Aqua-Pure Scale Inhibition System: 2 Years Later

Time to change out the filter cartridge on the 3M Scale Inhibition System installed ahead of the tankless water heater.
While the instructions for this cartridge recommend changing every 3-12 months, I went about 25 months on this first time. My hot water use is fairly low, using at less than 1 therm (29 KWH) of natural gas per month.
I did have a chance to speak with a representative from 3M who reached out to me as a result of this video. He was interested in how I found this system to with with my tankless water heater. In my experience, it does seem to work well and has reduced hard water deposits in my shower.
I also asked him if something like this would work on a refrigerator type ice maker (which I had to replace in 2020 due to hard water deposits) and he said it probably wouldn't do a lot in that application. He had a background in the icemaker business and said the the "white" icemakers in refrigerators work by freezing the entire volume of water in the mold. This leads to minerals being forced out of the water as it freezes. It's these minerals that cause the non-stick coating on those type of icemakers to wear out over time. The Siliphos material mainly works my bonding to dissolved minerals and keeps them from attaching to hot surfaces and instead stay dissolved and in the water. My takeaway was that this product is most useful on a hot water system. It can be used in a whole house application and would help with water deposits forming in things like coffee makers, teapots, etc.
My take is that the biggest "bang for the buck" comes with the AquaPure cartridge feeding the water heater. That way 100% of the water flowing through the cartridge is for the hot water system where the Siliphos treatment is most effective. As these cartridges are fairly expensive, especially if replacing them every 3 months or so, it makes sense to use them where they are most effective. For my coffee/espresso maker, I'm looking into getting more of a commercial type coffee maker water filter for my water dispenser (to replace the generic activated charcoal filter).
3M AP-430SS Hot Water System Protector and AP-431 cartridge:
www.aquapurefilters.com/store...
Some pages describing polyphosphates/Siliphos:
www.philsplumbing.com/siliphos/#
www.filterwaterdirect.com/inf...
www.webquestions.co/questions...
Links for AP431 replacement cartridges, US$33.25 retail (Jul2019 price on 3M store):
Genuine 3M cartridges:
www.supplyhouse.com/Aqua-Pure...
www.allfilters.com/wholehouse...
amzn.to/2G10KRh
AquaCrest clone, about half the price of the 3M cartridge:
amzn.to/2FZojtX
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And as always, thanks for watching
Intro:
Louisiana Fairytale by Austin Rogers
web.archive.org/web/201704022...

[@DeusTex-Mex]

They work great on tank heaters too. Saved me a lot of money compared to a water softener.

[@The4Crawler]

Thanks for sharing that. I never thought of that back when I replaced the old tank type heater back in 2000. Another good idea I've heard is to replace the cheap plastic drain valve with a quality brass valve.

[@mistercochella1044]

Thank you so much for your video. I'm learning so much as a first-time homeowner and videos like yours are a huge help! I really appreciate the price recommendation!

[@The4Crawler]

Glad to help!

[@ManojJain-gn7bb]

Good to see inside cartridge...very well explained 👏

[@The4Crawler]

Thank you! Cheers! When I first installed that I wondered how could the water flow through it with just the one connection at the top.

[@theMekanik]

Thanx for the into!

[@dugfern]

Thanks for the help.

[@The4Crawler]

Happy to help. So far I think this scale inhibitor working. In another year and a half I should be able to confirm that as that'll be 3 years of use of my shower head and it used to need an overnight soak in vinegar to descale it after that period of time.

[@bradskaife6083]

So far so good here too

[@waynesmith8961]

Great Video. Thank You. I Purchased These Filters AP-431 On Amazon. Pack of 3 For $80,00.

[@The4Crawler]

Yes, getting a 3 pack is a good idea, saves money over buying 1 at a time.

[@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301]

As I understand it, the degradation of this dosing feeder depends on the amount of dissolved crystals in the canister, meaning this was good for another 10 yrs given the amount of remaining pellets in there.

[@The4Crawler]

That may be the case, although I think there might be 2 styles of these type of scale inhibitors. In some, there are pure crystals of the siliphos material that dissolve over time. Those type are often designed to be refilled periodically. I spoke with a person at 3M a while ago and he indicated these cartridges used porous spheres with the siliphos material in the pores. This way, as it slowly dissolved, the surface area remained the same and the concentration was more uniform over the service life. I have one cartridge I've been running for about 3 years that I want to open up when I replace it. Will see if there's any change from the previous one.

