Antibiotics: The surprising truth about probiotics and what to do instead

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Antibiotics are one of the greatest discoveries of the 21st century. Since their inception, they’ve saved countless lives, but these miracle drugs come at a cost. In some cases, they can seriously affect your health or can even be life-threatening.
In today’s episode, Jonathan puts himself under the microscope. After an injury forced him to take antibiotics, he shows you the effect they had on his own gut bacteria.
Jonathan’s joined by Dr. Will Bulsiewicz and Prof. Tim Spector, who explore the impact of different types of antibiotics, how they affect your bacteria in the short and long term, and how we can reverse the unwanted effect of these drugs.
If you want to uncover the right foods for your body, head to joinzoe.com/podcast, and get 10% off your personalized nutrition program.
Timecodes:
00:00 Intro
00:35 Jonathan’s Intro
01:10 Quickfire round
02:29 Jonathan’s accident
04:44 Unpacking clindamycin
16:10 Side effects prevention advice
24:08 Jonathan’s gut at 7 days
26:50 Fermented foods
36:31 Tips for building your gut back up
42:11 Benefits vs. risks
48:11 Summary
52:05 Outro
Mentioned in today’s episode:
Post-antibiotic gut mucosal microbiome reconstitution is impaired by probiotics and improved by autologous FMT from Cell
Link: www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0...
Saccharomyces boulardii: What makes it tick as successful probiotic? From the Journal of Fungi
Link: www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0...
Follow ZOE on Instagram: / zoe
Episode transcripts are available here: joinzoe.com/learn/category/po...
Is there a nutrition topic you’d like us to cover? Email us at [e-mail] and we’ll do our best to cover it.
Vote for ZOE Science and Nutrition in British Podcast Awards: www.britishpodcastawards.com/...

[@ambition112]

0:00: 🔬 Dr. B explains the antibiotic clindamycin and its potential impact on the gut microbiome. 6:02: 💊 Clindamycin is a broad-spectrum antibiotic that can treat a range of bacteria, including anaerobes, but it also destroys the beneficial bacteria in our gut. 16:34: 🦠 The speaker recommends taking a specific probiotic, saccharomyces boulardii, at a specific dose to protect against developing diarrhea and C diff infection while on antibiotics. 17:59: 🔬 Probiotics may negatively affect gut recovery after antibiotics, based on a study with mouse models and limited human data. 23:55: 😮 The speaker took antibiotics and tested their gut health before and after, finding that the antibiotics had a significant negative impact on their gut microbiome. 29:58: 🦠 The speaker discusses the importance of live fermented foods in improving gut health. 34:41: 😔 Taking antibiotics can cause a shift towards an unbalanced microbiome, allowing bad bacteria to flourish. 40:20: 🔑 Recovery time from antibiotic use varies among individuals, and personalized advice based on microbiome data could be beneficial in the future. 45:42: 🔑 The use of antibiotics in healthcare is widespread and often unnecessary, leading to negative effects on the gut microbiome. 50:48: ✅ Taking care of your gut health in the long term involves consuming lots of fiber, practicing time-restricted eating, getting enough sleep and exercise, and being mindful of the impact of antibiotics. Recap by Tammy AI

[@susanneblakowski4060]

Thank you very much!

[@Lomogrammaton]

Thanks mate 👍

[@atmanand5802]

💖💖💖

[@constancegreiner906]

Nice! ThAnk you!

[@Lomogrammaton]

@user-me2zc2pe7x Ode Oshi!! oh brother another Nigerian scammer 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@juliecampbell8791]

My mother died from a C-Diff infection that she contracted after a couple of courses of broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a respiratory infection. Since then, I've refused several antibiotics in favor of ones that had less of a C-Diff risk. I also had a suspected allergy to penicillin after I got a rash when taking it as a child. My doctor recommended I be tested to see if I truly was allergic. I went to an allergist who determined that I wasn't allergic to penicillin after all. Thanks for discussing this very important topic. Great podcast.

[@marynoonan6111]

Sorry to hear that about your poor mum ❤

[@niamhbyrne4036]

Does movicol damage the gut microbiome? Please answer 🙏

[@filo2517]

Penicillin allergy is an odd one, I used to get a rash a few days after starting a course, and assumed I had an allergy. From what I have read since then though it probably wasn't an allergy at all, as it was just a flat red rash rather than a raised rash. I should get tested properly as the "mycins" really aren't that pleasant for me to take

[@vivienstratton4280]

In 2007, my Mum died after a year of antibiotics finally culminating in C-diff. She must have been very strong! When I asked about probiotics for her the doctors had no idea what I was talking about!

[@basketballfan5763]

U SOUND IRISH....ME TOO....I HAVE BEEN PUMPED WITH MOVICOL WITH CONSTIPATION FOR YEARS AND SUPPOSED IBS....I AM ON KETO 6MONTHS OFF ALL SUGAR AND MOST CARBS AND MY CONSTIPATION IS MOSTLY GONE....some plants were the worst culprits for causing it....lentils chicpeas and beans were the worst....I still adore these but sadly they are the very rare treat now in a miniscule portion size....coffee is great instead of movicol. @@niamhbyrne4036

[@janetnorris2488]

2 months ago I had 4 courses of antibiotics due to a severe tooth infection and feared the worst for my gut microbiome as I felt I'd been poisoned. I'd not had antibiotics for more years than I can remember. I'm over 80 and never take ultra processed foods and have been on an organic diet for 40 years to avoid taking antibiotics in meat. Very useful information in this podcast about what to do next. I will increase time restricted eating and take more fibre, kimchi, kefir, kambucha etc and hope my good bugs win the battle! All Zoe podcasts are SO useful. Thank you.

[@oscarlovesmochi3356]

Miso paste is also a good option and it tastes great. But I found supplementing with butyrate to be the most healing.

[@silviofontana3666]

at 70 yo, I was nuked twice with abx both orally and up the bum via colonoscopy to wipe out Basto and Defrag, then got pneumonia 3 times in two years and my microbiome testing, twice, which cost about $1000 told me that I hav NO measurables levels of bifio and Lacto bugs, and I am now, not able to re introduce these by probiotics or pre biotics or fermented foods, my gut is destroyed, and I ate the same as you all my life. ABX are a curse.

[@yuppers1]

You might want to get an ultrasonic toothbrush like the Emmi dent (it's German). It kills bacteria in places like under the gum where you have dental work. My dad is over 70 and has always had big issues in this area and is now finally ok. He was spending a lot on endodontists and periodontists and ruined his gut with antibiotics

[@janglestick]

ive been replacing not only all processed foods but almost all carbs with longer chain multiple stage 'ancient' storage foods. The best result has come from replacing noodles, breads and even rice with mostly soaked or sprouted whole grains ... Organic Wheat Berries have been the best, the energy is so much more stable and it does satisfy my remaining carb addictions. Soaking really helps, (like with almonds) and then you can cook them a couple more ways on top to go with whatever food. Or fully cook them through or blend them to use them as a great thickener. But mostly it's nutrient dense meat and rotating different fresh green (sometimes "spicy", cruciferous or sulphurous) sprouts in the morning. There's a lot to indicate that the best time to eat a little fully raw greens that might give your body a tiny bit of a hormetic challenge is by "browsing greens" the way you would when you woke up in the wild, force your body to make do for a little while. But the rest of the day it's cooked meat and cooked rotating veg, obviously it brings out much more of the nutrients. OK take care, hopefully I'm still taking in and adapting as well as you are in a few years.

[@carolmiller9066]

I am of a similar age and position although I’ve not been organic for so many years I have stopped eating beef and chicken except on rare occasions. Because of a bout with Anemia I try to ear some meat in the form of grass fed bison also grass fed butter. I lost interest in fast food and on the rare occasion it tasted awful to me. I recently finished a 10 day course of an antibiotic for dental reasons and wiped out my gut. It caused the most massive diarrhea of my life even though I took probiotics and kefir, kombucha etc. Until now I’ve managed to avoid getting any colds or flu or even Covid-19, even when my son who I live with had these infections. Having this video helps me to see what I need to do and to avoid any circumstances that would entail antibiotics at least until I feel my gut is working properly.

