Ankh VS Kemet - with Roy Cannaday

[@Buffalodude1]

I think Ankh is really solid, I really like the action selection, and combat system. (Maybe an 8.5) But Kemet is a masterpiece. The combat system is wonderful, the tile powers extremely satisfying, and the board perfectly designed.

[@ProfOfHifi]

I had to sell Kemet after I played a 5 player game, where 3 players had a horrible analysis paralysis. The game did last forever. From Matagot I rate Cyclades and Inis much higher than Kemet. I have not played Ankh yet. I have it though.

[@MerrillWhiteKalEl]

So excited to get my copy of Ankh. I love Kemet and am keeping both for sure.

[@kumanight]

Just bought Kemet (will be getting it next week) and i'm super excited. Everything i've seen shows me its absolutely a game for me. BTW I loved the Thumbnail for this video!

[@stefangustavsson9]

Eh, "Kemit" in the white text at 0.12. Yes I know. But still, right there in the beginning.

[@sakabra6352]

We love Ankh. So good at 2 players.

[@JamesD2957]

is the thumbnail Shang Tsung vs Sub Zero? :)

[@brandobombchu8827]

I love all the discussion and both games are super solid! For me, I don’t enjoy king-making/slaying or watching my friends get really far behind. Ankh really feels like it fights directly against both of those things so it’s Ankh for me.

[@jdvirelli]

Thanks for the comparison, I ended up going with Ankh. Also I believe your microphone is facing the wrong direction in this video, hence the audio cutting in and out, and when you punch your hands together beneath the mic it's very loud :D

[@ryuzen30]

I played both and i liked both but Kemet it has a far win for me, the fact you can constantly be in conflict at any turn makes it so pleasing, however in Ankh is more strategic and it could be more unpredictable, both are great games

[@comiccarnival]

Fun review, thanks Roy!

[@fredericbarbe]

Thank you for the comparison!

[@entrecruzado]

Superb quality video!

[@KissellMissile]

When I played Ankh on TTS, my impression was it was Lang's take on Kemet, but not as good. However, CMON's production is better in this case than Matagot's.

[@andraslibal]

I agree the minis are better for CMON but these are games not dioramas ... I have to enjoy the game first.

[@bardsamok9221]

​@@andraslibalYou don't enjoy Ankh?

[@KSweeney36]

One thing to consider especially as you’re comparing the miniatures is the base cost. Quickly searching on the cost and Ankh is double the cost this is going to be reflected in a minute quality and other components. Then the question also becomes for double the cost and getting some better components, is it worth double the money or put it another way is it double the game?

[@vil7310]

I payed 69 euros for Kemet and 78 euros for Ankh

[@bardsamok9221]

Double the money? You need to learn to go shopping. It's not even close to "double". In some places it's near enough the same

[@UnimatrixOne]

Which one better at 2 player? Or Cyclades?

[@hatchimmmmm]

Nice content Roy, congrats

[@steveg7000]

Got some sound sync issues there. But thanks for the comparison.

[@miguelsalgueiro7429]

I played only with my wife, wich game is better with 2? Thank you in advanced.

[@jacobjslee]

I have played neither. But Kemet interests me more now.

[@aalever]

My GF and I loved Blood Rage and absolutely love Ankh - we've played it close to 100 times. We both love area control games. So Kemet is a no-brainer for us, except - we will be playing it at only 2P, and BGG doesn't recommend it at that player count. *Is Kemet worth it if we're only going to play it at 2P?*

[@bardsamok9221]

Plenty on bgg will also tell you don't play blood rage at 2 so take it with a pinch of salt. Did you prefer BR or Ankh 2 player? I just bought blood rage for mainly 2 players :)

[@aalever]

@@bardsamok9221 Both are great at 2P and we play both regularly, depending on what we're in the mood for. I'd say Ankh (especially with the Pharoah expansion) is a little heavier and longer, BR a little lighter and shorter. We have Kemet now and enjoy that at 2P too, but perhaps suited to 2P a little less, if only because you use half the board (so it feels like you're not getting the complete experience, which isn't the case for BR or Ankh).

[@Officegamecafe]

Ankh all the way for me. I’m in the minority that really doesn’t like the “tug of war” aspect of Kemet and struggling to grab and hold on to your points.

[@cartergreen2309]

I don't like it either

[@PatrickBrophy]

Kemet was already my favorite game and the new version made it even better. I’m glad I got out of the Ankh kickstarter when they kept adding so much figure bloat. Especially now knowing you can you use a very small percentage of it at one time. The merge mechanic only sounds cool, but the ramifications of how it changes the game are awful.

