Apple AirPlay's audiophile 'Easter Egg'

[@meneer_kooi4466]

When I first started watching your channel I was drawn by the mid century modern interiors, your down to earthness and the intro's with the coffee making. Love to see that nothing has changed and the coffee making is back :)

[@AndyP126]

Just because AirPlay is sending things in bursts doesn't automatically mean it's lossy. You can send things in chunks and then reassemble them into a 16/44.1 PCM file in buffer. That doesn't prove anything. You need to intercept the traffic and actually look at the data in the packet.

[@tgp-2]

Correct ... "continuous" network transfer vs bursts doesn't prove anything, but it's an easy way to visually identify buffered vs real-time Airplay streams ... comparing the average bitrates is more convincing More details available here ... docs.google.com/document/d/1BUee0PqM6LC4lo6HqTtEb5bQxs4GoCFSxvEsOveWvS8/edit?usp=sharing

[@JerryZigmontMacWorks]

If your are interested in picking up a used Airport Express with Airplay 1 note that there are two versions- The first Express (model A1084) was wireless A/B/G, and the next gen (model A1264), obviously, is wireless N. They both look the same in the old body style. More importantly, the oler model A1084 doesn't interface with Airport Utility 6.0. at all. It can't be recognized by your network if you're running 6.0 - you'll just see the amber light. So you will need the A1264 to use with Airport Utility 6.0 and have the benefit of N wireless along with Airplay 1.

[@neekondrums]

Absolutely love this video. This is exactly the kind of information I look for, which is to say that it's technical and specific, but it is also not above my head and nicely contextualized so that people can decide for themselves whether or not it's worth taking any action to address. Useful information without a whole lot of judgement or hyperbole. Hit me right in the sweet spot. Thanks.

[@tomhohum4275]

I watched this whole presentation to the end and hardly understood any of it. Good job, John 😉. Always entertaining!!

[@christophergray576]

As a test this I sent a tidal stream (Airplay 2 - tick in white circle) via the iOS tidal app from my iPad via Air play to my Lyngdorf TDAI (Airplay 2 according to Lyngdorf website). The Lyngdorf tells me that it is playing at PCM 16 /44 so CD quality - I’m properly confused.

[@tgp-2]

some amount of audio data is permanently discarded when encoding to a lossy file format (in this case, AAC) ... all compressed formats (whether lossy or lossless) have to be decoded at the receiving end and output to a format the DAC can use (in this case, PCM 16/44)

[@sydlow]

That's because the Tidal App is sending it as Airplay 1 - which is the continuous stream. The app developer can specify AP1 or AP2, regardless of the hardware connection protocol - according to Brother Thomas.

[@reviewlaunch]

To play cd quality from Apple Music. You need a1264 airplay 1 . Connect to a good dac . And set to 7.5.2 version.

[@cab325i]

Idk if it's new, but you can set hi -res lossless for wifi streaming in settings - music - audio quality. When streaming from my phone to a receiver connected to my hifi, it now tells me it's 24/96 just like when the iPad is connected via usb-c to my dac.

[@livtf886]

Is that when streaming using Airplay 2?

[@Archchill]

this is for streaming to the device. So the device itself will receive the full lossless data but when sending it out over airplay 2 it will down convert to 256kbps AAC. Unless you’re sending it over airplay 1 it is lossy.

[@tmtrueblood]

This is the most helpful insight to AirPlay I’ve seen. Now, I have to decide which streaming service I need to move to to get the max data rate and best quality. Love the channel and all the information. Bang up job!!!!!!

[@KellyPauw]

I like your videos. Extremely easy to understand hard to get material like losless, lossy, hardware and app differences. However I am missing an overview which apps support airplay 1 for losless music.

[@Cathul]

When you put the music files onto your iOS device it's always transmitted with ALAC encoding. The fallback to AAC is only if the files are streamed wirelessly from another device to the iOS device to the AirPlay2 receiver. I verified this with my own shairport-sync installation which has a debug mode when started on the command line. ;)

[@jasongoughuk]

So if I download an album that I would like to listen to in the lossless quality option, and then airplay stream it to my Bluesound powernode… That would continue to transmit in CD lossless quality? And are you sure about your findings?

