What if Anne Boleyn hadn't been executed?

Ever wondered how history would've unfolded if Anne Boleyn had dodged execution?
In a thought-provoking exploration of counterfactual history, historian Claire Ridgway delves into the intriguing "what if" scenarios surrounding Anne Boleyn's fate. Imagine a world where Anne wasn't executed by Henry VIII, but banished or confined to a nunnery. What ripple effects could this have had on Tudor England?
#HistoryUnveiled #AnneBoleyn #WhatIfHistory #TudorIntrigue #HistoricalConundrum
You can find my books on Amazon at viewauthor.at/claireridgway

[@BlackCatMargie]

I agree that there was never any real chance that Henry would have spared Anne, but this is the sort of question that Im sure most of us have pondered from time to time. I think another possibility would have been that, had she been spared, she would still have been quietly murdered. That wasnt really Henry's style though. The trumped up charges against Anne were meant to destroy her reputation as well as her life, and if she was murdered or 'disappeared', it would have made her an innocent martyr. No, Anne was doomed from the day she miscarried her last pregnancy. Though, if she had lived, she would have been formidable.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, I think she was doomed after that miscarriage. I think Henry felt that history was repeating itself and the marriage was wrong.

[@LilyGarden528]

I think the only thing that spared Katherine of Aragon's life was the people's love for her and most importantly her connection to the Holy Roman Empire, who could have easily made things very difficult for Henry. I think even if Henry had been merciful, Anne wouldn't have lived long surely she would befall some unforeseen "accident" or "illness." And YES I could totally see her as another Margaret Beaufort!

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

Henry did not dare to harm Katherine imo because she was a foreign born Royal Spanish princess of the blood, as well as because of her powerful Royal relatives. Neither Anne nor her cousin Katherine Howard were born Royal princesses. They were each born into nobility and Henry proved over the course of his murderous years that he had no trouble dispatching nobles, even if they did have Royal connections or even Royal ancestry!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, she was popular and there's no way that Henry could have killed her as I'm sure that would have meant war.

[@luvprue1]

Katherine had Spain backing her. Although her nephew likely didn't care, or know Queen Katherine. If Henry viii was to try to behead her, Spain would go to war on principle.

[@kel1559]

I feel that Henry hadn't experienced this situation before and that paired with Katherine's connection to the Holy Roman Emperor certainly spared her. It didn't create a situation in which she was treated fairly as concerned with access to her daughter though. Anne was his second wife who did not live up to his expectations, he felt he needed the male heir, his obsession with Anne had waned once he had her as his wife, politically she was cumbersome since Henry had no real moral or ethical compass for his own beliefs which all adds up to her demise. The reasons it was more expedient and convenient for Henry to murder Anne are numerous. Add that to the fact that she was considered the whore who had ruined the first marriage to his brother's widow and that she was a spitfire of a wife who didn't mind disagreeing with him and her fate was sealed. She had no true friends who felt loyalty for her apart from those who had no actual power or influence. Anne was screwed. The thing is she was smart enough to put all this together for herself so if she had felt that he might spare her life and send her to a monastery, it had to have been a sort of gallows delusion. I believe she would have known that. He had gone to quite a bit of trouble to put her in this frame. He made sure to break his own heart by accusing her of adultery with his best friends. It wouldn't have been as realistic and accepted had he not. He understood and so did she. I love her and hate him but I feel like I understand them both.

[@LilyGarden528]

@kel1559 Yes, Anne had no one of any power to stand on her side and speak up for her, and Henry knew this. She was his scapegoat for all the atrocities he had committed during their time together. From plundering the monasteries, to the execution of Thomas More. He made her the villan and himself the innocent victim. Being mislead and betrayed by this manipulative harlot of a woman. He sure knew how to spend the PR machine.

[@kathleenlee_author]

Such an intriguing question! I would LOVE to read an alternate history where Anne lives - is sent to a nunnery and then escapes to the continent where she artfully attempts to manipulate the Tudor court from afar. So many possibilities!

[@dalestaley5637]

Hello Claire, it's so lovely to have you back regularly. You have so much to offer us. I share your opinions on Anne couldn't be allowed to live in Henry's mind. He tried to erase her. He failed. In Egypt, a female Pharaoh, Hatshepsut's imagery, name were chiseled away from all of Egypt. The men failed to erase her. Live on, women leaders.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you, I'm glad to be back! Yes, many men have tried and failed to erase such women.

[@6falconsue]

Assuming that Henry's third wife, Jane Seymour, would have died after the birth of her child, and that child was female, and assuming Henry determined that Anne of Cleves was an unacceptable wife...but I digress. Frankly, I'm quite happy that his daughter Elizabeth became Queen. However, "what ifs" are food for thought. Great question, @Shane Flanagan, and great responses from Claire--thank you both!.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I do love what ifs, they're very thought provoking.

[@lauramason5667]

It would have been nice for Elizabeth to be able to enjoy a relationship with her mother and Anne would have been able to straighten out the mistruths told about her.Anne did not deserve her fate as didn't the other 4 men. Wonderful discussion and thank you. I would love a talk about Queen Catherine's relationship with Anne Askew and what would be her fate if Anne had given her name. I love your lectures !

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you so much! Please do email that question to me at [e-mail] so I can add it to my list.

[@ibabylei]

So late to this video! But I love this question. There’s a book series called “the Boleyn king” that did a “what if” the baby boy Anne carried in 1536 had lived. The first book in the series gives a glimpse of what Elizabeth’s relationship was like with Anne, and what Anne would be like as a dowager queen mother to her son.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Ah, yes, I did enjoy that trilogy.

[@cakt1991]

The only thing that would have saved Anne was having a living son in 1536, instead of miscarrying. And Anne would definitely not be safe in Mary’s reign, if Mary’s treatment of Elizabeth was any indication.

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

Mary wouldn't have ultimately executed her sister but I have no doubt that Mary would have had Anne accused of heresy - and condemn her to be burnt at the stake!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, I believe her fate was sealed too.

