AoE4 Commentary - DauT (Mongols) vs Hera (Rus)

[@Finnatese]

Some historical context for the Rus bonuses: Russians expanded into Siberian forests mainly to hunt animal furs, these furs were sold fr huge costs to western Europe. So the hunting huts gathering gold from forest would probably be the hunters in the forest, collecting furs and selling them, I guess. And if the trees are cut down, there are no forest animals to hunt so the gold stops, right?

[@JustisKai]

Cutting down the tree doesn't change the gold income. You could cut down every single tree it touches and still get the same amount.

[@gemsofsteel3648]

As dude said, bonus is setted when you finish building, it doesn't change later on.

[@EliK-u1p]

Russians did not expand beyond the Ural mountains until early 18th century though. The fur trade existed for way longer. In the early Middle Ages the land that is now western Russia, Ukraine and Belarus was still heavily forested and teeming with game, as the only people who really lived there before the Slavs came were sparsely spread Finnish tribes, which the former ended up displacing or assimilating. Which means that their moderately aggressive early game playstyle is kind of appropriate, I guess. Also, really hope we get Finns in aoe one day. Finns are cool, even though watching them drink is scary sometimes.

[@merlball8520]

@@EliK-u1p Early medieval Rus were a mix of Finns and Laplanders, Scandinavians, and Slavs. It was extremely sparsely populated compared to everwhere else west of the Urals. The Scandinavian population increased first, building the first notable cities, then there were centuries of massive Slavic population booms (until Mongol invasion, then resuming during the decline of the Golden Horde). Although there is no written record or cities to unearth to attest to any notable presence, it is reasonable to assume that Finns and Laplanders were the only people living in the area before the medieval period, preceding any notable influx of Scandanavian or Slavic groups.

[@barsni4779]

Amateur historian time! Every time.

[@_naeS]

Loving the AoE4 content! Thanks for the uploads!

[@chemicals8582]

T90 -- "Didn't seem like a lot of farms", yet the Mongols can't actually build farms.

[@citricdemon]

We do not sow!

[@indivix6147]

@@citricdemon The Mongols of yore reaped what others sowed

[@GarrettBShaw]

@@indivix6147 Beautiful

[@davidpereira5969]

dammit, if t90 plays the mongols we won't have t90 farms

[@lawgiver5599]

The “bounty” for the rus is a passive. They gain gold for killing Gaia, deer, wolves, ect.

[@MortalWombat1988]

Seems to work on sheep as well!

[@w0lf149]

Yeah, the stronger the animal more they’ll receive. Sheep are 5points and deer are 10. I feel bad because I just want the points. But there are dead animals scattered everywhere through my village. It’s a sad feeling

[@barsni4779]

Skinned textures of killed animals do not help either.

[@jonathanedwards9981]

@@MortalWombat1988 yeah right a sheep isnt an animal

[@raynightshade8317]

Rus bounty is overtop of their population, it shows how much bounty killing each animal gives and the teirs

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

Gotta say, I feel like AoE4 is could be described as AoE2 with a coat of paint inheriting some genes from classic StarCraft. Fewer, highly different civs. Hitscan projectiles. AoE building effect fields. A lot of opportunities for unit regeneration/repair. Many more unit active abilities. Feels like the kind of game 10-year-old me would have gone "hey this is like two things I like stuck together!" to.

[@mar_sh4617]

Honestly the hitscan makes more sense. Without it archers are incredibly useless as a unit and it shows with how little they would be used in AOE2

[@thepersonwhocomentz]

@@mar_sh4617 Personally I think I'd like a compromise on projectiles in AoE4: >cut the tracking in half so it doesn't visually look like everyone has telekinetic projectiles >check for a direct hit with a generous hitbox >if it doesn't hit, count it as a glancing blow and deal half damage

[@robglenn4844]

@@mar_sh4617 Hitscan is much more realistic as well. No real general could save his troops from arrows by telling them to "just dodge better." They countered arrows by having better armour, better tactics, and big shields. By being prepared, rather than ordering their men to "get gud." Don't get me wrong - skillful micro is undoubtably a beautiful art to witness. The problem is that "micro" is just a game quirk rather than a real option open to real commanders.

[@johannesmajamaki2626]

@@robglenn4844 MEN, SPPLIIIIT!!!! ...fuck, was half a second too late in yelling that. I guess this is the end....

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

@@thepersonwhocomentz this is interesting concept though i dont know if they could code it properly

[@ryanrodgers3099]

Initially I missed the decay for animals, but it does open some interesting design space. Rus getting gold from killing animals would be obnoxious if there was food decay. As it stands, there's not really "laming" and in some ways you kind of help your enemy if they don't have to take the villager time to kill things, that really only comes up with the boar, but still. I would like to see arrows actually miss (especially on Mangudai and the like) to open up some better micro opportunities, but it's not the end of the world.

