ILLIYAN NASTASE: Half-Eldar, Half-Ultramarine, All Retro! | Warhammer 40,000 Retrospective

[@gkiyo]

Just realized Ian is saying "ultra space marines" to emphasize that it's two words in this older source, but I'm definitely calling them that from now on. "going to play your Ultra Space Marines again today? I hear Robert is good this edition." etc

[@ArbitorIan]

I could have said Ultra Dash Marines but this way was funnier

[@alastaircollins1145]

Part of me's finding it funny that, by just calling them Ultramarines, like the colour, instead of Ultra [Space] Marines, this might have made them harder to copyright once that became GWs priority

[@Gumlass1]

@@alastaircollins1145 copyright wasn't such a consideration in 1987. The authors knew the 40k universe was a remix of other contemporary stories and ideas.

[@alastaircollins1145]

@@Gumlass1 yeah, I know. hence "once that became GW's priority"

[@Prophetofthe8thLegion]

Well on SM1 they are called Adeptus Astartes Ultra so debatably that is indeed the correct way to say it.

[@JonathanakaPotter]

One thing would complete this character's arc - if during one of the novels he used his psychic power to make him appear as a UM Librarian to the Imperials. "Me? Oh I'm just an Ultramarine Librarian. And an Astropath. Oh, and I did some work for the Imperial Navy. And the Dark Angels. Hmmm? Oh, I'm afraid that's classified....."

[@ArbitorIan]

PERFECT!

[@mariusdragoe2888]

Like how in Hades (the video game) the story that Zagreus is a reborn Dionysus was just a prank they played on Orpheus.

[@Hopesfallout]

@@mariusdragoe2888 What? Can you elaborate? I like to learn more about Greek mythology, I know the names but can't connect the dots.

[@mariusdragoe2888]

@@Hopesfallout It the video game Hades the protagonist is Zagreus who is the son of Hades. Zagreus is a real but quite obscure figure in Greek myth with contradictory stories about him. In one of these stories he's actually the son of Zeus who gets torn apart by titans and from his remains he's reborn as Dionysus, the god of wine. Both Zagreus and Dionysus are characters in the game so they can't be the same person but there's an ingame interaction where Zagreus and Dionysus tell Orpheus how they're the same guy reborn as a prank and he believes them.

[@Hopesfallout]

@@mariusdragoe2888 Ah that's sick, I missed that! Thx.

[@fabriciobraccini7180]

This type of video really shows why imo Ian is one of the best and most educated 40k channels

[@garryame4008]

IMO he's the best, or at least, he's my personal favorite.

[@erike5865]

So fun fact there actually are human eldar hybrids in modern 40k! In the third Fabius Bile book there's a brief mention that a generation of "gland hounds" (genetically modified humans who are designed to hunt Space Marines) had some "Aldari strain" in them, which helped them be agile. The Fabius Bile series isn't afraid to cross some unspoken lore lines and embraces the idea that 40k as a setting is changing all the time.

[@ArbitorIan]

Ooooo. I've read that and I totally missed that bit! Josh Reynolds should have called one Illyan

[@philvalz]

Okay, well, but if they are a Fabius Bile creation, they are certainly not a regular occurrence.

[@erike5865]

@@philvalz Out of all Fabius's creations, they probably are the closest. All of Fabius's "New Men" are able to breed, as Fabius wants them to spread throughout the galaxy so they can be the new face of humanity and his lasting legacy. This group in particular was being entrusted to the Alpha Legion to help infiltrate the Schola Progenium and Fabius mentions to the Harrowmaster that they "breed-true". This took place in M37, which means that if the AL was successful with their plan, the offspring could have been spread across the galaxy in the thousands of years since then, aided and placed into positions of power by the Imperium itself.

[@helios7170]

Isn’t there some hint in the Fulgrim novel that Fabulous Bob is using alien dna to “enhance” the Emperor’s Children? Big Heresy!

[@IamLertimo]

@@helios7170 He already did it during the Horus Heresy - using material from the Laer xenos race to turn Eidelon and others of the Emperor's Children into the first noise marines.

[@snip105]

Thank you for sharing my Garry’s mod picture 16:59 "Eldar Farseer of Ulthwe" Much appreciated

[@ArbitorIan]

Hey it's SNIP105! Thanks!

