Annealing Brass with Annealeez

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

Annealing because firing and resizing work-hardens the brass. Annealing softens the brass for 1) longer case life (no neck cracks) 2) more consistent neck tension 3) with more consistent neck tension, more consistent combustion and lower velocity standard deviation/extreme spread.

[@Annealeez]

Thank you for taking the time it takes to produce a great video, and for the honest review of my product.

[@hornadyloader7574]

Anneal eez You're welcome, and kudos on a great product. It's going to make my reloading process go much faster and smoother.

[@jeffhart1884]

Buy some Tempilaq 750. It is a temperature indicating liquid. It takes all the guess work out of it. It costs about 30 bucks, but will last forever.

[@Cleanroom_Dude]

Thanks for the video. You may be able to reduced the sound by closing the back of the unit with durock or cement board. Adding a couple of inches of fiberglass insulation may also reduce the sound. It will be fireproof and hopefully kill the higher frequency of the motor noise.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

The reason for the water quench is not as part of the annealing process, but to stop the heat passing up the highly conductive brass case to the head, mainly essential on short cases, but it does no harm even on longer cases. Many thanks for this excellent tutorial on this economy priced annealing machine, I like it. I would like the case to drop straight from annealing cycle into the tray, rather than the dwell it does now.

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Englishman French That's a good point. It would stop the heat from conducting too far down the case immediately, rather than the slower air cooling process. I'll have to research how far the heat travels down the case once it's removed from the flame. Thanks for posting that!

[@453421abcdefg12345]

+HornadyLoader I think that in practice the heat conductivity would only be a real problem with short pistol cases, I think my 3 1/2" 475 NE cases would take a long time to warm up the case head enough to be a problem, but I do like to quench as soon as I have achieved the annealing of the neck area. I think a good sign that your cases necks need annealing is when black soot marks appear on the outside of the neck area, which means the cases are not obturating.

[@drfroglegs]

+Englishman French A guy on ar15.com (RocketmanOU) did a simulation to determine how far down the neck the heat will go and determined that even with 5.56 cases the body of the brass does not get anywhere near hot enough to soften. Here is an animation of the simulation he ran. In other words, water quenching is completely useless and only adds the step of having to dry the brass afterwards. i1303.photobucket.com/albums/ag158/drfroglegs/RocketmanOU_zpsw2bea0b0.gif

[@longBowHunterII]

brass can only be work harden, no heat treatment , however it can be annealed. so soften. the term quench is used to harden steel. cooling in water has no effect, so it is useless. this process only anneals the heat affected zone. keep the heat (flame) at the very tip of the cartridge.

[@javiervelasquez2525]

Where is this great man, missing his videos.

[@keithfulcher3058]

He passed away late last year. He was very informative.

[@roberte4760]

Thanks for the excellent demo. I purchased one and love it. So easy to use I can do other things at the bench while it runs.

[@My_You_Tube]

Hornady Loader, would you consider reviewing Annealing Made Perfect By Alex from New Zealand ? Thank you.

[@superkillr]

So cool. Never even knew these existed.

[@My_You_Tube]

Thank you Sir ! Great Video !

[@mikeq7096]

Thanks for this video, I have just started the search for a way to do this in my small apartment and I think this is just what I am looking for..

[@hornadyloader7574]

***** That's great Mike. It does have a relatively small footprint. I often marvel at how creative we reloaders can be when it comes to finding space to enjoy our hobby. Hornady Loader

[@misterduster01]

The Orange flame is not brass material burning off. It is the salts and minerals from the various places the brass has come in contact with that is actually burning off of the case. Do a quick internet search and see what color flames copper and zinc burning produce, if you won't take my word for it. C260 Brass is typically composed of 70 percent copper and 30 percent brass. "Dezincification" dies not happen until well after the C260 has reached melting temperatures. But that's not to say it hasn't been over annealer. The specific temperatures and the durations required at those temperature can vary wildly from different manufacturers mostly because of thickness of the casings. Brass can be flash annealed at temperature well over 1,000 °F if the time the brass is kept at that temperature is very short. Some brass may even appear dark after proper annealing and not be ruined as it wasn't made too soft. All that being said there are things one can do to help the annealing process become more accurate, using temperature pastes or even an accurate thermal imager if you have access to such tech.

[@taiming71]

Very nice little machine. Ill have to go check them out.

