Apple Silicon has a problem (but it's not what you think)

[@thebuddercweeper]

I think the 2021 14" and 16" MacBook Pros are going to be like the 2018 iPad Pro which, to this day, isn't surpassed significantly by its successors in terms of usefulness. The one thing that will make me upgrade is if/when the 11" gets mini LED or the performance becomes outdated. Considering it's still on par with current Android phones and tablets, I think it's got another couple of years left in it performance wise.

[@usersdksdfg]

i bought my 2018 base model ipad pro used with the pencil and smart folio keyboard for 680 back in 2019 winter, but now the resell value is terrible bc of all the new ipads

[@MissionControlTet]

Uh what do you mean it’s only par with current Android devices? A12X/Z is par in performance with A15, meanwhile the fastest Android device is capped at ~3900 on Geekbench, which is somewhat par or even less than A14

[@thebuddercweeper]

@@MissionControlTet They trade blows. A12X has slightly lower single core performance but slightly higher multicore. I think the GPU in the snapdragon 8 gen 1 is more powerful though.

[@quikesteve]

I did exactly what you mentioned. I had my MacBook Pro 15" from 2015 and waited until the M1 Pro to upgrade. My sister got the MacBook Pro from 2017 and had to replace the keyboard twice thermo throttled like crazy and battery sucked. So we both got the new Pro 14" and it so so so good I am betting it will last me at least a good 5 years.

[@Roshan_420]

10 years I bought my first macbook pro in 2011, and again in 2020

[@blakryptonite1]

The overall design of the 2016-2020 15/16" MBP was amazing though. The only thing that sucked for most people was the keyboard.

[@AmazingJayB51]

5 years, I still use my 2011 MacBook Pro. It’s slow now but not terribly slow. I just can’t run to many things at the same time.

[@AmazingJayB51]

@@Roshan_420 I just stated, I still use my 2011. Works fine if I don’t open to many programs. I plan to upgrade soon, All my kids have newer Macs than me! lol

[@Roshan_420]

@@AmazingJayB51 i upgraded because it was so heavy (15 inch), battery lasted not that long even with new battery and it got so hot and loud even after replacing the pasta so I was like eh it had a good life time to get something new so I got the 16 inch intel in 2020 right before everything shut down due to corona lol if you want to upgrade, wait. The new model is right around the corner for sure

[@rg975]

The 16 inch M1 max MacBook is my first ever macOS device and I’m so impressed every time I use it. The screen, performance, sound quality, build quality, and battery are phenomenal and after owning many windows laptops, the M1 MacBook Pro is easily the best laptop I’ve ever used.

[@yenk82]

do you like macOS more than Windows 10/11 now?

[@rg975]

@@yenk82 There are pros and cons of each platform, but in my opinion on day to day use, I think macOS is more pleasant to use. My biggest issue with macOS is it’s file structure in Finder, which I think Windows absolutely nails down. Having to open up the terminal to find a specific file in macOS is quite annoying. Other than that, there are so many things macOS does better like power management, instant on, native file conversion, desktop organization, multitasking with multiple desktops/mission control, screen casting via AirPlay, just to name a few.

[@yenk82]

@@rg975 thanks for your explanation, why do you say you need to open a terminal to find a file when you can use Spotlight? I think Windows is better than macOS only on the windows management (you can resize and adjust the windows on the screen very easily, you have more options), for the rest I consider macOS superior, especially for the User Interface

[@ChristopherBurtraw]

@@rg975 I hate this about MacOS too. Add a shortcut to your root drive or at least your personal folder (which has desktop, docs, photos etc). Another thing I hate is that it doesn't have the snap feature. But BetterSnapTool costs a whopping few bucks and adds the biggest missing feature - I've always hated how MacOS handles program windows, it seems so random to me.

[@Weird_Quests]

@@ChristopherBurtraw You could also try Rectangle - it's open source and free, has snapping and shortcuts for snapping to pre-sized grids.

[@adnamamedia]

I would honestly love to see an Apple silicon version if the 12" 2015 Retina Macbook! That thing felt impossibly thin and even though it was way underpowered with the Intel chip, the people that bought them and weren't power users loved them! It felt so ahead of its time, and I believe Apple could do it with a super power efficient base M3.

[@andrewvanderhoof2531]

I LOVED my 12 inch MacBook! It would be amazing if they brought it back with the new Apple chips.

[@Zhinix04]

agreed. that machine with an M1/M2, MagSafe or 2 usb ports and a decent keyboard would be fantastic. (it's downfall wasn't that it was underpowered, it was the keyboard and only 1 port for everything)

[@spacecadet2172]

Agree 100%. That chassis was MADE for Apple silicon

[@manaphyex]

Previously, I wanted to upgrade my laptop after every purchase for just one year. But this time, because of Apple Slicon, I don't have to think about it at least 5 years, so my wallet feels so good.

[@Piketom1]

Same here. That's exactly why I spent more on a higher end version of the 14" MacBook pro as well. If it is going to last a long time, then having more system member and storage felt like worthwhile upgrades.

[@fVNzO]

Assuming those were apple machines, that doesn't make any sense. The intel macs barely changed from like haswell to coffee lake. Yes they eventually gave them more cores and vega graphics but still. Not even close to warrant upgrades every year, like what were you doing bro.

[@Piketom1]

@@fVNzO The graphics architecture changed more dramatically year over year when apple was using AMD graphics cards. Depending on what you were doing, upgrading whenever those were refreshed might make sense.

[@fVNzO]

@@Piketom1 if you life depended on them maybe, which would probably be 1000$ down the drain a year. And at that point you should seriously consider getting another type of portable workstation. Either my man is lying or is just addicted to apple commercials and have a deep pocket. And also I wouldn't really aggree on the gpu front. Outside of node changes GCN didn't change too much at all. The vast majority of performance gains in the graphics came from perf/watt and clock speed. Very little, if any came from ipc which has been documented fairly extensively at this point.

[@terribletimes902]

And I thought upgrading your phone every year was excessive, holy crap

[@mattobambino]

Got my 16” coming in next week. Every new max release I kept telling myself I’ll keep waiting to upgrade and once the m1 air came out I knew the pro would soon get refreshed. Even after it’s release I told myself to wait til this summer to at least get an extra promotion for back to school students. Can’t wait to experience the jump from a 2012 MBP.

