AoS 4.0 Manifestations & Battle Tactics - Warhammer Weekly 05012024

Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! This week, we are breaking down the news on Magic Endless spells and Battle Tactics in Age of Sigmar 4.0.
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0:00 News
28:00 Pick of the Week
31:40 Hobby Time
41:30 AoS News
1:45:30 Battle Tactics

[@reubenmccallum3350]

Liked for Vince's emotional honesty

[@itsjustj6205]

I hit the like button and my credit score improved

[@davetrack2950]

I hit the like button and now I have come to terms with my mortality but appreciate the beautiful moments that make life precious.

[@itsjustj6205]

Get off my lawn

[@alexandrudorries3307]

This conversation wonderfully illustrates of the duality of man.

[@dariuschoksy6934]

I hate looking at an army and being like “oh that is not too expensive” and then remembering I need to spend a other $120 on endless spells and faction terrain

[@alanwesley598]

Now that terrain can move I'm more than ever want The crimson keep for SBGL Kastelai

[@mjcathcart]

I hit the like button and Vince became Denethor.

[@rowandecker8473]

That Darkoath lore section has the tribes pledging now to 5 gods, one of which was named Shadow-In-The-Moon(as per that specific tribe). So we've officially got humans worshipping Rat deities fwiw.😁

[@eltrumpeteer]

I love that they brought this over from 10th edition of 40k. It was one of the smartest things GW has come up with, and I can't believe it took so long. But I'm glad it's here for 40k, and about to be for AOS. I just hope they give us an Ironjawz Spearhead soon.

[@borisdevilboon8064]

I hit the like button and my nuln oil unspilled itself!

[@willcorcoran]

Just started a new job, and I immediately have to go through Objective Setting, Performance Planning and Individual Development Plan, by ref to Core Competencies and Values. Hadn't had the pleasure in anout 7 years. 2 weeks in, I'm tempted to go back to freelancing. I spent all of 3rd feeling like BTs reminded me of something...

[@SkullBusiness]

Came for the insightful discussion of AOS mechanics, stayed for the Record of Lodoss War callback

[@theDackjanielz]

they should deeply consider doing the battle tactics from spearhead in the main game if you ask me, you either get to do a command ability or go for the objective score.

[@danbrugman4838]

I'm of two minds on battle tactics. On the one hand i get the extra layer problem, but for less tactically minded players, they do help get them out of the "mash in the middle" and "I stood on the magic potato" mindsets.

[@2Tough]

Clicking the like Like button is what keeps my head of hair lush and voice smooth. 10/10, would suggest doing it🎉

[@TheRainman614]

I hit the like button and now have more hair than I know what to do with - its migrating down my back!

[@anro9370]

I would like if battle tactics give you not "winpoints" but an advantage, like a command point (or two) in this or the next round.

[@patrickdhamilton]

I hit like and got a box of Tree Revenants for my birthday so I can start my first AoS army

[@nicholasbridges7857]

It'd be cool for battle tactics to be on the battle plans and be another thing the two armies were competing over

[@nikjkeenan2866]

Too hard to memorize

[@nicholasbridges7857]

@nikjkeenan2866 you wouldn't have to, it would be on the battleplan

[@nikjkeenan2866]

​@@nicholasbridges7857 Just like we all memorized throughout 3.0 to count 1 more on objectives when we charged, and don't count as contesting when we retreated (on that battleplan). Or as nobody ever forget to roll D3 damage when he had a 1 on a charge roll on Frigid Zephyr or w/e it's called. People forget this stuff all the time when you have complex rules/decisions/buffs & debuffs, your own strategy, the opponents strategy to memorize already

[@cyriltournier]

You could just as well argue that most people didn't memorize battle tactics in their current incarnation. So it wouldn't be worse.

[@DS_painting]

Great show! Looking forward to the next Old World show and your opinion in general and review of Bretonnia!

[@MrZippidydoodahh]

Regarding destroying faction terrain. It's very thematic for your army to walk on a battlefield, and seeing there's a hole where skaven are coming out, and thinking they should collapse the hole. Or burn the wyldwoods. Or destroy their alters. You'd do that in an RTS and it'd feel normal. Or it'd happen in a movie, and it'd be dramatic.