[@bvddh]

The real laming is locked behind a feudal tech, but it's definitely possible. I've stolen all 14 of someones deer right when they were building a mill before just by building a bunch of scouts from hunting cabins.

[@FatalExit]

You can actually lame people by building buildings on their small berry bushes and docks on their fish. I want to test in a VS AI game sometime if you could create a Ger or Outpost as Mongols, pack it up and then roll it to the enemy base and pack and unpack it repeatedly to destroy all their small berries, would be brutal against Delhi or Abbasid as those are like 500 food each.

[@MedievalSolutions]

@@FatalExit That's evil, I like that. Only issue I got with it is, that in the current state there is a bug, which makes packed up buildings move at crazy speeds with the speed upgrade from an ovoo, so I do advise caution with how effective it feels to you (villagers can burn buildings down relatively fast and with the speeds fixed, the packed up buildings won't be faster than a wheelbarrow villager).

[@gwanael34]

What I would rather see is melee units also being a le to hit while.moving. Just imagine your knights fighting as they are riding alongside the mangudais. Or sending light cav after cav archers and them running the enemy down without stopping.

[@Lapouchy]

I do think the arrows never missing would've been a lot less controversial if the arrows just flew a lot faster so you wouldn't notice the awkward homing missile system changing their angle mid air.

[@TheDukeofDorks]

Just throwing out that from a design perspective, AoE4 absolutely should not have decay because of how certain bonuses (Mainly the Rus showcased here) interact with hunting animals. That unique spin on the Rus's design wouldn't be able to exist in its current state without decay being removed. Same with scouts being able to carry hunts back to safety, that adds additional micro into the game that's further incentivized by the lack of decay. I'm not as fond of 100% accurate arrows, but that being the case allows for the Mangudai's powerful attack-while-moving, that also wouldn't work in AoE2 because a target that's always chasing the Mangudai (And therefore always moving) would never get hit by them, making the bonus pointless. I still prefer AoE2 overall (Zero friendly fire on siege is just not fun to me), but it is an interesting case study of how removing those gameplay features allows others to be expanded on, and it definitely helps AoE4 create a separate identity from 2, which I'd argue is important!

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

I think the big one you mentioned is the no friendly fire on siege. Late game is just a siege weapon fest. And there is no real drawback without the friendly fire

[@Lapouchy]

I think the no friendly fire siege is there because friendly fire really promotes ranged units and disincentivizes infantry. I could see exceptions to this rule being possible, but not as a game wide change.

[@neildutoit5177]

the dope thing about mongol market is if you move it the trade carts auto redirect. so you can put it next to oovo, make 100 carts, then move it as far away as you want for extra res

[@MedievalSolutions]

that's a neat detail

[@DoporaBHe6o]

AOE4 seems like a solid game despite cartoonish looks. I really miss the RTS era and hope strategy games make a comeback somehow.. step by step. Thank you for quality content!

[@almightyhydra]

8000 to 19000 gold collected... That trade route going untouched was such a huge factor

[@MrMatthewKerr]

I really love watching with you T90. I know you’re learning. But I am also. I’m an avid watcher of you AE2, and also not a player. So to be starting with you and reading instructions as you go is just great for me. But . . . Where’s the chat log? The chat log is always funny. Thanks bro.

[@jesseparker2656]

T90: "Where does it talk about hunting cabin (info)? *Hovers his cursor over it at **15:00* *Closes tech tree window at **15:03* T90: "I don't want to hold you guys up too much" Me: Meh.

[@MedievalSolutions]

yeah T90 has real aversion to hovering over things... It actually makes it hard to watch these videos, maybe because I'm used to T90 knowing more than me about the game he's casting.

[@tankofnova9022]

Using only springlds to break buildings is what ended the Rus here. The game tells you in plain text that they deal crap building damage. They are an anti siege siege unit.

[@ryanrodgers3099]

agreed. You can chip away at buildings from range with Springalds, but Hera really didn't have the luxury of being able to just sit there with them and idling his knights while Daut made new military. Needed to push them forward to kill army and eco.

[@MedievalSolutions]

yeah, springalds deal 10 damage to buildings per shot - with some quick math that makes TCs take 500 shots before being broken... way too slow. Yet springalds are really good siege units to defend your trebs/bombards (iirc 3 springald shots are enough to kill any land unit besides elephants, so they're really valuable ranged units and have resistance against ranged units).

[@tankofnova9022]

@@MedievalSolutions Or maybe to have as defense behind walls. Long range, bonus against siege and enough base damage to make fleshy units think twice.

[@grandgibbon2071]

@@ryanrodgers3099 couple rams would have been real clutch honsetly.

[@Metroyeti17]

I almost wonder if the resistance to having adjustable hotkeys up front is intentional to help new players not get steamrolled by AOE2 players. It'd be a stupid strat, but a believable one.

