Cultish: Does the Bible Teach That The Earth Is Flat? Pt. 1

Join us for the 1st part of this exiting series as we talk with Mike Winger from BibleThinker.org & take a look at some of the bible passages used to support a flat earth theory.
The focus of this series is not about what "science says" or certain conspiracies. But rather, a direct focus at these verses actually teach as we examine them in context.
We hope this series will be to be a helpful resource for those sincerely wanting to ask whether or not the Bible, on its own, is teaching a flat earth.
Be sure to like, share, and comment on this video.
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[@SINLEADSTOHELL]

Will you guys ever debate a flat Earther in these type of subjects?

[@scubaoctopus]

I used to listen to him, but flat Eatth??????

[@Jeffmacaroni1542]

World Upside Down, a biblical earth documentary 2022. This documentary will show you the shape and structure of God's earth according to the King James Bible. kzbin.info/www/bejne/fZuYiphsidekoqM

[@americaone749]

Why don't you have a flat earther debating the globers, so they can defend their views?

[@josiahmoeller8821]

1. Gods word says earth does not move, Science says earth is moving in multiple directions at once. 2. Gods word says there’s a dome firmament above us, science says there is space above us. 3. Gods word says God spoke everything into existence, science says nothing created everything. 4. Gods word says we are created in the image of God, science says we come from the image of monkeys. 5. Gods word says God is seated above the firmament on his throne of glory, science says there’s nothingness above us. 6. Gods word says one sun, one moon, and stars were placed in the firmament, science says there are multiple suns which are stars, and multiple moons around “planets” 7. Gods word says that they are “wandering stars”, science says that they are planets that we will live on one day to escape earth. 8. Gods word says the floodgates of heaven were opened and the waters above came down and flooded the earth, science again says there’s nothingness above us. 9. Gods word says there is an up and a down “heaven and hell”, science says up and down are relative and do not really exist “heaven and hell do not exist” 10. Gods word says that God finished all of his creation on the 6th day and rested. Science says the universe is still expanding to this day.

[@TTGTanner]

God of the Gaps

[@therockstar17]

There are multiple things wrong with your view. Genesis is not a science book. It’s a polemic against the false Egyptian stories. Science simply observes God’s creation, it will always agree with the Bible, but you’re mixing in the theory of evolution and equating it to “science.”

[@DEAD4LIVE]

@@therockstar17 science agrees with the bible thays why we can't define a woman anymore and the world quarantined for the flu.

[@josiahmoeller8821]

@@therockstar17 you can’t have the theory of evolution without the theory of the big bang without the theory of gravity without the theory of heliocentricity without the theory of black holes etc… they’re all theories, and you can’t have one without the other. Heliocentricity is part of the Big Bang which is part of evolution. And they’re all accepted as science and taught to children to mold their minds from a young age. you just choose to believe one theory over the other. They’re all the same. Unproven theories

[@chasefreeman1136]

Modern science is satanism, which inverts everything about God and his creations.

[@TheDaddyNick]

Flat Earth brought me to Christianity. Lies do not save people. No globehead can say the same thing.

[@Mike_W78]

Jesus brought me to Christianity. Flat earth is a massive fail for humans at this time. God made a globe earth.

[@Juduh]

It was a way to find Christianity but only God/Christ can bring you to Christianity, in the sense of belief.

[@therockstar17]

Christ saves, not the Earth. People have found Christ in many different ways.

[@demetriak837]

Amen

[@ryfidelity7854]

God is the only one who draws in his people to regeneration, an idea or theory about what the earth looks like cannot and will not do that. You have a false and non saving faith if thats what you believe. Examine yourself.

[@OGDreamer]

I have a Nikon p1000 and proved to myself curvature is a lie, the moon is close, and stars are NOT what they say. Scripture matters.

[@RussianBot4Christ]

Wow, Nikon p1000, no doubt an enlightened, modern, worldly man.

[@OGDreamer]

You don’t know anything about the camera obviously

[@mandygainey312]

My husband has a similar camera. I’m not sure the exact camera but he attempted to go to a point on the coast of North Carolina that is 39 miles from the Ocracoke lighthouse. Obviously if he could have taken a picture and seen the bottom of that lighthouse from 39 miles away that would’ve proved that the curvature is a lie but there was too much haze and humidity in the air the day that he went. So he’ll try it again someday soon

[@Juduh]

I believe that the earth is not round and have observed the videos with the camera you are speaking of and the proof of the flat earth is from what I’ve seen true. There’s actually no proof for a sphere earth, and that’s because it’s a lie.

[@OGDreamer]

@@Juduh the biggest lie. Their model was created directly after the Reformation. We were awakened and they had to find another way to hide God. Rob Skibas videos are awesome. Very technical. I don’t understand why anyone would trust NASA. Our government lies about everything. Why would this be different. Look at NASA’s logo. Forked tongue.

[@thekosmickat]

Pleasantly surprised by the amount of fellow Christians here who also happen to believe earth is flat (thats an oversimplification of the flat earth view of course). Not only does the Bible describe the earth as flat and absolutely does not describe a solar system or what we know as space, its also observably, scientifically seen to be this way.

[@FalconOfStorms]

Ah yes, flat earth science. Didn't a flat-earther kill himself in a homemade rocket trying to prove this? It's sad, but also it's funny, because if he'd survived and reported seeing a spherical earth, conspiritards would have said he was just another shill from NASA.

[@thekosmickat]

@@FalconOfStorms what does some randos failed rocket have to do with whether or not earth is flat? The flat earth claim is not disproven or vindicated by it. Im also a little concerned that you, who im assuming is a self professed Christian, would find it funny that someone apparently died in search of the truth, even if they were wrong. Us flat earthers are sincere in our beliefs, and simply trying to determin the shape of the earth isnt immoral, so hopefully you dont bring up how terrorists are sincere in their beliefs too or some argument like that. But thats just my observations of you and some additional commentary. I must digress back to my initial question to you. What does your point have to do with anything?

[@nycgalant]

Quite the contrary. Scripture and passages that truthers/conspiracy theorists and Christians throw around and isolate haven't been proved to show a flat earth. These are merely assumptions placed in figurative and symbolic language that God communicates through scripture. I tried to give flat earth a chance, but as a serious bible reader, context matters and flat earth pretty much falls flat on its face Btw, just because the bible doesn't talk about the solar system, doesn't necessarily mean there isn't one. There are many things humans have discovered and described in modern languages that we don't see in scripture.

[@thekosmickat]

@@nycgalant the fact remains that the globe description is absent from the Bible. You can say the Bible doesn't support flat earth all day and while i disagree, i can at least say it certainly doesn't support the globe model. So you are in the same boat that you claim im in when it comes to the Biblical description. This leaves you with the science so called as a lense to look at scripture through, making assumptions about the Bible that aren't there, all given from the same people who teach evolution and atheism.

[@nycgalant]

@@thekosmickat I wasn't arguing from a "globe" perspective. You merely assumed that term since you probably didn't like what I said about scripture not revealing a flat earth model. This belief has become more of a popular trend or jumped bandwagon idea than one that the bible contains exegetical context on

[@TheSSPodcast]

Why do we see the same constellations since recorded history, if we have been traveling through space? Earth in ancient Hebrew means land not planet. You guys sound very condescending in this video. I’m sorry but you all sound like your mind is made up on this topic.

[@techdave3915]

That's an easy one. Because the constellations are made up of stars that are thousands of light years away. The amount we've traveled through space since the beginning of recorded history would amount to a few inches of travel relative to distant mountains. They won't appear to have moved one iota. It's all relative. Question - do those subscribing to flat earth believe in space and the existence of stars, or is that an elaborate light show in the "dome"? I'm not patronising here, rather sincerely curious.

[@TheSSPodcast]

@@techdave3915 yes we do believe in stars. We believe in every word of the Bible at least from my standpoint. So yea we believe in the stars not a light show. Also science isn’t the exact answer to everything is what we also believe. Especially seeing how science continuously changes. But I suppose you believe we came from nothing and evolved to monkeys then humans and for some reason we’ve just stopped here! Not patronizing at all but curious to what you believe.

[@techdave3915]

​@@TheSSPodcast Actually I consider myself an open minded pragmatist. My view is that religion is based in faith and science is based in theory - that's why they can harmoniously coexist with many things. Many theories are proven as fact, but what bugs me is when theories are also taught as fact simply because they're prevailing for so long. Science theory tells us that we evolved from monkeys, but also tells us that homo sapiens appeared one day and outbred neanderthals to become the dominant species, and that those early homo sapiens would barely be distinguishable from us had they been exposed to the same diet and education that we are today. That contradicts evolution, though there is evidence of evolution in other things. It's a mixed bag.