[@tamiwatchesstuff]

@@mysticalmargaret6105Yes, I completely agree. I don’t think even if Anne had to become a nun somewhere, Mary wouldn’t have cared about her being a Bride of Christ, she would have more than likely been burned at the stake as a heretic.

[@Greenplanet949]

If Anne had had a son, that son would have been king when Henry died and her uncle, the powerful Duke of Norfolk would have been Lord Protector for her son. Mary would have not been Queen.

[@maryh4650]

One thing for certain, Ann, would never have done anything to jeopardise Elizabeth's life or path to the throne by making any suspect move, here or abroad.

[@anneboleynfiles]

No, I don't think she would have done.

[@anthonytroisi6682]

Before her execution, Anne cooperated in the process of annulling her marriage to Henry. Anne probably was offered her life in exchange for her admission that she never validly married to the king. At her execution, Anne seemed to be expecting something such as a last-minute reprieve. Last minute reprieves were almost a cliche as a way of proving a ruler was merciful--- and Henry had a penchant for dramatic gestures. Personally, I think that Anne, truthfully or not, had to say that she had been married to Henry Percy and her marriage to Henry was bigamous. Anne was willing to allow her daughter to be declared illegitimate in order to save her own life. She was not necessarily abandoning her child because she knew that Henry could have restored the girl's status later. The fact that any promise Henry made was deceptive because he had already summoned a French executioner before making any requests for an annulment to her.

[@Calla-sl8gd]

Hi Claire! Nice to have you back with us. It would have been lovely if Anne had been spared; perhaps she could have been reunited with Elizabeth at some point. But there's always Henry, looming in the background, or Edward or Mary. I don't think Anne would have ever felt safe, no matter where she was. You were right about Henry. After the years of waiting for Anne and the problems with Katherine, he had no time to spend on another ex-wife who wouldn't give him what he wanted. Like you said, he needed that clean slate. I really wish Anne had been spared. But, as I've heard it said, where there has been great love, there can be great anger. Henry and Anne are prime examples of this. Thanks for the question to you and to Shane!

[@anneboleynfiles]

It would be lovely to think that Anne could have spent time with her daughter.

[@erinistheawesomest]

Another hypothetical I often think about is how would the world be different if Catherine of Aragon had produced a surviving male heir for Henry

[@kellyhansen6076]

I thought the same about Anne. What if she had not lost the boy she miscarried when Henry had his accident. Oh how different the world would have been.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, a great what if, and it would have kept her safe and secure as queen consort.

[@lesliemoiseauthor]

I'm a novelist, and the idea of an alternative reality where Anne survives in a convent intrigues me.

[@dianabutler7253]

I guess that one would have not been shut down.

[@marianparoo1544]

@@dianabutler7253 There is a great one about what if Arthur had lived. The Alteration.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Thanks so much Claire for answering this question. Very much appreciated 🙏 Yes we know it was quite unlikely Anne would've survived 1536 but it's interesting to ponder what if....... Side note, hearing Claire mentioned/reference my name in the video feels like getting a public shoutout from a celebrity lol 😂 Fangirl/boy moment 😅

[@leticiagarcia9025]

Congratulations Shane. Good question. Cheers

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you for asking such a great question.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@leticiagarcia9025 Thanks Leticia. It's like all my birthdays came at once lol 🤣 🥳

[@cw7147]

​@@Shane-Flanagan I have "what if" thoughts about Anne, Katherine, and Jane😂 "How different would England, and the world, be had Mary been a boy?" "What if Jane *didn't* die?" Etc 😆

[@Shane-Flanagan]

@@cw7147 What's the funny part? 🤔

[@dash9212]

It's so wonderful to have you back doing videos again! It's a interesting scenario to ponder and ask what if.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@musicallydisneyamvs6731]

Our views are basically the same on this subject. I also think Anne would have wanted apolitical marriage for her daughter before getting to the throne but the husband would have been a thorn in Elizabeth’s reign.

[@kellyhansen6076]

Just like Lord Darnley was to Mary Queen of Scotts.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Ah, yes, Elizabeth may well have been married off before she came to the throne had Anne lived.

[@LiamDeeley]

I love all your works both books and videos. These “what ifs” of history are always fascinating.

[@daniellemusella1594]

@LiamDeeley Absolutely! A "what if" I'd like to see explored, both here and in literature, would be "What if Jane Seymour's baby had been A GIRL?" It's interesting to imagine how Henry would have reacted to being handed yet another daughter, shortly after losing the woman we have come to know as the only wife he truly loved. The only two obvious consequences would have been A] he would have likely forced himself to consummate his marriage to Anne of Cleeves, because he would have still needed a son, and B] the new princess would not have been disinherited. Because her mother was already dead, there would have been no need for trumped-up charges and/or a divorce or annulment. The English people would have thought Henry a complete monster, if they did not already, had he decided to file posthumous charges against Jane. I wonder what other factors would have been changed. (1/11/2024)

[@LiamDeeley]

Great questions. I have wondered what would have happened if Henry’s first meeting with Anne of Cleves had gone better and the marriage worked out and she gave him another son.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you so much, Liam!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Danielle, please do email me that question with your full name and I'll add it to my list.

[@daniellemusella1594]

@@anneboleynfiles I sent a message through your website, with my e-mail address attached. (1/13/2024)

[@dash9212]

Another what if to ponder. What if Catherine had simply died before he meet Anne? And ripped the country apart to divorce Catherine. The country would be very different today I think.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, he and Anne wouldn't have had to wait so long to be married, the Break with Rome probably wouldn't have happened during his reign, and Anne may well have had chance to give him a son.

[@AITrademarket]

I’m really enjoying this upsurge in “What If” possibilities in popular culture. Provides such interesting theoretical nuances, outcomes and of course, cordial discussion.

