Another Deluded Viewer Update | Was there enough space?

After many comments on my upload yesterday regarding the room on the mini roundabout, I thought I'd grab a camera and try and shed a little light. Following this and the original video the cammer has got in touch as well as leaving an amazing comment which I have pinned! Great Job!
Another Deluded Viewer - • Another Deluded Viewer
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#dashcam #roadrage #education

[@Will-it6ds]

Hi everyone I’m the numpty who posted the clips and I’m not proud of them, it’s very embarrassing to have to see them played back, I posted them to Ashley about 4 months ago when I started getting into dash cams and had not long past my test so I fell into lazy ways of going over the roundabout but would like to say as soon as I saw my video on someone else’s dash cam I stopped going over them cause I saw that I was in the wrong and if I had done everything properly and by the book these incidents wouldn’t have happened, my driving was poor and I can’t deny that but have since been working on making my driving better so would like to apologise to everyone, your more than entitled to think I’m a numpty and a idiot cause looking back at these clips ide think the exact same thing but I can’t take back my poor actions from the past so am trying my absolute hardest to make up for it now. Would also like to say thank you to Ashley for educating me as this video was a great help and will be using this technique from now on, I hope I haven’t upset anyone and wish everyone all the best. Stay safe.

[@ashley_neal]

That’s amazing Will! Thank you so much for letting me to use the clips in an educational way, and secondly well done to have the courage to leave this comment. None of us are perfect, including me but recognising where you have gone wrong and doing things to change is amazing. Keep improving, Ashley 👍🏼

[@Jonc25]

No one learns anything without these clips, well done for recognising that you could have done better. Fair play. 👍

[@Zulisian]

So much respect, stay safe.

[@frzen]

Fair play

[@MrTchou]

The fact that you posted this shows you’re not an idiot, we all learn from our mistakes, good thing you try to better yourself.

[@techmantra4521]

I love the talking points on these videos. Nobody is a perfect driver. We can always learn.

[@Aaaaaaandrew]

Just because a driver might have 'Right of way' or Priority, it doesn't automatically mean it's safe to proceed. People seem to forget that.

[@sallybilzon3507]

Yep, true.

[@Bullwinkle39]

Exactly

[@richardnicholson3912]

A green light doesn’t mean go. It means proceed if it’s safe to do so.

[@jgameruk]

the ancient saying says that cemeteries are filled with people who thought they had 'Right of way' :)

[@Stettafire]

@@richardnicholson3912 Also red also means stop if it is safe to do so. Of course that chance that it isn't safe is very slim, but that's why we have an amber light. In other words, don't go on amber like some folk do

[@andiofwbafc]

The cammers roundabout is about 15 miles from me, I've been on it numerous times, when I'm carrying straight on and there is a car turning right I always hold back a bit and use all of the roundabout to give room. When I have turned right there, I'm always very cautious and checking my left mirror frequently. I'm pretty sure I read before its a notorious collision blackspot location, easy to see why!

[@jhareng]

17 mile from me, used to be alright with just a filter to turn right into Stourbridge Rd. Vehicles on the steepish downhill have to now brake harder (now a 30mph limit against 40mph before) then now forced to a halt. Should be common sense to wonder why theres two lanes there on approach, those that want to go up the steep hill Chester Rd dont have to stop - permitting and carry their momentum. Over 20 ish years ago cars only had 50 to 100hp, even with a run up in a modern car, you know it exists. Just be thankful theres not another island at the road before thats much much steeper, my old Transit van couldnt make it up!

[@simmerdoor2722]

Some of the best advice I heard when learning to drive HGV was 'create your own space and timing'. You should be able to anticipate a problem and create a safe situation for yourself by adjusting your speed and making your intentions clear to others.

[@andyalder7910]

When the left lane has queueing cars in it there is no option to avoid driving over the roundabout to turn right, if you straddle both lanes you make no progress. The main thing in that situation is to reach the far side before doing the right turn.

[@ColinMill1]

Thank you - saved me making that exact point. If the original cammer had followed that course you suggest he would have passed behind the car he conflicted with. I think he turned deliberately early to create the issue for the camera.

[@jensaugust743]

Or if you really HAVE to cut it; atleast slow down and expect people not to expect you doing that..

[@JustOneQuestion]

In reality I would do exactly what you said and drive over the roundabout to the other side before turning. I think you're wrong about there being no other option though, if everyone drove correctly the left lane would take a much wider line on the roundabout and leave you just enough space on the inside, it's a really poor designed roundabout regardless though..

[@ColinMill1]

@@JustOneQuestion Agreed. However, with the current standard of consideration on the road I suspect one would not be able to take the correct line through the right turn very many times in busy conditions before you came into conflict with someone in the left lane straight-lining it to the forward exit with the inevitable headlights-on-kill + horn on re-heat response.

[@JustOneQuestion]

@@ColinMill1 Yea.. it's a sad state of affairs.

[@greatleapforwards]

people don't understand that defensive driving will not slow you down

[@Zeyr01]

This 1000x

[@aveekbh]

If anything, it will save time, because you'll likely arrive in a calmer frame of mind.

[@piciu256]

I'd say it depends, you need to be a little aggressive in certain situations imo. Being aggressive all the time though, only makes you angry when you can't move, nevermind the potential for danger.

[@aveekbh]

@@piciu256 - Yes, the difference between aggressive and positive driving. It's driving sharply to solve a (potential) problem, not just to get in front.

[@richd9658]

probably saves you money at the pumps too!