[@UnimatrixOne]

That typo 🫣

[@noreviewplaythrough4051]

Liked for the Thumbnail alone

[@A6by]

For me, Ankh wins because it's more abstract and minimalist. It hones four simple actions sharp enough to carry a whole game, and that's not only a more beautiful design, but more fun to play.

[@brianstever2146]

Very interesting discussion.

[@topherhernandez6132]

I can't bite my tongue any longer. I love all the new sets except this one. The drapes look like a shower curtain and off-white tile background makes it feel like you're some random dude doing an adhoc recording in their bathroom. Also, that random wire in the back further ads to the adhoc impression. Good content in the video though and Roy comes across polished as always.

[@Mat23]

Ankh for me!

[@genyk1982]

3:26 actually it's "actually". sorry :)

[@NeilY1000]

Kemet is an amazing game, and does not suffer from Ankh's classic CMON bloat. Avoided Rising Sun for the same reason. If I had to bet on which game will be still talked about in 10 years time ...Kemet every time

[@oerthling]

Have you actually played Ankh? You mentioned bloat, so I have to assume that you talk about the original Kemet, as the new Blood and Sand pyramids are pure bloat (they are nice, but still, the old D4 pyramids worked perfectly fine). But even then Kemet also has a bunch of minis instead of simple meeples or cardboard tokens. So if that denotes bloat for you then both games suffer from that. It sounds like you superficially judged Ankh on sight. It's actually a great game and IMHO even better than Kemet (which is good).

[@NeilY1000]

@@oerthling I have Kemet Blood and Sand, and yes it does have a little bit of bloat (emphasis on little). Nothing even near Ankh/Rising Sun and Blood Rage (Kickstarter versions) ... but then again so does everything CMON produces nowadays. Marvel United ... enough said :) Have played Ankh and enjoyed it. No-one talks about Rising Sun now ... other than to point out that Blood Rage was better.

[@oerthling]

@@NeilY1000 Sure, many people prefer BR over RS. Not me though. I prefer RS. And except for the quality level of the minis (where Ankh clearly wins) the bloat factor between Ankh and K:B&S is pretty much the same. Minis? Check. Cardboard player boards check. Plastic Monuments/pyramids? Check. Playmat? Check. If anything Kemet more bloated than Ankh, because of the plastic Obelisks and multi-level pyramids. But overall I'm happy to consider it a draw. For the KS edition. When it comes to retail core, Ankh is less bloated (cardboard monuments, thin player sheets, no cosmetic Obelisks, no trays). I have no opinion about Marvel United beyond being disinterested. I have the mythic trilogy and never bothered to get any other CMON game. But those 3 Eric Lang games are all great. And having luxurious editions of great games is nice (though I didn't bother to get BR as KS, I'm satisfied with the retail edition).

[@NeilY1000]

@@oerthling I suspect most would side with me .. Kemet God Pledge 69 Euros + shipping vs Anhk Eternal Pledge $220 plus shipping. . But regardless ... Kemet is a classic

[@oerthling]

@@NeilY1000 Oh, I thought we were talking bloat, not price. On price, sure, K:B&S wins. Kemet is a classic and Ankh will be too.

[@folderfolderson7042]

Ankh shall be my choice

[@JasonLaw29]

Kemet is my choice as well purely because it's by Matagot (one of the best publishers of area control games imo).

[@JasonLaw29]

@brandonboom Amended. Apologies for the typo.

[@DarkSunSeverian]

I've had Kemet for a while but just picked up another Matagot game: Inis. Very excited.

[@bardsamok9221]

​@@DarkSunSeverianit's fun huh? Amazingly simple for the quality of gameplay.

[@davidgrocott88]

Onk, published by Sea Mon

[@bricelory9534]

I found Kemet to be interesting but solidly "okay" - the action system in it is really straightforward, just a basic system of action selection, which isn't a bad thing, but I find the tension in Ankh's action/event system to be really intriguing. I'm also finding I'm not nearly as intrigued by the move-in-and-attack system as I might have expected. I prefer the systems in Lang's games and games like Cry Havoc, where you have to build up to conflict events, rather than an immediate fight. I also found Ankh's combat far more interesting because there is a lot more going on than simply trying to win a fight. I was pretty underwhelmed, personally, with Kemet's combat. I also wasn't the biggest fan of Kemet's point system. It is fine, but it didn't really excite me. I'm probably just not the biggest fan of pure area control. I like it as a piece of a game, but there needs to be more going on. Also, there's a lot of talk about Kemet's techs and the variety in them, but I found most were pretty obvious ones, from what I remember, like fairly simple plus attack or defense sort of things. While Ankh's techs are arguably similarly straightforward, I do believe they lend themselves to focusing on different aspects of the game - and the unique god powers are significantly varied, unique, and lean to varying strategies that might not even be feasible without that power - which, to me, leads to more strategic avenues to explore as a player and sometimes having to lean into strategies that are counter-intuitive to me - which is a mind space I like to explore, even if I'm not good at it. In Kemet, there's little to push me out of my natural tendencies in choosing techs. I'd have to play both games more, but I think I put Kemet as a 7 for me - enjoyable but didn't stand out, and Ankh as a 9-9.5 depending on how I feel when asked. Frankly the importance of positioning within a single region is a factor that makes Ankh more intriguing to me, as I have played few games where that is such an important aspect. I respect Kemet and am happy that others love it, but it's a clear choice for me - Ankh is such an engaging and intriguing design.