[@andycress]

I went from 2010 MBP to M1 MBA and GOOD GOD is it night and day difference. You're gonna love having a fast, responsive computer again. (I had maxed my MBP on a whopping 8GB of RAM, new battery, SSD to boot, swapped SuperDrive for a hybrid HDD/SSD and it was better than I got it, but also 11 years old when I replaced it.)

[@Piketom1]

I have had my 14" MacBook pro for about 6 months and it is seriously the best laptop I have ever used. It's like having two computers in one. It's a very fast and very capable desktop replacement but it's also nearly as portable as a MacBook air and gets fantastic battery life. I have the Apple care service plan for my computer and will probably replace it when that expires regardless of whether or not I need a new computer.

[@surplusvalues]

Can I ask how much RAM you went with?

[@joeabouhamad6202]

Is it the base model? Do you think it’s enough for graphic design work?

[@joeabouhamad6202]

How’s it’s screen durability? I’ve heard that they’re very fragile, i can’t afford a repair due to the lack of apple care in my country

[@ooc12001]

who asked

[@Piketom1]

@@surplusvalues I have the M1 pro with 16GB ram, 1TB ssd, 10C CPU, 16C GPU.

[@HenrikoMagnifico]

I would also consider another issue: Lack of support for universal standards, such as the Vulkan graphics API.

[@saileshrachapudi8486]

Vulkan Graphics is not as good as Metal, please do some research before commenting and Apple always supported Universal standards, Asahi Linux proves that and universal is not always good

[@RealJoseph123]

@@saileshrachapudi8486 lol what

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@saileshrachapudi8486 That mentality is honestly laughable. Vulkan is much more open than Apple's proprietary Metal. Asahi Linux is not ready yet because Apple won't lift a finger to help the team make it better, and a small team relying on donations can only make so much progress. I would absolutely use Asahi Linux if it was even 90% capable as macOS.

[@mys31f70]

and about Asahi Linux, bruh it's just because Apple likes to use their own shit and not help anyone else at all in this case, do more research.

[@cameronbosch1213]

@@mys31f70 Exactly.

[@BullyParkerMaguire]

I have held out for over 9 years with my early 2013 15” retina MacBook Pro, because of how much worse the touch bar Pros looked. I just bought a new speked out 16 inch for $3500 because of how well-earned it was for me!

[@user_ao625]

Apple will disable features with newer OS updates which they'll call bugs, or apple will not allow M1 to get major OS upgrades after 3 or 4 years and say they can't handle the upgrades as a reason.

[@patricksantos4199]

The removal of the notch will get people to buy a new model. A minimal performance bump won't even matter 😉

[@wossaaaat]

I went from an early-2009 17" mbp to this 16" maxed out m1 max. And yes, I'm hoping I can hold on to this for about as long. It is a great machine. Very few complaints.

[@2egenjerry]

I had one of those but I’m a chump, I can’t keep a device that stops getting major updates 🥲

[@wossaaaat]

@@2egenjerry Lack of updates was a bit annoying, but I'm not a power user. I just didn't want to go down in screen size, and that 17" was such a war horse, it was so reliable despite the abuse I put it through. Was a little sad to see it go really, but the ssd was knackered and this m1 is definitely a very worthy successor.

[@utubekullanicisi]

With iPhones and iPads what you do on them doesn't need that much faster performance anymore since the range of things you can and want to do on such small interfaces has kind of peaked or at least is advancing more slowly compared to on the Mac, but Macs still need more performance, even a Mac Studio with M1 Ultra (if not *especially* M1 Ultra, as those who buy that highest-end Apple Silicon chip are those who probably need as much performance as they can get with current technology in their personal workstation, as opposed to those whose tasks couldn't be run as smoothly as they need on an M1 Max so they needed to upgrade to the Ultra and thus the Ultra just happens to be the only one in the lineup that perfectly suits their needs. Heck even on a system with a 64-core Threadripper and 4 RTX 3090 Ti's or something like that, you can still find tasks that will take it hours if not days to complete, or tasks that will either not run at all or take an unrealistic/impractical amount of time on it so people will have to resort to straight up supercomputers. And as that performance ceiling goes up and up, your average maybe not Joe, but certainly tech enthusiast will want to do more and more on their Mac). And as a side note, I would definitely upgrade from an M1 14/16" MacBook Pro to a new one, if one day Apple updated it with an LTPO OLED screen that could go down to 1-10Hz and up to 120Hz (or higher) and one that could go as bright and color accurate as at least the iPhone 13 Pro's screen, and one that is as durable as the OLED iPhone screens of the past 5 years. And a lot of people would upgrade if Apple managed to add 5G to their MacBooks as well. So it's not like there's literally nothing left to upgrade.

[@TJCCBR47]

Or if they remove the notch... DELL XPS have much better bezels.

[@speedzero7478]

At my company's IT department, we give the staff M1 Macbook Air and people doing engineering work get either 14 inch or 16 inch Macbook Pros. For general purpose needs (spreadsheets, emails, CRM software), the Air is incredible. Its nothing like the Air seven years ago, where it would overheat just doing casual web browsing.

[@sabinoiicatcha8170]

My co-workers are amazed every time I launch Windows 11 via Parallels and just constantly switches between two OSes like an app. I have been using my M1 machine with both MacOS and Windows since 2021 - I use the former for most creative tasks. the latter for .NET software development, and both systems share equally other tasks on my day-to-day use. For a country where majority of our systems and software are Windows-based, this machine truly blows any mind seeing a 13 inch machine with 2 operating systems seamlessly working with each other. NOPE I can't just choose one from the other, I need both OSes.

[@PepsiMan42069]

The main reason I chose the M1 pro over the M2 was the fact that I'll probably use it for a good 5-7 years, provided it doesn't become painfully obsolete that quick

[@mattalki]

I've had my Mac Studio since launch day, and it's been the best computer I've ever had. I'm currently using it with my 30" ACD, and it just flies. I'm probably not going to upgrade it for 5-7 years at least. Wonderful products!