[@garyvaiskauckas8463]

Great investigative work John and Brother Thomas! .... May I suggest a topic for another video: the Apple Music app feature to "Control Other Speakers & TVs" for those who want to stream Apple Music Lossless controlled by their iPhones. I avoid AirPlay 1 or 2 for reasons that John stated in the beginning of the video (battery drain, loss of music when out of WiFi range, or interruption when taking a phone call). My preferred method is to use the iPhone as merely a remote control by choosing the option to "Control Other Speakers & TVs". In my case the other devices are Apple TV 4K's connected via HDMI to Oppo 205 and 105D. The device being "controlled" then streams Apple Music Lossless directly from the internet. Cheers, Gary

[@YouTubes33]

That's a useful comment. Will definitely try that! 💯

[@nikhoward]

Thought I was watching James Hoffman for the first 40 seconds.

[@gregfd]

Hello, interesting work but I’m not sure it’s totally sorted out. How about the other Airplay 2 feature allowing you to take control of the receiver without streaming to it? (As mentioned by an other comment there’s the option at the bottom of your phone’s screen in the video) In this situation, and from my own experience, the phone is totally removed from the audio path and you could even shut down your phone. Is Apple streaming lossless music or lossy music from Apple server to the receiver?

[@Serge1754]

Exactly! Very good question

[@vladimirkremlacek]

So that means only way how to get Lossless sound from Apple Music iOS app is using wired connection when receiver is AirPlay2?

[@markdowner2435]

I’ve been using the DJ Pro app on and off and recently they updated so that you can play Apple Music through it. If you then use Apple Music to Airplay the music to WiiM Pro, the WiiM app shows 900kbps as opposed to the 256kbps if you Airplay directly from Apple Music. Appears to be gapless too (appreciate is a dj app with mixing anyway.)

[@kenmace933]

I love the coffee intros John!

[@leemazur870]

Very pleased to see your upgraded coffee game - filter coffee is the best coffee! Try a stir of the slurry at the end of your pouring to get those high and dry grounds to draw down fully - you'll get a more even extraction and balanced cup.

[@LencoTB]

Coffee isn’t healthy as many people think. It contains acrylomide

[@sixergixer]

@@LencoTBNeither is the air we breath.

[@higurashinerd]

I love the more technical discussions! Especially on the software/hardware interaction. Knew of Airplay 1 & 2 but not of their technical differences. A lot of the information here confirms my own suspicions about AirPlay's 'inconsistencies' and why I disliked Apple Music over even just Spotify in some cases.

[@johnpischedda6951]

Hi John! Dig the Jazz soundtrack music on this vid. As stated, the apple airport needed a 3.5 to to toslink cable to your DAC. Unfortunately i found the drop outs unbearable. I had to go 3.5 to RCA into the amp and use the internal airport DAC. With this configuration at the time, I found the sound decent with no drop outs. Things have moved on from then with Connect features and DAC's. But you got me thinking ! Im going to do a comparison between my old Apple Airport set up and current streaming kit to hear how far along i've actually come.

[@johnfogarty4720]

Why oh why oh why. Just keep it simple Apple FFS. Stop thinking for us. Thankyou Brother Thomas and Brother Darko for this analysis. I just want to hit play and listen to lossless music all the time. This is not science fiction.

[@txerapng]

Great video. when using AirPlay from my iPhone to my macbook on Spotify, it seems to cut the high frequencies above 17khz, so in that case it is definitely not lossless. Would that be Airplay 2? edit: i know Spotify itself is not lossless, but I'm talking about the transmission process from the phone to the computer being lossless itself.

[@absolutium]

Isn't Spotify already cutting high frequency sounds way before the track arrives to the phone?