[@pejisan]

My mother almost died from C-diff. After a course of vancomycin, I fed her kefir and Saccharomyces boulardii (antagonist and the kefir seems to give it a foothold) Any time she has even the vaguest symptoms I give it again - she’s 102 now. Go mom.

[@panamericaco]

We make our own kefir but didn't help with chronic diahrrea. I just ordered the boulardii, maybe that will help!

[@mysticm1543]

Your mom is lucky to have you

[@Auguur]

I suffered food poisoning and ended up with bad bacteria in my small intestine. Broccoli sprouts saved me from possibly a lifetime of ibs. I am amazed at the effectiveness of these sprouts to heal my gut.

[@oscarlovesmochi3356]

I required surgery for two dental absences back in 2021 and was also prescribed Clindamycin. This led to dysbiosis, and two lengthy terms in hospital, having developed Clostridium Difficile. After leaving the hospital, I found I couldn't digest certain types of food, and importantly had to significantly reduce portion size for a year or so due to irritability. If anyone is reading this and has similar problems with a sensitive colon and a compromised gut, supplementing with butyrate capsules proved extremely useful for me. I still supplement to keep my good bacteria fed. My quality of life has improved substantially, largely because of changes in diet and supplementation.

[@thisorthat7626]

@oscarlovesmochi3356, thank you for this information. I did a quick search on butyrate and it appears to be very beneficial for gut health. Cheers.

[@winniecash1654]

Thank you so much for the tip. ❤

[@12345621770]

I am in the same situation and i use probiotics , l glutamine for leaking gut and betaine hcl

[@Jennifer-gr7hn]

holistic dentistry only..PERIOD. I had two extractions for obsesses too (criminal dentist years ago drilled a criminal filling on a tooth that didn't have a cavity!!) No antibiotics, only high dose Vit C IV, herbs and ozone. Be careful with mainstream...

[@someoneoutthere4061]

With the injury Jonathan had the main reason to give broad spectrum antibiotics [not mentioned in the podcast] is to prevent osteomyelitis [bone infection]. Broken skin + broken bone = high risk of bone infection. If they put a wire into the bone to fix it, the risk is even higher. Once bone infection takes hold, it can require long-term [even 6 months or longer], and often a combination of antibiotics to get rid of. So the surgeon was quite right to prescribe antibiotics to prevent this.

[@adabadada]

Totally agree. The description of the injury sounds like an open fracture. Definitely warrants strong antibiotics or risk a bone infection, which would be incredibly difficult to treat. If it were me, I would definitely sacrifice the gut microbes. Risk vs benefit.

[@makeadifference4all]

Plus Jonathan told his doctor that he probably was allergic to penicillin.

[@00Tenrai00]

@@adabadadanot quite cylindamycin was prescribed for the fear of MRSA. Unless there were cases previously identified at the said hospital there was no need for this. Cyclosporines would’ve worked just as well. Along with topical antibiotics such as powdered vancomycin. Doctors don’t have the time or the patients to curate individualised treatment. It is a cookie cutter one size fits all approach here. Therefore learn a little medicine. And remember, sickness is GOOD for business!

[@00Tenrai00]

⁠not quite cylindamycin was prescribed for the fear of MRSA. Unless there were cases previously identified at the said hospital there was no need for this. Cyclosporines would’ve worked just as well. Along with topical antibiotics such as powdered vancomycin. Doctors don’t have the time or the patients to curate individualised treatment. It is a cookie cutter one size fits all approach here. Therefore learn a little medicine. And remember, sickness is GOOD for business!

[@lindawee5187]

My daughter had osteomyelitis & antibiotics made her extremely worse, caused the osteomyelitis in her foot to worsen. We found out she has crohns since it was weird antibiotics made her worse. Took her off all medication & started feeding her anti-inflammatory diet. She’s still recovering now

[@ross1972]

As some one who suffers from anxiety and gut problems I recognise that Jonathan may be in the same boat. His body language kinda screamed that. We live in very stressfull world so no judgment and probably just talking about what happened could also be really anxiety inducing. Anyway working on stress reduction is super important for our gut health. For me walks in nature listening to music help. Saying no to people is also really good. I cant exactly preach too much because Im watching this video for a reason haha.

[@oscarlovesmochi3356]

Well said, Ross.

[@backyardpc1656]

@@user-me2zc2pe7x Is Johnathan, Doctor Obalar or are you just pushing people to go to that Doctor's website?

[@Mimiismimi100]

I agree 💯! I have same symptoms as you. Best to try to relax, as much as possible 🙏🕊️🌿✨

[@fifinoir]

Inversely, working on our gut health improves our issues with anxiety. Isn’t the stomach our second brain?

[@gurogreen]

A suggested beginner instruction to making sauerkraut at home: - get a cabbage (or grow one) - slice it finely or coarsly or however you would like to eat it - weigh it and measure out 2% salt (my preferred ratio but do your own research, they say to use salt without iodine) - mix the salt into your chopped cabbage and give it a nice massage - this is a little workout. -let the cabbage-salt mix sit for a couple hours and come back and massage it a little more. It should be releasing some water by now. - sterilize some jars (boil them for some minutes) - the jars/containers should let gas out but not air in, so maybe you need some fermenting lids or other fermenting systems. Or make your own invention!! - stuff the cabbage into your jar(s) and press it down properly, preferably the water should cover the cabbage. If you have it, use a fermenting weight or make your own. (Research) - Let it sit in the jars at room temp for at least a week. Some leave it veeeeeery long (months) some shorter. - When you think it is good you can store it in the fridge, it’s still alive just fermenting slower so the jar can rupture if the lid situation is absolutely sealed. - Enjoy P.S . The internet is filled with great tips on how to do this besides my suggestion. Have fun!!

[@t2hbunny]

Also, dont heat the saurkraut. Eat it raw or even jst enjoy the juices

[@cathycoryell2351]

Good explanation. I was told use pink Himalayan salt, or celtic grey salt. Also, allow mixture to sit on counter (room temperature) for at least 7-10 days, before you start consuming it.

[@denisfilby2342]

A very good podcast. Back in the 60s I was given large doses of Tetracycline for acute acne. Neither I nor my doctors made the connection between this treatment and the years of subsequent suffering I had from what was thought to be IBS. The impact was both physically and mentally tough.

[@samkampschmidt5463]

Greetings. I resonated with your reply on this Zoe broadcast and I was compelled to respond because I too as a teenager with some acne was prescribed tetracycline, which I took for a few years daily without knowing how detrimental this has ultimately would be and the doctor just kept prescribing it like it was candy. Clinical doctors back then and for many years since were clueless as to the negative ramifications from taking antibiotics and I like you have have suffered tremendously ever since😢 I could talk endlessly as to how this iatrogenic medical maleficence significantly destroyed my microbiome and my overall heath. More recently I have discovered that my chronic health issues were especially compounded by the fact that one of the normal digestive bacteria (Oxalobacter formigenes) that reside in the colon is principally responsible for metabolizing oxalate in the intestinal tract, which tetracycline will destroy. I had been consuming large amounts of food that were high in oxalates, which were building up in my body as of a result of no longer having any Oxalobacter formigenes in my gut. This can predispose someone like us in having chronic health conditions for example kidney stones and in my case severe myofascial pain syndrome as well as IBD. If you have had issues in this regard I would first encourage you to check out the work of Sally K. Norton who is all over the internet and KZbin. She also has a new book out entitled “Toxic Superfoods: How Oxalate Overload Is Making You Sick--and How to Get Better” It would be so good to follow up with you to compare notes and achieve more clarity about our common ground. Blessings!

[@basketballfan5763]

been there Ireland in 1995......been ill EVER SINCE.....SEVERE ACNE....1000MG A DAY OXYTETRACYCLINE FOR 6 MONTHS...CURED ACNE....F'ED UP MY STOMACH FOREVER MORE.....

