Aptera redesigned the chassis and suspension to fit the EMR3

[@bobbygaglione7553]

The suspension design is called cantilever. Many supercars use this. You can access the coilover a lot easier to tinker with the spring preload tuning, swap springs, etc. just easier to get to it when it's sitting on top. To be honest it may actually be cheaper. The massive upper control arm that was there previously has been shrunk, and replaced with a small link that may even be an off the shelf part. Overall I think the suspension design is an improvement, with the assumption that they're not going to bury it under a body piece

[@GaryGreenway]

It is common practice to put foam in front of the lateral front crossmember (crash bar) to absorb a lot of energy before it starts deforming frame components, This is especially effective in low speed crashes. They can tune how much energy it absorbs by the size and shape of the hole in the middle.

[@dennisg-ski7829]

I believe the material is part of the primary crushable zone. It can absorb most or all impact energy in a low velocity collision. For a higher speed type. It increases impact-time, dissipating the amount of energy that reaches the cabin occupants.

[@RP-hn1qc]

​@@dennisg-ski7829once the styrofoam cracks its suppose to be replaced.. was frustrating getting replacements as they do not come in a solid or cardboard protective cases for transport.

[@GaryGreenway]

The rear of the battery pack is in a safer location in a crash than the front of the pack. Putting the BMS/contactor unit in the rear is the safest choice. A rear junction box is also closer to the charger inlet. The highest sustained current (and therefor power loss) is likely to be in the cable between the power inlet and the BMS. Best to keep that one as short as possible.

[@gr8dvd]

Yes, connectors away from passengers does seem safer 👍

[@dennisg-ski7829]

Agreed, I'm certain the placement position is required for Underwriters Labs (UL) and DOT compliance.

[@CH-es4up]

The changes are necessary to get the Aptera to production before the 22nd Century gets here. Honestly, I would have loved hub motors, but they aren’t there yet. And it is far more important for Aptera to get a fully functional production vehicle to market for long term success than to die on the cross of bleeding edge technology. The change does get me back closer to my original order (black and with Batman logos on the doors and it would be just about perfect). I am looking forward to getting my Aptera sooner rather than later. I would take it yesterday if I could.

[@DemaGeek]

The additional arm is necessary to convert the vertical motion of the wheels to horizontal motion to be inline with the horizontal shocks. The original upper A-arm is simpler because it moves/pivots vertically with the wheels and no direction change is needed.

[@ronfarnsworth7074]

Maybe the original shock position would interfere with the axle?

[@GaryGreenway]

This multilink upper A arm configuration will have more horizontal travel at the shock mount than the one piece design. More shock travel makes it easier to tune the suspension with spring rates and valving.

[@marksaunto2588]

A few more pivot points on the front suspension should not create any kind of negatives. pivots are not a high maintenance item and the linkage design allows adjustment of the leverage ratio applied to the shock allowing easy fine tuning of the suspension characteristics. I do not consider this “inelegant”, the packaging is much better.

[@1978rayking]

Serious car buyers will care the Name Aptera will be trusted and loved for any future competitors, buyers, and investors not to mention the pride and joy anyone in Aptera will have, because it matters.

[@johnhayes3314]

The testing in Italy likely ended up with required geometry changes. Removing all that weight from the hubs made for a dramatic change in how the suspension behaves.

[@Rich1Rodriguez]

Well tested in Italy 🇪🇺 🇮🇹 gives me great confidence.

[@DaBinChe]

The linkage in the front suspension is a good thing, makes it more tunable and just works much better. We see this in higher performance motorcycles rear suspension, higher end performance cars..even higher end mountain bikes

[@artboymoy]

This is probably done for when they have to make the 250 600 and 1000 range battery packs. They'll have to tune the suspension for that, won't they?

[@DaBinChe]

@@artboymoy yes

[@spankeyfish]

7:05 The double wishbone style rear suspension is also common on shaftie bikes. It eliminates the coupling between the vertical movement of the suspension and the rotation of the wheel.

[@DrTeeHenry]

I believe Chris McCammon confirmed on the AOC Discord channel that the cylinder on the steering column is the power assist motor and that the front (white) object is not an air intake but is part of the crash mediation.

[@brianrosenlof388]

@@DrTeeHenry I know it is becoming more common place, but I like that they are using electric power assist. I hate have to deal with power steering fluid and associated leaks.

[@MichaelWardrop-n6r]

Thanks Steve the render was and is AWESOME! So much detail. Some of the comments are very intelligent and informed. Basically the consensus is very positive for an improved and sophisticated chassis. Aptera engineers are amazing!

[@johnmalcom9159]

I think Italian engineers

[@illuminape7632]

9:42 sway bar, it connects to the end links which connect to the knuckle, it essentialy links each sides suspension together so when you turn hard right, it helps pull the right side down as the left side deflects.