[@hornadyloader7574]

+taiming71 Yes it is. The folks at Annealeez saw this video and asked me to do their instructional videos for them so if you follow their links, you'll see me again doing their videos. Just to be clear, I did this video long before they asked me to do their instructional videos. It's all on the up and up. I don't work for them, I just did their videos AFTER I did the review.

[@IEraiderfan]

I am going to save up and buy one of these thanks for the video.

[@hornadyloader7574]

Lou Flores That's great Lou! It's a nice machine, and they're coming out with more kits for both smaller and larger calibers.

[@snoozinglion8596]

Hey thanks for the excellent demonstration with this unit ;)

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Snoozing Lion You're very welcome! The folks at Annealeez saw this video and contacted me to do their instructional videos for their website. I've since become friends with the owner of the company. Thanks for watching!

[@snoozinglion8596]

That's pretty cool! Good luck!

[@minerblue9641]

HORNADYLOADER, I sure would like to see a video on annealing once fired iron cases. There are quite a few people experimenting by reloading once fired iron cases.

[@Popgunner101]

Not to beat a dead horse but the part of annealing that softens the brass is quenching it while it's hot. Brass(non-ferrous metal) softens when quenched. Heating it & letting it slowly cool makes it brittle. Ferrous metals (like steel)do the opposite-they harden when quenched.

[@Popgunner101]

Smiddy Wesson It's because brass is non-ferrous. Explained here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_treating

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Popgunner101 I think you're misinterpreting the info in that Wikipedia article. The article does say that quenching will result in a different softness in generic non-ferrous materials compared to air-cooling. That does not mean that the quenching process is what does the actual softening. Heating the material is what changes the structure of the metal and causes the softening. The second flaw in your assessment is that you are assuming that all non-ferrous materials are created equal. In the case of brass, regardless of it's "ferrousness", quenching has no effect on the annealing process. Quenching does stop the heating process much faster than air cooling, but that is the only advantage.

[@Popgunner101]

Article says quenching non-ferrous results in softer (brass)

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Popgunner101 OMG. OK, let me explain it this way. You gather wood and light it on fire to make a campfire. As the wood burns, it turns to ash. Now, you've read an article on Wikipedia that says quenching the fire with water will result in the ashes being much wetter than if you simply let the fire burn out on its own. Does that mean that the water is what turned the wood into ash? No. Heat turned the wood into ash. Quenching it simply stopped the heat faster and made the ashes wetter. Heat is also what softens brass. Here's a suggestion, read an article that actually talks about annealing brass for reloading, NOT a generic article on annealing. Another tip, find an article that is NOT on Wikipedia.

[@rayvickers3934]

I have never annealed before so these questions may seem redundant to some...after firing when do you anneal the brass? Before or after sizing the brass? How frequently should you anneal you brass? After 2/3/4 firings? I shoot .223 and .308. Thank you!

[@hornadyloader7574]

Hi Ray, I know some reloaders who anneal after every firing but personally I only anneal my cases after 3-4 firings. I've always felt that a single firing/resizing operation doesn't work-harden the brass enough to cause an issue. Your mileage may vary. - HL

[@rayvickers3934]

I definitely have some brass that I have fired up to 40 already...might be a good time to try some annealing. Do you anneal your brass before you resize the neck/shoulder or after resizing? Most of my cases are fired formed and I neck size. Should I anneal before the neck size?

[@rayvickers3934]

40 actually means 4x :)

[@hornadyloader7574]

Hi Ray, usually I'll deprime the brass, then anneal it before running it through the wet tumbler. If you're going to use a vibratory tumbler, you can anneal it first without depriming. Just make sure those primers are actually spent. - HL

[@hornadyloader7574]

And yes, anneal before sizing.

[@williamfield4056]

I read that quenching is part of the annealing process, but you are not cooling them in the video. Is it not necessary? I personally feel it would not be but I am a novice.

[@longBowHunterII]

no quenching in annealing , cool in air

[@timtapio7779]

I guess as I get older I appreciate life more, I sure wouldn't have a flame pointed any where near a pound of powder as this shows...

[@hornadyloader7574]

Tim Tapio That's not powder, that's a Folger's coffee can that I use to store cases. The can in question holds 223 Remington cases made by Winchester, hence the big label on it that says, "Winchester 223"

[@rumsin300]

Very good video!! Thank you! Do you have to anneal the same brass over after every reload or one time anneal and multiple reload on the same casing?

