Apple Vision Pro and Animoog Galaxy - Sonic LAB Exploration

Nick and Gaz Williams have a talk with the talented @gbevinGeert Bevin @gbevin - @MoogSynthesizers Head of Software Development - we got to take a look at how the Apple Vision Pro is being used by Moog as the platform for one of the first Spatial Computing applications - the Moog Animoog Galaxy - as well as a sneak peak at the MidiWidgets app Geert has also been working on.
We get a glimpse of how this new platform might be used as a new way of creating workspaces.
Fascinating.
Animoog Galaxy is available now $29.99 via the US iTunes Store only.
moogmusic.com
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#soniclab
#applevisionpro #animooggalaxy
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[@bottomtext7700]

"Grandpa why did you allow the human control grid?" "There was a monophonic moog app that looked really cool. Now eat your crickets, zer/zim"

[@wilorules]

Hahahahahaha

[@alecdurbaville6355]

Animoog: I’m sold.😊

[@Ponk_80]

The lack of tactile feedback is what worries me about VR, it is tough enough on a flat screen with no physical buttons, I can’t imagine how much more difficult that it is going to be with nothing to touch at all, even though you can rest your hands on your lap, the fact that you use your eyes to point with, seems like it’s going to be tiresome in the end. With a physical interface, or a mouse and keyboard, you can do multiple things at the same time, whilst not having to look at what you are controlling with or at. Imagine having to drive a car without any physical feedback, you would not be able to keep your eyes on the road. Apple needs to fix a better way.

[@alanshewitt]

Remember when the first iPhone came out and everybody thought the lack of a physical qwerty keyboard made it a non-starter and nobody would ever get used to it?

[@LightLoveTruth]

mind blowing interview! Thanks!

[@leyetnin1]

Just got into 5U modular! It's amazing, REAL. Completely headed in the opposite direction from the AI nightmare.

[@i0.0t]

Here we go

[@normdurkin6425]

I agree with you brother.. they don't understand the direction that AI will eventually go .. if we allow it..

[@madcapmodular8147]

I would like a physical device like a modular system that had an AR overlay that could show info and interact with the system then you get the tactical feedback with the virtual interaction.

[@Fuzzfooger]

The Vision Pro and other headsets are Virtual/Augmented reality which is a completely different thing from Artificial Intelligence, it sounds like you are confusing the distinctly seperate technologies

[@normdurkin6425]

@@Fuzzfooger ..different but both are going into a direction that we will not be able to control for much longer.. when you can't distinguish it from reality anymore it will be too late.. and for what because people are lazy..?

[@Psychlist1972]

The way the Microsoft Hololens avoids the motion sickness problem and lets you "start from your real space" is the glass is transparent and the AR content is projected on to one-way glass inside the lenses. It tends to be more focused on industrial use, though.

[@DoctorRevers]

Looking forward to this one. Love everything Animoog.

[@cjadams7434]

would also love you to have him back and talk about the Eighharp.. !

[@isaacc7]

There are accessibility setting that allow you to use eye blinks and head movements to select things. I'm not sure if they can be used alongside the regular gestures or if they replace them. Would be handy (hah!) to be able to trigger something while playing with both hands.

[@rwlurk]

what is the Bluetooth MIDI setup to the keyboard controller?

[@Djpuzzle]

Very cool thanks for this! That Animoog Galaxy slimmed down interface looks like a deli scale lol. Excited to see how things evolve.

[@batch8415]

Gert - please port the Model 15 app to the Vision Pro so we can interact with all of it at the same time (versus scrolling up and down), things like that.

[@thesrabbit]

My first thought as well. This could be cool tech for VCV rack or even physical modular.

[@alecdurbaville6355]

Super video quality

[@earthhuman5448]

Hahaha. The future is laaaaame. 😂

[@straighttalk2069]

Really enjoyed this. Two almost unrelated questions for Geert and Moog. I recently purchased Mariana which is available for Mac, IOS and PC was it developed by your team? and if so when will you make PC versions of AnimoogZ and the other soft synths?

[@bojangprodoktschns5428]

Since it's tracking the hands it would be perfect for a Moog Theremin app. Mabe even teaching you how to play by correcting your hand placement/gestures and so on in combination with a real one.

[@robgrainger5314]

That would be lovely, but currently I believe it only tracks to the extent needed to detect the pinch to select movement. I hope Apple improve hand tracking, otherwise that's a massive limitation and pretty immersion breaking.

[@ThirdEyeWarrior]

😮 Gots to HAVE IT !

[@Ponk_80]

There is a reason why we used to have a mouse and keyboard for computers. Until we’re able to control a computer with our mind, VR will feel like you are using the computer with a huge handicap, mobile devices never took of as a gaming platform, because of the huge handicap that you can only play with two thumbs for all the controls that you used to have a mouse and keyboard for.

