AoE2: DE Campaign Review & Tier List | Episode III

[@Kogoso]

As a child, the El Cid campaign was my favorite because it was literally the only one I could beat without cheats (on easy) and I remember staying up until like 3AM on a school night just to beat the last mission. But having replayed it recently on DE your review feels pretty spot on, the gameplay just left me kinda zoning out and rushing to the next story bit.

[@ji6629]

I think this episode really shows one big advantage the original campaigns had: The big heroes and famous myths of the medieval era were still available. Filthydelphia puts so much effort into researching a piece of history that actually IS very interesting, he builds those great maps with perfect mediterean athmosphere, AND he gives us some of the best gameplay in all of Aoe. But in the end you just have an easyer emotional connection to the knight you know from the books of your childhood. Together with the nostalgia factor this makes even a mediocre campaign like El Cid much more memorable than the arguably much better Hautevilles campaign.

[@inconemay1441]

That would explain why Robin Hood and King Arthur were scenario editor heroes, though I guess they re too ahistorical to use in the campaigns

[@chingamfong]

Other two campaigns of Lords of the West also capitalized on that "famous figures factor", albeit from another direction and have you fight against and eventually kill the historical heroes. For what it is I think that worked well.

[@Hainaut183]

I would argue that there are plenty of myths and heroes from the past that, while not as famous as your Joans or Cids, have fascinating backgrounds that make for great stories in Age of Empries II. In my opinion, Grand Dukes, as well as the Last Khans campaigns in general, are among the stronger narratives in the series, many at least rivaling the impeccable storytelling in the CD campaigns. Even Hautevilles has some great slideshows with a narrator who relishes the uniqueness of Sicily and has a lot to tell the future Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II.

[@Hainaut183]

@@inconemay1441 Robin Hood at least exists explicitly during the time of Richard the Lionhearted, so he's busy with his merry men while Richard is busy fighting the Byzantines and Saladin.

[@Hainaut183]

@@chingamfong Longshanks is a rather famous figure in his own right, even if Richard the Lionheart edges him out.

[@junkyardemperor7030]

35:15 fun fact, when I was a kid and played this scenario, I never figured out you were supposed to convert villagers to start your base. I just snuck my way into the cathedral and converted it and DE even has an achievement if you do that

[@tiltiege7842]

Haha, same. And after that I figured out that you can cheese it by setting Crema to neutral and converting them

[@paulb7027]

Nice. I always converted the vils and then played 5 hrs struggling to destroy Milan until I reached the Cathedral so that the priests could proceed with the mass uninterrupted :D

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Overall the Lords of the West campaigns were of a great quality. Good story, great and orignal gameplay, a real sense of progression (even including the Warwolf technology into the story for Longshanks), the developpers really know what they are doing.

[@paulb7027]

So nice to hear. Planning to purchase the new campaign someday in the future when the civs are at least C-tier.

[@robchang4533]

Fun Fact: Joan of Arc and Barbarossa both have the Hero dying before the last scenario and encouraged by his history you have to escort a trade cart to a specific point of the map to still have the feeling of victory.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Technically Joan of Arc 6 was the last battle of the Hundred Years War, kicking the English out of Aquitaine after having kicked them out of Normandy a few years before. It's not a symbolic victory to save face. After that the only place under English control in France was Calais.

[@robchang4533]

Also Joan is the historically the latest campaign but its the first in order. Other way round barbarossa first in history but latest in aok order.

[@rodrigof5002]

I thought Gengis khan Also died before the last campaign

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@rodrigof5002 he died between the 4th and 5th scenario. The 2 last ones are following Ogedei, his son and successor. But the only time you use trade carts as objectives in his campaign is to assassinate the Shah

[@oskthebold1337]

El Cid was my favorite campaign as a kid. It was easy enough that I could complete it (unlike, say, Genghis Khan, which completely rekt me back then), and the narrative really compelled me and fueled an interest in El Cid as a historical figure. That said, I can't argue with its placement. The gameplay may hold nostalgia for me, but it's not the greatest.

[@marcelllakatos3586]

I remember when I reached the Hospitallers, I saw orange, and shat my pants that Henry was gonna try to defeat me right at the end of the mission.

[@lucasdavies8268]

This made me laugh :-)

[@steelprophecy5951]

Barbarossa Third Scenario feels like that one introduction to monks in Age of Empires (Babylon 1)

[@Alchemist1330]

Hautevilles is absolutely S tier, I completely agree.

[@cat_scientist8215]

I think Filthydelphia did everything he could. The history of El Cid or Barbarossa works, because they for you like a book character, you meet them first time, you enjoying their adventures and you crying at their deaths. But Hautvellies have no united history. I read about kid from breefings(Frederick Roger). They could make campaign about him, why not, really interesting person. I think, if Microsoft added Normans civ, this would be not bad. Sicilians is interesting nation, but their tech tree describes them as Normans. They can change so little it by addition of camels into tech tree. Then that will feel more "3 cultures in one nation". We must praise author of Hautvellies, because he did great campaign without unite history. Also. Sleeping emperor - good example how to rework original missions (+ Jerusalem that creates units, + passive ally in Richard Lionheart face, + more units for epic final battle against Saracens). Barbarossa still harsh and brutal campaign, that can show it's true force even against custom opponents(Harald Hardraada, Tomislav, Vytautas, Rise of Tamerlane and others) King of Valencia and Exile of Cid(And maybe Reconquista) - bad example how to do reworks. So easy and...not modern, i don't know how to say it. This feels like a 1999. No secondary objectives, no difficult, no new mechanics and little changes(Oh no, Denia in 5-th scenario was changed from Persian to Saracens...well). But Cid have one advantage , as you said. History of Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar is great(He's Spain' national hero, that's enough), especially that sounds great from his wife. Great video, Ornlu! Again!

[@nicholasdalby5178]

Your Reconquista crushes El Cid as far as gameplay in concerned

[@Foryal]

That nostalgia hit on Barbarossa... Can't wait for the next episode with Saladin and Genghis Khan! ;)

[@ateium2409]

Can’t wait for Köten Khan ! Just finished the campaign . The last scenario and the storytelling of the campaign was the best .

