Horus Heresy 8: BATTLE FOR THE ABYSS by Ben Counter | Warhammer Book Club with Mira!

[@11fladjams]

We march for -Macragge- Makkaridge!

[@VarkaThrin]

I just want a "Fist of Macramé" T-Shirt

[@MrZauberelefant]

Maccarage

[@victrixsecuris]

We march for Maccaroni!

[@stoneosborne9247]

Da Big Makkaridge

[@nicholasleon7819]

And we may know some fear perhaps!

[@seano4977]

Makkaridge definitely now needs to become a planet in the Cain novels.

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

Bet they have amazing Macarons at Makkaridge

[@briochepanda]

​@erikrungemadsen2081 "Now I've been to some of the lesser known armpits the imperium has to offer during my long and inglorious career, and I'll be the first to admit that Makkaridge was as about as exciting as hymn practice back in the scholar was. But I'll give them one thing, their ploin macarons were almost worth fighting an ork invasion for. Unfortunately for me the ork warboss Skullstampah Dakkachucka had decided he'd take me up on that challenge, and had gathered every greenskin in the sector too make them the problem of the valhallan 597th, and by extension me." Inquisitorial note: We can assume that in his typically self centered fashion, Cain was deliberately ignoring the considerable inconvenience the impending Waaagh was about to have on the citizenry of Makkaridge, and by extension the sector, as such an incursion by the orks would no doubt lead to a significant downturn in ploin production. Which was a pity because Cain was indeed correct about the quality of Makkaridge ploin macarons.

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

@@briochepanda As a Games Workshop shareholder i can say we need this story told.

[@JACKXK]

It's now a moon that orbits Macragge -- and that's canon.

[@1987adennis]

In my long and so called glorious time in the service of the imperium both myself, Jurgen and the Valhallen 597th arrived at Makkaridge. Looking out of the ships lander I could see it was a ball of ice, a holiday for the Valhallen’s who were chomping at the bit to get down there and myself wishing I could’ve found a way to stay on the flagship with the Lord General Zyvan and the talents of his cook……

[@merci_ann]

Bastard Scale Update! Lucius: 27 Fabius: "blown up the scale"/contested by Ian Erebus: 12 The Lion: 9 Bequa: 9 Fulgrim: 8.5 Wsoric the Demon: 8 Brynngar Sturmdreng: 7 Julius EC: 6 Zadkiel: 5.5 Marius EC: 5.5 Solomon EC: 3 Everyone else in Descent of Angels: 3 Iacton Cruze: 1 Thanks for remembering to specify the numbers! Love you guys!❤

[@Ares180BPM]

Kor Phaeron: 13 (about the same as Erebus but with an inferiority complex) 😅

[@Mugdorna]

Oddly enough, "Imhotep" is probably the earliest non-royal person to have been named in historical records. He was the architect of the pyramid of the Pharoah Djoser.

[@GeeqDoubt]

I was so blown away that dudes name is “Imhotep” I looked him up on Wikipedia - brilliant! Man if only he were around now his Twitter account would be so fire!

[@philipcollins5144]

"It's never mentioned again" was doing some very heavy lifting in this vid!

[@gawkthimm6030]

56:36 "I was there the day they served the istvan soup" -is so funny to me I almost fell out my chair laughing...

[@bravghede]

He only wrote two of the HH novels, so I guess no close Ben Counter of the third kind 😢

[@the_9ent]

👏👏👏

[@jonasmoody5750]

Undue hatred! While Battle for the Abyss isn’t sophisticated literature, it’s a fun Space Marine book. I really agree with Mira’s take that it’s colorful and enjoyable… just go for the ride. My only gripe is the caricature of the Space Wolves and the Saturday morning villainy. The rest is just fun junk food.

[@latrodectusmactans7592]

Excited for Valdor. Chris Wraight is quickly becoming one of my favorite Black Library writers.

[@filteredjc4653]

Ah Macarage, the home of Rob Utegu Illiman and the Ult Ramarins

[@turnipslop3822]

I just want to say that these little book reviews are some of my favourite videos on KZbin and they bring me so much joy 😊

[@brya9681]

Mira's energy is contagious

[@paddya3304]

It's the little things, like when she whispers 'yay, magic' (at roughly 21:07). Couldn't help but smile when I heard that.