[@txerapng]

@@absolutium I'm not sure, but i'd think it's not.

[@dexon555]

I sometimes stream Apple Music from my modern iPad to my Rotel A11 Tribute. The songs will usually say Lossless or High Res during playback, am I getting the best quality possible?

[@punkgoblin1168]

Yes, no, and maybe. Are you running a hard-wired Lightning to USB-C to an external DAC? YES! Are you sending it to a Bluetooth receiver? NO! Are you doing something else? MAYBE! I use an Apple dock with a 3.5mm output and a Lightning connector for power to an SVS 2000p Pro sub, then after it crosses over the signal at 88Hz it sends everything above that to my Bose 901 V EQ, and then that signal goes to my Crown DC300-II amp and off to the 901's - If I want to rock out like a mofo. Otherwise, I bypass the Bose EQ and it goes from the sub to the amp to my Magnepan IIB's. Planning to add some Cesti-B's and Polk 10b monitors to the mix soon as speakers seem to make the greatest difference in the sound I hear. Oh, and contemplating making some open baffles with a concentric tweeter in the midrange driver, ABX Audiophiles design.

[@kekomelero]

And btw, when i play apple music, spotify, amazon music,… to my Eversolo DMP A6 (airplay 1 receiver), via Airplay (iphone 13 ), it doesnt get the circle, so i asume it’s changed to airplay 1 when it gets the signal, but on the screen of the Eversolo, says AAC 44.1khz. So i dont know if its still compressed. Thanks a lot!

[@gregorioavalos1256]

I know little to nothing but Apple natively in lossless is AAC 44.1khz so that’s the best case… but I’ve only researched for 30 min

[@DarkFire515]

Great video, and also a great V60 pourover technique!

[@Jahwobbly]

thanks. perfectly on point. Educational. I think "paradox" is more befitting than "Easter Egg" in the title.

[@robertson1a]

Love your reveal of why Brother Thomas is named so at the end.

[@goldenears9748]

Amen brother Thomas

[@Sven-yl4py]

I use my Apple TV 4K to stream Apple Music over Airplay to my Powernode 2i. I start it with a scenario in the Home app activating them to play an album or playlist which I change from time to time. I then use Control other speakers….. in the Controlcenter on my iPhone or iPad to manage the music playback. This works very good, even better now with IOS 17. I have compared the sound with Tidal, and I really can’t tell any noticeable difference. I have read that the HomePod uses 24/48 Bitrate when paired with an other HomePod. Can it be that Apple Music down samples to AAC when you stream over Airplay from an iPhone or iPad to preserve power, and use ALAC when streaming from an AC connected device like HomePod and Apple TV when power consumption is no issue. It would be interesting if you John or Brother Thomas, or anybody else, could try to verify this. As I say, Apple Music over Airplay from Apple TV to my Powernode 2i sounds really good and is super easy to operate with the Home app.

[@Selene_M3]

Spotted the Baratza grinder. I use my iPhone to control the AppleTV4k for Apple Music, HDMI to AVR. Still have an AirPort Express in a box not currently used.

[@me2ato]

I Jhon, How do you keep the Airport Express running in 2023? I have one and I haven't been able to use it in a while.

[@mwmaccount]

John, thank you for an excellent installment. This clarity is much needed.

[@BrentWatkinsMusic]

I like the nod to Cheapaudioman - except you show how a proper cup of coffee should be made.

[@2shoestoo]

Does that imply my Kcups suck? 😀

[@stevenwymor1398]

Actually, the Apple Airport Express 1st gen supports Airplay 2 if it is the A1264 updated version and is using firmware 7.8 or higher. It also has draft N wi-fi support. The 2nd gen Airport Express A1392 came with Airplay 2 support and was released as far back as 2012. Only the original version A1084 which was draft G wi-fi is limited to Airplay 1. So I think you're mistaken about Airplay capability for those devices. And I own and have used all three iterations.