You see I'm the contrary. I feel like the action system in Ankh is too simple and leaves you with little to no decision, at least if you're trying to avoid setting up events for your opponents Combat was also too simple since everyone's almost the same after after a couple of rounds (same cards, guardians, and a 'ot of similar ankh powers). We might as well play face up cards because the resolution is always so obvious. There's also no tension because as long as you have one figurine in an area you don't care about you can just get back all your cards. I felt I was playing a rather uninteresting puzzle, and not a troups on a map strategy game.

[@bricelory9534]

@ that's totally fair. I found the actions interesting because of the tension of taking suboptimal actions to prevent setting up events, etc. but I agree the actions themselves are basic, which suited me fine since I found interest elsewhere. I personally found the camel events and monument placement to be full of subtle potential, which intrigues me. As for combat, I found there were almost always at least two strategic choices that were there, and I enjoyed that sort of Rock-Paper-Scissors guess of if they'd try to win it, build up Monuments, sacrifice this battle for a future one with Cycle, etc. It's true that some battles were very clear who the winner was, but often battles were about more than just winning the region - which I end up finding more interesting than only fighting to win a region. Kemet's card-based combat felt relatively one dimensional to me consequently. Ultimately, I can see why someone would prefer Kemet, I just didn't get that interested in my play of it. I simply might not be that into pure area control/dudes on a map games (except Small World, but even there the area control is almost just a mechanism for the combos of species/powers to shine). I think I might be like how Zee is with deck building - I enjoy area control as a part of a game, but less when it's the only thing in the game. But that's not to poo poo anyone who does like pure area control, of course!

[@oerthling]

@ Every game that's not using a strong enough luck factor becomes a puzzle if you look close enough. I have had 0 Ankh games where everybody was the same. Of course you can get your cards back. How does that make combat uninteresting - unless you only play Chariot then Cycle in a neverending loop? There's not enough Guardians for everybody - so how can everybody have the same? If your battle card selection is that obvious - you're using them wrong. There's no reason for them to be obvious. You haven't really seen Ankh yet, because you guys didn't really challenge each other.

[@CharlesHepburn2]

Seems like what Roy is saying in conclusion is that he likes the gameplay slightly more in Kemet, but he values the art/miniatures a bit more in Ankh. Hope I summarized that well.

[@bardsamok9221]

Haha. I thought he valued the immediate gameplay (fun) more in Anch, but the overarching structural mechanisms in Kemet edged the score.

[@retrogamer4398]

Ankh, and it's not even close.

[@dnaseb9214]

I am actually getting rdy to get rid of my kemet copy, since I will have this game after Xmas to give me the egypt myth feel.

[@andraslibal]

I have both Blood Rage and Rising Sun, painting them up gradually, I would have really loved to get Ankh but the merger mechanism is an absolute deal breaker for me. I do not want to even try that game because of it. I have a friend who bought it read the rules and sold it without playing. On the other hand, I just got Kemet and I am popping out the pieces as I am watching this video. I hope my group will like it.

[@oerthling]

Thata makes no sense. There's a bunch of scenarios, even without merge. Plus you can drop merhe from amy scenario without destroying it. Merge is a mechanic that doesn't work for everybody, but not even trying a game because of an optional mechanic that yiu can easily ignore?

[@blind_surgeon]

3:53 ooooh Roy had to go there

[@DuGStp]

Kemet is prone to a real bad stalemate you have to slog through where everyone pulls down who ever is about to win so there is a tie, and then go through another round, over and over.

[@tylerfransson9049]

I literally just experienced this. The game was great up until the end. Felt like it went on forever with two players going back and forth

[@JovinGhoul23]

Really hate the new look of Kemet tho. The original is my #1 of all time

[@sylvander4972]

Sorry but Ankh can go back and hide in their Pyramids Thomas in this face off.