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

Hautevilles 4. Good to see the band back together !

[@michaeltaylor8698]

For me, the single most important aspect of any campaign or historical battle is its ability to show off its civ, which is why I also rate campaigns like Attila, Hautevilles, and Barbarossa very highly (a side note on the Sicilians name thing you mentioned: apparently in most non-English versions of the game, the Sicilians are actually called the Normans, which explains the campaign. My guess is the Sicilians name is used to better justify the Mediterranean arch set). Back to my point, its also why I dislike, or at least don't enjoy as much) campaigns like Tariq, Yodit and El Cid. In Attila you raid and pillage using Tarkans and cavalry archers - perfect. In Hautevilles and Barbarossa you are given opportunities to make good use of your defences like towers, donjons and castles. You get to fight numerous civs with different army comps and make use of all the units your civ excels. Compare this to Tariq, where you play as Berbers (and are therefore probably excited to make use of your camel archers, strong cavalry and good navy) but your main opponent through most of the campaign are Goths, and camel archers and cavalry do not excel against huskarls and cheap halbs, and your navy is mostly irrelevant except in an optional supporting role in 1 or 2 missions. El Cid is another example of a campaign where you are rarely given the chance to experience your civ's full potential. In the case of a campaign like Yodit, or historical battles like Kyoto, we see how mirror matches do not allow for a good civ showcase. I can't exactly enjoy the anti-unique unit aspect of my samurai when they only get to fight other samurai now can I? For contrast, Noryang point is an amazing scenario to show off the Korean's defences and navy. That's not to say its all bad but I think it is one of the more important aspects to try and consider when designing an official AoE2 scenario. So I definitely agree with this video. Hauevilles 4 and 5 were awesome, and Barbarossa 1 is probably one of my top 5 favourite AoK scenarios. It's an excellent example of how simple, straightforward scenarios can still be fun if done well.

[@SidheKnight]

I have lots of nostalgia for El Cid, but the criticism was fair. Except that I don't think being "easy" is a bad thing (because I'm really bad at this game). One thing I think would improve the campaign greatly is changing the civ in the 4th scenario to Spanish (since you are fighting alongside Alfonso anyways. Maybe add some starting camels to symbolize your loyalty to Mutamid). Two scenarios playing as the Saracens is too much. Especially since Saladin already exists.

[@Hainaut183]

I'm so used to playtesting my custom campaigns that I see King Alfonso and Lothair III as using Tomislav's icon, rather than the other way around!

[@tarakbouacida746]

Thank you Ornlu for this very interesting video, as someone who plays AoE almost exclusively in form of scenarios and campaigns, I am a huge fan of your work!

[@asawanted]

personally I enjoyed Reconquista. Ever since I first played that scenario, I have been a fan of Spanish ECG. Just fun to play with.

[@Hazel1312]

I already know Genghis will be placed in the S tier :D

[@shin9r]

Since I've already liked every video in this playlist, I'm gonna start leaving comments now :) This is my third time going through your campaign tier lists, its just so cozy and informative and always a great gateway when getting back into Aoe2

[@petermari8299]

As I read after the story of the Cid, things were not that straightforward as it is in the campaign, King Sancho wasn`t too much better than Alfonso, just lesser luck with assasins :D but the campaign needed this narrative of course. Barbarossa was the first and till DE the only campaign I could finish in the little time I was able to spend with the game, stuck with all the others on the 3-4th level. After "socialised" with Warcracft 1, I just never thought there should be more than one TC. Damn, I`m old. But these vids are great :)

[@TeyvillDost]

Hautevittes for me is the best campaign I ever played if not counting the ones in Dawn of the Dukes. And El Cid is basically the campaigns that I remember as the thing that got me interested in History which put me on a path to become an historian :)

[@steelprophecy5951]

I wait for what will happen if they add Bohemians and Polish. It would kinda change Barbarossa and Genghis Khan.

[@refur230]

Barbarossa was my favorite as a child. I used to play this so many times :) But to be honest i am not freekishly skilled and el cid is quite challenging. But i mostly solve a scenario by build up and killing then running over enemies with my startign army :D

[@jorgemendezfrike241]

Im rewatching your campaign review videos and I feel like a little kid bing-watching a marathon of their favourite cartoon 😅❤

[@inductivegrunt94]

I always found each of the missions of the Hautevilles campaign to be rather tedious and annoying. They were good, but just having to deal with negotiations, diplomacy, and asymmetrical hit and run tactics really was not my thing. The campaign was great, but the last level was too easy as I built a wonder and all the attacks to destroy it were thwarted by only minimal forces and ships. Not to mention two castles on standar difficulty makes your holdings in Italy basically indestructible from land attacks. I don't hate the campaign, too much, but it's definitely not a favorite of mine.

[@coredeadman5980]

Why do i love this dude so much...probably because he is crazy dedicated to this game. I mean even has fucking speed runs on his channel AND he explains everything extremly well. This is just so good :D

[@brateslawe7420]

When i finishes Barbarossa campaign the first time, i really enjoyed the plot twist at the ending

[@erkocab]

Thanks for yet again another very informative and entertaining video. I find myself agreeing with most of your comments. I feel you should take into account in the evaluation of difficulty the ability to cheese the mission. For example in Bohemond in the East, you can win even before the enemy attacks by massing your knights and skirting the map to avoid the enemy army to reach Kerbhoga from the rear. Obviously you can play it through either of the ways you described, but I do think the ability to do an end run around to win ever so slightly diminishes what is otherwise on of my favorite campaigns.

[@theowlogram888]

What I don't like with the Hautevilles campaign is that they aren't really showcasing the Sicilian civ. Like, you make a bunch of cav, archers and siege, but serjeants and donjons are pretty much optional. Actually I was fully expecting a feudal-focused scenario like Kotyan 2 since they went out of their way to make a civ that has a feudal unique unit.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Fair point!

