Angel Talk || s2e11 "Redefinition"

get full reactions & edited versions early on patreon: / alleybox
program: premiere pro
check me out ↷
▫ instagram: @alley.box
▫ tik tok: @alley.box
↪ if you would like to send me something it is: PO Box # 2052, Jupiter, FL, 33468
see my unboxings in this playlist: • Unboxing Videos
hope you enjoy :)
▲ Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use.

[@jaycievictory8461]

"it's a little cheesy". Macaroni cheese wishes it could aspire to this level

[@spamfilter32]

You are not eating the correct Macaroni. Got to get away from those Kraft box's and make it real.

[@jaycievictory8461]

@@spamfilter32 I've never eaten Kraft macaroni in my life 😁

[@spamfilter32]

@@jaycievictory8461 Well, that is good. But a well made Mac-n-Cheese bake is one of the best dishes one can readily make at home.

[@jaycievictory8461]

"That's the motor oil, Dru." Beautiful little Chekhov's gun moment just before the incendiary pay-off. *Chef's kiss*

[@alleybox]

yesss i forget if i mention it, but i LOVEEEE this detail

[@zemoxian]

That and the whole “the flames dance and lick like cats,” thing.

[@marcushead9985]

I like how they foreshadowed the end of the last episode with the very first episode of this scene. "Take 'em all." Also, I think "Not Angel, not Angelus, what was that?" is the kind of show lampshading the simplicity of the early Buffy episodes. Angel is a good person who feels guilt for things he didn't even do, because he remembers doing them. Angelus is the monster who will do any cruelty or act of evil up to and include destroying the world, because he thinks it's fun. "That", to use Darla's term, is what happens when someone of Angel's capabilities discovers he's also capable of a not insignificant amount of Angelus's cruelty. After all, humans have souls and do monstrous things. What makes Angel any different?

[@Itcouldbebunnies]

Drusilla: "I see such pretty fire...and pain. So much suffering. The flames are lovely. They dance, and the fire licks like a cat. And the screams, oh, it's like star music." Me: Not so much fun when you're the one who's burning, now is it?

[@Talisguy]

"You'll get another job, just like that!" Not sure how much of this comment is Virginia trying to cheer Wesley up and how much is her being very rich and sheltered. It's probably a mix of both. I like it.

[@MercenaryX84]

Angel's voice over is so dramatic. "I've got the moves", cue the dance scene from She. Angel takes the term burning bridges to a whole nother level and completes an Ex-Wife Effigy, burning everything Darla related including Darla and Drusilla.

[@arthurspils2565]

"That wasn't Angel..... It wasn't Angelus either................ Who was that?" - these lines, combined with what Angel's just done and the look on his face (great acting David), are just the perfect mood they're trying to create with Dark Angel, and I LOVE it.

[@Fionor01]

We already learned Angel(us) love monologuing in B:tVS episode Passion. It's just his thing before he does something crazy...

[@Buffy8Fan]

I see comments saying they don't like the V.O. But I see that as the point, as he is in his own head with no one else around him. This is where he was heading ever since Darla returned at the end of last season, in-universe and real world writing-wise.

[@alleybox]

it is pretty cheesy and extra, but the voiceovers are what sell the episode and make this an Angel episode imo haha. Angel is dramatic, and his decent into evil/away from his friends, shall also be dramatic

[@thestoicsoliloquies4041]

@@alleybox I'm fairly certain descent is spelled with an s in it. Descent- downward spiral Decent- nice, pleasant

[@darthekul1]

I know I'm late but it definitely gives me noir vibes , and kinda feels like batman year one or watchman with a journal instead of a voice over (in the movies they did VO tho

[@freshPrincess626]

@@alleyboxAlso they were necessary because Angel never SPEAKS OUT LOUD in this episode.

[@jaycievictory8461]

"He's alone all the time." Yeah, leaving Angel alone is not really a good idea right now. He needs his gang to scold and annoy him. Refuse to be budged.

[@robinschicha4712]

He is never alone. 😈 is always there. Waiting to break free…

[@shadowjewel]

I think Angel torching them and not killing them is Angel's sadism coming through, as it did when he locked Dru and Darla in the room with the lawyers. That sadism is a part of Angel and always has been since he was human, it's that darkness that made Angelus so horrifying - the demon is shaped by the human that came before. Guilt and love pushed Angel into being a good person, but it's something he's had to work for.