[@Gh0stClown]

When people talk about how most of the silly bits from RT got removed over the years, I think it's often overlooked that the name of the posterboy space marine chapter is still technically a pun.

[@101Mant]

Some stuff never got mentioned again, but I can't think of much that was actually flat out removed. It was more of a tone shift, 2nd edition onwards took itself much more seriously. Makes sense with all the novels and books, I doubt many of the writers could successfully combine the dark parts of the setting with the silliness.

[@ArbitorIan]

I'd argue that it's GOT more silly in recent years and that's been achieved really well. Trazyn, Cawl, the Ork novels are all great.

[@BertramMoranda]

@@ArbitorIan yeah I think it's more that there is an era (clearly starting with 4th edition, don't know where I'd end it) where it took itself too seriously.

[@beregondibram2985]

Oh I wouldnt say it was serious- we still had grotesque gun loading on warships, Necromunda and so on but it definitely was played straight, now it has much more "wink wink nudge nudge" style humour​@@BertramMoranda

[@ObsceneSuperMatt]

At least we all know, there have always been half-elves.

[@Keram-io8hv]

13:05 forget Lion, I want to hear misadventures of Lieutennan Djinn Ntonnik

[@ArbitorIan]

They could have at least made him a heresy character!

[@earnestwanderer2471]

What about Captain Whizz-gee Sauer?

[@Keram-io8hv]

@@earnestwanderer2471 Going to name my second child after him

[@Cyber_Zombie]

Very tempted to kitbash a model of him for my own Ultramarines 😄

[@andymiller277]

I think I speak for everyone when I say: DO IT!!!

[@101Mant]

I'd love to see someone do the whole gang, painted in retro style in MK6 armour.

[@nathanhunt6173]

As someone who has done so I’d strongly recommend it

[@Kingchappo]

I already have, how do I post a photo of him on here?

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

"Nothing is true, everything is canon"

[@tflwulf69]

What I told you Luke was true, from a certain point of view....

[@desolation2438]

It's that type of thinking that empowers these damm tourists, quit it. NOW!!!!!

[@TimothyJohnson-m8m]

Arbitor Ian: the voice of reason.

[@backflipjanuary2891]

This is your reminder that Zoats exist.

[@ITCamefromthePage]

This is why I enjoy Warhammer in general, the shifting elements are so much fun. Great video as always. I love Guy Haley's writing. "So I apologise if my manners seem abrupt, but your company is almost unbearable." is the energy I'm bringing to Thanksgiving this year.

[@samhunter1205]

Lmfao, I too will be borrowing that line, probably with far more frequency than I can get away with 🤣

[@Armageddon2077]

This reminds me a bit of one of the characters in Colonel Shaeffer's 13th Penal Legion called "Grease-Monkey" who is an expert mechanic reputed to be able to maintain, drive and repair any Imperial vehicle in the galaxy. The crime that got him drummed in to the penal legion was stealing a Craftworld Aeldari grav-vehicle belonging to the ambassador of Craftworld Iyanden. Which makes it sound like he popped down one of the many Eldar embassies that undoubtedly most Imperial World have, before stealing vehicle on a whim.

[@MrZauberelefant]

Never thought about it that way.

[@Powoga]

Well, the second edition _Codex Imperialis_ did say that the Eldar "are more often ally than enemy to the imperium", so I guess an embassy isn' out of the question (though the Last Chancer's are more of a third edition thing) That book also lists the unit colour of the Iron Warriors as white and that of the World Eaters as black, and has a whole section dedicated to the old Squats. Fun.

[@Tsotha]

I remember Colonel Shaeffer's Last Chancers and all the eccentric members including Grease-Monkey, he reminded me quite a bit of Skeeter from the old video game "Interstate '76".

[@Aaron-io8vw]

It's possible that during his time with the Dark Angels , Astropath Naastase become fond of Ginan Tonic and Rum ancoke.

[@ArbitorIan]

Who wouldn't?