[@nicholasdalby5178]

I agree with you about the Hautevilles. I personally put it in B.

[@jaggercrue]

I don't really know why but I think that having multiple civs in a single campaign is done way better in Dracula than in El Cid P.S. In the next episode we're gonna see 'Mongol bias' from Ornlu and we know it. Also wait a minute, does El Cid 6 really have less triggers than Sforza 3 (1v1 on Baltic) ?

[@andrewlawson7388]

In my playthrough of Roger in Sicily multiple enemies did go Imperial Age - Ornlu is just way better than me and kills the AI too quick. ^^ When I played El Cid I tried to fix the anachronism (and provide more of a challenge) by not using/deleting any gunpowder units. Was fun!

[@nicholasdalby5178]

I remember at least the red player getting to the Imperial Age

[@Stikarii]

A few of the things you hold against El Cid bother me in terms of objectivity (although I would personnally rank it the same because it is too much character-oriented for my personnal liking). - El Cid 3 is supposedely too easy to cheese, but no. If you don't already know the map layout AND the resign trigger for purple, you end up playing it the normal way and the argument that it only lasts 15 minutes becomes untrue. My biggest issue is that this argument should singlehandedly drag down Genghis Khan's campaign by an entire tier, maybe even two because there is a steam achievment telling you that it is possible. - The idea that the campaign should be a civ showcase for the Spanish. Campaigns have devolved into being civ showcases but were originally a way to explore interesting pieces of history. You are a long-time player and this is an old campaign so counting it as a downside is a bit unfair. If a campaign had to be a civ showcase, that would mean a few sad things: 1: that a civ that already has a campaign can no longer get another one (this one is pretty much the case already, but still sad) 2: that gunpowder civs cannot have intersting bits of their history explored through campaigns before gunpowders weapons existed (or have either anachronisms or poeple complaining that the units are locked) 3: no multi-civ campaign at all, which are bad for character-oriented campaigns (I might not appreciate character-oriented stories in RTSs but that doesn't stop other people from appreciating them)

[@niks2584yt]

29:29 just before you started Barbarossa, you started saying some disclaimers about impartiality and being careful, and I was SOOO worried! I was like, if he 'messes up' the rating for Barbarossa, I might have to take some time off of this channel and your Twitch ;) but yeah, like you said "I think we will be fine" :D :D

[@sanmartinnomurio]

Love these videos Ornlu! It's like I'm playing the campaigns all over again.

[@nicholasdalby5178]

Excellent point about the Barbarossa campaign being broken into thirds.

[@morgs5118]

What's weird is that the original AoK and AoC campaigns are wayy more compelling story wise (with the unforgettable storyboards) than the later campaigns but the later campaigns are more fun and more challenging imo. Compare Joan of Arc (which is at times challenging) to say, Almeida.

[@khankhomrad8855]

Four things: You always knew who was mad at who and why, the writing was pretty good, the delivery was great, and the pacing was spot on.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

The AOK and AOC campaigns were made by the original devs. Starting with the Forgotten, it was an entirely different team, and you really see their lack of experience at the time. There is a reason why most Forgotten campaigns were remade from the ground up for the DE. However when it comes to difficulty it's logical, the average player skill was much higher after 15 years of multiplayer meta. New players still had the good old campaigns, but for experienced players that wanted something more spicy, new campaigns HAD to be more challenging.

[@chingamfong]

Basically I agree with what Lorraine said. The Forgotten empire studio got better at writing and designing scenarios as time goes on. The Last Khan campains, for example, all had very good stories as well as engaging gameplay. Compared to the Forgotten in HD and African Kingdom scenarios you can clearly see it's a big step up

[@kingstarscream320]

@@Duke_of_Lorraine Yeah The Forgotten Campaigns were pure garbage and I never trusted FE since.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

​@@kingstarscream320 they've gotten much better with time. The Last Khans and Lords of the West campaigns are excellent.

[@robchang4533]

Damnit, I guessed it will be "SBS, since OrnLu hates ElCid" but even then I underestimated his view on the campaign :(

[@kunth1819]