[@zhadowsun]

Really enjoy your show, and very different views of the upcoming changes to AoS 4. Also, great podcast for painting and modelling, so currently working on my custom Elves for AoS :)

[@VinceVenturella]

Much appreciated!

[@kevino13]

The only hesitation I have for Spearhead is that the 40K combat patrol game mode hasn’t really taken off. I know the communities for AoS & 40K are different, but… it doesn’t fill me with hope

[@gregorycafiero9688]

I was(and am still to a degree) concerned for similar reasons but it does feel they're addressing a lot of the concerns I have. From baking in rules for units that will throw off the balance as opposed to just dropping vehicles entirely, to allowing older kits to still play even when new ones release so you'll have multiple lists to use, and honestly the stuff today about the decks used are just too cool. Cautiously optimistic. I think 40k is resting on its laurels, and AoS is in a stage where they want to get people into it, so it's getting more love.

[@charlesfox4449]

our local community has been using combat patrol for teaching the game and we did a tournament of combat patrol last September. a few of us experience players make sure we have a combat patrol with us or the equivalent on our trays for new guys

[@davidcampbell621]

"Armies are shrinking" "Every army gets free endless spells" 🤔

[@thomasthorpe7286]

What they've done here is essentially given every army access to summoning. Could be an interesting way to balance out summoning focussed armies if everyone has access to at least sometihng.

[@charlesfox4449]

let Tom know, 10th edition 40k started with no one able to stand on the objective marker, but as soon as they release matched play rules, you could stand on them again

[@angelicdespot2735]

As a new player, generally really looking forward to the new edition, I agree with the group's views on the battle tactics. The one real downer so far.

[@OgreOnSprue]

I'm very excited for the Ogor Mawtribes faction terrain!

[@degghi]

Hey! I clicked the like and while here just wanted to say that I am indeed painting! Working through my S2D with a magma base taken straight from "Hobby cheating"! Thanks for that video, Vince, and this one as well. How could I paint everyday if I didn't have Warhammer weekly to listen to?!?!

[@davidcampbell621]

Signed up for havoc for the first time! Just gotta get my partner on the painting grind

[@starslayer2438]

"I like having an additional objective conceptually, I just wish it wasn't this implementation." 100% agreed with you, Vince. I was hype for battle tactics at the start of 3.0, but I have really soured on them in practice. I would vastly prefer picking 2 to 4 goals at the start of the battle over having to pick a BT every turn. 8/10 for the new edition so far. Would have been 9/10 if they had replaced BTs. At least the army-specific ones are gone...

[@TheRainman614]

The only thing that makes Chaos chaotic is the fact there are 4 gods that want to destroy the mortal realms but their efforts are thwarted by the other 3 gods because they don't like it when one of them get too far ahead of the rest. Meanwhile the Skaven are truly chaotic individuals in that while they have a clear chain of command, its very loose and they don't know what each other are doing on the same battle field. They have a field manual but would rather improvise than follow it. The Beasts of Chaos are only chaotic in that they don't like order. Their entire race views things as might makes right and will follow the biggest and strongest leaders. The Slaves to Darkness are just that - they are the mortals that follow the chaos gods but generally don't favor one more than the other.

[@maxi40k]

I like now that thematically it makes sense that a mega-gargant can just see an endless spell and instinctively boot it😂

[@woolf552]

I think on battletactics it would be better if they gave a tactical advantage as opposed to straigth victory points, e.g complete the BT and u get 2 cmd points (or maybe 1-3, depending on the difficulty or smth)

[@charlesfox4449]

I could also see the some of the faction terrian moving with ritual points? like the skull altar

[@rmulshine]

If objectives are stationary and we start with our full forces at start of game then without tactics you just feed the middle. The action economy is only expressed when you need to play more of the board.

[@VinceVenturella]

You can always have objectives spread around of course. There are options. But I understand what you're saying.