[@theancientsancients1769]

Same here I was given that too!

[@lauraw.7008]

43:30 I thought recent studies indicate 3 days; max 4 days of antibiotics for a generally healthy person. Ten days is twice what most people need.

[@theancientsancients1769]

@@lauraw.7008 Antibiotics more than 5 to 7 days is outrageous. Some give 2 weeks these days to many

[@AniBAretz]

The reason for clindamycin is that no other general antibiotic has better bone concentration. Reaching the toes with a systemic antibiotic carries far more challenge than reaching the gut. Let's talk about why there is a risk of infection and what can result from it. The injury was a crush injury, so bone was broken, exposing it to greater risk of infection from any old bacterium that might be floating around in the blood and stopping in the fracture hematoma, whether it came from skin or gut or anywhere else. Blood flow in this case is further impeded by the fact that this is a crushing injury to soft tissues, including blood vessels, around, to and from the bone. And no bones except toe bones are further from the heart, with more delicate blood supply -- nor closer to the ground's supply of germs, nor farther from our eyes, which direct conscious attention. If even one toe became infected, that might have resulted in amputation. Toes are not ornaments. They function in balance, stability, strength for walking and running, and that applies more than double to the big toes. Lose them, and you will be shocked by how much you miss them. Now, add that history of difficulty with blood sugar control -- prediabetes, if you will. When a diabetic gets a foot infection, it tends to be a mixture of multiple bacteria, hence the prophylactic use of a general antibiotic. When a diabetic undergoes ampution, even of part of a single toe on only one foot, the risk of further infection and amputation up that lower extremity grows. This leads to what is known as serial amputations. Even if only one lower extremity is initially affected, protecting it so it might heal means putting extra stress on the other lower extremity, and when that starts to undergo serial amputions, it is a steady creep toward an early death. As a residency trained surgical podiatrist who then became a residency trained orthopaedic surgeon, this is why I would have put consideration of the gut microbiome below the risk of foot infection. Sure, I would have kept a keen eye out for C.diff colitis, but in a patient with PCN history, I would have been afraid to risk anaphylaxis, because even if it is so rare for cases in which the history is that old, it is deadly enough that it would kill far faster than C.diff.

[@samatoid]

I had a foot infection that would not clear up with multiple types of powerful IV antibiotics that two different hospitals administered. I then had an infectious disease specialist from that last hospital who insisted I had a fungal infection. The antifungals did no good. When I finally got out of the system (not cured) I went to a podiatrist who gave me a prescription for topical erythromycin which immediately cleared up the problem.

[@pegacorn13]

I'm not a medical provider but as you said, this sounded like a super intense injury and it seems like taking the clindamycin would be worth the risk. I'm certainly not a fan of taking antibiotics all the time when they're not needed and I eat Kimchi everyday but when something as serious as your bones being crushed occurs, I believe antibiotics have their place. I was recently in a bike accident and within a few hours, the wound on my hand sprouted that scary red line and started traveling up my arm. I was given doxycycline orally right away and took it for seven days. The line disappeared within a day. And yes, it was summer and super sunny but staying out of the sun and risking a yeast infection was worth killing that infection. I didn't wind up with a yeast infection (something that I've encountered before with antibiotics) and I'd like to believe it was all the Kimchi I'd been eating that prevented it. So what I'm gathering from this conversation is eat your fermented foods because chances are you're going to need to take possibly life saving antibiotics more than once in your life.

[@renarich4942]

But this is a commercial channel. Anyways I have no degree which you may realise from my question but Couldn’t they inject the antibiotics into the foot

[@tanyakilbane7636]

Thank you for this explanation! Where is your channel?!?!? :)

[@christopherchander2754]

Excellent. Thank you for sharing your perspective and possibly the perspective of the attending physician. Look, I'm no fan of the medical/pharmaceutical industry, but this reminds me, as it should everyone, there are still doctors who save lives everyday, and while we may question their methods, often out of ignorance, we cannot argue with their results. Personally, despite our differences, and while I may never fully trust them, I respect and appreciate all the good doctors out there.

[@user-jx2hr9wy9f]

52:28 Thanks for a very interesting and valuable discussion. Tim - in a bit of a throwaway line you said something like “ the residual small quantities of good bugs you might still have after a course of broad spectrum antibiotics might be curled up ‘hiding’ eg in the appendix”. This reminded me that some months ago I read a paper about possible impacts of appendix removal, which is a not much studied issue. It occurred to me that given your large database of individuals in Zoe it might be interesting to research whether there were noticeable differences in gut health or recovery post antibiotic treatment in those who still had their appendix and those who had it removed (maybe decades earlier).

[@mat1500]

Excellent recommendation for a couple of research programs, to see if any significant data might emerge

[@clarepollen]

I have had gut problems since my 20s didn't look after myself, but also I had my appendix removed. I am also very interested in the removal of my appendix.

[@22poopoo]

Haven't watched video throught yet. But when I was 16 i got so fed up with my acne. Was breaking down crying etc. I was wanting to use natural treatments but mother wasn't prepared to spend money at the time. She persuaded me to use antibiotics against my instincts. I used them for 2 years straight! My ance inproved but then came back with a vengance. I remember having diorhoea every day whilst on them. Very much wished I was more stubborn. Or used them for shorter period.

[@Susmeetjain]

This explains my life! I am 29. In my mid teens, I was repeatedly prescribed antibiotics by my (very well meaning) family doctor. Since than, my gut has been destroyed. Despite having a healthier lifestyle than everyone around me, I struggle with general health. I now know a big focus needs to be on restoring my gut. Engaging new age content from the world's leading experts. You all are saviours. 🙏

[@lorettamargaret2243]

Get milk or water kefir grains

[@lambsquartersfarm]

The importance of this is very significant for pregnant women. Passing on gut biome from good diet is so important to get babies off on the right start reducing their risks of so many things...

[@ianmcairns]

It's now thought that mothers don't donate biome directly to their babies

[@lambsquartersfarm]

source pls. @@ianmcairns

[@Erenm]

@@ianmcairnscan you share more about this please? From a pregnant momma

[@margaretskinner1416]

​@@ianmcairns it may have been a medical professional who was promoting surgical cesarean delivery who made that statement. Every infant when delivered naturally is coated with the mother's bacteria. The mothers vaginal biome is hopefully healthy.

[@HelenaBoutel]

​@@Erenmthey get their bacterias from their mommy...

[@masterprattu]

Thank you Jonathan, and Dr Will and Prof Tim. I learnt a lot from this podcast.

[@johnatyoutube]

I had a terrible bout of CDIFF immediately after starting Clindomycin in 2010 as a dental prophylactic. It took oral Vancomycin after struggling with it for several weeks to knock it out. Although I eat very healthy including fermented vegetables and probiotics, my digestive system hasn't fully recovered 13 years later.

[@12345621770]

Me too John!! And we have the same name 😅 i took clindomycin (dalacin c) for my dental implants procedure. And it gaves me finally ulcerative colitis. It sucks.. also after that i took a ton of other antibiotics for other reasons. And now im trying to fix my health and gut.. but its really hard. After so many courses! 😢😢

[@sandraderendy2134]

Profound and extremely helpful! My primary care doctor is very ignorant about this subject-- I will try to make her to watch this.

[@Ottee2]

Thank you. I enjoyed this discussion. Very useful information.

[@Becomingization]

fantastic podcast. Thank you for this very valuable information

[@sloopy5191]

The best way to be sure of the efficacy of kefir, kombucha, sauerkraut, yogurt, etc., is to make your own. It isn't difficult and tastes much better than store bought.

[@mariakarla90]

Thank you for this info,but how do you make them?help please ❤️

[@vauxy308]

@@mariakarla90 I have been making milk kefir for several years. I actually bought a live colony from Amazon. They Fast ship them with complete insructions. cst me right around $15. but I don't know the price now. I have been using this colony for at least 2 years.

[@sarahnovamusicatlanta]

Love kefir!