[@christiananderson5664]

Sure, but at the end of the day its probably an oversight or a cost/benefit decision

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

I think your right yeti. By making players play on the same controls any advantages on muscle memory can be erased

[@doouug]

Also forces the player base to learn the same hot keys and probably makes it easier for them to streamline future content and tutorials etc.

[@HiroTeaShi]

Relic games have always been very bad about having customizable hotkeys. It's always been a thing with their releases

[@axesofebil]

I know from Valve they had a hangup on the game looking different from a streamer POV than the vanilla one. I'd imagine Microsoft had the same thoughts, with early access keeping things as uniform as possible makes it easier for new players to follow along. I'd imagine they will be added down to road after the initial hype has died down to draw people back in.

[@trygveplaustrum4634]

From what I'm seeing of it, I like AoE4. I also like and play AoE3, so take that as you will.

[@CottidaeSEA]

It seems far easier to find the information you're looking for in AoE4 compared to previous games, which in my opinion is the best part. Haven't played it yet though, so this is just based off what I've seen in videos.

[@cjc2010]

I'm liking AoE4 too (watching and playing). And I HATED AoE3.

[@leow193]

@@CottidaeSEA With no global unit queue, and the fact that you have to put the mouse on the icons in the market to see how many it cost, your point is invalid

[@matheus-kirchesch]

You are right, the score is horrible, even for AoE2, it very often gives you exactly where your opponent is

[@MedievalSolutions]

not to worry, score in aoe4 is utterly broken, so you can't rely on it anyways, haha.

[@matheus-kirchesch]

@@sa-mp5iw You have a weird definition of fun

[@osama_ben_biden]

Dault should have build tower along the trade road to take advantage of the Mongol Yam system. Any unit inside the influence of a tower gets 15% mouvement speed and for 20 secs when they exit it. So you build tower on the road to speed up your traders.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

That's a really good point!

[@ruler898]

For projectiles i feel like the 100% accuracy isnt bad, this game has a lot more complexities with unit abilities and such. SC2 never had projectiles missing and is still extremely micro heavy. I always felt like the micro of arrow dodging in aoe 2 was nuts but kind of gimmicking and I think it would be my biggest gripe about high level aoe2. I think this game has a lot of micro potential with abilities and using ambush forests and such. Some may say its not realistic, however thats wrong. People didn't "dodge" arrows really in history, just blocked them or they missed, them always hitting for a game is fine.

[@the_rover1]

imagine being a french knight charging the english positions at Crecy, dodging arrows on the way there lmao 🤣

[@JWonn]

It only gets weird when you see cannonballs changing direction mid-flight to hit their target

[@HistoricalWeapons]

I always see it as one unit representing 10-1000 units

[@acidperson7983]

I can watch Mangudai fight for hours. Actually-fighting-while-galloping horse archers are my favorite.

[@loglog7]

I haaaaate them so much. Probably because I’m just getting back into RTS but mobile machine guns that actively counter the things that are supposed to counter them (spears, that are slower) is such crap.

[@brubie7584]

@@loglog7 Well all of the cav archers are really good vs spears, camels also destroy them. They were really good in aoe2 too with some micro. Archers are the main counter to mangudai atm

[@Lex-dw7ng]

@@loglog7 The counter to Mangudai is massed archers early on, mangonels later. Spearmen were never the counter to cav archers - they were already weak to regular archers so running at an archer that moves faster is not a winning proposition, whether it's Mangudai or regular horse archers. You need to use the short range of the cav archers to put damage in to them with your own ranged units. Also, screen with men at arms, NOT spears. Too many AoE 2 players are coming in and just ignoring the men at arms but against anything but crossbows you'll get decent value out of them, and they're practically immune to regular archer fire.

[@loglog7]

@@Lex-dw7ng Ok thanks, I never played aoe2 I'm coming from sc2 but like 8 years ago so relearning a whole game is hard but it's fun.

[@aaronhansen2955]

Another great game!!! Thanks for taking so much effort to learn this, its a more complex game than aoe2 since every civ is sooo different so i really appreciate it, love u t90

[@ietsbram]

Sigh T90 needs to go watch spitit of the laws guide on the rus

[@Conflicteddd]

AOE4 is more enjoyable to watch. There I said it

[@citricdemon]

I agree!

[@Toonrick12]

No trash wars. Nuff said.

[@poptartsmcgee1992]

The game itself has potential to be better than AoE2, but it lacks variety in its civs.

[@matthewtaylor4453]

T90 wants aoe4 to be exactly like aoe2 so bad lol

[@aaeraag5724]

Yeah he is definitely having the most trouble adjusting out of anyone in the community. He is the least passionate caster by far. I hope he adapts soon enough

[@123Juniiorr]

I feel that Ao2 players are slowly realizing that spamming a single unit type is a great way to be countered a single springald is enough to shift the battle against mangudai

[@sidharthsinhku371]

I love watching these aoe4 videos because its recently that I have restarted playing aoe2 def edition and used to watch t90 for so long and watching these aoe4 videos feel like even he is learning stuff in this like us. Feels wholesome 😊😊

[@themudreco]

It didn't look fair, Hera didn't have the game sense/knowledge about the meta to know that trade is such a strong option in 1 v 1.