[@jakreu]

My 14" MB Pro is hands down the best laptop I've ever used, and I'm willing to bet it will last me years and years and years. The silence, the quality, the power and the 120hz mini LED is really what sets it apart from all the other Apple Silicon products and also from other laptops. And the sound is great for such a small device. If you're interested, my spec is the binned M1 Max with 32 GB of RAM and 1 TB of storage. But really, you can't even go wrong with the base model. They are so powerful.

[@Sean_R_Coombs]

That’s an interesting point. I totally agree. I can’t imagine performance getting better than my M1 pro in the next couple of years. I almost feel like it doesn’t matter all that much. Here’s why: the Ecosystem. I’d have to imagine that a company like Apple has research to suggest that MacBook owners not only keep their laptops for 5+ years, but also that they are more likely than not to own other Apple devices/products. You could argue that the Mac becomes the anchor product, retaining long-term users and pulling new users into the ecosystem. Meanwhile, those users are purchasing multiple generations of iPhone (which coincidentally cost nearly as much as a new MacBook Air), apple watches, air pods, and more. Before they eventually upgrade their laptop in 5+years. I have to think Apple knows this.

[@Zebra_Paw]

They may rely on the death of your SSD, with the firmware on it! Or they rely on another common fault! I know they don't but they keep having engineering failures!

[@Sean_R_Coombs]

@@Zebra_Paw That’s fair. Some level of “planned obsolescence” is not unheard of either. Either reducing performance to save battery life, or simply not supporting new software features on “legacy” models.

[@Zebra_Paw]

@@Sean_R_Coombs Yeah, except 2007, every Mac that was left at El Capitan could have ran High Sierra bug free. For most of them, you just throw High Sierra and disable platform check, everything gets supported out of the box! Then my 2012 13" Unibody which I absolutely love because it's one of the best MacBooks ever made, was dropped after Catalina, which was again unnecessary! But it's clear Apple is trying to burry Intel Macs as fast as they can, by the time Mojave came out, they already knew which way the Mac would go and dropped everything Non Metal, screwing up patches/hacks quite a lot! Now Ventura will come out. I have a 2016 MacBook Pro (which I never bought my mother had it then it died, and by the time I fixed the logic board she already bought a nice PC I chose for her) which was bought in 2017, and Ventura will drop it, that's 5 years of support. However, I got a Dell Inspiron 1520 from 2007 to which I gave a few upgrades, runs Windows 11 flawlessly with no bugs or compromises, I installed all the drivers, and it can play Minecraft Bedwars at a consistent 150 FPS without sacrificing game look, which is not too far behind my gaming PC with a Ryzen 7 3750H and a GTX 1660 Ti 😱😱😱 This laptop is a total beast and judging by what Macs will probably still be supported in 2027, I think this laptop will once be 20 years old and still perfectly usable!

[@mikenyr4life491]

I really want a 27" M something Imac, but now that I have pretty much given up hope on ever getting that. A refurb Mac Studio or 14" Macbook Pro and an Apple 27" Display are starting to look like my best options

[@DavidRavenMoon]

An M1 MacMini is pretty much the same as the M1 iMac on the inside.

[@mikenyr4life491]

@@DavidRavenMoon Yes, but I was hoping for a more Pro 27" then the 24" M1 imac we got

[@TimurTripp2]

The issue with the 27" (and earlier 24") iMacs was that the screen was so good and ahead of its time, the computer would become obsolete much faster with the screen still being decent even 10 years later. It just seemed wasteful. I'm facing this now with my 27" Late 2015 iMac, the 5K screen is still gorgeous by modern standards but the older Intel guts, even while being one of the highest-end configurations available at the time, are starting to show their age and there isn't a way to use it as an external screen with my newer and more powerful MacBook Pro. For this reason going with a separate computer and screen seems like the better option. For a while Apple didn't have a decent afforable-ish external screen but now does.

[@mikenyr4life491]

@@TimurTripp2 I don't completely disagree, my 2017 27" iMac display is still better than most newer displays out there, and disappointed that I need to open it up and modify it to make a working monitor out of it. I would still like a 27 M something imac since just getting a 27" display is almost the price of getting an iMac alone. Think of it like the new Samsung Smart Monitor that also acts as a Smart TV with apps and what not.

[@michaelthomas1726]

Agreed! I have the M1 MacBook Air and I can't see wanting to upgrade it for some time. Despite its older design language, I absolutely love how well it works with power to spare.

[@buuckley6803]

Very true. I think Apple silicon pushed the Mac into the stratosphere and following the M1 was going to be difficult. Could be why there is so much push back on M2 (some deserved). Either way, it's a great time to be upgrading to a new Mac!

[@stonersiren]

the way he patted the lil macbook air's head at around 3 minutes has me dyingg lmao why do i find that so funny

[@gabsauvage]

There is, in fact, one area that would benefit more power. It's running music production at 32/16 buffer range (removing any sort of latency entirely). Right now you get like 5/6 tracks with VSTs top before the machine goes crazy.

[@chepulis]

Finally. I've been holding my 2015 Retina for seven years. And finally, Apple got it right. And I'm on board.

[@chepulis]

(genuinly upgraded Mid 2015 → 16" M1 Max)

[@JAISSTEUER]

I recently went to the M1 Pro 16” from the Mid-2012 Unibodies around Xmas 2023 and at the time; M1, M2 and M3 were out. Some of the main reasons I went for the M1 Pro is because of the amount of performance cores relative to efficiency cores and the price that you can get these at! I got mine with a decent battery and very low ssd wear which is simply amazing in 2024!

[@bartonlynch]

Count me as another one of your stats, I just replaced my trusty 2012 unibody 13" that gave me solid years of reliability (it would've been 10 years next month!), for a 14" M1 Pro near maxed out. The reasons? I never saw much improvement with the early 13" unibody Retina MBPs besides the pretty screen, and I absolutely loathed the Touch Bar generation for many negative reasons, up until now when it finally made sense to upgrade.

[@goetkemj]

My first Mac was a 2011 13" i7 Macbook Pro. Because I was able to upgrade basically EVERYTHING in it, I didn't need to replace it until I bought the 24" M1 iMac last year. And because the M1 itself is so good, I don't see myself upgrading this computer for another 8-10 years.