[@mohammadhasbibinsuminmoe8214]

Take yakult haha

[@lorettamargaret2243]

@@mariakarla90the best dairy ferment you can make is kefir, obtain kefir grains to brew it!! Google milk kefir from grains

[@southamptonsustainability7346]

This is the best podcast you've done so far! Thank you

[@franceseaton9627]

Brilliant podcast!! Excellent information and advice. Thank you.

[@JulesBeehive]

Amazing information, thank you so much ♥️

[@WalkingDday]

Here in France, untill about 10 years ago, doctors prescribed « ultra levure » or a yeast pill, with anti biotics. They stopped prescribing it as it wasn’t reimbused by the health service. I’ve taken dozens of antibiotics over the years, as my COPD led to frequent infections. Since I’ve been into fermented foods and time restricted eating, I feel much better. The last soar throat I had cleared up in a day or two. Before, it would have turned into bronchitis then needing antibiotics.

[@masterprattu]

what fermented foods do you have ?

[@theancientsancients1769]

Have you looked into Lung Support by Xtend-life? And GLYNAC too for the lungs ?

[@WalkingDday]

@@masterprattu Saurkraut, kefir, raw milk cheeses, cider vinegar.

[@WalkingDday]

Are you suggesting this because you've used it or is this just a spam promotion? @@theancientsancients1769

[@lpatrick357]

Smoking mullein is great.

[@myrachurchman5013]

Thoroughly enjoyed this episode filled with simple and common sense information to improve one's health. Much gratitude.

[@yvonnehadfield1655]

So why can the antibiotic not be injected directly into the foot or toe area to be directly as a defence against any infection in that area instead of swallowing and having your good bacteria affected?

[@sue.F]

Very timely, thank you.

[@rennywodynska3038]

What an excellent episode today. Thank you for sharing your personal story Jonathan and good luck in continuing to grow the number of good microbiomes.

[@PeaceWorks108]

I spent years struggling with sinusitis that finally started turning into bronchitis. It was always treated with antibiotics. The time frame was over twelve years. I can’t remember what my resource was but I started taking quercitin faithfully. Twenty years later and I have not had a cold much less a sinus infection…despite continuing to have a post nasal drip either from allergies or gastric reflux. What I wouldn’t give to have one of you as my personal doc. Stomach discomfort and nausea seldom leave. Very exciting work. Thank you:)

[@abigail01441]

Stomach upset might respond to Digestive Enzymes with your food. NOW® Brand Super Enzymes has proven helpful to me. Vitacost and Vitalife are mail order sources. They are usually available at health food stores.

[@madj7152]

Do you have constant bad breath? Im suffering from bad breath. 😢

[@rebeccaoxenham5463]

I feel my gut hasn't repaired from an antibiotic overdose from a couple of years ago. The doctor prescribed incorrectly for an infected sting and accidently prescribed double the dose. I have had bloating, weight gain and IBS. This is really interesting and has given me some ideas of things that might help.

[@domi7583]

I had the same thing. I was diagnosed with Helicobacter Pylori in my stomach and was first given "ZacPac" to eradicate it and then "Pylera" because it didn't help. But already after "ZacPac", I suddenly had a lot of air in my stomach, along with intestinal noises and constant pressure. Even today, 3 years later, I am still fighting against symptoms that have become weaker. But it is a torture.

[@puidemare2337]

Have you tried a carnivore way of eating.? Dr Natasha Campbell Mcbride has some very help nutritional information for health@@domi7583

[@abigail01441]

​@@domi7583 HP in the stomach, might possibly, be toned down with Olive Leaf Extract. I used the Seagate brand. It's a bit pricey, but it worked. I took two capsules, 3 times per day for about 6 weeks. Also, NOW® Brand Super Enzymes with each meal. Expect a lot of belching at first. That was the only side effect. And, do not drink or eat anything cold. The human stomach does not digest anything if the stomach contents are not at the same temperature as core body temperature. Anything cold will shut the stomach off just like flipping a light switch off. During that time, stomach contents will still be either fermenting (plants) or purifying (animal) products. But, normal digestion is not going to occured until the contents of the stomach is warmed up to "core body temperature".

[@rcmag13]

Very interesting conversation, I would be interested to see if Zoe can get to the point where they measure the amount of Antibiotic resistant bacteria in the gut as well, or is that already happening? Then determine a course of action to reduce this resistance.

[@sherylmarshall1444]

Will you do a 6 month and year update as we are invested in knowing if your gut recovers thanks and take care xx

[@julietaylor3237]

Thank you for such an educational discussion again.

[@lenakstudio]

Thank you for a very informative video once again. I wish some doctors were more cooperative in hearing the concerns of patients in regards to antibiotics. It is a bit strange that it is up to us, the patients, that we have to educate ourselfs in order to make the right decision whether to take them or not and which types.

[@angelahorsburgh9954]

Very good point.

[@hea7055]

I think it's down to them not being trained in nutrition. I wish they were, they'd have so much more to offer us if they were.

[@woolfel]

excellent conversation. thanks!

[@user-uw8sc2wp1i]

Really interesting and informative podcast. Thank you. As someone who takes antibiotics daily (doxycycline), and has for several years now, I would be interested to know whether there is anything I should be taking or doing to protect/improve my gut biome given my long term usage. I generally eat a wide range of veg, fruit, legumes, nuts etc and have been following an IF diet since starting the Zoe IF study in December. I note the importance of increasing fermented foods but would welcome any further advice on this. Thanks.

[@GeoRockNerd]

Resistant starch is a great food for the bugs in the microbiome, you could try eating more of those foods along with the fermented foods.

[@lpatrick357]

Fermented cabbage. Cheap and wonderful for the gut.

[@ann-mariedesmond2901]

p.s. Always impressed by these great Zoe podcasts. Thank you.

[@annfuller9044]

Phenomenal discussion that was presented in a balanced way. Thank you.

[@faescotland4174]

I really enjoyed this in-person discussion and very interesting subject.

[@barbaracummins2542]

Great timing for me. I'm on my 4th lot of antibiotics in 18 months. Now I know the best way forward.

[@user-gc8iv1ki8f]

Amazingly useful podcast - thank you. I watched on KZbin last week with interest, but have just re-watched it today, having been in A&E yesterday, diagnosed with a nasty eye infection, and prescribed a strong dose of Clarithromycin for 14 days. Thankfully I have some home fermented kombucha and sauerkraut which I will be increasing consumption of, but will also look to buy in some unpasteurised products to increase the diversity, and looking for more recipes so that I can start some more ferments going (I have Will's books, so will start there)! Thank you. The Zoe Podcasts are so useful - do you have a contents page anywhere, so that I know what to look for when I want to go back to re-watch past podcasts?

[@demetriafravel6556]

My son was put on a long term dose of Antibiotics on 2 different occasions for chronic ear infections. After the second round his personality changed. He went from a kid that ran everywhere and was very happy to a child that did everything slowly, began gaining weight and became depressed. He now has MS after having Covid. He still struggles with weight.

[@user-bm125]

Did your son get the Covid Jab? Did MS come after son had the Covid-infection or the Covid-Jab?

[@demetriafravel6556]

@@user-bm125 The symptoms started after we all got Covid

[@teressastuckey]

​​@@user-bm125always leave it to an antivaxxer know it all to blame everything on the vaccine. Stop harassing people because you're uneducated and paranoid.

[@lisalynch629]

Happened to my child as well

[@csb1143]

Look into methylene blue… heard it may help with gut issues. May help with brain issues as well… lots of Drs videos to watch on KZbin talk about it

[@dawnpenner847]

Love your videos they have taught me so much. Curious how does Chemo Therapy effect the gut microbiome? I was diagnosis with breast cancer in June of 2022 and my gut has never been the same. I am working on getting it back to normal and finding it difficult. Not sure if it's because I have still not gotten my appetite back or because the Chemo killed more then just my cancer? Love to hear your thoughts.

[@hughmanetti1908]

Had a mitral valve operation about 9 yrs ago. Went to a urologist recently who gave me Cipro after having me sign a release, like I know the repercussions of taking such a drug. I wonder now if the doctor even read my history. I’m getting more and more hesitant to trust today’s medical system.