[@aaeraag5724]

Hera is currently in the top 50 in the rankings

[@tristanreimers423]

@@aaeraag5724 but daut has played AOE4 alooooot more than hera, hera isnt just going to know things simply because aoe4 is an aoe game

[@morantNO1]

Aoe4 Mangudai with micro counter all melee units, but all other ranged unit outclass them in range and damage. Also, Hera's whole army would have been hardcountered by spearmen. But DauT had enough money to just build more knights, that ofc also works. (Btw, Lancers and Knights are the same unit in AoE 4)

[@Jovian999]

Rus have some nice early defensive bonuses but they really want to be aggressive. The wooden fortresses and better palisades are great for securing resources, checkpoints and the like but aren't a substitute for stone walls when castle and imperial siege rolls in.

[@TheHotrod03]

T90... I am very sorry to say this but I kinda feel like it needs to be said. Just know that I am saying because I love watching you.... I work a full time job and hardly have time to play but I know more about AOE4 than you do. Please put in the effort to learn... I want to learn from you like I do in AOE2

[@sweet333333]

You do realize T90's full time job is AOE2 right? Not to mention the infancy this game is currently in. Even with your full time job and minimal playing, it's a bold assumption that T90 has nothing else to do but learn AOE4 for your benefit. Relax and enjoy the content.

[@ianian830901]

Well,I watch whatever t90 upload

[@teddyhaines6613]

@@sweet333333 Also, these games were played on the 27th, I'm pretty sure, so if T90 was casting them all live, then he wouldn't have time to learn much between the games and probably does know a lot more about how it all works by now.

[@siemonblidener652]

@@sweet333333 casting is his job and a well paid one, too. So he could make the effort and write down a few notes on game mechanics and civ boni before the game.

[@TheHotrod03]

@@sweet333333 Well with his comments of saying that he was going to cast AOe4 and the fact that he is casting AOE4 I just hoped he would have put more effort into it, but he is free to do as he pleases. I am just finding myself watching Aussie Drongo and Turin now. They both came form other games and will probably return to them, yet they are on top of their game and know a lot about the game. T90 expressed in this Video that he doesn't learn games very fast. So that is fine. He can do what he wants, but I do wish he would put more effort into AOE4. We can all dream right?

[@adilk9442]

"Viewers need to help me" after the switch to fb : which viewers dude :D

[@Borgnrox]

How much did the viewercount change?

[@hassam363]

Microsoft you need to increase the zoom

[@joshuakuehn]

AND THE POP COUNT

[@jonathanedwards9981]

the whole video is t90 being too stubborn to spend 30 mins learning new hotkeys

[@pedromadrigali187]

Amazing game, thanks T90

[@paulharsh78]

That wolf description says “Bitey Infantry” 😂

[@mushfiqurrahman1107]

10:28 man this has been shown even in the trailers I believe. From the start of the game this is how the Khan was shooting

[@johnsolo1701d]

T90, could you use some generic key-remapping software to change your hotkeys while in AoE4 until they add remapping into the game?

[@AtomicArtumas]

I've always questioned everyone that complains about BASIC keymapping (combos are another issue entirely as they're rarely "easy" to remap externally, like ctrl-shift-b, etc.) Like, AHK exists, you can download a basic full keyboard remapping script for it completely free from tons of resources, and then it's literally as simple as running the AHK script prior to launching whatever it is you need to remap. Costs literally nothing, Is literally as simple as editing a config file in notepad pretty much to customize, and doesn't remap anything on the system level.

[@ilikecanes]

Really appreciated the pauses to look at civ bonuses! I'm still trying to learn the game but I can't play it yet so those situations, at least until you know the bonuses like the back of your hand, help tons!

[@Borgnrox]

T90 is such an aoe4 noob now, bless him

[@fuzzy-02]

T90 the resource brought back by the traders increases exponentially with the increase of the trade route distance...so the longer the trade route the more resources you generate, and the mongols can dish out x2 trades with the gold price of 0.5

[@thestokes91]

increases linearly, not exponentially. Right?

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

@@thestokes91 its definetly not true exponential but its not linear definetly has some curve to it

[@toxications]

This does not look like a premium 60 dollar game. This is AOE2 with a reskin and the graphics of AOE - online look better than this game. I'll wait until this game flops or costs the price I want to pay.

[@TheCredibilityGap]

there are icons just above the units heathbar hover over them and it shows you any passives the unit has

[@thisnameisnotfake517]

I'm in the same boat with the hotkeys. Took sooo long to get comfortable with aoe2 keys and find a setup that works for me

[@AtomicArtumas]

Just look into AHK unless whatever hotkey you're having an issue with is a weird combo, provided AoE4's anti-cheat doesn't pick it up for harmless remapping for... some dumb reason. (It's script base and technically allows macros/low-level botting/etc., but like 99% of people just use it for key remapping, auto-clickers and similar.)