[@Mandinobear]

😂😂 cordelia in pain: "alley.." Alley: .. its about me?! 😂😂😂😂 made me laugh out loud 😂

[@zemoxian]

Drusilla talking about the fire before it happened makes me think. What if everything she says is actually meaningful. They should vamp a transcriber to take down everything she says and index it. There’s no telling when whatever Drusilla says will become useful. I’m starting to think all the nonsense she says is actually important but it’s never interpreted correctly. Decades later you find yourself hanging upside down from a hook and you realize Dru described your current situation.

[@jb888888888]

Apparently there was a deleted scene where Cordelia is complaining about being fired to Dennis, who just turns on the TV.

[@thescarletteve]

That is amazing 😝

[@serenity4eva89]

"... can't a woman wreak a little havoc without there being a man involved?" - Darla 🖤

[@tnx301]

Watched Desperate Housewives years ago when it came out, good show - you won't be disappointed. Some other suggestions of various genres: Fargo, Weeds, Banshee, Preacher, Person of Interest, Heroes, Eureka & Warehouse 13, Dark Angel, Being Human (UK / US both), Twin Peaks

[@ciaramclaughlin5677]

Currently smiling at my phone ever since the notification came up that you’ve released a new video. I love what you do it always brightens my day! I’m also looking forward to your reactions to this storyline, it’s one of my favourites :)

[@alleybox]

thank you so much for watching!! :D love making these videos

[@danielbutler8103]

23:30 Yes Vampires heal faster then normal humans, It can still take awhile like Spike in Buffy season 2.

[@ibgvox]

29:24: In a Mutant Enemy show (Buffy, Angel and Firefly shared the same building, next to Buffy sets, Buffy and Firefly upstairs, Angel downstairs) normally someone pitched an idea (normally Joss at Buffy, maybe Greenwalt, Minear and Joss at Angel), then the whole team (except the writer writing the previous episode) break the story into 4 acts, scene by scene, with everyone pitching ideas. Then the credited writer (normally it was a rotational thing except if someone wanted an episode because it was funny (Espenson) or drama/romance (Noxon)) wrote an outline (normally in one day) with the showrunner (Joss and Greenwalt, then Joss and Marti at Buffy; Joss and Greenwalt at Angel) giving notes to it and then the writer went home and wrote the dialogue. And, finally, the showrunner did the final pass or a rewrite. Also there was many things uncredited: like Noxon acting as a consultant (she was Joss's consiglere almost since day one, the fastest promoted writer I've seen: from staff writer to Number 2 (Buffy S4) in 2 years) or doing rewrites just the same day she left for her wedding!)

[@darksheep]

29:23 most shows have a writers room with all the writers and they plan the whole season first, then they breakdown a few episodes ahead and few writers write episodes at the same time so they're probably aware of what the other writers are doing. then there's also the showrunner who oversees everything, gives notes, and often does uncredited rewrites.

[@ibgvox]

A bit different in a Mutant Enemy show (Buffy, Angel and Firefly writer's room were at the same building, next to Buffy sets, Buffy and Firefly upstairs, Angel downstairs). Normally Joss and his lieutenants (Greenwalt, Minear and Noxon) mapped out the season. Joss usually gave them the main plot things that need to happen (like "in ep 16 xxxx dies"). Then there was the episode making: Joss or another writer pitched an idea, then the whole team (minus the one who was writing the previous one) break the story into 4 acts, scene by scene, then the credited writer (rotational according to rank: Joss, Marti, Fury etc) wrote the outline, the showrunner (Joss and Marti at Buffy, Joss and Greenwalt, and later on, Minear, at Angel, Joss and Minear at Firefly) gave notes, then the writer wrote the dialogue and more notes or a rewrite by Joss. At Angel, however, things were a bit more of a different voices than Buffy because Joss spent less time there than at Buffy. So there is many stuff done by Greenwalt and Minear but thing is the writers never had full autonomy and wrote the eps with an outline with every scene planned.

[@killianlpc]

I think Redefinition was a great follow up to preceding two episodes. Angel is now much more 'badass' with Angelus type undertones. A great scene when he burns Drusilla and Darla at the end. Painfully funny with Cordy, Gunn and Wes being drunk singing We Are The Champions in Lorne's club.