[@TheSSPodcast]

@@techdave3915 I get what you’re saying. But you also got understand that science is a faith based practice as well. I’m some aspects. And I get your view on religion, but science is also a religion. Religion is also defined as “ a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance”. Now as far as being a believer in Christ our belief is a faith. Yes some have made it into a religion and more of something per day to just do. But believing in the Bible and Christ is a faith based practice. Some science was taught as fact and is taught as complete Gsxr. But the. Time does on and the science or theory changes as well. And that same science also claims that we come from space dust and after billions of years evolved into tadpolesC fish and then to monkeys. So do you see from my point of view how the theories change and is a faith of the “science” or religion of science? But I definitely hear you and see your side and point of view as well as belief. Also, our scriptures are taught as fact because they are scriptures of things that happened that have been handed down. There are many many ancient artifacts to prove that as well. We don’t believe some men just made up a really cool story. We believe and have prof that these things in scripture happened because they were written from eyewitnesses.

[@scripturemanstan621]

Polaris The North Star proves this. It’s the only celestial body that doesn’t move. And yes the Bible says the earth is stationary. I believe the Bible.

[@techdave3915]

I live in Australia so can't see Polaris. Have you ever seen the Southern Cross? It's a big feature of our night sky, and is represented on our flag here "down under"

[@LEGnewTube]

Jesus also said the Mustard seed is the smallest seed (which it isn’t). The Bible never claims to be a science book. Don’t force it to be one.

[@scripturemanstan621]

@@LEGnewTube The Mustard seed is the smallest seedof all the herbs. I don’t make the Bible anything. It says what it says.

[@lausdeo4944]

...but it does. The axis of the earth rotates through the sky very slowly. The North Star was not always Polaris.

[@lausdeo4944]

@OrthodoxIndian Excellent way of putting it. The point of the verse describing the land as stationary is that God has fixed it. Man has no control over it.

[@veronicaaustin7792]

I suggest reviewing the research of the late Rob Skiba. As a Christian, his work is Bible based. Check out his KZbin channel.

[@kellyrooney782]

Agreed!

[@Adventure_Always]

I agree as well! Rip Rob

[@thecargotsold]

What Rob died? When? What happened?

[@Adventure_Always]

@@thecargotsold apparently from covid in 2021… 🙄

[@veronicaaustin7792]

@@thecargotsold Yes. He died last October of Covid complications.

[@IgnatiusCheese]

The Earth is not a spinning ball

[@aaronknight4800]

Agreed. I have yet to feel the forces of a spinning globe.

[@techdave3915]

do you feel the forces sitting at a constant 60mph in a car, or 600mph in a plane? You'll feel the acceleration getting there, sure, but not the inertia at constant speed.

[@kamarwashington]

Why would God make every other planet a sphere lol

[@searching4adventure85]

It's obviously not a ball it's an oblate sphere.

[@aaronknight4800]

@@searching4adventure85 yeah, I'm going to assume you are being sarcastic. We have all seen the CGI from NASA. Perfectly round. Please..... Flat, motionless plane....

[@wokeupwakeup3540]

Also it’s not called flat earth it’s called biblical cosmology

[@therick363]

And biblical cosmology says….??

[@darthjedi99]

@@therick363 we are not a spinning globe going around the sun.

[@therick363]

@@darthjedi99 ahhh. Too bad that’s not accurate and we are.

[@disguyzful]

@@therick363 Heliocentrism is a lie

[@bxradkilln09]

Literally nothing in the Bible even minority references a globe but it’s all kinda of verses that point to or at least make sense more when referring to a flat earth

[@TheSSPodcast]

30 minutes in and not one mention of one of the most important books in the Bible. Genesis. The creation story! Hmm

[@lausdeo4944]

You know, Genesis doesn't mention slugs. It means large beasts and *creeping* things, but not anything without legs (other than a snake). Slugs must be lies of the devil. /s Y'all are so hypocritical.

[@davidnavarro524]

The ancient Hebrew cosmology is literally a flat stationary earth enclosed by the firmament system. That's a fact. There are enough scriptures to conclude the heliocentric earth model is incorrect. You'd think Joshua 10:12,13 would be enough: On the day the LORD gave the Amorites over to Israel, Joshua said to the LORD in the presence of Israel: "O sun, stand still over Gibeon, O moon, over the Valley of Aijalon." So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, till the nation avenged itself on its enemies, as it is written in the Book of Jashar... Why didn't Joshua command the earth to stop it's rotation? Also he obviously believes the sun and moon are smaller and local by stating their local positions!... I have no idea so many Christians side with evolutionary cosmology?..

[@Isaiah-ft5nx]

Exactly.

[@trss8674]

Joshua is not God. So, this is what Joshua said, but it's not what God would have said. For example, in the book of Job, Job's wife tells Job to curse God and die. Clearly, this is the wrong thing to say but in this verse, it's Job's wife speaking, not God.

[@davidnavarro524]

@@trss8674 That's a terrible response and not sure where you're going with that ridiculous example. Joshua was speaking directly to God and God responded. I guess you think Joshua was ignorant to cosmology?? Well glad you brought up Job btw because the Lord Himself speaks on His creation!.. Job 38: 1 - 18 “Where were you when I (A)laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding. 5 Who determined its measurements-surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? 6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone, 7 when the morning stars (B)sang together and all (C)the sons of God (D)shouted for joy? 8 “Or who (E)shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb, 9 when I made clouds its garment and (F)thick darkness its swaddling band, 10 and prescribed (G)limits for it and set bars and doors, 11 and said, ‘Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your (H)proud waves be stayed’? 12 “Have you (I)commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place, 13 that it might take hold of (J)the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be (K)shaken out of it? 14 It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment. 15 From the wicked their (L)light is withheld, and (M)their uplifted arm is broken. 16 “Have you (N)entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have (O)the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of (P)deep darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.... The pride of man to think they know any of this! Only the Lord knows! What are you gonna say now? That the Lord doesn't know His own creation??

[@bbsvchic]

@@trss8674 and then GOD himself ask Job in 38:5 who made the earth and who stretched a measuring line across it? Your argument is still pretty weak because you’re trying to grab at straws thinking that you know exactly what God would’ve said? That’s a bit of a reach

[@davidnavarro524]

@@trss8674 You also forgot the part where the passage goes on to say what took place. "SO THE SUN STOOD STILL" did you skip over that part?! I can't respect Christians that are too cowardice to be intellectually honest about the many passages proving the heliocentric earth model is nonsense. Apologia Studios fails miserably when it comes to cosmology and they side with evolution and scientism...

[@TheSSPodcast]

Keep saying we have to be consistent. Some passages are to be taken literal while some are spoken as parables. Flat earth teaches that God exists. Science teaches we all came from nothing. Science teaches evolution from bacteria and monkeys. The word and flat earth points to a creator. Points to God!

[@ichoozjc]

Science also teaches a lot more than evolution. How babies are formed, how cells divide, how matter is composed, how internal organs work, how cell phones work, how computer chips work etc....so we throw all that out? Did you know that many of today's scientific discoveries we're made by Christians or diests? Don't throw the baby away with the bathwater.

[@ednamode2524]

True science comes from God, they’re not opposing. Otherwise what you are talking about is not science.

[@banemaler]

Depends on which scientist you are referring to.

[@FollowChristFollower]

💯 ”Let God be true, and every human being a liar.” Romans 3:4

[@jkirks8]

Lol flat earth doesn’t teach anything except flat earth itself

[@wokeupwakeup3540]

This is so frustrating to listen to amateurs talking about the subject you should have somebody on that can actually debate everything you guys are saying and then to deny Hebrew scholars to think that God doesn’t know what he was writing I am thankful that you guys are really respectful about it which is nice and refreshing to see but unfortunately you’re so wrong

[@TheDivineCallingofJesusChrist]

He fully acknowledges that evolution is ridiculous but doesn't understand that the heliocentric model started making its own way after Darwinism did and deceived a huge portion of society. There are so many verses pertaining to the shape of the Earth with only one pointing to a circle but that's the circle of the earth as if you were to look at like a flat round coffee table from above. There is no way the Earth is round. Also somewhere in the 1930s 1940s around there they stopped teaching flat earth.

[@siribright5262]

They made it perfectly clear, multiple times, at the beginning of this show that they were not taking a stand either way. So the purpose of a debate would be for that. That is not what it was for. And there are plenty of Hebrew scholars who deny that scripture teaches a flat earth. What makes you give credit to one over the other? Because it gives you the presupposition you already bring to the Word?

[@OurKingdomIsNotOfThisWorld]

Correct me if I'm wrong but "1 Chronicles 16:30 Tremble before Him, all the earth; Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved" and Psalm 104:5 He established the earth upon its foundations, So that it will not totter forever and ever.

[@Isaiah-ft5nx]

Thanks for the eh-rets (H776) explanation about the earth. It helps better concrete that there are ends, the continent’s ends that are reaching out to Antarctica. Also, Genesis 1 says the earth existed before the sun and moon. So goodbye heliocentric model.

[@BeWellBrandon]

Exactly!

[@tylerh2548]

Wait....why does a rock existing before a power source preclude the rock from gravitating to the power source once ignited?

[@nbass5773]

Lol so you bring on someone who is totally uneducated on the topic of “flat earth “ someone who is rebutting points flat earth believers never talk about or being up lol classic

[@billzbez6019]

I'm sorry but job litterly explains the shape of the earth and he doesn't say it's a ball, but instead says "it takes shape like clay under a seal " . I believe we're letting are outside indoctrination effect what the bible says lol

[@Userdavid-pz4qm]

Job had the technology that we modern image bearers have to determine that?