[@ridley68]

You explanation here on why you think it is lossy is either poor or plain wrong. Just because data is sent in bursts does not mean that less data is sent. Full lossless CD Audio is approx 1.5 MBytes per second so approx 15MBytes ever ten seconds. A 5GHz wireless connection can transmit about 130MB per second so you'd need a little over 1/10th second burst to provide all the lossless data you need for the next 10 seconds of playback. It would be highly inefficient to send a tiny amount of data continously. I am suprised tgat AP1 apparently took this approach, bizarre. Do you think the streams that you get from TIDAL or the like are continuous? Well they're not, all Internet data is split up and sent across the Internet in chunks. The chunks may or may not arrive in the right order, but that doesn't matter they're put back together again, perfectly. Besides the next part of the file is only sent when the receiver requests it, the transmitter doesn't just keep sending a huge file as one continuous lump without any handshaking and control from the receiver end.

[@lxduc]

Found at home in a box an old Apple TV Gen 2 with optical output, connected it to a optical input of my Naim NAC N272, and what a breeze, cd quality from Apple Music and my iTunes stored CDs. Just connected without screens or nothing else and it appeared, then selected, and bam, there we went...

[@michaelruss9604]

This finally explains why there is an easily perceptible difference (for me) between playing music locally through my M1 Mac mini as the source for my hifi rack vs streaming from my 13mini! I did tons of research a while ago and the findings were similar in that AirPlay 1 devices reliably did cd quality lossless, however there was no rhyme nor reason to it. Nice to have an explanation :)

[@LoniGuitarChannelHr]

There is one more mode when Apple stream losess - from Mac, when you in audio setting in remote control app (or in apple music app on Mac) select streamer as output device.Then you should get lossless audio stream, you can then control playback with remote app.

[@paulinquebec]

I’ve noticed this stays as lossless too… but I have read in other threads that it’s only really indicating the source quality and upon arrival AirPlay 2 is still playing as lossy aac.

[@aarondr0pdead]

Thank goodness for this pious audiophile and his devotion.

[@richdyer2000]

What I don’t get is the causal relationship between the type of streaming and compression. You can also have lossy compression with continuous streaming and lossless with burst streaming.

[@leemazur870]

It’s a way to keep multi speakers sync’d and connection more reliable.

[@marcgoldstein2957]

I can smell the coffee looking at this.

[@blairholmesproductionsinc.9432]

Thanks for the info John Ndola Brother Thomas. Love the music and opening b roll on this one too!

[@stevenwaldstein2249]

Thanks for the video. Still confused on how to play my Apple Music to my stereo with either a WiiM Pro or Node 2i end point. Also using Roon server for all my ripped CD in FLAC but know how that works. Must I go thru an iPhone or iPad?

[@maximumsoftness7469]

Outstanding organization of information and delivery of such! Well done Mr. Darko.

[@SauRoNZA]

Doesn’t the iPhone/iPad/Macbook handover the stream to the “speaker” device so it essentially directly streams from the source? Or does that only apply to Apple device like the HomePod or Apple TV?

[@olligps]

Whats about streaming via Apple TV via HDMI to a TV and from the TVs Toslink to the Amp? I considered quality is way better than via Airplay.

[@i.am.Crispin.Crunch]

Do you mean streaming directly inside Apple TV's native Apple Music app? Unless you're using ethernet cable, I think any AppleTV HD and 4K are Airplay2. If via iPhone + any app using Airplay2 = it might be downsampling to 256kbps AAC. So, Toslink might account for some sonic improvement above Airplay. Methinks there is also some sonic improvement via optical Toslink and could also be benefitting from your amp/receiver's DAC + implementation. Per John's comments at the end, if your iPhone Airplay menu shows just a Checkmark = Airplay1. If iPhone Airplay menu shows a filled in Circle with a Checkmark = Airplay2.

