Anti-Racism: The Solution or Part of the Problem?

[@danstewart2770]

John McWhorter is an intellectually honest and morally, and physically, courageous voice on matters of race in America today.

[@danstewart2770]

@Sir Lane Please help me. Where did go wrong in my assessment?

[@CChissel]

@Sir Lane when you try to look at something objectively, you have to do your best to remove your bias when doing so, so speaking objectively would probably make it seem like he speaks about black people like he isn’t one, but does not mean he doesn’t identify as one. Though I am more interested in his work on linguistics, I do not know enough about his views on race to say one way or another, just throwing out a biased opinion.

[@aaronfarkas6890]

@Sir Lane ....as a 72 yo moderate Democrat and Jewish white man, thanks for your comments. It’s good grist for the mill. With due respect, please cite; in which news article/interview, did McWhorter refer to Floyd’s murderer as merely “mean”, or Trump “Archie Bunker”...also, with due respect, is there any “intellectually honest black man “ out there, whose views you respect?...or, are you that angry with all black intellectual conservatives who challenge your views about white supremacy, under the guise of, either, they’re not “an intellectually honest black man”, or, “in order to sell books” Putting your anger aside - and with a calm perspective - if you would... what about black intellectuals like, Thomas Sowell? ...Shelby Steele? ...Glenn Loury?.... Walter Williams?....are they really that dishonest due to ulterior or biased motives? Oh, come on, give me a break! In case you respond impulsively - not judging you if you do - and presuming you’re an intellectually honest black man yourself, I’d appreciate a thoughtful and respectful reply to my questions. May God bless you and your family with an abundance of good health, joy and peace of mind in 2021. Stay safe.

[@collecktivfashion]

@@aaronfarkas6890 Amen

[@nickmagrick7702]

the only one you've heard of. There are others, but the media has done a marvelous job of making sure they can't grow their reach further than it already is. I highly recommend Bret Weinstein from the DarkHorse podcast. Theres others as well but I like him the most. Tulsi Gabbard is a great person to listen to as well, she unfortunately has distanced herself from the politically correct identity madness though. Kinda out of necessity

[@brandonsmith1277]

Ibram X. Kendi's refusal to accept Coleman Hughe's invitation and even respond to join this panel is not all surprising.

[@jmathies78]

Just like Robin D’Angelo refusing to go on msnbc with Mcwhorter a few months ago. Then sending Micheal Eric Dyson instead. And Nicole Hannah Jones refusal to engage honestly about the 1619 project. You think ppl who claim to be so passionate about their work would want to and be able to defend it. But I have yet to see any of them be willing to engage with anyone who is critical of their work and/or claims. It’s thoroughly frustrating!!

[@benkakanfo1577]

What does he have to gain though? He plays to a different audience.

[@MattyIce7178]

Jon Mathieson they know they don't have to debate, because the media is enabling them. They just go on friendly shows and push out their narrative unchallenged. Meanwhile the same news outlets mock, dismiss, or flat-out ignore those with opposing viewpoints

[@VoxMachina8]

It is what performers/charlatans do.

[@daffyduck4674]

@@benkakanfo1577 He could at the very least put his case in a less embarrassing manner than Bailey managed. It’s pretty hard to contradict Glen Loury’s view they’re a bunch of empty suits when such poorly formed arguments are put forward. It’s not the stuttering, it’s that he seems incapable of a fully formed and coherent idea. Put along side the clarity of thought Foster and McWhorter put forward its simply cringeworthy.

[@tmsphere]

As someone with a stutter who's deathly afraid of public speaking (and little else) Isaac was inspiring even tho im much more in John's position. Some of us are harder to understand but we cant rly do anything about it except to speak through the stutter & ppl react how they react.

[@TS-ee7jx]

Anti-racism is fighting racism with racism. Definitely a part of the problem.

[@nickmagrick7702]

we have to be more racist than the racists to make sure we get rid of all the racists Plus racism coming from those who typically experience racism balances itself out so that theres no racism on either side. Thats distributive property and thats just math

[@jescowhite3708]

@@nickmagrick7702 talk about an inability to recognize reality and the inability of pattern recognition

[@nickmagrick7702]

@@jescowhite3708 talk about someone who doesn't get the heaviest levels of sarcasm available. I guess I went so overboard it became believable again. Talk about the inability to recognize the patters of exaggerated descriptions

[@smarterthanyou2255]

@@nickmagrick7702 I'm concerned that you can be that ridiculous in a sarcastic way but we live in a world where tens of thousands, if not millions, truly believe that kind of stuff so I couldn't read the sarcasm

[@rabbiaphillip6229]

well said, surprising more intellectuals don't use that definition

[@donedying2936]

John is a voice of reason.

[@SkeletonModel91]

He was the only one who made any sense in the discussion. He is cut from a different cloth than most people.

[@slider292]

Reminder that Kendi charged a public school district $20K for a 45-minute Zoom call.

[@Nevila-v7n]

Wait what?? Is this 100% legit????

[@slider292]

@@Nevila-v7n therepublicanstandard.com/fairfax-public-schools-pay-20000-to-ibram-x-kendi-for-one-hour-talk/

[@Nevila-v7n]

WOW!!! Well, I guess Kendi is saving some black lives , himself !! I wonder if his personal policy of ripping off public school is racist or antiracist, considering there is no in between , as he himself would declare?