[@krisisk1]

Tbf after meeting up with Ginan Tonic and Rum ancoke I always end up forgetting and confusing lore during and after. Never understood why 😅

[@CreepingTerror]

I am unreasonably amused by Robert Guilliman

[@ger5956]

Cannon in 40Kis absolutely a thing, they literally have them all over the ships and most buildings. Silly Ian. 😅

[@anotherzingbo]

I like how in that article Marneus Calgar is the leader of the Ultra Marines while being in his 40s. It's also mentioned that despite having all those bionics and power weapons he's not actually taken to the field of battle since he took charge and it sounds like having all his limbs nommed off by tyranids may have given him a touch of PTSD - "and they shall know no fear" hasn't been established yet! 🙂

[@Anghellik9]

Equally as interesting as how much things have changed is how many things have stayed the same. I knew Marneus Calgar has been around for a long time, but I wouldn't have guessed he went all the way back to Rogue Trader

[@ArbitorIan]

He might even be the oldest named character. This was only four months into 40k. Can't remember if that beats Lufgt Huron

[@IamLertimo]

@@ArbitorIan Not sure if you meant oldest named character or 'oldest but still recognisably the same character'? IN either case, on page 27 of Rogue Trader is none other than: Leman Russ! (completely different character of course, but still named as 'founder of Space Wolves' chapter) which also makes Russ the first named character in the W40k universe full stop.

[@olabolob]

Your channel is such a breath of fresh air amidst constant hate on youtube. Cheers

[@ninjacouncilguild]

Holy shit brother somehow addressing the whole Custodes drama without even referencing it or using it as some click bait shit tier video shows a great level of integrity. 10/10 would drink beer with.

[@scotty7671]

Love that Ambuls are a thing that early on and are referenced in some of the Cain novels.

[@soupalex]

they do pop up here and there. iirc the 3rd edition rulebook had a little sketch of one (alongside a necron warrior, an early version of a kroot, a spore mine, and a hrud-which at the time were expected to look like "space skaven", though in this image the face was obscured, and they've more recently been depicted as more insect- or worm-like). you can also recruit a (cybernetically-modified) ambull in necromunda, and the turn-based strategy game "gladius" even has them roaming the map as unaligned enemies/wildlife.

[@joshy7759]

I love old lore. I like references to it in my armies. I feel like following all the painting and marking rules is fun, *and* it makes the exceptions stand out, and 40k is a lot about the exceptions.

[@knocker655]

Outstanding. A perfect reaction to current events without preaching, lecturing or even mentioning ‘it’ directly. 100% the best Warhammer content on KZbin

[@Drac611]

I think he might be a reference to Spock as a Half Human Half [Elf] race. Even the way he greets the Captain in that first paragraph that he's introduced. Even his damned artwork!

[@PavelThorsonos]

With this context I looked up if Leonard Nimoy had some love for Romanian Tennis, but found nothing. The name reference is still a mystery...

[@IamLertimo]

@@PavelThorsonos I suspect it was originally a reference to Illya Kuryakin, the character from the Man from UNCLE, but they needed to change the surname, and Illya is sufficiently similar to Ille that Nastase immediately sprung to mind.

[@Tsotha]

Good call, hadn't thought of that!

[@hannahgeraghty4201]

This feels like a great video to do with the recent custodes lore kerfuffle

[@billdefranza4927]

Ooh, ooh, do Obi-Wan Sherlock Clousseau next!

[@m__y-t-s]

This guy will always be my mental image for Harry Dresden. It's not remotely accurate, but that won't stop me.

[@Gallowglacht]

I'm a big fan of the original treatment of the Ultra Marines and secretly hoped that the Horus Heresy would go back to that. The idea that the original 13th were traitors, and the modern Ultramarines were the result of 10,000 years of atonement. Completely understand why they didn't go that route, but I would have loved it.

[@davidbarko7004]

that’s my headcanon for the current dark angel chapter. I mean why else would they hunt the fallen so hard😅 every legion had traitors during the heresy but only one legion’s traitors got away with cosplaying as loyalists after the heresy, and THATS a secret worth keeping.

[@OldManRogers]

My worry is that in the 41st millennium some idiot scribe will declare that the Arbitor Ian (more known for his moonlighting job as a rembrancer on the ethervox) never existed and was a clerical error!

[@R2-DPOO]

This is great, one of my favourite videos of yours! Thanks!

[@JakkoThePumpkin]

They I've always seen it is that the lore is just a tool to help you craft your own narratives on the table, any new lore doesn't have to be consistent with old lore because it's just a new tool for the players; they can use or ignore it as much as they like.