[@panimala]

Love the videos, but honestly some research would make these so much better. The "f it we'll do it live" vibe is very strong which is a shame because this is a brand new game

[@r4a5a88]

the powerup at the beginning was a ability of the Kahn. he can give them a speed buff or attack buff. ther is a third one but I forgot it

[@christopherrossa1619]

T90 I love your streams. But trust me when I say you need to just play each Civ once vs an AI and look at all the stuff to learn it. It would make watching your casts ten thousand times more entertaining. Trust me!

[@aaeraag5724]

T90, eventually you need to stop worrying about Aoe4 vs Aoe2 and start evaluating the quality of your own casts. Frankly these are the worst Aoe4 casts out of all of them, right in a moment where you have casters and streamers from Total War, Starcraft and even Aoe3 and AoM entering the scene.

[@brubie7584]

To be fair he's just doing this on his stream where most of his viewers want him to do AOE2 so he hasn't really put any time into learning AOE4. If he was actually casting a real tourney Im sure actual prep work would be done.

[@aaeraag5724]

@@brubie7584 Yes he is the best at it when he wants to

[@tsch0ek618]

who would you recommend to watch aoe4 casts?

[@thestokes91]

I am surprised by how many things T90 doesn't know about this game, considering it's his job to stream it. Maybe he's also been streaming AoE2 stuff and thus hasn't spent the entire time on AoE4? And to clarify I'm not complaining, he'll soon be a fount of knowledge of the game, I'm just surprised.

[@tristanreimers423]

aoe4 has been out for 6 days what the fuck did you expect

[@ritwikreddy5670]

​@@tristanreimers423 many streamers who don't even play aoe games are now more knowledgeable than t90 on aoe4. This should be an indication that he is slow in that regard.

[@whiteegger2565]

I see why the design changes are made just from this game. 1. If food decay is still a thing then playing rus and raid your side of the map killing all the animals will be really frustrating because you gain nothing and rus gain gold. Without decay he essentially did the hunting for you for money. 2. If arrow misses mongudais will be extremely broken as harass unit since they can survive very long in your base without dying to your ranged units and TH and your melee units can't chase them. Those changes are very well thought, well balanced changes. I like it.

[@Eaode]

on the note of complexity/optimization etc I think the types of complexity they are getting rid of (eg no food decay, no missed arrows) are honestly good. These things are frustrating to deal with even if the end result is something hone-able. The problem is these mechanics aren't particularly engaging and feel punishing especially to people who may not understand what's going wrong or why. I will say tho i think archers missing (and becoming 100% accurate with like, a ballistics upgrade) would be cool from a flavor/historical perspective. The problem with missing specifically though is it's either RNG-based which is generally anticompetitive, or it's a set of invisible rules causing your units to be useless. The types of complexity they are **adding**, on the other hand, are great types of complexity. New abilities, more civ diversity and unique mechanics specific to individual civs makes the choice feel more impactful, the gameplay more engaging, and (so long as the balance isn't ass) will also make the meta more diverse.

[@AtomicArtumas]

Definitely agree with this - There's a reason missable projectiles are so rare in true RTS games (Stuff like Total war are completely different beasts, and stuff like XCOM are TBS, not RTS.) - It's just a needless layer of complexity that is rarely immediately noticed by the player. And while some other games have it (Stronghold, for example) most of those games have very specific design aspects that lend themselves to it - Something AoE2 never actually had. And it's not like it actually removes micro, it just changes micro. Starcraft has existed for a long, LONG time with a HUGE competitive scene with basically hitscan projectiles. And Micro is still entirely a thing there. It just changes it - It's more about keeping units alive, movement, targeting, etc. rather than trying to play dodgeball.

[@crimsongoldeagle8868]

I think you might be looking at the never miss thing the wrong way. Let's say an archer shoots an arrow every 1 second, with a 10% chance of hitting and dealing 10 damage. Then just think of that archer as having an average DPS of 1. Now I know what you're probably thinking. You're probably thinking that it'd be bad if an archer miss decides a fight. The thing is, most times I see archers, they're in a group of 10 - 30. Those kinds of numbers basically remove the idea of RNG deciding a fight. As for the part about people not understanding, I feel that if you're of the rank where you're fighting people who use micro to dodge arrows... You probably already know that it's possible. (that or you'll learn pretty quick when seeing enemy armies moving around like crazy) But yeah, it's just another skill to learn. So in the end, I think it just depends on the person. If you're really into micro, you'll probably think the idea of being able to get so good at it that you can dodge arrows is crazy cool. But if you're more into macro, then it probably just seems like an annoying side thing to have to learn or else you'll get destroyed at higher ranks.