[@janco333]

Cipro is one hell of a nasty antibiotic

[@someoneoutthere4061]

If a mitral valve gets infected with bacteria, you're looking at another operation and/or long-term antibiotics. So I'm not surprised uro prescribed cipro. Antibiotics save lives, after all.

[@rowdyposs]

Was it prophylactic before a urology procedure like a prostate biopsy? To protect you from a heart infection?

[@makeadifference4all]

I have a heart murmur, so a doctor told me to notify dentists before dental surgery because they might want to give me Cipro prophylactically. Fortunately, dentists have declined to do that.

[@lyndathorpe280]

I had hole in the heart surgery 41 yrs ago and it was at least 10 years ago when the evidence base changed for no longer needing anti biotic cover for dental procedures. I’ve had other minor procedures as an inpatient and no antibiotics given and no infection followed. This podcast is basically a sell for the Zoe test kits and I’m more sceptical of that rather than other medical professionals.

[@SimonJohnson-kx5ui]

In 2019, I had antibiotics to treat for a cat bite... Ever since then I had awful GI symptoms, and after nearly a year found I could not tolerate many gluten containing food (wheat, oats, rye). I now experience a lot of IBS symptoms and although I am fairly good at managing and mitigating my symptoms - it really has affected my daily life, food choices and confidence - all from a simple course of antibiotics.

[@seeingyouontube]

Or maybe not? Maybe it’s the gluten or glyphosate inoculated grains.

[@andrewroberts8959]

If you are not already, do everything they suggested. I had antibiotics after a human bite - 14 days of something very strong. Had GI symptoms/a weak gut for years afterwards. Over time I ended up doing everything they have suggested here and it really does work.

[@drderrickchua]

Bartonella infections from cats can cause Ulcerative Colitis. Don't be too quick to blame too much treatment as the cause of your problems. It could have been too little treatment.

[@ZsuzsaKarolySmith]

Oats are actually gluten free - it’s just that during manufacturing, they might get contaminated with gluten from other grains, but unless you have Cealiac disease, you wouldn’t notice.

[@dawnelder9046]

​@@ZsuzsaKarolySmithActually all grains have their own version of gluten. Oats, like rice contain gluten that most people do not have problems with. However a celiac friend has the worse problems from rice gluten. Quite a few celiac find they half to go grain free to remain symptom free.

[@Viqer_Fell]

A fantastic podcast to watch. As a type 1 diabetic who has just had 3 weeks of broad spectrum antibiotics I listened with great interest to the impact on your gut and the advice from two of the world's foremost experts in the field. I just wish as an insulin dependant diabetic that I could qualify for Zoe but I understand the CGM part of scientific study excludes existing diabetics from taking part. :( I am definitely going to try the chuckling goat kefir and momo kombucha though to reinforce my probably decimated gut biome.

[@zoemandel]

After years of fighting to get my gut health something close to "normal" I then had terrible food poisoning in 2021. Have not been the same since. Will try to incorporate some of these strategies.

[@isabelladavis1363]

Wonderful information …my daughter in law was recently hospitalized and they gave her two rounds in an iv in a weeks time…wish I could remember the diagnosis which was Not discovered initially and just before leaving was actually what she was tested for when she was first hospitalized…a crazy system of cat and mouse where she was …I introduced the fermentation process of sauerkraut as well as the container so she could make her own…luckily I had some going which is a regular in my kitchen..yes it’s late but never TOO LATE to learn more…thank God she loves it and is more than willing coming from a long line of childhood antibiotics with all of their side effects and serious gut problems…thank you for sharing and stay BLESSED!

[@gracegotmehere]

I’ve been on a daily antibiotic for over 4 years because of constant bladder infections. I told my Doctor that I’m going to take a break to help my gut heal, I’m 2 weeks in of stopping, and hoping to give time for my gut to heal. I had a yeast infection in my mouth for over a year in the past. Also 3 years ago I was septic for 6 months from having foot surgery, the Doctor trying to repair a broken foot, going septic right after. 6 months later a Nuclear scan was done discovered bones and joints were infected.

[@ianbardon8581]

I was on penicillin for two years due to Osteomyelitis a bone deteriating decease. It flared up every now and then, so more antibiotics of a different kind over many years, The last time I was on them was because I broke a bit of dead bone in my foot and have 10 days of IV in a UK hospital, since then natural immunity has been the remedy.

[@abigail01441]

For reoccurring bladder infections, look into DMSO. The doctor should have known this.

[@MrRobkina]

Cranberry pills, demanoes supplemnt, no sugar, wear a light pad change often. I drip teatree oil on my pee hole. After sex make a coconut small stick freeze it in freezer and insert into vagina. I use un refind coconut oil. Helps me.

[@hea7055]

Really interesting and helpful thank you. I wonder if doctors were routinely trained in nutrition there wouldn't be this reliance on antibiotics for day to day infections like Tim's sinusitis? Doctors would have more tools to treat day to day conditions that would in tandem support the microbiome rather than be destructive. It'd be great to do a part 2 of this video where natural antibiotic type medicines are discussed too. Because there's a conflict of opinion on the internet about certain plant medicines e.g. oregano oil, grapefruit seed extract, garlic, are they destructive to the good gut bacteria or not? Where's the true science on this ZOE? Are they ok to take for conditions e.g. fungal infections, h.pylori, SIBO, parasite infections etc? Or, although milder than synthetic antibiotics, are they still best avoided? If so, which plant medicines or foods are ok?

[@mudoh2131]

That would be a fascinating piece of work. There are some fabulous herbalists who could support this work.

[@makeadifference4all]

The "plant medicines" are probably good for your gut if taken at normal dietary levels (I.e., levels that you might acquure from a balanced diet).

[@abigail01441]

"Are they destructive to the good bacteria or not?" Answer: A probiotic does not kill anything. Ever. An antibiotic has one purpose. To kill. Good, bad, or indifferent. Antibiotics are for killing... something. A probiotic will however, fight for territory. That is the difference between the two. The items you mentioned, often work simply because they change the pH of the area. Then, the probiotics can get a hold at the level of territory.

[@cathycoryell2351]

Sinusitis is often fungal based, and recurring events, because antibiotics don't treat fungal based infections. People can also do sinus rinses, with anti-fungals added, like 1-2 drops of iodine, or borax, boron. Examples to research.

[@globalfamily8172]

Amazing. I guessed it before it was mentioned and I'm not a doctor. Having a hard time with antibiotics myself, I have in fact used Saccharomyces boulardii - it even helped ease stomach pain from the antibiotic.

[@smallfootprint2961]

I was given an anti biotic when I was in the hospital to re work my "broken" pacemaker. Turns out they made some adjustments, and didn't have to cut. Meantime I had a reaction to the antibiotic ( vancomycin). My face started to turn red, and the person pushing the bed caught it. Sad but true. I was told that it was the speed they were introducing it, and as soon as they lowered the speed, it got better. Still I don't want it again, so it's on my allergy list. I am sensitive to drugs, but I find that doctors/nurses often don't listen. I also have had a lot of sinusitis, bronchitis in my day, which meant lot's of antibiotics. Since being really strict on my wfpb no oil eating plan, I've been better. The few times I've had them, I've depended on the diet to recover. So far, so good.

[@Rikki.64]

One topic you never mentioned was gram negative and gram positive and the impact of targeted antibiotics. In UK NHS doctors often give me broad spectrum antibiotics without any tests, contrast that with my experience in the EU where the doctors always took blood or sputum tests and later the same day gave you an antibiotic based on what the lab results indicated was the most responsive out of a number of antibiotics tasted against your sample. Do you think an increase in testing before prescribing, and a consequent increase in use of less broad spectrum drugs, will lead to less antibiotic resistance? I have also experienced in the UK being given a second course of the same antibiotic when results not seen rather than test to find a more appropriate more responsive antibiotic. I have also found when abroad and given an antibiotic based on lab tests of a sample, that the gap between exacerbations increases, whereas in UK when given a default antibiotic the gap between exacerbations is shorter. Perhaps it is time for the NHS to rethink any and all of their prescribing guidelines that include antibiotics, regardless of therapy area.