*Hautevilles - B tier* but the campaign is very well crafted like all new campaigns introduced in DE. One of the most creative campaigns out there but the execution, balance or I don't know how to name it is usually pretty off. *Hautevilles 1* is a nice, complex and creative scenario but it might be confusing what to do at the start. Hero level up mechanics is certainly very interesting and it would be welcome in other campaigns imho. However, the mission feels grindy at times and pop cap isn't among generous in early stages. Thankfully, if the mission goes for too long, it gives you Trebuchet for free which should speed up the end significantly. *Hauteviiĺles 2* has a good, creative idea but the execution isn't quite there. The start is pretty hard but once you kill a couple of emirs it gets stupidly easy. Also, I believe lots of people encountered weird AI behavior where Emirs suddenly attack your base giving you an opportunity to kill them and thus, take their lands without that much effort. All this makes this scenario below average. *Hautevilles 3.* Again, interesting, creative idea but it's done really awfully. I believe it took me 5+ ingame hours to finish it for the first time (8x speed ftw!). A small amount of resources, especially gold but I traded, and mainly really low pop cap make this mission super grindy and on top of that your opponents have near immortal armies as long as their buildings stand. Arbalests seem as a better option but I didn't use them for the first try hence 5+ hours lenght for me. You could even ignore buildings destruction objective if you use Arbs. *Hautevilles 4* is once again a creative mission that lacks something. People say you even cannot lose this one. I think they are right but I never tried just to go for a walk or something. I just made tons of castles and then killed Kerbogha. Anyway, the mission is also incredibly overwhelming because you are about to defend maybe more than a half of whole map. However, the size of the city feels excessive because AI attacks you only on few spots. *Hautevilles 5* is a beauty. One of the best final missions in the game honestly. There are so many options, the mission gives you several ways to victory so the replayability is a certainty. The difficulty is pretty high at the start and the mission is surely overwhelming for the first try. If you stabilize your situation, the mission basically becomes a sandbox scenario where you can do whatever you want. I hope we shall see more missions like this one in a future. *El Cid - C tier.* Missions aren't memorable and they are just average gameplay-wise and difficulty-wise. Also, you play for 2 civs - Spanish and Saracens - and the civ that should be considered main aka Spanish is played in missions where it's hard to enjoy Conqs. Another thing is it's clear this mission suffers from low pop cap (usually like all other AoK, AoC campaigns). *El Cid 1.* A little space to build your eco and fighting Castle with Castle age army and limited pop cap isn't so much fun. *El Cid 2* once again suffers from low pop cap and there is a kinda lack of safe minable resources. It also feels grindy but that's because of Castle age only army and low pop cap. *El Cid 3* is a fine scenario but nothing to write home about. I don't remember having issues with this one other than a lack of good spot for the eco. Btw. I see Ornlu speedran it. *El Cid 4* is a scenario where you should be Spanish but for some reason, you are still Saracens which is simply lame considering I want to play Spanish campaign. There is Saladin for Saracens. This is the most grindy mission of El Cid campaign and AI attacks might be strong early on. *El Cid 5* is a defend wonder/city mission that might surprise you because the attacks come early. Once you manage to run your eco more smoothly, it gets easy. Castles are a good idea and even better idea is to protect building vills because there are 2 vills originally (IIRC) but if they die only 1 will spawn which will make the mission somewhat longer. *El Cid 6.* Pretty easy for final mission if you know what to do. Rushing enemy on land is essential for easier start. Yusuf is not a threat considering his navy usually attacks your fortified walls. On the other hand, Yusuf is pretty stubborn so it might take some time to defeat him + you must invest in navy to do so. *Barbarossa - S tier* campaign. Some missions are legendary, the difficulty is usually spot on and you play my favourite Teutons. Obligatory low pop cap comment because I feel some missions would be better with 25 pop more. *Barbarossa 1* is one of my most favourite missions ever. The feel you are fighting for HRE crown is simply there and it is fun to fight against these odds considering they don't try you to completely overwhelm you. *Barbarossa 2* is the weakest one. It is just boring I would say. Using Mangonels to stand ground Henry's base is maybe the best part of this (ok that's a cheese but whatever). Poland puts up basically no fight and you have a castle anyway so no big deal. *Barbarossa 3* Good mission but it could feel grindy at times. Trying to complete it without converting vills might seem as a funnier way because Teuton navy that is otherwise needed is awful. I'd recommend focusing more on Cathedral than on your enemies. Focusing on your enemies has a potential to make this mission grindy. *Barbarossa 4* is another legendary mission (for me) and joy to play. Difficult just right and the objective is merciful considering favourite objective of older campaigns was to destroy all Castles or defeat all enemies. *Barbarossa 5* No eco mission but your army is big and capable enough to deal with anything you could encounter. Anyway, even though I hate no eco missions with passion I don't mind this one that much. Maybe because you actually have good army. *Barbarossa 6* another legend for its "X minutes to Saracen attack", however, when I played it last time it felt grindy at the end. Unlike in old AoE versions, Richard Lionheart is a useful ally. Difficulty-wise, it's pretty hard if you don't exploit the time cushion (Castle Douche Persians if you want it easier). Saladin is a worthy opponent but I found War Elephants of Persians the biggest pickle. Jerusalem part of the mission feels redundant, though. Its army just sits home so it's not a threat in the end considering you should have tons of resources and nicely running eco.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Well thought out and great to read - thank you :)

[@styx4990]

I really enjoy watching this series, great work! I totally agree with your ratings of todays three campaigns. Especially Barbarossa is one of my all time favourites, even after about 20 years after my first playthrough. And the sicilian campagin does a great job with all the different ways to play each scenario. The Cid campaign is not bad, but especially to showcase the spanish Conqs, I would prefer to play a Hernan Cortes campaign for the Spanish. Btw: It's such a shame that Barbarossa 6 is one of only two appearances of Richard, he would easily deserve its own campaign.

[@Xastor994]

You literally say "eventually the Normans settled down in southern Italy and Sicily and played a large role in shaping the culture of that region, but that was a process that took generations" as if that isn't literally what the campaign is about - the evolution of a culture, which is why I think it's so apt that you are the Normans for the first 4 missions and finally "become" the Sicilians for the grand finale. In all the previous missions, you play as the Norman nobles who are trying to carve out lands to rule as foreigners, but by the end they have become their own culture in the Sicilians. At least that's how I read the civilization name change in the campaign anyway, and would put that as a very nice bit of flavor on Filthydelphia's part.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Perhaps I was unclear - when I said "generations", I meant like a couple hundred years at the least. But I still like the fact that you end as "Sicilians" like you say

[@LotsOfS]

Just finished El Cid (I skipped The Hautevilles), and I enjoyed it. The mission where you have to wait for the wonder to build gave me some difficulty because I am not a very quick player, however I was able to cheese it by stopping the initial army that attacks in the west by building a gate in front of their gate before they go through. I agree though that the campaign definitely had more going for it narratively than gameplayly.

[@miguelangelgutierrezflorez2574]

Great video, Ornlu, as usual! Just a comment about El Cid not showcasing well the Spanish civ... it has surely been discussed before, but doesn’t it feel like the main issue here is that Spanish is a really poorly designed civ in the context of a medieval game? Christian Spain (and Muslim Spain too) had an extremely interesting military history during the Middle Ages. Extremely good and nimble light cav (jinetes, what genitours should be, were devastating against enemy cavalry), solid infantry, military religious orders, excellent skirms, early use of gunpowder, solid navy (Castile clapped England several times, and Aragón expanded very well across the Mediterranean)... There are more than enough info and sources to design a funnier and more relevant Spanish civ to the AoE2 timeframe. The game decided to be inconsistent and go for the early Modern Age flavour as opposed to meso civs. However, it got it wrong too. In this case, tercio warfare (pike, sword and gunpowder) and navy would have been way more relevant defining traits of the civ. But hey, the devs decided to go for the stereotypical, memey conqs and inquisitors. haHAA clap, so funny. I am aware that several other civs are grossly mischaracterised. Goths, Koreans, Indians... but it still sucks. PS: Leonese here. El Cid mercenary, Alfonso did nothing wrong.