[@XanderEwald]

Not taking off at gaming didn’t keep the mobile phone to become the most successful electronic device. There are at least 8 billion cell phones in use worldwide, more then 4 times the number of computers. On a global scale, gaming is a niche.

[@Winter-zv1dv]

Which are tactile.

[@Substance242]

Very interesting, looks almost usable for the very first time as for VR, I'd say. I was just thinking about one Apple Vision thing - people do not have the same field of view (of course, imagine photo lenses but in eye). So the real world size does not 100% match one displayed in Vision, right? Or is there setting for that... "calibrate real world" or something. :-)

[@paulmint1775]

I Can't even afford new sunglasses let alone the Terminators head set :)

[@retromograph3893]

Getting a real Tomorrow's World 1978 vibe with this........

[@gazfunk]

Why?

[@tranquilitybase6417]

Go Geert GO!

[@bugglebegger143]

playing a keyboard without tactile response is something that seems very unlikely to take off perhaps until this tech leaps forward 5X from where it is now. nothing but respect for their willingness to chart that path foward tho. amazing SonicState interview for sure.

[@SebastianBeyer]

a lampster ^^

[@AdAsteris]

The Animatrix 🤔

[@mossgraber]

First video I saw about this thing that sparked at least a little bit of interest. But I still do not really see the use-case. Creating virtual controllers on top of your real-gear is really interesting but thinking twice, you cannot really touch them and there are many hardware controllers which you can get for a fraction of this price which you can also nicely put on top of your synth. And do you really want to put on this thing just for this? Furthermore, I do not see anything that couldn't have been done with all the other existing devices. Then there is the "I have a huge screen" use-case which so far is the most interesting one but again I only see this for travelling and do I want to carry one more device on a trip?

[@Dogboy73]

A solution looking for a problem. I have SynthVR on PCVR (via Quest 2/3). It's a novelty. So is this. This just costs 7 times as much.

[@TheNimasan]

it's really imperssive but absolutely not for me.

[@Winter-zv1dv]

Another way for Roland to sell you a Juno, Jupiter, SH and 808. Oh good.

[@thesrabbit]

With a whole “new” sound engine. SpaceCore oscillators.

[@tendrel_sound]

I was really excited about this until I found out there’s no wired audio output from the goggles

[@SamHocking]

Wired audio will be a $1000 addon accessory knowing Apple. I'd hope they do it more like other VR headsets where your audio is on the PC already.

[@tendrel_sound]

@@SamHocking I would pay for some kind of external dock with 1/4” output and possibly Midi IO

[@EannaButler]

@@tendrel_sound Ah yes, the dongle solution. It’s surely coming…

[@Ponk_80]

Another thing, flat design is okay for flat screens, but it is super boring in a 3D environment. We need to have a 3D interface for a 3D vr headset.

[@Alesistx2023]

Awesome … brb buying apple stock now.

[@PWMaarten]

I think it will take a while, and some real downscaling of these products, before this really hits off. I can’t see myself wanting one ever but I never am interested in using the cutting edge of technology anyway.

[@stevenSouthpole562]

From a music perspective, I still don't get it. This will suffer the same issues as making music on the iPad suffers from but even worse as you're not touching anything at all. There is a reason why you stopped making Sonic Touch. I could see applications in other areas. given the cost why not just buy your dream synth?

[@aceyage]

No one is going to wave their hands around all day long like this. It's really solution looking for a problem.

[@drrobairebeckwith3687]

Dare I say that Animoog or indeed any software or hardware synth or physical instrument would most likely be easier to play and more rewarding without a virtual reality headset. It seems extremely detached and potentially disorientating. For performing musicians, live performance usually requires ‘connecting’ with their audience who like to see how you interact with your instrument. It all seems very elaborate and esoteric and also unnecessary additional (and expensive) technology for music production

[@bugglebegger143]

the Future of this technology is basically the future of everything we know. but this current version looks pretty useless. i think good apps will be made quickly as it becomes more affordable though. good on them at least charting a path forward. in 15 years we'll be watching this video like "damn that was the start."

[@JAAPIOJO]

We already know for decades the closer you are to a screen the worst it is for your eyes. Lack of feedback is not my concern, my eyes are.

[@user-oj4ey3fb7r]

Дякую за підтримку з України🇺🇦

[@SamHocking]

It's crazy that that the music industry largely ignores all new technology until Apple start marketing it as a new thing lol!

[@illustriouschin]

I'm interested to hear another example of that.

[@bugglebegger143]

Apple seems to really undervalue actual software developers to foster creation of apps that actually justify the existence of their hardware. it really speaks to the lack of leadership and vision the company has right now. this tech looks cool but it should have been rolled out with a robust ecosystem of developers supported and nurtured by Apple. idiotic and small minded. from everything I've seen so far, this rollout is trending toward embarrassing and negative for them. that sentiment is only accentuated by the price of the unit that makes the majority of people who can't afford it more prone to enjoy watching it fail. but i want it.