[@slider292]

@@Nevila-v7n I'm not sure who's more offensive: someone who would take that amount of money from a public school, or someone who would authorize that expenditure.

[@Nevila-v7n]

@@slider292 that’s a great point !! Very very sad!!!

[@jtropp]

Would never make fun of a stutter. But the combination of the stutter with the obvious lack of focus and depth made this impossible to listen for more than 10 minutes.

[@thetshirtblog]

He should be allowed to edit his audio.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

Yea it was beyond painful. Ironic how bad arguments are so easily seen thru when not presented well .

[@daniferris980]

His struggle getting through his statements, the two variations of how he uses the words "uh" as a space filler and "ah" that seems to be more of a bold forced interruption. An interruption that looks like he is also trying to fight back I think he may have a slight form of tourettes which manifests itself as a vocal tick. My ex had a severe form and the vocal tick she had was the hardest thing for her to be able to surpres where the physical movements could be semi held back, when she switched insurance providers and the new one would prescribe her branded meds instead of the generics her vocal tick would makes conversation almost impossible, and stress, frustration, nervousness would exacerbate the situation. He says he is. Astutterer but I don't think it's a stutter I think he's got a vocal tick.

[@lahaza6515]

@@daniferris980 I was thinking the same thing. It definitely sounds more like a verbal tick vs stutter.

[@iAmTheSquidThing]

I may not find Issac's arguments very persuasive. But props to him for at least being willing to debate this stuff. And for not wishing to force his beliefs upon others.

[@mcrazyweirdom5690]

I can barely understand him with all the "uuhhh"'s when he's talking.

[@jamesrobertson8522]

I need my ZOOM

[@BloodRaisin]

I really respect everyone on this call for their honesty and especially John. It felt like Bailey’s stuttering was an elephant in the room and John addressed it respectful and honestly and it felt like the tension left and everyone could express their opinions honestly.

[@swcordovaf]

Dr. McWhorter and Mr. Foster are so thoroughly sound in their rationale thought as well as they are emperically sound. It is obvious they understand this at ALL the levels and not just the sound bite level which is where the country's conversation is right now. The multifactorial/nuance nature of race or even the absence of that factor, is already beyond the thought of the national conversation.

[@stanleycross6000]

What is "empirical" about their responses If there are many ways to be Black?

[@neomonk5668]

Calling anti-racists and woke people enlightened is pure Orwellian horror.

[@godzillamegatron3590]

Time machine type? Or war of the worlds type?

[@neomonk5668]

@@godzillamegatron3590 the 1984 kind. “Authorities” telling you evil is good and good is evil. From their session, telling people discrimination is fine if it helps people they believe it should. That’s the same argument that white southern racist democrats used to keep black people down.

[@godzillamegatron3590]

@@neomonk5668 oh. That why people are rebelling and burning down the machine , and with some buildings.

[@neomonk5668]

@@godzillamegatron3590 the people burning down cities and threatening others are actually on the same side as the people in this video. The people in this video pretend to be educated and more enlightened than others, and the left blm+antifa use violence to keep others in line.

[@godzillamegatron3590]

@@neomonk5668 well you said we are in the 1984 movie. In the people rebell against the state. I think . It been a while since I seen that movie.

[@bunangst8415]

As I heard John put it so eloquently, the harsh, “Filter,” of critical race theory has jumped from academia to the mainstream and negatively impacted American culture.

[@dommerdom]

I've got to say it's a little disheartening to see how uncharitable people are being in the comments section regarding Isaac Bailey's stutter.

[@saml8136]

Yes, ridiculous. Like we all know how we should act, but we choose not to. He can't control it, and he's well aware. No need to point it out ad nauseum. Also, I'm sure we're all well-poised to critique because we're all perfect orators, right??

[@diranshouse7061]

It's his ideas that are poor. His stutter got him both derision from a few idiots and lots of sympathy from many.

[@AcmeRacing]

To the whole panel: THANK YOU. An honest examination of CRT is immensely valuable. When Michael Eric Dyson debated Jordan Peterson, his counterargument amounted to grunting derisively followed by an ad-hominem attack on Peterson as a "mean mad white man." I'm hoping that these smart people who are immune to charges of "White Fragility ©" might be heard through the noise.

[@larreye8451]

I watched 94 minutes of this video and have no idea about the politics of the interviewer, in other words very well done Denesha! It's not easy to lead such interviews with these different opinions.

[@SvenErik_Lindstrom3]

She really did a great job!

[@jthomasstthomas]

Thanks for hosting this and big shout out to Denesha for doing such a nice job of moderating. Really well done.

[@SvenErik_Lindstrom3]

She really did a great job!

[@flydubs792]

Is this Issac Bailey’s Dave Rubin moment? It’s one thing to banter in ones own mind or on Twitter. It’s another world to hear oneself against others with fully formed ideas.

[@aaronkindsvatter9470]

Issac, as someone who often holds the minority opinion in the room, I really appreciate you showing up.

[@eric7436]

I sympathize with Isaac’s stuttering. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to cope with it. That being said, it would benefit the listener if some of the stuttering was edited out. I find it very difficult to follow some of his arguments.

[@jacobbritton7359]

I completely agree and I have a stutter (did speech therapy for two years). There are ways to work around it and make one's words sound fluid, despite many difficulties. Nothing but respect for Isaac though!

[@ricardocima]

@Ash Ner Yes, it didn;t sound like a regular stutter. more like a speech pattern or something. Just like Camille Paglia saying "ok?" after every sentence.

