React for the Haters in 100 Seconds

[@Fireship]

buy my react course

[@_liminor]

🤣

[@yousafwazir3167]

Next js ??

[@enic-ma]

Does it come with haters section?

[@tanavposwal]

Yes yes offcourse

[@akiraarchangel2911]

XD LMAO

[@superslayerguy]

I'm a full-time React developer & this gave me a good laugh. React's most useful feature is that it can pay the bills.

[@overlisted]

that's a very important feature

[@luberius]

LMAO

[@samuelhimmelstrup799]

Pretty sick feature if you ask me!

[@nurhesen]

True. Also with Chakra UI it is pretty easy to style pages. I think it should be used more widely than MUI

[@haroonmalik6682]

I am also learning React and simply loving it. Hope I'll become a full time react developer.

[@basione]

Honestly, React changed my life when it burst onto the scene. I became a back-end dev 😁

[@shapelessed]

I changed to backend the moment I tried React... Now unless the employer agrees to use Svelte I tell them to F themselves.

[@albithesecond3921]

reacts frontend?

[@kennedylelei]

​@@albithesecond3921 the joke: 1 you: 0

[@albithesecond3921]

@kennedylelei8453 oh lolll

[@Sfxxfs]

Same feeling 😂

[@NonTwinBrothers]

I love how you can never tell if this man is sincere or not, and yet he still presents everything you need to learn. That's some serious writing skill right there

[@simonboddy7415]

He's a little bit the Shakespeare of tech writing. So good, you can never be totally sure which side he's on !

[@carlosmspk]

I love that you can always tell what's a joke and what's not, but it comes so out of the blue that there's that little delay between him saying a normal sounding sentence and you going "lol"

[@mentoriii3475]

as a professional react dev, i never knew react syntax is annoying until i played a little bit with svelte and vue

[@CottidaeSEA]

My complaints about React are basically the same complaints others have about Java. It's slow, loads of boilerplate code and it takes too long to get things going. At least it doesn't need a compiler... oh wait... is that webpack I see with 50 different arcane plugins to get the work done? Oh dear...

[@wanderingpalace]

im just learning react react's complex structure is one of its gimmick just as stated in the video "all the complexity make you feel like you are a real developer to me, c c++ is a real language but javascript is also a real language with its quirks and weird stuffs complexity makes things real and fun to me, java is not a real language because java is too simple in terms of syntax 1 year old kid can learn java in 10 days

[@y200sub]

@@wanderingpalace Ummm... Java is a real language, a shitty, annoying, verbose language, but still a real language that does very real apps

[@shimadabr]

@@wanderingpalace Complexity may make things "real and fun", until you have a real project with real deadlines, real complexity and need it to really scale haha. C++ has it's speed, hardware level communication and flexibility that makes it appropriate for certain projects, and Java has it's safety, huge ecosystem and quality libraries/frameworks that makes it appropriate for other projects (and it's not even THAT verbose nowadays). Both are great tools for what they can do. But complexity for the sake of complexity is plain stupid, with so many quality alternatives for frontend, i don't know why react is still the top pick, maybe because of the metaframeworks? Who knows.

[@ir1528]

It's easy to experience it if you know plain js or Typescript

[@alexanderst.7993]

"For the haters" is actually a really good way to generate,so to speak, programming humor. Not that i hate react but this is still hilarious

[@insertedgynamehere6487]

>programming >humor pick one. nerds arent funny hate to break it to u :0

[@gr1evin]

@@insertedgynamehere6487 implying that programmers are nerds, wish they was tbh

[@capsey_]

@@insertedgynamehere6487 if programmers were actually nerds our world would be much better place

[@telnobynoyator_6183]

There are two kinds of good programming humor - laughing at dumb shit lunatics say (gophers) - ironically (or not) hating on something (like the go programming language)

[@skills697]

for ( haters = 0; haters < views; haters++ )

[@Mr_bombastic-839]

you should really do another series of "For the Haters in 100 seconds". this was awesome.... satirical, but very informative...

[@dbroche]

Satire is funny cause it’s true 😬

[@techiza652]

Python for the Haters pls

[@gustavo9758]

@@dbroche

[@gustavo9758]

Seriously tho, a JS for haters in 100 seconds would be awesome!

[@rocstar3000]

Yesss bro

[@madhavmanocha4999]

"this has been me destroying my reputation in the react community". Man, you are the reason why many of us joined these communities in first place.

[@Aschentei]

the way he delivered that line too...so deadpan but so funny

[@daleryanaldover6545]

*in 100 seconds

[@kerubi5s]

he actually got me to learn react too ahaha

[@samiurias]

I love your videos man!

[@barnabasbartha3507]

self burn, those are rare.

[@PzMcQunn]

"UseEffect if a great way of introducing infinite loops" Yes it is...I was supposed to make a page as an assignment, that could display the weather in a selected city. This info had to be fetched from weatherstack, where you can have x-amount of api-calls with the free user. Well I introduced an endless loop with a UseState, and accidentally used all of my couple of hundred calls in under a second. Thanks lmao.

[@wheeler553]

thats hilarious

[@agsystems8220]

I remember hearing a talk by a facebook developer who was talking about making his code safe, and one of his comments was about "colleagues accidentally DDoSing your service". I had no idea how that could happen regularly enough to be specifically called out till now! :D

[@justanaveragebalkan]

Wait for the day when you call an azure api and your bill jumps to 50k in 10 seconds, then you will understand why studying fundamentals and learning how to build stuff on your own actually matters.

[@Rodrigo-jd2wg]

@@justanaveragebalkan nah, what you will understand is that you shouldn't use react xD

[@justanaveragebalkan]

@@Rodrigo-jd2wg I don't use it no?