[@Richard_Barnes]

Thx Ash’. The main take-away from this video for me is, if we all drove around them, even though they are mini-roundabouts, a lot of these issues would not happen. 👊🏻

[@winters4960]

Question : When in junction with no roundabout, should we : 1. Drove around like there is mini roundabout ( +-90deg cut) 2. Cutting corner (45deg cut) I do choose the first, but there are advocate for the second

[@munnsey]

This is interesting. There are mini roundabouts with a humped (usually concrete) centre. This type there is usually more than enough room to turn and fully avoid touching, easy... However , The now more common flat painted only type of mini roundabout. I was told a while ago by a senior examiner that whilst you should make a good effort to fully go around them, often lack of space means you just can't. And it's acceptable to slightly touch the painted circle in this situation (certainly go over any arrows). Obviously that does not mean lazy driving cutting fully over the top. Just making a effort.

[@stephendavis6894]

I don't recall where I read it but think it was taken from the HC that if there are other vehicles using the mini roundabout that it is to be treated as a roundabout but as long as there are no other vehicles in the vicinity then it is acceptable to use it as a driveoverabout, which is why they are constructed like that.

[@EliteAlex000]

Just a quick clarification, the Highways Agency (now called Highways England) have jurisdiction and liability for the trunk road network, so basically motorways. The local roads that you are driving on in this video will be the responsibility for the local Highway Authority, so your County Council.

[@ianholloway3778]

Highways England, now National Highways also have trunk roads which are important A-roads both single and dual carriageways including some roads through towns on major routes if there is no bypass. There is no obvious way to tell just by looking if an A-road is NH's or the local county/unitary council's.

[@mrblablablabla]

Great video! Those roundabout layouts are ridiculous! Also, I just realised what draws me to your videos so much. In this day and age, especially online, it is sadly not that common to find someone explaining their point of view in a calm and rational manner, using well thought out arguments. Your videos are a very welcome exception. Much kudos to you, Ash!

[@ynot6473]

near where i live there are 2 mini roundabouts, one is slow, the other awkward. if there is nobody else near, i will somewhat straighten them, IF THERE IS NOBODY ELSE NEAR! if there IS someone else near then i take them properly. simples.

[@zoomosis]

I think we've all done it when there's nobody else near. Same with not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. Far worse is where people make a right-turn into a street and cut the centre line. Often the streets where I live in Melbourne have a raised divider and Keep Left sign to stop drivers doing that.

[@tomhayden9672]

@@zoomosis assuming nobody is near for a Stop Sign is often exactly why the sign is a stop sign and not a Give Way. Check out the video by 'Things You Might Not Know' (Tom Scott) entitled 'Why this British crossroads is so dangerous.' I'll never roll a stop sign again.

[@Old_Man_Pete]

To all the deluded viewers complaining about the previous video, it's a ROUNDABOUT, you go around it and not over it.

[@FROOB202]

To all the deluded viewers regurgitating this talking point, someone you pull out on going over a mini roundabout does not absolve you of all responsibility as a driver

[@Banglish123]

So why is it paint and not bricks and plants

[@andyalder7910]

They're often painted as replacements for T junctions and the road isn't physically wide enough to go around the centre circle. 99% of the cars on the one near me straight-line it although I just saw someone avoid the painted circle completely they drove onto the kerb though.

[@fluffyfetlocks]

@@andyalder7910 they're like this so busses and lorries can still use the road.

[@andyalder7910]

@@fluffyfetlocks I misspell buses too but I think your reply was for someone else?

[@justamanchimp]

Ashley, fantastic point, especially what you said coming to the end about appreciating how your speed affects other drivers. And how you pointed out that the cammer "steamed" in to the situation instead of dealing with it. I've been trying to explain this to people for ages and you just demonstrated it perfectly! I intuitively understood this whole mindset from day one of driving and I rarely meet drivers, even good ones, who understand this. It's really frustrating. I think there needs to be a big change in how driving is taught and you should be the guy to do it!

[@andyharpist2938]

Thanks to Ashley Im very very careful of roundabouts. staying left or staying right is equally dangerous. Bullying is rife and Im simply very very careful. Watching on the blind sides always.

[@dennisphoenix1]

Ashley one thing you could do a learning point is when doing a U turn on a Rab , sometimes cars waiting to join will see you coming around the Rab , after seeing where you have come from and assume you are taking the last exit . If I need to do this I go slowly with the right indicator on and be ready to stop if someone does pull onto the Rab in front of me . The only person that knows that I am going all round is me .

[@rufusgreenleaf2466]

I have to say i'm glad you mentioned it Ashley. It completely annoys me when at a roundabout you see it's clear on the right but then when approaching out someone darts in from the right and expects you to slam on the brakes because it's their "right of way". Especially a blind roundabout with hedges or walls.

[@LadyLithias]

I've literally just discovered your channel and just watched three in a row. I have to say that you have the most delightful voice (and accent, I'm in the USA) so calm and soothing and such a great way of educating those who might be "listening". I can still remember, to this day the TWO times I tried to be the teacher while someone else was learning to drive. The first was a woman from France and she pulled to the other side of a double yellow (not sure that translates, but I'm sure you understand)... at a light and stopped in a lane of opposite traffic. I couldn't take it and begged to not do it. The second time was when my stepdaughter got her learner's permit. We were approaching a major intersection and the light was red. Just 50 or so feet before the intersection was a railroad crossing. Since there were two cars ahead of us stopped on the opposite side of the tracks, I expected her to stop before the tracks, but of course as a learner, she didn't know. Unfortunately it turned into a (bad) memory and she didn't get her license for another 3 years she was so traumatized. As we sat there waiting for the light to turn green, ON the tracks, the lights and bells and RR Crossing arms started to come down. Luckily the two cars ahead of us had great situational awareness and they both moved up so that our small car could squeeze out of the way of the onrushing train.... but it was still traumatic for her (and me!) to be stuck on the tracks with a train coming. Sorry to ramble. I seem to do it in every comment I make. I'm thinking it's a result of a Traumatic Brain Injury I suffered in January - the doctors here liken it to being in a massive car accident --- though it was "merely" falling down a full flight of steps and breaking my skull, back, and arm. :) See, there I did it again. Thanks for your video. Much much appreciated.