[@geezers10]

This chassis option was likely in Aptera's engineering back pocket a long time, the risk probability analysis by their project management team would dictate an alternative if the Elaphe option failed to come through. The BIC would therefore would have been designed to accommodate the design option, I'd be very surprised if the rendering is not very close to production hardware configuration.

[@RBickersjr]

It looks like to me that front white stuff looks like the kind of Styrofoam s like material that Saturn put in the front and rear of their cars. To Give them more cushion when it comes to just slight bumps. In my opinion they work very well in the Saturns.

[@RaymondCore-ts5jl]

On your preference for fewer parts. Sandy Monroe, of Monroe Associates, has already impressed that on Aptera, hence the body is just a few parts. Sometimes, when engineering, different factors take precedent. To get the robustness needed for safety and longetivity, sometimes to get one peice to do that would make it too large, heavy, or bulky. Sometimes, distributing the work load among several parts can result in overall savings in weight, size, and bulk. I'm going to trust the engineers at Aptera to make the right decisions. There are many talented people with interests in this car that the engineers are being scrutinized in every possible way. The things you didn't like will all be hidden.

[@1978rayking]

Nice!!!!! Even better would be a removable or replaceable beam in the center of those very well placed struts, to ensure long term forces will only need parts replacement 👍 because i have seen even the toughest cars frame and bracket issues, this looks good.

[@NYCCEJ]

Great observations Steve! I am not enough of an automotive person to add anything, but hope to hear insight from our Aptera community members here or in the Discord.

[@rngalston]

It'll be interesting to see what makes it to production.

[@lsh3rd]

Considering this is a production intent design, the answer *should* be all of it.

[@paul9156c]

It'll be unbelievable, yes maybe even a miracle, certainly it'll feel like a dream if it ever makes it to production.

[@cruzer01]

Thanks Steve.

[@nononsenseBennett]

The use of energy absorbing foam/plastic is the way to go IMO. Agree the complexity of the suspension is perplexing. Can't wait to drive one!

[@robertstout7756]

This major change would be a good opportunity to minimize the extreme width of the car. I had a deposit on 2008 version and then again on the new one but I recently canceled because at 16 inches wider than my model three it was a deal killer for me.

[@bobhellman8676]

A wise decision. My hope was that they would build mules, do real world acceptance testing/focus groups and come to the conclusion that a design that would meet the EU

[@salimufari]

I think you are right about the upper steering column assembly. The black cylinder on the left driver's side looks like an electric stepper motor for a pinion gear power assist.

[@kevroll99]

I agree on the suspension, cleaner and simpler seems better but as long as it works I guess it doesn't really matter.

[@luisvelasco316]

Adding pivot points will probably increase the suspension compliance, through more bushings, improving the ride. As time degrades the bushings, however, there may be a loss of precision and more tendency to bump steer, etc. I think they went with more parts to allow longer jounce and rebound on the coil-over shock units. If they'd used the single piece, they probably would have had to use shorter units with very high spring rates which could highly stress the upper A-arm, introducing more risk for failure. The new design does significantly increase the complexity and time for assembly, though. This is all just speculation.

[@lucianbakerii7562]

I think the suspension pivot points are there to change the forces exerted on the aerodynamic control arm. The control arm may be aluminum and with the aero shape would need the change in leverage to effectively work the coil over damper without breaking. This design appears to be influenced by open wheel race car suspension. Cool.

[@frankweigand3654]

Agree. This is similar to an Indy car or F1 car with horizontal dampers.

[@anthonysoliz5760]

Keep up the great work. Just remember pace yourself.

[@robertstout7756]

Removing the hub motors, greatly reduces the unsprung weight. I liked the simplicity of the previous design, but handling should be better with the new design.

[@bobhellman8676]

Steve, If ever your intuition captured all rays, it's this time regarding the "new" vs. "old" suspension. On suspension: Goal is to transfer wheel motion to spring/damper motion with the least weight, deflection, and friction achievable, within the confines of the vehicle. You were absolutely correct about the "old" variant being a better choice, that simply laying down the spring/damper works. It is the line of action of the spring/damper to the perpendicular distance to the pivot that matters. On space, there was nothing to preclude the upper connection point of the "old" to move outboard to achieve the same location as the "new". Picture the "old" with this connection point directly above the frame pivot of the upper arm. It was only long before to get the near-vertical spring/damper to clear the frame. That's what you picked up on and you were 100% correct. Here's why the "new" one sucks... - They pick a point about 1/3 of the way out from the inboard pivot to drive the rocker, and they add resistance/compliance. - So that reduces the travel vs. the wheel by 1/3, and drives the forces up by 3. -They add resistance/compliance at the rocker pivot. - The rocker really, by the ratio of the arm lengths, about 3:1, tries to get that travel back, and they add yet another resistant/compliant element to connect it to the spring/damper. Simplicity is everything, this is a mechanical circle jerk. Here's the most critical thing: Any resistance/compliance between the wheel motion and the actual spring/damper diminishes the role of the spring/damper. The damper cannot control any of those resistances (and they're springs) between it and the wheel. It can only damp what's fed to it through it's links, in a straight line through its axis. You have to feed wheel motion to it without all of the crap they've put in this new chain. Any attempts to tune this suspension would be like trying to turn a wet noodle into a popsicle stick. Someone commented on rocker-type suspension being a supercar thing. I have an Ariel Atom and a Vanderhall in my garage. Both are affordable vehicles for enthusiasts that have rocker-type suspensions. Both are well designed and employ these complexities for very clear reasons, if you look at the designs. Aptera's "new" suspension is some amateur's concept of something cool. Not an expert's solution to performance/price. Steve, I commend you again. Hero badge. Take a bow! Note: All of this stuff that they're doing now would have normally been done on mules, that would have 10's of thousands of miles on them, starting back late '21 when CA reported they had 100 employees. No clue what those 100 people were actually doing, but a dozen or two should have been doing this.