[@ryangaffneysguitarphilosop732]

My own theory is that David Borenaz was busy filming 'Valentine" and that's why he's barely in this episode, and he's mostly alone in the next few. When interacting with others, you just see his stunt double. That's why she didn't recognize his vamp face.

[@jaycievictory8461]

Yes, vampires have elite healing powers. Seemingly even a little more than the slayer. Short of (a lot of) fire, decapitation, or a stake through the heart (has to be wooden) they can heal from anything. But the worse the injury, the more downtime they need. Think of Spike being buried under a church and being in a wheelchair for several weeks.

[@spacenerdtrue]

As far as Drusilla's predictions, I'm honestly not sure you've caught on at this point, but at this point in the show they've made it clear: Drusilla gets visions the same way Cordelia does. So yes, she's crazy, but the times where she legitimately predicts things are for that reason. It's a matter of filtering out which things she's saying are just crazy Dru and which are legitimate predictions in hindsight.

[@blacktronlego]

4:18 'Virginia Bryce', it's nice to see her again, it seems she and Wesley are still together. The demon Karaoke bar is called 'Caritas'. I loved their drunk singing! This is a third personality, he's not Angel, he's not Angelus. He's 'Dark Angel' obsessed with bringing down Wolfram & Hart. 24:00 It took a lirtle while but Spike recovered from having a pipe organ dropped on him, so they can and do heal faster then humans.

[@lawrencewestby9229]

I didn't mind the VO, the only lines he has in the episode, it adds some exposition to Angel's redefinition of his mission and himself. His mission from helping the helpless to a war against Wolfram & Hart. Himself from someone seeking redemption to one capable of fighting W&H at their level.

[@SashaRicky]

I've heard people accuse Buffy of being more cheesy than Angel and it absolutely kills me. 🤣

[@orianadunn4478]

Alley i TRULY enjoy every single one of your videos. It makes my day to see when youve posted

[@catnox3278]

If you enjoyed Lindsey in this episode, you'll almost certainly like the same actor in Leverage. That stare he gave the passerby, for 5 seconds i just believed I was watching Leverage.

[@Talisguy]

The episode could really do without the voiceover, but there is something hilarious about the fact that Angel has done so much to alienate everyone that he has nobody to talk to. And it raises the amusing possibility that his internal monologue is always narrating his life like this, in every episode, but we just don't usually hear it. Hey, the fake T'ish Magev did call him out for his need to be dramatic at all times. He intentionally created his brooding Batman persona. It would fit...

[@caitlin329]

I like it as a callback to Angelus and Passion

[@mattp.3949]

Also to note both Lindsey and Lilah are promoted to "co-vice presidents of Special Projects" of Wolfram & Hart. The Senior Partners will be watching you..... from their home office in Hell.

[@Jcewazhere]

So in ten years or so when you've finished Angel and Buffy what's next? The thing most people head to next is Firefly and/or Dollhouse, and for good reason as they're both great Whedon shows, but might I suggest Fringe instead? It's a very cool show that doesn't get enough attention.

[@michaelstanley5575]

Personally, while Firefly is great, Grimm is pretty good too.

[@jennyk885]

@@michaelstanley5575 I second Grimm . David Greenwalt's a writer on that.

[@Jcewazhere]

@@jennyk885 Grimm is cool. It's basically Buffy with a male lead though. I guess since Alley did Supernatural then Buffy it'd make sense to keep with the fantasy theme. However Fringe has some neat psychology stuff to it which she might dig.

[@jaycievictory8461]

I think Angel knew the fire hydrant was there. I think setting them on fire is both a sign of the very dark place his psyche is at (including losing his mind to a degree after Darla and Wolfram and Hart messing with it so much) and trying to psych himself up to kill Darla. As he said in this episode, despite his fury, he can't do it yet

[@testytest69420]

Also he is getting a little Angelus-y, and we all know Angelus likes to draw out the kill.

[@jimmilligan5088]

He said himself he’s not ready to get up close for the kill. That’s why he lit them on fire. He torched them but after that he couldn’t finish them off a) b/c it was all he could do to damage them and b) he can’t touch a vampire on fire, as it’s bad for vampires

[@TheNoybusiness]

Well, I thought the "redefinition" applied mostly to the gang redefining themselves without Angel. And it fits with "Reunion" (and later "Reprise"). Yes, vampires heal. Spike only still has that scar because Xinrong was using a dragon-blessed sword. Buffy switched channels for Season 6.