[@samhunter1205]

Ian subtley wading in on the female custodes 'controversy' without explicitly saying so - love it. Imagine thinking there is such a thing as canon in 40k . . .

[@naughtscribe]

I love that when something like Grav weapons are introduced into the lore as having always been there (at least in the Heresy/30k Era), no one bats an eye. But female custodes?!! Well, that's HERESY! Telling, that. Really shows you what the 40k chud's priorities are.

[@SuperSteelyGlint]

@@naughtscribe Exactly! I was there, 3000 years ago, when RT first came out so when I see the chuds' crying about retcons and lore changes and "gW iS gAsLiGhTiNg Us", I laugh in their faces and ask them why they're not crying about every single piece of lore that has been created since RT was published, given that it's *all* a retcon of RT and it's *all* "gaslighting" by the standards that they're applying to female Custodies...

[@rp7155]

@@naughtscribeexcellent point

[@WilhelmScreamer]

@@naughtscribe doubly funny when it was so nakedly obvious in 6th edition how pushed grav weapons are

[@MidwestMountainMan]

Much more evergreen than wading into the controversy of the month. In a year, nobody will care to watch a video about a past controversy, but there will always be people who'd watch a video about a weird Rogue Trader era dude and how he's changed over time.

[@Skyao]

I never imagined I'd end up enjoying this topic so much!

[@hausdorffspace]

I never noticed the velociraptor-writingdesk next to Calgar in his portrait.

[@101Mant]

It's an early Tyranid. Since they lived in bio space ships they were actually fairly fragile due to low gravity.

[@hausdorffspace]

@@101Mant Yeah, but it has a QUILL sticking out of its head. How are you supposed to pen the definitive treatise of interstellar rapid-response warfare and troop organisation on a tyranid's face? It's a terrible writing surface. EDIT: How embarrassing. I have mixed up Calgar and Guilliman.

[@totalCoolerUsername]

Look at the way he's sitting. That's not his office, that's his bathroom. Bro's even holding toilet paper atm. Must have been an ackward painting session with the chapter master of the Ultramarines.

[@hausdorffspace]

@@totalCoolerUsername I think you are on to something here. That cloak in the background clearly symbolises that he is in his cloakroom, which in the UK means "lavatory", not "a room where you keep cloaks".

[@NotTehJon]

lil ol Calgar on his super space marine loo

[@Steven-qb7vn]

I've read and enjoyed the Dark Imperium trilogy, had absolutely no idea Illiyan was from early 40k. What a great little easter egg that adds a layer of depth to these books. Thanks Ian for once again producing an insightful and interesting video. I love the unreliable narrator method GW use to deal with ret-cons like this instead of other big franchises like StarWars that scrap whole chunks of lore ignoring it ever existed. What a clever way of dealing with ever evolving lore. Thanks, Steve.

[@philhitchings]

This is such a great way to examine the lore and appreciate that even with "eye witness" reports things can be missed or viewed with conscious or unconscious bias. Factor in the deliberate misinformation and propaganda, it's no wonder that anomalies creep in. Winston in 1984 spends his whole working day rewriting the "truth" it's obvious that client media will dominate in the grim dark future.

[@randrazor]

Now that I think about it, it all reminds me a lot about a concept in mathematical proofs. It's far easier to prove a statement false by giving a single counter-example, than it is to rigorously prove a statement true. Like if the statement is something is impossible, it's far simpler to show a single case where it is possible, making the statement false, than to prove its impossibility systematically.

[@m__y-t-s]

"The treacher-legions now banished to the Eye of Terror" is a wonderful bit of writing. Treacher-legions! Amazing.

[@NotTehJon]

are they naughty teachers?

[@thomasparker6124]

11:52 Initially Space Marines (and their Champions!) were only base Toughness 3 in Rogue Trader. I think they had a stat line identical to a Warhammer Fantasy 3E Knight. It got increased in a White Dwarf article (WD 129 September 1990) and reprinted in "Warhammer 40,000 Compilation"* from 1991. This increased Space Marines toughness to 4, added the first iteration of Space Marine special morale rules. Which I think is an interesting reflection of the changing theme of Space Marines you frequently highlight. By the time of the 1E Space Wolves army list in WD156 -157, they very much resembled the same Space Wolves that turned up in the 2E Codex Space Wolves about a year later. *Not to be confused with the "Warhammer 40,000 Compendium" from 1989.

