Anglicanism & Private Judgement - A Discussion with River Devereux & Jonah Saller

[@christianf5131]

The conversation at 50:00 is something else

[@ericmayhew5494]

God bless to my Anglican bros

[@traditionallenses]

Entertaining video

[@EricBryant]

01:03:50 Uh oh Rev. River just pulled out Immanuel Kant and the "Thing-in-Itself". Pastor River going for blood here! 😅 Where my popcorn at. Pause for Intermission.

[@lcohn1]

The answer to Rev. River's question at 57:20 about why there hasn't been an Ecumenical Council in over 1,000 years is simply that there hasn't been as dire a need for one as there was in the first thousand years of the Church when Christology and the essentials of the Faith were being clarified. Their purpose was simply to act as a foundation for the Church to work with for the rest of its history. There isn't a principle that says the Church must have an Ecumenical Council every 300 years or however long, they were simply meetings that happened to take place when it was necessary to eliminate teachings that undermined the Faith entirely. Also, enjoyed this discussion, very productive.

[@CaseyCovenant]

Also there is a view that a Christian emperor must call a council. In my opinion a council on the 6 days of creation and one on the gifts of the Holy Spirit needs to be convened.

[@KnightFel]

@@Psalm144.1nah

[@gregw8976]

Jonah lost me when he stated that it is incumbent that Christians should be historians to discern their faith.” Not realistic or practicable for vast majority of believers, who can hardly find the time to even read there bible.

[@merecatholicity]

I don't think they need to be historians in any official academic sense. However, I do believe that all Christians should understand where their faith came from, and that requires some level of historical inquiry.

[@merecatholicity]

@@StevenSmith-1863 If we are speaking of the illiterate, this is even more reason to give the Church a teaching authority to enlighten them.

[@CaseyCovenant]

#1 What are the names of the specific articles written by Rev. River Devereux against the 7th Ecumenical Council (Nicaea 2)? #2 Can he please publish a book (even if it's not long) on the 7th Ecumenical Council (Nicaea 2)?

[@newkingdommedia9434]

#1 Reformation Anglicanism and Nicaea II. Then 'To Reject a Council: An Essay on Scripture, the Church, and the Believer.' Then 'To Follow One's Conscience: A Defence of True Protestantism." #2 I've got to finish my dissertation and a book I'm writing first but then maybe

[@CaseyCovenant]

@newkingdommedia9434 Thank you brother. What is your dissertation thesis on???

[@newkingdommedia9434]

@@CaseyCovenant No problem! It's on how and why a Protestant who affirms sola scriptura can trust and believe with certainty in the canonicity of 2 Peter.

[@Willwhite5809]

So basically, this comes down to: is it scriptural or not? Do the teachings of the 7th "ecumenical" council conflict with scripture?

[@merecatholicity]

The other difference is that I would argue its reception in the West and East confirms its Scriptural basis given the authority I assign to the Church.

[@Willwhite5809]

@@merecatholicity Could you be convinced it isn’t scriptural based on arguments from scripture?

[@merecatholicity]

@@Willwhite5809 Perhaps. But it would have to be an extremely strong case-as strong and clear as, say, Christ's resurrection from the dead.

[@georgeluke6382]

2:01:23 on Nicea II

[@Weavileiscool]

W Anglican moment

[@lololololol8677]

You had a video where you argued Bishops and Presbyters are the same. How come now your Anglican?

[@michaelwilson3133]

I think this is an important question, with a low view of the historic episcopate why would you be Anglican?

[@TheOtherPaul]

Multiple, actually; on 1st Clement's ecclesiology and on the structure of the early Roman church, on top of numerous comments elsewhere. My position is actually that while the original ecclesial structure was more Presbyterian, it quickly evolved into a monepiscopal system, and this was a legitimate, even ideal development. If I didnt believe this, I would not be Anglican.

[@molodoychilovek1949]

@@TheOtherPaulWhy was it a legitimate development in contrast to the NT that strongly suggests multiple elders in a local church?

[@MarkTodd-yc1zd]

@@molodoychilovek1949 Nothing about the notion of multiple elders in a local congregation is opposed by the episcopal system. A parish can have more than one presbyter. The rejoinder might be that although the church structure in the NT is somewhat vague and is not identical to the episcopal system, there are definitely aspects of it that are highly suggestive of and lean towards a three-fold ministry. The role of the apostles, Paul's various instructions to Timothy, and even the Counsel of Jerusalem in the book of acts all seem to foreshadow the inevitable development of the bishop as a third office.

[@Psalm144.1]

@@molodoychilovek1949 Not trying to convince, just saying because you don’t know the direction of the argument you disagree with. No doubt many Evangelicals in Anglicanism see the development of three fold ministry in Scripture. Paul instructs Timothy and Titus with many authorities not given to every Presbyterian. Look at the Scriptures for everything he tells them to do. Think of them as not necessarily a monarchical clergyman, but someone with a higher authority. He doesn’t tell them to have a council decide matters, but for them to do so. Also, in Acts 15 for instance, it’s not a vote for the decisions made.

[@brotherbroseph1416]

23:43 correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t the scriptures tell a woman to cover her head in worship?

[@Hunteronix]

Binging The Other Paul hurts my Romanism. Idk whether to be happy or confused.

[@firebat724]

If consensus is important that how come Joahna doesn't side with the majority of legitimate bishops in the world that Anglican orders are not valid? I think thats a very difficult question for Anglicans to answer.

[@firebat724]

Anglo Catholics I mean.

[@Presbapterian]

Which "legitimate bishops" did you refer to? The papists? Or the Eastern churches? The Oriental? The Assyrians? When you appeal to the majority, you will still be left with multiple different groups of "majority". The truth is not determined by the principle of "majority takes it all" because, first, it doesn't work, and, second, it would negate saints like Athanasius, at least at certain amount of time in history.

[@firebat724]

@Presbapterian That's my exact point, though. It's not as simple as the majority report says. Obviously Johnathan disagrees with the majority of bishops on the validity of Anglican orders so he can't make the argument that reformed Anglicans are wrong because the majority disagree with them. Like you said a majority of Bishops disagreed with Athanasius and yet he was correct.

[@Psalm144.1]

Jonah is inconsistent to remain an Anglican and say the majority of the Church accepts Nicaea II. The CofE in its documents does not assent to Nicaea II nor do all of the Protestant Confessions especially regarding Nicaea II matters pertaining to eternal salvation. In other words, he’s assenting to the Church of Rome and the EO Church over the authority of his own.

[@merecatholicity]

The ACNA affirms the council formally as an ecumenical council of “the undivided church.” Furthermore, my specific jurisdiction within the ACNA demands my assent to it.

[@marcuswilliams7448]

Jonah = American Anglican Benedict Cumberbatch

[@whatsgoingonwhy9096]

What are we even doing here?

[@87DAM1987]

Athanasius. The whole church fell into arianism.

[@michaelwilson3133]

I FW with Jonah . 👑

[@gabrielferreira1531]

Jonah presentation was terrible