[@theFriendlyGhst]

I was pretty impressed with React the first time I used it. You can write new UI pieces in only 10x as much code as you would need without react.

[@kevinkunst3870]

Can confirm. I also would suggest you stay far away from Angular as it too is ridiculously verbose to do the simplest of things.

[@TrailersYT]

@@kevinkunst3870 so what should we use?

[@kevinkunst3870]

@@TrailersYT You get to decide! kzbin.info/www/bejne/maardYSeec2phqc Honestly all decent frameworks are usable, it's just that some of the newer ones have learned from past frameworks on what NOT to do, while said older frameworks still haven't really fixed those issues. After doing a few POCs I'm leaning toward Vue, though I'd prefer to test each framework in an enterprise setting. Time to convince some principal engineers!

[@TrailersYT]

@@kevinkunst3870 Thank you for the large explanation! Really helped me. I am a computer science student currently in the second year and I want to do web development Hoping to get my first job in web development soon, but not sure what I should be looking for, cause almost every company asks for 2-3 years of experience 😅

[@Almighty_Flat_Earth]

React js is a shame to JavaScript community. Governments should ban the use of this stupid library. Same functionalities can be achieved with Angular and Svelte with less frustration, so what's the point of using the stupid react js which makes web development unnecessarily complicated.? Those who use react are slaves.

[@mo_mo1995]

This is actually a good series to learn the disadvantages of those techs.

[@LinkEX]

I think I would honestly have an easier time choosing a framework if I were given a satirical criticism in this style for each framework. (Thanks, negativity bias.)

[@Aliens1337]

@@LinkEX 100% real with you, clients don't pick "the best" framework, they pick the most popular one. Most of my clients and companies I worked for, the shotcallers and project managers are non-tech people. They will not give a fuck if you spent 4 hours breaking down the pros and cons of different tech stacks, they will always go with whatever is the most popular. Part of this is because "if it's popular it must be good" mentality. Another reason is because they want to have an easier time finding people to hire on during the project, or afterwards to maintain/rebuild it, and that's a lot easier to do when they built their project on the most popular languages.

[@richardwelsh7901]

@@Aliens1337 companies want to go with a stack that has a large talent pool. You could craft brew your own “stack from heaven” and if nobody else knows how to use it but you then…. I think you get the idea

[@turolretar]

No it’s good if you want to open your eyes to reality and stop breathing in near lethal amounts of copium, nobody should use ever React it’s supposed to be rotting in hell along with the lizard man, it just somehow saw the light of day. But we can change that together as community. good day to you all

[@richardwelsh7901]

@@turolretar the hottest of takes, good sir

[@vicradon]

I love how Jeff ended the roasting with a respect note.

[@Fireship]

Personally, I don't hate react at all. It has the best set of tradeoffs for many projects.

[@elturco9573]

De hecho es lo que menos me gusto. Ser hater y querer quedar bien con aquellos que si les gusta? No podes tener lo mejor de los dos mundos noooo !!!!!!!!!

[@zzco]

@@Fireship Of course. Life is about tradeoffs. Like "do I want to shoot myself in the calf, thigh, arm, leg or foot?" :')

[@krtirtho]

Yeah icing on top of super spicy cake

[@refactorear]

That's the straight man inside him smacking the fool man inside him.

[@heldim92]

Dude, dude! PLEASE do more of these "stuff for haters" videos! Make a playlist! That way, you make us happier and you get to diss everything without commiting! Cleary win-win situation! PLEASE CONSIDER!

[@LinkEX]

Seconded. Also, ending on a high note in this was a nice touch.

[@RoyerAdames]

Third, agree

[@naniy143]

forth

[@tn9974]

@@naniy143 *fourth

[@AndyFarrell008]

Yeh, but how's he gonna top the list of flaws with React ;-) 5, 4, 3, 2... and go.

[@anishadhikari3690]

Me, been involved in both React and (then) Vue, I find vue much easier, comfortable and with much less side effects, was always confused why people praise React (between Vue and React). Today, you finally made my confusion go away. Amazing video.

[@gomesbruno201]

I started with react before even hooks or functional components exists, then I moved to vue 2 and I absolutely loved it. now with the vue 3 release I'm just moving back to react or going to angular. maybe I'll try svelte or solid, I don't know. I just don't like vue anymore

[@xmangle5382]

for real bro, been seeing people praising the shit out of react and i was forced into building a simple crud on it for a company interview challenge and man... react fucking sucks compared to vue, i worked with Vue for about 3 years and love the shit out of this framework

[@jessrabbitxt]

@@xmangle5382speakin facts

[@Nekoeye]

​@@gomesbruno201 Did you really switched to React/Angular because of Vue 3? While Vue 3 still allows the use of the options API, the Composition API with `` is the more suitable and easy approach, offering very minimal learning curve and enhanced functionality.

[@gomesbruno201]

​@@Nekoeye At the time, yes. Nowadays, I'm using Vue 3 (with composition), React, and React Native. I actually dropped Angular completely so far, not by choice. Anyway, I was moody about a change in something I used to like; it was a mistake. Vue is still a great choice, and I regret not realizing this sooner

[@Majaboujallow]

"Life is about suffering. It's not supposed to be fun like Svelte, or fast like Solid or reliable like Angular or all of the above like Vue." 😅 😂

[@lightning_11]

Truely a quote for the ages.