[@Duhad8]

I love how the way you two describe the Space Wolves just makes them sound like a bunch of Klingons. Just imagining Michael Dorn in power armor going, "Psyker, you have no honor!"

[@MrZauberelefant]

That's more of a Chancellor Gowron thing, because Worf at least has some sense to him.

[@AdamPriestleyWargaming]

13:46 No Mira, YOU are why we come to Ian's channel. "Too caught up in the architecture", bloody brilliant ha ha.

[@OmegaLittleBob]

Battle for the Abyss is fine. Its just alright. I like the one lone loyal World Eater just running around the super evil ship killing a bunch of Word Bearers who can't keep up with him.

[@Haplo699g]

Yeah, I thought he was characterised well. He wasn't just an angry boy. He actually had camaraderie with his brothers.

[@robsta12]

Its actually far better than so much of what comes later as well. Give me Ben Counter's weird visions of hell over anything Nick Kyme has written or another fucking anthology any day of the week.

[@NiepoprawnyNick]

I really don’t like world eaters but this one was cool . Actually he not seem to be world eater 😁

[@Demigodish4o3]

I will watch this in a couple of months when I've caught-up! I'm currently reading Fulgrim. ^_^ I've made it a tradition you watch your videos whenever I finish a HH novel.

[@euansmith3699]

This whole series of Book Club videos is wonderful.

[@salttrader2920]

Burning eye is probably a reference to magnus, who is described as cyclopean

[@ArbitorIan]

OH YEAH 🤦

[@hero4life15]

Always love your takes Mira!

[@amandaidange4981]

Dark Angel; it was cat DNA. My gf, a veterinarian, remembers this.

[@spittzzvi]

Some characters had dog/wolf DNA. There was the dog man and I think the character Jensen Ackles was playing had wolf DNA too? Jessica Alba definitely had cat DNA.

[@alexsmith7313]

I’m just settling into an 8-hour drive and now I discover my favorite roughly-hour-long ‘podcast experience’ has reached an 8th episode. Awesome! :D

[@neiladams3042]

3 and a half minutes in and I'm already crying with laughter! These videos are always so much fun :)

[@LaunoRosso]

The Lectitio Divinitatus is the not the same book as The Book of Lorgar, as the latter was written post Chaos corruption (& was also bound in the skin of loyalists if I remember correctly).

[@robertwareham8466]

Yeah, I picked up on that. I was strongly under the impression that the Lectitio was Lorgar's first book which he then denounced, before writing the Book of Lorgar in praise of Chaos. Ironically, the Lectitio then went on to form the basis of the new Emperor worshipping religion, the Imperial Cult, right up to 40k.

[@lukewisner8597]

This book was the first one that was a genuine chore to get through. Getting a good laugh from your thoughts made that experience worth it though. Cant wait for the Mechanicum video!

[@vadersjester]

Lotara Sarrin is the ultimate danger date. :D

[@dekuswagg]

I love the way you two film these. It’s informative and interesting and very fun.

[@SamusSelf-Destruct]

Ian: They attack by going up the torpedo tubes. Mira: That sounds painful. Me: spits out my tea

[@NeloBladeOfRanni]

Didnt expect to hear the dark angel tv show mentioned in a video on a horus heresy novel 😂

[@revenant7492]

Say goodbye to Mira Manga... Say hello to Mira Mac Aridge! 🤣

[@briochepanda]

Lorgar's pod was left next to a radio playing Christian rock for a little to long when they were waiting to microwave him for that extra 10 minutes.

[@Nukefandango]

"Carmen" from the late 90s

[@pagancrew]

I don't know why, but this was my favourite book review so far. "I was there the day they served the Isstvan soup"

[@stewartthorpe2533]

The world needs more Miras

[@AdamJohnstonMusicUK]

Mackeridge sounds like a northern town with some lovely country walking trails nearby.

[@rodin9836]

Yess, was waiting for you guys to continue the Horus Heresy !

[@petey7692]

I am surprised that Mira didnt want to marry our man Garviel.