[@kingstarscream320]

Well said. The conquistador unique unit was a dumb choice.

[@krityaan]

I feel like I played a different version of Hautevilles 4 than every other person here. I played it within the first 3 days of DLC release and Hautevilles 4 was an absolute nightmare. There was no resource income, at all. I couldn't afford most unit upgrades, and the city's walls were breached multiple times. I had to section off parts of the city and build cheesy chokepoints to deal with the endless flood of HCA, Camels and Hussars. The north east army pushed hard and deep into the city, and I had to section that area off, only being saved by the attack timer. I write this off mostly due to my having inferior units and I wonder if they tweaked the level to make it easier shortly after the DLC's release.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Idk, I recorded my first playthrough of Hautevilles 4 within the first few days of the DLC's release, and I didn't really have any issues

[@EsotericBookworm]

Great video! Definitely makes me want to play the new campaigns, I didn't finish any of them after the ones from the forgotten kingdoms expansion.

[@SpearMKW]

As a kid El Cid was actually my favorite campaign, mainly due to its story and not being too difficult for me as what we nowadays call a low elo legend, compared to say saladin, barbarossa and montezuma which as a kid made me pull my hairs out. Thinking about the Hautevilles reminds me of how much i hated that 3rd scenario, which on its own moves my score from S to A. Theres no good way to lure armies away and i eventually resorted to sending arbalests on non attack stance and building them in with a villager, and then switching them to aggro and attack stuff to lure them while i took out buildings. Took me like 2 hours to finish it and at no single point was i having fun. Barbarossa i didnt like as a kid due to 3 and 4 being too difficult for me at the time, but definitely has grown on me a lot over time. The final scenario still feels like a ridiculous grind though.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

For Hautevilles 3, just have 2 transports full of knights and keep loading/unloading them as the enemy armies approach. You really don't need to go *that* cheesy lol

[@SpearMKW]

@@OrnLu_AoE well see that worked for the first enemy, but then stuff got too far inland for transports to work

[@IschmarVI]

@@OrnLu_AoE easier: just mass about 40 arbs and oneshot the enemy soldiers. No need to avoid them at all. Just make sure to replace them immediately as you NEED to stay above critical mass

[@janisberzins1734]

Barbarossa is My favorite campaign in this game. I like the original missions more than the rest overall. But there are many other good campaigns in the best game of all time.

[@marcellnemeth5122]

Oh boy, this is the first part of the series that shows how differrent other people's taste can be (which is not a bad thing at all, it just makes these conversations more interesting). The Hautevilles - I enjoyed this campaign, and the story kept me entertained more than i was expecting. However, i just can't list them in the same tier as Attila and Barbarossa. Those campaigns felt so epic, and made me appreciate their civ a lot more. Furthermore, they made me really feel like im part of the army: i felt like i was there looting with attila (sometimes i miss it too) , and conquering/marching with the army of the Empire, Hautevilles did not make me feel like these campaigns at all, but i wouldnt be as harsh as others below, i think the campaign definitely deserves A-tier. El Cid - This campaign holds a special place in my heart, as this was my fav campaign when i was young; its simplicitiy and story made El Cid one of my favourite heroes in history. Unfortunately, your points make sense regarding its weaknesses, but i dont think those are strong enough to make this campaign C-tier. In my opinion, the story is strong enough to make it at least a B-tier campaign. I liked that everything came a full circle, you shut down and defeated Berenguer, had a final showdown with Yusuf and his Black Guards , with the prestige you built up during the campaign was huge and strong enough to create a kingdom of your own, and finally Alfonso (Postomus) lifted your exilation. Finally, for me the missions WERE fun enough tahat i would put el cid in A-tier with the Hautevilles (Biased opinion: A, reasonable op: B) Barbarossa - I was surprised that a LOT of people in the comments said that Henry the Lion is the worst mission in this campaign, while for me its one of my favouritesxd. I aggree with all your points tbh, but what i liked about this campaign, were the alliances. I love enabling my allies in a way that they can actually be useful, and barbarossa provided me with a lot of alliance. I loved the tribute system in barb2, Cleared everything in the river so that Cremona can safely land and start sieging Milan with me. while i aggree that Barb4 is one of the best missions in the game, i was a bit sad that Henry, while he was allied to me, provided ZERO amount of help (i know this happenned IRL), like he didnt even provide me vision. But the mission design was so good that i immediately let go of the hate. Also, shoutout that during the showcase you built a wonder in Verona!! I literally havent seen a single playthrough that did that. Regarding alliances, in one of my replays i respected the Byzantine alliance so much that i didnt even declare war on them and just used gallipolli's dock, and in the last scenario, Richard is ACTUALLY really useful holding off the saracens while you quarrel with the persians, that was a really nice touch. Barbarossa definitely deserved S -tier, i aggree on that one.

[@renzoraschioni3886]

I appreciated that you considered how the campaign choice matches the civilization portrayed. It's a thing to value which historical event suits better the civilization and which not. The campaign design begins even before making the campaign itself. I'm expecting you will bring this argument again when you'll talk about Prithviraj campaign. I think the choice of portraying the legend of Prithviraj wasn't the top, considering Indians in this game are a strongly oriented gunpowder civilization, and in the campaign we can't use any gunpowder due to time period. I had a hard time to explain these concepts clearly in English, I hope it's understandable 😊✌️

[@theowlogram888]

Ele archers in Pritivi 4 are actually a legit strat so the campaign at least managed to get this right 11

[@warrentiplady7255]

great video! loving the series and all of your content!

[@oneoneonefour]

I'm not that good at the game so most of my Barbarossa playthrough was me struggling with what I knew worked - halberdiers and onagers. I was kind of frustrated cause when I tried other things I just failed and it lowered my enjoyment. But the march mission really mixed that up and I liked it a lot. Then in the last mission I converted something like like 20 elephants and had a blast with a giant mixed army tearing through the enemy. It really made me like the campaign in the end.

