children of the Sea.

[@Stevem]

Yeah I did feel similar with it's over worldly essence

[@JanHell666]

I wonder how the pitch meating would sound like if Oshi had a little George Costanza in him?

[@Stevem]

horribly wrong in 22 minutes or less im guessing

[@JanHell666]

@@Stevem haha he would scream "it's a show about nothing!"

[@imbe.]

I liked Angel's Egg. Here in Finland it got into Anime/Manga magazines and so on. Its a good watch for chill evening that requires no thinking.

[@Stevem]

interesting it made it there too

[@imbe.]

@@Stevem With this short explanation i'll make it less interesting. One certain Anime is one of our national treasures. Anime in Finland had a very strong fanbase ever since early 90s centered around 'Hopeanuoli' a.k.a Silver Fang as biggest fanbase back then. We have dubbed almost all animated series we got our hands to ever since the first dub team was established in god knows when. Moomins as of our national treasure was dubbed to Finnish twice by now and 'moomins' series in its technicality is an Anime because the cartoon was produced in Japan by japanese team and even dubbed for japanese and their audience. there is even a very rare lost media version of low budget "actual anime moomins" with characters a bit off color that exclusively for japanese audience..

[@Stevem]

@@imbe. silverfang is an interesting show to get big since its still very unknown in english speaking regions yeah theres several moomins series produced in japan that 90s one was a co production with finland, i know it was popular in england since the bbc dubbed it

[@imbe.]

@@Stevem Ohh yeah. I had encountered the English dubbed moomin. I found it a very relaxing watch as the characters have that soft warmth in their speech.

[@mausklick1635]

I like your style of youtubes.

[@Stevem]

Thank you 🙏

[@DirtyMike124x]

As a Dark Souls 3 fan, I am very familiar with this from the number of videos I have seen bring it up and discuss it, but am yet to watch it myself. I've been craving something to really capture attention and intrigue. I'm probably going to finally watch it now. This is one I am a little afraid to watch, my imagination has hyped it up a lot. I am going to hold off on this video until I watch it, it has been years since I've seen any videos even briefly covering Angel's Egg. I only remember the broad premise. It will be a fresh experience for me. I am curious what I will get from what it.

[@Stevem]

Well I hope you enjoy it

[@DirtyMike124x]

​@@Stevem I did enjoy it. Also greatly enjoyed your video, you clearly did your homework. Well rounded while also really digging into the meat. The other videos I have seen from you on anime / topics I am interested in have also been great. After years of various anime KZbinrs, you are a top pick when I am seeking to broaden my horizons, gain new insight, and/or see things I already admire in a different light. I came from a pretty extreme Seventh Day Adventist background, and was the first of my generation in my family to permanently stray from that faith when young. Suffice to say, that was a very intriguing watch, that I will spare you from my own half baked Rorschach Test of an interpretation of lol. Floating Statue Sphere God knows there's enough of those floating around! Like many others, I for sure had a very personally subjective and especially raw evocative experience with it, given how much time and space they leave for the imagination to frolic. It was refreshing.... As I'm thinking about it, the only other anime I can immediately recall that evoked something similar with me, was one of the shorts from Robot Carnival, "Presence", the one with the man who made the automaton doll that he smashes after she comes to life. Certainly glad to have taken the time to watch it, your video was the final straw. That intense audio and music you mentioned must have been quite the experience on an actual sound system. 🤣 Even at home on my own small set up, my two cats had a few of the more discordant, shrill scenes jolt them from their otherwise peaceful, ambience induced slumbers haha. Thank you for sharing your work and your passion. (P.S. : my ears love picking up on low volume Demon's Souls background music, really speaks to the Stan in me)

[@Stevem]

​@@DirtyMike124x yeah you have no idea it's actually a bit painful in the cinema since most of the time it's so quiet, but yeah I'm glad to see another angels egg fan

[@igodreamer7096]

The angel's egg is about to fly, but what a cost ⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@Stevem]

hopefully the cost of a ticket to see the movie

[@CiganoCorinthiano]

I love this film so much, it's my second favorite from Oshii, I watched first time some years ago because of a comparison between it and a Dark Souls 3 dlc. It's such a beautyfull film every scene of it is branded in my mind.

[@Stevem]

what's the first

[@Brilchan]

Thanks for the cool video

[@Stevem]

Glad you enjoyed !