[@vegetariansuniteworldwide8091]

Have you done a video on the descendants of Anne’s sister Mary? I found that Princess Diana and her siblings are Mary’s descendants. ❤

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes I have, thanks for asking. Here it is - kzbin.info/www/bejne/b57Ld3Zoa9OSa6M

[@mcmptn]

I've always wondered what if Elizabeth had been born a boy or Anne's miscarried male child had been carried to term and survived. Would Henry still have gotten rid of Anne, or would he have spared her because she was his son's mother?

[@lesleywilliams1210]

If Anne's male child had survived, she would have been safe. Henry would have continued having mistresses but would not have seen a need to marry someone else. He would not have begun to see his having had an affair with Mary Boleyn, in the same light as Catherine having been married to his brother Arthur. Yes, there is an element of convenience in pointing to biblical passages as God frowning on the marriage, but Henry was also somewhat paranoid, and believed it up to a point.

[@mcmptn]

@@lesleywilliams1210 It also sounds like he took things extremely literally. A man can't have his brother's wife, but even though it's the same concept, it doesn't specifically say not to marry the sister of your mistress, and besides, Jacob (in Genesis) married two ladies who were sisters, so by Henry's logic, maybe that would have meant it was perfectly fine to do the same.

[@barbarabrown733]

I love your vids and your work! It's so nice to see you on KZbin!!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you so much!

[@annabellazsanctuary]

Thank you Claire I really enjoyed this video! I never tire of hearing about Anne Boleyn and you tell so well ❤

[@lese91]

Such a fun video! I would love hearing your opinions on other topics involving history that never happened.

[@Angie2343]

She would maybe have first birthed the son that Henry wanted.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Do you mean if she had married again?

[@tonyalogan5095]

Thank you! I have often wondered this question. Glad to see you back on your channel. Love love love it!!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you!

[@paulaharris4667]

Enjoyed the video!❤

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

I'm not sure that she would have lived past the reign of Queen Mary I. I could totally see Mary having her accused of heresy and executed by burning!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, perhaps so.

[@raumaanking]

What about Cathrine Howard had she not been executed and sent away what would have happened to her during Mary’s reign

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

@@anneboleynfiles Not to mention that her younger half-brother Edward VI was well on his way to being as much of a staunch Protestant as Mary was a Catholic. Either he, or his uncle the Lord Protector (had he lived) might have had Anne dispatched under some dubious charge or another. There was no love lost between the Duke and his family and the Boleyns. Same with the Dudleys, particularly the Duke of Northumberland, who was very eager to put his young daughter-in-law Lady Jane Grey Dudley on the throne, alongside her young husband Guildford, Northumberland's son. He no doubt hoped to rule through them and I can easily see him executing Anne Boleyn, her daughter Elizabeth and of course Mary.

[@mysticalmargaret6105]

@@raumaankingAs Catherine was a Catholic, I think that Mary would have just sent her away from Court and never allow her to return. Mary disliked her but she naturally never saw her as a cause for the end of her beloved mother Catherine of Aragon's marriage and subsequent ill treatment by her own father. That understandable anger and bitter resentment she reserved for Anne Boleyn.

[@raumaanking]

@@mysticalmargaret6105 The comment during Edward the 6 reign I think Elizabeth would have been a threat to Edward the 6 just as Mary is Edward not only Protestant and Europe countries like Spain backed Mary then maybe England people who supported the Boleyn family like the Howard’s let’s just say both Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard had their annulment and were sent away I think Edward Seymour could mention Anne Boleyn if Elizabeth and her started contacting each other but if Anne Boleyn maybe lived far away from London maybe in the country then she probably would be fine as long as if she didn’t conspire against the king or got support from the people and I think not just the catholic but the Protestant probably during the year of 1547 wouldn’t have liked Anne Boleyn I think Catherine Howard name might have been mentioned because wasn’t both Edward and Thomas Seymour trying to find ways to have Cathrine Howard executed but I think she would be fine even she is Elizabeth anti I think she would probably just be singing and dancing in some exile far away from court Duke Northumberland I think their would be a mention of Anne Boleyn in court when Edward the 6 is dying don’t forget Edward the 6 wanted to send both Mary and Elizabeth to the tower so Edward did invite them but then a catholic supporter of Mary warned her so she managed to stay away same with Elizabeth I think since Edward was already dying Elizabeth would wright to Anne Boleyn and she also stays away I think Elizabeth would still back Mary now Anne Boleyn is a bit nervous and then Lady Jane Grey loses power 9 days later Mary becomes queen during her coronation both Elizabeth and Anne of cleves attend I think Mary would have straight away capture Anne Boleyn and send her to the tower then as months progressed the Wyatts rebellion happens Lady Jane Grey father husband and sir wyatt are executed Anne Boleyn name deffo be mentioned she would probably face burnt alive as for Cathrine Howard Anne of cleves name was mentioned during the Wyatts rebellion because she was Protestant and apparently “ like Elizabeth over Mary” obviously no proof of that then Cathrine Howard name would have been mentioned first because she liked Elizabeth more then Mary and plus she was after all blood related to Elizabeth and Anne Boleyn but I think Catherine Howard would be sent to the tower but never killed since she was catholic and Elizabeth would have been closer if not maybe executed herself if her mother Anne Boleyn was still alive during Mary’s reign maybe both mother and daughter might have been burnt for heresy if Anne Boleyn was alive who knows what do you think of my response in your opinion thanks for your comment on Cathrine Howard being alive during Mary reign had she got her annulment from Henry the 8 and sent away I enjoyed reading your opinion

[@blueblack3591]

Such an interesting question!

[@maryh4650]

And a very interesting answer.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Thanks

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, indeed!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thank you, Mary!

[@deeboneham2738]

This premise would make a great variation novel!

[@LeslieSunshine17]

What a great thought. We all know Anne was doomed. Cromwell could not risk Anne getting back in to the Kings favor!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, I really don't think it was ever a serious option.