[@user-ng3ny4zk2p]

Sputum needs to be cultured to identify a specific bug and then susceptibility to antibiotics tested. This takes at least 3/4 days. A blood test can indicate an infection but not which bug is responsible. Many chest infections are viral in origin. If an antibiotic is necessary in an unwell person a broad spectrum one will be prescribed based upon which infections most commonly affect the lungs. A delay of 3/4 days to determine a causative bacterium isn’t ideal in someone who is ill. People with chronic lung infections are encouraged to submit a sample prior to starting antibiotics. The drug might need changing depending upon the culture and sensitivity results. There are national guidelines for antibiotic prescribing in the NHS which are important because of increasing antibiotic resistant bugs.

[@Rikki.64]

@@user-ng3ny4zk2p great theory but none of the GP surgeries I have been to in the UK ever asked or suggested a sputum sample before giving me, or asking me to take, antibiotics. It was only after contact with the local COPD team that they said I should be providing samples and they told my surgery to make a note on file. So without the specialist team intervention my surgery wouldn't have ever issued sample pots.

[@mattwright2964]

​@@user-ng3ny4zk2pbut my experience is the same as the original post, that a GP will give an antibiotic and see if it works, then give another one etc and then finally send the sputum for test. This happened to me recently with a bad chest infection ending up on three lots of antibiotics. I don't understand why he didn't immediately get the sputum test done so we knew exactly what the problem was and focus the treatment. We are not really treating people we are putting them in a revolving door. Many years ago the concept of 'right first time' was developed in industry ie taking time to do something properly to avoid 'rework'. The NHS is clogged up with rework.

[@H00ndagirl]

My GP NEVER explained the impact of antibiotics and the microbiome and I didn’t know the questions to ask. It’s only due to watching videos like this and doing my own studying of research that I’m now more aware of the consequences. Still feeling the effects of years of regular antibiotic use.

[@northofyou33]

I've never had a doctor explain this to me. I found out myself a couple of decades ago, and stopped taking them unless I was very ill. I had to argue with most of the doctors who tried to prescribe them to me. I finally found a doctor who agreed eith me on this, but it was a lot of trial and error first.

[@connorobilly]

Very strange, eh.

[@themangochannel]

Thanks again for an evidence-based discussion about fermented foods and more

[@donnamaree3047]

Thankyou great podcast.very well explained by the best specialists. Intelligent questions, very informative..I have diverticulitis (hospital) & IBS ..will try fermented foods ..

[@juliagillies6086]

My husband had tooth assistance he allergic penicillin so proscribed strong antibiotic. After reading side affects he refused them and the dentist drained the absis but still advised the antibiotics. My husband never did but constantly rinsed mouth with boiled salty water until healed. Side effects were crohns and If I remember rightly chance of meningitis along with other terrible effects

[@laurajones6263]

A really excellent episode, thank you! I do hope poor Jonathan's foot is better, sounds awful. It's very comforting to know that if one is forced into a situation where antibiotics are required, it is possible to get the gut and therefore immune system back on track afterwards with good lifestyle habits, whether slowly or more speedily if one is lucky. I feel sometimes there is a bit of scaremongering about, especially from people who market expensive probiotics etc! I have been very fortunate in my 53 years - I think I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've been prescribed them, and certainly not at all within the last twenty, maybe even thirty years. But I have become probably too paranoid about avoiding them at all costs, so this episode was a great source of sensible balanced advice. I have been especially paranoid about my daughter, given the prevalence of their overuse in children. She has only had one course, when she was about 4, and I breastfed her until a couple of weeks short of her 5th birthday, when my milk ran out, so I hoped that would help get her gut community back on track. Cross fingers, age 11 she seems in very robust health, but at least now I feel better equipped to have a rational discussion with a doctor about antibiotics should she be advised to take any. Sometimes in this modern world, it seems very hard to do the best thing for your children, in the face of conflicting advice and information....

[@carolinelaronda4523]

Don’t vaccinate . She will be fine.

[@teressastuckey]

​@@carolinelaronda4523there's always an uneducated anti-vaxxer giving bad medical advice.

[@thelight3]

Would be interested to know what your advice would be for people who have to take Prophylactic antibiotics for conditions such as Cystic Fibrosis

[@LeonardoPereira-wh9jj]

spectacular channel about nutrition and the method developed by ZOE to customize diets, based on genetic individualities is phenomenal. Looking forward to arriving in Brazil. Hello Jonhatan and ZOE, come soon I need your help.

[@Marie-LouiseArt]

This is really interest. One of my friends who never takes antibiotics if she can help it was recently on a course of them..She has had anxiety ever since. I wonder how much mood is affected too by the microbiome. Thank you.

[@janco333]

The macrolide family of antibiotics can give severe anxiety lasting several months. Been there, got the t-shirt.

[@lollyb8808]

I ended up getting a c diff infection that lasted nearly a year. The irony is the course of antibiotics wiped out my microbiome but helped to rewire it to a healthier microbiome after it with wfpb and pro and pre biotics. I was able to go into remission from an autoimmune disease.

[@vigour09]

Hi, do you mind sharing what wfnb pre and probiotics you have used? My husband got very sick and was in antibiotics. Would be very helpful as he has autoimmune too. Thanks

[@jeankirchhevel4564]

Thank you for sharing your expertise. What a great opportunity to understand a subject matter that is quite complex.

[@kelvinlewis3947]

This was super interesting. Thank you!

[@MountainMitch]

Very useful discussion! About 3 years ago, I took a course of clindamycin. I took the recommended saccharomyces boulardii and additional probiotics, plus fermented foods and felt OK soon. About 3 weeks later, an intestinal problem appeared. It didn't occur to me, at the time, to link it to the antibiotic but now I understand that it probably was the result of clindamycin.

[@masterprattu]

did you manage to fix that intestinal problem?

[@MountainMitch]

A long time ago. @@masterprattu

[@kateq7212]

I was given repeated antibiotics in the 1960s and 1970s because I had severe earaches and tonsillitis throughout my childhood. Every other child had their tonsils removed, whether it was clinically required or not. My mother wasn't impressed by that approach at all, so I kept the tonsils and suffered. In the 1980s my tonsillitis was so bad that I reached a peak of quinsy and was very ill indeed for a long time. I was given penicillin and went into anaphylaxis. So there was that. Never had tonsillitis since, but hearing negatively impacted from repeated infections, stained front teeth from all the tetracyclines, and I now have multiple allergies to the extent that I have to see a specialist consultant, take a lot of meds for the rest of my life, and eat a very bland low histamine diet. Should have had my tonsils removed in retrospect. My gut microbiome must be tragically poor.

[@k8eekatt]

You can grow a new tummy garden🫂🏵🪷🌸💐

[@RichardNutman]

Having your tonsils removed doesn't prevent tonsillitis. I used to suffer with tonsiltus in teens and 20's. Always using penicillin to fight it. The last time, I couldn't get appointment and let my body fight it off itself. Never had it since.

[@kateq7212]

@RichardNutman Well, I never knew that. Thanks for the information. I had tonsillitis so often, it was hideous.

[@mjwilliamsb2676]

​​​​@@kateq7212I remember those times when it was fashionable to have tonsils removed; I suffered recurrent tonsillitis and ear infections as a kid and did have antibiotics, but the fashion for removing tonsils started just as I stopped getting tonsillitis frequently so I've still got mine. Both my youngest sisters had tonsils removed - they were 10 years younger than me and yes,they still got 'tonsillitis' after the surgery.. After that,I had tonsillitis probably 3 times over 20 years from the age of 15/16, the last time it was borderline quinsy, but antibiotics (penicillin) cleared it. These days,they only remove tonsils if the tonsil itself remains infected,, usually with pus oozing rather than 'normal' tonsillitis - one of my sons was on the list for surgery with an infected tonsil, but an Indian doctor told him to try sodium hypochlorite mouthwash as a gargle 4 times a day and the infected tonsil got better,went away, so no surgery.