[@alexandrudorries3307]

New model teaser gives me strong Void Dragon vibes, so it could be an updated Deceiver or Nightbringer.

[@willcorcoran]

More kill oriented BTs convo: TOM: Kill the general? VINCE: Whatever, man... => Vince cares not from where the blood flows

[@leejesm]

So excited for SBs next book!

[@colonelcabbage]

We still have more S2D models to come as there are still some crossover kits with Old World

[@scotchandhobbies5674]

I'm sitting at like an 8. Been trying to not focus too much on the new edition, cuz I got one last GT to play at this month. Aiming for 3-2 with Ogors then retiring them to finally start painting my Nighthaunt army to start out 4th with

[@sirbobulous]

I wish that rather than battletactics they'd found some clever way of tying narrative objectives/secondaries/etc. to the Regiments system. Make those grouping have some narrative connection too, beyond just game mechanics. I dunno. Maybe the Leader of a regiment is a young officer eager to prove themselves and is hyper aggressive. Scoring if one or more units from their regiment are in combat by turn 2.

[@piffling2238]

It wasn't really mentioned but we have the implication there is a limit to the number or Wyldwoods a sylvaneth player should bring. The sylvaneth can't have more than 3 forests at a time on the field. Right now a player can easily build into needing 4 or more sets of trees but it looks like in 4th they may need no more than 2 whole easily getting away with one. Like we don't know how we can combine the sets to create small, medium, and large woods. I can see each tree model giving the wyldwood a 3 health, 4+ save, and 6+ ward so the medium has 6 health and large has 9. The opponent is going to try and attack the trees to prevent teleporting while the sylvaneth player heals and grows new ones. They could limit us by saying each wyldwood model counts as a forest and when we summon they can come joined together but you still have a total of three models throughout the game to work with. Making it only a single set to carry around.

[@BeefyCrunch]

The coin mallius is 3 inch big. Bigger than the pre order 6 pack from 3.0

[@toogreytogame]

With the news about endless spells and the Warlock Engineer losing magic, I'm starting on building and painting the Skaven ESs and a couple of grey seers to support my Skaven (Skryre/Eshin) force

[@seanditchfield5609]

I’m so tired of battle chores but I like the concept of them. Hopefully with what they have learnt from 3rd we’ll get some better ones this edition

[@DaHobbles]

Great show boys! Battle tactics have me a little doomer pilled since they tied the double turn into them. The double turn is thee most interesting mechanic of the game and I just don’t see anyone taking one at a tournament barring only the most extreme examples. I don’t feel great about shooting for the podium at a tournament and losing that tension around the priority roll. Hopefully TOs find better tiebreakers or collectively we accept different community made guidelines, like we did with terrain in 3rd

[@toogreytogame]

So I did lucked out with the universal endless spells. Sometime last year an Indie was having a clear out and I picked them up for less than wholesale. They are deep in my pile of shame however.

[@Vortid]

The battle tactics, they are so not-epic. There is no feeling of doing something important. It's the feeling of cleaning your desk before getting to work. And it leads you to optimize your list to do these things, instead of using your core resources in different interesting ways. They clearly tried to limit this, people cheatee alot by bringing teleporting units, so they can't do the tactics now. But you will do it anyway, build a list where some part of it is just there to score 1-2 battle tactics, and you would never bring them otherwise. This part of the army - do fighting. You two guys - clean my desk. The concept is just really hard to make work, either it is too easy or very restrictive in multiple ways. But mostly it just doesn't play that well. I would have wanted to try: You should have had fewer battle tactics that you need to do, and you pick them all at the start of the battle. (So more like grand strategies). Integrate it as much as possible with the rest of the game. Like control terrain. Control an objevtive for three consecutive turns. Avenge! (Must destroy any unit that killed a hero). Scenarios (or even certain terrain layouts) could force you to pick certain ones. You could have two open ones and a secret objective. Lots of fun options. Missed opportunity...