[@seleukosnikator7347]

I agree 100% with you. I don't enjoy playing again el Cid. The 4th mission is the only one that makes me happy and it is played as the Saracens lol. Barbarosa and the Hautevilles in the opposite are great, with more factions, more playstyles, more ways to win. I played Barbarosa so many times (it's my favourite campaign) and for me, one downside of it is that we can't play Frederic himself in the missions.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Yeah El Cid 4 was def the best of the bunch - not an amazing level, but still pretty decent. And you do get to control Barbarossa in the sixth scenario maen!! ;)

[@seleukosnikator7347]

@@OrnLu_AoE How could I forget that ? The most powerful hero of the game.

[@guitar_jero]

@@OrnLu_AoE "I kid you not, your Holiness. Emperor Barbarossa turned himself into a pickle. He's called, Pickle Fred." (I'm truly sorry about that)

[@nightmare4456]

For me when I played the Sicilian campaign I thought it was really rewarding to switch to Sicilians in mission five. It made me feel like I had finally reached my goal of becoming a true civilization.

[@nicholasdalby5178]

Yes, so glad you put Barbarossa in S 11

[@giannisxouliaras5672]

I also called it pope and antelope when I was little playing for first time lol dunno why probably never tried to see the actual words

[@lagg1e]

Never actually did the Barbarossa last level properly. I walled all my units in a corner in damascus with some extra siege, broke through and dealt with the second half.

[@diosn6909]

Great work! I agree about Hautvilles and Barbarossa but I think El Cid could be B tier, a close call though between B and C.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

My initial ranking actually had El Cid in B tier, but upon replaying it for the background footage I realized that it just isn't very fun to play for the most part 11. Alaric 5 and Suryavarman 5 are both really sick levels, and even their "average" scenario is better than anything in El Cid. Ofc the Cid is the best story of those three by far, but like I said, gameplay > story for the purpose of the tier list

[@CWig_99]

El Cid was my favorite campaign as a kid, and Joan of Arc was my dad's favorite. Hail the Cid!

[@mathewhopfer3256]

Is there a way to still play Barbarossa brawl? Man that was a fun couple weeks

[@ivandelcarmencampos5988]

Hi, as a native spanish i definetly agree with the spanish civ not beeing the most suitable for the campaing. During the time period where the Cid legend occure, the castillians where one of many kingdoms that coexisted in the peninsula. Spain, as an unified kingdom only happens after the "reconquista". If you realy wanted to have a civ that portraits better the time period in spain a mix between teutons and goths would have been a better choice.

[@somekindoflatindude9497]

I had to skip the Hautevilles review since im stucked in the mission 2, but overall i agree with both Cid and Barbarossa grades

[@pierrez8570]

I love those so much, thanks for doing them.

[@osiris3676]

i agree with you being harsh on the spanish campaign but as a child i loved it only because was the only campaign i could play the saracens and not die instantly like on the saladin campaign lol

[@Christos14532]

Great job!! Keep going, man! Here is my opinion. Hautevilles: Great gameplay, really enjoyable! I also liked the story despite the lack of cohesiveness. Some missions can be quite long but they are not grinding, they have triggers and mechanisms that do not let you get bored at all. However, I would say it is a fairly easy (definitely not a 3 sword) campaign and I prefer the narrative of some other campaigns a bit more. So I would rank it as an A-tier. El-Cid: Yeah, I guess that is a C-tier campaign. The story is nice with no annoying missions, but the scenarios are quite simplistic and forgettable. Barbarossa: Well, this is hard to rank. In some aspects epic, but annoying in others. The 4th scenario is great and really challenging (tried no wonder victory, I ended up defeating them all, really enjoyable and rewarding experience). The 1st and 5th are also nice and the 6th is a real bloodbath, you really feel the chaos of the battlefield. But in the end, defeating Jerusalem becomes really grinding with all those towers and monks and AI micro. I also find the 2nd and 3rd scenarios slow and poorly designed. Not engaging, not enjoyable. Overall, I guess this is probably an A-tier campaign for me, but closer to B-tier than S.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Nicely written! Like I said, I do enjoy reading everyone's takes on the campaigns :)

[@ArchsageCanas]

'Det Einzje, wat wir im Moment tun können, ist, den Leichnam des Kaisers nach Jerusalem zu bringen!' Oh dear... such an iconic campaign and the original German voice acting was top notch in the last mission of Barbarossa. :D But yes, the second mission is pretty pants. It's not even about defending the allies as no one attacks them in the first place and building up takes forever with that bunch of villagers, against a faction that is no threat but has castles. The rest of the missions are great though and gives options to do missions before side-objectives were a thing. I'm glad they fixed it so not the entire Saracen fleet attacks in mission 5 when triggered and the last mission is quite challenging as the game puts you at a civ disadvantage, also showing the limits of central European slow and heavy units. Turns out that a strong approach is indeed taking over enemy units and using them as meat shields... While the original game set no emphasis on monks whatsoever, it's good that mission 1 and 3 has reminded the player that monks can be a strong option, a foreshadowing of what has yet to come.

[@Grossmeister867]

Die ursprüngliche Vertonung der deutschen Version war der Wahnsinn! Unglaublich gut!

[@ArchsageCanas]

Naja... ich weiß nicht ob das voice acting so gut war. Dass es aber Lokalisation mit voice acting im Jahr 1999 gab war ziemlich genial.

[@zackc3767]

The only way to play Barbarossa 6 was to build a maze for the elephants and paladins and convert 200 war elephants.

[@Steve-mx9rr]

I'm curious how good the campaigns in the new Dawn of the Dukes add-on will be.

[@unglaublichRodario]

Ah, yes, the most famous El C (id) campaign.

[@jorgemendezfrike241]

Better order us another round Ornlu!