[@deanmcmanis9398]

I think that those boxes are all part of the steering and brake assist for safety systems, and future ADAS control. But it is just a guess. I think that the additional suspension parts were needed to get the proper geometry for full suspension and dampening control. I suspect that the chassis has been in Carlsbad for a short while now, but we won't see it until the PI2 model is driving around. Remember that Steve mentioned that they were going to first build PI2 with a low power enabled version of the EMR3 drive system, to be followed in a short while by a high power utilization of the drive system. With subsequent road, efficiency, and track testing. However they did say that PI2 would be minimally configured. Meaning that it would not have many/any comfort and convenience components installed.

[@wingsounds13]

As I understood the comments in various videos, PI2 will start out much like the Beta prototype, a bare shell and rolling chassis. After initial validation has been done for this stage of the build, parts will be added to bring it closer to a finished build. I think that externally it will look finished when they are done with it, but the interior will still be raw.

[@deanmcmanis9398]

@@wingsounds13 They definitely said the the PI2 would be just for testing purposes. Incomplete but drivable. Depending on how quickly PI2 takes to become road-worthy, and then how long it takes to be track-worthy, we will see if it is worth having another testbed outfitted for demo duty. I'm guessing that PI3 and PI4 will be coming in 2024, so it is not too long to wait.

[@1978rayking]

😊Battery 🔋 cooling seals sould not be to bad to get to when they get brit or long term fluctuations. Thumbs up 👍 👌 good so far.

[@theproffessional9]

The suspension having three parts instead of one is due to the fact that they're trying to dampen the forces applied during movement, while now having to mount the shocks transverse instead of diagonally.

[@masminor]

This thing is a toy that will never be mass produced.

[@battery_wattage]

@@masminor people buy RC toys. Traxxas, Losi, Arrma, etc.. They sell fine. 🤣

[@masminor]

@@battery_wattage LMAO!

[@CalvinJordan-b1c]

Did some research and found the motor is used in the Kia niro

[@EnmandsBand1]

Really? I was trying to find that info as I just bought the new model 2022 Niro EV 🙂accepting the fact that I could not continue driving the old Ioniq until Aptera gets approved properly in Europe! Their market will be US and it will take years (if at all) to get the approvals done for Europe.

[@harriettanthony7352]

Hey OP/ Thanks for this tidbit! I own a 2019 Kia Niro and it is a fine EV motor

[@andrewfuller8440]

I wonder if these suspension parts are stock chary auto parts?😊

[@1978rayking]

😊LET'S See it shouldn't be so tough to replace that electric steering motor inside the car as well, So far so good. APTERA IS SMART I GOT TO SAY.😊

[@timmyssweet]

Well, that unsprung weight, in a light car, was my concern from day one, so I happy to see the improvement.

[@RP-hn1qc]

Forget upsprung weight.. how long do wheel bearings last and consider the cost of replacing the bearings on the motor that would take place of a traditional wheel hub and its bearings.

[@raxzore]

Rear or Front battery connector doesn't matter because of rear charge port. Right? Or are these sets of cables different diameters?

[@glennzajic7318]

I just hope the modifications to the rear suspension system will still support a future third drive wheel hub motor.

[@juancarrera5524]

The little box is likely an abs control unit. Looks very similar to a Bosch unit

[@garywozniak7742]

Thanks Steve. Great video as usual. I've gotten over the drivetrain change and up just waiting to what the price is going to be and what year my reservation # will be filled. I wont pay $40k and I can't wait until 2026 or '27.

[@artsmith103]

Then you're out. Welcome to the spectator cheap seats. Enjoy the ride.

[@garywozniak7742]

​@artsmith103 My thoughts as well. But for for $100 I'll watch to show and see how it goes.