[@BeefyCrunch]

I hit the like button and scored finding old treasure at a hobby store

[@cyberhawk94]

Assuming there is still a way to get additional enhancements in the new edition, Manifestation Lores should be an option for a "Spell Lore Enhancement" but you dont get one for free. then they arent free, they cost an extra artefact/spell lore/heroic trait but you still can use everything else in this system.

[@VinceVenturella]

Time will tell

[@HappyDuude]

I really need to hit that like button!

[@gregorycafiero9688]

"two out of the three of them made by pretty good people" Man, you market your paints on several of the most horrible atrocities in modern history ONE time and people never let you forget it.

[@capnbrunch9612]

I was hyped for combat patrol for 10th. Literally noone plays it.....

[@voidz1866]

True. Because it is shit 😂

[@VinceVenturella]

Let's hope this is a different story!

[@markpandelidis2079]

Why did they move away from the old system? Personally I feel like I'd prefer if you picked at the start of the game, what your Grand strategy was, out of a pool of 4-5. And each of those Grand strategies had a plan of 3 different mission objectives you needed to tackle during the game, and you scored points as soon as you accomplish each (at the end of your turn) then your Grand strategy rewarded a number of points based on how you accomplished it. More points for doing it sooner maybe, a certain number of points if you only accomplished 2/3 of it, etc etc. something like that

[@redsven7624]

Chuck's KO suggestion I support the sentiment but then I'd be taking KO which feels like suffering for a point

[@sjZhyren]

I wonder if killing terrain and spell stuff would make warmachines have a clear role for themselves.

[@nickthompson6642]

Hopefully we can forgo a manifestation lore in exchange for an extra enhancement, or something of that nature.

[@derekgehring2771]

BT article basically kills the enthusiasm. As was noted, BT are not 'optional' it's the only mechanic built into the game to balance the double turn. Maybe in the next GHB will try something different. Until then, I look forward to your Old World reviews (I hope you bring Chuck back for those!).

[@ilmaestro8670]

So do we think the spearhead armies will be using the model variants on the front of the boxes? IIRC the boxes contain the sprues with any variants, but probably safest to start building what’s on the front for now

[@beardhammerwargaming]

The article says, just build them like on the cover:)

[@ilmaestro8670]

@@beardhammerwargaming aaaahhh I didn’t read the 4-starred section at the end 🤣

[@beardhammerwargaming]

@@ilmaestro8670 not your fault, it shouldn’t be hidden as a fine-print xD

[@dalefoster4561]

TT combat Paints are great too

[@Moggy1k]

Lets get ready to Rubble.

[@JStruggers]

The problem I have with the endless spells is its really really hard to balance across that many things everyone has access to. And with the internet and the way people netlist. All its needs is one popular person/channel to make a tier list (which is inevitable, thats how the internet works) and suddenly everyone looks and that at takes the A-tier spell lore. When some people are given alot of choice they will go and look up the "best" and here we are with everyone taking the same spells.

[@sirbobulous]

I really like the concept of Spearhead. But it all comes down to traction in the community.

[@vordronaii630]

Also was that a Weekly Planet reference at the end? 😎

[@VinceVenturella]

Snake eyes is next week. :)

[@vordronaii630]

Rodney?

[@VinceVenturella]

@@vordronaii630 Rodney! Also, we start green trivia next week as well.

[@NMahon]

It's crazy to me that GW can be showing off new rules for endless spells and faction terrains and they haven't been in stock for I don't know how many months, when was the last time the original set of endless spells was for sale? Over a year? Will they be in stock for long?

[@redsven7624]

Spearhead rating 7.5 , main game rating 4.5

[@baynenothos]

A while back I had my KO play SBGL and I lost by ~10 vp while doing well over 200 wounds over the game. It was just physically impossible for me to capture objectives at all vs the amount of models on the board. I don't love BT's but they keep you somewhat in the game and without them AOS looks to me like 'cool I lose at army selection, GG, why did I bother to show up' and with AOS4 moving to smaller objectives I'm super worried it could be nigh impossible to actually take objectives off people if they set up well. So there needs to be something here, hopefully next season whhatever it is will be more exciting. I kind of wish they were alternate scoring instead of additional. So you pick either capture objectives or do a few BT's at the start of your turn.