[@tsstevensts]

Once Upon a Time? Emma/Hook is basically Buffy/Spike Breaking Bad? Game of Thrones? Underbelly? 24? How I Met Your Mother? Lois & Clark?

[@KingdomLex]

If you're looking for long shows to watch I just started a Smallville rewatch and that show is a wild ride and has 10 seasons 😅 Desperate housewives is also good! Someone from Buffy pops up too, won't spoil who lol

[@RB-vo4gi]

I don’t really understand why Buffy would have popped up on a “Things to watch after you watch PLL” type search. The shows aren’t even in the same stratosphere, unless it’s just referring to long-running tv shows. They both do have 7 seasons.

[@jb888888888]

Strong female lead? (I've never watched PLL so I really don't know.)

[@rfresa]

Yes, vampires can heal themselves, but they need blood to do it. I also think that drinking blood makes them stronger, and the only reason Darla and Drusilla survived the fire in this episode was because of their recent massacre.

[@JohnDoe-ls2zu]

This Angel episode is "Batman: The Dark Knight" 7 years before that movie came out. This is "Dark Angel".

[@BlackDerek]

IZombie is another good choice.

[@davewolf6256]

Alley coined the word at 27:29 Vampiresona (n) the face morph a vampire adopts to bite their human :)

[@snubblebunny]

Love your vids! Did you realise Maya in PLL is Kendra from buffy? And alsooooo film Despies! We fricken love that show it’s like the original PLL

[@cherylpeterson6634]

I wondered if you have recognized all the Buffy/Angel actors who appeared on Supernatural. Like, Darla, Harmony, and Tara for example.

[@MrSupertallblackman]

A lot of people don't like the voiceover I've never really mined it that much...I don't really prefer Lindsey over Lilah or vice versa...don't have much to say about this episode its kind of middle of the road. Oh oh as far as vampires healing goes it seems that fire takes a bit longer to heal given how long Spike was injured...yeah that was something...I got this episode is just ok. Edit: Alley Angel is always a demon and vampire regardless of a having a soul.

[@danielbutler8103]

26:15 They switch at Buffy season 6

[@xoxoxANGExoxox]

Long shows a person could get into... ever watched Prison Break, Bones, Grimm or The Mentalist?

[@jaycievictory8461]

Ian/Passion of the Nerd totally ruined the training montage for me 😅

[@WillsonT011]

I literally forgot about him and his analysis because he takes forever to release videos and he tends to overanalyze things that are just right there in front of you

[@jaycievictory8461]

@@WillsonT011 Respectfully, I'm gonna have to really disagree with him only analysing what's obvious. Not sure when you stopped watching him but the depths he pulls out in his episode analyses is just wonderful. I'd say pretty much every video he says something I've either not heard or not thought if before. Or adds a real richness to a thought I'd had.

[@razycrandomgirl]

@@WillsonT011 he does take forever tho

[@kevinbre7563]

If you like Christian Kane (Lindsey), you and your bf check out Leverage. It has 5 seasons and is really good 👍

[@razycrandomgirl]

I 2nd thjs. LEVERAGE is so wholesome

[@ernesthakey3396]

I liked The Librarians as well; though it isn't quite as good, it is fun.

[@9ansean]

9:30 It took me several tries before I could tell if it was Gunn or Alley who say "WHAT!?" at this point. Because it wasn't subtitled. LOL 10:03-7 HAHAHAHA I just know that was going to happen.

[@davidgorman994]

I don't think this as good as the previous episode but it's decent. I never really bought that Dru read her vision wrong around the flames. Too simple. Her visions were on point during Buffy. Can't get over Dru in the turtleneck sweater though.

[@Nuchallengr]

Did you notice the vision dru had of the dancing flames... guess she wasn't really paying attention to her own precog visions...

[@godmagnus]

Yeah, I don't think Darla realizes he probably can still hear.