[@jumaris28]

Greetings from Panama 🇵🇦 How lovely to see you Claire 😊, always bringing goods from Queen Anne , and yes we all that love her ask ourselves that question.. what if …. Certainly she didn’t deserve what she got and amazingly she still so much remember & Love around the world 🌎 ❤❤❤❤❤ 👸

[@anneboleynfiles]

Hello to you in Panama!

[@RudesMom]

There's an entertaining fanfic set in the television version of the Tudors that has Anne surviving thanks to Mary. In it, Henry quietly married Mary off when he married Anne. The bridegroom was told to keep her away from court and in the countryside. When Mary gave birth to a son and Anne failed to do so, Henry ultimately decided that a grandson would do, set Anne aside, declared Elizabeth a bastard, and brought Catherine back to court as queen. Ultimately, it was Mary that arranged for Anne to be married off to a Spanish noble (and eventually did the same with Elizabeth).

[@re_patel]

Wow, what a good story!!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Oh, I'll have to find that!

[@RudesMom]

@@anneboleynfiles The author is Lia06 and the story is titled A Better Future.

[@Story-Voracious66]

Thanks Claire, what a wonderfully educated question. Quite a poser! I certainly couldn't even venture to think how that would have played out, except that perhaps Elizabeth would never have become the Queen that she was. Always a great pleasure listening to your astute view on HRH Henry VIII's court. A funny aside. I recently heard of an internet "inheritance" scam, pertaining to the lost wealth of the late Queen Elizabeth the 11th. 🤦‍♀️

[@anneboleynfiles]

It's a great what if, but with so many different facets. Oooh, I haven't heard about that scam!

[@helpinyerdasellavon]

That's an interesting scenario to consider wondering "What if" in history. Love your insightful work. Thank you, Claire⚘

[@maggiekent7753]

Sadly Anne had to go. I think, had Henry spared her, she might have suffered the same fate as Lady Katherine Grey. Kept in the Tower of London for life.

[@raumaanking]

What Cathrine Howard if she got an annulment from Henry the 8 and Cathrine Howard was sent away

[@maggiekent7753]

@@raumaanking - sadly there was no way Catherine would have been forgiven. She had attacked his manhood by taking a lover. Plus her actions were treason. Had she become pregnant the baby might not have been Henry's.

[@sallyspencer5624]

It is the Sperm that carries the DNA deciding the Gender of a baby. The Ova from a women is just an egg. In earlier days it was thought that the women somehow decided the Gender. Thanks for your video Claire.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, that's true. Thank you!

[@daniellemusella1594]

I feel that, if Henry decided to let Anne live, he would've gone the nunnery/convent route, and there are two reasons why: 1] In Henry's mind, it would've been the biggest proverbial slap in the face to all the religious policy changes she, and others, had encouraged him to make in England. Henry never took the blame for something easily, however big or small it was, so confining Anne to a nunnery would've been his way of punishing, blaming, and mocking her. Some have speculated that, far from being an act of mercy, his choice to send a French swordsman to behead her was actually a way to make fun of her upbringing. It would've also been a subtle threat to any woman in the country, who secretly admired Anne, and considered emulating her. This does not mean that Anne would not have found a way to escape and flee overseas, with some help from friends in France and the Netherlands, but this is where she was more likely to start out. And 2] If Anne had married someone else, there was a chance she would have become pregnant. There might have been some physical risk, due to her being what that time period considered an older age. With a full-term pregnancy and successful birth would follow the possibility of a SON, and this would have been something that Henry could not allow to happen. Despite being dressed up in layers of charges, the core of everything was that Anne was being cast aside, because she had failed to birth a healthy boy. Again, Henry hardly ever accepted blame, and he certainly would not have done so with bedroom issues, as was proved by his behavior towards Anne of Cleves. Anne having a son with another man would have pointed the finger where modern science tells us it truly belongs. If she had a child, but died from birth complications, the baby's gender would have determined its fate. A boy would have been smuggled out of England, out of fear of Henry's vengeance. A girl would have likely been put to work in a noble house away from her father's, whoever he would have been, as a way to further tarnish her mother's memory. She would have also been kept as far away from Elizabeth as possible, whenever circumstances allowed. Another factor is that Anne's survival could have altered Elizabeth's perception of love and marriage. I can picture Anne, taking the "trust, but verify" approach, in regards to whatever discussions about romance they had. If Elizabeth still became queen, these conversations with her mother could have led her to take the chance she did not in real history, to marry and have children. (1/11/2024)

[@anneboleynfiles]

Some great points, and thank you so much for sharing. Yes, if Anne had had a son by her second husband then it would have shown that it was the king's problem, not hers. Interesting.

[@cecilyupdegraff2559]

I agree with you on the point that Henry had no intention of sending Ann into exile or to a nunnery. Had she lived though, both Edward’s Uncles and Mary would probably sought her out to do her harm. I don’t think she could live quietly anywhere with the majority of the Tudor court wanting her head or at least imprisoning her. I am sure Mary would have turned over every rock to find her and put her to death. Mary blamed Ann for her mother’s tortuous life, never being allowed to see her mother and her own “fall from grace”. As for Elizabeth, she still would have grown up in the care of Cat Ashley, she would never be allowed to visit her mom and may not have a close relationship. With Margaret Boughfort and Henry VII, she was unable to see him while he was in exile, but she was able to get word to him and funds, tying them together. Ann would not be allowed that. I think Elizabeth was shaped by what happened to her whole family. Her Aunt, Uncle, grandmother and grandfather were all touched by what happened to Ann. Their lives were all cut short by it and Ann still would have been at a cloister or exile. She might have lived till Elizabeth reigned, but I’m not sure she would have been welcomed at court.

[@loriboufford6342]

I concur, a great question for a fun discussion

[@leticiagarcia9025]

Yes, there was no way of Henry sparring Anne’s life. He was fed up at this point. Like you said he wanted a fresh start. I do like what ifs and alternative timelines. I can’t remember the name of the book where King George beats George Washington. No America. I also read the Man in the High Castle where the axis are victorious. An alternative timeline of the Battle of the Roses would be interesting.