[@canman7773]

I’m a React developer and this is all hilariously true

[@shapelessed]

@@twitchizle Ha... ha... ha... So funny! But on the other side, If I was to choose between React and Svelte, I'd always chose Svelte... Supports TS, syntax isn't literal sewage, works 10x more predictably, development takes 10x less time, and oh, you could learn it in one afternoon compared to React's 3 months or so just to become a junior...

[@joelgreen8132]

@@shapelessed You can create react apps in TS. Nothing wrong with having a perfered Front-End framework. Though react is a library thats mostly to create states and components for its data/component logic UI/UX thats always changing.

[@danielchettiar5670]

@@shapelessed React takes 3 months to learn? For a person who was dropped on their while they were baby, sure. I was the kind of stupid was didn't learn basic dom manipulation, knew barely any js, and built a functional component based calculator app in React based on the classes based docs, with MUI. It took me a day to build the functional side while the rest to understand and get MUI working. I'm stupid. I learn the basics of the rest of React in three weeks. The average person probably better than that. 3 months for React is a damn stretch lmao. You're fanboying too much.

[@heroe1486]

@@danielchettiar5670 React takes more than 3 months to learn correctly, you'd have to make some real projects to really learn it, even for junior. But yes if he was talking about the basic syntax then he's just trolling, I know both and I'd pick up React anyday instead of Vue which I learned first.

[@shapelessed]

@@joelgreen8132 Except everybody's using it together with JSX which makes the two a literal framework, but I don't mind getting corrected over this.

[@dustindustir521]

As a svelte developer, I sometimes watch react tutorials, just to feel superior

[@randomdamian]

I want to learn Svelte :x

[@RaWMajkeL]

Svelte

[@lbedoya13]

What a chad

[@masterdyl101]

@@randomdamian then learn it! It’s great

[@Kyle-xk2rb]

Same I'm also a svelte developer lol

[@SHEEPeros]

“For haters” needs to be a new series. Lovin’ the format. I’m a React dev by job description but I don’t think that’s a good thing - in the same way being a Vue, Angular and Swelt dev is not ideal too. All of these are just frameworks/libs so they’re just someone’s idea on how to build stuff. Core concepts are more important and timeless - also more prevelant on the backend.

[@LarsRyeJeppesen]

Preach!

[@lookupverazhou8599]

Preach! Vanilla til the day I die!

[@joshuawdeveloper4844]

@@lookupverazhou8599 So, outside of React can these front-end devs...Really code anything? I think many no sadly React is a great tool IF your experienced new developers should be learning vanilla Javascript as much as possible. React is just a tool-set. React is more or less fan service, its a great tool but over used. We should be aiming to use the correct tool for the job at hand. So no learning react to me is not the same as really learning development.

[@SHEEPeros]

@_Hedura_ to say it's obvious is presumptive and arrogant. This wasn't obvious to me when I chose to tie my future to a FE framework. I had understood this only after my mentor broadened my horizons on the matter.

[@transforgoku]

Even so I still have to learn Jquery to touch legacy code ._.

[@sor3999]

2:09 A lot of job posts I see says they use React and I immediately toss it aside.

[@dave.thedev]

As a React developer (not by choice, but by necessity) never in my life has something resonated with me so much.

[@dardanillyr3989]

Could you help me with something on react?

[@sudarshangurung]

Hi Dave, I'm starting my React journey. How has the journey been so far for you?

[@feritperliare2890]

@@tambourinedmb enjoy asynchronous useEffect onMount firing at random using dependancies not yet initialized causing extra renders and debug hell

[@devswell6538]

@@feritperliare2890 you just add an if statement and don’t dispatch if it exists

[@shapelessed]

@@devswell6538 "Oh you just do this", "oh you just fix it with that simple trick" - All of which are the WRONG response. A framework is a tool that's supposed to speed up your work, not slow it down. Anything that can be done in React can also be done in vanilla in half the time and half the bugs.

[@aleksandarstevanovic5854]

"...most of them build by teenagers, which abandoned them to learn a real language like C..." hahaha :'( haha :'( it hurts so bad, but you got the point!

[@nishanth6403]

LMAO that was the best part

[@icarojose6316]

Does C still get updates ?

[@theshermantanker7043]

@@icarojose6316 Yeah it does, C2x is a thing

[@tisaconundrum]

@@icarojose6316 22 now bruh!

[@etc1702]

@@icarojose6316 man C/C++ are the most popular languages for embedded and systems programming

[@TopBagon]

Yooo never have I ever been offended by something I 100% agree with

[@FrameMuse]

Thank you, that's so relieving

[@daleryanaldover6545]

I thought I was the only one

[@haddonjames5829]

I spent some time learning React on the React online tutorial app. I also made a mobile app in React Native using Expo. Recently, I find myself less and less interested and more and more confused by React's strange syntax. I agree with all of this...

[@thibaut5345]

Try the last versions of Vue. The syntax is so clear, logical and simple.

[@minecrafter0505]

We need more of these "for the haters" vids. I think they are a lot enjoyable even for devs of that language or framework. I could fill hours with the stuff Google pulls for us Android devs, deprecating things before the new solution leaves alpha, introducing some new permission that requires new callbacks everywhere you do something permission sensitive, forcing app devs to explain to users that they need location permission to access their device's networking (instead of the OS doing that explanation or separating this from the location permission) and so on.

[@ruanvcunha]

As a React student, I laugh my ass off with "make us feel like real developers". Keep it going, we need more of this

[@HedronProduction]

Classes are literally the Devil... until you need that one thing that doesn't work in function components, and then you sign the contract anyway.

[@ThisAintMyGithub]

Ah yes, Error Boundaries

[@VikashXman]

Please elaborate, I want to know more.