[@Nobody-sf2kx]

In 2017 or 18 I watched this movie age 15 on my ipad while eating Doritos and I loved it 🤭 Think your video convinced me, so thanks

[@Stevem]

David Lynch spinning

[@linda3ken4]

4K restoration in 2025. coming soon.

[@Stevem]

Yeah looking forward to it

[@sebastianuber4085]

For the Algorithm

[@Stevem]

thank yoU!

[@CapybaraEnjoyer95]

Excellent video, but what's the context for that quote at the end?

[@Stevem]

the creation of the failed movie anchor a ghibli movie that was suppose to be directed by oshii x.com/htGOIW/status/1467334793763655680/photo/1

[@wonder_of_doom]

There is one thing i wanted to clear up since i had read and heard by some people oshii was blacklisted by suzuki or some other producer is that true?

[@Stevem]

No, oshii said no one wanted to greenlit his stuff because angels egg failed so bad, him and Suzuki work together again in 2004 with innocence

[@wonder_of_doom]

​@@Stevem Ahh gotcha always assumed he was just blacklisted

[@Stevem]

he did some work via a fake name during the period like boards and stuff, but yeah he was lookign for work in anime until patlabor

[@Meliae]

we are soooooooo back 🥚

[@Stevem]

lets gooooo

[@wiselogicliberate]

2025...we're so back. We're eating good. 🥚💧 I first heard about Angel's Egg because of the video about it by KZbinr, "Pseudiom." Watched it a few times on KZbin. It's really good with a well mixed speaker system. Though I'm tempted to attend that theatrical re-release. Going to pick up the soundtrack very soon cause it's going for a pretty good deal on Amazon. I can relate to nodding off a few times during the first showing, but that's my fault trying to watch it at like 2am. 😂

[@Stevem]

The soundtrack is killer

[@pendaco]

That subtle change from young to old Miyazaki was very fitting 👌 Luckily he never took his ideas to the grave but gave them to the rest of us.

[@Stevem]

haha i think it was an editing error but ya know what not a bad one

[@pendaco]

@@Stevem A happy little accident! 😄

[@bellateef]

3:46 I'm sorry what egg now? 😮

[@Stevem]

Angels egg

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

The "director = captain of the ship" approach ("theory" is the wrong word and should go and die), this auteur approach is not hard to understand. It is only convoluted and contradictory on the surface. Even when the artist defines the look of the picture, it is the director who chooses and approves the artist. The director is also the only to choose and approve the music composer. All those artistic communists, who argue that the team shares equal credit, do not understand it is the director who chooses the team, and can fire a team member over artistic disagreements. And yes, often enough the situation is different, like when the producer is the idea man, or when the writer is so high profile, he chooses the director. But I was explaining productions where the director somehow ended up with the power to decide who to hire and fire.

[@Stevem]

If you can hire or fire people, is really dependent on the industry, anime is not hollywood. Like in animation the task of finding animators can be shared by many people on the production, the animation director, the person at the production desk & the producer. After all it was Toshio Suzuki who assembled half this team not Oshii. A director can be a curator which is fine, but there's a lot of work that's outside their management including the music here. Oshii found the composer because they'd had contact from a cancelled project at pierrot and he didnt have much control over that he let them get on with it, everything else was pretty crazy. Here too Kobayashi was not following the director, Oshii was following Kobayashi because a director needs to rely on people more equipped and knowledgeable than them. Oshii also holds to a philosophy of only working 3 hours a day for pretty much anything he made after this point at IG.

[@NotOrdinaryInGames]

@@Stevem Yeah, none of that is wrong. I tried to concisely summarize the point of the "auteur theory" (theory is once again the wrong word). I am just tired of all kinds of people trying to downplay leadership in the creation of art, and demand a more "democratic" approach where each member has a say. Perhaps in the case of this movie partnership would be a better word than benevolent dictatorship.

[@Stevem]

​@@NotOrdinaryInGames depends on the project really, the team should decide what's best for the project in question. If a team doesnt respect the leader its going to go sour at some point. The point to be made here is this idea of auteur is a myth in itself especially in animation, and that a lot of people already leave very strong impacts on the project themselves,. I believe oshii has even said theres a real splintering to animation because each piece is kinda constructed in a corner alone by each artist.

[@milk_bath]

4:50 KFIV village bop.