[@ThatSoulsGirl]

Meaning, God shaped it as easily as someone playing with putty would, because hot wax is easily shaped into whatever you want. Not that the earth is flat.

[@billzbez6019]

@@Userdavid-pz4qm no job had something far better a close relationship with God and to be inspired to write in the scriptures. Unless your willing to put technology as a scoop to see through you cant read the bible and come up with a spinning ball for earth

[@billzbez6019]

@@ThatSoulsGirl I'm sure that's what isaiah ment to when he was having a vision being above the earth then says he seen the circle of the earth, only issue is you guys think he ment ball lol

[@ThatSoulsGirl]

@@billzbez6019 oh yeah, don't think it meant it says that earth is a ball. Don't think it gives us any clue on Earth's shape.

[@TheDaddyNick]

Raqiyaa. Earth is immovable and stationary. -The Bible

[@happy79000]

The Bible says that there are earthquakes, so it obviously has something else in mind.

[@TheDaddyNick]

@@happy79000 false equivalency and taken out of context, but great try. NEXT

[@TheDaddyNick]

@@happy79000 and now youre claiming the Bible is contradicting itself-- slippery slope my friend.

[@happy79000]

@@TheDaddyNick no I'm not. I'm just saying like the guys in the podcast said...don't interpret the Bible literally when it is communicated poetically and vice versa. Read it in it's context. Don't read into it something that is not intended by the author. Eisegesis is the mother of heresy.

[@therockstar17]

Saying the earth is immovable is perfect harmonized with the earth setting in orbit, etc. Did you know how precise the angle of the earth, the distance from the sun, and the orbit is? If any were off by a fraction we wouldn’t be here. And nobody can move the earth from its position in space. That’s why it says the earth is fixed and immovable, because God put it there. Even if any of the planets like Jupiter or the nearest star were off by a fraction we wouldn’t be here. That’s how amazing God’s design is. Flat earth can’t show all of God’s magnificent design.

[@mickeyrush5237]

Over 300 verses support a flat stationary earth

[@boterlettersukkel]

And not one of those support REALITY... Try again, kid. Did you just forget the 8th commandment?? Lying for jesus is still lying,. There is this very tiny thing about flat earth. YOU have to present *EVIDENCE* for your claims. When are you going to present a map of the flat earth that conforms to reality and that can be used for navigation? When are you going to present the model of the flat earth that explains all observations? *What is be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.* No map, NO model, *NO FLAT EARTH.* Keep it up, You are doing a great job by showing how silly flat earthers are.

[@andrewgd1858]

yes indeed . earth is not planet

[@RussianBot4Christ]

And you have just lied 300 times

[@Mike_W78]

It does not. There are 300 verses you don’t understand and read it through your want for it to be true.

[@eagleclaw1179]

@@Mike_W78 Give us 5 verses

[@hwjchimyaj121]

33 minutes in and they're still talking about the "ends of the earth" which is one of the weakest arguments for a flat earth.

[@OGDreamer]

Exactly

[@vladolenin1345]

They don't know or have much insight into how to properly approach this subject. Starting from an assumption that you're correct shuts the door to discovery. "He who answers a matter before he hears it- this is folly and disgrace to him." -Proverbs 18:13 📖

[@josiahmoeller8821]

I know right? don’t think I’ve ever used that argument once. It’s interesting to think about but there are much stronger points to discuss, like the firmament, and waters above.

[@hwjchimyaj121]

@@josiahmoeller8821 💯

[@RussianBot4Christ]

It's weird how such a bad argument for the flat earth can be claimed to be Holy Spirit inspired by flat earthers.

[@mickeyrush5237]

Just read the first 8 verses

[@cdlahm7571]

If you believe God created the earth is 6 days, you should believe the earth is flat. That’s the only way to be consistent. Just sayin’

[@LEGnewTube]

Why?

[@cdlahm7571]

@@LEGnewTube Because if you want to have a biblical cosmology, you can’t reject one part (flat earth) of the biblical cosmology while keeping the other (six day creation).

[@williammedcalf8754]

Hermeneutics matter

[@cdlahm7571]

@@williammedcalf8754 Indeed hermeneutics do matter, and a consistent hermeneutic would either reject science for the ancient worldview entirely, or reject the ancient worldview as a whole. It doesn’t make sense to say modern science can get the shape of the earth right when scientists use the same method to determine the age of the earth, evolution, etc.

[@williammedcalf8754]

@@cdlahm7571 Science proves the Bible true. Flat earth is objectively wrong. Greeks did the calculations thousands of years before it was observable. You can take the word of God as the absolute standard and also acknowledge when Job is speaking in hyperbole. Please read the Bible in its full context. When Genesis is saying 6 days, that is a definite statement whereas Job is speaking in hyperbole and not giving a creation account. That is what I mean when I say hermeneutics matter. I know this is an internet argument and you won't change your mind because of this but here we are...

[@rodneyb5743]

The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. Job 38:14

[@TheDaddyNick]

The title of pastor dean odles' flat earth book "Like Clay Under a Seal"

[@nycgalant]

Terrible proof text for any earth model because it has nothing to do with the earth's model, but focuses on God's creation. Both clay and seals can be formed and created with curvature and garments bend and conform by various shape or body types. Although this is more figurative language in scripture, this is just mere assumption that flat earth advocates use. No offense, I don't care whether the earth is flat or not, since Christ and the gospel is the central focus of scripture, but this passage is a weak argument for a flat earth

[@eugene80112]

💯 The Firmament separates the Waters above from the Waters below.

[@FollowChristFollower]

Signed, The LORD, out the whirlwind. (Job 38:1)

[@LEGnewTube]

Where does it say the earth is flat there?

[@redlettervagrant1159]

Scripture is pretty clear at delineating whether it's to be taken literally or figuratively. You guys are approaching this like anyone who leans toward a belief in the flat earth model is an imbecile and must be spoken to and explained simple things like a child. To say that, if someone was lead to Christ (who is the one who is the gospel) by first deciding that the earth very well may be flat, that that is taking away from the gospel.... umm what? I don't understand that argument at all. People are lead to Christ through numerous things, some of those things are horrific, so what is the argument here? If they turn their belief from flat earth they'll lose their faith? Is the risk not worth more than the reward? Sorry guys, but this has got to be one of the weakest biblical arguments against the flat earth model I've heard to date. You didn't even make any arguments FOR a spherical earth (or "pear shaped" according to modern science), you just went about poking at, seldom-to-never even, used arguments for a flat earth. Would love for you guys to have someone who actually knows what they're talking about come on your podcast and let them explain to you their evidences, biblical and non-biblical, for the case of flat earth.

[@ichoozjc]

But isn't the preaching of the Gospel a means to restore fallen men to their Creator God, through Christ alone? There is only one way in, and that's through Jesus. Jesus never preached flat earth. He preached repentance and forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice, and peace with God through faith in His sacrifice.

[@redlettervagrant1159]

@@ichoozjc I'm missing your point... Yes what you say is true. What does that have to do with anything? If someone is led to Christ by first considering that the earth may be flat, therefore debunking evolution, therefore understanding the requirement of a creator, therefore coming to realize that Jesus and the Bible is the only logical answer... what is wrong with that?

[@ichoozjc]

@@redlettervagrant1159 "Jesus and the Bible is the only logical answer" Answer to what? Let's be humble and admit that we really don't know exactly what shape the earth is. So what if they began their journey through a lie? What would become of their faith when they change their mind on the shape of the earth? Is there not a greater chance that those who's faith is weak would just toss it all out then? "The Bible was wrong about flat earth, it must not be right about Jesus". That's my fear. The shape of the earth has zero effect on the Gospel. It's a trivial matter at the end of the day. I don't need to know that the earth is flat to live a right life for Christ. And preaching the need to believe in a flat earth is just a stumbling block. Yes, there may be many ways that people come to Christ, but adding unnecessary beliefs is not profitable.

[@redlettervagrant1159]

@@ichoozjc Well first of, we don't know what the shape of the earth is and the Bible does not discus such things. So I don't see how anyone could come to faith in Christ by being taught that the Bible teaches that the earth is flat.... because it doesn't. It doesn't say that it isn't though. That's why we have to go outside of scripture to discover such things. "Jesus and the Bible is the only logical answer" To what? To the creation of the universe. If you follow the logic that there is a creator, and you put on trail all of the possibilities, Jesus and the scripture is the only answer that ultimately makes sense. Adding unnecessary beliefs to have someone come to Christ? I never said anything of the sort. The topography of the earth has nothing to do with one's salvation through faith in Jesus. But as I said before... people are raised in the word their entire life's and fall away from their faith due to many things. How is the risk of someone falling away after being led to the gospel after first discovering there must be a creator if evolution is debunked via the earth not being a spinning ball flying around a sun, not worth the reward of them NOT EVER falling away after being saved by this? I thinks it's obvious that the risk far outweighs the reward of a soul saved, when they were lost to begin with and may have never been saved otherwise.