[@TigerNightmare]

Season one started with voice over in the pilot. I can't remember if it happened again between then and now, but it was clearly something they didn't think worked very well, and this little detour "Dark Angel" arc was like, "Hey, maybe we should try that again?" In this episode, it was more of the empty words variety of voice over and not something gave you information, like with Veronica Mars, Adaptation, or Sin City, but Angel explaining his feelings that we already know about. Which is bad writing that's in too many anime to count.

[@lurker1316]

On the topic of long-running shows, I'll point out: The Sailor Moon 90's anime has 200 episodes. (Watch the Viz English dub though. The DiC dub the U.S. got in the 90's is meme-worthy, but doesn't do the show justice.) Dragon Ball has 153, Dragon Ball Z has 291, and Dragon Ball Super has 131. So that's a combined 575 episodes, plus more if you get into the multiverse of movies, specials, and Dragon Ball GT. I wouldn't say either Sailor Moon or Dragon Ball is on the level of something like the Buffyverse, though they're not without their merits, but they're enjoyable shows to pass the time. 10:03 - 😂😂🤣🤣

[@DivaQuinzel]

My baby Dru did not deserve that 💔

[@danielsalazar112]

You Crack me up, love it when dru had her vision and said she saw alley, and you said "you saw me?? " this dark angel who is not angelus is pretty bad ass!! Yes pretty little liars was awesome. Mona is my favorite character. If you are interested in a long show I don't know how you would feel about watching superhero shows. Watching the arrowverse shows. Arrow, flash, legends of tomorrow, supergirl and a couple of other shows. You have to go in a certain order. Hopefully you check it out

[@tehcoolemu]

Anyone else get big Oliver Queen (Green Arrow) vibes from Angel's voiceovers in this episode?

[@iwannawatchDavid]

Anyone have the link for the discord channel? I've been through a ton of Alley's patreon page, done searches, looked at KZbin and can't find it anywhere!

[@SyliAiChan]

Idk if you've seen it already but I recommend Gilmore Girls :) I love it

[@paulinerobertson6836]

Gilmore Girls is my 2nd fav show to Buffy so I concur :)

[@notyouraveragebear9326]

Okay but what’s the status on y’all binging Scandal?! I remember you saying you weren’t that into it or something but y’all have to give that a shot. The 1st 4 to 5 seasons are SUPERB!!!!!! Puh-Leeeeaaaaasssseee!!!!!!

[@HopelessHermit]

Angrily throwing cigarettes... My show

[@lilyb0red]

hey, alley, id love to see you react to the new Pretty Little Liars: Original Sin. Its a bit more horror like so im not sure if youre into that or if it would be too difficult to put up on youtube, but, in any case, im just letting you know id definitely watch lol

[@caitlin329]

Have you seen Mike's Mic's PLL breakdowns by now? lol

[@alleybox]

I NEED TO!

[@caitlin329]

Omg get on that right now 😂 He's onto Glee now too

[@kennethgriffin41]

You guys can try Smallville.

[@TheEndKing]

Suggesting Smallville is an act of sadism.

[@piggyintheshadows]

A show I would recommend to people, but at the pace the Buffyverse goes it would take five years to get through. Not a knock on Alley, I'm well aware she's very busy with school. It would just be a very big commitment for someone with not a lot of time.

[@godmagnus]

We need a "please!" counter.

[@serinas4465]

I don't think you can be off topic on your own channel 😁 especially not if you are talking about how TV shows work while reacting to TV shows. Feels very on topic for me

[@jb888888888]

Lemme help you out: begin at 0:00. You're welcome.

[@elijahmiddleton2877]

Alley meet ArchAngel Archangel meet Alley

[@sjbenson5618]

Is everything ok? I havent seen you for awhile in here, Welcome back :) and your boyfriend is so hot and kind giving you the best birthday present of buffy

[@diamondsmiles6882]

Why No Buffy?? Pleeassse! I didn’t watch Angel! Buffy is the BEST!!

[@Nuchallengr]

Try watching fringe or lost

[@KS-xk2so]

aaaand now comes perhaps the worst set of 3 episodes in the history of Angel lol

[@trufamilybromontqc]

i just watched Pll the original series while it was on i have the dvds but i did not get into the new series about PLL i wonder if its good but yeah its been a while since ive watch Pll. desperate housewives i have it on dvd as well so so funny and you will get into it :P :) if you haven't seen Dexter i really recommend it even if you don't want to react to it but just watch it on you're own time, you would get hooked