[@Stevem]

Truuuu

[@jeremygregorio7472]

The problem with making something like this is that all the money and anime comes from merchandising and there's absolutely nothing here to merchandise. The loss of the home video market and the fact that all the streaming revenue gets hoovered up by the big companies means that a production studio could never get the funds together to do this.

[@Stevem]

the situation your talking about was the same back then, they did try and sell merch of angels egg and failed

[@GhostPurple69]

what about shenmue, maybe?

[@Stevem]

what about shenmue??? the anime that came out like a year ago or so?

[@CornishCreamtea07]

Auteurism in animation is certainly harder to find, due to how many different inputs are needed. The only one I would 100% call an Auteur, is Richard Williams with The Thief and the Cobbler. As he micromanaged every single frame of the film. And even that went unfinished.

[@Stevem]

Idk if the animators on the project would agree on that one, they had their qualms

[@camhcom]

i can tell this is a good vid but i cant finish because of all these dissolves. whats with having a dissolve on every edit my man, did you accidentally bump a hotkey when you went to encode or something

[@Stevem]

actually yes... the original version didnt have that i only noticed when it was already sponsor approved and going live cant fix it now

[@Mefrius]

15:55 - why people are liking him? Am i stupid or is this a Malivich's Black Square and "The Emperor's New Clothes" situation? I watched only stalker so far, but it was a real disappointment. And people are comparing Angel's Egg to Tarkovsky, which makes me feel... weird? Because i like Angel's Egg. Yeah there were some boring bits, like the beginning, but movie was great. In Stalker, Tarkovsky just framed beautiful nature for a million years and that's... In process of which he and his crew got problems with health, which is stupid. Like why even doing that in foreign country next to dangerous chemicals? Did he just wanted to run away from Russia to some foreign woman? Because he could film Stalker in Russia easily. I know i am overly angry, but i really like getting into the cinematography or animation production, and i just can't understand why so many people saying Tarkovsky is genius. Maybe i am crazy or maybe emperor is indeed naked.

[@Stevem]

Maybe watch more than one film. idk if stalker is the be all end all of his career he's done a fair few movies

[@Mefrius]

@@Stevem Maybe, but thanks for the answer! Your videos are awesome

[@RADIOSUlClDl0]

Tenshi no Tamago set an unrealistic standard for anime to me. After that, everything goes down.

[@Stevem]

well to be fair angels egg cant even keep up to its own standards

[@mariaanmo]

I think Angel's Egg is a perfect example of Miyazaki's quote in the video. "Some people say that because so much anime is being made these days, we should be more auteurist directors. However, that would only isolate us from other creators. Animation creators should turn their pure imagination into comprehensible ideas or take them to their graves." Angel's Egg flopped because it's incomprehensive. It's hard to connect with people when you can't communicate, specially in such a collaborative area that is film and animation. Tarkovsky works because its language is understandable. Angel's Egg created it's own language just to be able to speak to itself. One of the purposes of cinema is to be able to connect with people, communicate and (like it or not) to generate profit. If you generate profit, the movie industry survives. If the movie industry is not financially struggling, you might see more arthouse/niche movies (and not just movies that are made just to gain money). So I think that yeah, it's complately understandable why Angel's Egg flopped. It's a beautiful movie and an aesthetic experience, but what's the purpose?

[@mariaanmo]

And yeah I had to watch the movie without sound because it was sooooo louuudd!!

[@Stevem]

@@mariaanmo well the issue here is that even when the movie industry doing good or bad is irrelevant to the art house, what's destroyed them is the consolidation of the markets, its incredible hard to show any of that stuff anywhere, that's not indie itself same for online platforms which are so controlled by big corps it's not in their interest. Even things not art house struggle to find a platform for themselves.

[@HamburgExpress]

Angels Egg is such a great film. It really conveys the dark nature of Christian Mythology and adapts one of the most well known historical stories in such a great way. With art, if you have to explain what it means. Then the artwork kind of fails it's intended purpose. There are a lot of interpretations. But let's just say there is a main reason why Angel's Egg was referenced in Dark Souls 3. With the two, having similar messages.

[@Stevem]

It doesn't surprise souls would they're very in line with each other

[@flavorgod]

Why did they want to get rid of Lupin?

[@Stevem]

byproduct of the 70s i guess they didnt see a fresh direction for it

[@nocando17]

The weebs will attack this video…

[@Stevem]

I've yet to see that

[@ohw5306]

❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@Stevem]

thank yoU!