[@ichoozjc]

@@redlettervagrant1159 if someone falls away, repentance is the only thing that can make right their relationship with God. And NOTHING can EVER make someone never fall away but daily faith in Christ and his word. Shape of the earth holds no power in a persons salvation. I hear what you are saying but I don't believe you understand the teachings of Christ sufficiently enough yet. No offense meant.

[@maranathamama]

He who answers a matter before hearing it, it is folly. Friendship with the world is to be at enmity with God. Anything the world silences, mocks or hides should be questioned - seriously. Search out a matter. Desire truth at all costs. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Worship in spirit & in truth as the Father desires.

[@FalconOfStorms]

That's the same logic Mormons use. In reality, it takes more than people laughing at you to prove that you're on the right path. Sometimes people laugh at the truth, but sometimes people also laugh at clowns.

[@nbass5773]

@@FalconOfStorms her point is that these guys are not looking to find the truth on this they are looking to prove their points.. it’s very disingenuous

[@FalconOfStorms]

@@nbass5773 Completely disagree. They're looking to correct people who abuse the Scriptures, and succeeding. Her point is "you're laughing, therefore I'm right and I'm a martyr".

[@nbass5773]

@@FalconOfStorms they are “ correcting” points in scripture that 99% of flat earth Christians have not made.. it’s like debating who is Jesus but defending a ice cream flavor lol !!

[@nbass5773]

@@FalconOfStorms they made zero attempt to actually look into what flat earth Christians believe and then refute their beliefs .. they could of started by bringing on someone who is EDUCATED on the subject of flat earth! The entire part one was about l ends of the earth” no one uses that scripture to defend flat earth!

[@robertearldaniels]

Did you know when you say "I'm not calling anyone stupid" you ARE calling them stupid. You say "anyone with a basic knowledge of the Bible" your belittling those who have a different view of scripture. Shame shame shame

[@saul2571]

I'm starting to see that these guys really don't know the positions they are trying to debunk. Seems like just a bunch of straw men.

[@bbsvchic]

Agreed

[@AProdigalSonReturned]

They won't bring people on that believe anything they are talking about. They won't even respond to comments unless someone is praising them. They might bring someone on one day that knows something about what they are talking about when they do a show on Calvinism.

[@adamperez8555]

Thanks for covering this topic. Get in touch with KZbinr “Truth is Stranger than fiction”. He’s a Christian, he’s a proponent of an enclosed cosmology.I would be intrigued to watch that conversation.

[@mustaffa1611]

i'm betting they're not too interested in anything that doesn't fit their narrative.

[@therick363]

Enclosed cosmology?

[@BeWellBrandon]

@@therick363 the stars, sun, moon are in the sky/firmament, hence “enclosed.” I’m taking an educated guess that’s what OP means.

[@therick363]

@@BeWellBrandon could be. But doubt the OP will actually explain it I’m guessing

[@MaverickPilgrim]

I am a fan of Cultish, I really appreciate the content on this channel. However, I was really expecting more. I’ve never heard anyone use any verses discussed here as “proof texts” of flat earth. Frankly, this is was rather insulting to continually hear “well, you have to remember, this is poetry.” All the verses brought up here are “well, look at that, that verse is interesting if the flat earth model is true…” passages. I know tone can’t be conveyed well in text, but I am not angry-unhinged. I was just really hoping for a good assessment of the theory. I like Winger and I am subscribed to his channel, but why is he here talking about this topic? There are so many good and Biblical teachers who are at least sympathetic to the FE theory who could have discussed this intelligently and rationally. I was just expecting more. Still giving it a like, still subscribed, still a fan of the show. 😀

[@FollowChristFollower]

Haven’t watch it yet, but here I am in the comment section, wondering if I should… 🤔😆

[@MaverickPilgrim]

@@FollowChristFollower Do it! Be a part of the conversation!

[@amyfrey4753]

Agree on all counts. Love cultish but this was extremely disappointing. Spending so much time on ends of the earth was ridiculous. Nobody uses the ends of the earth as proof of the FE model.

[@rachelguy8824]

@@amyfrey4753 how can you say that it’s, on this west side of the us, one of the main arguments for flat earth is that the Bible mentions that there are ends of the earth and if it we’re a globe then the Bible is lying because a globe has no end or at least that’s the arguments I’ve run into 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@ScaleFree777]

I agree Completely! I was even willing to see my faults in my FE belief and willing to see a different view if scripture backs it and they did not do a good job of hitting scripture that is more popular and effective so it didn't work for me. Still Love these guys and maybe when I have more time I'll join their next call for FE debate cuz I couldn't do it last time. God Bless!

[@erlkonig13]

I like cultish but this episode was weak. Really disappointing because this was a topic I was really looking forward to them getting to. I think it was a mistake not to address the NASA/conspiracy stuff. You can't ignore that when talking about flat earth. It would've made the episode so much more interesting. An hour of, "well you have to read the verse in context...and we have to assume that the meaning is what I've already decided it is," isn't going to convince anyone.

[@LEGnewTube]

FE (a lot of them anyway) whole position is that the Bible teaches a FE. That’s why they used the Bible. Talking about a billion different conspiracies isn’t going to get you anywhere.

[@micahlindner6497]

I used to follow this show, and be friends with some of these people on Facebook. I'll watch this episode tomorrow. There's no way these people would have me on their show. If you believe the Earth is a spinning sphere, and that outer space exists, then you believe in things completely opposite of what the Bible teaches. The Bible teaches flat earth. Many Bible stories can't be explained, believing in the Globe. Many Christians are deceived, and fell for Copernicus and the Catholic Church. I'm so glad God opened my eyes about this topic nearly a decade ago. God is literally closer to me now.

[@forscience9977]

Oh no ya'll are not ready to discuss the firmament. Stick to the abortion stuff.

[@Nick_Shepherd]

Gen 1:6 firmament implys flat earth

[@atticuscarr6905]

So funny I just read that last night to the kiddos and it struck me hard that it really looks that there's nothing under the earth, i.e. no space, planets, or stars etc. And that everything God made in the sky's is in the firmament.

[@Nick_Shepherd]

@@atticuscarr6905 that’s right brother

[@boterlettersukkel]

Sorry to tell you but firmament is just a fancy word for the sky above you. No flat earth. Did you just forget the 8th commandment?? Lying for jesus is still lying . There is this very tiny thing about flat earth. YOU have to present *EVIDENCE* for your claims. When are you going to present a map of the flat earth that conforms to reality and that can be used for navigation? When are you going to present the model of the flat earth that explains all observations? *What is be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.* No map, NO model, *NO FLAT EARTH.* Keep it up, You are doing a great job by showing how silly flat earthers are.

[@theeternalempire7235]

No.

[@Nick_Shepherd]

@@shamuscrawford look up biblical use from blue letter Bible. It was used as a physical barrier.

[@jeannemaxwell3173]

Flat earth verses globe earth? This is how the Lord put it to me " You are either going to believe what my word says about the shape of the earth or you are going to believe what NASA says about the shape of the earth. "

[@FollowChristFollower]

💯 “Let God be true, and every human being a liar. “ Romans 3:4

[@BrokTheLoneWolf]

Apologia is right about a lot. But they are so wrong on this one. They can debate almost anyone on this subject and if it’s a fair fight they would lose utterly.

[@therick363]

How would they lose? A fair fight being?

[@BrokTheLoneWolf]

@@therick363 they would lose by simple plain observation and asking basic questions that reveal we are living in a matrix when it comes to this topic. A fair fight meaning that nothing gets laughed off or dismissed for being a new idea but that people take the debate in good faith and investigate on each other sides claims. That’s all we ask for. Seems fair no?

[@therick363]

@@BrokTheLoneWolf plain observation meaning…. _asking basic questions that reveal we are in a matrix when it comes to this topic_ A matrix like computer program? I am always fine with not laughing and dismissing things-as long as all sides do that. That is the part that I’ve found doesn’t happen.

[@BrokTheLoneWolf]

@@therick363 when I’m saying matrix I’m referring to a thought trap that people are caught in that you can only escape by thinking outside what was indoctrinated into you. You are blue pilled by default. You need someone to red pill you to escape the mind matrix.

[@therick363]

@@BrokTheLoneWolf how am I blue by default? _you need someone to red pull you_ Says who? You? You don’t know anything about me yet seem to assume things because I’m simply asking questions? Seems that you have it backwards there. Asking questions shows I have an open mind and I even agreed that people shouldn’t be dismissive right off the bat…yet you’re kinda pulling that on me here assuming and making statements. Why?

[@ledzepaldo]

So assume the bible teaches it’s a ball flying through space swirling around the sun through an expanding universe? Is the universe as we know it mentioned at all in the bible? I watch this channel a lot and exegesis is talked about a lot which I totally believe….what does an exegesis of creation tell us?

[@LogosLogos]

Right?? 🤔 💯.

[@mikebee9883]

I can't even finish watching.. I used to love these guys. They aren't even touching the first book of the Bible. Shame

[@SUA37]

Just show us where the curve is...just that start there.