[@Bloody0range]

I love this series and can't wait for the next video :) I very much agree with Hot Wheels being S tier and also that the civ should have been called Normans (besides it making more sense for the campaign, it wouldn't make people complain as much that they just added "second France" and "second Italy" as new civs :) ). As for the other campaigns, I would probably place both one tier lower, as I try to not factor in my nostalgia and the narrative is probably the least important factor for me.

[@OrnLu_AoE]

I actually lol-ed at "Hot Wheels" tbh 11

[@refur230]

ITS HERE

[@ateium2409]

39:29 Abbasids : Am I a joke to you ?

[@TheGiacomo12345]

Hi Mr. Ornlu, about Hautevilles, S tier no doubt really surprises me the great campaign they made (putting aside the Normandy problem), great narrative and amazing mechanics. El Cid back in my day really likes me, but now fall from grace to C tier, really likes me that was the first campaign narrated by a woman, but today they can improve the mechanic of mercenaries to buy camels, mamelukes, and changing the conquistator for genitor to fit better the "Spanish experience". Barbarossa is our first difference for me it lacks the presence of a Hero and doesn't give you the sensation of power from the Holy Roman Empire, make the Italians missions with more adversaries but weaker could solve this sensation, for me A tier.

[@TheGiacomo12345]

By the way, the narrative of Barbarossa from an old enemy was good for AoE2 but doesn't work for Tamerlan's campaign in my opinion.

[@harooooo1]

i managed to cheese hautevilles 3 by making lots of monks, converting the byzantine army, and then when the only enemy left is the Komnenos, i have him and my hero go into an epic 1v1 fight, while I heal my hero with 10 monks. At the start, my hero is not able to deal enough dmg to bypass the enemy hero's regen, but because of the mechanic that grants my hero bonus attack based on how long he has been fighting, the attack damage ramps up enough to the point that it bypasses the enemy hero's regen.

[@filthydelphiacreations1619]

Lol. I never saw that coming.

[@alexandrearagao6050]

Watching these series, i'm thinking DE has some level of adaptative difficulty I played some of DE's campaings on 'hard' but the enemy factions shown in your videos behave way more agressively than in my playthroughs In El Cid 5 for example, Beringer used no ranged siege against me while in your vid there was at least 2 trebs, which makes life a whole lot harder

[@erkocab]

one more item on Bohemond in the East -- I noted a couple of comments below that indicated with little management it was impossible to lose this scenerio -- having just played this out with little involvement from me other than repaired breached walls in between the waves, and occasionally making a few arbs, along with moving villagers around, I won- and on hard. So those commendts I think are pretty accurate - really have to try to lose this one. Seriously, this scenario needs some major redoing, and as such, along with the really long and ultimately repetitive Bohemond and the Emperor, notwithstanding that I loved the first and second and last scenarios, I have to disagree with your assessment of it as a top tier - maybe A even B???

[@OrnLu_AoE]

That's fine! I can understand why people might like the Hautevilles as much as I do (although I still stick by all of my tier placements so far ;D)

[@notmiscares3918]

I didnt figured out you could finish El Cid Mision 3 that fast, and if you dont do that playing normally against the purple frank army is tought because he gathers the 5 relics of the map and sends armies with up to 5 freaking monks alongside range, close combat and siege units since he has unlimited, fast generated gold, I felt dumb knowing I could just rush the thing with the start army and avoid all of that lol

[@mannycalavera8746]

great video ornlu !!! i recomend the amzon tv show of the cid if you like the caracther.

[@Matt..S]

I'm Swabian. And I disapprove the erasure of Swabians in the Barbarossa campaign. Being replaced by Lorraine...bah humbug!

[@teddyhaines6613]

Bohemund's level has the minor problem that you can cheese it by hiding units at the southern edge of the map where the AI won't find you and just going afk.

[@justinhanna6118]

Odd, when i got robert guiscard to level up his attack became 14-12 so 2, but for you it actually improved.

[@robchang4533]

Hautevilles 4 aka one of the 2 scenarios of LotW where you cant lose LUL. Also I dont understand what is the story of this campaign ? Is it just an anthology of deeds descendants of the Hauteville family have achieved, without any big connecting tissue of suspense ?

[@zayedulalam460]

"AKA one of the 2 scenarios where you can't lose"-wow dude. I don't know how good of a player you are but you don't need to be cocky. Of course it is your personal opinion then don't use "LUL". Players like you are the reason people call a player base toxic. P.S.: Hautevilles 4 is a hard. And, yes it it just an anthology of deeds descendants of the Hauteville family have achieved, without any big connecting tissue of suspense.

[@robchang4533]

@Fabian MEDINA MEDINA not really thats no story but just a anthology of shortstories

[@ethanbrown4167]

whats the other one where you cant lose?

[@robchang4533]

@@ethanbrown4167 Longshanks 2 basically same scenario, and with the same flaw you can win with very little actions and being afk for like 55 minutes

[@Hazel1312]

I put all my hero units in the southeast corner in Hautevilles 4 and then let the timer run out. Didn't have to lift a finger :D Bit of a design flaw I guess. Rest of the campaign is solid S tier for me.

[@ArmandDupin]

It always bothered me that El Cid involved cannon galeons and conquistadores. While El Cid is an important part of european and spanish history, I don't think he was the best suited character for a campaign, given that the Spanish civ mostly represents late middle-age early renaissance Spain. That being said, this is true to some extent for many other civilizations and campaigns. The Franks' axe throwers feel off in Joan of Arc campaign, and so do Woad warriors in William Wallace's. What makes El Cid really weird is that many many campaigns openly state that gunpowder units aren't available because it's too early. And then you play El Cid and spend 3 missions using OP conquistadores and cannon galeons, gunning down everything in the 11th century.

[@khankhomrad8855]

I wonder if there isn't something to be said about keeping a campaign simple and straightforward. One of the reasons why I like the original campaigns and not the newer ones as much is it seems that the FE devs always try to spice the campaigns with unique mechanics or unique scenarios, or have missions be rather long with many objectives.