[@Spacefrisian]

Alot of Anime wouldnt be made today, like Heavy Metal L-Gaim, but thats because it has full on nudity in it (and to a lesser extend with 80s Gundam)

[@Stevem]

That's a basic reason though like if you're just on Netflix you can do that but most producer would like to optimize avenues of course there's always the chance they are censored until home release to with that, the nudity can be worked around

[@Spacefrisian]

@@Stevem The Heavy Metal L-Gaim is on KZbin.

[@Stevem]

​@@SpacefrisianI'm assuming pirate rip

[@Spacefrisian]

@@Stevem That i dont know, its been on youtube for 2 years.

[@Stevem]

yeah its a pirate rip

[@MatteoCaronnaTerreIllustrate]

I like your videos a lot and I think that your research on the history of the production of these works is stellar, but at the same time I feel like they're kind of weak when you touch on theoretical stuff. For example, everytime you bring up the idea of "auteurism" it feels less like you are engaging with actual film theory and more like you're just responding to what the average anime fan says on Twitter and other platforms. In this case the argument you make is kind of confusing because your definition doesn't give enough context to understand in what terms auteurism was actually discussed by those that theorised it. The section of the video is made even less clear by the quotes you use: at first it looks like you're saying that an anime director can't be an auteur because anime is a collaborative effort, and that this is true especially if we're talking about directors who need to rely on others a lot, so you bring up Oshii is saying that "auteurism was just a fantasy", but then you insert Miyazaki saying that Oshii "shouldn't become an auteur", thus implying that an anime director CAN become an auteur. I'm not arguing in favor or against "auteurism" as a framework, I'm just saying that your argument is not effective nor that clear and that it should be made by referencing actual essays and papers on the subject instead of just using interviews and a definition thought on the spot by you. Same problem with your definition of "punctum". "Studium" and "punctum" are terms that Roland Barthes uses to talk about the ontology of photography. Specifically, the "punctum" is the intimate connection between the spectator and the object of a photograph conjured up by a specific detail. It's something that is personal and that has to do with how a photograph can capture reality by transforming a subject into an object. To explain this Barthes uses a picture of his dead mother that to him it feels like it captures her essence, her soul. It's something that only he can see because it's related to his memory. It is also evoked by a specific detail and he can't explain why this happens only with that detail and with that specific picture of his mother. That's why "punctum" is both subjective and irrational. Tenshi no tamago can't have a "punctum" because it shows to us things that have never been real. The "punctum" is all about the ability of a photograph of pointing us to the past, to something that was there in front of the camera and that was captured by it. Of course this cannot be applied to animation where everything appears to us as made up. I also don't get the use of "nepotism" to describe Suzuki and Oshii's relationship since betting on a director is part of the job for a producer and, as far as I know, the two are not related. Beside these points, really good work.

[@Stevem]

So let me clear some of this up, I've talked at length in other videos about auteurism in anime and my position. I might be doing too much light work here as opposed to restating my point, I don't believe in auteurism via anime, the point of using Miyazakis was more to give perspective into someone who is considered an auteur, but himself rejects the framework. Since this is part of the series, I will probably talk more about this as I go along. Auteur was something that was discussed at length in the discussion of Angel's Egg in the Japanese scene, especially in the magazines that Suzuki ran. I'm not responding to Twitter as much as I'm commenting on the general discourse at the time. Although ultimately here it is a stepping stone to dismiss the long held rumor's about Oshii being a Christian and how that has become lore people used to frame this movie and have for 20 years now. I could have been clearer, I was on a deadline and thought to make a video talking about everyone's contribution and at the end saying things like this movie wouldn't be made without x's involvement. I assumed that would make it clear where I stood on the debate. On the second point about punctum, I don't agree that the theory can only apply to one medium, if that were the case then we couldn't have auteur debates in something that isn't a live action film. When Barthes defines punctum, he does not say that it is exclusive to photography, no lens is. He defines it and then says: "a photograph's punctum is that accident which pricks me." He also uses many photographs to talk about it, not just those of people who are directly related to him, the first image he used was of soldiers and nuns, for example. "A la greuze" is how Barthes describes one of these photographs, he uses a term of realist painting, that it captured him something that spoke to him. That pierced him, compared to the ones that didn't, which were just "scenes". He also says. "The photographs I liked were constructed in the manner of a classical sonata." This implies that we are talking about artistic preference rather than something that is real. I don't think photographs really capture reality, they are fictional in the same way as cartoons. Something Barthes also mentions is that photographs are tormented by the ghosts of paintings, because they take elements and the language of painting. Even saying nothing however "realistic" will distinguish a photo from a painting. They are staged often or benefit from the framing of the photographer to capture what they are trying to convey. ln the same section of Camera Lucida, Barthes also goes onto talk about how photographs create myths and how that can make them dangerous & that stadium is to recognize that, to study it. Where it seems punctum is to irrationally bruised and punctured by said image. Nepotism is not strictly defined by blood relationship, it is giving positions to people who are also your friends. Oshii once called Suzuki basically the only person he would call a friend. Even before they worked together, Beautiful Dreamer got more coverage in Animage under Suzuki than any other anime of that year (like a lot more). Something Suzuki even apologized for because it was favoritism. So this is nepotism, without Suzuki's special interest in Oshii, he would not have gotten the opportunity to pitch, nor the help of Studio Ghibli for Angel's Egg. That's the industry, but that's why Oshii can hardly get a project off the ground now compared to 1985.