[@watercannonscollaboration2281]

I remember when the M1 first launched, I thought “this is really good , how are they going to follow this up?”

[@franckdiboues1201]

I upgraded in 2021 a MBP 15’’ 2008 unibody for a MBP 14’’ 2021. I used the 15’’ for 13 years and it’s still usable except for the browser which cannot be upgraded anymore.

[@darensamuels5208]

We always find use cases that use the capability of computers…eventually. I remember when an Intel 486 DX2-66 was “all I will ever need”. These M-Series Macs will provide consumers the ability to do all sorts of new stuff that will eventually use up the capacity. Apple hardware does last a very long time, but I think the replacement cycle and the hand-me-down process will continue as it always does. Apple will profit by releasing the best computers they can make and offering durability and great user experience. Plus, a lot of notebook computers die from damage anyway. I think Apple will be fine.

[@spencergibson853]

I had thought this before but when you move up those MacBooks like that it makes me think that the new MacBook Air was infact a MacBook pro replacement (I think in some taredowns there is even space for the fan. Sure you need air intakes but replace that bottom plate with a slightly curved design with vents and an outlet and voila MacBook Pro 13inch. As they said the MacBook Pro was their second best selling Mac. Maybe Tim saw the figures and decided the best selling MacBook should be updated first.

[@tanpuppy24]

Honestly I’ve always wondered too why they didn’t make the current M2 Air the new 13” pro (name wise and with the fans of course) and use those pastel colors that were rumored for the M2 air at least to differentiate the M2 air and M2 13” pro from each other. I hope that makes sense.

[@rhoderzau]

Honestly I struggle to see many tweaks they could make...most of them are a case of "I guess that would be nice" or relies on technology leaps to make things smaller. - Face ID (assuming they can make it thin enough) - HDMI 2.1 - Faster SD card reader - 4K camera (assuming tech for such thin 4K cameras come out) - Lighter and possibly thinner due to being more energy efficient and thus needing less batteries, or a new battery technology - Touch screen - Even higher refresh rate - Cellular

[@InfamousAmanda]

I have always been a diehard Windows fan, but the compromises are too big to ignore. I had a mid-tier Chromebook from Acer (Spin 713) and it was the closest I've been to my dream laptop using something that was Apple. I finally decided to purchase a refurbished M1 Macbook Air, and I have to say it was the best decision I could've made. The battery life alone is CRAZY. I love how click-y the keyboard feels, the size of the trackpad and that fact that it doesn't have a loud fan to annoy my peers... perfection. I considered buying the new M2 Macbook Air but I couldn't see myself spending $1200 + tax on the base model - I bought my refurbished M1 for $776 after tax! Plus the key travel was not very good, there's no way I would've been able to use the keyboard to write papers - it was almost mushy to me. I am not a crazy apple lover by any means , I would've kept my Spin 713 if the software was compatible with the work I have to do + it was lighter. Anything over 3 lbs is too much for me to justify carrying everywhere. Bottom-line: get a device with the silicon chip and you will not be disappointed!

[@originalscreenname44]

Luke is on point for how long most people have waited to upgrade to M1. I went from a late-2011 13” Pro I’ve had for 10 years now to a 14” Pro on day one. I’m not sure if I’ll get 10 years like the last one since the old MacBooks could replace memory and storage (which I basically maxed out), but I don’t see needing to upgrade for at least 5 years.

[@bottomburp]

I upgraded to a 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro, from a 17" MacBook Pro 2009 model, and I absolutely love it, but I have a nasty feeling my M1 Max won't last me 13 years like my 2009 model, but I could very well be wrong, but I think Apple will discontinue it quicker in order to make me upgrade quicker this time around.

[@neilquinn]

I have a feeling I'll have no need to upgrade my 16" M1 Max (32gb/1tb/24 core igpu) for a LONG time. Maybe 10yrs even unless I just want something new and shiny. I mean what is it really missing? More cores? Meh. OLED? Nah, mini-LED is fine. In the future I'd like wi-fi 7 for a better connection, and maybe an eSim for cellular, but that's about it. Or of course if they can make it lighter weight /thinner without making it hotter or run the fans more via better lithography. Maybe sometime when 2nm stuff comes out we can get away with thinner/lighter. I would have bought a 15" macbook if it existed when I bought. Just wanted a bigger screen.

[@veez.]

I think tho that Apple realised last year’s M1 Air was too good, so made sure to introduce issues with the 256GB SSD and thermal throttling in the M2 Air to encourage upselling.

[@ubbeats98]

I own the M1 MacBook Air base model… M1 really changed the game. I was expecting more from the M2! Maybe M4 will get me to upgrade ?

[@andrewlau2939]

Hey @Luke Miani, maybe do a video discussing if the Air should still be considered "entry level" and if we've reached the peak of the Air's marketing intent of being "the average user's mac". When you think about it, the M1 jumped so far that people are not finding significant reasons to get the M2 (base price and base SSD issue aside). To add, the M1 is such a great chip that it answers most of the everyday user's needs-- snappy software response, long battery life, premium built body, etc. I think we may be at a point where any processor improvement will be barely noticeable. So i guess the question is "What's next for the Air?" The way I see it, the M2 addressed what the M1 was missing-- graphics power, but we all know that any further chip power improvement will land us in the 14 and 16 realm. So, what's next for the Air?

[@lazerbeam3928]

A thought-provoking video. I have the M1 Air (16Gb/512Gb SSD) that I bought several months before the M2 Air was announced. To be honest, at the time M2 Air (base model SSD and thermal throttling issue aside and unknown) was announced, I would have been hard pressed to buy it. I could easily afford it with the same upgrades as the M1 Air I bought but I could not find enough incremental performance differences to justify the additional cost. Having money is one thing, spending it wisely is another. Apple products, aside from some of the faux pax they make from time to time, are top quality and have life expectancy that generally exceeds their competitive counterparts. I doubt that I'll consider upgrading the M1 Air until an M3 or M4 Air becomes available. In the meantime, I still have a 2012 Mac Mini that I'll probable retire when a new Mac Mini is announced. If a new Mac Mini is not quite what I want, I'll probably go for the current Studio. I'm still wonder what to do with my 2017 iMac 27" model. Right now, it's more a dust collector than anything.