[@idontwantcorporateretaliat6301]

@@The4Crawler interesting. I saw a few other vids after making this comment and the refillable types seem to service after reaching halfway. So by testing it makes sense that after a certain mass reduction, the concentration is insufficient. Instead of opening, you could dry out and weight vs. new....though ultimately, testing water at intervals would likely tell you the effectiveness/life vs weight of remaining agent.

[@MrBod4life]

great video and content. I am a auto detailer and I have a RO water system to prevent water spots forming during washing. Will this help extend the life of RO/Deionizer water systems? I was thinking of using this as a pre filter. What do you think? thanks!

[@The4Crawler]

Not sure if it work help in that sort of application. Might want to contact Aqua Pure directly and ask them about that: www.aquapurefilters.com/contact/

[@tabati7475]

Beautiful voice

[@frio_niel]

Very informative video! I'm planning on buying a similar system for my house, however, I have a couple of questions that I was hoping you could help me answer. I live in a tropical country, so we don't need water heater systems; I was wondering if this kind of filter will still help me with scale buildup. Also, how was the scale buildup on the walls/tiles, taps, and other surfaces after the years?

[@The4Crawler]

It should help, I think that is the original intention of this scale inhibitor. This unit works by suspending the scale forming minerals in the water, so as long as the treated water can flow out and down a drain, it works well. I've found that this works very well on my hot water side. I've now passed 5 years w/o needing to unclog the shower head and no signs of hard water deposits and rust building up in the shower stall like I used to get every few years.

[@umeshgidnavar8196]

Thank you for detailed explanation. I like to know if this product really works against scales in Geyser, on bathroom fittings and taps, floor tiles etc?

[@The4Crawler]

So far I think it does work. About 1.5 years ago, I descaled my old shower head and that usually needed to be done every 2-3 years. It is still showing no signs of hard water deposits. I'll check it again in another 12-18 months and that should tell how well the filter is working. Also, have not seen any buildup on the shower walls and floor since that was last cleaned with citric acid about the same time the shower head was cleaned.

[@thedavesofourlives1]

if your water tends on the alkaline side, yes

[@gangdoggviper]

Clearifying video, always thought these filters will soften water so no calc will remain in the water

[@The4Crawler]

Yes, this is a different take on the problem. Instead of removing the minerals, it keeps the minerals in the water but prevents them from precipitating out to form scale. Only works if there is a flow of water, though. If you let a pan of this water evaporate, there will still be mineral deposits left, just like untreated water.

[@CUEBALL424]

Great video! Great explanation! I installed my tankless water heater about 1 year ago and didnt put one of these in. Just yesterday I flushed the water heater and installed one of these on the inlet to the heater. It took about 5 gallons of water flushed through my water heater to get clear water to come out after I ran the Flow Rite product through it to descale it. Ill have to see if next year there is less black debris that comes out when I flush it again in a year. I also have a whole house sediment filter, and a whole house Culligan softener. Very thankful you cut this open after use to see what it looks like inside. I was a bit skeptical it would do anything, I guess Ill have to see in a year.

[@The4Crawler]

Thanks for the comment. Will be interesting to hear if you notice any differences with the next descaling. So far I think mine is working well, the tankless flushes have been fairly clear.

[@franklinalonzo3657]

You prolly dont give a shit but does someone know a tool to get back into an Instagram account..? I was stupid lost my account password. I would love any assistance you can offer me!

[@abelizaiah1275]

@Franklin Alonzo instablaster ;)

[@franklinalonzo3657]

@Abel Izaiah thanks for your reply. I found the site thru google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.

[@franklinalonzo3657]

@Abel Izaiah it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy:D Thank you so much, you saved my ass !

[@scienceZZZ]

Nice video, thanks. My question is do the pellets actually dissolve? I just pulled my filter after a year and when I shake it, I can hear it's still full of pellets. This would seem to imply that I could increase my change interval, but only if the pellets actually dissolve. Again, thanks for the video!