[@tawfeeq00]

I only use classes, i don't know why they hate them ! It's super easy

[@RizkyGusna]

What is that thing?

[@ThisAintMyGithub]

@@tawfeeq00 it really comes down to boilerplate. With classes you have so much extra code that the lines of code end up excessive (most of the time), plus you can handle the whole lifecycle in useEffect for the most part. Also, you don't need to write "this" in front of everything. That being said, useEffect is about as understandable as hieroglyphics if you go by the documentation, so... Really, unless your team has resolved to use either one exclusively, there is very little harm in using classes.

[@Rmoore08]

Thank you. THANK YOU. I've been learning React for work the past couple months and it has not been a very smooth process. I feel so seen. Happy Friday everyone, no working on React tomorrow!

[@jedmalveda]

Also learning react, the Context API model really confuses me. Will try again tomorrow... :D

[@PhilipAlexanderHassialis]

@@jedmalveda abandon Context, embrace Redux Toolkit.

[@frozen_dusk579]

I'm using react for my internship and it is going very slow. #relatable

[@CodeSynergy]

@@PhilipAlexanderHassialis Context and Redux has different use cases. Redux should not be used for everything. Context has it's own purpose

[@Dakappon]

@@CodeSynergy what is the main differences ? And when do you use which?

[@priolo22]

ten minutes of standing ovation with tears in my eyes (a React developer)

[@OZTutoh]

2:15 I was not ready for that

[@astroorbis]

To be honest, I checked out React when I first started doing web development, tried it, realised it was really hard, saw your Vue video, and now I develop my web projects in Vue. Thanks!

[@astroorbis]

@@zz-if1ic I do still eventually want to learn React, but I kinda want to "work my way up the ladder" in terms of easiest to hardest. Do you recommend Angular over Vue?

[@DmitriiBaranov-ib3kf]

​@@astroorbisforget React and Angular and do Vue

[@kamrulislam8158]

I am a react dev working with this thing for 3 years now. But the stuff you talked about is damn true. Not gonna lie

[@HarshRajAlwaysfree]

.

[@kamrulislam8158]

@@HarshRajAlwaysfree That's the startup culture. They follow what the industry. Not what the developer is good at

[@itgiants5218]

is react slow?

[@renatosardinhalopes6073]

@@HarshRajAlwaysfree why don't you work as a freelancer then? Make websites the way you like. It seems you are shooting yourself in the foot. Your team is absolutely right in using a popular and well maintained technology that is easy to pick up. It also sooner or later you will find yourself creating lots of boilerplate and creating your own libraries to automate your work.... tada you just created a react competitor! Libraries/Frameworks exist for a reason.

[@HarshRajAlwaysfree]

@@renatosardinhalopes6073 It's just a phase, i just hate react and wanted to complain about it for a laugh It's not like i don't understand why it was chosen.

[@elmomertens]

I am a Vue dev, I love Vue, but I wanna see Vue for the Haters in 100 Seconds so much.

[@LinkEX]

Considering Vue got the highest praise in this video comparatively, this might be one of the harder video in this series to make.

[@ja31ya]

Same

[@luichyluichy]

Sorry... no one sane hates Vue.

[@elmomertens]

Well I think it's not really about hate but rather about pros and cons

[@dlysele]

Pardon me, but there is the door, walk through it please.

[@DodaGarcia]

I am so lucky to have stopped doing front-end in 2008 (using JQuery) and only returned to it in 2018 when Vue was already available. I could never see the appeal of React or JSX, but it's very probably that if I had returned to JS one or two years sooner I'd have been stuck with it.

[@basharzain216]

0:45 the clown suits javascript so well.

[@flamakespark]

Imagine making "JS for haters in 100 seconds"! Polyfills, compatibility, 'this' keyword, 'Dates' class... Oh boy, that'd be a hot one 🔥🔥🔥

[@Justin73791]

'This' is the best part of Javascript. Give me one other language that has such a flexible, mutable and inheritable keyword.

[@Chrissy717]

@@Justin73791 I honestly can't tell if you are joking

[@mikopiko]

@@Justin73791 Ruby

[@ameer6168]

Why everything is fuckin object

[@Justin73791]

@@Chrissy717 I 100% am.

[@Yusbarrett1]

This is why I will always be happy as a back-end developer. Even with all the hardcore changes in SQL, C#, c++, Java, etc., it's always possible to catch up and adapt. Whereas with front end I look away for a few months and the whole library or framework went obsolete and has been replaced by another which in turn also goes obsolete in no time.

[@OzzyTheGiant]

I can only hope that we are at a point where everything is finally coming together. Browsers are more in-line with web standards, Web Components are a thing, and web assembly will finally allow us to use other languages besides JavaScript.

[@okie9025]

​@@OzzyTheGiant god please no. I really hope the hype with web components and WASM dies down, because literally no webdev worth their salt cares about writing their UI in Rust or whatever. I hope the SSR fad also dies down, and we can finally return to true peace where we write SPAs with React and REST APIs in whatever.

[@beepbeepgamer1305]

1:01 as a guy who has a brother who did masters in math. I can say this graph looks bit weird.

[@RandolphPereira]

This is so true, having worked with angular and react extensively I still don’t understand why react became so popular .The code I write in React today could be written way faster and cleaner in Angular.

[@onemangamer587]

I've just started learning React, and it's total hell 😭 The first time I saw the map function being used to make a list that will then be styled in CSS, but in a sort of HTML, JavaScript and CSS orgy. That being said, I've only just started, but my first 3 days have been total and utter hell

[@Kimi-xp2th]

Once you get the hang of it you'll fall in love with React

[@dbroche]

Glad this vid made the cut. Reflects most of my thoughts. Especially VUE being fast, FUN, and reliable!