[@OGDreamer]

They can’t

[@MrBowser2012]

There’s plenty of photos of it but it’s an impossible argument when your opponent believes every bit of evidence is fake. Don’t discount our Lord. He is more than capable of creating a vast universe with galaxies, stars, and planets.

[@SUA37]

@@MrBowser2012 there's actually not. And since there's so much evidence share with us the altitude one must be to observe curvature. Don't waste our time with telling us you've flown on an airplane a couple times and you've seen it, like the rest of us haven't flown hundreds of times

[@OGDreamer]

@@SUA37 nasa themselves say on the website the “photos” are cgi to “help us understand” no photos

[@Mike_W78]

@@SUA37 there are actual non digital photos from outer space. You can measure the curve with shadows.

[@aleph777]

The Bible states that the earth is flat. End of story,

[@andrewgd1858]

absolutely

[@SquishyyyBeaner]

False

[@LogosLogos]

Period.

[@wokeupwakeup3540]

I’ve research this until I’m blue in the face looked at all the Hebrew words for every verse the Bible has with biblical cosmology and then you come on here with the most basic word study that doesn’t even make sense you’re making these words fit your assumed paradigm that you’ve been taught instead of from a perspective from biblical ancient times

[@TheDaddyNick]

Either the Bible is 100% true, factually and scientifically or it is not infallible. There is no playing both sides. DO NOT judge it unless you have discerned the topic against The Bible itself.

[@therockstar17]

Are you aware that the Holy Spirit had the Bible written in different genres and styles? Polemics, law, history, poetry, prophecy, biography, letters. The word of God is infallible but you can’t assert that the Bible is the ultimate source of all science knowledge because it’s not, and the reason it’s not is because that was not the purpose, it’s purpose is to point us to Christ.

[@Dewfasa]

@@therockstar17 amen

[@jessedphillips]

Do you take Revelation as literal prophecy with actual dragons and such?

[@OGDreamer]

Amen!!

[@kamarwashington]

@@therockstar17 amen my brother

[@aharon77]

You should have got an opposing argument on the show. Sean from Kingdom in Context would have been great

[@aharon77]

@@jeep1927 very valid point. I was thinking they might be open to another opinion, but they probably just want everyone to believe their narrative

[@Equalshares]

Absolutely. Is one area where they show seems to fail is to bring in the opposing arguments. Every panel on every episode seems to be very biased

[@logosgaming1987]

Teaching isn’t the same as debate. You don’t have to have someone who teaches wrong present in order to teach right.

[@aharon77]

@@logosgaming1987 The Bible clearly doesn't teach a the earth is magic spinning space ball, a spec, flying through infinity at millions of miles per hour in multiple directions that came out of an explosion caused by nothing for no reason. Wakey wakey. The Bible teaches the earth has foundations, can't be moved, and has a solid structure encasing the atmosphere. It's a biased teaching to push a personal belief. Having an apposing opinion that is based on the scriptures would balance the teaching and help ascertain the Truth

[@banemaler]

This is Part 1

[@Some_One_One]

¥ KZbin ID = Perhaps - Think about how ridiculous it sounds when they say some people 500 years ago KNEW the earth was a spinning ball. So some people with no electricity, and no real technology or air travel, somehow figured the earth is a tiny marble spinning in space? Some guys on horse and buggy wagons, figured out the Earth was a spinning ball with people walking on the sides and the bottom? How exactly?

[@FollowChristFollower]

🤣🤣🤣👍

[@melrandazzo]

Even Copernicus denied his own theory of heliocentrism when the Vatican church chose to adopt it

[@Some_One_One]

@@melrandazzo Now that's fascinating!

[@ukDiamond33]

All on the panel are all heliocentric believers so its very bias you need a christian flat earther to get them to go over the heliocentric view in the bible. Blessings

[@Equalshares]

Even Wernher von Braun the most famous NASA rocket guy admitted on his deathbed that it was all a lie. Even on his tombstone he has the verse in Psalms that says the heavens declare his glory in the firmament displayed his handiwork or something like that. I know I didn't go to just right but that's the gist of it

[@FollowChristFollower]

“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork.” Psalm 19:1 (New King James Version-just for the ‘update’ on “sheweth”) One of my favorite verses in all of God’s glorious, never-changing Word! 🤩

[@Equalshares]

@@FollowChristFollower yessss! HalleluYAH

[@LogosLogos]

@@Equalshares ☝️🙌

[@redlettervagrant1159]

Ok. 25 minutes into this and I have to say... these arguments seem rather disingenuous.. either that or the people who found these "arguments" , scoured through some very ill-informed articles/videos regarding people who lean toward the earth being flat, and chose some of the stupidest arguments. "The ends of the earth" ... that's figurative duh. "All over the face of the earth" figurative duh. I have looked into this topic extensively and have never found someone making these arguments as evidence for a flat earth, no one worth their salt at least. So, here I am at 25 minutes or so, waiting on something compelling or at least realistic. 🤞

[@ichoozjc]

So which passages prove to you that the Bible teaches a flat earth?

[@redlettervagrant1159]

@@ichoozjc There isn't a passage that "proves" the earth is flat, I'm positive I never said anything like that. But there also isn't a passage that "proves" that the earth is shaped like a pear or is a spherical planet racing around the sun at 66,000 miles an hour either. That's why we have to go outside of scripture to discover these things. And once you realize that NASA and like organizations are a bunch of Freemasonic deceivers, all of the scientific "evidence" for a heliocentric system goes straight out of the window.

[@ichoozjc]

@@redlettervagrant1159 brother...NASA is not the only source. There are many others. There is even proof of earth curvature in flat earth videos.

[@redlettervagrant1159]

​@@ichoozjc Of course NASA isn't the only agency of it's sort, but they are all controlled in the same manner. Proof of Earth's curvature in flat earth videos? An example? -___________- There are plenty of examples showing that there is no "curvature" to the earth. Watch one of the video from someone skydiving from the highest point possible, over 24 miles up , if you unfold their fish eye lens, there is absolutely no curvature to the horizon... at all... a completely straight line. If you take a Nikon P1000 camera (which I have and have done this) and watch a ship boat, "go over the horizon or curvature of the earth", and then take your camera and zoom in on that spot, the boat/ship magically comes back (of course i say magically facetiously). There have been many sitings of Chicago from Michigan's shoreline which should be impossible according to what the curvature of the earth is supposed to be, and of course the media chalks it up as a "mirage" which is just lunacy if you look into the type of mirage they are referring to, it's clearly not a mirage. There is so much evidence that says what is taught by mainstream scientists is fa lie, and the more technology and information the average person obtains, the more clear it becomes, explaining the surge of so many people discovering this nowadays.

[@neicy6002]

Mike, normally you're on point, but not this time! The devil is opposite of everything God is, and the "world" teaches that the earth isn't flat!

[@therockstar17]

The world also teaches the sky is blue, that we have seasons, and that we need to eat food, are those lies too?

[@giorhem900]

Learn cultural context plz

[@jessedphillips]

The world teaches that water is important to drink and that smoking causes cancer. Logos spermatikos.

[@jwtrain]

"The devil is opposite of everything God is". Do you have a verse for that?

[@jessedphillips]

@@jwtrain right. Really, the devil is a contortion of everything God is, a twisting of good and right.

[@gangelo777]

You may think the Bible doesn’t support the earth as a flat plane; but it certainly doesn’t support a spinning ball extended in “space”. That’s for bloody sure 😳

[@FollowChristFollower]

💯. Doesn’t support a spinning wet ball, extended in “space”, in risk of being hit by “potentially hazardous” asteroids coming our way every other month… 🙄🤯😵🤐

[@therick363]

Doesn’t matter what the Bible says about the earth. The reality is its a globe.

[@gangelo777]

@@therick363 “because I say it’s so, makes it so” school of philosophy 😂

[@therick363]

@@gangelo777 classic immature response. Not surprising. Got any actual evidence to support your flat earth beliefs??

[@gangelo777]

@@therick363 I think I want to abstain from throwing pearls to swine 🙂

[@joewallman2664]

You need to have a honest conversation about why We see too far. Hence flat earth. This is just all good for thought stuff here. We see further than the curvature allows. And many other examples of we are not on a globe

[@RussianBot4Christ]

You are deflecting from the topic of the video, which is about whether or not the Bible makes a clear cosmological teaching on a flat earth.

[@Nick_Shepherd]

@@RussianBot4Christ gen 1:6 and other verses confirm the earth was not only made before the sun, but stationary and flat

[@therockstar17]

You can’t just say you think we see farther than we should if the earth was a globe. Virtually every flat earth argument I’ve seen is simply, no offense, a gross and ignorant misunderstanding of fundamental, math and science. Math and logic is rooted in God’s nature and science observes His creation. Math and science are not in opposition to the Bible, they’re in agreement.

[@joshx9746]

Dude, when you see too far, you are seeing mirage images from light refraction, this can differ with air temperature, and these things can be calculated with math, just look up the formulas, there is so much evidence for a round earth. If you really look into the flat earth, none of it makes any sense, it doesn't with flight lengths, sunrise and sunset times around the world, flat earth can't even predict when you will see anything in the sky, globe model can predict it all, also, I live in Ohio by lake erie, if what your saying is true, I should be able to see all the way to Canada, but I can't.