[@deancostello14]

Yep, there's one like that in Seaham, at the Mill Inn. Always hang back for people turning right so they can use the full width of the road as there's not enough space for 2 cars on the roundabout despite their being 2 lanes. It's easy when you think about it!

[@dougscott7079]

I agree with everything you say, in theory. I'd still cut that roundabout at busy times, but unlike the cammer I'd lower speed and minimise the cutting. You just can't rely on lane 1 drivers to make room. Waiting for a gap is sensible, but there's too much risk a lane 1 driver will accelerate through and close this gap while you try to use it. I hate cutting mini roundabouts, but you can't assume other drivers will be competent/considerate, so occasionally you have to do what is least dangerous - even if it's "wrong". It's probably the local norm there to cut from the inside lane. You have to be very, very careful of going against local norms as regulars on the route won't expect it.

[@TheGrinningSkull]

Agreed on this. You've captured the thoughts nicely on this case.

[@mcgherkinstudios]

I agree. I think on balance it’s more dangerous to move left into the space that the left hand lane is expecting to use even if it is clear when you commit. Looking to go, prepared to stop.

[@andyuk2010]

Just posted exactly the same before I saw this! Agree - there's a perfect world and then reality. This is one of those situations where imperfect driving is likely to result in better and safer outcomes

[@LITTLEbigREG]

Just because thats what the local idiots do doesn't mean you follow suit. Try driving in Bradford and you'd believe you were driving in Islamabad.

[@dougscott7079]

@@LITTLEbigREG ​ My point is that you may increase your risk by going against the local norm, not that you should just blindly follow the herd. Of course anyone has the choice to not cut this roundabout. If they have a prang, though, I'd imagine the insurance will rule it a 50-50 at best.

[@robindowse4473]

Totally agree with you that there should not be 2 lanes merging into a single lane on a roundabout. Mini roundabouts are usually just shoved into existing t junctions or crossroads to solve a very minor problem and then often cause major ones.

[@rjds1800]

I see this scenario on so many dashcam videos. Especially roundabouts. Ashley is spot on, take the time to observe and drive at a speed where you can stop. I ride on two wheels so I have to stay vigilant all the time and read the road ahead to avoid most potential incidents. I watch these videos for education and to improve my riding.

[@PauldeVrieze]

Reminds me from a motorway river bridge from my youth (at least 200m long). Originally the bridge was built as a two-lane bridge. It was "upgraded" to four lanes. But there was no barriers between the opposing lanes, all lanes were narrow and the middle 2 especially. No surprise it was accident central (as well as the top spot for traffic jams). Locals would always just use the outer lane(s). Smart lorries would straddle, because those that didn't would get passed by people with a deathwish (and of the reduced speed limit was unreasonable)

[@adrianbishop8510]

Ashley, this is a great video - however, each time you approached the roundabout, the camera was focused on you in the car then cut to you doing the move after the effect. I’d like to see how you actually approach the double lane situation of the mini roundabout. I have the same issue with a small roundabout here in Broadstairs that has double lanes on the approach and I always take it slowly with a staggered approach/exit. I often take up both the lanes on the approach and turn into the right hand lane on the roundabout because there is no room at all to do what you suggest (in following the lanes round). People on the left just don’t follow the same approach and just head in a straight line, effectively cutting into the right hand lane I’m in. For reference it’s where the A256 crosses over the A255. I’m approaching the roundabout from the A256, Dane court road is on my left, Vicarage Street is straight ahead and I’m turning right into Broadstairs Road. It would be super helpful mate if you wouldn’t mind redoing the video but with a bit of clarity on HOW you are approaching the mini roundabout with a double lane. Thanks 🙏

[@Bullwinkle39]

I could not agree more with your points in this. It costs nothing to slow down and wait your turn but it does ensure everyone goes home at the end of the journey

[@haunter4708]

There’s a normal (in fact fairly large) roundabout local to me but one corner of it is rather tight with a railing on the outside kerb and a cobbled “run-off” about three feet wide along the inside edge of the roundabout. It requires quite a bit of caution to navigate this particular section two abreast. Whenever I find myself on the inside (right-hand lane) I tend to make use of the cobbled strip to make sure I’m allowing lots of space. (Ashley, you may be familiar with the roundabout I’m talking about-Moreton Cross on the Wirral).

[@JurivonStolzenberg14]

Agree. Speed and position , even if signal on by mistake in wrong direction , is important to show intentions. Once it took me half an hour to work out that my indicators on trailer of truck had been working the opposite of tractor unit ( service engineer connected wires wrong, and we trucker usually just check hazards - not indicator left and right separate , as it shoul theoretically be done) , so I carried on my journey with using hazards on every lane change/ turn to make other drivers think and observe 😂

[@analiensaturn]

Thank you for the parallel parking tip. I tried it yesterday in a Ford eco and a big vectra estate. It worked perfect everytime. 👍

[@martingreen2633]

Spot on chap...... It doesn't take much to put it right

[@trialsofavirus8749]

2:24 is a good lesson for us to, using the horn to let any potential oncoming traffic, know of your presence. I will be using that 1 myself from now for situations like that.....