[@xiaokourou]

Except Vue IDE support can be shaky

[@patrickspiegel5524]

@@xiaokourou WebStorm and all your IDE problems are solved.

[@danielegvi]

@@xiaokourou This is in my opinion the only thing holding it back from being the holy grail of view frameworks/libraries. JSX has excellent integration with JS/TS, the integration of Vue files is nowhere near that level, though I hope it can be one day.

[@RiadDZz]

@@danielegvi @par Vue 3 was rewritten in typescript so typescript is a first class citizen there, for the ide (Vs code) just install Volar with takeover mode and u get a 100% typescript support anywhere in your component

[@blank4157]

Ye, with volar you even get intellisense in template as well. .vue files in Vue 3 with Volar is definitely on par with jsx.

[@max-c14]

'Enter the gates of tutorial hell' I really felt that one

[@jumpingsloth4698]

After making several Projects in React I can only say, that this is so damn true. For everything exceeding a counter example, you have to use certain „hacks“, to bypass the mostly stupid design guidelines you are forced to implement.

[@disableblue883]

1:35 only good thing about this magic is it keeps start and stop together. But it looks ugly. I like the way its done with ember modifier

[@saalimbhatkar6403]

0:08 React wasn't created by Mark Zuckerberg. I was created by Jordan Walke.

[@NovemberOrWhatever]

To attempt to write a script for a "Python for the haters in 100 seconds" video: Python is a multi-paradigm programming language known for its slow execution times, simple syntax, slow execution times, extensive library, slow execution times, and confusing version distinction. Python can be used to write functional code, assuming you don't care about statics, don't mind lambdas not being fully recommended in the style guide, and are fine with half the language being geared towards OOP. Python also features obscure syntax like the walrus operator which is useful for code golf, making your code hard to debug, and feeling really smart when no one else can understand it. Modules like NumPy can speed up your code from painfully slow to just annoyingly slow at only the cost of all of those little elegance features like multiplying different data types together, arrays with a variety of data types, and not having Java levels of this.that.aThirdThing.theFunctionYouWant(). To get started, just download Python 3, click through all three hundred installer prompts, and create your first program. Then, when you've gotten to wanting to try out those cool techniques you see on Stack Overflow, realize that you've been using the Python 2 that was preinstalled with your OS and behaves almost, but not quite, exactly the same as the later version and is not noticeably different until you have so many other things that it could be that it takes hours to narrow down. I am, of course, exaggerating these, and I do quite like Python, but it's funny to hate it

[@smanzoli]

CUDA and NUMPY... oh, I love CUDA and how easy it is to jit compile Python functions.... and run it as fast as C++ even if we don´t need it to be that fast.

[@Flackon]

There are only two kinds of -frameworks- libraries: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses

[@ichris870]

Best comment so far

[@scottserage9022]

Jokes aside, I’m a professional react developer and I agree with a ton of this. The framework - I mean library - is very popular and gets the job done but I would be lying if I said I didn’t have an interest swapping over to a different framework. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense right now because of the demand. Plus I believe React will improve more and more over time. Hooks are flawed but they’re much better than class components imo, so at least it’s moving (painfully) in the right direction.

[@MindlessTurtle]

I'm not much of a React developer, so I'm curious why the hate for classes and the push for "flawed" hooks? The latter is less rigid or something?

[@Flackon]

Problem is (or advantage, depending on your pov) is that React's commitment to staying backwards compatible will mean that stuff will continue to pile on top of all the legacy cruft over and over again. Eventually, it will be worth it to replace it with sleeker software

[@marcelocardoso1979]

@@MindlessTurtle Classes require way too much code for what a hook like useEffect can achieve

[@paulomirandaarias9544]

@@MindlessTurtle the lifecycle with classes (OOP) are harder to maintain than hooks (FP), among other things, but mainly it's all related to those lifecylce methods (componentWill*, componentDid*, should* vs useEffect only)

[@scottserage9022]

@@MindlessTurtle like others have said, simplicity. Hooks are fine for the most part, they’re still fairly new though and a lot of developers misuse or over use them. Mentioned in the video, there are several hooks that exist to improve performance because React will rewrite a lot of values that it doesn’t need to if you don’t explicitly tell it not to. Again, I make a living using React, it’s a fine library. I can just confirm it has its pain points (like most languages, frameworks, or libraries) and that there’s room for improvement.

[@suddierobots]

As an angular developer. I love this. This embodies all of my thoughts in 100 seconds.

[@fionat.6411]

Really looking forward to "Angular for the Haters"

[@emmanuelagarry3725]

@@fionat.6411 It will never happen haha 🤣

[@edu.paixao]

$ ng build $ ls total 30GB 1GB bundle-omg-132456.js 29GB vendors-omg-112233.js

[@Azmidium]

@@edu.paixao how'd you get your hands on my project?

[@rajatnegi3896]

as a ng dev this makes me feel safe

[@smarterlife7331]

This is not just for haters, the sad thing is this is an actual reality.

[@shivan2418]

What are those drops in the graphs around year end at 2:25?

[@IvanRandomDude]

React, the only frontend framework that does not have built-in support for REACTive programming

[@OzzyTheGiant]

The only framework that has a hard time supporting actual Web Components

[@half.blood07]

The only framework which is not actually a framework.

[@illustris.]

But it's not a framework...

[@BrianTakita]

It's a library dammit...##%#!%#!%#!snaoheusnth.h,.a

[@techbytesnepal9027]

Even though it appears highly unlikely, I hope vue becomes as successful as react in the near future. My relationship with Vue is like falling in love at first sight; it's simply amazing. It's not fun to work with react as much as in vue. I'm learning and using react because it's popular and most companies prefer devs who know how to use it.