[@nelsonomicsruns9246]

Haha seeing some given distance implies in no way a flat Earth. Ships disappear over the Horizon, hence NOT flat earth. But as already stated, this deflects from the specific topic of the video.

[@Yeshuite]

I like pastor Mike Winger a lot but feel too that he was weak in using some not all of these texts to disregard flat earth. Yes poetry is often used to express the similarities of things. No, we don’t believe that God sits on top of the firmament but do believe that heaven is in physical proximity above the firmament. The circle word from Isaiah was never discussed and it’s hermeneutical difference with sphere. If the sun stopped moving does this not make more sense if the sun is physically inside the firmament. Also, we see in the creation account that the larger (sun) and smaller (moon) lights were created after the earth. Interesting to see where they go with firmament as the model for flood with windows and wells of the deep can’t be poeticized. If so then we would have sent the literal nature of the creation account

[@Bigfoottehchipmunk]

I'm glad our interpretation and understanding of the shape of the earth doesn't determine our salvation. It's always an interesting conversation though.

[@lumpygasinavacuum8449]

Tell everyone you know air pressure requires containment space is fake God made earth flat.

[@Bigfoottehchipmunk]

@@lumpygasinavacuum8449 Interpretation of run on sentences is tricky too.

[@martinborboa4293]

Not a salvation issue, but why the lie? Must be very important to “the powers that be” to maintain such a lie. By the way… the earth is flat! God bless us all

[@Bigfoottehchipmunk]

@@martinborboa4293 I don't know. I'm not part of the lie. I just don't think it is a primary, salvational issue. We're all going to learn some mind-blowing things in the end. The reality is likely more amazing and humbling than any adventure writer could ever imagine. There is knowledge kept just out of reach for us here, yes, some by man's design, but more by God's wisdom. He wants us to not miss the main point, redemption through Christ the Son, the Way, the Truth, the Life, through whom we must receive safe passage.

[@dalewyatt230]

It is a salvation issue.

[@cethmar3638]

I really hope you guys get into the creation story next week. I honestly can't see any other interpretation than being literal. I remember being about 12 yrs old and deciding to read the bible front to back and just had SOOO many questions just in the 1st chapter. What's real? God's word or what I've been told at school? I can agree with the poetic interpretations of some verses but the bible clearly describes a geocentric system. Mike heiser is an incredibly accurate biblical scholar that's pro heliocentric and can still admit the bible clearly describes a flat earth model. Its something I've been leaning towards for some years now and NASA and all their extremely fake propaganda and lack of proof for a spherical earth furthers my beliefs in a flat earth with a firmament. The flat earthers have more credible footage than NASA!!

[@jordazmo19]

Not to mention all the incredibly satanic stuff going on with NASA, a whole lot of ritualistic, new age, Luciferian type crap. It makes me think of this verse: ““Though you build high like the eagle, Though you set your nest among the stars, From there I will bring you down,” declares the Lord.” (Obd 4, NASB)

[@daman7129]

This planet is old.

[@cethmar3638]

@@daman7129 about 6000 years old

[@SquishyyyBeaner]

😂😂😂😂

[@rollmops3113]

NASA certainly don't help their case with their awful use of green screens and CGI. I really don't know what I think...I certainly don't believe we went to the moon at the very least... If they did go it's really sad for them not to be believed, but like I said they really don't help their own case .

[@johnQadams107]

The earth was made on day 3 of Creation and the sun on day 5, after He created plant life on day 4. That tells you everything you need to know.

[@danielenriquez9354]

That doesn't mean the earth is flat. It means probably the earth was created in a special way to harbor life, very different from how we know planets form now. Maybe this is the reason why life only exists on earth, but it doesn't mean it is flat. It is actually spherical

[@darthjedi99]

@@danielenriquez9354 you have been brainwashed and dont know scripture. The sun moves in the Bible not the earth. The moon is its own light not a reflection. Either you believe the Bible and Hebrew cosmology or nasa and big bang nonsense.

[@danielenriquez9354]

@@darthjedi99 take a hermeneutics class please. Not everything is literal. The author described the sun moving, because that's what he saw; furthermore, that was written in a poetry tone. You should read the entire Bible first including the original languages before taking a verse totally out of context, like the atheists do.

[@KhayreeBillingsleaMT]

No time to cover the firmament. Ok lol

[@lausdeo4944]

There is a second part... or are you just here to troll?

[@DAVIS__]

Explain how saten took Jesus to the top of the mountain then showed Jesus all the kindoms of the world, does that work on a ball?

[@techdave3915]

from what mountain can you see the whole world, regardless of shape? I'd have to put that on my bucket list.

[@FollowChristFollower]

@@techdave3915 and yet Polaris can be seen from both hemispheres…

[@techdave3915]

@@FollowChristFollower no it absolutely can't be seen below the equator. At the absolute North Pole it's directly overhead but sinks closer to the horizon as the equator is approached, then sinks below the horizon in the southern hemisphere. I live in Australia and definitely can't see Polaris, just as then northern hemisphere can't see the southern cross

[@trss8674]

God brought the kingdoms before his eyes like in a vision?

[@richp3281]

I am so disappointed with one of my favorite channels

[@gangelo777]

I’ve never heard any geocentrist use “ends of the earth” as an argument, are you serious?

[@johnQadams107]

God made the sun stand to aid Joshua in a battle. Tells you everything you need to know.

[@lausdeo4944]

And that means... what? The sun going through the sky stopped moving. Would have worked if the earth stopped spinning just as much as if the magic ball you think the sun is stopped flying.

[@shillsdontspookme9208]

I'm so excited to see that the truth is moving through Christianity at a super high rate right now. "They" have spared no expense to decieve us so that their cult of science would replace God. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. Using our own eyes and minds, we can clearly see that the simplest explanation is the correct one. I believe the Bible. The earth is most definitely not a giant spinning ball zooming through space. My eyes are no longer deceived. 😊 Bless!

[@mariawalker8403]

Etymology of planos - basically defines a flat plane. It’s the origin of the word planet. Maybe you covered it idk.

[@noobitronius]

See this is the problem, the flat earthers are spamming their "proof texts" without even watching.

[@FlatEarthBeekeeping]

It's truly astonishing how many mental gymnastics people have to go to to keep their ball even to the point of trying to fit scripture into their global world view. :(

[@therick363]

That’s a funny thing you say about others having “mental gymnastics”…when every flat earther I’ve tried to talk with does that. They cherry pick science and then refuse to answer questions about flat earth.

[@FlatEarthBeekeeping]

@@therick363 I've experienced the exact opposite. We've piled up a mountain of proof for the globeheads and what do we hear back? Crickets

[@therick363]

@@FlatEarthBeekeeping really now. Then why isn’t it world wide news? Why isn’t it being taught? Why hasn’t the world changed? How did a flat earth form? How high is the dome? How thick? What’s it made of? What’s on the other side? How do you explain plate tectonics? What is the sun? Size and made of? What causes it to move? And yes, why do things “fall” down? You say you have a mountain of proof for “gloabeheads”….let’s hear it……

[@davidwill2747]

The tone of all of your voices is pre-judgemental and pre-decided. Not worth listening to it for a whole hour. If you want to take the Bible literally, then it is a level, plane Earth and no man knows the depth of it. If you accept the atheist science view then yeah sure, its spinning at 66,600 mph even though all of the star patterns have remained the same since recorded. I think its cool this church is touching on the subject but find the dismissive tone of the hosts annoying and pretty ghey overall.

[@FatFueledFamily]

💯 agree

[@noobitronius]

Funny that you call them dismissive and then dismiss them without even hearing their proper exegesis.

[@davidwill2747]

@@noobitronius its not worth an hour I've already heard the Christian science perspective and its inaccurate. Nice try though

[@davidwill2747]

Spinning at 1000 mph. Hurtling at 66600 mph. Unobserved. Bad science. Theatre from satan.

[@noobitronius]

@@davidwill2747 so you suffer greatly from the very thing you criticized them for. Do you not see how ironic it is that you are calling them dismissive?

[@ShamelesslyRed]

The Bible DOES teach flat earth - over 180 verses confirm that. And it's all SCIENCE

[@margot_polo]

when wikipedia stamps a video.... then, well... when is the next flat earth convention? I need a ticket.

[@FatFueledFamily]

October.

[@20LarDoceLar20]

“when wikipedia stamps a video … then, well…” when should I take the 7th booster v@accine shot? I need protection. Thinking cap needs to be put back on, sister!

[@haleybush7995]

I was really enjoying this channel, I’m new but this video left me feeling flat (pun intended) I’ve put in well over 100 hours looking into FE. I understand we cannot twist scripture into a meaning that isn’t there but I didn’t study the scriptures to prove the shape of the earth, I looked at things that are measurable and provable. The scriptures then became more open to me as the heliocentric lie was exposed. Reading about creation in Genesis blew my mind. My Heavenly Father is not some distant figure I am spinning away from on an insignia to water covered ball in an ever expanding vacuum of space (space which literally is nothing) He is right there, heaven is right there above us.