[@Gunship416]

I have to agree with your original thoughts and also what you’ve demonstrated here as a follow up. I think your point about drivers not going around a mini roundabout but cutting across happens on larger roundabouts as well. Lack of lane discipline. There’s many dashcam channels showing this. The trouble is once that roundabout gets even smaller with even less room around them the lack of discipline seems to become even more enhanced and the added fact you can drive over them and completely ignore the fact they are even there as was demonstrated.

[@eddiegremlin]

The whole point of mini-roundabouts it to facilitate passage for larger/longer vehicles that physically cannot go around it. Initially they were only flat white painted spots on the road the same hight as the other road markings.

[@meh276]

There are several mini roundabouts near me that are actually painted off centre, meaning there is literally no option but to drive over them. Well, I suppose you could stop on the roundabout and reverse to get around the turn. They are literally that tight. Dealing with them is good, going around them is good, but sometimes there is no option due to poor road layout.

[@TimRsn]

Generally layouts like that are to ease congestion at busy times. If the traffic usually builds up and is stationary at that point the additional lane means cars turning right don’t get stuck further back. Using roundabouts as an overtaking opportunity is madness.

[@Humungojerry]

it seems like the point of the two lanes is to allow somewhere for right turning vehicles to stop and allow those going straight to go past, as turning right you’re more likely to have to give way

[@eddierainbow]

best tip I've ever had is to treat driving like walking around a supermarket. People stop in front of you, cut you up, slow down in front of you etc. imagine if people employed the same level of emotion in a supermarket as they do on the road?

[@simonpage9980]

I'm really liking these --- made me re-think my attitude when driving --- I'm not perfect But then nobody is However Ashley's views helpful to me 🤗 Excellent video AGAIN 🤗

[@pirateadam3686]

Good point. If I haven't got enough room to filter, it doesn't mean I can ride on the pavement. Drive to the situation.

[@beeurd]

I know this area, and that junction is a pretty busy location at peak times as two A-roads are meeting there. It's always been a dodgy junction, but I believe the turning lane was already there before it was converted into a mini roundabout, although that was probably about 20 years ago now and before I could drive so my memory of it is hazy.

[@Grahamvfr]

I totally agree Ashley on the pointless/dangerous 2 Lane approach (even on small physical rbs) especially when ahead 2nd exit is 1 o'clock ish, and some drivers take the the right and some take the left, bringing cars in contact. My personal opinion on small roundabouts is one lane approach, one lane around roundabout, peel off in order.

[@ProzYYnc]

I commented on the last video about this, and I'm glad you made a follow up video on it. I'm actually still laughing a bit at those two lanes (8:18)... incredible.

[@oneandonlyjaybee]

We have a hilarious mini roundabout near us. It's tiny, yet sits in the middle of a huge space which means you have to cover a large distance from the junctions to actually get to it. The problem is that one approach is from a tight cornered hump back bridge. Visibility from this side is good on the approach. Unfortunately this means people coming from this direction can see they don't need to give way early eand go over the approach with a lot of speed. If you're coming from the left of this side you cannot see anything due to the bridge meaning the only option is to edge out toward the roundabout with caution. The amount of people that nearly get t-boned by people exercising their 'right of way', closing gaps and generally not allowing for this means there are collisions on an almost daily basis. I agree with what's said in this video, some roundabouts with two lanes almost encourage a driver to cut across to give room to their left, but really we need to resist this self imposed pressure and try and be safe and sensible

[@SammyInnit]

The island with two lanes on the approach I know relatively well. The reason it's the way it is, during rush hour traffic there's always a queue up the hill on the left into Stourport, this is why it was redone some years back the way it is and generally speaking works quite well to allow people to turn right without queuing longer than necessary.

[@williamfence566]

Over 35 years ago my father told a newly passed son ( me ) that 50% of driving is anticipation . 50% is consideration. I'm still learning but it seems to have worked so far.

[@DCS1967]

I totally agree with your point about two lanes on mini roundabouts-Absolutely pointless! In regards to the cammer’s use of the roundabout in question, if he’d started the way he did (driving over part of the roundabout) but drove around as much of the roundabout as possible the “incident” wouldn’t have happened. Rather than completely cutting the corner-Which is my biggest pet peeve! Cutting any corner is bad enough but why do people do it on blind right turns?!!

[@MotorcyclePWR]

excellent learning clip, and a great post from Will the cammer. Top man! Its so helpful when people realise their errors and work to develop further. Ashley, your points about speed are so vital, of course using the system , MSM/PSL / IPSGA are helpful to dealing with hazards safely. The other point i would raise is road users not knowing, or choosing to ignore the Highway Code. It is an offence to drive over a mini roundabout, unless the vehicle is physically too large. Rule 188 HC. Know the law, position well, approach and negotiate slow, problem solved!!

[@thromboid]

I think one problem with mini roundabouts with painted hubs is that they look a lot like a single intersection, and it's tempting for road users treat them as such. Roundabouts, even small ones, are really a series of T-junctions.

[@BRMdrivingschool]

Mini roundabout a few hundred yards from Oxford’s test centre if you’re turning right onto Hollow Way from The Slade, it’s a two lane approach if you are going right and if you attempt to go fully round the circle you will go straight into the side of the car next to you on the left, so what I’ve done is I tell my students to cut the circle but keep the outside tyres around the circle. Had no issues with it on test as I have known loads of people have failed on that before.