[@Eaode]

@@crimsongoldeagle8868 the thing is, every player will experience their arrows missing/their units being useless much more and much earlier than they experience the feeling of intentionally dodging enemy fire. Secondly, if you have ever tried to fire at a unit just.... Waking around your base in early game in aoe2 you would know that the miss chance is really high in some circumstances. And also there are many fights with decisive consequences in an rts that feature a _small_ amount of units, like 3-10. It's simply not something that averages out on the scale of a single fight, until you're talking about actual army numbers. ANYTHING can be "just another skill to learn". Those skills can be fun and engaging and interesting, or those skills can be unintuitive and silly and frustrating. In the context of an established game, the players _do_ just have to deal with whatever skills are required, and git gud..... But that isn't the context of this conversation. This is about game design for a new entry in an RTS series. Making decisions about WHICH skills and techniques are healthy for the game is perfectly valid. I think legacy/hardcore players of competitive games can get overly attached to specific skills in their genre (even if the experience of having to learn them in the first place is unpleasant), and view losing them as a loss in game depth, while ignoring that the game has also gained depth and complexity in completely new (and sometimes more interesting and less frustrating) ways. And I say that as a competitive gamer, maybe not of RTS games (though I love spectating high level RTS play) but of fighting games. People in that community also blow up when devs simplify their previously arcane design decisions, without acknowledging that having 4 redundant and completely separate systems that have the same design goal is silly even if it does add skill-based complexity. (Ftr I'm taking mainly about GGST not SFV or anything. There are also ofc bad ways to simplify. I know that from experience as a smash player haha)

[@crimsongoldeagle8868]

​@@Eaode Sorry I'm replying this late. But, I think a good way to think about micro and macro is as percentages. I'd say that currently AoE2 is 70% macro and 30% micro, where as AoE4 is maybe 85% macro and 15% micro. I think each player also has an enjoyment percentage relating to how much they enjoy micro and macro. If 70% of your enjoyment of an RTS is the macro, and 30% of it is the micro, then you'll probably like AoE2 most. However, if 85% of your enjoyment of an RTS is macro, and 15% is micro, you might enjoy AoE4 more. Right? Now you might still be thinking that dodging arrows is just too insane for micro. That it just seems like a complete bother to learn, and besides the point of the game. But I'd just say that probably means you enjoy macro way more than you enjoy micro. But here are a few examples: In AoE2 you can also dodge mangonel shots. It's way easier than dodging arrows right? Is this too much micro? Or is it fine? What about in AoE4 though? Someone could get really good at being able to micro their knights around spearmen to get to the archers in the back. Is that too much micro? So I think those sorts of examples show why I feel 'too much micro' just depends on the person.

[@legendaryoutcast4440]

only thing i dislike in the game and i think is a pretty huge dislike is homing projectiles

[@citricdemon]

As far as i can tell: same! Plus villager Melee is right out, for everyone except the English..

[@Inspectorzinn2]

Eh I don't know, for us mortals who aren't micro gods, its nice

[@robglenn4844]

It's more realistic, in the sense that a general cannot just order his men to "dodge the arrows better." He has to deal with arrow fire with intelligent tactics instead, or suffer the casualties for it.

[@bogdanbogdanoff5164]

@@robglenn4844 Barking up the wrong tree. They could still make all the arrows correctly lead, and 10% of the arrows miss and it wouldn't look so dumb

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

@@bogdanbogdanoff5164 makes balancing units quite hard when variables like dmg output change. I for one like it, it allows that apm to be used elsewhere

[@BAGG8BAGG]

You do realize you could use a program like auto-hotkey or something to remap AoE2 binds to output to AoE4 binds. Might be worth looking into.

[@agranat42]

There is an option to always show heathbars and show them when unit damaged.

[@jhcode]

@T90 Blind 11 in 'overview' tab you can replay the game

[@sayftysayfty4228]

You can show the score and a timer as a spectator with f11 or something.

[@keeganjacobs5913]

how can i play a game and then rewind to see how opponent or i did ? Like a recorded game?

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

19:50 you're not supposed to actually _release_ unfinished, that's supposed to be beta or early access. Big engine things and notable control changes should not be something you add as post-release update; those are supposed to be again, alpha, beta, early access.

[@AtomicArtumas]

....adding in game-level key remapping is a notable control change that shouldn't happen post-release? News to me, considering the sheer amount of games over the past decade that this has been a thing for, as well as literally consoles adding the feature post-launch on a system level. I agree with "big" engine changes, though those are questionable as-to what even consitutes as big, or even an engine change, but control changes are fine, especially in the face of feedback that the majority of your playerbase perhaps dislikes the base control scheme.