[@mastalee1776]

how intense does the torch needs to be? also annealing commercial brass for reloading, how much more will the brass last vs not annealing?

[@hornadyloader7574]

+mastalee Hi, You need to adjust the torch so that the cases are annealed the right amount. I can't really give you an intensity level, you just need to experiment with it. As far as how much longer they will last, it depends on the manufacturer, but I've been getting about double the use out of mine when I anneal every 3rd or 4th loading.

[@newwavepressure6478]

so how many times should u fire a case before u have to anneal the case

[@michaelhoran955]

I,m going to look further into this.

[@Prepare2Survive]

I wonder if 357 magnum brass can be annealed using their 300 BLK kit.

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Prepare2Survive Possibly, although I've never really attempted to anneal pistol cases. They don't get work hardened as much as the bottleneck rifle cases. Might be useful for 357 Sig but they are pretty short.

[@mastalee1776]

will this annealer anneal other sized brass like .308, 6.5 grendal & creedmore or other rifles sized brass? from the looks of the machine it seems it does not. thanks

[@hornadyloader7574]

+mastalee Out of the box, the Annealeez can anneal cases from 223 to 30-06. They also have conversion kits available for larger calibers and shorter calibers. Check their website for more info on the conversion kits. www.Annealeez.com.

[@constitutionrulesgotrump2168]

I am having a problem loading my 223 with the AP Press. I have always used Accurate powder. A friend recommended Hodgon Vargent. My powder drop does not like it. I can not get consistent weights. And I get a lot of spoils that spill when I raise the ram. And there is very little in the cartridge. And some times I load it and get spoils and the cartridge all the way to the top. Help I have done everything taken it apart adjusted it to the point it was bulging my rounds! Then I kept backing it off till I stopped bulging getting a perfect throw. And still inconsistent loads and spoils. It is expensive powder and I don't need it on the floor. Any Help You are your Readers and watchers help would be Appreciated.

[@cldrake328]

Constitution Rules Go Trump I use Varget for my deer rifle, 30/06. I use CFE223 for my 5.56 rounds, it measures much better and way more consistent. The Varget works great but my powder measure doesn't like it either. I have to rotate very slowly.

[@onebob10]

Odd that a 'product review' is filmed on the exact same work bench, with the same bench full of stuff that the manufacturer has in his demonstration video.

[@hornadyloader7574]

onebob10 Actually, the product review was done first. Then, when they saw it, they contacted me and asked me to do their instructional videos. It does look odd though, I'll mention it to them.

[@fightingbear8537]

Thanks, good video.

[@gunslinger6307]

How many times can you anneal brass cartridges and how often do you anneal your brass ?

[@hornadyloader7574]

+Gun Slinger Hi Gun Slinger. I anneal mine about every 3-4 firings. I always anneal my once fired stuff just to make sure all my brass is at the same starting point. I know other reloaders who anneal their brass every time they reload it, which is a bit much IMO since one firing really won't work-harden the case very much. As far as how many times you can anneal it, it really depends on how long your brass lasts. Annealing will prolong the life of your brass though. I've read forums where people claim to be using their brass for 40 to 50 firings which, IMO, is way too much! Before I started annealing, I usually got about 8 to 10 firings from each case. With annealing, I typically get 15 to 20 firings before I start to notice wear, cracking, splits, etc. Remember, annealing will help the neck and shoulder area, but the case will still experience stretching due to chamber expansion so make sure you always inspect each case. It really depends on your brass as to how many times you can use them. Some brands/lots last longer than others. Thanks for watching!

[@gunslinger6307]

+HornadyLoader Thank you very much for your very informative and prompt reply . I ordered the annealeez and it arrived today so your reply to my question could have not come at a better time. Love your videos, please keep them coming and thanks again for your input. Long live the Republic

[@keyfa9051]

I got one, but very poor quality, I asked them for return, nobody took care of me.

[@greggminkoff6733]

1st, NEVER quench your brass. You are reversing what you just did, tempering or hardening the brass. 2nd, The hotest part of the flame is directly in front of it. Adjust your distance. 3rd, Buy your self an infrared temp gun. As the brass leaves the flame, get a reading. Never more than 600-625 F. Then you're done. 4th, Annealing 380, 9mm or 45acp is a useless waste of time. The case design was never designed for more than 1 reloading. Those that believe differently probably love playing Russian Roulette.