[@stealth9639]

I feel like the redesigned control arm might have something to do with the need for improved suspension dampening. I feel like very driving video I have seen, the ride seems bumpy and there are many sounds of rattling parts. Hopefully this improves that, because that is one of my biggest fears of buying a $40,000 car and having it be a bumpy ride.

[@babaluto]

You may be correct however, more link points will offer more tolerance issues with age and likely more squeaks.

[@lsh3rd]

I think it had more to do with making room for CV shafts.

[@ROGERGENEREUX-f7i]

Steve, Does the Aptera have a hand break? like between the drivers and passenger seats.

[@SamuelHurst]

I believe the box in reference is a radar which would make sense for the safety aspects of the vehicle

[@antibrevity]

They could not keep the same or similar upper arms as they need to translate the previously vertical motion to horizontal motion without reducing spring rate as the suspension compresses. The change does increase complexity, but was likely necessary in order to fit within the "hood" height. My concern would be strength as the arm seems much "flatter" and may require a more expensive process, but I'm sure they've engineered it properly. That is indeed an anti-sway bar and it appears to be connected in a typical manner. They are usually attached to a lower arm, though sometimes through a connecting rod.

[@ModernNeandertal]

Being a guy that wrenches on my vehicles even though I don't really care to, my question is what it will take to get at that electric motor if it needs looking at. Hub motors were right out there and the body of the Aptera was seperate and so no problem getting at the hubs. Not anymore. This new fangled motor arrangement is going to be shrouded in a glued together Aptera body so what is it going to take to get at that motor when it needs getting at. Aptera should explain how hard or easy that motor will be able to be wrenched on. And they better not say these motors should not have to be looked at until 150+ thousand miles because that would not answer the question at all. I have a Buell motorcyle that has a belt drive that was supposed to be maintnance free but in reality it turns out the belt usually only last about 25000 miles and then after that they can just snap which mine did about 2 miles from home but thank the Lord not on Interstate 80 that I had just exited from when it failed. The reality of thes Aptera's is that every owner will be out there on there own and better be willing and able to fix whatever needs fixing because nobody is going to know how to work on them since there will be no dealers. It apparently is the same with all these other new electric cars that have no real dealer networks and the new owners are finding that no one knows a darned thing about fixing them and insurance companies are totalling them for the smallest of problems. Look into the website called Rich Rebuilds and you will get a taste of what is going on with all these new electric cars that no one knows how to work on. Aptera will be the same. All new models have teething problems no matter how much you wish they didn't.

[@arlenbell4376]

I would guess that some of the relocation of parts was done to maintain a more optimal front weight balance. The motor adds a lot of new weight in the front.

[@wingsounds13]

What the inboard motor does is move some weight around. As I understand it, the inboard motor change actually reduces the vehicle weight by a few kilos.

[@tskogen6905]

The majority of drag came from suspension. I imagine some of the changes are to reduce the drag

[@williamread8186]

Suspension systems can be complex. With this single motor with drive shafts one issue that has to be addressed is that when the wheels go up and down relative to the motor placement has to trace the driveshaft arc so that it doesn’t get compressed or stretched so I can see the likely need for more links and pivots. This is why I thought the hub motor design was cool because it simplifies so many aspects of the design such as this.

[@merrickhurst4150]

I also simply do not care. These changes are irrelevant to me as long as they get to production. They can make the best car in the world later. They need to get moving.

[@randyland1000]

Agreed!

[@artboymoy]

That's why I'm fine with these compromises. It's come such a long way to realization since that 2009 build. EV, solar, light weight, and that aerodynamic shape? This is what matters most to me.

[@davidl.howser9707]

You simply do not care about suspension design changes until YOUR new Aptera is in your hands and everyone's Aptera rides poorly from rushinh, and YOU are the first to contact Aptera to complain about ride comfort after having not cared just to get YOUR Aptera delivered ASAP for immediate gratification needs.

[@artboymoy]

@@davidl.howser9707 Do you know that the suspenion they have here will be crap from the one they had before the design change? It seems like they have really good people working on it, so I'll trust them that i'll be just as comfortable. I think they had people in Italy working on it, didn't they?

[@davidl.howser9707]

@@artboymoy enjoy the ride, rough bounce or smooth

[@santanumaitra3962]

Not sure if there has been any comments on the current/new 0-60 mph time - I saw on our portal that it has gone up to 6.0 sec with the 2-wheel drive arrangement. Is this # final or may go down a bit as the electric motor is still pretty darn powerful for such a light automobile? Any thoughts?

[@bertrandp2977]

The website has staled information corresponding to the IWM FWD version. Aptera is working on an updated version of website. I am guesstimating under 5s 0-60 or better with IMR3 FWD…

[@ScottOstr]

I assume the bearing will be steel and the knuckle will be aluminum making it extremely difficult to replace the bearing because of the dissimilar metals. I like seeing standard hydraulic brakes. Replacing a brake actuator is more difficult than a brake booster. I wish we could see the radiator cooling system and cabin AC system. My comments are my amateur Prius DIY view point.