[@georgeousthegorgeous]

Svelte is even better, but vue is amazing too.

[@rubenheymans1988]

Oh man I hated vue (2),no damn structure or consistency at all, but that's probably the developers fault why did the initial setup

[@Stefan-gz6jm]

Vue is horrible. And yes, React needs some knowledge, probably that s why you hate it haha

[@randomizednamme]

Sadly Vue has just become a react wannabe, sucks because I really liked the early direction of the framework.

[@techbytesnepal9027]

@@Stefan-gz6jm lol, i don't hate it btw. I use it on a daily basis so i dislike certain aspects of it. As per learning and knowledge, vue is equally deep. Easier to begin but hard to master. I never said i hated react btw, don't know how you came up with this idea 🙏

[@justinvaldez4181]

I mean i'll be here to watch a haters version of everything you've already done in 100 seconds... That just means more seconds for me to grow my brain and become a pro-developer.... right?

[@karlovuk]

I subscribed so fucking fast! I finally don't have to play an hour long video at 2× just to familiarize myself with a concept.

[@larrysal8866]

Never understood how people say that JS is easier than C...

[@_abdul]

I don't know how to React to this.

[@slava_trushkin]

I suggest doing it as Svelte as possible.

[@HypnosisBear]

I see what you did there LMAO 🤣🤣🤣🤣😏😏

[@_abdul]

@@HypnosisBear I didn't C

[@HypnosisBear]

@@_abdul This is the Pinnacle of programming humour LMAO 🤣

[@thesingularity3566]

Just simply vue it then move along

[@captainlennyjapan27]

Jeff thank you so much!!! I’ve been always disliking how bloated React is but I never felt qualified to make such criticisms. Now I can refer to this video 😂

[@GarrettCodes]

Had to throw in that quick disclaimer at the end before the react community hunts you down 😂

[@dLzzzgaming]

As a React Developer, this was spot on. I loved this, and it hurt too.

[@keros_cene]

what is the sfx on 0:11? I've been searching for it lol

[@matthewpulls441]

I fell in love with vue the first time I tried it, but unfortunately forced to work with react due to its uncessary popularity 🥺

[@abidkhairy..3863]

same here bro, i wanna work with vue but react job pays more

[@Requiem100500]

I absolutely love this new "for haters" series. Hope to see more.

[@dannydevs]

React from the beginning was not DX-focused in the sense it was a library, not a framework. A lot of developers want a set of tools that make their lives easier so they can focus on building neat things. In order to build neat things with React you have to essentially become a framework author yourself, at the very least choosing which tools to combine with React to form a complete toolchain. For newer devs, this is very painful because we don't know which tool is a good choice, so we end up researching at least a few to make sure we're not doing something stupid. This holds true for CSS tooling, state management, even routing to a degree. This is why Next.js blew up, because it made good choices for you and provided a full framework for you to make stuff with: styled components out of the box, file-based routing, github-based deployment, let alone all the SSR-related stuff.

[@jessrabbitxt]

And now we have trash such as server actions

[@pixeldrifter]

@@jessrabbitxt It feels like a lateral attempt at overcoming a primary, foundational architectural decision. Usually impossible to do, at the least quite difficult. Additionally, high quality, up-to-date documentation in modern frameworks is table stakes. But React is the new jQuery, it'll be in codebases for decades.

[@robertjackson-te8je]

Throwing everything into JS makes a crap experience in the end, no matter how you do it, it will be slow and memory leaks are way higher. This makes a crap experience for the users and the developers. Single page apps are a stupid idea that needs to die. Us old timers didn't come up with the idea of progressive enhancement because it sounded like a cool thing. It is because we started out programming long ago when computers had less cpu, ram and slower storage. Throwing everything into the browser as one big clump has always been possible, we didn't do it because it is quite often too slow. It is also not nearly as reusable and easy to maintain as apps built with the concerns separated. Having JS control everything makes a big ball of spaghetti mud. Modern developers run some code on their new higher end phones/laptops and think that it is going to work the same on other peoples devices. That is not realistic and never has been. Single page apps often give people an inferior experience as they take longer to load, actions take longer etc. For example linkedin uses it and it often gets slower than hell and sometimes crashes. I am also getting lots of unexpected actions, clicking on like loaded a random page earlier and other weird bugs. I guess I am just too old and old fashioned and not hipster enough for liking to separate my CSS from my JS from my HTML and use a different language on the server to process it all. Then again how many developers actually study programming techniques these days?

[@sodium7554]

I've started a React course just to know what it was about (i'm an Angular developer) and i'm pretty much puzzled with most of why i see. Especially, what is that useState madness that makes you declare a getter and a setter for everything. Why isn't state an object with .get() and .set() method like any sane person would expect?

[@nikich375]

Respect for Vue. I think it deserves a higher ranking within dev community

[@bilalch898]

As a React js developer. I feel hurt. But it's all facts, react has poor performance, makes things complex for no reason, etc etc .. many other frameworks are better, but not being used just bcz they aren't famous like react.

[@ukeshshrestha2874]

React has poor performance. Seriously... It means you don't know any optimization stuff. Using a hammer to screw will not work. You should use the right tools for the right job.

[@bilalch898]

@@ukeshshrestha2874 well, don't be offended kid, i know all the performance optimization stuff in react, which is completely a mess. I see frameworks which provide the optimization out of the box and then i see react, i feel sad. LOL. truth is bitter.