[@MatteoCaronnaTerreIllustrate]

@@Stevem On the issue of auteurism: I've seen many of your videos and I felt the same issue as here. Your definition of "auteurism" is never that much clear and that makes it hard to assess your argument. Don't get me wrong, your position is very clear: you don't believe in auteurism in anime. It's the methodology and the reasoning you use to support this position that aren't clear. And again, I'm not in favor or against auteurism, I'm trying to understand the debate as a whole. In the video you say: "The movie is often attributed to Oshii's auteurism". Okay, by who? When? In what terms? The "who" and "when" can kinda be inferred because you use the "the fantasy of auteur was conjured up by Suzuki" quote, but it's not clear how this idea of auteurism was understood and discussed. You also say "Oshii plays the role in the story, themes and boarding" and "he has clear motives similar to a dog marking a telephone pole". Assuming this is true, one could argue: "doesn't this make him an auteur?". Since you don't make clear what those people in the 80s that used auteurism meant and how those french critics from the 40s defined auteurism, there's a lot of space to interpret the concept thus making it easy to poke hole in your argument. Again, I'm not saying that I think that Oshii's an auteur, on my own I may agree with the idea that he is not, but here I'm only talking about the script of your video. The Oshii's and Miyazaki's quotes on auteurism are also hard to take at face value, they need to be problematized and discussed. First of all: are they talking about an attitude on the production side of these movies or on the reception side? Are they talking about how a director should do his/her work or about how a viewer/critic should interpret it? Because it feels like Oshii and Miyazaki are talking about different things here. Oshii talks about a "fantasy of the auteur" and "Suzuki", which makes me think that he is referring to how his work was perceived by the audience because of Animage and the marketing. On the other hand, Miyazaki says "Oshii shouldn't be an auteur", so he is not talking about how Oshii's movies are understood by the audience or the critics but about how he works on those movies. And because of how you define "auteurism" one could also argue: "Ok, but isn't Miyazaki an auteur? He not only makes up the story, the themes and the storyboards, but he also creates hundreds of imageboards to define the aesthetic of his movies. Moreover, he works on the animation together with the sakuga kantoku. So, isn't there a contradiction in what he says and what he does? And thus, what value is there in what he says?". On the punctum: It's true that a lens created for a specific medium can sometimes be transferred to another, but this doesn't mean that it's something that always works. In this case, if we take the "punctum" away from the photography-medium it loses all of its specificity. It wouldn't also make sense when we think that Camera Lucida is a book about the ontology of photography: he is trying to define what makes photography a unique medium and in doing so he creates the idea of the studium and punctum. The fact that he uses other media to describe a photograph doesn't mean that he thinks that a photograph and a painting work in the exact same way, it would be a strange implication in a book like this one. About the "reality" of a photograph, you say it yourself: "a punctum is that ACCIDENT which picks me". "Accident" is a word that he uses for a very specific reason. Yes, a photograph can be staged, but when I said "a photograph captures reality" I didn't mean that a photograph captures the (historical/social/etc...) truth, I meant that it captures what's in front of it. It's exactly what Barthes thought, in fact in a previous text he says: "In the photograph the relationship of signified to signifiers is not one of ‘transformation’ but of ‘recording’. The scene is there, captured mechanically, not humanly." This is the basic assumption that connotates everything Barthes says in the Camera Lucida. Without it, the rest doesn't make sense. In fact, that's why he uses the word "ACCIDENT": since a camera records what's in front of it, it can even capture something unexpected that happened to be there, unlike a painting where everything that's on the the canvas was put there by the artist. So the Punctum is something that wasn't put there deliberately, it's something that is there "by chance". And it is also something that "is there in the photograph" and "was there in front of the camera". "the presence of the thing (at a certain past moment) is never metaphoric; and in the case of animated beings, their life as well. [...] Photography’s inimitable feature (its noeme) is that someone has seen the referent in flesh and blood" On the issue of nepotism: Yes, okay, but as far as we know they became friends and Animage covered Oshii a lot because Suzuki was interested in Oshii's ideas and works. It was part of Suzuki's job as an editor and as a producer to find interesting people to promote and bet on. He did the same with Miyazaki and in general this is how the industry works. I get why you use the term, but it feels strange to call this stuff "nepotism".