[@RetrieverTrainingAlone]

Based on research by Annealing Made Perfect, annealing did not occur at temperatures up to 660F for 1 hour,,,,at 750F for 1 hour, neck was annealed from the original 135 HV down to 117HV mid wall of case neck . For flash annealling, .223 cases were annealed to 1000F in 3.4 seconds.

[@grumpyoldfart7302]

Dirty brass shoots just as well as highly polished stuff. I fire all straight wall cases, and get 10 to 15 loadings. Annealing is hardly worth the time for me.

[@mastalee1776]

also how do u know if it's under annealed?

[@hornadyloader7574]

+mastalee Generally, you use the discoloration to determine the extent of the annealing on a particular case. If the case isn't discolored at all, it may very well be under annealed. It takes some practice and experience, but you'll get to the point where you can tell when a case is over or under annealed.

[@TheGeorgiaGunCorner]

Do you have a 300blkout? If so you may be able to cut the over annealed brass.

[@hornadyloader7574]

Benjamin Mckenzie That's a brilliant idea, but alas, I do not load for 300 BLK at the moment. Someday...

[@hornadyloader7574]

Benjamin Mckenzie Hi Benjamin, After thinking about your suggestion for the last few days, I decided to pick up some 300 Blackout dies and some tools to convert the cases. I'll be doing a video on it in a week or so. Thanks for the great idea!

[@TheGeorgiaGunCorner]

Awesome! I hope you come love the cartridge as much as I do. The .30 bullet and .223 casing are a marriage made in heaven. Making new 300 AAC blkout casings from old.223 casing are a great money saver and super easy to do. My first attempt had only 4 rejects out of 200. Low recoil with a good punch make it a great starter round for kids or disabled ole' farts like ME!

[@SM-cg2dc]

For $275.00 it should auto ignite... lol

[@89tonstar]

From what I understand annealing is a complete waste of time and energy and money. If you think about it, every time a cartridge is fired it is exposed to extremely high temperatures and pressures, warping and forming the brass to your chamber and keeping the brass in a state of maliability. Why would you need to re expose it to the same environment? While there can be an argument made for consistent neck tension for most shooters, as in 99% of them this is a non issue as the availability of fresh new brass as a reloading component means that you will never need to be in a position to keep your brass in a fresh state. Once it is loosing its softness, throw it out. This probably wont happen until long after your primer pocket looses its ability to hold a primer. Idk to me unless someone can show me scientifically collected expiriment in a controlled environment, ill put 200+ dollars towards more reloading components.

[@hornadyloader7574]

There's so many things wrong with this that I simply don't have the time to write a book about why it's so wrong. I suggest that you read up on all the experiments that have already been done and what annealing is. There's tons of info out there on the subject.

[@sorryociffer]

It's such a waste of time that Lapua factory anneals....as do several other notable companies. It is NOT needed every loading.

[@fishrrelaxing9361]

For those that actually load to real pressures you will never see a primer pocket loose tension before the neck splits. If you’re reloading 1/2 power plinking ammo then maybe. Annealing is a must when resizing to a different caliber. There is so much stretching going on you can split a new case never even shot. Annealing will also keep your dies fresh as they are working softer metal. Dies don’t wear out from excessive use.. they wear out from working hardened cases that have not been annealed. I save the cost of the machine in dies every year because I anneal. I also get double the case life saving me a ton of brass. I have a Headstamp that are 10 plus years old and still going strong.. it’s also a huge benefit to those smashed mouth cases that are a 50/50 on if you can reshape and save them or toss them.. I anneal them and am able to save 90% or better of smashed cases normally thrown out..

[@paulstucchi549]

@@hornadyloader7574 thanks for posting this. I likely got mine at the same show and run it just like this, for all my annealing of bottle neck brass. Also .30 carbine. I don't bother with my .45 acp. Those I just reuse until the mouth splits or pocket loosens. .45acp is such a low pressure load the cases last for a long time without any fuss or concern on my part, at all. Competition use since the 80's and never once an issue during a match. I find any bad cases during case prep, very seldom actually. 9mm and other hotter stuff maybe an issue, but not .45acp. Maybe I'll see you at the VG&H club some time!

[@Gundog55]

Making 300BLK from .556 annealing is a must because when you resize the brass some head stamps harden and actually spring back to a smaller size than .762. Annealing before resizing prevents that shrinkage and annealing after softens the neck to the desired state.