[@garydmercer]

I really hope the interior leg room isn't compromised for us tall guys. I'm 6 foot 5 tall and hope this engine change doesn't compromise the passenger compartment room.

[@hardcoreherbivore4730]

The PI will be a bit bigger than the prototypes. Saw a 6’6” guy fit reasonably well in Gamma. Did you get a chance to sit in one?

[@wingsounds13]

I doubt that these design changes have made any difference in the cabin. If they did, they would have to have new tooling made for the biggest CF-SMC part in the body. That would be $$$ VERY expensive in both money and time.

[@DemaGeek]

Steve Fambro has specifically said that all drive unit change takes place outside the body, with no effect on the cabin in any way.

[@pezpengy9308]

thank you for doing this in the midst of life occuring... well done sir and very much appreciated. also... damn there goes the frunk.

[@tortoise62]

Looks like a totally new design - not a small feat. Was lean design compromised due to time to market?

[@spyro440]

They surely have good reasons to go backwards and add all this complexity. I really hope to drive my fully AWD, torque-vectored hub drive Aptera one day. Still dont know, what the actual problem was.

[@casylong8383]

backwards? says you and not them

[@craigarnold1212]

It will be interesting to see what the new white pieces do and are made of... stix2you suggests polystyrene. It comes in 2 forms; expanded and extruded. Extruded is typically used as insulation in the form of sheets and is closed cell. Expanded is typically to absorb shock; motorcycle/bicycle helmets but is also used for dock floats that are encapsulated to keep water out [it is open cell and can hold water in just the EPS foam]. It may be that the front absorber encapsulates EPS? The side pieces may be more about sound and thermal insulation than crash absorption. It is also suggested that it maybe SMC-G? Then again it could be coated aluminum? It does look like it is easily replaced if the engine compartment is not damaged.

[@mikeransom1168]

The additional suspension complication is disappointing. Too bad the in wheel motor didn't work out. From a space utilization perspective, I think it solved more problems than it created. I wonder, where will they put the air conditioning equipment?

[@fotoguru222]

They showed where the A/C unit and where it goes in a video. It is behind the motor, under the dash, between the footwells.

[@artsmith103]

​@@fotoguru222 Where ever it goes, also needs ~1ft sq radiator, fan, air path in and out.

[@RayleneCawood]

All off-road and/or snow/ice ability has gone out the window: For a stock (non limited-slip) differential: Losing grip on one of the driven wheels results in the wheel that still has grip not getting any torque/twist. ie: A bit of ice or slush or hole or lift under one wheel and there's no traction to the other one either. ie: Both/all wheels have no traction and you're stuck. This can be ameliorated by control systems that apply some well timed braking force to the wheel that has lost traction and is spinning faster. Is Aptera planning to implement such??? I suggest Aptera spending time on the Endless Sphere forums: The leading members there do 100 mph plus and are more than qualified and experienced to come up with an accessible, dependable, cost effective and far superior solution to this Aptera problem.

[@davidmarlow194]

So many changes to the chassis and many more parts.

[@madusmaxamus8670]

The shocks have been changed to allow for the motor placement. Till you get more information about what the materials are all the rest is only guess work.

[@willdatsun]

i hope the suspension design has also made it narrow enough to be used outside America.

[@takenoshortcuts]

Its one thing that complexity can introduce more potential failure points but theres also more weight and costs and supply chain changes. Also, the changes will all add up to different driving characteristics. People liked the suspension, steering, and acceleration characteristics. Hopefully the car will feel similar or better. Fingers crossed. It also gets to be too different to go back to in-wheel motors later, I think.

[@Imageon44]

Certainly looks different. More complex. Whole lot of change from the prototypes they’ve been working with. It now is similar to vehicles on the road today. Should be easer and cheeper to produce.

[@jeffreypetsinger2967]

Have we lost the better-riding rear suspension now, or is the new design perform the same or better?

[@JayGrant-hi5ms]

It’s still a 4-bar arrangement. As far as I can tell, the geometry hasn’t changed or changed much, if any.

[@colewilborn]

Anytime I look at a design and have questions for somethings purpose, I have to ask what is that components primary objective and does it serve any secondary objectives? Sometimes, a secondary objective is not easy to determine. But if a system is structured in a "more complicated" way than it seems it would ror sound be required, there are probably secondary objectives as a factor. Redundancy, safety, legalities, etc are all secondary objectives that could be legitimate and logical reasons for any of the changes to the most recent renders. Also, real-world testing results have occurred and could have shown the original design was nice on paper, but in a real world application this is better somehow.

[@madmotorcyclist]

That sway bar is pretty low to the ground, so will it be covered underneath by a body panel?