[@WoodStoveification]

Sirens are in the Word Bearers Omnibus so I think that's where Counter got them from - but I don't remember them in the Heresy

[@billybongos957]

As someone who'd only read one space marine book (Helsreach) before starting the Heresy, I'd generally echo Mira's sentiment of not hating Battle for the Abyss. Like she said, it was fun seeing the guys from different legions, even if they are all caricatures. That being said, at the point I'm at now, I've had plenty of battles and going through it again would be a slog. It fits better among all the Calth short stories they got eventually, but I guess they wanted something out that got to the action faster. I've only seen 2 or 3 references to it in other stories, once in Outcast Dead where one of the World Eaters remembers that time he beat up Skrawl in a moshpit to grab a chain Angron threw, and another when an Imperial Fist is talking to an Ultramarine on Makkaridge, saying that they should do something about that giant dead starship they have hanging around in their orbit, with the Ultramarine basically going, "Eh."

[@Eyeofthemaelstrom]

I just finished reading this book again after 10+ years as i knew you would be reviewing it too. It was difficult to get though for the points you raised. Cheers Mira and Ian .

[@WeedCesar]

The ever burning eye is a reference to magus's the Red's 2nd eye which is manifest in the warp and why he's the cyclops in real space

[@jonlee6794]

i mean, she says it as a joke, but who else is totally in the "here because of mira" club?

[@marjoe32]

Manganites unite. Or Miramaniacs

[@singtothesilence]

Miramics?

[@johnryan5133]

@@singtothesilencemiramaniacs?

[@BridgetOfHestia]

I got to book club because of Ian, but I'm *staying* because of Mira. I've never read the HH novels, just like hearing folks discuss 40k lore.

[@oddmediatv7907]

I’m so grateful for this podcast. I’m new to WH and making my way through the Horus Heresey and everything has been great until I got to this book. I’m listening to the audio book and it was impossible to keep up with. I’ve listened twice and I won’t be going back. I will be keeping up with book club.

[@Powoga]

And then it turns out in _Betrayer_ that Lorgar had -another- two more ships like this built, somewhere, at some point.

[@iceniwargames6347]

yer which makes this book even worse, because the super special big bad isn't actually special after all.

[@SachikaRomanova]

I read Battle For The Abyss when it originally came out, and while I was disappointed by the throwaway bolter porn nature of it, that wasn't why it most vexed me. What really disappointed me was the fact that it gave us a first look at Loyalist World Eaters and then just utterly squandered them.

[@willdunn8846]

You guys are so great. thanks for making the effort to be on KZbin.

[@MutualMischief]

As a child Warhammer player/fan, I spent several years calling the Skaven (rat people) main troop unit the "clan rats" "clarinet rats" instead, so Mira's in good company getting names wrong!

[@Mortys_Toilet_Attendant]

😂 here’s my Clarinet rats, and next to them, my big Rat Oboe.

[@pagancrew]

​@@Mortys_Toilet_Attendant Now I'm just hearing Victor Saltzpyre shouting "Rat Oboe - coming at us!"

[@RSBurgener]

My best friend was the king of getting names wrong in our teens. For years I thought it was "Slan-EESH" and "Sanjuinis" . I'm sure there were more but I quickly un-learned them.

[@kirksabio2382]

cant wait for you guys to get to know no fear where the battle around makkaridge starts

[@Benry87]

Mira had the response I did. I loved it because it was basically a dumb action movie sidequest with the Space Marine legions acting like their legions while they chase down a big bad. I LATER realized it was a book where nothing important happened and the "emotional payoff" was completely undercut by a considerably better book.

[@connorbreese8454]

I really enjoyed this one, glad to see you’re covering it!

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Maybe Imhotep’s wand was really a magic candle that he got from a dodgy elf in a city of thieves? And you’re not Word Bearers, you’re Tome Keepers.

[@tomrulz11]

Really enjoyed this book for some reason , it’s nice to see smaller stories during HH

[@Toombs71]

55:55 I think the joke it's about how the end up being crushed by rubbles

[@6dragondaddy913]

We march for Macarena!

[@6dragondaddy913]

Word Bearers for Mira to meet: Argel Tal and Barthusa Narek...