[@marks42]

That’s how my system is setup… so is that lossless as it is potentially hard wired from router to play device. But as I instigated the stream from an iPhone or I pad would this be lossy… But I quite often go direct from a Ethernet connected Apple TV OS to a HDMI TV then hard wired to amp? Now as a person has already said… my brain hurts 🤯🤯🤯🤯🤯

[@shrt64]

apple tv converts any audio format (except dolby atmos) to pcm 48khz

[@jasoncosta5070]

It is, I do the same. That way your phone is just a remote and the ATV is the streamer and it's streaming in lossless.

[@bodowagener2670]

Streaming Airplay to the Cambridge Audio CXN V2. How can I find out whether the CA app is a AP1 or AP2 implementation?

[@esiu74]

What if my speakers have built-in Tidal streaming (LSX II), then the iOS app won't matter, right?

[@bennozoid1]

Loving the channel. Thanks for all the great insights Sir!

[@Sven-yl4py]

Another thought regarding the HomePod 2, as it sends 24/48 to another paired HomePod 2, can it also connect via Airplay to another brand of Airplay 2 receiver with 24/48, not paired?

[@Sven-yl4py]

Thank mongo2044, do you know what Bitrate the HomePod streams over Airplay? Is it AAC or ALAC?

[@ShouPow]

Honestly this "bombshell" makes me feel good about buying a roon lifetime subscription instead of switching to iOS. Bless

[@NeilLavitt]

Interestingly, you can use an iPad as an effective Roon endpoint that plays RAAT streams. Roon, however, is not a solution for Apple Music users.

[@themilk3]

Please continue this kind of videos....this was so interesting and informative. It's crazy how there is now direct info on this on Apple's website for example. Oh and thank brother Thomas (I hope I wrote his name right HAHAH)

[@jt209539]

But what about if I just use the Apple Music app on the AppleTV? There’s no need to bring AirPlay into it that way. Just set the Music app in the tv settings to Lossless, right?

[@gregorioavalos1256]

You need to go into setting, apps music, and switch to lossless.

[@1actionkamen]

Good to know! I am still using shairport-sync on my nano-pi with toslink hat and even considered replacing it Wiim pro just to get Airplay 2. I think i will skip this upgrade then :)

[@kl9941]

John, this is f***king insane. It does explain finally why when I stream Amazon Music or my ripped CD's via AirPlay (I assume AP2) on an iPhone 12 to the Wiim Mini endpoint, the sound is definitely inferior as compared to streaming CD quality from the Wiim Mini Amazon app to the Mini endpoint. I thought I was imagining the lower audio quality. Thanks to you and Brother Thomas!

[@williamsanderson9279]

Thank you for making a complicated subject understandable. BTW, I enjoyed the music background behind the B-Roll in the video. It's a nice touch!

[@roadhouseguy]

Curios if this would also apply to streams which are hosted and initiated from a HomePod running Apple Music natively and then airplay to a receiver? Meaning the phone is not transmitting anything. Since the HomePods are always plugged maybe battery isn’t a consideration.

[@johnkoroglu8640]

I'm pretty sure the communication between the "parent" HomePod (that you started the ALAC 24/48 stream from) and other Homepods is still Airplay 2 (ie down graded to AAC)

[@RickRolling-tc7vb]

Thanks John, and thank you Brother Thomas. It really isn't simple, is it? I like multi-room audio, so I was delighted with Airplay 2. I was already running Shairport/Airplay 1 on a Raspberry Pi 3B+ in my lounge room, and I bought the Apple TV 4K for my televsion and stereo in my media room. However, I endured consistent and regular loss of audio from the Apple TV anytime I selected more than one endpoint, anywhere from 3 minutes to half an hour at most. Single endpoint always worked fine.The Shairport never missed a beat. I changed the TV, the amplifier, the phone, the network, all the operating systems and yet the problem persisted for over a year: it looked like the AppleTV was playing the music, but no sound came out. I wasn't alone, some on the apple forums with similar experiences, but no real solution. I found, eventually, that Mike Brady had developed shairport-sync, an Airplay 2 client, and that did the trick: with now only Airplay 2 endpoints, I have consistent multi-room audio and no more drop outs. So mixing that protocol didn't work out so well for me, your mileage may vary.