[@chillired5389]

It’s in my view that we should always drive ‘proactively’ and never assume another driver will do the correct thing and always expect the unexpected and incorporate that outlook into our own driving We’d like to hope others do the right thing but we must allow for those who don’t and adjust our own driving accordingly

[@ImLeeeeeeeeee]

I go around them normally with ease but there is a mini roundabout where I live similar to 8:22 where it's two lanes in and two lanes out - the destination I'm driving to means I need to be in the inside lane as there's a second roundabout to turn right which is where I need to go. It's always a busy roundabout and going around is very often not an option as the left-laners go straight. Such a poor design choice on these tiny ones, especially with how big some cars are getting

[@lazyfishing2919]

BIG FAN! passed my test in 2017 in Staffordshire but this guy has taught me so much keep it up matw

[@davidsonkeith8465]

Thanks Ashley. Also a factor to bear in mind is the "This is how the locals always do it!" These videos are very helpful and important for the needed ongoing education and self appraisal of our driving.

[@Dave-bu6bc]

I noticed you using your horn on that bridge. It's worth being aware that boats passing under a bridge often also use their horn to inform oncoming vessels of their presence (one long blast as required by "colregs"), so if you hear a horn it doesn't necessarily mean there's another road vehicle coming. It's not a massive issue but worth knowing about because it occasionally confuses drivers, occasionally confuses boaters.

[@keith6400]

Mini-roundabouts with two lanes on approach with insufficient space for two size lanes have some advantages. Firstly where there is a tight space drivers slow down. Secondly by arranging drivers into two lanes on approach means if they do not signal you can see where they are intending to go. Drivers tend to queue not line accurately behind each other but half out/half in and when they get to the "Two lanes" section near the roundabout right turners in the right hand land have to be careful not to squeeze drivers in the left lane negotiating the roundabout. The right turners may have to put their front wheels onto the circle to avoid squeezing but must go around the circles as far as is practical. The highway code advises this for large vehicles. This can be a normal sized car if the space makes it impossible to avoid driving into the painted area. What you must not do is drive straight over the roundabout expecting everybody to get out of the way or going fast such that the speed is the problem not the size of your vehicle in the limited space. I should avoid overtaking at any mini-roundabout as this makes life a lot easier as does launching onto the roundabout in a staggered manner.

[@TheFluffii]

I drive that road and roundabout daily as I work and live in Kidderminster, there is plenty of space to drive around correctly. The camer saw the red juke going and decided to make an issue, like I see a lot on dash cam videos.

[@FROOB202]

The Juke saw the cammer coming and indicating, and drove straight out in front of them. The fact they went over the roundabout makes almost no difference to this outcome.

[@TheFluffii]

@@FROOB202 he almost went the wrong way around the roundabout not just cut across it. if he went around correctly the juke would have time to go and not hinder anyone. this is just another case of I need to prove how much of a "alpha" I am mentality.

[@FROOB202]

@@TheFluffii Not true at all. The cammer would have been maybe 1-2 seconds later if he barged into the left lane to go round the roundabout, and the Juke would still have been in the way.

[@TheFluffii]

@@FROOB202 I go right at that roundabout all the time never have I had to "barged" into the left lane to go around it. yes that juke would have ben out of the way, 1-2 seconds can make a lot of difference, at the speed the juke was going.

[@Ash_18037]

"plenty of space to drive around correctly" That's obviously not the case. What happens if you have someone on your left who doesn't give you enough room because they are heading straight on? Yes the Cammer was an impatient idiot here, but you seem to have missed Ashley's main point of the video.

[@gavjlewis]

Your example is essentially a single lane queue. The road markings are just to show intent (for safety). If you are edging to the left you are probably going left, if you are edged to the right then probably you are turning right. If the pointless lane markings were not there then people would queue in the middle. It is just to help drivers from the other direction guess where you are going when people don't bother indicating.

[@Adrenaline4real]

I usually notice with mini roundabouts that oncoming drivers don't anticipate other drivers speeds when encoraching a mini roundabout. I usually find that people that have already reached the roundabout think they have right of way as nobody else is CURRENTLY AT the roundabout. However, with a mini roundabout its always worthwile scanning and pre-judging oncoming vehicles speeds, to see if your actions will encroach on their path particularly if they are turning, and then make a decision whether to proceed across the roundabout. Many people aren't willing to slow down in the first place which only magnifies this issue.

[@rsoss92js]

People always go way too fast around roundabouts. There's one near my work that is massive and allows people to build up speed but the local council has put trees and bushes in the centre and around all the roads entering the roundabout (probably to slow down approach speed) so it's impossible to see more than ~30m around the roundabout. The short visibility combined with the high speed makes the roundabout a bit shit. I'm just glad ive got a reasonably quick car so I can get out in the shorter gaps.

[@broadsword6650]

Here’s what the Highway Code says about mini-roundabouts: “Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.” The problem with them (other than bad driving) is that they are a cheaper compromised alternative to a full roundabout or traffic lights and sometimes put at junctions where they less than ideal because it is deemed too expensive to use other solutions. That leads to drivers being forced to either make extreme manoeuvres to use them correctly or to drive over the central roundabout. That breeds bad habits that carry over to all mini-roundabouts. Drivers get used to clipping them, so they do it all the time regardless of the layout. Bad design + bad driving = danger. Also, note the part about avoiding U-turns. Clearly in cases where the roundabout is tight and there is other traffic a U-turn would be inappropriate, but in other circumstances it is fine and probably safer than performing a U-turn in the road.

[@toxictony4230]

Funny you should say that about U-turns on mini roundabouts. I know of at least 2 of these where to make the exit you are mandated to do a U-turn to complete the manoeuvre. One's in my home town and the other in Ironbridge.

[@PrakTaKillZ]

In NZ our local mini-roundabout has had a cross of 4 rubber judder bars installed in the centre, it works great against speedsters

[@hozzer68]

My big gripe is a roundabout with 2 lanes signed straight on or no signage for lanes at a roundabout and then the exit has a merge into one lane or just one lane immediately at the exit, why not just have one lane for straight on.