[@donnyroufs551]

@@bilalch898 oh oh shots fired

[@Justin73791]

@@ukeshshrestha2874 No React has poor performance 100%. I work on a lot of web assembly/webgl projects and employers just want react for no reason whatsoever. I have spent years in dev tools staring at CPU / GPU profilers trying to get around the performance limits. In the end I just start a react app to make the boss happy, and then immediately setup a sandbox to execute as much vanilla js as I can. I've built my own state management solutions INSIDE REACT because pushing millions of pixels into react state uses much more memory then it should. Not to mention when using several tech stacks within a front end project the amount of packages react needs to understand everything going on is a massive front end bloat.

[@Stefan-gz6jm]

@@bilalch898 sad that nothing can beat Next.js in this moment. And Next.js uses React, ahh what a shame

[@TheMR-777]

This makes me think, how Mature is C++ I mean, literally, there's literally nothing like Library-Hell, or any type of Hell entirely. Everything is so managed, meaningful, and free from boilerplate. I love it more now :)

[@jsus159]

I can't tell if you are been serious or joking

[@simonmaracine4721]

@@jsus159 Exactly... :)

[@drdesten]

To be fair, C++ has little boilerplate. It's just bloated. But then again nobody forces you to use the full featureset

[@TheMR-777]

@@jsus159 Joking man :) Still, one can agree, like myself

[@TheMR-777]

@@drdesten Experts say, it can be Cleaned up, by breaking the ABI, which Standard doesn't prefer to do

[@manaberry]

Hahaha, the Skyrim music on Zucker' part is priceless.

[@hackanimator12]

as someone who is using react for colege projets, it is rough

[@AlbertCloete]

As a Vue dev, I haven't been able to find anything wrong in this video.

[@JamesBoullion]

So happy my team uses Vue. It is by far my favorite framework. I think Vue 3, with native typescript, is too good to ignore. Really hoping Vue starts stealing more and more of React's share of the market

[@mrfeynman42]

@@JamesBoullion Amen to that, Vue brother.

[@JZGreenline]

Vue is tight.

[@isachinj]

Being a React dev I loved all your content till now, oh boy here comes the moment of truth 😅😅

[@Indiantravler-c7t]

It’s just tech humor . He doesn’t mean it

[@yarpenzigrin1893]

@@Indiantravler-c7t He does. React is crap. Use vue instead.

[@meriofrog]

@@yarpenzigrin1893 The real men use Angular *obvious sarcasm

[@AbstractCard]

@@yarpenzigrin1893 Is vue better? I was just about to start learning React because of it's popularity but I'm now reconsidering hahahaha

[@yarpenzigrin1893]

@@AbstractCard You need to know js, html and css in either case so start with that and then decide what you need to get a job. But yes, vue is way better than react.

[@SF-eg3fq]

"this is me destroying my reputation with the react community in 100 seconds" lol

[@acludo1278]

but is all true thought!!!!

[@meriofrog]

​@@acludo1278 Nah, for example you create infinite loops in useFootGu... uuh useEffect only if you are stupid.

[@vadiks20032]

i wanted to make games from scratch realized making games from scratch requries huge geometry knowledge and lots of things decided to make games on some engine realized making games on engine requires learning a lot of stuff from the engine and learning the way how games usually work (with these colliders, raycasts etc) gave up, decided to do the easiest thing. javascript, web devel... realized that guys who hire make no sense and i have to learn a lot of nonsense

[@anaepeot]

Im a 4th year student, and currently taking our wfh OJT, we are assign to make an application using React, Im more of a vanilla PHP kind of guy, I developed our capstone project using it and now Im learning React for a month, and Im definitely loving it, tho I agree about useEffect and some things became more complicated, when I saw how React handle Forms, I instantly remember how easy it is in PHP + Jquery 😂

[@HelloWorld-fg2nm]

Hooks ruined everything. Algebraic effects? Pure functions? I bet the engineers thought they were really clever coming up with this stuff, when in reality it's neither. Classes had more boilerplate but they were at least explicit and simple... the amount of days wasted infinitely looping because of useFootGun makes me want to [fill in the blank]

[@OzzyTheGiant]

That's when I lost all my respect for React.

[@IxMeTutorials]

You should try out Vue 3 or Solid.js. Both offer concepts very similar to React hooks but without the headaches.

[@HelloWorld-fg2nm]

@@IxMeTutorials That's just unrealistic. I can't tell my company to switch off of React. React is literally 70% of the frontend work listed on Indeed/LinkedIn.

[@blank4157]

Me: They could have come up with explicit lifecycle hooks corresponding to their class component counterparts. React Team: Here, hold our useEffect.

[@gaelcalloch3200]

So I went for vue and you confirmed my choice. Also I use java as backend :)

[@DmitriiBaranov-ib3kf]

There's also Java for haters

[@Stridsvagn69420]

Thank you for this! I just talked about it yesterday how much I hate React with a passion and how much better things like Vue or Svelte are.

[@wyntermc2126]

As a developer trying to write something other than a website in react, having to macguyver around stupid constraints is painful. Good to know im not the only one.

[@ducodarling]

1:34 That meme is best overall description of trying to put any program together. By nature, none of this is supposed to be happening. The desired result is obviously fleeting.

[@Caborrrl]

I think you failed to mentioned that this library/framework destroyed the old MVC design pattern and now we have representation and logic layer in one part. So fun!

[@themesong5477]

the only reason i dont love it is bc its made by zucc, react is really good tho

[@mridulbarman027]

Yeah I fully agree that, that why i learnt react after angular 🤣🤣🤣

[@HypnosisBear]

Well, I don't care who made it, I just care about the features and bugs. 😂🤣🤣

[@bautiq]

Can relate. Imagine if Elon Musk started making stuff for programming. It would be a dope

[@anush8]

@@HypnosisBear Just to be sure, you guys do know that React wasn't invented by Mark Zuckerberg right?