[@cathiegabriel4756]

So disappointed in Apologia. Once again we are church homeless. I will not worship at a church that mocks God’s word.

[@Equalshares]

Very dissapointed. Also with the other attack against Hebrew roots and the ancient ways. Basically slandering an entire,movement because of a few immature brothers and sisters who don't have it just right. This cultish show is just divisive . no fruit here

[@jonsknows5471]

Rob Skiba has a ton of bible flat earth content ..

[@russell77962]

I miss him.

[@LogosLogos]

Don’t think they’d call him if he were still around… 🫤

[@teddyrascal6305]

Great job josiah moeller with your comment below, which actually answers the question. I love you guys at apologia, but its a d- on this one at best.

[@Fillahsofee101]

Must be becoming more commonly accepted if you guys are giving it airtime

[@Paul-rg4is]

....because it's flat

[@LEGnewTube]

Ya just look at the comments…

[@sheep79]

I’ve been subbed to Mike and Apologia for a couple years now, and I love their content. There’s lots of great info in this video but they really do a poor job at representing the flat earth view and bring up the weakest arguments from scripture. I really wish they would’ve gone in depth into Genesis and the creation story. Can’t wait for part two and maybe they could bring on an individual who’s a believer and also subscribed to biblical cosmology. Idk what we’re living on but I do not believe in the heliocentric model by any means.

[@ichoozjc]

Biblical cosmology is not really a thing, though. The Bible never claims to be a science book. Using it as one is just user error. Read Psalm 119 and you'll understand what the Bible is. Taking it literally in order to prove the Earth's shape is wrong, no matter what side you are on. At the end of the day it doesn't matter. I personally think it's a giant universe with stars and planets and moons. And it edifies my faith in Christ knowing that He created it and He holds all of it together. But it's not Gospel. It's a personal conviction that, at the end of the day, my faith does not rest on. A big FE argument is that the powers that be are trying to hide God in some way by lying to us about the shape of the earth. This argument is silly because the majority of the population believes in a Creator. So it's a fruitless lie, imo.

[@sheep79]

@@ichoozjc okay maybe not “Biblical Cosmology” but Hebrew cosmology is for sure a field of its own and there’s something to be discussed and explored when discussing the creation in scripture. I do think the shape of the earth matters and is a very big deal but it’s true that it’s not a salvation issue. There are some weak arguments but also some seriously strong arguments stating that at the very least, we do not live in a heliocentric universe. The most important thing will always be one’s relationship with Christ. However Flat Earth is a topic that we’ve been manipulated into thinking is ignorant of basic knowledge and science. There needs to be a genuine deep dive into this when it comes to the scientific method and theology.

[@ichoozjc]

@@sheep79 there has been much study on the shape of the earth. It's just that's it's ALL handwaved away by flat earthers. That's unfair. Here's all I needed to prove to myself that the earth is not flat. The sun illuminates the underside of clouds at sunset/sunrise. Geometrically impossible on a flat earth. Seen it with my own eyes. Have also seen the sun illuminate the ceiling of an airplanes cockpit at sunset. The airplane was around 35k feet of altitude. Geometrically impossible, unless you can fly over the sun. Not a single FE proponent has answered this. Can you? Also, there are many pictures of the sun casting the shadow of a mountain UPWARDS onto clouds. Again, impossible on a flat earth.

[@sheep79]

@@ichoozjc nope, can’t answer it. That’s a solid point you’ve made. I never made the claim that the earth is flat I just don’t subscribe to heliocentrism. I don’t have all the answers and neither do you. What always gets me is the lack of curvature over water. I’ve watched the documentary by FECore with laser measurements (while accounting for refraction) over long distances of water with no curvature found. That’s an equally interesting argument to your example. The debate still isn’t settled. Do you take take the creation story in genesis literal or metaphorical? Or do you just think it was some primitive old dude that just described what he saw when he looked up

[@ichoozjc]

@@sheep79 I take it literally but I'm still on the fence as to whether it was a global or local flood. I believe in miracles. I believe in the supernatural. I put trust in God over science. I just don't hand wave away ALL evidence if it isn't from a source I like or trust. NASA isn't the only agency that has video and photo evidence of curve. FECore has their own issues. If they lied once, would you dismiss ALL their evidence, like many do with NASA? I was talking about the lunar missions with my wife the other day. I told her I almost discredited the moon landings based on a couple videos I seen on KZbin. They were very compelling. But did you know that we went to the moon multiple times? What would be the point of lying about all of them? And why keep building spaceships and why have plans to go back to the moon and even mars? If they were trying to deceive then wouldn't one single fake trip be enough? The more elaborate the lie, the more chance you have of being caught. That's a fundamental truth of lying. The world has been convinced about the earth being a sphere for 100's of years. It makes no sense to keep lying when you've already convinced everyone, does it? And not to mention...3/4 of Earth's population believes in a Creator and has zero issues with the shape of the earth. You think if the earth was revealed to be flat that man would ALL go running back to God? We'll, according to the Bible which people claim teaches a flat earth....even during those times people STILL rejected God. The problem is sin, not science.

[@redlettervagrant1159]

While you guys are convinced that your interpretation of the text renders the idea of the earth being flat, null and void... those who believe contrarily are just as convinced that you are wrong. So... . I think that we must observe the heavens and the earth and let the self proclaimed glory of God give credence to who is right and who is wrong. I don't think this discussion can be had without inserting science into it.

[@ichoozjc]

Is science evil?

[@redlettervagrant1159]

@@ichoozjc What? What kind of question is that? What about anything I said derived that question? Science is a way of understanding... it isn't a "thing" that can be good/evil.

[@FollowChristFollower]

“…For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God…” 2 Peter 3:5 ESV

[@adamperez8555]

I submit this for your consideration: if we stand on a sphere, then there is no up and there is no down. If such is the case about something as simple as the “truth “of up or down, and by necessity your reasoning must appeal to relativism, how much greater does the problem become with issues of greater complexity?

[@ThatSoulsGirl]

There's always a up and a down. It's a concept called gravity. Up or down, when it comes to earth, is relative to your position on it.

[@matthewallen1266]

First of all the earth is not “just” a sphere “if you strip away the oceans, it looks more like the half finish Death Star from Star Wars 6” like your tennis balls, but it is sphere with a super heated core that acts as an engine that generates an electromagnetic field. On such a sphere of course you can have up and down because it is based on the object relative to the center of gravity which is the center of the sphere, which is an generator of electromagnetism.

[@hwjchimyaj121]

@@ThatSoulsGirl oh. Direction is relative? I see.

[@Chirhopher]

up or down is relative to Where You are... thus, conNot be sure as you speak of. Wherever You are, there would be and up and down from there, no matter. But, how important is this issue in the big scheme of Eternal Reality? Is it a 1st tier ESSENTIAL, Like The TRINITY and the DEITY Of CHRIST? Is this second tier, Third.. how often do You speak about this compared to abortion and then ultimately compared to The GOSPEL?

[@hwjchimyaj121]

@@Chirhopher flat earth is a teaching of the Bible, but it's not the Gospel. Yet this discussion is based on a video which seeks to prove that the Bible does not teach flat earth. Hence, your question is somewhat irrelevant. If direction is relative, then how will all eyes see Jesus descending from the clouds? Is that relative also? Or will only some eyes see Jesus coming?

[@zacharyhoman9486]

People should look into what "astrology" and "astronomy" is and where it's rooted, biblically.

[@YARDMAN-g6h]

This was a huge disappointment without having an opposing view. I realize Winger seems to think he is the authority when interpreting scripture, I would disagree. How about showing us how scripture proves the earth is a sphere, good luck. Aa for your interpretations seeming like a "dodge" I would agree.

[@ichoozjc]

The Bible is not and never claims to be a science book. Anyone trying to prove a scientific or cosmological viewpoint is using it in a way it was never intended. You agree?

[@FollowChristFollower]

💯. “Let God be true, and every human being a liar.” Romans 3:4

[@LEGnewTube]

First, Winger has never said he believes himself to be the authority. So you can dismiss that ad-hominem. Second, he said during this video he wasn’t making an argument for the spherical earth. He said several times he was simply demonstrating the Bible doesn’t prove the earth is flat.

[@nbass5773]

At the 33 min mark all you guys are still talking about is “ends of the earth” lol I am soo disappointed!! It’s like you guys found the dumbest flat earth people and took the dumbest points from them and made this video lol this feels soo disingenuous! I’m surrounded by people who view a biblical non sphere earth and I have never once heard “ends of the earth “ be used as defense of non sphere earth.. this is weak at best!! Shame!

[@bambamperry07]

I would love to see this channel interview someone who is deep in the biblical earth model (flat earth model) rather than someone who is against it. Find Robbie Davidson and interview him!

[@eagleclaw1179]

Dude the earth isn’t flat

[@therockstar17]

The Bible doesn’t give an earth model, you’re extracting one from text that’s not meant for that and using it to deny actual science that observes God’s magnificent creation

[@Yesica1993]

The Bible nowhere teaches the falsehood that the earth is flat.