[@sivacrom]

Excellent forum. I love this format. I only have two criticisms: 1) The final fact check was, in my opinion, straw manned. John McWhorter said that for every black person killed by police, there's a white man killed by police under similar circumstances. They fact checked him to say that black men are killed by police at higher proportions. But McWhorter was NOT saying they were killed at similar proportions. His assertion was 1-to1 white vs black police killings. The fact checker was percentage of population vs percentage of police killings. That's a different analysis. 2) Isaac Bailey needed another advocate in his court to defend Kendi/DiAngelo-style Anti Racism - and I say that as a viewer who is solidly in McWhorter & Foster's court.

[@monember2722]

Black men are not killed at higher proportions. They are killed at lesser proportions than white people and lesser proportions than their encounters with the police would suggest

[@jasminehouston-burns1691]

Honestly the numbers are so small for both, at least insofar as unarmed shootings, that it's hardly relevant. However Loury, McWhorter's discussion partner, does address this discrepancy of proportion and his answer to that observation is that black people are more frequently involved in violent crimes. We experience more poverty, and more crime tends to happen with impoverished area. That's how he answers that issue. That doesn't mean we ARE more violent as a people, but I think people are afraid of that particular explanation because they think that's what it means. Another issue is that the number one cause of death for black males 15-34 is homicide. This sheds startling light on what is the violence in our communities and it's not the police doing it. Statistically I think that for any race, white black don't matter, that should homicide be committed, that it's someone if the same race about 96% of the time. That's not unique. What's unique is how often we are dying by murder. Other ethnic groups do not even remotely share those statistics. We have to have a conversation about the violence with our community in a way that isn't fantastic, in a way that can clearly discuss the agency we have in perpetuating it without assuming that means that you're "just blaming black people." The conversation about race is often so fantastic and out of step with facts.

[@hassanusmani5069]

I feel bad that the other side is straw manned a bit by this ill equipped gentleman. Mcwhorter was class as usual

[@0r14n583lt]

Don’t feel bad. They’re strongest advocates refuse to debate and defend their positions.

[@moloney55]

True though I find Kendi vapid in his substance he at least can present himself eloquently. There is a weird part of me that suspects Mr Bailey was purposely presented for that side of the argument to make attacks on those ideas seem like punching down.

[@robtul1294]

Charitable phrasing. He seems practically lobotomized. The two very articulate debaters opposite only makes it all the more stark.

[@PeterProf7777]

Focus on love. Then you will manifest it. If you focus on anti-racism, you will manifest racism. What you focus on, you create.

[@therationalguard7935]

According to anti-racist theory the NBA is racist for not having proportionate representation of Whites, Hispanics and Asians. The selection process is systemically racist.

[@63rambler66]

sexist, ageist, and ableist too!

[@Cng215]

It is and the racist whites owners should change it but their money is more important

[@Typhus-th6ud]

No according to crt that's not racist but anything that's majority white is racist. According to crt no matter what non whites do or say they cant be racist and nothing can be racist against whites

[@therationalguard7935]

@@Typhus-th6ud I was referring to Ibram X Kendi's theory on Anti-Racism. It differs a bit from CRT.

[@johnjohnson-hz5si]

When is anyome gonna label prisons as sexist since they mainly imprison men? Equal time for equsl crime? Nope

[@saiello2061]

I liked this conversation. 'Lightweights' or 'heavyweights', all make useful contributions. For those pointing out Bailey's stutter, this is a painful affliction. The best you can do is to cut the man some slack and make the effort to tune it out 🤔. Kendi's refusal to participate shows the true weasel he is. McWhorter spot on as usual.

[@Dehmigaahd]

Agreed- a little patience to hear the points is all we need. At least he showed up. His speech impediment is less an issue than Kendi’s intellectual one.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

I was there for 20 years until I one day got too sick of it, along with the societal response. Yes, it is a choice. Might be a hard one, but it is a choice.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

@@Dehmigaahd oh I disagree. The treatment that he gets (bad), and will get until it puts the stutter to bed, is light years beyond the tiny fraction of truth within the massive fraud of what Kennedy’s philosophy is just cannot be understated. My guess is that is whole identity and self image really revolves around this stutter, as it’s obvious he has embraced the victimology of it. It can be overcome. Plenty of great people have shown us, and me personally

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

@Pablo Lasha If this is directed towards me, it’s badly directed. I simply stated the objective reality of the situation. Maybe blunt given most people’s tender thin skin, which is already starting to fundamentally play a detrimental role in our country which is apparent to anyone that’s willing to be 100% objective. I said what was true. However many people don’t want to hear what’s true. This has been shown clearly present thru out history and the present is no different and there will ultimately be a heavy price to pay for such false and shallow virtuosity and cowardice. Cheers:))

[@rabbiaphillip6229]

Baily's speaking is not a stutter it shows a slow gathering of thoughts and getting the right words to express what he wants to say. Anyone who is to be behind a mic and be representative of a position in culture should take the time to get speech therapy to be able to do the best job

[@Muonium1]

I love how the "fact checkers" think they "got" McWhorter at the end there with those dime store statistics but he was allowed to come back with a righteous b slap of ACTUAL facts (though he said percent when he meant times, I think, wrt the poverty stats).