[@igorswies5913]

It's not made by Zucc, but a team working for his company. If there is anything in React that Zucc has tampered with against us, please tell me. But I doubt that because it's open source

[@plabanmondal3111]

Next Angular for Haters :)

[@Enigmata23]

When I get asked why I switched from React to Angular I just share this video. Sometimes the most popular kid in school is a moron.

[@MrDoom159]

1:10-1:15 I love how he called me out like that. That's exactly what I've been doing before going to college: making shit in React and praising it as the best thing ever, then I've been introduced to C and I haven't been the same ever since

[@rkvkydqf]

The only reason I ever tried learning React is because of React Native because I needed to use a library from the NodeJS ecosystem because it wasn't ported to a better language.

[@raz0229]

React native is way behind in popularity these days compared to Cordova, Flutter etc

[@ravensthor9547]

@@raz0229 And React Native is a piece of trash, mobile apps made with Javascript are extremely slow compared to languages ​​actually used to develop Mobile like Flutter, Kotlin, Swift. To illustrate this, an application made in native languages ​​(Kotlin and Swift) takes 30 seconds to open, while with Flutter it takes (1 minute and 30 seconds) With React Native we have a mobile application taking 4 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS!

[@raz0229]

@@ravensthor9547 don't know much about React native, but I love flutter and don't see any big performance issues ( at least for me) with it compared to writing native android apps. You might disagree and it's true, but it comes at the cost of cross platform app development and flutter is a great tool for this purpose

[@shapelessed]

@@ravensthor9547 Ugh... Flutter... Eww... Structure, styling and logic all mashed together... Maybe the performence is superior, but the syntax is disgusting...

[@OzzyTheGiant]

@@shapelessed I do agree partially because it seems to draw inspiration from React, but given that it's class based, you could try separating some of your components out into more maintainable pieces

[@satyammishra5582]

we want Python for the Haters in 100 Seconds Java for the Haters in 100 Seconds JS for the Haters in 100 Seconds Linux for the Haters in 100 Seconds

[@BeStance]

As a React developer, I really enjoyed this one. Please, more like this!!!

[@dardanillyr3989]

Could you help me with something on react?

[@developmentpersecond4027]

@Fireship , what is the dip in downloads at the start of every year from ?

[@SuperMBARutgers2013]

I'm glad i'm at a point where I can appreciate these insights and the glarings. The amount of resource for getting up to speed with react is so profound, it's almost a rite of passage. I look forward to refactoring in Svelte, maybe Vue

[@Sechan1996]

literaly my experience when i first had to use it. took me 4 month to understand how it can be used in an acceptable fashion.

[@dardanillyr3989]

Could you help me with something on react?

[@WaffleBladeFilms]

I use React all the time and enjoy it but damn this was so good! Please make more, was grinning the whole 100 seconds.

[@dardanillyr3989]

Could you help me with something on react?

[@DmitriiBaranov-ib3kf]

​@@dardanillyr3989just use Vue instead

[@dark_nation_7]

I was forced to work on React Native apps for a couple of years and all of this rings absolutely true. I remember watching the React developer talk when they announced hooks and effects and I just had my head in my hands the whole time. The entire Javascript ecosystem is a complete trash fire. I'm safe back in C land again.

[@amateruss]

I'm trying to learn React right now and the trauma I get from Java syntax when I was studying CS is starting to seep back in.

[@theshermantanker7043]

@@amateruss ...Java has almost exactly the same syntax as C and C++

[@jessrabbitxt]

Isn't C and C++ the most painful things in programming? really bro

[@jessrabbitxt]

@@theshermantanker7043 absolutely not

[@blocks4857]

​@@jessrabbitxtonly if you suck at programming

[@Mehari-b9l]

This is the best video on youtube! You speak my years of shrugging about this shit in 100 seconds 👏 All hail the king VUE!

[@Luculent]

Every time I work with react, it is genuinely painful to use functions and hooks instead of just using classes, which do the exact same thing in a much easier and more understandable way.

[@rubanprakash21]

"There are only two kinds of languages: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody uses"

[@ayushvyas3401]

Classic

[@ErtDonuell]

There's also Vue 3

[@eeebeltran5445]

@@ErtDonuell which nobody uses

[@Almighty_Flat_Earth]

React js is a shame to JavaScript community. Governments should ban the use of this stupid library. Same functionalities can be achieved with Angular and Svelte with less frustration, so what's the point of using the stupid react js which makes web development unnecessarily complicated.? Those who use react are slaves.

[@ilanelfen2613]

Am I stupid or is 100 seconds 1 minute 30 not 2:30?

[@aydow]

It's one minute and 40 seconds 😅

[@mohdsala9263]

"setState" is the reason i stopped learning react. Why are we supposed to change a simple method to an extremely weird way that doesn't make any sense?!

[@3rdman99]

This is what i've been saying about hooks since they came out years ago. They are just thin wrappers for classes. This is why I always use the class approach when writing React code, because that's a lot more straightforward way of dealing with states, etc. Hooks are for people who wants to pretend what they're doing is "functional programming", even though if you knew anything about real functional programming (coding in Haskell, etc), you'd know that hooks have NOTHING to do with functional programming.

[@cocoscacao6102]

It doesn't matter if 90% of React devs have no idea what FP actually is. OOP isn't popular these days, therefore it's bad. Who are you to challenge hype driven development?