[@pjavijam]

I use an IPhone XR (Airplay 2) >> AirPort Express 2nd Gen (Airplay 2) >> Toslink cable >> Yamaha receiver digital input. The signal info in the receiver is 16b/44.100 hz not AAC lossy. I don’t understand.

[@richardshepherd1216]

TOSlink signals are not usually compressed unless sending Dolby. The Express receives compressed AAC from the phone. It then uncompresses the AAC and sends out 16/44 PCM over the TOSlink which then goes into the DAC on your receiver. It also depends on the source app. Apple Music will send AAC because it is an Airplay 2 app on an Airplay 2 device sending to an Airplay 2 receiver. Spotify will send PCM 16/44 because it is an Airplay 1 app - however as Spotify only gets compressed OGG files anyway it doesn't help. Amazon and Qobuz are also Airplay 1 apps so will send 16/44 to an Airplay 2 receiver and because they can receive 16/44 streams then the full chain is lossless. The point of all this is that the sound format may change several times in its journey to the wire coil in your speaker but you will never get better than the worst format it gets converted to along the chain.

[@Mr_Quimper]

My brain hurts.

[@dry509]

So if I have my Apple TV plugged into my audio receiver either via toslink or hdmi and I am playing music from the Apple Music app on the Apple TV I am not using airplay correct? Trying to grasp all of this…new to this world..

[@fairyball3929]

Yes, I'm not a software expert but, Airplay is used when a client device is transmitting audio in real time say from a streaming service over a network connection to the end point receiver. A Toslink, HDMI or some other direct connection from a streamer to a Hifi receiver is not the same, so Airplay isn't being used there. There's another issue with downsampling if Toslink is in use, but that's a different topic. For now, I guess my second question would be, but what about Chromecast/Casting?

[@arjungandhi1242]

The irony of the newer standard being more gimped. You'd think it would be the reverse.

[@rosswarren436]

It was a way to make people (the majority of which don't care much about sound quality) magically think they had better batteries. Well, nope.

[@Iamhungryforribeye]

So how do we actually get lossless play out of Apple Music through our speakers?

[@Jo-np7rr]

Maybe via an Apple TV as a receiver for music from the iPhone?

[@rosswarren436]

You have to stand on your head and say three Hail Marys. LOL. Seriously Apple doesn't make it easy. Oh that Steve Jobs were still here and in charge. My friend and his wife in New Jersey just said to heck with it and bought some Sonos speakers (that integrate with Apple Music well) and no longer even have a "real" stereo.

[@Filtersloth]

I plug my iPad into my integrated receiver via USB (the iPad has USB). The front panel has lights showing what kind of signal receiving from the iPad. It can even send large DSD files. It’s not wireless though.

[@Jo-np7rr]

Very interesting video! I’ve always wondered about Airplay Quality and was never really happy with it. What quality is streaming via the Apple TV music app? Then the stream should not be transmitted via airplay right? I’m thinking about getting an Apple TV just to use it as a „receiver“ because it’s equally convenient like airplay to use from the iPhone music app.

[@thetravelingkites]

That is my question as well. I too use the Apple TV app through my home system.

[@DarkoAudio]

Sorry but this video's scope is limited to iPhones and iPads.

[@thetravelingkites]

Understood. Thank you. 👍

[@Jo-np7rr]

@@DarkoAudio all good :) maybe someone from the community have information about this.

[@studiomavinil]

so apple tv video is coming up? 😇@@DarkoAudio

[@AA-dd5kn]

You measure and weight your coffee, both the grains and the water? Why? Im curious!

[@KITFLETCH1]

My iPhone has an Apple Music App setting under “Audio Quality” to allow me to choose lossless audio and “High Quality” mobile data streaming - is this misleading under Brother T’s research?