[@Stevem]

Auteurism and Oshii is quite broad in its response, I guess in that moment I'm not talking to a specific group more a sentiment. It could be anime academia, the media rounds for angel's egg and other creator talks. Or even the majority of people who have talked about this Angel's egg as some kind of response to "Oshii's loss of faith". I think I said "he plays A role" or it should he plays a role, as in one member of the team not "THE" role. As the only member of the team. When he says he's marking things like a dog he's talking branding and calling cards as in his works retain certain images or motifs here and there. So more so this is ego than him making artistic statements. So maybe I'm out of the loop but I don’t know who else the people of Japan in the 80s would be looking at in terms of auterism but the 40s French new wave, is there a second generation of auterism concepts I'm unaware of ? Suzuki was a fan of the French new wave which I have mentioned prior but maybe again I need to here. Oshii mentions he couldn’t have been a director without the fantasy so he's talking about both & miyazaki is talking about both too. "Ok, but isn't Miyazaki an auteur? He not only makes up the story, the themes and the storyboards, but he also creates hundreds of imageboards to define the aesthetic of his movies. Moreover, he works on the animation together with the sakuga kantoku." Well this would be a misinterpretation of the approach that makes his anime, miyazaki can only make the movies that are pitched and get a greenlight which means there's a sense of compromise there at the beginning for what stories he's allowed to adapt (commercially viable ones). During the production miyazaki’s duties mainly involve storyboarding which then comes the second layer of compromise which is that they often go way too long and aren’t feasible to create in there first form so both producers and miyazaki have to adjust. Then the next layer of compromise is the time and resources change the production, after that its that miyazaki very rarely does key animation himself only via corrections and he himself doesn’t do the layouts. Thus the production is defined by the layout artist and key animators interpretations of the boards. Miyazaki himself often describes that the process is in itself one of compromise by the nature of being a massive commercial picture with 400 people working on it. He believes in making works that are broad and don’t inherently reflect his real attitude, once he was quoted as saying he was horrified porco rosso did so well because he saw it reflecting something more personal. So of Oshii he believes that he shouldn’t make a work like angels egg because it does not reflect his philosophy of staying within broad audience work. If I wasn’t clear enough on things in the video the best I can do, is maybe add some clarification sequence in the final compilation video. And try to be clearer going forward. On punctum. The accident to me seems to be him saying it hit him by chance, not that the photograph itself is by chance since most photography is not by chance in any way. Even in this barthes talks about staged photograph from 1926 by James Van der Zee of a family and their mammy. Mentioning That punctum has no set good taste or morality. Now he does mention something about if an element isnt punctum it is doubtless because it was staged but there's no way he can prove what is or not in photography going back to his statement about the camera lying. Angel's Egg is also captured on a camera for example. Now film and photography differ yes of course but I still see value in these ideas beyond strict photography I don’t think they're as exclusive as it seems, to study media and to be pierced by said media in a way that goes beyond logic seem fairly universal. I also think this idea of the camera reproducing a moment mechanically is incorrect too, there's so many levels of distortion which come with that, although in general im more on the side of Jean Ballard. With that discussion agree to disagree. So as an editor there were set guidelines in about how much one work should be covered which were broken and an editor for a magazine that covers the whole industry has different things they must account for than an anime producer. Say for example pissing off other film companies by giving one movie in particular special treatment. I don't know why you think it's weird to use the word nepotism. This part of the video was just about why angels egg couldn’t be made today and that it involved knowing the right people and being in the right circles, I don’t really see this as me making much of a value judgement.