[@jaypalmer3806]

Thermal throttling isn’t an issue, it’s a necessity. All CPU’s do it, they have to so the processor doesn’t overheat……I don’t understand why some people think thermal throttling is new and is an ‘issue’ on the Air 2.

[@JeadilsonBezerra]

Currently a MBP m1 owner and I’m very satisfied with the performance. My workflow is simple and light. The only time I saw the Mac beach ball was due an third party app malfunction. If Apple releases an MacBook Air 16” even with an 2019 notchless screen I’ll be very inclined to upgrade just because the larger screen. Beside a that there’s no need right now.

[@disklamer]

I bought a brand new alluminan MBP 15 in 2008. It tool me seven years to run it into the ground. The (used) replacement from 2011 (SSD FTW) might just get replaced with an M2 this year. My significant other machines - 17"MBP - never died, due to much better treatment, despite each being over a decade old. Alas C2Ds don't cut it anymore because websites, but the i5s are hanging in there still. And unfortunately there is no more 17"...TLDR, as a cheap person, Apple laptops have been quite worth it for me, with a useable life of about a decade.

[@DavidRavenMoon]

Most Mac users get around 10 years out if their Macs. It’s always been that way. I got my first Mac, a PowerMac 6100/Performa 6115, in 1994. Since then I’ve had five Macs; a PowerComputing PowerCenter 132, G4 Digital Audio, G4 MDD, Early 2009 24” iMac, and currently a 2015 21” 4K iMac. Every Mac except the 6100 and PowerComputing clone have been used or refurbished. I bought the 2009 iMac in 2011. That’s the upgrade cycle for a lot of people. They like new Macs and can afford a new one every two years. Since my current iMac is stuck on macOS 12, my next Mac will probably be a used M1 or M2 in a couple of years.

[@JackieDElia]

Completely agree. I’m upgrading my Mac now and will keep it for 5-6 years, especially now that you can keep AppleCare+ indefinitely via the annual plan. My iPad is the 12.9 (Gen 3) from 2019 and I see no need to upgrade. I use the iPad only for consuming content.

[@MarbsMusic]

I just switched back after the M1 Air came out and upgraded last year to a M1 Pro 16" because I wanted a larger screen... but aside from some crazy GPU upgrade this laptop feels like it could last for years. Indeed it is like the iPhone, the years I was on Android I upgraded yearly... sometimes sooner but I've had my 12 Pro Max since release and I really haven't seen any reason yet to get a 14, I'll probably wait another year. It is a good problem for us, my hope is that Apple hits us with something unexpected as a reason to upgrade but not really seeing anything on the phone or laptop front at the moment either...

[@sammyjammy6647]

And how long do you think the M1 air will last

[@MarbsMusic]

@@sammyjammy6647 depends on what you want to do with it, if you are playing games or doing a lot of coding I think it could got 4 or 5 years. In some ways I miss my Air just because I felt like I could throw it in a slipcase and take it everywhere. We just got a 14” base for my oldest in College and it a great balance.

[@RobStevens64]

Was hoping the new M2 Air would be great. But I’m seriously thinking of … sidegrading? … to a 16” M1 Pro. I traded a 16” Intel Pro for my 13” M1 Air to get something that wouldn’t sound like like a jet engine. But it sounds like the fan noise on the new 16” isn’t bad for normal usage, so I can probably go back. And those new screens look nice.

[@sharikmarius]

I came from the 2015 13” i7 MacBook Pro. Once the rumors of the Apple Silicone 14” Pro started circulating, I knew I was going hold out. So glad I did. Awesome machine!

[@NJ2010100]

Apple did such a good job with the MacBook Air with Apple Silicon chips I had to buy one too. (I am a Windows user exclusively, until last week) Apple computers with Intel chips were underperforming while having technical issues at premium prices, so I was critical. It's been a week since I purchased my MacBook Air and I love it. Nice thin and light device with smooth performance, great build quality, and great speakers and display for its size class. Battery life is insane.

[@VladimirBulgaru]

Personally, I feel like the M2 Air is an indication that Apple is reverting to the old ways and it's not good. Let me explain. I used to upgrade my Mac on every release. This is not because I am spoiled or fanboy-ing. I treat Macs as work tools and I prefer to sell them after 1-1.5 years and treat the difference between sale and purchase cost as a "rent cost" of the equipment. And this is where M2 Air comes into the picture. Let's be honest - M2 is the overclocked M1. They threw 2 extra GPU cores to the unbinned version and added the media encoders to mask this aspect, but if you were to compare 8 GPU M1 and 8 GPU M2, the difference would be minimal - like with all overclocked CPUs without a proper cooling , the overclocked version offers better performance during the first minutes and starts to throttle, as opposed to non-overclocked version, which has a more sustainable performance curve. Was it hard to design a better cooling for M2 Air and sacrifice 2-3% in weight reduction? Would it hurt to use 2 NAND chips instead of 1 on the base model? I think that Apple was purposefully handicapping the base M2 MacBooks in order to push the creators towards the $1.5k price range or even towards the 14" Pro. This makes perfect financial sense, but begs the question - why would you create a killer CPU and then try to make it worse through packaging? Another hypothesis I have - when the lineup was M1 Air, 13" M1 Pro, 14" M1 Pro - the choice was obvious - M1 Air, since you'd get roughly 80-90% of performance at 50% cost (when comparing M1 Air with 14" M1 Pro). They needed to foreshadow the M1 Air by artificially making it obsolete with introduction of M2 Air, and when you contrast the shitty base M2 Air at $1.2k with $1.8-1.9 discounted 14" M1 Pro, you have to either opt for at least $1.4k M2 Air with 16GB RAM or 512GB SSD or go straight to 14" M1 Pro. Anyway... I'm not sure that Apple will "keep the crown". For now, while M1 Air still exists, it's a perfect gateway for people to get into the Apple laptops ecosystem. If they decide to handicap their products like they did with M2 launch - I'm not so sure.