[@Rory626]

Apple could win over so many audiophiles if they just properly sorted out Apple Music lossless and made it as good as Spotify Connect

[@NeilLavitt]

So true, the issue is that audiophiles are a tiny group and are not worth catering for. It may well get done at some point, but at this time, they are catering for the bigger group.

[@d.j.vandermeer3832]

I use the button below Airplay on my iPhone or iPad, use the device as a remote. That way I can go directly to the streaming device and can even close Apple Music and the stream will continue. For automations I use the Homekit app and here this is also working.

[@chasemason5129]

John, any chance you'll get your hands on an iPhone 15 to test its USB C with various DACs?

[@DarkoAudio]

Not likely at all, sorry.

[@guystpierrecomposer]

Question: what append when the music is downloaded to the iPhone?

[@Aylward1]

This is fantastic video. So well detailed and laid out. No fluff, just the facts, engagingly presented. Love it.

[@johnheff7227]

How about iTunes ALAC on a PC? What happens when using Airplay to a receiver. No iPhone or iPad involved. Thanks in advance.

[@rosswarren436]

Good question. Think my old Denon AVR is Airplay 1 but my streamers are Airplay 2, so I too wonder what is happening when I stream out of iTunes to them.

[@matthewfrazee3352]

It seems no streaming service has everything worked out. Roon seems the logical choice if you demand to have the highest verifiable bitrate

[@Michael-xz1nk]

Hi John…On this one I say…let’s just enjoy our music, however we get it, without putting it under a microscope. Nonetheless, keep up the great work!!

[@NathanBradford]

so .. Airplay 1 > Airplay 2 for sound quality. Happy my endpoint (Hiby R3 pro saber currently) is Airplay 1 then.

[@ettorekun]

So I’m a little confused . If I want to play music from Apple Music service and having an WiiM pro, what I have to do?

[@dry509]

How do I know if I have Airplay 1 or 2? I have iPhone 13 and iPad 9 and second gen Apple TV?

[@xcalibur1011]

hey! john. when will apple finally achieve a true ALAC lossless audio codec from the i phone ? for people to appreciate listening on the Air Pods PRO 2 AND THE AIR PODS MAX 2 OR ? ON THEIR SO-CALLED APPLE MUSIC STREAMING SERVICE?

[@rosswarren436]

They are close I think, but you have to buy another piece of gaming related hardware to make it happen. Ugh. Apple isn't what they used to be when Steve Jobs was here.

[@LencoTB]

Look out for the October event

[@hiker02910]

I’m a bit confused when you said that the initiating device and app need to be network connected to maintain an Airplay 2 music stream. I can start an Apple Music stream to an Apple HomePod and then completely power down my phone and the stream continues fine. Is this not the case with non-Apple Airplay receivers?

[@rohrek]

Very interesting video thank you! Do you know if using the Apple Music app on the Apple TV wired to an amp prevents the downsampling?

[@Cypher_NZ]

I use a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 as my end point and have been trying to get Airplay 2 working. Thanks for video, will stick with Airplay 1.

[@mistermarkdavis]

I'm confused by the table showing bitrates. If I am streaming 24/48 from apple music to airplay2 is it ALAC or AAC? How Can I test it?

[@sheglova]

It seems it would make more sense if the receiver and media source supports it, to send the URL for the media steam to the receiver, then the sender just basically becomes a remote.

[@bzcup]

The delay at start and during play/pause might be a hint on what AirPlay version is used on a particular setup.

[@kevinholliday2066]

Great information mate. Question… I have AirPlay 1 hardware for sure, so I'm happy about that I guess. However, what's interesting is that when I'm streaming to the AirPort Express from my iMac, there is no 2-second play/pause delay. I use Roon and the core is on my iMac, but I basically remote control the Roon Core from my Roon app on my iPhone (if that makes sense). When I pause the music it is instant. BUT… if I play Qobuz straight from my phone to the AirPort Express, there is indeed a pause. Roon is sourcing from Qobuz, but no delay. What do you think is happening at the Roon level that enables it to not have the delay? Thanks mate.