[@CygnusMaximusXIII]

After having so much of my existing Stormcast models go the way of the dodo, I'm passing on Stormcast for now (though I don't blame GW for making the tough call). I turned all my old-school Prosecutors into Christmas tree ornaments, and they're sweet.

[@MCXL1140]

In fairness it appears that a lot of the old models are getting new versions/scrolls. But that's also pretty neat.

[@HoovesofDoom]

Good episode. These rules are really a mixed bag in my opinion.

[@perfidy1103]

Wasn't Tom wrong incredibly quickly when he declared SBGL Zombies bad. That might be being wrong quicker than this.

[@ierlic]

Vince you recently did a hobby cheating video for your armies on parade which I really enjoyed. But last few Warhammer weekly shows there’s been some discussion regarding your Ratcast Army. Based on everything said it would be really cool to see your Ratcast army as a hobby cheating video. Maybe even with a “how I paint my Ratcast armor” tutorial which, I assume, must be long and tedious but looks amazing.

[@VinceVenturella]

It's in there in the history in short in the Red NMM and the secret to display painting, but I could do a more full video.

[@alanwesley598]

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying you have to bring them. The endless spells. It seems like you can just opt not to. You're not losing that much.

[@kevino13]

The problem is, if they’re completely free to bring, competitively speaking, you are at a disadvantage against someone who does bring them. It would be like playing a game now without your faction terrain. Your army will still function perfectly fine (except maybe sylvaneth), but you’re missing a big bonus to your army.

[@alanwesley598]

@@kevino13 let's say in 4th edition this manifestation works in addition to casting from a spell lore. Sure, then you are opting to not take something that is actually free. But if it works the way endless spells have that conjuring them counts as a casting resource then you are just choosing one over the other. It's like choosing to not take priests, then you don't have access to prayers.

[@VinceVenturella]

I suppose we will see, but now by not bringing a wizard, I am losing out on spells and potentially the utility of endless spells, which depending on the rules, could be very impactful.

[@seanditchfield5609]

I hope they have something similar to this GHB where if you don’t take a wizard or a manifestation lore then you get something else. Really don’t want to play spells with my ironjawz

[@ryanburruss]

Just tried to find Tom’s comment about the 40mm objective markers being impassable, and none of the articles I’ve found seem to say anything about it. Could we get a reference from Tom please?

[@Gihboh]

I second this, I also could't find where it's mentioned. But I'd like it to be true!

[@VinceVenturella]

I couldn't find it either!

[@ryanburruss]

@@VinceVenturella sounds like wishful thinking then… I imagine it’ll be similar to the system in 40k though right? Are the centers of their objectives impassable?

[@halffin64]

i don't love endless spells being free purely on this being another $60ish purchase your expected to have. i can prob kitbash a quicksilver swords, grave tide, or horrorghast pretty easily as an SBGL player but most armies are gonna struggle to be able to kitbash more than a couple out of their spare bits. edit: i kinda expect 6-12 months into 4th theres gonna be a 1-200 pt endless spell tax

[@Akiosama1009]

Endless spells will be great if they’re as available from GW as other staple units like Chaos Wardogs and Callidus Assassins are in 40k. 😂

[@OfPeas]

I'm at a 5/10. I like a large amount of what's been revealed. I don't like Battle Tactics and I would like to say that's fine, I'll just not play with the module. But it's really hard to say that. With the roles being defined, now certain units counter certain things, the double turn has that much more impact. Which would be fine, I like the double turn. But 3rd edition had the player going second in the round get an extra command point at least. This edition so far almost feels like the entire game is built around battle tactics. They're needed to encourage players to put units in a position that's more beneficial for the tactic rather than the combat. They're needed to discourage double turns. This entire edition so far feels like it's been built for a tournament player that enjoys the current ecosystem. Or the complete opposite side of the spectrum, the spearhead mode. I can go all the way up to 10 though if they reveal different books that have different modules that are a bit less....competitive. Let me build the game I want to play. Right now I'm probably going to do massive house rules to the entire game to soften the edges and make the game we want. Are there good online tools to make my own battleplans?