[@anneboleynfiles]

I do love alternate histories.

[@wengercleopatra2150]

@@anneboleynfilesI wrote two. One where Anne survived and another series where cleopatra and Antony won

[@andrewbrendan1579]

I really enjoyed this! Very interesting to consider how history might have gone if Anne Boleyn had lived. It's a minor point, but if Anne had lived longer, maybe she would have said or written something in which she mentioned the exact date of her birth, but maybe Anne herself didn't know. Even in more recent times I had a grandfather whose birth hadn't been recorded and even now we don't know for sure when he was born.

[@susanbellefeuille]

What-ifs are always an interesting consideration. If Anne Boylen had indeed escaped the executioner’s sword her life would most likely have been one of fear and uneasiness, as there would always have been those wishing to use her for political positioning, or those wishing her dead such as Mary and quite possibly Edward. But what if Anne had produced a healthy male heir? Now that would have changed the entire historical landscape of Great Britian. At the end of the day one comes to realize that all of history is a simple twist of fate.

[@marianparoo1544]

No CC. I'll turn on the volume when I can.

[@lindaperrault8007]

I think that if Anne had been allowed to live, Elizabeth would have had a much more difficult path to the throne. Anne would absolutely have been made to acknowledge she had not been properly married and that Elizabeth was in fact illegitimate. I can't see any other reason for letting her live (and I believe that possibility very slender indeed as he had already seen the mess a still living previous wife created). Cranmer floated that to try to convince her to admit Elizabeth's illegitimacy and clear the succession for Jane's heirs. She did not do this and Elizabeth was still naturalized as his daughter from a concubine. Any such admission of Anne would have opened the pathway for Mary to declare for Lady Katherine Grey (Protestant) or Mary, Queen of Scots - even though a French Queen, she was Catholic. The council would never have stood for Philip ascending the English throne, and she only designated him as regent in her will. The question for Mary would have been French Catholic or legitimate English Protestant. I think it would have been Katherine Grey on the throne no matter what Mary had wanted. Henry's will had said that Mary Tudor's line (Frances Grey et al) were in the succession but Margaret Tudor's line (Mary Queen of Scots) was out. Very intriguing question, thank you for opening the conversation.

[@alancumming6407]

I was interested in the response give by 'AI'. Although all the answers it supplied were valid, it ignored many of the variables that make history so fascinating. For example - it's assessment of Elizabeth's character (had her Mother survived) could well be accurate. However, when you put forward your own assessment - you not only included the other factors that shaped Elizabeth's development, but did so with an high degree of empathy, which I believe is essential when attempting to interpret the past. Many thanks Claire for broadcasting this thought provoking 'what if' question.

[@Lyndell-P]

🇭🇲 What a 'great' question put forward by Shane, and I too often think "what if" about many things, past and present. As you said Claire! So many different things could have happened, if Anne Boleyn had in fact not been executed, and had survived. However what "different things" is the question, isn't it! You covered many interesting possible scenarios too! All quite plausible, but (of course) we'll never know. cont.. However! I am of the opinion, that had Anne Boleyn survived to see her daughter (Elizabeth) become Queen, that (as you suggested) Anne would have 'served' her daughter well, and been quite an influence on Queen Elizabeth I. Although (strong minded like her mother AND father) I do believe that Queen Elizabeth I would have been her own woman too! However - Would her reign have been different in any way? Another 'what if' - so something else I'm not sure of. cont.. Nevertheless! A very interesting topic - had Anne Boleyn survived. Although I do agree with you Claire, in that given the problems that Catherine (Mary's mother) had posed the King, that King Henry VIII HAD 'decided' to get rid of Anne, totally, by her death, even though I am convinced that Henry VIII 'DID KNOW' that Anne was innocent of ALL charges against her. As innocent were the men executed (including George Boleyn) too! cont.. We will (of course) never know, but a great 'what if' question put forward by Shane. cont.. So "Thank you" to Shane 👏👏👏 and "Thank you" to you dear Claire 👏👏👏 with much love (as always) from Lyndell xx 💓🫂

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Thanks Lyndell 🤗

[@anneboleynfiles]

I so wish Anne had survived to see her daughter become queen, how very proud she would have been. Her mother's memory was hugely important to Elizabeth as queen and how much better to have her mother there guiding her.

[@Lyndell-P]

@@anneboleynfiles Totally agree!

[@user-pd5zo9bq9u]

I believe that Henry offered her the promise of exile or a nunnery in exchange for agreeing to the annulment with the full intention of executing her after.

[@AimeeVignes]

Hi Claire! Thanks for giving us some insight in regards to this topic. I’d also like to explore into another “what if” question: What if Anne of Cleves had remarried after her divorce to Henry VIII and whom, upon permission of the King (and possibly of her brother, the Duke of Cleves), would she have married to?

[@joanrankin2827]

Couldn't the severe head injury that Henry had at that tournament influenced his perspective? He really had serious trauma and it caused Anne to miscarry. I think, if Henry had sat out that tournament, history would have been dramatically different.

[@nihalragaie6]

The most interesting 'what if' is whether Anne would have influenced QEI to marry and truly changed the course of history by never uniting England and Scotland thru James I. Anne for me is THE QYEEN that sits in the middle of English history..could she have shaped England beyond it's break with Rome, absolutely! Fascinating figure.

[@JennS2039]

I think the only way she really could have been spared was if Henry somehow died before her execution. Like what happened with the Duke of Norfolk.

[@lindsaywarden1746]

Also... Henry had no finer feelings with regard to Elizabeth, or indeed anyone else!. But it pleases me to think that Anne's daughter was the most successful mobarch of the Tudor dynasty!

[@Gamercatgirl5]

The saying would change too, Divorced, divorced, died, divorced, beheaded, survived. How oddly funny that would be, but Six the Musical would be completely different.

[@annfisher3316]

Intriguing 👑

[@tjwarburton]

After what Henry did to Anne, I don't think that she would want another marriage. It would also be a major step down since her husband had been a king. I don't think her pride would have let her. She knew her value.