[@andyH_England]

Apple keeping the M1 Air proves that they were not doing anything bad, just a victim of circumstances and moving towards multi-layer NAND. By keeping the M1 they have given those that cannot justify the new price another option that is cheaper. You do not do that if you are ripping consumers off. Dell did the same, with the XPS 13 Plus, they kept the older design as people may have been put off by the large price increase in high-inflation times.

[@chrikkos]

I have been using my 15“ MacBook Pro from 2012 and thought it would die one day but it didn’t, so I used it until last year when I upgraded to a 14“ MacBook M1Pro. I am super happy with it doing all kinds of stuff like audio and video editing etc. Don’t think I‘ll upgrade before the next five or seven years if there is no technical issue coming up. Great machine!

[@TheVoiceofReason4ya]

I think you hit the nail on the head Luke. My base 16” M1 Pro will be great for many years to come. Mere spec bumps like m2 pro/max won’t do a thing for me. I get everything I need and better IMHO than in a “max” config with better battery, less fan ramp ups, adequate power etc.

[@spacecadet2172]

I want wifi 6E because the 6GHz band is not so congested

[@torsten23]

Bought a (non retina) MacBook Pro in 2012 and skipped all the crappy devices. Now 10 years later I bought the 14“ and I am very happy and it may last another 10 years.

[@alfonsovelasquez4411]

Just upgraded y 2014 MacBook 13 inch to 16 inch MacBook Pro M1 Max. Still waiting for a month to get. Can't wait to start to work on it!!!

[@thisisretropete]

Still using a MacBook 2015 2.9ghz, it’s only now I’ve been tempted to upgrade and your right Luke. I’m torn to either upgrade to 1tb and a new battery on my current model or the MacBook Air!

[@johnprivate6625]

Better cooling for the m2, m3 will be entirely possible, thus improving performance gains even with minimal chip improvements. Improving thermals will also improve battery lifespan, and battery life.

[@perge_music]

I've still a 2016 MBP that's OK for general work, yes it's a bit slow. I'll get an M1 Pro later in the year. But if I sit on that for 6 years again then that's no worse than what I was doing before they switched to Arm. I want to upgrade my Mac Pro first, it's looking like the M1U Studio will be decent enough for what I run in the studio

[@BenjaminRoethig]

It's not just the Macs, it's Icestorm/ Firestorm and Avalanche/Blizzard products in general. At almost two years, my iPhone 12 pro max feels brand new. Apple gave me every I want and I'm happy.

[@MikeVlcek]

The easiest way to force people to upgrade is to cut support for future OS versions, for instance. I am assuming the M1 will be kicked out in no longer than 5 years, even if it will still be perfectly capable of running the latest OS. Mark my words.

[@andyH_England]

...like all Android phones, if you are lucky, some costingh more than the Air! I think Apple is the best at updates and you may just want to hit on Apple. Google only fo three years on their £1000 Pixel 6 Pro. Maybe you should be upset with them?

[@MikeVlcek]

@@andyH_England Who's upset? I use an iPhone, a mac and an iPad. I'm just stating a fact. Apple makes perfectly capable hardware obsolete for the sake of it. And I wasn't talking about phones, I was talking about full blown computers. Calm down, mate. Cheers.

[@andyH_England]

@@MikeVlcek No idea what computers Apple are making obsolete? But whatever you say!

[@seanzappulla71]

I went from a 2016 MacBook Pro 15' fully spec to a Mac studio 32 core with 64 GB of ram with 2TB SSD. I was going to go for a MacBook Pro 16" with the same build that I got in the Mac Studio.

[@alicante275]

Going from the classic, upgradeable 15-inch 2012 MBP to the 2022 MBA M2 Midnight :) Did not take Luke's advice of going for the 14-inch or 16-inch even though I upgraded to 24 GB RAM and 1 TB because I wanted some future-proofing and a fanless design - no fan noise or moving parts, less sucking in of pet hair too. Should last 5-7 years. Considered starlight given the contrast with the keyboard, but folded for midnight despite the cleaning hassle...I can still cancel and reorder something else if you guys think I should!

[@jimboblivesforever]

Fair points, Luke. However, OS development doesn't stop, and knowing apple, the OS from 2026 or 2027 will demand more oomph. Also, whenever the Windows world catches up on the ARM front, Apple will have to compete, wether people actually need the power or not. So yes, I agree that, for the next few years, people will not really need to upgrade. At some point, they will want to though.

[@guyjordan8201]

You’re right about workflows not changing. It’s only compatibility with others in the industry that’s driving upgrades and while we are on the cusp, with some software updates and certainly with OS changes, we haven’t crossed that line yet. I just replaced batteries and thermal paste in our 2 2015 MBPros to keep them thriving because the 16” M1 is the right replacement but so pricey. Apple has upped their game on planned obsolescence, that is how they will fix their “problem”.

[@johnjurmu5669]

Still Rocking my Late 2013 15" Macbook Pro. Just replaced the battery and the computer still does everything I need to do. I'm just going to use this thing until it dies then just splurge on a top of the line Macbook Pro again. Definitely got my moneys worth.

[@JohnChrom]

i bought my first mac a four months ago. This is the best computer I have ever used. And I'm sure that base 14 mac will last me for many years. It covers absolutely all my needs and at the same time works incredibly fast.

[@vor_ben]

Software and softwareupgrades will become the big for Apple in the next few years. I bet that more subscriptions-based software updates for newer features will become the norm (outside security updates).

[@FranckWolf]

On the used laptop market, the most valuable products were the mid-2012 unibody and the mid 2015 retina macbooks. Both the lastest models of their generation, and both still sold on the Apple store after the next gen came out. I think it wont be the case with the touchbar generation (at least not for me, definitely gonna skip them). We’ll have to wait at least 4-5 years, till the next redesign, to know which model of the current generation will be the most wanted. Imho the M1 air is in a good position…(first silicon laptop, but last model with its design, excellent price/perf ratio and as of today, still sold by Apple alongside the new gen.)

[@lfroncek]

I bought an M1 Macbook Air last year simply because I need a laptop I can use when I'm out of town that didn't come pre-installed with all kinds of crappy bloatware. Apple could probably get a bunch of consumers to switch on that premise alone.

[@cameronbosch1213]

Linux literally has almost no bloatware, and nearly everything in it can be removed. Also, some Windows business laptops also come with no bloatware minus control software like Lenovo Vantage and Razer Synapse.