[@24fretsoffury]

I actually enjoyed this book, in a fun, schlocky, sci-fi ensemble novel. When else would we get space wolves and world eaters teaming up together? Ian, you should really have Mira read “After De’shea” before Betrayer. That short story changed my mind completely with Angron and the legion. I never had my sympathy turned on to a reviled faction before after reading that. It’s one of the few short stories in the heresy, that has stuck with me for months and longer.

[@lostsanityreturned]

I am sorry ian, but I originally started out as a fan of your videos but now the book club colab videos are by far my favourite on the channel (in no small part because of you ofc... but still... from side content to main content)

[@TheMetalWarlord]

Before KZbin was a thing and 40K audiobooks existed, literally everyone I gamed with called the Ultramarines' homeworld "Mack-uh-ridge".

[@telesedrin]

Minor correction to what Ian said about Blood Claws and Long Fangs never mentioned again in the Horus Heresy. In The Burning Of Prospero, there is a "Long Fang" referred to as such as he's one of the oldest veterans in the company. So I don't agree that it's only a 40k thing.

[@ArbitorIan]

It's mentioned that he's the first one though. Like, eventually, there will be 'long fangs' named after him, but not by the point of this book

[@ironbomb6753]

Mira and you make for a very fun book review. ❤😂👍

[@detdatho]

I usually don't watch these before I read the book, but I had heard bad things about this one, so here I am, to see if I need to read it.

[@Theotherone89]

You guys are like my signal that it’s time to pick up the next book. Looks like book 8 is next on deck for my audible list.

[@kasparline]

Don't read it, its a waste of time honestly

[@chaptermasterBurnedHand]

I will never say the Mworld name again other than how Mira says it. And I enjoyed this book very much! I've never played the tt game either so this was like a space/Warp "submarine" action/adventure. Saturday morning cartoons are the 💩 ETA: Who could hate Ian or Mira. Unpossible

[@daniellogue8365]

I usually try to read these books before i watch these episodes, but with your glowing reviews I might just take the easy route

[@frazeremerson8168]

I think the best characters in all these are the thousand sons if there is one legion who tries their best to do the right thing and then get massively dumped on its them guys. PS great reviews keep up the good work.

[@threeohm]

That thumbnail is just FIRE! 🔥🔥🔥

[@CorwinB]

The war cry of the Ultramarines should definitely become "Makkaridge and Honour!"

[@thehitcat0132]

Mira has spoken. Maccaridge it shall be. Jesus you guys are the best.

[@vraska8799]

Fortunatelly, when i read this book i've never read any 40K novel, so this ultranormal book was a novelty for me.

[@Kingofturves]

ULTRAMAR does double lifting. It's the name of the home system of the Ultramarines, with Macragge. But it also becomes know as the wider region of Interstellar space with the 500 worlds located in various star systems that were conquered by the Ultramarines.

[@ArbitorIan]

Macragge is in the Macragge System, along with Ardium, Nova Thule, etc. The Macragge System is in the realm of Ultramar.

[@Mysaladdays-go6cc]

I always assumed it was Macragge because the Ultramarines are craggy faced...

[@SamusSelf-Destruct]

I have never honestly laughed at your guys’ shenanigans as much as I did at the description of Istvaan Soup being “biologically neutral” and “well cooked.” Also, mashed potatoes and Garviel is probably a reference to Garviel being crushed under rubble.

[@chocolatefreespeach]

That's much smarter than what I was going for wh8fh was Garvey sounding like Gravy

[@HistoritorJimaldus]

@@chocolatefreespeachit was because it sounds like gravy 😝

[@grantkruger3689]

Makkaridge is now how I will refer to it 😁 Also, its quite tragic to me that the Space Wolves and Thousand Sons never knew that their warriors had worked together to save Makkaridge. For me, I like how we see loyalists from legions that went traitor react to the betrayal. I liked it for that.

[@DavidBain-mh1oz]

Absolutely love the chemistry here (said it before) and for the pronounced "Mcragge" lol I used to call in (as a scottish person) Mc Rage (mcragge) Ians knowledge is absolutely resolute!

[@drewswoods]

I fall asleep listening to audiobooks, and this one has been quite confusing to listen to at times due to all of the warp and hallucination sheninagans. The scenery changes massively at times, and I don't know if I'm just having trouble following along like I sometimes do or if I've briefly lost consciousness and skipped ahead 15 minutes.