[@timothyfreeseha4056]

More often, I think of the what if Katherine of Aragon had died before Divorce played a role in her story? Would the reformation have arrived later or not at all? In England, at least..

[@zmani4379]

My favorite movie version of this is the miniseries w Ray Winstone as Henry VIII and Helena Bonham Carter as Anne Boleyn - I read that the whole approach was to make this something like a gangster movie, and IMO Winstone's working class background is offset by the sheer vitality he brings to Henry as a kind of life force - I'm also curious about the Shakespeare play, waiting to see a more invigorating version than the stale BBC entry that was part of their remarkable 70s-80s series of Bard adaps

[@robynsjp]

Antwerp is a bit strange. In 1535, I think Antwerp was in Spanish hands. In the framework of the revolt in the Spanish Netherlands (present-day Belgium + Netherlands) protestant rebel Prince William of Orange (William the Silent) would for a time hold Antwerp, but would eventually retreat further north. But this was one generation later. And William did benefit a lot from the support from the English Queen to make the north free. That support came in the Elizabethan years.

[@vorkosigrrl6047]

First time viewer here. I enjoyed the video. Do you think Elizabeth would have married, perhaps had children if her mother was there to advise her?

[@lesleythomson5216]

I really enjoyed this thought. However, I doubt that Elizabeth would have dared to bring her back to court (at least initially). I do think that had she survived, she would have to have gone abroad during Mary's reign - because Mary hated her ( and it was mutual). She may well have gone back to France however , because she served at the French court prior to her marriage and had a friendship with the French King Francois. She was still relatively young and spoke the language fluently.

[@dianeward595]

I think that if Anne had survived, Mary would have burned her as a heretic..

[@raumaanking]

What about Cathrine Howard if she was given an annulment and sent away and was still alive during Mary’s reign would she have been burnt like Anne Boleyn or would she be fine in your opinion

[@klassicalmuzik]

I wonder IF maybe Anne had lived and seen her daughter as Queen, could she have influenced or persuaded her daughter to have married?

[@cmcg9035]

I'm not sure if in the events of these events, Mary I would have executed Anne Boleyn during her reign. Certainly Anne (or her presence) made Mary's life horrible. It would be more likely yes if Anne became publicly vocal about her religious views than for political ones. Mary tended to show, surprising for the times, leniency towards political rivals, even Lady Jane Grey. It wasn't until while Jane was in the Tower, Jane's relatives launched yet another plot against Mary (that has always seemed very naive of them.), that Mary issued a warrant for Jane's execution. Mary was closer in relation with Jane than she was with Anne though. (They were all related as cousins of one degree or another.)

[@lindawhitehead6149]

DON'T FORGET CROMWELL! Dairmid McCulloch says he was her enemy and in fact orchestrated the whole series of accusations. She had no chance of surviving between him and Henry. c

[@myladythekingsmother]

I wonder what Anne's effect on the state religion would have been had she come to court as the mother of the queen, as she was such a strong believer in reform. Would she have influenced Elizabeth's policies?

[@MsGilmo]

interesting! And I wondered if Anne had returned from exile when Elizabeth became Queen what her advice would be to her daughter about marriage?

[@kellyhansen6076]

First, I like to think Henry really did love Anne as he went through so much for her: courting her so long, separating from the Pope, divorcing Catherine, etc. I think he would have let her live IF it weren't for all the serious accusations against her. IF those accusations didn't exist, I think he would have done the same with Anne as he did with Catherine. In The Tudors, they made Henry look like he was struggling with putting Anne to Death. With all the accusations against her and the 5 men, he really couldn't let her live because it would have made him look week. This makes me think he wasn't the mastermind behind all the accusations. I don't think he wanted to believe them as bad as they were. But maybe I am just swayed to think that by the show. 🤷‍♀️ It would have been nice IF he could have exiled her to France. However, she probably would have remarried and the possibility of having another child, as well as a son; he couldn't let any man marry his former wives and have children with them. Like Catherine, he would have to make sure she was locked away. Then yes, as someone else said above, there is no way Mary would have let Anne live once she was queen. That would have been the next execution right after Jane! I agree, Elizabeth would have been a little different had her mother survived. I think the people somewhat "forgot" about Anne since she was executed. They would not have "forgotten " so easily if she had been spared and it would have been more difficult for Elizabeth becoming Queen. With Anne gone, by the time Elizabeth became Queen, the people were just happy she was a child of Henry's. I don't think they saw her as Anne's daughter then so-to-speak. I do often imagine Anne, IF alive, giving her B necklace to Elizabeth. 😍

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, I can't imagine Mary leaving Anne alive if there was any whisper that Anne was plotting.

[@maureenanglim2927]

I believe it was Henry himself who concocted those accusations of Anne's alleged affairs with those 4 patsies, and the nail in the coffin of an affair with her brother was just the last piece added to truly set the people of England against her. Henry desperately needed a way out, and he couldn't very well simply divorce her like he did with Catherine. He needed her gone for good. So he and whoever was his sounding board at that time thought up the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel and circulated the rumors and once it was common knowledge, it was done. Anne was out, and Jane was in. And as for Jane being the love of his life? Only because she gave him a legitimate heir and then died. Otherwise Jane's just a footnote. The real love of Henry's life (aside from himself) was Anne. Without Anne, Henry himself is just a footnote. Henry took on Rome, took on the weight of both Spain and the Holy Roman Empire all for Anne -- that's no small thing. He defied Heaven for Anne. He did no such thing for Jane.

[@lesleywilliams1210]

@@maureenanglim2927 yes, and if Jane had only given birth to girls and had not died from post-partum infections, he'd have got rid of her too.

[@maureenanglim2927]

@@lesleywilliams1210 quicker than you can say 'no boys for Harry Tudor'

[@raeanneparlberg1262]

If she was sent to europe i can see her returning to France. Her dad was stationed there many years and would probably have people there to assist her living near, even if she wasnt welcomed back to court.