[@Tsotha]

This makes sense when you view WH40K as "fantasy in space", for me it was clear that the Space Marines originated as futuristic counterparts to the Empire's knightly orders in WHFB. Right down to the Space Wolves being a sort of futuristic analogue to the Knights of the White Wolf in WHFB.

[@nickharvey7233]

The memories! I still have WD97 - I remember well the excitement of the expansion to Rogue Trader. I always had a soft spot for Elves, Space Elves included, and so Nastase really stuck with me. I miss the old comicly dark lore that didn't take itself too seriously (more akin to 2000AD) juxtaposed against the genuinely disturbing backdrop of Blanche and Ian Miller's (he illustrated some of my favourite FF books) genius artwork. BTW, as ever, thanks for the excellent content. I've said it before, but you are the most thoughtful, engaging Hobby YTer out there; always providing the broader meta/contextual analysis that others usually forgo.

[@MaximilianDenisPatrickPonsonby]

This character is actually what inspired my own homebrew chapter of hybrid astartes/eldar. Just put Aeldari helmets on Space Marine bodies, they actually look kinda good. I call them the Imperial Alliance. Thank you Illiyan x

[@diadochoi18]

I enjoyed his career after pro retirement where he did fun exhibition matches at Wimbledon, some times with a frying pan instead of a tennis racket.

[@jamesmaybrick2001]

Er, acktually Illiyan was exactly tough as most Marines, you had to be Major or MInor hero to be T4. His stats are someway between champion and minor hero, with an initiative of 7 he was higher in this stat than any other marine in RT. It was some years before marines got buffed to t4 as standard. He was pretty good back in the day. This was one of those big moments for me way back then, my first few games were played with T3 marines. The toughness 4 patch/buff was my first rules change and was a big deal to me back then. I was amazed that they could change rules like that. You mean the rulebook isnt set in stone!?!? it clearly made an impression on me as i still remember it clearly 30 something years later.

I think that change to T4 was made not long before 2ed, or do I remember that wrong?

[@r31n0ut]

I'm sorry, there was a "Master of Sanctity Tow Takka-Chow"?

[@ArbitorIan]

YUP

[@AbenZin1]

@@ArbitorIan And we're just skipping over "The tomb of Robert Gulliman"?

[@Prederick]

Rumman Koke. Rumman Koke. I'm going to be thinking about that for WEEKS. 🤣

[@useruseruseruseruser790]

Managed to slip in a quick career as a tennis professional. What a guy.

[@MyShadowstrike]

For me a lot of the fun of stuff like this is figuring out why this particular thing was misreported. Sometimes it's just down to the sheer vastness of 40k, but for Illiyan I think it's more the Imperium once again fighting itself; no one wants to be the guy who accurately reports that Guilliman is working closely with an alien, so oblique references to Aeldari connections blur over a succession of astropathic reports into a wholly constructed history of a half-Eldar complete with mostly fictional or allegorical career.

[@SachikaRomanova]

There's parallels to a lot of real world history, time and again but especially prevalent among Victorian scholars where they can't accept the evidence and so compose their own version of events instead. Issues of class and especially race play into it, and at the extremes you get the "it must have been aliens / an elder race" folks who've been around a long time.

[@christiangoldsmith7863]

So good to watch and recall the early Rogue Trader content, brought a smile to my face, thank you.

[@WorHammer40k]

Fantastic video, great to see Illiyan getting some love - and used as a perfect explainer for GW's approach to lore. Deffo some Spock vibes from this character - but his opening line of dialogue is surely borrowed from Dune. "I recognise your footsteps, old man!"

[@grandadmiral8173]

Just a reminder of the existence of obi wan sherlock clousseau

[@isawaryokage]

Damn its kind of hard to put the name Djinn Ntonnik on a sholder pad for my DA lieutenant xD

[@matthewmcneany]

I feel like it's not stretching the fabric of 40K lore too far to suggest that any planet that's ever been raided by Drukhari might have at least some Human-Eldar hybrids. If such offspring were sterile (like the mule) it would also explain their paucity in the lore, particularly coupled with the fact that Imperial planets would likely kill them and/or the mother. The idea that one might've survived to adulthood seems unlikely, but plausible in itself, though.