[@notnubilous3804]

Oh man, I can't wait till you guys get to A Thousand Sons and Know No Fear. I think Mira is gonna love them!

[@6dragondaddy913]

We march for MacDonalds! Wait, no... MacGuyver?

[@Vroomerz]

4 year old me would always say, during the response prayer in Catholic Mass, “Lord have a pear.” Because that’s what I thought everyone else was saying. And I thought it was very very odd for God to want fruit. But, okay.

[@tabe8850]

20:03 my version has “thirteenth.” I guess it’s possible that the book was initially written with Roman numerals and there was a typo. Viii instead of Xiii.

[@ArbitorIan]

It's VERY possible that I just wrote it down wrong in my notes but finding out would mean reading it again so....

[@MrZauberelefant]

@@ArbitorIanWhy wouldn't you do that? :-)

[@BwipBwop]

I always thought that the ever burning eye was Magnus' eye

[@craigzinkta3988]

Mira has a greenish-OSL sheen on her hair: very very cool.

[@MrGabilonia]

I liked it. Void battles were very well narrated

[@stewartthorpe2533]

Woot! Book club video!!!!

[@Kristian.B.Kristiansen]

Finally! A good Heresy-novel!

[@johnryan5133]

It's not the focus of the video in the slightest but damn Miras hair looks good with the green light reflecting from it. Now to watch the rest of the vid and to march for honour & makkaridge!

[@maxlowthian884]

Love the recaps guys keep it up ❤❤

[@davydatwood3158]

At 32:30 ish, who else heard Pitch Meeting's "barely an inconvenience" line in Ian's voice? Oh, man, now I wish Ian was a full time KZbinr so he'd have an incentive to do a crossover with Pitch Meeting...

[@mushymanUK]

I’ve just finished the book as my 6th read because I am following the Heresy Omnibus structure, and it was fine. I got kinda bored in the middle but the last quarter or so picked up and I got quite engaged. I’ve not read any 40k fiction really so the characterisation issues was not a problem. Regarding Wsoric at the end, I thought the point was that he was lurking on the ship for ages, influencing their emotions. That’s why Brynngar was so over the top anti-psyker, and why Cestus stuck Mhotep straight in a prison cell. He was just manifesting at the end to finish off the crew.

[@jamesbox9874]

Id be interested to hear your thoughts on the cover artwork. Some of the books are great, some not so much. Like the cover for this book - which appears to show a scene which isnt anywhere in the book?

[@PrimetimeD]

Makkaridge is now canon in my head.

[@willumbermarchant5510]

The silliest bit was calling it Ultramar, as if that was why they're called Ultramarines....

[@johnstrelley3917]

I'm assuming that the other book you're not looking forward to is Damnatiin of Pyphos, right?

[@namewastaken360]

Makkaridge sounds delicious, perhaps that's how the Tyranids read it.

[@RedemptiveChief]

Everburning eye I thought was the eye of terror

[@startdale5547]

Ultramarines: Most dateable of the Space Marines. Favourite joke of the video.

[@francois2449]

Wait, that's what they meant by "There are no wolves on Fenris"? I always thought it was a psychic thing (like Ork magic sort of)… Also, this series is great. I wanted to put it in the background while doing something else, but had to actually stop and focus on what you were saying. It is great to hear the thoughts of a newcomer paired with a loremaster

[@xferens8711]

I tore through the first couple books in the heresy and this one was the first one that made me take a break for a while. Was insanely disappointing after how much I loved Legion.

[@nickkertzer3047]

Ironically, the Luna Wolves end up being the metaphorical werewolves, changing their skins to become monsters. The Space Wolves just get to be literally wolves instead of just figurative wolves.

[@sean4929]

In Australia we say Macraggo

[@Baldwenis]

Actually it's Maccra's

[@TheHoldenstein]

Loved the chat even though it pained Ian. The great news is that you are going from the ridiculous to the sublime. After that are you doing the short story collections? There’s some good stuff in them but they are not exactly essential.

[@leovalenzuela8368]

Istvaan soup: base proteins and tears I’m DYING 😂

[@kirbyrawstorne]

Really good to hear what happens in this book because I couldn't get through it either. Looking forward to when you get to Nemesis as I actually quite liked that one. It was like a casino heist but for assassins