[@LeslieSunshine17]

You should write a book!❤

[@anneboleynfiles]

Another one?!

[@LeslieSunshine17]

@@anneboleynfiles Yes! Fiction. About this scenario❤❤❤

[@luvprue1]

I often wonder why Anne thought she was going to be sent to a convent? Henry viii had gotten rid of all the Catholic houses in England .

[@Hypatia52]

I don't feel that Antwerp would have been a real option for Anne. Did she know anyone there? IIRC from university was that Antwerp was a hotbed of religious strife and a center of Protestant printing. No one who even cynically considered himself the "Defender of the Faith" would have sent her there--he did know her religious leaning. I could definitely seen him shipping her off to a convent in Spain as a delicious twist of the knife, knowing that she might not be safe outside of the convent--in essence commuting the sentence from capital crime to life without possibility of parole. Now I could see that as the beginning of a great political thriller. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that, ever since 4th grade when I read a biography of ERI for my brother to help him with his book report, I always felt as a daughter who snidely sassed her way through life, that I was a descendant of Anne's, so I am extremely partisan.

[@leaveittoweaver4525]

I think a really great question is also what if Anne would've given Henry THE son... I wonder how long they would've lasted.

[@BethDiane]

Could one try using AI or x-ray technology to read the letters? It's been used on papiri, paintings, and palimpsests, so it's probably worth a try.

[@jenniferseals3642]

I believe that if King Henry didn’t have Anne killed, when Mary became queen she would have killed her. Mary loved Anne when they were children, but grew to resent her because of the difference in faiths. Anne was very intelligent, and if she was allowed to live, she would have had a large following due to her faith.

[@clarissesimon9253]

Yes she had Jane Grey executed but her hand was forced by a rebellion in which Jane's father was involved

[@anneboleynfiles]

And Spanish pressure too.

[@UniqueInterpretations]

I don't know what would have happened with the dissolution of the monasteries. Were the convents disturbed as well? What happened to all the nuns? If Anne Boleyn had been banished to a nunnery, perhaps her stay would have been short. What to do with her then? Banish to a castle in the north of England? I suspect that had she lived instead of being executed, she and her daughter Elizabeth would have exchanged letter correspondence, and that Elizabeth, as a result, might not have been as psychologically affected in the manner she was and perhaps would have considered marriage as a monarch.

[@teresalatiolais8477]

I am a BIG fan of Anne Boleyn and I did I paper on her I think she was a little ahead of her time

[@ChristChickAutistic]

Maybe she would have been "writing lyrics for Shakesy P," lol! Hey, couldn't resist that one! For some reason I was unsubbed from you and I didn't do it. Oh well, subbed again!

[@anneboleynfiles]

Thanks for the sub!

[@glorialange6446]

I think with Henrys death Elizabeth would have been more important immediately if Anne was alive in exile. I tthink Elizabeth would have wanted to see her and would have had it arranged by someone or managed it herself if not permanently imprisoned by Mary or Edward...which I think was the most likely sceneraio. I think if she had reunited w Anne she would have been married off, leading to childbirth and possible death Speculating on her having a son... or even a daughter... would she have become Queen? I think she would have been forced to marry the next possible protestant Male heir, and He would have become King I think.

[@roseoftheenglish9127]

Her speech to the corrupt clergy folk at Syon Abbey in the December before her death probably helped to seal her fate.

[@Kazjenka]

If Anne Boleyn hadn't been executed, than her dother might have come to live with her after death of Henry VIII. Thomas Seymour would be away, Elizabeth might have got married.

[@raumaanking]

I don’t think so because Anne Boleyn might have been a bit of a threat to Edward the 6 if Elizabeth the 1 went to go live with her so I think she would have still lived with Catherine Parr and the whole Thomas Seymour story would still happen however what do you think if Catherine Howard was never executed and given an annulment what would her life be like as years progressed

[@MOVIECASTTHENANDNOW]

If henry's mother lived until 91 here Is what Will happen Her granddaughter Mary Born 6 days After her Will be her favorite grandchildren,then She Will meet henry fitzroy and her other grandkids and she would train to be strong everyday,then when henry divorced catherine and his mother asks why he will answer "i want a male son" her mother will beat him up with her can and he will say sorry to his mom and marry anne boleyn,after Lizzy was born in 1533 mary will get angry but her grandma but her grandma will teach her to be gentle and love her sister so she won't be called bloody mary,then on the execution of anne in 1536,she will break the door and let anne escape,by that time henry would want to execute his 70 year old mother and tell the guards ti do It but then She defeats all the guards and punchs henry, And henry will promise to be good,then she saw henry Fitzroy died and she will be sad,then after jane seymour died she would confort henry,then after he tries to execute katherine Howard he will order the guards to block the door of the castle and room,so when she wakes up she jumps from the window at 76 and grabs a plant and she then goes down and breaks the door and henry being like "oh s##t ,here we go again" Then his mother Will forgive him for the last time then on february 11 1546 She would celebrate her 80th birthday which was rare at the time Then She Will announce king henry and Edward's deaths And when the father of Jane grey wants her to become Queen,the 87 year old Will Say that Mary Is older so She Will take the throne and flights her father and also Jane talks to her and says" my father was bad and i did not want to be Queen that young so thanks" She Will then die on december 31 1557 at 91

[@sarahmo9708]

I dont think things would have been different. Henry blocked communication and destroyed her images. So draad of alive sfeer was still as good as dead to Elizabeth

[@dianabutler7253]

What would have happened if the convent she was in was dissolved? Would she be cast out into the street practically penniless like many nuns were?

[@wednesdayschild3627]

That Hever rose painting was doctored to make her prettier. She looks like the Nidhall portrait. Not a great beauty, but pretty enough.