[@mdrlz]

superb research! thanks

[@ridley68]

You do know that ALL network transmitted data is not sent continously? Ie the files are sent in "bursts" (packets) Just because the data is not sent continously does not mean it's lossy!

[@greghoughton6189]

not sure that non continuous data (pulsed) over airplay2 necessarily means it's lossy - if the rate of data transmission is high enough during the pulse then it could provide enough data to be lossless. not saying "brother Thomas" is wrong - just saying the assumption doesn't follow ... unless there is more info that hasn't been conveyed in the video.

[@DarkoAudio]

'MORE INFO IN THE DESCRIPTION BOX'

[@greghoughton6189]

@@DarkoAudio thanks for the reply , and thanks for the interesting video. I'm just skeptical by nature. whathifi saying "Apple Music’s Lossless streams supposedly convert from ALAC (Apple’s lossless codec) into AAC (Apple’s lossy codec) at a pretty lowly 256kbps when transmitted over AirPlay - and therefore not losslessly" ... doesn't really add convincing evidence.

[@rosswarren436]

@@greghoughton6189files can be captured and analyzed to determine what they are.

[@hukl3945]

Whenever I use a wireless connection to stream music or video with sound, I do not expect a lossless playback. If you're going wireless you've already chosen convenience as the primary factor. So when I really want the full experience - it's cables all the way :) Kabelsalat ist gesund! :)

[@visakapriyan]

Now that Apple is introducing Spatial Audio in Airplay 2 as part of ios18 I think it should also support lossless as Spatial Audio needs 768 kbps at least

[@bestuurdvsgroningen3603]

Good video! Lately I made quite the effort to stream lossless files to my integrated amplifier. I connected an apple tv a1469 with toslink to the amp and put all 16-24 bit 48khz (I read somewhere that 48khz 24bit is the highest an apple tv can handle but brother thomas's table seems to indicate otherwise) music in the music app on my iPhone. For a moment there I thought that all this effort has been futile but my phone shows the finch without circle when selecting the apple tv for music. I looked somewhat further into it and it seems as if this apple tv (happily) does not support airplay 2. I'm surprised at how complicated all of this is and determined not to get a newer apple tv soon.

[@steveking6506]

Start of this, i couldnt tell if it was Darko or James Hoffman!

[@radu_c]

Please put in every video a coffee making clip :D

[@ekjellgren]

That's some nice V60 action! Do you have some good local roasters in Berlin?

[@sabrowenie]

My first foray into streaming was Tidal on my iPhone 8 to an older Apple TV with optical output. The optical fed a Schiit Modi3. It’s long been replaced by an assortment of streamers the current ones being a Node and WiiM Mini. I use the same DAC on the WiiM

[@rahulkaran5265]

When is the Duetto review coming out?

[@RAMIRO61FERNANDES]

Excelente! This is what is realy helpfull! 5 stars on this review.

[@Jacknjellify531.]

awsome, plz ask brother thomas to look at the apple's lighting to 3.5mm jack too, apprantly it contains a DAC.

[@delusionaldoctor]

It’s capable of 24-bit/48kHz lossless with its built in DAC according to Apple support documentation. Its built in amp can power headphones up to 100 Ohms sufficiently with clean output. I’m not ‘brother thomas’ but this info about the adapter has been known for some time.

[@butinsho7585]

I’ve tried streaming from an iPhone to an Airplay 1 Airport Express connected to a receiver via optical cable for the purpose of getting lossless streaming from the apple music service. I quit using it because sometimes when it goes to the next track of the queue the first 1 or 2 seconds of that track are muted. It seemed like it has a delay in decoding the file resulting the track not being audible until the 1 or 2 second mark.

[@reviewlaunch]

To fix the apple AirPort try version 7.5.2 it worked for me.

[@sneakyds]

Cf. The audiophilestyle article from a couple of years ago entitled “Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay” which also goes into this in some detail from a slightly different slant