[@derekgehring2771]

100% agree that this edition seems like they just asked the people who liked 3rd, who just said 'yeah more of this.' I find it hard to believe the wider community was enthusiastic about BT to cause the designer to double down on BT importance.

[@blighboy1]

I'd definitely prefer a deck of cards for battle tactics, it would allow me to physically dump them in the trash.

[@solidsentinel1285]

I’m a 40K player but the spearheads might be the final push to get me to try AOS

[@MKDietz]

Also did Tom smoke crack before going on this time? Like - Vince: the Incarnate could be fine, we'll have to see Tom: BUT YOU DON'T know!!! And the following where it's always been the case of not having spell casters misses out on spells. Of course you're going to lose more now, since previously there at least was a trade off by the player having to invest points into endless spells. Now them being free is 3-4 extra spells and then models to control, for FREE, is a much heavier loss of not having spell casters. I think that clearly goes without saying.

[@richardhellsten2771]

I'm glad people are excited for Spearhead but I dont get the optimism. 40k had a similar thing come out less than a year ago (thereby released after this was written) and virtually no-one plays it. The feeling on the deck of secondaries is pretty negative too. I hope this is better, but I dont know where that hope should reasonably come from.

[@VinceVenturella]

Different design team, different group of writers different people making this product different set of assumptions. All of these things lead me to be more positive.

[@melchoriuz8116]

But we all on the same side that the game need something as a 2nd way of scoring to bring more roles in units to shine. otherwise u run into old world problem with kill more is only lead into less unit variations on the battlefield.

[@VinceVenturella]

Agreed I like having something as a tertiary objective. I assume the primary is go stand on the circles. The secondary is kill your opponent so they can’t stand on the circles and then the third is something else you’re trying to do. It’s a good because it gives a loser something to do or even if you’re in a losing position, it’s good because it gives you some form of orthogonal gameplay. I just think right now it’s too heavy in the game.

[@melchoriuz8116]

@@VinceVenturella i get ur point. For me is a typical topic around taste and there is only the personal taste the decision maker - that u worked pretty out the same - I should watch next time the whole video before commenting … 😌. For me it is a round game which favors players who love to deep dive into a game.

[@VinceVenturella]

@@melchoriuz8116 No issue at all and never wait to comment, always helps with the engagement. ;) (Seriously, I apprecaite all comments and discussion).

[@rickreplogle2130]

I hit like and learned it’s not just @itsjustj6205’s lawn anymore.

[@merumboah5790]

I didn't hit like and a small child's ice cream cone fell into the dirt

[@Aki777craft]

An other big dub for Tom, Vince grossly misrepresented what faction endlessly spells terrain are. Actually glad Tom brought it back to reality. Nothing in army building is “free” and blurring the lines between opportunity cost and competitive efficiency is wildly misleading.

[@VinceVenturella]

Which part are you referencing? I am not disagreeing, just wondering which take I was off on to correct.

[@DocPhantoms]

BTs generally have you do something a player should be doing to succeed in the game. By forcing you to do it, it ruins the flow of the game and the focus. The focus should be on the scenario with secondaries and tertiary enhancing the play instead of making you focus on them. overall i am generally positive for 4th, but 3rd has made me look at other games and I have been just having fun playing anything other than AoS

[@MKDietz]

I'm starting to think they're going to go overboard with the crit abilities. Like crit wound on just clan rats? Why, unless it says they have to be like 20 in the unit as a swarm thing, I don't know why they would have it.

[@VinceVenturella]

They are very stabby I suppose. :)

[@MKDietz]

@@VinceVenturella they do go "stab stab" that's a good point 😋

[@scottpfaff7804]

Do we have confirmation that endless spells, spell lore is free (doesn’t cost points)? We don’t pay points for spell lore now; but do pay for endless spells. It’s possible these things cost points.