[@JayGrant-hi5ms]

I think the end will be exposed. But don’t think much if any of the lower arm will be covered.

[@Nick-yo9pg]

Part on the drivers side looks like an ABS/VSA modulator for brakes and stability.

[@daves1646]

A guess - some of complexity in front suspension is to manage the extra in-board weight controlled for handling/dynamics AND keep frontal area impact at a minimum. Rear swing arm no longer mounts hub motor and may have been lightened/material reduced since it’s for a FWD Aptera design. Anyone thinking that changing the motor setup this substantially is easy, is overly optimistic. On the whole change from Elaphe, I may have missed the specifics, but every time I’ve visited their web site recently, I see ZERO about manufacturing capability. Only design. Seems like there was a supply issue. That’d be a show-stopper if going toward production readiness soon.

[@bobhellman8676]

Questions: Steve, when they are at the rolling chassis stage, are you planning on a full video overview of what they are actually getting from Italy? Showing the actual PI suspension front and rear and all structural components? Transparency and all, and in the interest of prepping for Right to Repair, is it the expectation that they will chronicle the build as they get the PI’s ready for test? Chronicle all the testing? Has anyone looked at the chassis being proposed, noted that the cost on the US Capital Group’s BOM pie chart for this is $2,147 (which would have to be a delivered from Italy number) and asked yourselves how real all of this is? Or are you content to just assume “They’ve got this!” Lastly, what are the plans to update all on USCG’s progress? The expectation is what, $60 mil by Thanksgiving latest?

[@ApteraOwnersClub]

As soon as they have a drivable PI, my plan is to go down there and film as much as I'm allowed to and get as much detail as possible.

[@bobhellman8676]

Excellent! But hoping for a full overview of the chassis and suspension before they "encapsulate" it.

[@ritchiehornak3917]

This Aptera is a different car than the one we’ve been presented over the past few years, with an alternate drivetrain, different chassis and suspension, a more traditional cooling system design, HVAC has been altered…only the body and solar remain. Once this chassis is proved out then we will need to reevaluate the platform.

[@tigerstallion]

and the weight distribution seems to have changed dramatically. thats huge for drivability and safety

[@mrmou.4893]

yeah, its called design and enginnering lmao, why do u think production cars and concept cars rarely look alike, aptera is doing a remarkable job sticking to the concept as close as posible while making it actually doable

[@ritchiehornak3917]

@@mrmou.4893 you’re intellect baffles us mere mortals, lmao. Perhaps thinking I would get what was being presented was a bit too high of an expectation. I never even heard of “engineering”. Perhaps you could enlighten us all to its processes. Maybe please tell us about DMEDI, DMAIC, ISO, and SPC. I will now withhold my opinion on this new vehicle until I at least get to see it in action. I refuse to be an apologist to a company especially before the product has been experienced. I agree, the team has been doing a fabulous job at rolling with the punches. The added complexity of the design and likely added costs add more steps to the manufacturing process. Everything that’s been presented has been changed all but the appearance. I’m looking forward to final testing & pricing. I do hope the team doesn’t disappoint as your comment has.

[@tskogen6905]

I think that the reduction of unsprung weight should really help with ride quality, stability and handling. The single motor I expect will move weight forward but also inboard. It may not be as much weight as one might think with simpler electrical and cooling for motor. I think the car that they plan to deliver to me will be so far superior to the one that I was expecting when I paid my deposit. I will miss torque vectoring and all wheel drive but they were not in my original order specifications. Efficiency is my ultimate goal and I expect the new launch edition to be more efficient than the all wheel drive with hub motors.

[@jumpingtree7521]

Aptera is now a standard electric car with a standard electric drivetrain. The Question is: Why stick with the 3 Wheel Design as it now offers no benefits. Creating all the new Prototyp parts from scratch will take a lot of time and money. This 12 Year old Concept Car seems now to be running behind the state of Art of the International Electric Car Industry....

[@dougstevens6179]

Shouldn't they be providing a completed PI build for the Pebble Beach event?

[@fotoguru222]

There is no completed PI build yet, and there won't be for several more months. That will be PI-4 and later.

[@robertwakeman1679]

Don’t want rendering. Show me the the PI on the test track it’s Aug. 15th

[@seasong7655]

I'm still a bit shocked that the motors were changed this late in the development. They also did tests for their earlier suspension.

[@kayakcrazy4883]

I wounder if Roush Performance provided design input for the suspension. Would be nice to mention if they did.

[@wingsounds13]

I suspect that the overall suspension geometry is close to the Rousch design, though the change details were done by an Italian partner.

[@ireakhavok]

The steering geometry is probably better on the new renders. As it hit bumps or get's compressed it now has more camber, which increases ability to corner and not lose traction or tip.

[@JayGrant-hi5ms]

The geometry isn’t changed much, if at all.