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

I do enjoy how hard 40K goes on unreliable narrators. It’s truly a masterclass.

[@WanderlustZero]

'You got a source for that, scribe?' 'My source is I made it the feth up!'

[@Hopesfallout]

It's one of the best parts of the setting IMO. It's also essential for keeping 40K silly and satirical as it was intended. Too bad that a major part of the fanbase doesn't appreciate it due to some intellectual dissonance...

[@alastaircollins1145]

@@Hopesfallout Honestly, most people in general don't think/talk about the idea enough for us to expect it as part of someone's immediate literary dissection toolkit. Which is a shame, because there's a LOT of good fodder for it out there. My favourite one to mess with people is the Bridget Jones films (can't speak for the books). It's her diary, so...

[@Zersetzor]

I really love these looks at how the story changed over time. In a way, it's the most interesting aspect of the whole hobby to me. Unfortunately, I find it very difficult to find info on it outside your videos. Most searches bring up the current lore, and in-world history in particular. Please, please, please, do more of these ! :>

[@levalefor7701]

If Illiyan Nastase can come back, does that mean that Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau will eventually reappear ?

[@ArbitorIan]

I hope so!

[@KillerOrca]

I'm fairly certain they never decanonized Clousseau and theres not exactly anything about him that directly says he CANT still be around. Inquisitors have incredible freedom in how they persecute their operations and stylings after all. On one side of the coin you have people like Fyodor Karamasov with his giant walking judgement chair and then on the other you have Amberly Vale, who more often than not pretends just to be a lounge singer and operates with a light hand and sublty until otherwise needed. Clousseau presumably falls into the middle point between them, with his odd clothing choices belying the mentioned armor and skill.

[@AlphariusHydra20]

Trazyns the infinites vault is the ultimate “bring back old stuff”piece in Warhammer. If GW wants something back from old additions just say it got out of trayzns vault.

[@leovalenzuela8368]

What a great video. Thank you.

[@davidbeaumont397]

In a small White Dwarf article differentiating loyalist Marine chapters for Space Marine (the Epic scale game), the Ultramarines were known for having the mosy Techmarines. That meant their army list allowed more armoured vehicles etc.

[@rorythomas9469]

The biographies you showed all had quite strong Traveller RPG vibes, which their 2 and 4 year terms of service in various government agencies and military units.

[@supersiamesisk]

I love how Catalyst handled the Battletech cartoon; "It's an in world propaganda piece." Brilliant!

[@leovaeg]

Points - 181 AND A HALF .... man, I love that!

[@helios7170]

I absolutely love how this video addresses the custodian issue without actually talking about the custodians, and why it’s so important to understand that everything we read in lore is portrayed from an unreliable narrator.

[@matthewcampbell3146]

Anytime someone complains about retcons, I bring up necrons. Every codex they've had up untill 6th edition changed thier background in one way or another.

[@KyllanMan]

Love these looks into the past, gets the memories of youth going, makes me think about naming a few of my lieutenants things like "scotch" and "soda" haha

[@Coraxery]

Very nice, I really like these call backs to the old rogue trader 40K, I didn't know about the current timeline Illiyanne! Cheers

[@elainegallagher6015]

I don't think the fandom / canon thing is one-upmanship as much as it's the stamp collecting personality.

[@TheShadowChesireCat]

I'd argue it's more about keeping others out. Which kills hobbies.

[@alastaircollins1145]

There's a few different angles to it, in my experience. For some people it's about proving that their interest in the thing is more valid than someone who knows less about it, either to gatekeep or try seize some amount of social power (usually the first they're ever had) by being The One Who Knows All (tm). For others, it's about completionism, the desire to understand and know everything, and they can find it irritating when other people don't have that desire and can be a bit overbearing when they know someone's said something incorrect. For still others, it's about the escapism of a world that makes sense to them: They can't see the bigger picture in life, but in a simulated one like 40K, they can, so they want to UNDERSTAND it and, when others misinterpret or misrepresent that world, it clashes with their understanding, which is very important to them. Finally, for some, they exist in a culture (even if it's only them) of respect for the expert, so to gain respect, they seek to be the expert in the things they love. And, once you are the expert, you need to be able to PROVE it for that respect to be earned, so... There's probably more archetypes to it, these are just the ones I've seen most often / been in my youth.