[@dirksilver]

And also, I don’t think the fact check actually addressed what he was saying in his original comment. He wasn’t saying there was a one to one killing of whites to blacks, but rather was saying that for every publicized/political/unjust killing of a black person, there’s a near identical case of the same thing happening to a white person. Not the same things.

[@RodeoJesus]

@@dirksilver Exactly. This "fact check" was a straw-man.

[@philibusters]

@@dirksilver That is how I understood the point. His says that when the cops kill a black person there is an immediate assumption race was a factor. His counter point was that for most of those killings, you can find a case with similar facts involving a white person where we don't assume race was a factor Therefore he questions whether the assumption that race is a factor is justified just based on the race of the victim without further evidence.

[@SereneBobcat]

Yes, I hope the next time they do a talk they are careful with the gotcha fact check, because no intelligent person listening to this discussion thought he meant there was a one to one ratio. We all understood what he was saying.

[@cadaankaa]

@@dirksilver I think the "fact-check" was even more profoundly off-target than noted here. McWhorter said that for every black death by cops there was a near identical white death that is not talked about. That is a statement that is not even hinged on "proportionality" at all. The "fact-check" even acknowledges there are more white men killed by cops which is 100% consistent with what McWhorter was saying. The so called "fact-checkers" are essentially changing the subject entirely, but subtle enough that CRT proponents won't detect it. McWhorter responds by acknowledging the proportion difference as if it had ever mattered to his point, but brings up many well known, and easily observable counter-points to that which the fact-checkers chose to ignore.

[@BradfordHills]

At about 1 hour 15, kmele Foster had a great argument. He and John are great thinkers.

[@L8Rome]

For your next webinar I recommend asking Adolph Reed to join. I think he would bring a really strong perspective from the left on these issues.

[@MahatMagandi93]

@j4s2v1 They aren't 'left' left. John strikes me as center-left based on his policy prescriptions for addressing the issues facing black America, but he's a liberal. I thought Foster was a libertarian, correct me if I'm wrong. Reed on the other hand is a leftist, that is, he's anti-liberal and rooted in the Marxist tradition.

[@jimhatcher9513]

From what I've seen of Adolph Reed, he would be great on a discussion like this.

[@tmsphere]

@@MahatMagandi93 Reed is what liberals deridedly call “Far leftist”. & He would agree with John on many of these points (tho not all).

[@aaronkindsvatter9470]

Really appreciate this debate. I learned from each of these thoughtful persons and I am deeply grateful for this video.

[@lizobasuke8765]

John and Kmele making so much sense as usual

[@dledge1080]

Poor John, having to waste his time with these lightweights.

[@everythingsawesome]

Kmele and John are both heavyweights. Big time. Each is hugely intellectual. The third gentleman works through a stutter, but it's not his stutter so much as his ideas that I don't think land right. But love to all and everyone.

[@ricodelavega4511]

he's just trying to expand his KZbin imprint. He and Glenn are now doing patreon subscriptions to their content.

[@philibusters]

No reason to hate

[@edmey]

Kmele Foster (note the spelling of his first name) is a very bright guy. However, anyone that appears on stage next to John McWhorter suffers by comparison. McWhorter is a brilliant communicator.

[@bronxkies]

I wouldn’t classify Kmele as an intellectual light or heavyweight (I listen to his podcast weekly and really enjoy it). He’s just a dude lol. He’s a particularly well smart and well-spoken dude. But he’s literally just a dude lol.

[@danh4724]

This was an unfair fight for kmele and JOhn, someone get these guys some better comp!

[@stanleycross6000]

The interesting thing is what McWhorter and Foster miss (in that both of them seem insulated.) Their outlook is valid if a bit narcissistic, but, I liken their approach to driving a car in a crowded city: the inside looking out is a lot different than what may actually be going on out on the highway. In other words sometimes what you don't expect happens. (I won't comment on parenting kids for the real world.)

[@johnandert1611]

I agree. No disrespect to Mr. Bailey, but I wish Mr. Foster and Mr. McWhorter had some more challenging counterarguments.

[@cobrastriesand7693]

If I turn on a basketball game, and there’s a guy with no legs rolling around, it doesn’t mean he’s unathelic or lazy or anything else, but it does mean the game is unwatchable.

[@thesilverfish]

Thank you. I was about to work up an analogy but don't have too now. The organizers post modernism/moral relativism bias does not allow them to differentiate between speakers who can be or can not be comprehended by human ears. Post modernism values not making a basket as much as making a basket. Stunning and brave.

[@mikegray8776]

Some excellent points made, as you might have expected - but would I be the only to feel that the ‘fact-checkers’ might need to reconsider their brief ?? By all means investigate ACTUAL STATS that are quoted - but not necessarily just regurgitate the closest thing which turns up on a Google search. Both Kmele and John were rather gracious at the idiocy of both these interjections, which did NOT correct anything which was actually said !!

[@stanzavik]

They HAD to know this guy sounded like this. Surely there's someone non-self-subverting on the other side who can stand up to McWhorter or Foster

[@ancientfuture9690]

John's response at 51:45 was golden.

[@mauricehumphrey545]

Kmele Foster is the man! John was his usual effective self.

[@larryensminger2005]

The last fact check was not checking what John said. They should listen more carefully and objectively. On the other hand, correctly fact check what John said would require a more than the limited time they had. That in itself is possible prof that John was correct.

[@Josh-rn1em]

In the end, are you judging people's character? Or is race etc the most important part to a person?