[@pallingtontheshrike6374]

@@AtomicArtumas There's a pretty big difference between adding a single control (or even a few) scheme(s), whether or not for a new platform, vs making it so that the hotkeys can all be edited and the layout saved. It doesn't help that this is more like SC2, where it's multiple not-entirely-symmetric races with a number of unique units and buildings, rather than say AoE2, where 95% of everything was shared between at least 2 civs, and you could excuse having one hotkey for the same thing on both civs. You'd really have to build the full chart and dict and shit. Resulting in quite a bit more work to make the editor than just making a couple new schemes (just n dicts and drop down menu) and significantly more work than rebinding for most other genres of games. Many games have fewer than 10 keys, and rarely do rpg/shooter/open world games have more than 20-30. RTS games are expected to have hotkeys for: making/removing ctrl groups, selecting all of a type, choosing to make x unit, choosing x upgrade, choosing x building, choosing x formation, etc. Even in AoE2, there are... over 13 unit classes (too lazy to count precisely) and over another 13 building types, what, 5 formations? you get the point. Already over the count for most non-rts games, and not even close to done. on the other hand: Big engine changes is mostly the projectiles, always hit if in range -> hits position and does collision check is a pretty big gap in calculations. If they didn't commit any bricks, they should be able to port over the system from AoE2. The problem is, did they commit bricks? :\

[@chriswhite702]

I can't finish the video, it's honestly annoying me that T90 doesn't know about this game. I know we are all learning and it is new, but somehow all the other casters/content creators have it figured out at least a lot better than this. Maybe it works for some, but not really for me.

[@citricdemon]

It would be better if he did more of his homework..

[@aaeraag5724]

The problem I think is he doesn't want to learn. Other casters are leaving him in the dust.

[@chriswhite702]

@@aaeraag5724 Yeah, might be best if he sticks to AoE2, he is a good AoE2 caster in all honesty.

[@Guardias]

Hera is killing me with those un-upgraded Wooden Fortresses.

[@ekimoleksander6068]

Nice

[@veasnatdm4861]

Age of Empire $ seem to focus more on individual aspect than AOE 2, which has most civ to be very similar with slight difference.

[@ClassyAssassin0]

Tbh aoe4 looks morr fun to me that aoe2, the price tag is just to steep

[@UnchartedNL]

Gamepass

[@BeckJoseR]

Mongols don't actually have access to Lancers in Age II. It's either a typo or a bug

[@Velaroz]

Outposts/wooden fortresses give a lot of sight range. The Khan gives as much sight range as a scout. Early on, he's weaker than a normal scout--but he shoots on the move like a Mangudai. Just a lot weaker. The signal arrows are exclusive from each other--only one can be used at a time.

[@TJanzen]

I like aoe4

[@tylercoombs1]

Twitch Viewer: "$15 Hotkey DLC" T90: " Ha ha, no i don't think that will ever happen." Microsoft: "Hold my beer!"

[@nathanvienneau9422]

The Rus needs more wood from vills for their version of the outposts. Their scouts can get the gold by killing gaia to advance to feudal before even needing to build a mining camp

[@nathanvienneau9422]

Sheep, deer, boar and wolves gives gold and increases bounty

[@augustoveiga9105]

t90 seems to be so far behind other people on game knowledge, (even some who where mainly StarCraft 2 players) and hes constantly complaining over the littlest things,its like hes not even trying to learn the game,i dont know if he didnt like the game,or whats going on but its getting anoying.

[@harrihaffi2713]

AoE2 seems superior

[@neildutoit5177]

is it not possible to change "current resources" to "villis on resource" in the display?

[@tobiasfeil1993]

I love your content, but the video could have been of higher quality if you'd just scrapped this recording and created it again, this time having all the information that you gained while recording it for the first time.

[@Gui101do]

There was no Daut about it!

[@jonathanedwards9981]

you can equip power armor to lancers

[@veasnatdm4861]

That new siege unit was what scorpion was suppose to be. It a anti unit siege.

[@levs4347]

bro when someones attacking why not to show the attack

[@peterlarson233]

Rus laming deer isn't so annoying with no decay though, right?

[@gemsofsteel3648]

You can reaserch tech that allows scouts to move dead animals, they can be really annoying with that xD

[@vmox7453]

its no laming, they get gold from each kill.

[@Darkcamera45]

T90 I’d suggest reading up on the civs before the game 😂😂

[@coltodude5778]

Not sure its quite that easy to memorize every civ bonus in the game from just a couple readings, much less understand exactly how that affects gameplay based on the text description

[@Darkcamera45]

No I’m saying he gets confused about stuff that’s pretty much common knowledge like the bounty system

[@minikawildflower]

I wonder if the facing mechanic for siege will turn out to be a big deal. If Daut was able to send lancers around and attack the Springalds from behind, would they be able to turn and fire? Or could you get in close without them sniping down your army?