[@williamquemuel7824]

Engineering changes like this are major. This delays production. Drawings, supplier chains, and assembly are affected etc…. Sounds like the Elio with their engine changes. You reset testing and validation back to zero.

[@gr8dvd]

One additional observation, consistent with your take… shocks now terminated and secured to chassis with metal ring (near vehicle’s center) whereas before terminated on beefier, chassis cross member.

[@DCGreenZone]

Looks like Leon lent a hand. 😂

[@billsmith5960]

It's interesting they are doing wholesale changes this late in the game. Shows that the Aptera 2.0 and 2.5 was actually never ready and still a work in progress. Here we are at 3.0. Best part is this is a rendering and so far no real parts to be seen. Since all of the previous testing was a waste of time and resources, I do wonder, will they be throwing this through all of that testing? Remember, they will be doing a million miles of testing and crash testing three of them. It's a fact as I heard Chris Anthony say that. When he says things, you can take it to the bank.

[@casylong8383]

doing something and announcing it to the public are very different things. Your guesses are just that.

[@billsmith5960]

@@casylong8383 - Remember, Aptera is the most transparent company ever. So these changes that are this major should have been known for long before they were released then. Transparency doesn’t mean, tell the public 6 months down the road as to what we are actually going to do.

[@casylong8383]

@@billsmith5960 transparency as defined by you is just that.

[@brianrosenlof388]

I'm now hoping that they make the front solar panel easily removable. Looks like it will be necessary to access those struts for replacement. Though if they do make it easily removable, changing the struts may end up being simpler than in the original design, where you might've had a difficult time shimmying it around the frame. I do agree that the overall design does look a bit more complicated, and it looks like there are now a couple of additional bushings that might need replacement down the line.

[@DemaGeek]

The nose solar panel is adhesive mounted (as are the others) so it's more like a windshield replacement. The front hood is hinged and opens with a latch, however.

[@lancedoyle5026]

I think shock replacement is not going to be an issue. In 1970, shocks lasted 20k miles. My 2015 Outback has 210k on the original ones and they are just fine.

[@harriettanthony7352]

OK! a question, whose answer is future---did the front wheel base width change from 84inches?

[@lamarrharding4776]

Bringing the motor inboard, why. Not the brakes to, lowering unsprung weight.

[@TogetherinParis]

"Fewer pieces" and "fewer points of failure" not "less pieces" nor "less points of failure". Less is for continuous goods, like "less flour", "less salt", or "less water." Use "fewer" with discrete parts.

[@johnreeves7261]

I learned something today! Thanks.

[@GullWingInnMoclips]

The improper use of the word "less" instead of "fewer" is grating, but people who don't get the difference most likely never will. It is a very common bit of bad English.. which reinforces the misuse...

[@speciesofspaces]

Maybe you all recall here but if the chassis is flat and the body is still curved then what do they have in that space between the two if the "belly pan cooling" is not happening any longer?

[@ritchiehornak3917]

…and all I want is a simple, easy to understand commuter that’s fun. The layers of tech, number of options and all the changes are not making me feel confident in getting this out of my reservation anymore.

[@AM-bw7hv]

The new design and old design are completely different. I thought they were just changing minor things. That's not minor.

[@gr8dvd]

The motor/drivetrain change was major and predictably rippling effect… most notably the suspension. I’ll defer to others (& validation testing) as to whether this is good/better but no doubt necessary.

[@SkyBalkan]

What is next,fourth wheel?

[@montanaerdoc]

Let the positive spin begin.

[@restonthewind]

A change of this scope, with only CG renders to show for it, doesn't bode well for deliveries in 2025 ... Combined with the failure of Fisker and Electrameccanica Solo and earlier failures like the Sono Sion and the Lightyear0, this change at this stage can't encourage large investors either. My fingers are still crossed, but I'm developing calluses ...

[@simsas25]

is there a production car that people can buy ??

[@artboymoy]

2025 is the earliest any of us will really see it. Over 47K reservations, so they're probably looking at 2026 -2028....

[@rbarlow]

So many changes in the eve of a supposed PI build says desperation. The changes cascade. Engine change-> chassis changes-> suspension changes-> handling changes…. and on and on. Earlier track testing and design work may have been wasted. Drip, drip, drip as the cash continues to flow. Hoping I am wrong.

[@TheScottShepard]

I doubt the time and effort was wasted. In fact, they may have internally decided that they needed to redesign the suspension even if they hadn’t changed the motors. Every development campaign provides a lot of learning opportunities.

[@gr8dvd]

@@TheScottShepard A major redesign decision withheld for months is counter to the "transparency" narrative…. can’t be both.

[@lsh3rd]

This has been in the works for over a year... it's hardly on the eve of a PI build.