[@ganrimmonim]

When I could still drive, I developed epilepsy. I found mini-roundabouts difficult. What I found very difficult were double mini-roundabouts could we have a video about them?

[@neilholmes8200]

They can be tricky yes, the route I passed on (2nd test) has a tricky hill start and a double mini roundabout all within 5 minutes, and I had to park on the left in the meantime. Then about 5 minutes later you have the joy of a country road which narrows to one car wide just as it approaches a busier road where you have to turn right I think luck was with me that day!

[@artemkatelnytskyi]

He has a video on normal double roundabouts, not sure about double mini roundabouts, but I think it'll help. Here's a link: kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5_GgZWohJZsqZo

[@andiofwbafc]

I went to Swindon once and there is 7 mini roundabouts altogether there. That was fun let me tell you.

[@derekp2674]

@@andiofwbafc that is known as "the Magic Roundabout" :) It can be a whole load of fun when there is a lot of traffic, but not enough to slow everyone down to a nice safe slow pace.

[@highdownmartin]

With the roundabout you’ve just illustrated, Ashley. I’d straddle the two lane lead up so as to control the traffic behind so I know I have the room to negotiate it properly . as you point out it’s all single lane anyway. The white markings could easily just as stupidly show three lanes; ignore it all

[@LITTLEbigREG]

I agree. People might not like it but it's the safest way to get round something like that with how poor the layout is.

[@Gopher31]

A large roundabout near mine just got new road markings making every entrance only suitable for one car. Initially it did annoy me and will sometimes slow traffic but it might be the best move considering general roundabout behaviour.

[@tommyxx55]

The only time I can actually think having 2 lanes on a mini roundabout is on a T junction, approaching from the bottom branch as the left lane would be only taking the First turn and the right lane would be taking 2nd or 3rd exit. I've never really thought of it before, thank you for your insight

[@jcskyknight2222]

I think the idea for two "lanes" on mini-roundabouts like that is to encourage better / clearer positioning on the approach, aka trying to fix peoples driving with road markings but perhaps causing bigger issues.

[@spectrumwalkingtours]

In that situation I would think about straddling both lanes to entry, this protects from behind and maybe a more natural angle to go around to avoid confusion from onlooking motorists.

[@ryanbarry7670]

Great update Ashley, you have voiced my same thoughts when I was reading the comments. Also, I see you've had a fight with a door on your right middle finger? Looks painful!

[@CED99]

It's been that way for a long time

[@ryanbarry7670]

@@CED99 oh!

[@keith6400]

7:10 Mini-roundabouts on two way roads, one lane in each direction often have two lanes for a short length just leading on to the roundabout. I think this is to speed traffic flow. Two cars can go at the same time from one of the roads or nearly at the same time. How this works is that traffic in the left lane keeps left while circulating and dealing with the junction. Traffic in the right lane next to it can go around the roundabout but will need a slight incursion but probably get their front wheels round the island 100% or 80%. At this time oncoming traffic is giving way as you are coming from their right and crossing in front of them. The collision issue only occurs where the right turner cuts the roundabout significantly at a time the oncoming traffic decides they can get across first. Both of these problems can be avoided by oneself if you do neither of those things. It also reinforces which way traffic will turn by having different lanes of vehicles some of which might not bother to indicate. More usually this arrangement is found in town where it is a bit busier and space is limited.

[@markwright3161]

In the dashcammer's example with the 2 lanes I think I would have possibly gone over it but I would have stayed left as far as possible (meaning only the offside wheels would go over the white) and I'd only turn where I would be had I been able to fully drive around. At a minimum I think I'd go slower if going over it more, like you'd do turning into a tight T junction.

[@DaveKitsonBiotoho]

Another great video. I’m always surprised by people who cross a mini roundabout with their near side wheels on the wrong side of the roundabout. Do those skinny dual lanes help to inform if a driver is planning to turn right, rather than straight on - when they are not indicating?

[@TheGalifrey]

DVSA actually state that only the nearside wheels need to go "around" a painted mini-roundabout as they are there for priority and traffic flow and many vehicles cannot go around them hence why they are painted.

[@mannie7028]

I was taught back in 1980 that lane one is straight or left and lane two is right only. This covers the exit.

[@ericgraham7026]

I live in Milton Keynes which, for anyone who has visited, would probably agree that it’s a fine town to drive, cycle and walk around. However, because of the fast road network we have, many people drive like they’re on a race track. But the point I want to make is concerning road markings. Many a time one will find that the lane direction road markings do not agree with the signed lane direction markings! This can cause all sorts of confusion and hazards. Lastly, the most ridiculous markings we have and they are at most fast two lane dual carriageways, is the introduction of a third lane (yes - not wide enough!) approximately 10 metres before the roundabout, masquerading as a filter lane. Not only is there no need for this (a filter lane is only worthwhile if there is enough room to filter a number of vehicles into it) but it causes dangerous bunching allowing vehicles to come into very close proximity immediately before the roundabout. At this point, for many drivers, all their attention is focused on entering the roundabout and not at all on vehicles in adjacent approach lanes. Another totally unnecessary introduced hazard.

[@maxximumb]

Mini roundabouts, they exist because it's cheaper than making a proper roundabout, moving kerbs, etc. In a few cases there is a lack of space, but the majority exist because of money.