[@Pokapix]

I'm missing the angle of new mac users on the platform, I believe that's Apple goal with their SOC instead of getting current users to replace gear within x years lifespan. Ever since the M series launched, I've experienced changes with large companies I work with, as well other freelance designer, developers and consultants - they suddenly are going MAC instead of a windows replacement machine. Especially developers which have been hardcore non mac focused are enjoying the bliss of 8gb's M1 Air. I've advised countless of contacts replacing their Lenovo's and other brands to an Air and Pro solution, and I don't expect this to stop with the future of Apple's SOC. And lastly, Apple finally put some real focus on gaming, so I'm excited how this pays off on how this could also start getting others to join the platform, who have been resilient with the gaming part of the Mac idea. Anyways, liked the piece overall, just missed the focus the current Apple strategy might be rather getting new users on the platform and grow a broader global market - which is maybe the better way to go for us as consumers as well Apple's bottom line :) Keep up the good work

[@roguewavecreative]

I think another thing to look at if you have a mention this is that I think in the past with Intel we were always chasing the next model that hopefully wouldn’t burn the hole in our legs or just throttle like crazy and with these M series chips are so efficient and also from in a processing for workflows forget the benchmarks they’re just really good like I mentioned here before I use an M1 MacBook Air with Adobe creative cloud in Final Cut Pro and it is awesome I’d eventually maybe like to get a MacBook Pro but I’m not even sure right now that it’s necessary

[@dr.mahera9284]

You are right people who got one of these…usually dont need to upgrade..but there are gaps in the lineup…Apple needs to have a mainstream laptop for students with at least 8 hours of battery and one that does not throttle..the MacBook Pro 14 & 16 I think are strictly for video editors and therefore pricey and overkill for other folks…the Air is for the corporate users who travel and need to respond to e-mails or work on powerpoint presentations..not really designed for intensive work… The MacBook Pro 13 would be perfect for what I envision as a mainstream laptop…but it is stuck in that old chassis…if only Apple upgraded it to the new design and gave it the color options of the M2 MacBook Air…it would bring in a lot Dell XPS 13 users to the Apple ecosystem..

[@jacobmiller38]

I’ve got the M1 Air 16GB ram in January, I basically laughed when the M2 came out because the M1 handles my programming tasks without any problems and runs photoshop better than my 2020 iMac with 48gb of ram. Why pay $200 more for a slightly brighter screen (mine is only around half brightness anyway), a different design, a slightly better processor, and MagSafe?

[@milkedition]

They always think of something. Adding the pro media encoders to the M2 for example. That alone made an upgrade from an M1 to the M2 Air highly desirable for me.

[@steveedina]

I bought two M1 Mac mini’s, one for my home office, one for work. There is no compelling reason to upgrade. They work great for coding apps, and I don’t need a faster Mac. Bought an M1 MacBook Air too and still using it. Works great and I’m not going to upgrade it yet either.

[@SGOS_Band]

2015 Retina MacBook Pro... finally I made the move to a 16" Max that's capped (outside of the HD)

[@paolozago6123]

It might be a problem for Apple, but it's also a sign that their product used to be very good: my late 2013 13.3 retina MBP is still perfectly usable today, it still has the best keyboard, trackpad and I'd say overall even display compared to most Windows laptops I've used including expensive stuff from HP and Dell. Sure it would be great to be able to afford a 3 years turnover, but let's face it: mac is expensive, AND is good. So many people buy it and keep it until they can. Or they sell it after a couple of years when the value is still good, but that's another story :D

[@danny_the_K]

I bought the 16” MBP base model just after Christmas as a return at MicroCenter… While I would like to have more memory, I don’t really need it. I’m very happy… I had waited for the 15” MBAir, but gave up and took the 16”MBP, and I’m glad I did.

[@CharlPantaleon]

I bought the 16" MacBook Pro with the M1 Pro. I wanted to get one with 32GB RAM, but the wait times were too long for me, so I cancelled my order and bought the model with 16GB RAM. It was worth it. I didn't need 32GB, and I won't need it for a while. Sure, it sucks seeing my memory pressure going from 60-75% most of the time under load with Lightroom Classic. But I turned off GPU acceleration, and it didn't affect performance in a meaningful way for me, and it really helped keeping memory pressure in check. It's a great computer, does everything I need for photo / video editing, and light gaming. The best thing about it is the display. That's the only reason I wanted the 2021 MacBook Pros. The displays are absolutely amazing - colour accuracy is good, and it's just so sharp, vibrant, and bright. The battery life is insane, too - a full working day with light tasks without needing a charge, and heavy work for 5 hours. The speakers are phenomenal. Even as an audiophile, I find myself actively wanting to listen on the speakers instead of my headphones / IEMs at times. I'm slightly worried about the future MacBook Pros, because with the M2 Air, they've allowed the computer to overheat and thermal throttle more severely vs the M1 Air. I hope they do not do that to the MacBook Pros. Keep the energy efficiency, quiet performance, and basically zero throttling - that's one major selling point of the beefier Pro.

[@NeuroPete]

The problem of people keeping their MacBooks longer because they are terrific maybe offset by a new source of demand -- former PC users like me. I made the switch to M1 MacBook Pro for music production. I switched because my 1-year-old desktop PC sounds like a jet engine taking off, which is not great when you're trying to record vocals. Also, my brand name PC which I paid a lot of money for was underpowered for what I needed, and very glitchy. Now I have a powerful computer that I can use both at the desktop and as a laptop. The pops and clicks I used to get when I used too many plugins or kept the buffer size too low in my audio recording software are a thing of the past. Even though the vendors of all the software products I use are not all converted to Apple silicon yet, my music production is problem free. Last I heard, for full computers, there are around 10 PC users for every Apple user. If Apple keeps on making such a damn fine product, maybe enough of the PC users will switch to offset the Apple users that want to hang on to their equipment for more than 5 years.

[@Wokiis]

Look the 2012 13" MBA and the 2012 13" MBP were performing VERY similarly and people did use them for video editing and the like during that era. The MBA line got weak with the redesign combined with Intel chips not increasing in perf/w, as well as GPU acceleration becoming common for many advanced tasks while the Intel IGPs simply couldn't deliver.