[@evanprinsloo6412]

Good to know rationality hasn't left the planet completely.

[@honestjohn6418]

Great respectful and constructive conversation had by all though. Wonderful work

[@johnnywatkins]

Great conversation would have liked another person defending the anti racism side as it felt a bit two against one at times, but over all very interesting

[@lew7907]

Yeah, I agree with 90% of “the two” but it seemed unfair. Would have been good if the invited guest would have shown up.

[@martenscs]

@@lew7907 religious leaders really on belief and not debate for understanding.

[@lew7907]

Chris Martens I happen to be a Christian and there are a ton of Christian leaders who are brilliant. Dr Vodddie Baucham, Jeff Durban and the brilliant Physicist Hugh Ross. Check them out on KZbin. Yeah faith is central but the Bible instructs us to use the brain we have.

[@just_another32]

You again... Dude, respect!

[@johnnywatkins]

@@just_another32 :) bump

[@gg_rider]

I can say, I was fairly naive in mostly not thinking about race. Growing up in urban city. Teens in 70s. Trust people I know more than people I don't know. Used to do door to door canvassing for a home improvement salesman in black neighborhoods. Everyone was extremely warm. A little MORE edgy in middle class black neighborhoods towards the outskirts than less rich black areas in the city center. This was at a time when there was still union jobs. *I met some older black men that had more $ income per year with overtime and holidays at the factory than I earn today 45 years later*, me in semi technical work. It seems WORSE today. Def more contempt and conflict, at least online. I had no idea about attitudes. I used to stop next door to work at the gas station with a delicious sub shop, in the ghetto. Best Reuben on hoagie. Arab owners. My boss, a Black female grandmother, was flabbergasted that I would shop there. Next door to the Projects. SHE would NEVER stop there. Worst thing that happened was me *willingly* giving a dollar to a black man who asked nicely. Best was Black cashiers calling me boo. I recently spent $20 + $5 tip in a Tiano (Puerto Rico) restaurant in the Hispanic hood. I felt safe. Would I feel safe going to a Soul Food restaurant in the blacker area? No. I would have maybe tried before, but the hostility and murder rate seems too high to risk it .. especially without my own ccw permit. So that's White $$ that are NOT circulating in the Black community, due to my reasonable sensible fear for personal security. --- Another important issue: Nobody knows about the death of Adrian Walker in November 2020 or the death of Fernandez Bowman in 2016. Both of those men were associates of Breonna Taylor. They were close to her ex-boyfriend Jamarcus Glover. The body of Fernandez Bowman was found in Breonna's car. This is what started off the FOUR YEAR police surveillance investigation that led to their discovery of the trap house operation that she was running. She was never charged. Adrian Walker, you would think it would be A MAJOR HEADLINE that Jamarcus right hand man was murdered, but he wasn't killed by cops. He was in several drug busts before and after Bre died. Police didn't shoot him during any of those busts. The facts around these dead drug dealers, plus all the receipts and surveillance video connecting Bre to these operations paints a picture of the situation that NOBODY WANTS TO KNOW. Breonna did NOT "deserve" to die .. nobody really does .. but she was a significant player in operations that OFTEN result in murders and accidental deaths.

[@Michelle_Pollino]

Denesha Snell did a fantastic job moderating this discussion

[@robwealer5416]

Have worked in shelters with NGO's... the narratives floated around are generally straight out of inter office syntax of people occupying these positions. They have their origins in grant applications and funding opportunities and generally don't brook internal challenges to stats and beliefs whatsoever. (Biting the hand so to speak) They are also the first to float and apply ideas that come out of the academic consensus machine, many are harmful but have popular appeal and saleability, get funded by democratic city councils for this reason as they are seen as electorally safe, not likely to raise the ire of the press (who have also endorsed these ideas). As most work contract to contract in these environments, you will not hear a single challenge to any of ideas that sometimes have poor foundations in reality or are poorly derived in bias.

[@jimlewis4765]

First, a salute to the organizers and participants: Thank you! I noted the contrast between Isaac Bailey at 17:30 and John McWhorter at 52:00 regarding the expectations of white people. The Anti-racist is hoping to get white people to acknowledge their sin. The degree to which he needs white people to admit something or feel a certain way about him, makes his satisfaction and happiness dependent upon someone else. On the other hand, the one who has already decided in his own mind, that his skin color does not define or limit him, that he is not dependent upon what some random white man may think of him - that man’s happiness is independent of anyone else.

[@merfymac]

not everyone should be front and center on a presentation conversation. surely?

[@divineinterruption9816]

54:38 “I am repulsed by it” get ‘em John!!! Spittin too much common sense Doc!

[@chadherd7762]

I am as it happens a white male. Outside of Thomas Sowell whom I have read extensively, and Michael Eric Dyson, I have not had much exposure to black discourse and intellectualism. I find the above conversation to be incredibly interesting and insightful. I have also begun reading W E.B. Dubois and find his writing to be fascinating and educational.

[@2013lovemy]

Please fix or set up better audio next time!

[@playnejayne5550]

Even if past hyperfocus on race has led to current racial inequities, the most effective way of dealing with the situation may be to act "as if" racism were not a factor in the present. It worked fairly well for some people during Jim Crow when racism was obviously part of the structure. How would more hyperfocus be at all helpful to the social fabric or to blacks?

[@freeindeed8416]

I understand your point. It would be nice

[@saintlybeginnings]

Isaac Bailey seems to have so much to say, but the “uhs “ are so distracting.