[@DavidHendry]

@@lsh3rd yet Chris was pumping Elaphe motors up until recently, like a few months ago on you tube videos. While it may be absolutely necessary to ditch the IWM due to Elaphe being unable to meet production demands or price targets, still not clear on the exact reason, the lack of transparency on this decision is alarming. This is a major redesign very late in the game. Aptera needs to sell vehicles ASAP, so I hope this works out.

[@andromedach]

I cannot find the comment but someone claimed they are using an open wheel differential. Having an open differential front wheel drive configuration may present a real challenge to suspension tuning. This should make Chris M's passion for jerking the wheel in the parking lot swiftly changing directions very interesting. The issue of course if wheel loading while turning and in corners and four wheel cars can offset some of this with their rear wheels but Aptera doesn't have that option. I put the complex suspension linkages down to one thing, they cannot afford any changes to the mold formed pieces. I would not expect all we see in this render as being final. If the pedals changed it may simply be because it was a money issue and they are looking at the low hanging fruit to save money. I am really curious if they paid to have their custom steering wheel created. You should ask them about the pedals and steering wheel.

[@weekend-flyer]

None of this matters because it's just a concept design. If these are changed does it need retesting of all parts? So start from square one or can they make the car without testing this design. I know nothing about this subject

[@robertkirchner7981]

The power management unit attached to the motor looks pretty hard to access.

[@davidtiemeyer7580]

I would have thought the whole motor/reducer/inverter assembly would have been flipped end for end so that the inverter could have been on top for easier access.

[@StephenWhite55]

@@davidtiemeyer7580 The top of this assembly will be the least-accessible part of it, due to the other systems installed around it. Generally, the underside of a modern car is the way 'in' (using a lift, in a 'proper' repair shop), and Aptera's design fits with this manufacturing principle.

[@CommanderMaga]

@@StephenWhite55 You got me thinking about how we're going to put a three-wheeled vehicle on a traditional repair shop lift.... 🤔 Also, will the lower section of the aerodynamic shell open up easily to allow us inside? How is it attached? Future Aptera mechanics want to know....🤨

[@sturmeko]

More parts not necessary means less robust and more prone to failure. One badly designed part will be less reliable than 100 well designed parts.

[@GullWingInnMoclips]

What the hell are you talking about... "more parts"? You must be one of those self-made engineers who thinks hot water makes ice cubes faster than cold water.

[@sturmeko]

@@GullWingInnMoclips I'm sorry if my comment made you uncomfortable. To clarify, with "more parts" I was referring to Steve's concern about Aptera's new suspension design having more moving parts compared with old suspension design.

[@GullWingInnMoclips]

@@sturmeko You're incapable of making me uncomfortable, although you do make me laugh with derision. Your comment was ludicrous and had nothing to do with the engineering of the Aptera.

[@sturmeko]

@@GullWingInnMoclips Well, I'm glad it made you laugh 😄

[@cyberpunk1971]

I know I am late to the train on this but why is there a frame? I though we were using a reinforced carbon fiber tub for the body. Using a frame just adds cost on top of the expensive tub. So wonder this car is getting priced out of most individuals price range. I really doubt the weight is staying on track. All these off the shelf parts should have made the price go down

[@GullWingInnMoclips]

Obviously you are an expert on vehicle manufacture and Aptera should be listening to you! Impressive! Might help to actually go back and do some research and you will find there was always a frame planned for the Aptera... for obvious reasons.

[@edwinschaap5532]

This engine change f*cked up the whole design. 🙁

[@Carl_in_AZ]

Why did they add a cover over the back wheel?

[@JayGrant-hi5ms]

That’s a *great* question!

[@wingsounds13]

Probably to reduce mud accumulation inside the rear suspension cavity. There may also be other benefits that I'm not thinking of at the moment.

[@Carl_in_AZ]

@@wingsounds13@wingsounds13 In the gama model, they used the vehicle's body instead of adding another fender.

[@DemaGeek]

Another reason might be so that mud and water do not splatter directly onto the body, transferring noise into the cabin.

[@JayGrant-hi5ms]

Mud, snow….but that’s not a new concern unless there’s something new to protect in this space.

[@ZadesLegacy]

My only concern about the redesign is wheather or not this changes how repair friendly the vehicle is. Everything else is irrelevant if it still works and lasts as originally intended.

[@PandaKnight52]

Repair ability would be more down to the support Aptera gives the car long term. I have seen other comment these changes especially suspension seems more inline with existing super cars so not a complete custom but. I think that would make it a more repairable vehicle because there would be easier access to parts.

[@pi.actual]

What I am seeing is a vehicle that's probably gonna cost $70,000 by the time they are done.

[@GaryGreenway]

The thought of all these suspension bushings bushings worries me from a maintenance perspective. I hope they use some high quality PU bushings instead of the cheaper, shorter lived OEM quality. Having had to replace many of these things over the decades, I know how difficult it is to find proper sized parts to fit. Guess I'll order a replacement set after I get the vehicle. Hopefully, they won't age out on the spare parts shelf.