[@canadianturfsandwich1258]

Kemet all the way. Gorgeous and perfect. Ankh is bloated with oversized miniatures and handicaped with a hex grid.

[@mikaelforssander1721]

The thing is that a comparison between both game a rather misleading. Sure they are both area control games with an Egyptian mythological theme but other than that they really don’t have many similarities. The real comparison should be between Blood Rage and Kemet which are way more similar mechanically. For me Blood Rage is the better more streamlined game so then Kemet have a though spot in my collection now that I have another game with the same theme in Ankh. But if you prefer Kemet over Blood Rage I really think that there’s a place for both games in your collection.

[@Exozik]

I am curious why you see more similarity between Blood Rage and Kemet? I feel BR is a drafting game more than it is a area control. Kemet is more of a pure area control game.

[@ReadyAimFire_]

Kemet is better.

[@retroarcadefan]

Kemet is so much better... Time will not treat Ankh as well once the plastic fantastic wears off.

[@oerthling]

Why do people keep saying this while K:B&S is full of plastic?

[@retroarcadefan]

@@oerthling You are missing the point. We are talking about the level of detail in CMON miniatures attracting people over the gameplay.

[@oerthling]

@@retroarcadefan And I very much disagree about the value of the gameplay when it comes to Ankh, RS or BR. These are great games irregardless of the bling. But that they also look great is a nice bonus. And Kemet would work just as well with cardboard token monsters - but people surely like the minis because they are nice. You can reduce every game to black and white paper tokens with just text - no colors, no graphics, no minis. But we like that a game looks and feels good. I'm sure CMON (and other publishers) have produced games that don't have much behind their shiny bling. But Ankh is one if the best games I ever played - and I have a large collection and okayed a lot of games. While bling doesn't guarantee great gameplay, it's also not evidence against it.

[@kempkamichal]

@@oerthling Ankh wouldn't work ok without the bling, it's not a bonus. Playing without resin monuments makes you see nothing on the board.

[@oerthling]

@@kempkamichal Not only does it work - that's retail Ankh. And you can find people in KZbin videos who preferred it that way - so they can better see who owns the monuments. Yes, it works with less bling.

[@sirhc8927]

Langs other games are awesome, but dropped the ball on ankh, go Kemet.

[@Gabster_TheSwede]

Ankh will be forgotten in a few years, kemet wont...

[@Gabster_TheSwede]

I rather listen to the BBG ratings or that fact that Roy ALSO rated it higher

[@oerthling]

@@Gabster_TheSwede Kemet: 7.7, Ankh on it's way to 8.1 (fluctuates between 8.0 and 8.1). Not that I care that much about BGG ratings (Dune is ridiculosly low and Scythe way too high). But rating Ankh higher than Kemet is correct (I have and like Kemet). The idea that Ankh will be forgotten in a few years is crazytalk. I could easily see it become a regular tournament game. Relatively short play time, thinky, no luck, easy to display board state. In a world where Twilight Struggle is a tournament game, Ankh likely will be too.

[@Gabster_TheSwede]

@oerthling Nice try, but the newest Kemet and the one that Roy has in the video is Kemet: Blood and sand that has a score of 8,4 and ankh has 8,0. I only brought up the big score because someone mentioned ebay prices which isn't a good matrix to compare a games popularity. Kemet is about 9 years old but it is still compared with newer games and it holds up to today's standards. Ankh is still in the honeymoon phase, it could easily have the same fate as Rising sun.

[@Gabster_TheSwede]

@Patrik yeah the bbg ranking system takes counts the search and activity into acount (like forum , images and so on). When it came out it was the hotness, and i like it. i prefer RS to blood rage but now you dont hear people talk about it. it doesnt show up in top 10s and i only see it mentioned when people are trying to sell their copy. Once again i really like RS but it seems it has had its 15 min of fame.

[@Gabster_TheSwede]

@Patrik to look at the ebay prices is not a good argument. But it is nice that we both agree on that Rising Sun is better then blood rage.

[@PhilGerb93]

Kemet looks great gameplay wise but it's one of the ugliest games I've ever seen

[@simonadams]

thumbnail is mega cringe, but good comparison

[@EpicGamingNight]

That’s the point! Lol I’m a dork! 😝

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

Brutal

[@brentcamara6089]

I thought it was silly and Roy was just being a goof, which I kinda love. Loosen up, maybe?

[@tanggovernment5650]

Nah, the thumbnail is good. Isn't as cringe as Simon's acting reel

[@blind_surgeon]

People who sit from afar and needlessly negitively criticize other things are often projecting their personal problems onto something else.