[@piffling2238]

This was confirmed during the wizards and priests preview with the line "Endless spells and invocations are still in the mix - but instead of spending points to add endless spells when constructing an army, you can pick a manifestation lore"

[@scottpfaff7804]

@@piffling2238 nice! I assumed we’d have to pay for it in terms of points. For the whole lore. Probably my distrust of WarComs accuracy

[@AVS_uk]

I hit the like button and 30 seconds later my ex text me saying, "You know what, I was probably in the wrong about that whole thing - I'm sorry."

[@dannythompson9642]

👍👍

[@vordronaii630]

How do we know that endless spells are free?

[@KamenRiderGreed]

They said it in an earlier article.

[@ghostmutton]

Thank you for eloquently giving voice to why I despise Battle Tactics so much. Let us all continue to complain nonstop, every week, to ensure the final destruction of that mortal bane. I really don't want to come back 3 years later and have to say, "Man that 4th edition could have been a 10/10 if it wasn't for those stinky BT's."

[@scottpfaff7804]

I must be in the minority. I like battle tactics. I enjoy them. I’d like them to be either random or at least leveled for all armies.

[@jarettduker1507]

I think the debate on battle tactics is a fundamental conflict of vision, similar to how we can’t agree on politics. If you abstract away all of the fluffy elements of the game, it becomes a rule set about scoring the most possible out of a total number of points. The battle tactic system makes perfect sense as a list of ways to score points. On the other side, if the game is fundamentally an imaginative narrative of a battle playing out, Batt tactics are a useless chore that contribute nothing to crushing one’s enemies. The problem is fundamental to Warhammer design, where we play on the board, but win on points, points that frequently have nothing to do with the board state. So if you’re an analytical rules, minded person, I think you’re going to like the battle tactic system. If you’re a more imaginative narratively driven person, you’re gonna hate them passionately.

[@scottpfaff7804]

@@jarettduker1507 I can appreciate your point. I am an imaginative and creative person. Almost all of my events in my battles play out In my mind like my action figures did when I was young. I love imagining how the fight would play out. Whiffs happen cause the models are “tired”; successes because they’re “inspired”. I am also analytical about the technical aspect of playing and trying to win. Figuring out the best way to apply my strengths while minimizing my opponents. So I can see you perspective. I love the tactics because they another layer to the game in terms of gameplay. They give your a reason to take things that aren’t just the most effectient at killing or not dying. It forces some diversity and variety lists (for a time). It requires forward thinking, and planning for the entirety of the game beyond the next turn. I enjoy the concept of them. (I have “feelings” about their implementation and what they became in 3.0). Having deployed to a war zone a few times in my lifetime, I can say for a fact that “Battle Chores” and being sent to do things that make little to no sense, is the most accurate portrayal of war and generalship I can imagine. While it might be at odds with your fantasy of what an army should be doing, it is probably more aligned with reality. 🤣🤣

[@jarettduker1507]

@@scottpfaff7804 Now that is a “BatTac” system I could get behind. “If 3 of your units Remainded Stationary this turn to file supply requisition paperwork, score 4 VP.” “If 1 of your cavalry units Fell Back this turn to write an after action report for HQ, score 4 VP.” If they are going to make us do silly and counter intuitive things that don’t contribute to winning the war in order to score points, at least explain it in the fluff.

[@scottpfaff7804]

@@jarettduker1507 haha “provide 3 positives and 3 negatives for why your units preformed at or below average, and what your recommendation is. Score 4vp For this report.”

[@redsven7624]

Spearhead is what is getting me excited for age of sigmar, and the battle tactics seem genuinely more interesting than main game. The giant spearhead though what a missed opportunity to do a new mini giant. The main game battle tactics, the core so far seem uninspired and uninteresting. The faction ones, just no Also they are going to get the spells in stock ... narrator they in fact...

[@chubbychalupa4175]

This set of articles put my hype level from a 7.5 to a 2.5. I have very little faith that GW will be able to produce the spells and faction terrain to the levels that this needs. Which will mean that there will be an uneven economy to the people who can afford them vs who has them. In addition, Tom is 100% right that battle tactics are a cancer. I have very little interest in doing battle chores. They take everything out of the game for me, and the models are the only reason I have any hype left.