[@marijadavidovic1316]

Anne was not proud or arrogant, she was acting as a queen because Henry crown her in Edvard chair with Edvard crown as a queen co regent and not queen consort..Henry readied a book from where in Byzantine queen and king co rule and divide their duty’s..one is for charity other for foreign affairs and so on..second Henry loved Anne so much, as we know from history biggest love story’s are full of temperament and jealousy and always end up in suicide or some sort of death..third he was not planing to kill Anne he was still in April working on that Anne is recognized and he planned to go with her in Calais..it was many things that make her fall, one of her lady’s who was loose said it’s nothing what shadows compare to queen..off course Cromwell found out and told the king, and king reaction was that he get white in face but he didn’t believe it, and he said to Cromwell, that he investigate but if it turns out that queen is not quirky Cromwell will take her place and be executed..so Cromwell was now forced to make a case against Anne..burgeon that moment king started to be paranoid, at tournament in Mai Norris taked Anne Handtuch that he compete for her and king abruptly left taking Norris with him..Henry at that point couldn’t compete in tournaments because of his leg injury while he practice for tournament and he saw this as a offensive towards him..and Jane Seymour? She was never a cause than a Produkt, when Anne was pregnant Henry looked for a mistress because in that time it was considered wrong sleeping with pregnant woman, that it could damage baby..so he wanted Jane only for mistress but after Anne miscarried Seymour’s saw a chance for more..Anne was victim of circumstances from all sides..and her execution was delayed at least two times, maybe Henry did have second thought because of bed propaganda, never before queen was executed..it was reported that Anne looked over her shoulder many times. ‚Maybe she thought pardon will come in last moment, we will never know

[@maureenanglim2927]

Well, here's the biggest what if of all -- What if Henry hadn't married Catherine and had married the Portuguese princess Beatriz who married Charles II Duke of Savoy and they have 7 children. What then? How would that have changed the course of English history?

[@irontaylor9992]

What if Ann did go into exile let's say she was put in prison but it wasn't her but a decoy

[@redstar7292]

Anne and George, could well have gone to exile in France. Anne was more French than English. There were protestant factions there. And the Stuarts went into exile successfully there after the English civil war. And she also could well have remarried in the reign of Edward 6th. Thomas Boylen would probably have had to have left court and retired. As his with his son and daughter still living, Henry would probably would never have trusted him. Henry also would probably have used Elizabeth as hostage or a pawn, to keep Anne in line in exile. In the reign of Edward 6th who was protestant, Elizabeth may have been reunited with her mother. I think her mother may have arranged her a marriage in France . They're could have been heirs! However the succession was meant to happen as it did. It was fate. We may not have been Great Britain without the Stuarts. And we may not have had Queen Elizabeth II, who descended from Mary Boylen..if Elizabeth 1st hadn't been the Virgin Queen. And she may not had such a great stable reign if she hadnt inherited the throne in her prime.

[@Rg-hc6or]

Trying

[@SyIe12]

👍⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐

[@heatherprice588]

Henry could have sent Anne to a nunnery.

[@dc7117]

Why didn't Henry just divorce Anne? Elizabeth would still be legitimate, well except in the Catholic community's minds. But a divorce would have been just the thing. Henry could have given Anne a settlement and a castle and kept guards there to report on her movements. Or if she were banished to Anthorpe, that could have been a good thing, too. Anne could have met someone and gotten remarried and had other children and all would have been well. People did get divorced in those days. I don't see Anne raising an army, especially after all of the things that Cromwell accused her of. No one would have followed her.

[@Shane-Flanagan]

Henry didn't want everyone saying 'I told you so' if he divorced Anne. If he divorced Anne, he would've looked stupid and it would've been like admitting that he had been wrong in leaving Catherine and marrying Anne. Henry's ego wouldn't allow that. Also had Henry divorced Anne while Catherine lived, it would've been expected for Henry to take Catherine back. Like when Catherine Howard was executed, some believed Henry would've taken Anne of Cleves back.

[@anneboleynfiles]

He'd had his marriage to Catherine annulled and it had been a nightmare for him having her still alive in the wings, so I really don't think he wanted to go through that again.

[@dc7117]

@@anneboleynfiles I know. That's the consensus. I'm saying a divorce would have been different than an annulment. By annuling Catherine's marriage to him, he was declaring that he never was married to Catherine legally, thus humiliating her for the rest of her life. He was showing his anger because she would not give him a divorce. I think he was a very mean-spirited man. He also did the same when Anne was in the tower giving her hope if she signed to agree to the annulment her life might be spared. That was cruel. He just wanted to further humiliate her during her last few days of life.

[@raumaanking]

@@dc7117 what about Cathrine Howard if she got annulment and sent away as well what would her life be like in your opinion

[@maureenanglim2927]

@@raumaanking Well, for one thing, Cat Howard was actually guilty of adultery. I still question whether Anne was.

[@Bildgesmythe]

She gave her life to save Elizabeth. No Elizabeth, no modern West.

[@barbaramobley2243]

Henry may have had to learn that monarchs aren't exempt from reasonable rules of everyday rules about life! Granted. It was a different century with iron fist rulers. Hard to say-thanks for chance to share.

[@Semper_Iratus]

She would still be dead?

[@anneboleynfiles]

Now, yes!

[@keepitsimple4629]

Joseph Gregory Hallett says Anne was not executed, but survived and produced another child, his ancestor, who eventually produced him. He claims to be the rightful king of England. That's absurd, because unless Anne produced that child with a British royal, it wouldn't be royal. So far Hallett hasn't been able to wrest the crown from the Windsors.

[@anneboleynfiles]

Yes, he spouts an awful lot of nonsense!

[@keepitsimple4629]

@@anneboleynfiles He also says George VI married a twin of Eliz. Bowes-Lyon, and therefore Eliz. and Margaret were illegitimate.

[@joannecassell8825]

Henry could have divorced as head of church...

[@Rome274]

Or what if Henry loved Anne so much he wanted to stay married to her anyway.

[@Rg-hc6or]

🤔 How about they stayed together & kept fringe for a son? If no son, likely Mary would succeeded Henry