[@mrfroopy]

Luke Just from a video editor perspective, that light bulb right behind you above the 14 inch MBP is not good framing, you never want to have a light like. that distracting the eye from the subject which is you...

[@MACBoricua]

This is the perfect example of how a video should be made to attract viewers!! Take a note, Apple!!

[@spoonie1972]

I waited from a 2012 "classic" mbp. None of the wonky keyboards, lack of ports, or the thermal furnace models interested me.

[@DJMIXXTHAT]

I went from a MacBook pro mid-2015 16 512 i7 and it sucked overheating problems to a MacBook AIR 8/7 256 2022 for $849.99 and I'm very happy may get the next M2 Pro and keep my m1 as a daily driver.

[@TonyisToking]

Here’s an idea. Add touch support to macOS. I guarantee that would have people upgrading again.

[@juancastellon7183]

My previous Mac is a late 2012 Mac Mini. Just got an m1 Macbook Air.

[@tomburke5311]

I'm 72 and I've bought a 14" MacBook Pro Base level. It's more computer than I need, but I can honestly say that it's likely to be plenty good enough for as long as I'm around or interested in doing stuff. So I've probably bought my last laptop; my 5th (or 6th?) Apple laptop, and I suppose that's bad news for Apple. But if they're "only" selling 10% of the laptops bought worldwide then that gives them a huge target to try and hit. So let's not feel too bad for Apple! And how central is the Mac to Apple's fortunes these days anyway? I agree with you about the 2018 11" iPad Pro. I can't see any reason to go to anything more recent yet.

[@moderndaybeatlefan]

I definitely don't see myself upgrading my 14 inch anytime soon. Unless they do actually release that 15 inch MacBook.

[@dennisbrianalcaidemodina9511]

Good point. I’m still using a 10.5” iPad Pro, and an M1 13” Macbook Pro.

[@strobelricardo]

I live in Brazil and here Apple MacBooks costs the price of a new car. So back in 2013 I bought my 15" Retina and I still work with it. 9 years later and only now my MBP is not enough anymore for what I do(UI/UX Design). I wish I could upgrade to the new 16" but it would cost 2/3 of my yearly income.

[@nukers1234]

I'm on an 2019 MBP16 and want to upgrade to an M1 max MBP16, not because I don't like this machine, no in fact I love my intel Mac, but it has one flaw that I didn't notice before it become my one and only machine when I switched jobs, I regret not buying one with an better gpu.I spend a lot of hours gaming on this machine every month, and that 5300m holds it back a lot. That's the only reason I see to upgrade, besides that everything works like a dream, and yes, I actually like the keyboard and the Touch Bar on top. I don't see what KZbinhave against it as it works like it should, if anything they should beat more on the repairability drum and missing opportunity to upgrade the machine yourself instead of being locked in with what you bought!

[@evansytchou2006]

I upgraded from a 2020 Intel MacBook Air to an M1 MacBook Air last year as the Intel chip throttles like crazy every 10 minutes. I’m not planning on upgrading to a newer machine for probably at least 5 years at this point. (I still miss the wedge shape of the Air tho)

[@silvania1989]

I keep coming back to this video. You’re so right! Couple of very well made points

[@gerald1964]

Future improvements include increased CPU core counts, improved graphics cores for serious gamers for example, lower CPU power consumption via smaller transistor size, potential weight reduction due to reduced cooling system requirements, integration of cellular connectivity, updated WiFi and BT.

[@vigilante59]

I just purchased a new MacBook Air to upgrade from my MacBook Air 11" from 2012. I really wanted to get the M1 MacBook Air last year, but couldn't justify the outdated webcam

[@tompov227]

Image going back to January 2020 and saying, hey in 1 year the MacBook air will be CPU competitive with the last gen 16 MBP and will edit 3 streams of 4K with no fan lol

[@user_anthony]

The easiest answer to how to make ppl upgrade will be feature locking behind certain chips. Case in point is the current ipads with m1 and stage manager. So maybe in a few years apple adds something special in macos that will only work with m3/4 pro chips and thus entice customers into buying again in 3-4yrs time. But the other take is simply hardware specific features. Maybe future gens of M pro/max chips allow more external displays, hdmi 2.1, wifi 6e, etc. And of course eventually face id macs and no notch screens. Apple will have incentive options to get us consumers to buy again, but how tempting those options are and how quickly they can develop such is the catch. And im betting on apple not having as many of those ideas ready to go soon; as in whatever the m2 pro/max looks like, it probably wont have any major spotlight features to necessitate ppl to upgrade.

[@MikeSpinak]

I used a 2010 MacBook Pro for well over a decade. As things slowed down and compatibility issues arose, I wanted to upgrade. But (for my use) Apple just kept making their laptop offerings worse and worse. They Got rid of 17 inch displays, got rid of matte screens, got rid of the ports, ruined the keyboards, made them too thin so that they had thermal issues and crappy battery life, and on and on. Finally, they started making decent laptops again, and I got an almost fully specced 16 inch MacBook Pro M1 Max. I'm very happy with it (other than that stupid notch). What would Apple have to do to get me to upgrade again within 3 years or so? There's probably nothing Apple can do to get me to upgrade again within 3 years, and it's just not realistic to ask people who spent that much to upgrade that often. But more RAM and larger SSDs (at more reasonable prices) are always welcome, and I'd love it if they got rid of the notch. A USB A port or two would be nice. Better integration with third party devices (such as Air drop with my Samsung phone) would be a compelling improvement. Probably the biggest selling point Apple could add to get me to upgrade sooner would be to make the screen a touch screen that can be flipped around and used with Wacom type support, for art and for photo editing. That shouldn't be too hard, considering that my wife's much less expensive, 5 year old Wintel laptop has this feature.

[@cesjr]

The same is true for current iPhones.Therefor Apple will need to rely on other features to get people to upgrade; better displays, front camera, Face ID, etc. But hell, I'm still using a late 2013 iMac with a SSD swap.

[@marcokrauss5320]

Jup, 2015 15“ Retina is my love and M2 MacBook Pro 16“ will be the next. Can’t wait for it.