[@The4Crawler]

I don't think the pellets completely dissolve. They have the active ingredient incorporated into the pellets to increase the surface area. That material somehow reacts with the minerals in the water. I'm not sure if it dissolves into the water and binds with the minerals or if the minerals attach to the pellets.

[@Paul-dk8yp]

Isn’t the change interval 6 to 12 months? It’s probably easier to change this once a year instead of buying a new coffee machine and gallons of scrubbing bubbles cleaner lol?

[@mavirek]

I noted this was "designed to reduce hard-water build-up on appliances that use hot water"; so does that mean I can add this to my PVC pipes on the front porch in Central Florida (>100ºF) for my whole house (2.5 bath condo)? Will it inhibit water pressure? I have no idea what my optimal water pressure should be, but the holes from where the water exits seem really small. Have you any confidence that the cheaper AquaCrest knock off filters are just as good?

[@The4Crawler]

The unit does have 3/4" water fittings and they list a flow rate of 10 GPM. Treating all the water vs. just the hot, will likely use up filters faster. I have picked up some of the Aqua Crest cartridges and plan to install one at my next replacement, so time will tell. They seem to be the same construction as the 3M units.

[@Atum_Ra]

So if you had this I line with a pre and post filter where would you put it in the chain? Im actually building out a setup that I just start piecing together and I put a pre filter > Aqua Pure > 3M whole home filter. Now after listening to your explanation of how it works I'm almost thinking I should be going from pre/ filter > Whole home filter > then have the Aqua Pure last in the chain? Because if it's supposed to "coat the pipes" if I have a filter after it that would remove whatever the aqua Pure is supposed to do right? Thanks for the video, I like to see how things work :)

[@The4Crawler]

Likely at the end of the other filters, that would keep the Aqua Pure media from getting clogged up with anything that the other filters are removing. The A-P is really best used before the water heater so it only treats the hot water to prevent scale buildup in the hot water side unless you have issues with scale buildup in your cold water side.

[@robertmatz2925]

I had this AP Scale Inhibition system installed three years ago. Every time I replace a cartridge I shake out the water and shake it. Always something remaining inside. Don't know how long they should last either. I have very hard water and am wondering if the holes in the cartridge are large enough to accommodate the excessive lime in water. I just replaced a cartridge and I am thinking of drilling out the intake and small output holes and trying again. My coils are completely covered with lime and one even broke apart. I think I need more of the inhibitor in the water. I would love to see the cartridge empty or very little on the coils when I replace it. What you think???

[@The4Crawler]

My understanding is that the active material is only part of the beads inside the cartridge. That is there will always be something remaining inside. I think the bead material is somewhat porous and the siliphos material is on the over the surface and inside the pores of the beads. I suppose you could try your modification and see if there's any change in how it works. Although that may only allow higher flow rate and less time for the siliphos to enter the water. Another option might be to add a 2nd cartridge in-line.

[@mavirek]

Have you done a video on your citric acid flush of the water heater?

[@The4Crawler]

You bet: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpjGp3aoq7CBmZo

[@doxx2427]

Great video man. My kinda stuff

[@The4Crawler]

Thanks for the visit

[@AgentOffice]

How is it

[@Enrx90]

Nice video ... what about of i but it after water heater ?? Is going to hold the hot water ? Cause my heater have calcium micron !

[@The4Crawler]

Not sure how well it would work after the water heater. Generally recommended to install before the water is heated to prevent the calcium minerals from forming in the first place: www.waterfilters.net/aqua-pure-ap430ss-hot-water-system-protector.html

[@illfrom]

Thx man.

[@The4Crawler]

Any time

[@billh215]

I installed one of these 20 months ago. I had read that the scale inhibitor cartridges can be made less effective by sediment and other impurities in the water, so I installed an Aqua-Pure 5 micron filter upstream of the scale inhibitor. (The 5-micron filter is installed to filter all the water we use in our house. We are seeing some benefits from that in our cold water, like less (mineral?)build-up in our dog's glass water bowl.) No, this cannot be installed downstream of the water heater. The manufacturer (3M) states a maximum inlet water temp of 100°F.

[@The4Crawler]

Good points. I had only used mine before the water heater, installed per the mfg. instructions. You want the treated water to feed into the heat exchanger.

[@cdoublejj]

i figured as much! why the hell is iSpring selling a siliphons sediment filter, it should go after the sediment and whole house filters and before the water heater. that way you aren't coating your other filters with siliphos.