[@Suavemcool]

He just seemed nervous to me, and he got better as he went along. To be fair, I would too to be on the opposite side of a debate with John and Kmele.

[@saintlybeginnings]

@@Suavemcool - perhaps. I couldn’t finish listening to it, but will take a look. Thing is, he is a Harvard fellow, you shouldn’t have so many uhmms at that level. My 17yr old is more aware of such filler sounds when speaking, and has mastered it already. If he wants to be taken seriously I pray he will work on this. There are stutterers & those w/ lisps that are incredible public speakers &/ or debaters, working hard to overcome the impediment. But I’ll give it another go. Thanks.

[@saintlybeginnings]

@Valkes - like Dr Peterson who often takes a moment to think out his answer and words to insure a clear response.

[@larreye8451]

It was very hard to keep focused, most important is that I see him a good person with the focus on the wrong solutions to actually help.

[@isaacweiss9322]

Starting at around 20 minutes in, he discusses how struggling with a stutter has impacted his life in an extended analogy to blackness.

[@badgerfishinski6857]

Attention young black people. Listen to Larry Elder, Thomaa Sowell, Candace Ownens, Denzel Washington , and Morgan Freeman. They speak the truth and they are ALL Black.

[@TheCapedWanderer]

What’s truly painful is John’s face while Issac is talking-trying not to show any expression because he’s really off-put by the stutter.

[@rachelk5272]

Kmele Foster needs to fix his mic but I enjoyed listening to this discussion and I’m very excited when panel with different diverse viewpoints can have a discussion giving us different points of view to consider

[@beartrapperkc]

I literally could not follow Issac at all. I tried so hard but the Uhhs and rambling just sounded like a bunch or words going nowhere.

[@beartrapperkc]

I feel bad that he has a stutter, but not sure he should do public speaking. It's just too hard to follow.

[@listener84]

I followed him. He has something to say

[@Werrick]

I like Kemele Foster, I don't know much about him but I'm pretty sure I've seen him in places like Bill Maher and whatnot and I like him and what he has to say but of the three men in this panel you can tell you the professional educator immediately.

[@ariellawaltman6693]

The subject of class was hardly broached, mores the pity.

[@Renwa82]

Kendi can't handle debate because he makes claims that have not been rigorously defended against critique. He simply deflects stating that the criticism is proof of either bad faith on the part of the critics or that the criticism itself is evidence of the rightness of his claims. He benefits from having an unquestioning following who takes his conclusion as a brute fact when it is not.

[@jonpanush3973]

Man. They look uncomfortable when Isaac speaks

[@ATMyles]

I respectfully submit that it’s not due to his speech impediment, but the content of what he’s saying.

[@diranshouse7061]

Probably both. It was hard to listen to. Even though it's not his fault. That said, his ideas were poor. Even if you remove the stutter.

[@ATMyles]

@@diranshouse7061 Agreed.

[@ProSkillsGamer]

the video thumbnail image of john looks like it could be the cover for his next album lol

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

Wow the questions of the listeners were very low resolution. Apparently they all need to go back in history, and study real facts. And not stop in mid 1600s but go further AND study ALL cultures of the world, along with the black cultures in Africa that enslaved many, many whites. Slavery was a norm all thru history and race was typically not a primary driver but sheer economics and labor needs was. The only way as a culture we will ever “arrive” at a perfect racial equity/coexistence is for all involved to understand ALL the facts and not propaganda. And this especially means historical facts as well as without that, we have no lens of which prespective is brought forth from. Without this perspective, we will just live in this current fraud which has been wrongly constructed that many of us truly believe is reality when in fact the data and facts clearly refute. Yet many still cling to a belief system versus the proven system of empirical study. But of course this takes much more effort and additionally undermines a very small (but very powerful) population of peoples financial well being and positions. This is a fundamental problem which must be addressed fiercely and currently we are doing the opposite.

[@machtnichtsseimann]

To Kmele's credit, he pushes for a greater sophistication in understanding complex problems of the human condition. Right after, Isaac then bluntly states that he is dealing with "racism" in South Carolina as a matter of fact and complaining about the challenge in persuading Whites there to deal with the problem. Well, if merely stating there is "racism", then charging Whites with not being woke because they are not convinced through simply stating there is a problem, i.e. racism, then there will perpetually be a "divide". John and Kmele are not the individuals furthering this problem, but the Woke crowd are all about this, whether they mean to be so manipulative or not. [ Take race out of it, whenever I deal with a friend/acquaintance about an issue or problem, it is good to listen and question as to facts / information / interpretation AS WELL AS ensuring they are listening carefully to me, i.e. not strawmanning my points and opinions. Whenever they have sought to control and manipulate me, it hasn't gone well. It was more of a play on their part of control and power and/or insecurity. ]

[@dgh5760]

This was painful to watch and despite the vocal disability Mr. Bailey was not very good at articulating his points. It would have been a more balanced discussion if there had been another panelist who was able to support or better articulate whatever he was trying to convey. I don't want my kids to have to "figure it out" for themselves when they experience others who don't have their best interests at heart. I want to give them the tools and understanding that will allow them to handle situations well and preserve their dignity and self-worth.