[@018music018]

Excitement level was an easy 10 last Thursday, maybe a 6 at best now? It's really a bummer, endless spells and BTs were my least favorite parts of the game and it feels like they're going aaaalllllll in

[@The_ZerGhoul]

I personally really hate battle tactics (I know some people enjoy them, not hating here) and it seems like they're bringing some of the ones that I dislike most where it's more about moving stuff around the board and not engage the opponent. I enjoy playing elite armies and I constantly have to shoot myself in the foot if I don't want to fall behind on points, it makes no sense at all. For instance, I lost some points on a round or two during my last event by accidentally killing off a unit with a low dmg one (Arkhan) making me fail the battle tactic. I'm positive about most of the 4th edition stuff they have shown so far but the battle tactics is the huge downside for me, some armies and playstyles can just cruise through while some others are heavily hindered by them and it feels like it forces certain types of list building again.

[@Enballgroda1]

I’m pretty mid on BTs. In my opinion the worst part about them is this show… cuz it eats up a 30 minute segment every 3-4 shows where you just complain about them. I love you guys and it’s completely valid to bring up this article and BTs in the new edition but I’d love if we just cover this once or twice and move on instead of dredging this up over and over.

[@jarettduker1507]

Nope, I tune in specifically to hear the group complain on this topic. Would watch more. Then again, I have a very strong opinion on the topic.

[@Enballgroda1]

@@jarettduker1507 If you really just want them to say the same things they've said ten times before the old episodes are still available.

[@jarettduker1507]

Good plan! Let’s get those engagement numbers up so the message can spread!

[@Birdmanesp92]

Tom was so close. Rubblerouser is better

[@autumnlotus6250]

I personally hope that the spell lists are set in a way where the endless spells are optional, OR its "take your army endless spells, or generic ones, or gain a command point". I will say, though, that I would likelu understand this fear if Vince didnt just shit on magic users in armies for most of that segment. And loosely hope they just remove most of the magic system, and praised the majorly controversial method GW did in 10e 40k, where many players quit over the changes in, say, thousand sons or chaos daemons. The chest thumping for making all magic into attacks or command abilities is SO frustrating, and its being so insanely self centered while ignoring other peoples feelings on the subject. I will say, though, that i do like that both endless spells and terrain are more interactive. I'm a lil worried how squishy they might be, especially the larger terrain pieces, but its GOOD that they can be killed if they are focused upon.

[@VinceVenturella]

Okay, so to make my position clear. 1) I don't like magic in AoS, it's often frustrating because of the mechanics. I like the idea OF magic in AoS and want a better system. 2) I don't remember ever saying I wish AoS would have the 40k system, I like the 40k system fine for 40k, that doesn't mean I want it here (I Understand its controversial for 40k, I am expressing I am fine with that system in that game, but thats IMHO). 3) The only other magic system I ever remember directly saying I really enjoy and wouldn't mind seeing transported into AoS was some variation of the old world's magic system, which I do enjoy. 4) We are in alignment on the spells and terrain being interactable. 5) I don't remember crapping on magic armies. Saying I hate magic /= magic armies are bad.

[@autumnlotus6250]

I will say, though, that I dont think I know a single person who likes battle tactics. even me, who loves drawing from objective decks, hate them. I like fun randomness, not "I do this obvious thing to have an advantage over you turn 1"

[@jamesn2830]

The new endless spells rules sound really fun but I’m also bitter that I’m basically being forced to buy, paint, and transport these obnoxiously large ugly models. Most of them look bad I’m sorry but they just do 😂

[@TerrierHalo]

I am quite looking forward to Spearhead, a bit less to the full game. Battle Tactics is just not fun in the current state of 3, and it’s not looking a lot better in 4. If endless spells/faction terrain is something everyone is supposed to bring it’s not great either. Did they print too much and it’s been delayed on a boat for 3 years or something? As it looks like now I am unsure why I’d ever want to move past Spearhead.