[@cathycoryell2351]

I'm so glad I had my tonsils removed. Hugs to you, for your suffering and journey. Hard decisions sometimes.

[@Rikki.64]

Some clinical records wrongly show an allergy to penicillin as patients can show a red rash like reaction to penicillin when they have mononucleosis (glandular fever), this reaction normally goes away when recovered from mononucleosis. However, some patients files show a penicillin allergy after recovery, yet decades later to still not be giving them penicillin is crazy, and a course of penicillin will usually corroborate the fact that they do not have a penicillin allergy.

[@__Andrew_]

Audio: Great audio thanks. surprisingly tight audio for what looks a fairly bright acoustic. And blissfully free of background music.

[@selenaclarke]

yes, such a relief to see a video without the dreadful music

[@LizBrownYoga]

What about people with histamine issues who can’t tolerate fermented foods?

[@abigail01441]

There is an old book out there entitled, Alkalize or Die. The title is of course a rather radical marketing tactic. However, if you are having trouble with reactions to everything you eat, it might be an indication your system is leaning too much towards acidic already. The book is from quite a few years back, so it may be out of print. It might be available through used book stores.

[@JustJulia-qt9nh]

Can you all make a video about recovering from antibiotic treatment of SIBO and H. Pylori? 🙏🙏 Thanks for all of the helpful content!

[@ss104]

I’d be interested in this as well, currently dealing with H pylori and not sure about taking antibiotics 😢

[@abigail01441]

Seagate® Brand Olive Leaf Extract can sometimes be very useful in helping to deal with H. Pylori. I took two capsules, 3 times per day, for about 6 weeks. Also, do not drink or eat anything cold. If you ingest anything cold, it shuts your stomach off just like flipping a light switch off. The human stomach does not digest anything that is cooler than core body temperature. So, anything in your stomach that is cooler than core body temperature is either fermenting (plants), or putrifying (animal). Acids are being formed but, stomach is not digesting as it is suppose to. Also, chew each bite 100 times so you only swallow liquids. That will help with digestion a great deal. There are also Digestive Enzymes that can be helpful. Digestive Enzymes are usually available at health food stores.

[@madj7152]

​@@ss104 yes! Ive gone through 3x course of triple therapy. I dont have good bacteria left. 😢

[@carolinecroft7029]

Excellent info

[@Rikki.64]

Do you think COPD patients on rescue packs (i.e. oral corticosteroid, antibiotics, and mucolytics) should have the antibiotic in that pack alternated or rotated? For example, some always have Amoxicillin and others always have Doxycycline. Do you think they should perhaps cycle between Amoxicillin and Doxycycline to prevent resistance building up against the one antibiotic?

[@hugoapresname]

Very interesting topic, I even ferment myself😀. As a Kidney Stone Treatment Complication I had high fever for several days and bloody urin. So when I went to the hospital the Specialist Doctor recommended Antibiotics Treatment against the suspected local bacterial infection. I told him that I was worried about damaging my gut bacteria and story short I was treated with *a less strong antibiotic*. Maybe I suffered the fever a day longer but in the long run, after over a week at home now the diarrhea gets really better. TALK TO THE DOCTOR! Some *do* have understanding of how I M P O R T A N T your gut world is. At least they learn that antibiotics can harm your digestion. I was really thinking about declining the antibiotics. But since I already were in the Process of the Kidney Stone Extraction Procedure I already had a ‘bridge’ to the affected Kidney inserted. So the Specialist suspected a local infection. Strangely Urin Analysis was negative 🤔. Generally my recent diet is low-lectin, low-oxalate! and now with real ferments and fiber 💪.

[@northofyou33]

My husband got C-diff from clindamycin and had to have a fecal transplant after getting very, very ill.

[@hanscollin9332]

Jonathan, congrats on this excellent podcast! The reference to the S. boulardii paper got mixed with the Cell study from Israel. Can you send us the reference?

[@LAnn-en1vg]

Wonderful podcast. Thank you for sharing your experiences along with experts we respect! As a health professional I agree totally and it jives with what I observe. Why does it seem like sometimes the more we medically intervene we see more unintended damage we did not foresee? Perhaps drugs are not tested thoroughly enough for reasons of profit or greed? Or perhaps we don’t discern or distinguish between diagnosis and individual variables in humans which can be massive.

[@Paraclef]

Why are you denying the foods, just because you don't learn about this aspect ?

[@LAnn-en1vg]

@@Paraclef undoubtedly food is also a huge factor! We were talking about antibiotics here and drugs that disrupt the microbes also.

[@Paraclef]

If the Temple was the priority there would not have any doctors or specialist excepted for surgery. Everything else is a fraud, like allowing to sell tobacco, alcohol and all the bs for Black Rock and Vanguard to make profit for moloch.@@LAnn-en1vg

[@elkiton]

My wife had really bad diverticulitis to the point of infections and bleeding. Started a daily probiotic taken with 8 gms of psyllium fibre after the antibiotics, stayed with it, a year later no recurrences.

[@williampierson4340]

There's a massive psychological aspect to gut health. I guarantee you that Jonathan's fear of the impact of this antibiotic impacted his recovery. A knowledgeable patient isn't always the fastest recovering one. As educational as this experience has been for Jonathan (and his audience), the fixation on the potential danger was nocebo city.

[@myggggeneration]

From what I understand they spared him the troubling details at the time.

[@oscarlovesmochi3356]

My wife recently brought back fermented tofu from Asia. It works wonderfully well if you enjoy tangy vegetable dishes and is another fermented alternative.

[@douglas2835]

I would like to hear Dr. B's thoughts on the idea of a biotech invention that creates a "spritz" where you go to your doctor 1-2x/year and get a spray inside the colon with these necessary and wonderful bacteria. I try to add a probiotic to every meal. At a minimum, I take 1-2 oz of Kefir at every meal. My go to is a tablespoon of Kimchi with most meals. Thankfully, I love that vinegar sour taste.

[@noelarelph7849]

I had been getting repeat UTI's, consequently dose after dose of Trimeth or Augment. My GP recommended taking a Probiotic with the Abs with the last UTI in March. Since then I have not had another. I am making kefir, Kombucha and wholemeal sour dough bread also Greek Yoghurt which I lazily buy. So this has been a very rewarding podcast. It gives me confidence that I am on the right track. A long way to go though. Thank you

[@isadorasegura9314]

Thanks for sharing! How did you start with the kefir? Where to buy?

[@celebrantsallyspain4522]

Can I ask the name of the specific probiotic you took for your repeat UTI's please?

[@user-cx5ve8st8u]

I was on Antibiotics for 4 months. I was actually allergic to milk and there was nothing wrong with my Sinus’s or Face. I think I may need the Zoe app.

[@k8eekatt]

It's been really eye opening for me! There are additives and preparation techniques that change how our bodies react to foods!

[@elizabethlindsay4983]

Inflammation : I’m 78 and been on microbiome helping diet since Feb 2022 ( it’s fun , not a “diet”) . Asthma , which I’ve had every winter after a cold for instance, has gone and I’ve had it since a 2 yr old! I’ve stopped using the moderate use of asthma inhalers for over a year. Unheard of. Also I’ve had melanoma on my nose , it hadn’t spread and was poss big enough. I’m having a reconstruction process. I’m healing amazingly quickly after each operation . The rather quiet consultant declared my healing was a “ miracle “. So I’m happy with what’s happening , and thank you. I make Kefir recently , last few weeks . And I’ll start the carrot/ cabbage /salt my bacteria squish very soon! Thanks all!

[@jamespettyjohn9720]

Very informative. I really enjoyed & appreciate this. Thank u guys!

[@lizhall2961]

Informative. I just wonder, though, since post op infections according to John Hopkins, "Infections after surgery are caused by germs. The most common of these include the bacteria Staphylococcus, Streptococcus, and Pseudomonas" and one cannot get a culture and sensitivity test once the incision cite is closed, what antibiotic would Dr Will suggest post op? It may depend upon the location and the depth of the incision, if diabetes is present, etc.