[@ianalexander7082]

Yeah I wasn't sure that characterisation in the video was fair. It was fairly off hand though. I think there's just a lot of people out there who crave order and get immense satisfaction out of disparate pieces of law sliding seamlessly together. The real world can be confusing, so the attraction for some with created worlds is that they don't need to be.

[@alastaircollins1145]

@@ianalexander7082 I should probably clarify that none of what I said excuses people acting like asshats. Ian and I are of a mind in that, no matter why people are drawn to these behaviours, they're unhealthy and unwelcome. If these things bring you comfort, rad, but draw that comfort privately and self-sustainably. If your comfort *requires* external validation and you get mean when it's not provided or your comfort cannot allow for others to engage with a property differently... get a new comfort.

[@ianalexander7082]

​@@alastaircollins1145 okay I think we're talking about a very small minority that actually get mean though (at least in the 'real' world). Mostly it's just people who've firm in their opinions being right. Which is fine! I can just disagree without requiring they acknowledge that. And if some stranger is mean to me online? Well I'm really not going to let that ruin my day.

[@weaselwolf]

I love that he seems to have one pointy ear

[@Nekorook]

Great video. I had no idea about this guy and I want more of him.

[@timm7305]

Great video again, sir

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

‘The current Ultramarines chief librarian has always been Tigurius’

[@Blacknight8850]

This video comes right after the 40k Badcast's latest episode, where Dan and Campbell not only bring up this character's existence, but discuss whether or not you're a listener of their show... is this a secret shout-out? lol

[@somerandomguy525]

Would love for you to do more story telling of individual characters’ inspiration, creation, retcons and more

[@badbones777]

Truly a red list video. Love it.

[@qwellen7521]

Honestly missed potential for 40K not using this idea - if humans and eldar are biologically compatible; not only gives players and writers a lot of options, but it informs the satire in dynamic ways. I’d love for games workshop to revive this og version of rogue trader as its own canon with its own rules. Unburdened by decades of lore, and no chaos to speak of, it could be a really fun endeavour.

[@101Mant]

The original has very little lore since most of it comes from early White Dwarfs that then got collected. In the actual Rogue Trader book Space Marines are just humans, Orks, Eldar and Squats basically have no background at all.

[@thetraitorguardsmen.5321]

Ah ! The 80s The good old days that Gw don't like to talk about. Let alone want to remember. Such as Orks with swastikas. Everyone who worked at Gw at this time are all gone now.

[@JRBDWD]

Nah,it is too cringe. But considering how woke GW is right now. Your wish may come true.

[@boaz2578]

Illiyan will come back, he’ll be the son of Guilliman and his eldar boothang

[@Benic1991]

When I see videos like this, I wish I had been around for all the whacky stuff from Rogue Trader 😂

[@kayosiiii]

Those character descriptions in the early white dwarf article sound a lot like somebody used the life-path system in Traveller.

[@MrPigfarmer23]

Great vid, thank you

[@markburnell59]

Excellent job

[@henrikwannheden7114]

First time I noticed that one of Calgar's pet lizards has a quill and a writing pad implanted in its head. Has someone made a figure out of that? Also: The Master Navigator Christo Columbine has an early design shuriken catapult! That can't be codex compliant, can it?

[@randomacademypilot]

Thank you.

[@Drownedinblood]

"But my custodes!!!"

[@IamLertimo]

There's still the odd pun or humourous reference in 40k material of more recent vintage. How about the Sanctus (who goes around poisoning people) from Genestealer Cults Codex 8th Edition (2016) called "Astrid Xeneca" no less! Graeme Macneill seems to be fond of sneaking little references into his books. In Priests of Mars (2012) the Mars fleet includes two ships called Wrathchild and Moonchild (titles of Iron Maiden songs). And the Blood Angels secret weapons cache on Baal, "Regio Quinquaginta-Unus" (Area 51) and that's before we even mention Ciaphas Cain (my favourite character name from the Cain books is the "Reclaimers" space marine chapter apothecary "Tobermorey" (sorry, you have to be British and a certain age to get that one....)