[@justtestingonce]

When the water heats, it separates the minerals, wouldn’t a micron filter make sense down stream of the hot water to capture the white mineral residue. I know a guy commented he did that for his washing machine hot water line.

[@billh215]

@@justtestingonce I don't know if an additional filter downstream of the water heater would be beneficial; that question is outside of my knowledge of the topic. What I do know is that the 5-micron filter I installed (3M Aqua-Pure AP801) is rated for a maximum water temperature of 100°F, so it cannot be installed downstream of the water heater. You would need to use a filter rated for hot water. Just to be clear, any filter installed downstream of the water heater should be in addition to a 5-micron filter installed upstream of the scale inhibitor. The filter upstream of the scale inhibitor prevents sediment (and other particles in the water) from reducing the effectiveness and lifespan of the scale inhibitor cartridge.

[@justtestingonce]

@@billh215 yes, it’s called a hot water spin down filter and is more expensive. When the hot water separates the calcium, the filter will capture the calcium flakes. The siliphos beads just coat the metal pipes but dont remove the calcium deposits which separated from the hotwater. If u don’t mind flushing your tank every 6 months, you could just use the hot water spin down filter to capture the separated calcium. On another note, I don’t understand why don’t people have water boilers to soften water because that essentially what happens once boiled instead of those sodium and bleach water softners.

[@lankimo23]

Thanks for your video and explanations with visual aids. Very well done. We are looking for a cartridge that can be refilled with a Cat Resin. If we don't find one we may use this AP431 cartridge. We saw one once but can't find it online now.

[@The4Crawler]

I've not seen a refillable cartridge, but if you do run across the one you found earlier, be sure to post a link to it. It's always kind of silly to toss out the whole thing when you could just refill the active ingredient.

[@lankimo23]

@@The4Crawler We will certainly share that info when next we come across it. As well, other cartridge types may be repurposed to do the same thing. What do you think about repurposing of existing cartridges?

[@The4Crawler]

@@lankimo23 For this application, as long as you have a cartridge that has the single screw on fitting with the internal tubing, chamber and filter medium to keep the active material inside, it should be able to work. All you would need is that the lower chamber portion unscrew so it could be emptied and refilled.

[@lankimo23]

@@The4Crawler Ok, understood. Unfortunately, we need to get the dimensions (ID & OD) of the cartridge selected for repurposing.

[@cdoublejj]

i wonder if you cut the cap off if you could refill it. sealing it would suck unless you could glue on a PVC threaded cap or something. i bet siliphos by the bag is cheaper than an entire cartridge. EDIT or couple of small side ports.

[@The4Crawler]

That's a good idea. Looks like that stuff runs around US$60/kg, not sure how much is in a cartridge. Maybe next time I change one out, I'll cut it open, weight the contents and the see if it's close to the size of a std. PVC fitting.

[@oldtimeengineer26]

looks like little diamonds to bad they were not. Thanks for showing

[@The4Crawler]

Yes, that's for sure, seems to never work out like that. They look a lot like pearls. They seem to be hard but split easily with a knife blade. There are lots of pores through the pellets and they have a mottled appearance. Mostly clear with patches of white which I assume is the polyphosphate.

[@michailtagami239]

?Turn BBQ briquettes into crystal carbon with water pressure?...???...work on it...wonder if an earthquake will release carbonized gems...imagine walking through rubble and spotting sparkles, now that's a cache...on second thought, let everything stay underground for another billion years...♀

[@mavirek]

Siliphos or Polyphosphate, I think are the same thing. But how these are put in contact with the water line seems different: Aqua-Pure AP431 Hot Water Scale Inhibitor for AP430SS claims just some of the water will drop in, pick up and carry off the substance; while MaxWater 10" Standard Whole House Siliphos Anti-Scale Water Filter seems to have more contact with the water in a typical Big Blue factor. But the former form/design seems more popular for Siliphos/PHO than a typical canister filter. So what can you say to help me choose--price, longevity, leaks, availability, unknowns? Thank you, truly.