[@allenantonioheyllatorre5720]

One issue is there are no stances in aoe4. If youbjust move your siege it will sit and do nothing ever. If you attack move it willl fight til it gets to a certain point and then set up and be on stand ground mode basically if it gets flanked it has to tear down and set up again the springold is one that may be able to get a shot off on cav, and sometimes mangonels,but just 1 shit depending on your dmg to the siege. Your units cav archer and infantry are always in defensive the only other mode is standground/no attack stance. So it is quite easy to pull a unit towards you if the other player isnt paying attention

[@kiwiblood6528]

i want this game so bad look clean asfuck

[@ngergely1277]

Wolves goes brrr when you leave your craddle of civ :D

[@MelvinIsMerlin]

Better strategic play than 90% of your aoe 2 vods, buddy.

[@riotmode666]

where do i find these replays, i want to watch and learn by my own , thank you!

[@bettergreenthenright]

T90 really doesn't know anything about aoe4 and is learning so slowly, missing so much. Pretty frustrating

[@GarrettBShaw]

I find it entertaining and probably helps those of us who are not naturally gifted to see and respect the grind. Vs just feeling that others instantly get it and we don't

[@Lapouchy]

I don't know if it's doable and if it is ethical if facebook shows your name, but having chat on the screen back would be very much appreciated.

[@lightningv46]

I think arrows should be dodgeable, but not all of them. TCs being auto hit i think provides a good safety net to stop new players being owned straight away, but units etc should be able to miss to allow higher skill caps

[@grapegod6646]

Fyi demo ships are by far the most broken units in the game. Two will burn your whole fleet

[@SoulTransient]

I lost 7 fishing ships to it smh

[@grapegod6646]

@@SoulTransient Their blast radius is so large

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

The Khan, yeah Interesting that it's only those horse archers that move and fire.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

So he fought knights and didn't use spearman or at least lancers. It's not surprising he lost that engagement. Nor did he really go after the anti-seige weapons. Lots of learning going on all around.

[@slydiogenes8796]

can you make a modicum of effort to learn the basics before you cast the game? watching you forget stuff you just read and constantly pause the game is just painful. Other creators covering this game have properly learned the civs and just explain the mechanics for anyone watching as the game progresses.

[@blackdragoncyrus]

14:55 - Oh, no, T90 is blind. D=

[@leow193]

Might be a stupid thing to say, but if they are ready to play AOE IV, why did they never try to do some games on AOE online as well ? (It's not dead, check project celeste, they revived it and added a new civ and even plan to release another one soon)

[@nathanielnizard2163]

The game died 9 years ago and I don't even know how you'd salvage this pile of crap.

[@leow193]

@@nathanielnizard2163 you'd be surprised. Check the roman trailer they did. All of it is now free

[@shinershawn6053]

AOE4 LETS GO!!!

[@brian8861]

People were forced to upgrade their gpu? im still on a 970, no problems here

[@z.p9997]

Moving and shooting and no dodging projectiles completely changes the combat and micro, not even age of empires anymore.

[@nathanvienneau9422]

Mmmm... I liked it more when T90 knew more about AOE than me XD

[@nathanvienneau9422]

Probably still whoop my ass in 1v1 though

[@nathanvienneau9422]

Click the market to see traders

[@bernardoportela8076]

Man I love T90 on Aoe2, but I really wish he would learn just a little about AoE4 before producing commentary videos... Seems so amateurish to not know how mangudai fire while moving, mongols not having farms, or the Rus bounty mechanic. Makes it look like very low effort content

[@omez9275]

Distance effects trade return.

[@f40734]

Fun Fact: Kurultai is kinda senate for Huns and Mongols those days

[@Orgil.]

actually kurultai means meeting

[@f40734]

@@Orgil. means meeting too

[@Orgil.]

@@f40734 ?

[@ConnorOfDestruction]

Soon, Me and my fellow linux gamers will be able to partake

[@darkranger116]

Aside from the invadable civ balance patches, I think the game would be a lot better if ranged attacks had meaningful Accuracy percentages again. As well as, you know, building garrisons being able to actually protect people from damage.

[@MedievalSolutions]

I feel like at this point, introducing accuracy changes to archers (and potentially springalds and ships) would break the game balance and would need massive adjustments to damage numbers. Not sure if the devs want to bother with that - especially since if they balance the game as is, they can still make archer civs competetive, but not too easy to play.

[@darkranger116]

@@MedievalSolutions I don't think it would be that hard imho. Age of Empires has kept a consistent record of unit stats that are from 1-3 points of dmg from changing outcomes, and after playing aoe4, i think it has maintained that thin balance between damage and armor values being the difference between a dead unit, and a unit with 5% HPs left. I think having every ranged unit have a specific accuracy rating at specific ages would be the simplest approach. 75% Accuracy in dark, 85% in feudal, 95% in castle, and 100% accuracy in Imperial Age. Allow 100% accuracy to still be a thing, but make it something people have to achieve. And the simplest counter balance to this imo would be an increase to the Bonus Damage to counters for all ranged units. +1 or +2 Damage could cover up the difference lost from missed shots.

[@blitzmonster1]

Bro no custom hockeys, and projectiles always hitting. This sucks