[@henryfleischer404]

I like old lore because it says that Space Marines get jetbikes, so I think I'll give my space marines jetbikes. I like new lore because I find the story options opened up by splitting the galaxy in two very interesting, so I think I'll place them in the dark side of the galaxy. I think the best way to look at 40K is to take what you like, and ignore what you don't.

[@keepcalmandre-roll5480]

I still can’t get over GW retconning that washing machines use to live longer with Marinus Calgar :D I do miss those lizards though. Wish they brought them back.

[@dreadpiratedan]

the "everything you read is written by someone inside the universe, and may have mistakes or deliberate lies" approach to the story is also something Blizzard have been doing a lot openly recently with World of Warcraft. they released a series of lore books called Chronicles, which (IIRC) at release were just described as story books for WoW, but after the fact the writers began to hint more and more at them being in-universe propaganda written by followers of the Titans (the good guy gods, ostensibly) and that it'd be best if we took everything in them with a grain of salt. i honestly prefer this approach, not just because it means the Lore can be "retconned" in a more satisfying way, but because it means i get to THINK more about everything i read about WoW in the wider scheme of things, and occasionally have lots of fun coming up with conspiracies and such

[@secthay]

Ambulls were that early? I've been running one as a silly little mascot in the crusade campaign I'm in. I love that!

[@SachikaRomanova]

The Ian Watson Space Marine novel has a Squat riding one with a pintle mounted heavy bolter if memory serves.

[@keithchristmas7315]

So I first got into 40k in 1995, the month the first ever Ultramarines codex came out. They were my first army, and every time I've drifted away from 40k over the years, they're always the first one I come back to A friend at school's older brother gave me a stack of his old WDs, and the oldest one he gave me was 97. I hadn't even realised at the time this was literally the first real appearance of the Ultramarines Even back then, aged 13 or so, it was wild to me to see how much things had changed. It seemed like decades of difference between these things, but it was all of 8 years Unfortunately that issue has long since been lost, but it all stuck with me. I've invoked good old Illyan many a time over the years I returned to the game about 18 months ago. I've managed to accrue about 5k of painted marines (as well as some Tyranids). I really must paint up a suspiciously pointy eared Librarian at some point

[@tflwulf69]

Very clever message here, I picked up on it.

[@garyknight3018]

I still laugh when I see people take the lore so seriously and still refer to it as “Fluff”. Great video Ian and a great example on why this hobby should remain fun.

[@jimirowe7006]

Nice depth of field on your viddy Ian.

[@ArbitorIan]

Thanks, I've finally managed to sit the right distance from the camera!

[@totalCoolerUsername]

The one in the background is unclear, but the dinosaur in front is clearly Calgars writing desk 😂

[@josephyoung2593]

I've got a publisher interested in a book about all this.

[@David-js2vp]

Yes I do and just want to say cool shirt my man.

[@patmann9363]

Ahh the 2000,AD years.

[@illwindbl0ws]

I’ve given up trying to “learn” the lore. As suggested, now I pick and choose. For instance, this video got me curious about the Dark Angels so I am off on that thread(and Ian better have a video about them already!). I am usually one of those people who wants a neat and tidy world with steadfast rules and storylines. But when you look at 40K’s origins and how it’s evolved since then…there’s just no way. You gotta enjoy it for what it is or you’ll always be frustrated by it.

[@rifway22]

Hi Ian, can you make a video about the history of the White Dwarf magazine?

[@laurentderrien]

I still wonder why the f they picked a tennis player name as inspiration...

[@IamLertimo]

The need to generate a lot of names from scratch as there was no lore to build on. I actually think the name owes at least a partial debt to Illya Kuryakin from the Man From UNCLE.

[@mateuszduda2436]

Christo Columbine, Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau, Tow Takka-chow - Old names in WH40K was gorgeuous!!!

[@TheCasualMark]

5:58- 10 minutes of free time followed by exercise before bed 😂

[@Perchpole]

I seem to recall there were a lot of games with words and names. If memory serves me correctly Russell Man (Leman Russ) and Lionel Johnson (Lion El Jonson) were real people too - just like Ilie Năstase.

[@lbq1]

"Robert Gulliman"? HAHAHAHA