[@hippophile]

The two-lane approach roundabout needs to be bigger if there are traffic flow problems. If not, there is no reason to have two approach lanes.But there is one in Reading where it does makes sense, as the roundabout is a bit larger and at peak times for traffic it allows slow moving traffic to pass through quicker. But at other times you do need to be careful. At another mini roundabout in Tilehurst the positioning off-centre of the island means it is physically impossible to turn right on it from one direction (of three) without going over the roundabout itself. The design is peculiar and encourages (indeed forces) crossing the central island. Not a fan, but if there are no accidents you could argue it works well enough (locally) as a weird kind of calming measure, but still encourages a bad habit...

[@huwprice881]

Hello Ashley, thank you for the channel, lots of thought provoking videos. At the second mini roundabout on this video, you indicated right on the approach, to let people coming from your left that you were taking the second exit and to give way. I’d do the same (I’m just an average driver, not a professional). But I would also manual cancel that right indication as soon as I passed the first exit, and indicate left to show my exit, and to show to people coming toward me that I’m not going right around it. Am I wrong to do this? I just find it frustrating when people indicate right and continue to do so as they exit a roundabout, leaving me as the approaching car unsure as to their intensions - are they taking the next exit, or going right around the roundabout? Thank you.

[@CED99]

Thanks for the follow up Ashley

[@matthewwhittenham7528]

I agree the cammer should’ve handled the situation much better, by not “steaming” on to the roundabout as he did, and just holding back to mitigate the mistake of the Nissan. But I really don’t think there’s an issue with that particular junction. It seemed as though the lanes were wide enough on the approach for 2 cars (unlike the one in this video), and it’s perfectly acceptable to drive over a mini roundabout when there’s not space to go around it (large vehicles often have to do this, as do normal vehicles even on very small mini roundabouts). Nor do I agree that merging is the solution, as I don’t think people travelling straight ahead would predict you were going to do that, and it would be pointless to given you would then immediately turn back away from the space you’ve merged in to. I think sometimes, common sense has to prevail over technicalities like this. Personally, I would have approached and emerged a lot slower than the cammer , travelled in a straight line over the mini roundabout and maybe travelled a bit further forward than the cammer did before steering right. This would have enabled slightly more time to see the oncoming Nissan and take appropriate action to mitigate their mistake. As Ashley said, it’s up to drivers to deal with these situations, and when things aren’t clear - use common sense.

[@stephen579]

There is a mini roundabout in Totnes at the Seven Stars Inn that many drivers cut across, what surprised me was a comment in the local newspaper from the police who seemed to suggest that it was ok to do so, but more than once I have ended up driving side by side with a driver who has cut across,

[@jimg492]

Massive thanks for this video Neil. I think the golden rule here is as follows. If you are approaching a mini roundabout wishing to turn left, take extra care in being prepared to give way to others (and go around the roundabout, obviously). I'm not sure I agree with your comment on the two lane approach by Highways Agency. This, can be very useful as far as road positioning. Lets say you are one of those who decides not to indicate at the roundabout. The two lane approach almost filters you into the correct position. This in itself will indicate to other road users approaching the roundabout, of your intention. Obviously we should all indicate our intention but a good many persistently dont.

[@stuarth540]

Hi the clip in question, by the looks of it, 2 lanes onto a single lane roundabout, I agree that speed was also a factor, but I still say that some of the road marking should be more obvious ie lane dividers on the roundabout to show drivers there is enough space but I still think there isn't enough space for 2 vehicles. Its one of these situations you need to actually see it to belive or understand the road layout.

[@davidrumming4734]

I have a painted big dot roundabout with insufficient space near me. Even in a polo or golf, or smaller, people in the right turn lane can’t go round the oversized dot without going to the left (and bumping into what is in the left lane). Since they made this dot bigger some 10y ago, I have never once seen people in the 2 narrow approach lanes take it in turns to navigate the roundabout. Even if you try it, someone will scoot down the side of you - usually at speed and they will expect to keep going without stopping....and due to their speed, if they have to stop, it’s an emergency stop. Everyday it’s the same at this roundabout. When they updated the design, they made the lanes more narrow on purpose-leading to a very wide, and totally unused pavement area.

[@GaffaTV]

Have they "squashed the bump" of these things over the years? I seem to recall it almost being on a fairground ride if you did go over the middle but these days they seem to have almost no bump on them at all...

[@another_day4783]

some still have the bump

[@skapunkno1]

I'm not 100% sure but think some are flat for larger vehicles.

[@UnseenMenace]

I think you hit upon the most important bit right near the end. Any time you're approaching a potential obstruction (junction, parked vehicle etc) you should be going slow enough that you can stop if you need to.

[@garyodriscoll3009]

Im so pleased you do these vids ..can you teach them what one long beep on the horn generally means ..spoton fella

[@stephenhill8790]

There's a mini roundabout near me is offset for some bazar reason if you want to turn right from one direction you have to do a u turn and then turn left just to make a right turn it can confuse people seen a few near misses here, when turning right it is safer just to cut over the roundabout

[@07kenbird]

This is all getting down to basic road design. As stated those small round-a-bouts are barely 1.5 car widths wide. So yes, they should be only 1 lane. The one at 09:30 with the straight ons probably can accommodate 2 lanes in and around BUT the operators need some on carriageway guidance; a white line. Normally, as more a cyclist than a car operator, I am not a fan of painted only bike lanes, but they give car operators guidance/suggestions to give carriageway space for bikes. I believe the 09:30 round-A-bout is wide enough for a painted line to delineate that maybe it would be a good idea for the left straight on operators to move further left to accommodate the right turning operators.

[@JBobjork]

As a bus driver I can say that there are roundabouts that are to small. For a bus. Not so many here in Sweden but I drove through one yesterday. No chance going around so carefully turning left, treating it as an intersection was the way to go. But with a car you can go around.