[@_o__o_]

I farted into apple vision

[@EannaButler]

While I do like to see new technologies advance, I have an issue with the act of shutting out the world by donning a headset. It’s like a big self-centred f-off to the world! 😢

[@isaacc7]

You did notice that Geert could see everything right?

[@EannaButler]

@@isaacc7 I did. Geert could see a 12 millisecond latency-delayed rendering of the world, backed up by a refresh rate that should stop the body from rejecting the experience. Mighty! But if I were to look at Geert, I see what looks like a dodgy animatronic insect from a 70s B movie. Not sure I’m down with that.

[@beamifrend]

Talk about inventing something and then trying to find a use for it, jeez. Great for a couple of hours messing about, then Ebay here we come!

[@BB69175]

I want nothing to do with this tbh

[@notsure1135]

You don’t want headaches and burst vessels in your eye? What are you? Some kind of troglodyte fogey? Hahahahaha. Me either.

[@Primusux]

I’m intrigued by it. But it doesn’t seem to be as sensitive to pinch gesturing as it should. The idea is the future of DJing IMO, but both the hardware (Vision Pro) and the Moog software still need at least 3-5 years of refinement in order for me to feel it worth the investment. But where this is going is pretty mind blowing for sure.

[@APU658]

I want everything to do with the Vision Pro. I can’t wait for mine.

[@NullStaticVoid]

Animoog is so boring. A virtual version doesn't improve on the whole extended LFO thing. It would be so much better with more control over the timbre than just a mod matrix.

[@GizzyDillespee]

Since it scans every room it's in, Apple will have their most detailed map yet of your home🤣. I know Geert said Moog doesn't have access to that data... but Apple does. Can developers buy access to that data? Virtual real estate agent apps would want that, and possibly other companies would be interested, too. Thieves could use it to conduct dry runs... can it detect the laser alarms at the museum? Asking for friend

[@Synthshop]

Why hasn't the word "Oculus 3" mentioned ? Gaz said it but was drowned out by someone "accidentally hitting a key" So I'm curious was this interview granted based on the condition that Oculus would not be mentioned.. Unless I missed it? If this is the case shame on sonictalk for allowing themselves to be censored by Apple or one of its partners. The most important question for me is will this be available for Oculus 3 ? Because I'm never buying the apple vision, at least not this generation.But I already own, like so many people across the globe now, the better value Oculus.

[@SamHocking]

I hope it's available for better VR headsets than the Apple Vision Pro. I don't get Bevin's excitement for the 4K Vision headset for $3.5K here at all, when you can buy an 8K Pimax headset that destroys the image quality of Apple for 1/3 of the price long before Apple copied everyone else.

[@isaacc7]

Don't be paranoid. I'm sure Geert would have mentioned it if it was coming to other devices. He wants them to sell after all. Wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't come to other devices because of the conversation starting around 44 min about the development environment. He mentioned that this is built on top of the Animog Z and uses all of the Apple frameworks like Core Audio, Core Midi, etc. I have no idea what the audio development environment is like for Oculus but I would be very surprised if it is anywhere near as comprehensive. That's something that people forget, Apple has a very deep development framework and it is now very easy to develop for all of their devices at the same time.

[@normdurkin6425]

not too smart.. going to let AI out of the bag because someone doesn't want to purchase hardware..?

[@isaacc7]

What does AI have to do with this?

[@normdurkin6425]

@@isaacc7 ..they are using AI to create an augmented reality.. they will eventually loose control of both.. I have been studying quantum physics/mechanics since 2012..

[@sturdyblock]

Terrible. Good content must be hard come by if Sonicstate are peddling this garbage. Embarrassing.

[@sonicstate]

So a new product from the largest tech company linked to Moog who were also one of the major levers to bring iPad to a mass market through their app development is not relevant?

[@sturdyblock]

​@@sonicstate Interesting yes, relevant to perhaps 20 people who watch your channel. Apple Vision 'Pro' about as chic as Twiki wearing welders goggles, video at 35:08 says it all.

[@isaacc7]

​@@sturdyblock get over yourself. I found this amazing. If nothing else hearing from a (the?) developer at Moog was really interesting. There are probably a million people making music with iPads, the Vision Pro is an obvious extension of that. Why wouldn't Sonicstate cover this? It is clearly relevant to Gaz and Nick and that is all that is needed to be relevant for the channel no?

[@sturdyblock]

@isaacc7 Get over myself? Tsk Tsk. Back to your shiny fruit and The Guardian.

[@robfel68]

@sturdyblock Wonder why you only have 3 subs? 😁. May I add it's a retorical question since social skills and higher brain functions isn't your forte my friend.

[@johnhamers4571]

Nick you are a one of a kind interviewer who's pretty sharp in giving us useful information. Thanks a lot for this nice insight. There's definitely a big future in this interface. The more rich people who buy the first versions pay for further development is a way I thought about it 🙏🏼🦴✌🏼