[@SquishyyyBeaner]

Dude the earth isn’t flat. Lol

[@IuliusAnacyclus]

@@eagleclaw1179 The earth is 100% flat, maybe not purely flat, but definitely not a sphere

[@lausdeo4944]

Dang. Excellent video. I'm seeing a lot of trolls expressing their vague "disappointment" with this video for "being biased" or something. As if they're not.

[@DEAD4LIVE]

There are Christian channels that dont make the flatness irrational like mike winger tried to do. The earth has ends, the synonym for earth in the bible is land. There's a point where u reach the end of all land and you have to travel by sea. An Ice wall is not considered land, it would be a wall that goes up to the heavens. It may even be made out of diamond scripturally. That was a bad "steelman" attempt from mike.

[@jwtrain]

strawman

[@troywardjr1216]

Well thats why we need to study and aim to figure out what God meant by the word and not neccesarily what it says. A example of this is jw's who use colosions where it says Jesus was the first born of all creation and thus say he must have been created the issue is, that is not what God meant by the passage. We know this by studying that passage and not only that one but others as well. So yes it could mean land and it could mean a lot of things but, it doesn't.

[@noobitronius]

That is some bad exegesis

[@maynard8556]

It’s like listening to Mormons dance around the “plain reading” of the word.

[@EBAYBONNIE]

He just made all of this up off of his perception. SMH

[@baileyunivers6105]

If I’m gonna fight about anything, it’s gonna be Andrew’s pronunciation of “chasms” which the hard “ch” ha ha ha

[@FollowChristFollower]

Haven’t started watching it yet, but came straight to the comment section. Can’t wait to hear it 😳🤣🤣

[@sozei]

THE EARTH IS FLAT AND STATIONARY

[@Djcanhandleit]

Lame. I was a heliocentric believer, now because of the flat earth debate I was exposed to biblical cosmology. It was so revolutionary to me that I could actually take Gods word for what it said, His throne is directly above me, I can never escape His sight !! Knowing this I was able to lay down and 11 year alcohol addiction! After receiving, deliverance from that iniquity in my life, it has set me up to work past the many other issues God has wanted to work out in my life. I say this episode is lame because now I have believers trying to convince me that I cannot just simply read the Bible and take God at his word. The Holy Spirit leads us to all truth. If you were trying to convince any fe’s or biblical cosmologist then your plan failed. You had three participants who already have the heliocentric perspective in which the interpret the scripture regarding creation and descriptors of this physical realm. Why don’t you have anyone on who can explain the root word definitions, in context to the Scriptures which they were spoken? Have you guys thought of doing an exhaustive research study of the heliocentric model, and the Luciferian foundations of it? Heliocentric-schism is a religion under the disguise of pseudoscience.

[@BeWellBrandon]

Thank you for sharing your testimony! I want to share that when I had this same revelation by the Holy Spirit of Jesus about two years ago, I was so amazed and awestruck! Our Lord and God is near! “Do you not know? Have you not heard? Has it not been declared to you from the beginning? Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth? It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ “The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, And night unto night reveals knowledge. There is no speech nor language Where their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, And their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, And rejoices like a strong man to run its race. Its rising is from one end of heaven, And its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat.” ‭‭Psalms‬ ‭19‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭🙏

[@Djcanhandleit]

@@BeWellBrandon AMEN! I love His response to Job also!

[@bambamperry07]

You don't have to just read it contextually but also original languages.

[@lausdeo4944]

Then explain what verses in the original language disprove what is said.

[@zacdredge3859]

A genuine question to any of the FE folks complaining that Mike didn't address 'key, popular verses' or anything to that effect; what are they? Popularity is kind of a relative thing and you can't really expect us to just know implicitly what Scriptures you weigh most strongly. 😐

[@TheDaddyNick]

Yes it does. Have Pastor Dean Odle on your show.

[@nycgalant]

Even better, i Would love to see christian astrophysicist and apologist Jason Lisle on the show who supports spherical earth using both the bible and science

[@athankfullprepper334]

Yes! I love him😊👍

[@americaone749]

Enoch in his book describes how the sun and moon, move over the earth. Didn't Enoch not die and was taken by God, if he was giving bad information, how was he bestowed such an honor as, not dying?

[@Reformed_Borzoi]

The book of Enoch is not scripture,and aswell was not written by Enoch,it was written in 200 BC.

[@jaynenord101]

@@Reformed_BorzoiBook of Enoch is endorsed in the Cannonized Bible as well as the Book of Jasher. In fact there were 88 books but the cannon blew them apart and the KJV only has 66. 🙏💯🔥🔥🔥

[@thepattons1133]

It would be cool if you guys could do an Interview/debate with( Kingdom in Context or Wesblaze).

[@td6259]

I was going to say the same thing. Kingdom in context would be an interesting debate. Let's pray Yah gives us a humble Spirit in discussing all matters.

[@Ironica82]

@@jeep1927 False. Only some can actually be good debaters. They are not. They are interviewers.

[@stevenbarger7850]

Mike winger is my favorite Arminian teacher. Don’t agree with everything but imo he’s solid

[@jasonhussong1378]

He isn’t an Arminian. He holds to a “traditionalist” or “free-grace” theology.

[@historicworker]

at any one moment of human life on earth, the daily experiential human perception of the earth is one that is a flat dome...

[@historicworker]

ie, everyone lives on a flat plane of a round planet

[@dixiestory7426]

Ultra boring and the guy says “ I think” a lot!! That doesn’t prove anything to me about his interpretation!

[@socketman]

I like Mike Winger but he's weak on this topic

[@somemedic8482]

Looking at the comment section, im actually shocked at the number of people who subscribe into the whole flat earth ideology. It’s disturbingly high.

[@hwjchimyaj121]

What's disturbing is you being disturbed about people who believe that the Bible teaches flat earth.

[@somemedic8482]

@@hwjchimyaj121 oh wow, here comes one them.

[@hwjchimyaj121]

@@somemedic8482 there are a lot of them including many of our Christian forefathers. 😉

[@Semper_Fish]

@@somemedic8482 The irony is that many flerfs know more about heliocentric cosmology than the patronizing presenters and commenters like yourself. Then you act like the appalled one being insulted who thinks they did no provocation. High chance that you don't know the basic specs of heliocentrism let alone any hypothesis about flat earth.

[@somemedic8482]

@@Semper_Fish oh wow, you guys are really serious about this flat earth thing. Initially i thought you flat earthers were just a bunch of trolls playing pranks on the rest of humanity, but you guys actually do exist. Incredible.

[@KVOTHE_33]

Such a beautiful video, watching you guys wrestle with verses clearly describing the stationary non-spherical Earth we live on was such a blessing. I have faith you'll figure it out too, mostly a heart issue more than anything.... accept you've been fooled and God will sort out the rest! Praying for Apologia!

[@FalconOfStorms]

I was really blessed by seeing your passive-aggressiveness level reaching 11/10

[@KVOTHE_33]

If you projected passive aggression into that comment, that’s on you. I genuinely enjoyed watching!

[@FalconOfStorms]

@@KVOTHE_33 12/10!

[@thomasdobbs4654]

Should get another Christian on the channel that believes the flat earth model. I mean you even started off saying we aren’t shill for nasa. Lol I knew you guys for for the globe before I watched the video. Very bad scripture taken for the conversation on the topic.

[@bambamperry07]

That's great Mike Winger! Everything is poetry, I would love to debate him on this subject with my limited knowledge.

[@eagleclaw1179]

Dude the earth isn’t flat

[@MikeWinger]

I didn’t say everything is poetry. I said poetry is poetry.

[@bambamperry07]

Understandable but it seems with a lot of the verses that could be interpreted as a flat plain you said it was poetry. Please look up Robbie Davidson's Impossiball, and his other videos on Celebrate truth channel, very informative. I would love to see the two of you debate as well on this subject.

[@Yesica1993]

Get on a boat and sail to the edge/end. Take some pics. We'll wait.

[@eagleclaw1179]

@@bambamperry07 Do you know that psalms and ecclesiasties, songs of sololomon, are all pretty much poetry. The fact is the proper way to understand scripture is first to figure out what kind of genre of literature it is. It’s called hermeneutics. Is it possible that you are taking literally verses that aren’t meant to be taken literally

[@YTCelt]

Such a pathetic, low-effort, low-respect way to handle this topic.

[@stwrong1255]

So you dodge sun standing still, shocker. Talk about building up straw men and attaking non proof texts. At least be genuine.

[@SquishyyyBeaner]

Bro the earth isn’t flat.

[@ds29912]

That's addressed at 48 minutes. So you didn't even watch this did you?

[@troywardjr1216]

Can you give me an example of a strawman that was used in this video please?

[@demetriak837]

@@ds29912 such a disingenuouswwwwwwww comment. They did not address that verse at all for their entire viewership base to hear their take and discern for themselves. Around 48min they literally said they aren't able to cover that verse but will write something on their blog about it.

[@jessedphillips]

How would the sun standing still support a flat earth view? In any case, it is miraculous, flat or round.