[@alicelangford2903]

I live near that island, it's in Kidderminster, Worcestershire, and that particular roundabout is dreadful to drive around. Everybody drives over it, all the time, I always drive around it, but I always get beeped at for "cutting someone up"... It's so infuriating, I hate using it. That left hand exit is also horrific because barely anyone use it, so people always come bombing along straight over that island, assuming nobody will ever turn right into, and if I'm visiting my sister who lives up there, I always have to stop on that island, because I know the person coming straight over won't stop... It's a horrid island, honestly.

[@peterball8241]

The highway code acknowledges some larger vehicles may not be able to go around these mini roundabouts and need to go across them. It would be interesting to see some accident statistics from these junctions, and/or some cctv footage of what normal traffic really does and how many drivers do go around/across.

[@dakerbal]

"No vehicle is to proceed past the [mini-roundabout central] marking in a manner, or at a time, likely to endanger any person, or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident."

[@ColinMill1]

This raises almost as many questions as it answers. What, if in order to go around the roundabout from the right lane clear of the central marking, one moves left and in so doing forces someone straight-lining the roundabout from the left lane to have to deviate left (to the path they should be taking). This would seem to be in breach of this rule.

[@dakerbal]

@@ColinMill1 Nope, this section only compels drivers to GIVE WAY if they cross the central marking, not that it is prohibited. Crossing the central marking is regulated by: "A vehicle proceeding through the junction must keep to the left of the [central marking], unless the size of the vehicle or the layout of the junction makes it impracticable to do so"

[@ColinMill1]

@@dakerbal I don't think this addresses what I'm talking about. In the scenario I'm taking about the central marking is not being crossed by anyone.

[@dakerbal]

@@ColinMill1 As said in the video, this would require you to exercise due care. In this situation (with two lanes and inadequate room) you can cross the central marking but must give way to other vehicles. If you dont cross the central marking and merge to the left you must exercise due care and attention for other vehicles on your left.

[@ColinMill1]

@@dakerbal Rule 188 covering mini roundabouts states "All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so." There is no mention of the layout of the junction. Can you please give a link to the provision you initially stated as it appears to be the wording used in the provisions for give way lines in the Traffic Signs Regulations and not for mini roundabout centre markings

[@iljacole61]

We have these types of tiny round-abouts in Belgium as well. They never have 2 lanes and they always have, like, a small tree or a flower patch surrounded by cement on it. So, there's not actual way to cut across

[@aNiTF3]

That's a normal roundabout in UK, these are different as they are designed to be cut by large vehicles.

[@05Rudey]

This is why I watch these, not to call the driver in question a numpty, it's to learn and keep learning about driving disciplines that disappear a short time period after passing the driving test.

[@MrStreetboy80]

Even going around a mini roundabout properly you have to expect oncoming cars not stopping, some people don’t even realise they have to give way!! I have mini roundabouts I use everyday that they never give way, in fact someone done this exact same thing to me about 20mins ago, just slow down a carry on. On day these people who don’t want to stop will Meet each other on a mini roundabout and a lesson for them will be learnt lol.

[@jamesvdv0]

I am never tempted to force my perceived right of way on roundabouts and particularly mini-roundabouts any more. I used to when I was younger and inexperienced. However, over the intervening years I have calmed down and also learned (from incidents involving friends/associates) that insurance companies nearly always treat accidents on roundabouts as 50/50.

[@goingnow3691]

Hi from Australia where the road rules are similar to your rules, but have small differences. One thing that does not change is the philosophy of the "Right of way" rule. Right of way is a thing that cannot be taken, it can only be given. The practical application of this is - if I am driving down the road and see you coming from my left I must take all precautions that you are going to give me right of way. If you stop before you encroach on my roadway and I hit you, you may be 100% at fault, but I still have a wrecked car and me and my passengers may be injured. So I would rather keep my car and my health. If I see someone approaching from my left I am preparing for an emergency stop until that car slows or stops and allows me to proceed. I may not actually slow down, I may be able to continue on (and in most circumstances, I would expect to do so) but like a Boy Scout I am always prepared.

[@PedroConejo1939]

I encounter a mini-roundabout with a 2-lane approach on my commute and I have to turn right at it. It's even tighter than the one in the video at 8:24. I deal with this by straddling both lanes to prevent anyone from trying to force through into a non-existent gap (it becomes non-existent because I steer around the circle, not across it). The whole setup is made worse by the traffic approaching from the right being hidden from view until the last second - and they have priority over me. The ones who 'steam' straight over or worse, cut the circle to turn right are a real problem. Thankfully, it doesn't happen too often and as Ashley says, keeping the speed down helps with avoiding collisions. Of course, the whole thing could be improved by taking a hedge cutter to the laurel that blocks the view. If google like a good'un, you can find the original rationale for mini-roundabouts - it was to slow people down in order to reduce risk at crossroads and T-junctions.

[@flybobbie1449]

If you come to the Kiddy junction with right indicator going, folks the other way usually stop, like i have done many times, because traffic on the other road pull out, knowing you are going to stop and give way. If you haven't been to the junction, you cannot appreciate the dynamics.

[@PalladinPoker]

My only "incident" was on a two lane mini roundabout. It was raining, I was going ahead and there was a line of traffic at the first exit waiting to turn right. I went around the roundabout at about 15mph but as I was passing the first exit an SUV came out at about 20mph and turned right from the left lane without looking. As soon as I touched the front brake the motorbike hit the deck. I had no chance of avoiding it, the car emerged from behind a van at point blank range so my options were overbrake or headbutt an SUV. When the roundabout was repainted 6 months later, lo and behold it was single lane.