[@dorihungerbuhler7885]

I’ve read and seen studies that proton pump inhibitors have the same negative effects on the gut microbiome as antibiotics. No one ever talks about this. Would someone with damage from PPIs heal the gut in the same way as healing the gut from antibiotics? 19:52

[@christinestanding]

Interesting question. Do you have a specific one in mind?

[@dennisward43]

Great discussion. Maybe an idea for another topic would be the effects on your gut of other more commonly prescribed anti-biotics.

[@JM-cs3dc]

YES talk about general knowledge of refrigerator antibiotics.

[@duncanicook]

15 years ago over a period of 18 months I had three courses of antibiotics two for sepsis which started in my finger nails from getting muck in from my job as a plumbing and heating engineer, the third an inner ear infection... That was it what ever I ate came out in a terrible mess. My GP prescribed prebiotic yoghurts...Blimey I could have cut ice with the force my faeces left my back side, massive bloated stomach pain..... Proper tests carried out and I was diagnosed with Lactose intolerance. I still am & it only takes the slightest piece of lactose. a bit Lactose in a tablet, Lactose free cheese, goats cheese...etc etc will really upset me for a couple of days or more. Is there anyway of over coming lactose intolerance?

[@patty2416]

Thank you! I’ve picked up lots of new knowledge.

[@seanr8809]

I had a very similar situation. I cut a toe off and mulched up my big toe with a lawn mower. Since it was a lawn mower and they were picking grass/dirt out of my foot, i was at a huge risk of infection. I was on so many meds that i ended up with h pylori and an ulcer. Which required more antibiotics. Then i was eating a lot of fermented food (Kiefer, sauerkraut, kimchi,natto,tempeh,miso) to help recover and ended up with a Candida overgrowth that i have been dealing with for months... The gut is one fickle bitch

[@Paraclef]

Eat simple. Avoid those fermented and over complicated "practices".

[@nathanlawrence7319]

@seanr8809, dude same exact thing happened to me, except instead of toe cutting it was a 3 surgeries and allergic reaction, which caused me to do 4 courses of heavy antibiotics for many weeks all within like 6 months, later leading to h pylori and terrible ulcers, more antibiotics, fermented foods, candida overgrowth, gut damage, and all the misery and suffering that goes along with those things. Got so bad ended up totally ruining my health and nearly disabling me, and still trying to fully recover from it. Totally crazy had no idea the gut could get so messed up and basically ruin your health. Good luck with the healing and recovery

[@theancientsancients1769]

I had amoxicillin after ear infection.. i lost appetite and weight for over 3 months! So i took probiotics high dose for 2 weeks and then my gut returned to normal and appetite too

[@ShellyMi2008]

How do you know what probiotic to take?

[@theancientsancients1769]

@@ShellyMi2008 I thinks it's best to take a quality one with multiple strains like VSL 3 that is professional grade that doctors prescribe, which you can buy too

[@SoSoPhie37]

Also L-glutamine powder for gut lining to heal. Amazing results in many people. Powder form best mixed into a small amount of fluid, followed by a glass of water to get it flushed around everywhere inside lol! It tastes rank but helps heal the lining. People use for IBS etc

[@jseehowitsbeen3177]

I just had a minor surgery to remove a cyst on my foot and apparently they gave me clindamycin in an IV during the surgery. They knew I had issues with my colon because I told them I’d had chronic diverticulitis for years and other digestive issues so I wish they would not have given me clindamycin in the IV. I started having diarrhea about 24 hours after I came home, and now I’m worried about developing gut infections and diverticulitis flare ups and so much more.

[@christinejames6803]

Fascinating. Thank you I have a question In your situation Jonathan you have the luxury of being able to test your Microbiome very frequently which of course Is probably not an option for most people Before you got your test results did you have any symptoms at all that would have given you an idea of the devastating effect of the antibiotics on your Microbiome? Presumably most people wouldn’t know that they had done this amount of damage with the antibiotics Personally I am completely obsessed with my Microbiome having been on the Zoe app for ages and done the personalized nutrition etc. and in fact, Recently, when my GP wanted me to go on antibiotics he said that he was having the opposite argument most people as I was very very very reluctant and everybody else seems to just be demanding them! Thank you very much. Christine

[@la7418]

Thanks for this, first time I’ve heard doctors talk about gut health. I got really sick in feb this year (not covid) but a nasty violent non stop coughing , felt I was restricted in breathing around my throat, doctors gave me amoxyl , then doxycycline, then amoxyl clauvanic acid, not to mention 2 lots of prednisolone, to no avail, after the duo antibiotics , my guts felt terrible, like it had been totally stripped to point after day 4 , I just could not take another tablet and stopped. after that and I am still unwell and it is now September ! I now feel I have oesophagus issues/damage in my upper stomach , as I am experiencing what I am suspecting is silent reflux ( I can’t feel heartburn) but I am struggling in my throat with strider sound , persistent cough , throat clearing, specialist has rules out asthma, lungs are clear, and now they want to try me on PPI, which I won’t take another Band-Aid measure. I swear it’s coming from my gut as it started as soon as the duo-antibiotic stripped my gut! This advice is good, as I have been trying to fix my gut biome since February. I am now working on timed eating to give my gut rest at night, eating more leafy greens and alkaline foods, cut out coffee even. Taking probiotics daily. I pray this will help. Thanks again for your post of this very important video, I will never take that antibiotic again if I can avoid it.

[@princessrejoicing]

i'm no expert… But from what I have read online, it does appear that Candida in the gut loves an alkaline environment and also it is worth noting that as candy to replicate in the gut they do cause the gut to become more alkaline which they love and enable them to grow even more.from the understanding that I have from reading online, it would not appear to be helpful at all to purposefully. Make your gut or food that you intake bring more alkalinity to things.

[@yvichenj333]

Prof. S spoke of his history sinusitis. I have this as well. Has any research been done on the microbiome of the sinuses? I wonder if it is affected by antibiotics. If there are ways of bringing those levels back, could that influence reoccurrence?

[@miriamremington0851]

I almost died from taking clindamycin that was prescribed by a dentist for a root canal. After almost 20 years I am still suffering from gut issues. I now cannot take any antibiotics for more than 3 days without getting very ill! The doctor that diagnosed me said that he wishes they would remove clindamycin from the market because it is the worst to cause c-diff.

[@lauravines1096]

Hi Docs! Thanks for this video. I am 65 years old and have avoided antibiotics for 40 years because I think they cause big problems that don't get solved often. But I've had two surgeries this year and was forced to take antibiotics, especially for one of them because the wound got infected. I took doxycycline, and I don't know how bad that one is. But my gut has not recovered. My problem is that I have severe celiac disease and other food sensitivities and allergies. I react violently to many fermented foods. My reaction to any alcoholic beverage, for example, is every voluntary muscle in my body goes into a painful spasm. It's like a neurotoxin. I can actually get temporarily paralyzed. I can't even have a sip of communion wine without getting some reaction. But I also react poorly to kombucha and other fermented foods and drinks. Kefir isn't an option because I can't have dairy. I'm considering making some cabbage rejuvelac. I've responded well to that in the past. I'm taking a probiotic, but clearly it's not really solving the problem. It's helping I think but not enough. I would be grateful for any suggestions!

[@csb1143]

Dr Ben Lynch has discussed some of these things in his book ‘Dirty Genes’ it may help you.

[@davidguthrie805]

One of your Drs suffered sinus for years. I to had antibiotics for sinus gor 20 years. A South Aftican Dr sent a blood test which showed I had low Alpha one antitriypsin. Russian Chemist put me on an enzyme from cattle bile. After yhis I didn't suffer from sinus infections.

[@jivekiwi]

Wow. I learned so much from this video!

[@kaminiravishankar5209]

You have to explore a tonne of options in fermented foods... Check idlies, Dosas, Koozhu, etc and it's also helpful to consume tender coconut water