[@MackojrNBAKvideos]

I’m so sick and tired of hearing America is full of inequality without EVER providing an example of how anyone is less equal than anyone else. Discussions based on delusional victim hood are the problem. Society isn’t to blame for the failures of people. Those INDIVIDUAL people are at fault. I know this is a simplistic claim in the subject but it accurately describes it,

[@80sOGRE]

The one issue i never seem to hear thrown into the mix is economic class. Some of the systemic problems have a racial element but are primarily economic in nature. Poor white people in poor neighborhoods are moved along just as fast when some real-estate development brings gentrification. Love to see Bill Burr and Dave Chapelle do a buddy comedy movie, covering all the difficult topics, a true slice of America type movie.

[@andrewwiggin7433]

It IS the problem

[@VoxMachina8]

The comments from Kmele talking about a new approach to no longer valuing racial identity in such an antiquated way is very interesting to think about. If you hold value in the skin color of someone that accomplished something of merit specifically due to skin color of that person, then it makes sense that the burden of embarrassment for the mistakes of people of the same color comes as the other side of the exact same coin. We just haven't considered our role in perpetuating stereotypes. That's a bold, new, and interesting perspective. It is interesting to think of what's possible by eradicating any evaluation positive or negative of skin color completely. What would society be like if skin color didn't matter at all? Hmm...

[@chrisxavier1848]

Teach your children to see themselves as God sees them. Two of mine are adults now, and have not fallen for any of the folly.

[@garytallowin6623]

You fight racism with love, kindness and compassion You win in the end Fighting racism with racism is only won when one of those races is gone.. which is a horrifying prospect.

[@sunnyla2835]

Chloe Valdary has an “anti-racist” program based on love, loving oneself first, so you’re then truly able to love others. She’s amazing! I think she and Foster are working on a project.

[@nathanielfestinger9754]

I appreciate and sympathize with the hardships of stuttering, but this guy is not at all qualified to do public speaking. His speech impediment was distracting, made it difficult to follow his ideas, and significantly detracted from the value of this discussion.

[@jwf2125]

Do a search for “kendi debate”; you’ll find nothing. He knows he couldn’t defend his theories against mcWhorter, Hughes, et Al. He’s content to feather his nest and reputation by preaching to his choir.

[@gms5089]

Excellent “adult” discourse. Nuance, detail. Real-time fact-checking though? Kudos for the attempt, but it is unreasonable that fact checkers could be thorough enough in the time allotted to do the job justice. Thankfully John was prepared to respond. Hopefully this will be a preamble for 2021 as the year of reasonable discourse, because 2020 has been a complete write-off. I knew 2020 had become an ideologically-alternate universe when a very senior manager at the global company I work for got on a call with thousands of his subordinates and told them that his 18-year-old had “instructed” him on why the term “all lives matter” was disgusting and reprehensible, which wisdom he, in turn, passed along to all of us.

[@fuwasicong930]

How do you fact- check someone's personal opinion?....You can fact check statistics..." Sorry, our fact checkers have determined you are not in love, contrary to what you say"...lol...sheeple...

[@a.cittolin]

1:00:44 - Kmele Makes a point comparing Brazil to the US and their respective historical background on the subject of race. Being from Brazil I feel this split when it comes to analizing both situations. It seems like the "woke" mindset rotates it's gears with more ease over here, even if their claims still have that "why look at it through this lense" feeling to it. I consider me to be kind of woke when talking about race in Brazil. This way of thinking seems to work better when translated to a brazilian audience, but when we look at it in a US context (I try to get a diverse overview of things in the US, before making up my mind; my position on the race issue overe there resonates a lot with Coleman Hughes') it just doesn't have the same strength and grip as an argument. The difference between the proportion of black people in the population already scrambles the entire argument and this is just the beginning of the ajustments we need to make in order to get somewhere discussing the subject. Hope I am not alone on this "international cognitive dissonance" feeling.

[@kingsleyoji649]

16:30 to 16:45 Sums it all up

[@playnejayne5550]

In a sense this IS a golden moment for white people to acknowledge racism and its effects. The problem is that so many believe it's a matter of learning new vocabulary and adopting prefab analysis of our racial situation. For a lot of them, it's a matter of learning their roles in the street theater.

[@jescowhite3708]

Blatts dont like wypipo no matter what. No fancy talking or ideas will change that. Give it up.

[@Krestshinable]

26:06 - could someone clarify what he meant with the comparison of a stutter to being black in 2020? Is he is implying that it would be much more difficult to navigate life today with a stutter than it would to be black?

[@yo_its_devo]

Yes that's exactly what he meant. He said it kind of backwards but he meant that being black does not even come close to the difficulty of navigating life with a stutter.

[@Krestshinable]

@@yo_its_devo Thanks I thought so. I think that is an incredibly important statement.

[@purpleniumowlbear2952]

I'm sorry, I'm sure Isaac is an intelligent accomplished person. Unfortunately for me, I, not having especially good listening skills to begin with, could not understand large significant portions of this discussion where he was taking the lead. I envy anyone with better listening skills than me who got more out of it all than I did.

[@purpleniumowlbear2952]

Update: People are right though, he does get better later in the video. Its worth bearing with it.

[@kendallburks]

Sorry, but whether you like it or not, whether it’s fair or not, having a stutter like this drastically decreases a persons capacity to provide value in the domain of public speaking. Get a speech therapist, or if that is not helpful, resign yourself to influencing public opinion via writing. It’s very hard to see why people should tolerate this in a domain were speaking well it’s precisely the thing that is valued.