[@amkathegod8422]

You forgot to say that the 5 Barbarossa scenario has an earthsquake, i think its the only one in the hole game.

[@michaeltaylor8698]

My biggest criticism of the El Cid campaign was definitely the fact you spend a third of it as the Saracens. I'm ok with playing as someone else for one scenario, and narratively it does make sense in the 3rd mission, since you are using Motamid's forces to defend Zaragoza after being kicked out by the Spanish (Alfonso), but it really bugs me that you play as Saracens in the Blackguard mission. You're working for Alfonso again, so by all rights your army should be Spanish, and it also feels out of place to be leading this defence of Spain against Moorish invaders when your army consists of Mamelukes and camels, rather than knights and conquistadors (anachronistic as the latter may be). The final El Cid mission is the only one I really enjoyed, straightforward as it is, because it felt like the only mission where I got to actually play the Spanish civ without constraints, using bombard towers, cannon galleons, paladins and conquistadors. Mission 1 has a memorable opening, but then you just need to snipe a castle with rams or an army of petards. Mission 2 feels boring and I scarcely feels the need to build a town: just run in, grab the relics and get out. Mission 3 is just rather bland and straightforward - the castle roadblock just feels like a time-waster in an otherwise short scenario. Mission 4 is ok but could have been better if you were playing as the Spanish and it was more challenging, and 5 is also ok but nothing to write home about. I know a lot of people have a lot of nostalgia for the E Cid campaign, but even when I was younger I found El Cid to one of the less interesting campaigns. Personally I think the best Spanish mission isn't even in its campaign, its the Lepanto Historical Battle.

[@inconemay1441]

The presence of gunpowder in El Cid is so anachronistic but kid me would hate being deprived of the gunpowder units after being denied them while playing the "tutorial civs" (Britons, Celts, the Joan of Arc campaign also restricted gunpowder until the near tail end of the campaign due to its semi tutorial status)

[@yoursodumn]

Like The Grand Dukes vs. Joan of Arc, it would be cool to have a campaign where you play as Cortez vs. Montezuma.

[@jthfear]

hautevilles is a great and fun campaign for sure, but it doesn't 'sell' the sicilians as a powerhouse of a civ to replay with, especially as it has to rely on giving you buffs/techs that the sicilians DON'T have (genitours in scenario 2, and captured techs from scenario 5 like greek fire, crenellations or regenerating camels, or come to think of it, even having camels in the first place!). for me, a good campaign should accentuate the good things a civs tech tree DOES have, and the hautevilles doesn't.

[@yoursodumn]

Unrelated, but campaign challenge: Defeat the Ming army in Le Loi 2 (it is possible using cannon galleons)

[@vaughanphillips9316]

Yep Barbarossa two is bit lazy for the conquest of Poland. Poland has a few buildings and that's it no villagers or anything like that too.

[@nicholasdalby5178]

You're not being harsh on El Cid, it's been the blandest campaign since it was first released. I love the story, but I had it in D. I rate them: Hautevilles - B El Cid - D Barbarossa - S

[@ateium2409]

Reviewing the campaigns in chronological order is a very good choice . Had you reviewed them expansionwise , I pretty sure everybody would just watch the AoK & AoC ones and leave it at that .

[@nicholasdalby5178]

Henry the Lion is the weakest Barbarossa mission by far. You are correct!

[@quasibrodo923]

no aoe2 civ is a perfection representation of any specific civ for any specific time frame, but aoe2 spanish and el cid are probably the biggest mis-match in the game. I'm not a fan of the recent aoe4 civ variant idea, but that could actually improve el cid.

[@perrytran9504]

El Cid in C tier makes me anxious for where Le Loi would rank on this list... In retrospect though, I agree most of the levels weren't that fun aside from the story.

[@kylewise678]

This is probably just me being bad at the game but I find Barbarossa and Saladin quite challenging just on standard. Specifically Barbarossa 3, 4, and 6 and Saladin 2, 3, 5, and 6

[@OrnLu_AoE]

That's okay!

[@encoreperformance1081]

Hype Hype Hype!

[@cheesewizard3965]

The Emperor Sleeping sucks. If you don’t act fast enough and snipe your enemy at the beginning you slog for hours to win

[@OrnLu_AoE]

Well, at least you can trade with Richard!

[@tarakbouacida746]

I would have put Barbarossa in A tier, but apart from that I fully agree with you. Hautevilles in particular is my favorite campaign ever: I like the originality of gameplay, the originality of the civ, and I like the story very much (I was already a fan of the Hautevilles and their exploits as a history nerd before playing the campaign) El Cid was never my favorite, as a history nerd I felt the dissonance between Spain being a gunpowder age of discovery civ and the context of the campaign to hard. I tend generally to roleplay and avoid gunpowder units when playing campaign scenarios that happen too early for them, but for Spain the UU is gunpowder and is too powerful to not use. Barbarossa is very solid, pacing, gameplay, ambiance, all in all very good. But in general it lacks in originality, and it feels unjust to give it the same ranking as the Hautevilles when comparing the complexity and the depth of the scenarios, nostalgia be damned! :)

[@kunth1819]

While I somewhat agree with your last point, it must be kept in mind that older campaigns were made with limited options in comparison with newer campaigns. I am personally giving older campaigns some slack in my comments because of it and I look at each mission within the campaign so you could have really nice but basic missions like in Barbarossa making the campaign S-tier and then well-crafted missions of Hautevilles but with huge flaws making the campaign B-tier in my opinion.

[@tarakbouacida746]

@@kunth1819 I only judge the campaigns by the enjoyment they gave me, and I have to say I do enjoy newer campaigns (particularly the East Asian ones) more. I am a huge fan of AoE2 and hats off to the original developers who created a masterpiece of a game with an outstanding longevity. But when ranking the campaigns, I try to only base my ranking over the overall enjoyment they bring me. That being said I see where you come from :)

[@Redragonclaws]

Are you going to rate Jan Zizka and Jadwiga?

[@canaksu1771]

can you play a custom campaign called romulus and remus which is about start of rome one scenario but it is fun