[@The4Crawler]

I've only used the Aqua-Pure system, but the one you reference looks to be good as well. I like the ease of changing cartridges in the system I have. No tools required and so far have had no leaks or other issues. The A-P system would likely not be ideal for a whole house install. The other thing to look at is the replacement cost of the cartridges. Some systems have a refillable Siliphos container where you can just empty and refill the container as needed. That type of setup would have the lowest cost over time.

[@thedavesofourlives1]

my interpretation of the AP430 literature is that's it's a dosing, not full flow system.

[@AnanyaGupta]

Thank you! This was s very informative video. I set this up last night at the main water inlet to the house since 3M advertises it as a whole house scale inhibitor. It should this reduce scale in hot and cold water across the board 🤞

[@The4Crawler]

Glad it was helpful! I spoke to a rep at 3M a while back and he mentioned that this system is most effective on the hot water system, but it can be used for the whole house. I asked specifically about using this for an icemaker and he said it probably would not do much in that application. It does seem to have worked on my hot water system, though. Shower has remained deposit-free since I last removed hard water deposits from that area.

[@AnanyaGupta]

@@The4Crawler this is really helpful information and I feel you ought to add it to your description above and potentially as video annotation do viewers read it (to late to put in your voiceover).

[@The4Crawler]

@@AnanyaGupta Good point, added a section to the video description. Will also be doing an updated video on this in a year or so once I have about 3 years of use on the shower head and shower stall since they were last cleaned of hard water deposits.

[@AnanyaGupta]

​@@The4Crawler Wow you're fast! BTW, reading "He had a background in the icemaker business and said the the "white" icemakers in refrigerators work by freezing the entire volume of water in the mold. This leads to minerals being forced out of the water as it freezes. It's these minerals that cause the non-stick coating on those type of icemakers to wear out over time." I now need to give you more context behind the primary reason of installing it in my house. The whole house humidifier. I installed an inline scale filter on the cold water delivery line to the humidifier and I was hoping that this would further reduce the scale in the humidifier. But obviously, that won't be the case and all the scale will only be removed by the inline scale filter in front of the humidifier since this 3M devices works on a chemical process and not physical removal. I am going to paste this information for others looking to use this in front of the humidifier as it will not help and link them back to you video 😉

[@The4Crawler]

@@AnanyaGupta I suppose it's worth trying out. I suspect in a humidifier, not all the water evaporates, so perhaps the minerals will stay suspended in the water leaving the humidifier and that may help. This is similar to how the commercial "clear" icemakers work, as the 3M guy explained. In those, water flows over a chilled plate and a small amount freezes (like an icicle forms). Minerals are pushed out of the freezing water, but stay dissolved in the remaining water and are later filtered out or discharged. That's why the ice you get at a bar or restaurant is clear.

[@williamlewis3982]

So will this help keep buildup on my shower walls down?

[@The4Crawler]

It's supposed to help with that. I cleaned all the old water staining off the shower stall last summer (had a leaking cold water tap that left a lot of deposits) and so far it's staying clean. Time will tell. With the tankless water heater, I only use hot water (set to 100F) for shower, so it only gets the treated water.

[@scienceZZZ]

I've noticed a slight reduction in lime scale on my shower heads. Remember that the cartridge is only treating the hot water and not cold, so there is a larger volume of untreated cold water flowing from your shower heads.

[@AnanyaGupta]

@@scienceZZZ they advertise this as a while house scale inhibitor - so why didn't you install it in the main cold water inlet pipe? This is what I did and hope it helps across the house.

[@scienceZZZ]

@@AnanyaGupta I get much longer cartridge life installing ahead of the tankless water heater. This way I'm not treating water unnecessarily. Also, I prefer to drink unfiltered cold water even though they claim it is a food safe additive.

[@AnanyaGupta]

@@scienceZZZ That makes sense.

[@bryanpigg1094]

Don’t think I’d wanna drink silica or phosphorus what do you think

[@The4Crawler]

It's actually a natural, food grade ingredient: www.purewatergazette.net/blog/siliphos/ And is also used as a supplement: www.mitoq.com/blog/blog/ingredient-spotlight-siliphos-milk-thistle That said, I normally don't consume any of the water out of my water heater. It's only used for washing dishes, clothes and for showers.

[@thenewfire]

It's a million times safer than what cities are putting in all drinking water.

[@thedavesofourlives1]

many use it also@@thenewfire