[@ATMyles]

A serious Q for anyone reading: A stutter *can* be overcome, particularly in adulthood, through speech therapy, yes? I’m not mocking this man’s speech impediment, which is unlike any I’ve heard before - more a stammer, with the “uh...” - I’m genuinely curious. One would think it would be a deal-breaker for a college professor.

[@iseektruth64]

Anyone know if Kendi has ever agreed to publicly debate McWhorter? I would love to hear such a debate!

[@divineinterruption9816]

Never, but they did have a little Twitter battle a couple days ago. Kendi was his normal illogical and incomprehensible self.

[@diranshouse7061]

No

[@iseektruth64]

@@divineinterruption9816 ...actually found a discussion they had about this question... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGnRmqCZqN-dipY

[@williamerdman4888]

Well done by everyone. I believe the facts align with John M and Kmele.....but I applaud everyone.

[@Suavemcool]

Yes, more of these discussions are needed.

[@benkakanfo1577]

Thanks for this, I would have loved to hear an academic (not poetic) argument, complete with stats and figures from the other side. The perceived vs empirical argument is.... hard to debate

[@richwhiteman2755]

They should invite Colin Flaherty.

[@mariahostetter786]

Did anyone else notice when Issaac started talking about his kids, he stopped stuttering? Wow.

[@sunnyla2835]

Beautiful. Thank you 🙏❣️

[@Trid3nt861]

Yuri Bezmenov called this "Ideological Subversion"

[@kp6553]

I disagree with Isaac but admire his courage.

[@freeandcriticalthinker4431]

Uhh? Damn man this is over the top . It really distracted from the conversation. Not trying to slam anyone here but this is what “Pre-Event” vetting is intended to prevent. There are some exercises that can be employed over long term with speech therapy that can help some of this, as that level is a pretty negative impact with conversation. This is overtly significant enough and likely deeply so instilled that you to get some help with that my friend. Remember, people judge you massively, by your speech. And humans do this very quickly and once this judgement is arrived at, significantly changing it is quite difficult. Very difficult many times in fact.

[@vaunmalone3064]

John mcwhorter is the only one who lives in the real world.

[@tteot1wph]

We need to find better people to debate McWhorter. Kendi would have been great

[@philibusters]

Kemele Foster is on the same side of McWhorter. Bailey, by contrast, does not disagree with John and Kmele's positions.

[@diranshouse7061]

Kendi would be poor.

[@tteot1wph]

@@diranshouse7061 If so at least there would be a definitive record of his ideas being trashed

[@Bornearth75]

Yes Kmele!!!!

[@rainbowthrustars]

Anti-racism in itself is never a bad thing but the way it is being organised today, mainly in the USA ,and pushed out from US to other nations, I doubt is very fruitful.

[@gloriacastro9453]

I love this guy talking because he is appointing it out that people or the media and whoever using the narrative of to be black victim to make people angry and divisive, my understanding is that he identifies as a human being not as a black. He gets it. To me who make big deal about who is not raises only raised my eyebrows. There are bad people in all races. I believe on stereo typical people who assuming things because how we looked without knowing people background. Hope I was clear. This issue touched me because of the media and politician narrative,

[@iseektruth64]

Excellent discussion...Thanks for making it possible.

[@Thisndat80]

England needs to pay every person in America reparations.

[@danstewart2770]

Mr. Foster and Mr. Bailey look like they're a real festival of conviviality.

[@suzukisixk7]

Great discussion but I cant help but notice how clear it is that you have to be black to have an opinion on this.

[@basquegrand8982]

Of course. You're racist otherwise. In the eyes of leftists anyway.

[@just_another32]

I think you can be mixed race too

[@wescolumbus621]

Great conversation. Terrific participants. Slavery is an unfortunate historic and enduring fact. It was probably an enlightophobic/expoitative practice which affected women, children and men. Not necessarily black men. Slavery of men was outlawed in the West way before. Slavery trafficking of women and children is still going on. Ironically, the most recent country to outlaw slavery of men is not Brazil (though it did so after the US and had many more black slaves),, but Arab African Mauritania (1981!). It'd be great to hear the opinions of more black women in these discussions. 'Be great for Isaac to get effective speech therapy like John Stussel or Biden.

[@ClintByrne]

Isaac Bailey made this unwatchable someone said maybe he's disabled if that's so I'm sorry but it was so hard to sit through. If anyone can confirm please do I'll give it another chance. John McWhorter and Foster are brilliant to listen to

[@2013lovemy]

Isaac said himself he has a stutter. That is a speech disability, not an intellectual one. I think he was in incredibly brave!

[@michaelweber5702]

@@2013lovemy , really ?

[@2013lovemy]

@@michaelweber5702 so what’s your take? He’s stupid because he has a speech impediment?

[@xaspirate8060]

Hate to say it but Isaac never should have accepted the invite. But why was he invited if they knew he was a bad stutterer? Too much work to gather what he is trying to convey.

[@simonsays525]

It’s literally impossible to understand Issac. Unfortunate, but it’s true.

[@daniferris980]

I think he might actually have minor form of tourettes that manifests itself as a vocal tick because there is a very distinct difference in the ways he says "uh" as a split second time filler and the other more bold and almost forced ways he says "ah" it also kinda looks like the "ah"'s are something he is fighting back and also feeling frustrated slightly over. And if that's the case he's doing a hell of a job powering through the vocal ticks.