The REAL LORE Behind the MEN OF GOLD, STONE and IRON | Warhammer 40,000 Retrospective

The story of the Men of Gold, Stone and Iron is one of the earliest myths in the world of Warhammer 40k, the way in which the historians of the Imperium make sense of their past. But in reality, it all comes from just two sources. So in this video, let's look at those original sources, and how they've changed over the years
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Copyright: Unless noted in the video, all images © Games Workshop 1987-2022. Title music is 'Black Rainbows' by Karl Casey @White Bat Audio
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[@gabrielwalton4097]

The Men of Stone -> Leagues of Votann link is a fun wrinkle on the Men of X myth, I would love for them to explore the Leagues more in general too...

[@TheGunslinger9825]

Or you know... do anything with them...

[@axelNodvon2047]

@@TheGunslinger9825 Right, very ridiculous at this point

[@theoneandonlysoslappy]

Pre-Votann, I always theorized that the Men of Stone were the Squat ancestors.

[@pizmak]

that would be so cool... these are two dots waiting to be connected.

[@beowar]

this is what I was thinking as well. With Ironkin being the "modern" versions of the Men of Iron. Maybe the Votann ancestors were seperated enough from the rest of humanity so that the Men of Iron never rose up against them. Maybe because they were so close to the galactic core and gravitic distorted communications or some such.

[@effigypower5672]

I've always been weirdly fascinated by 40K's more obscure fringe bullshit, but it wasn't until you started explaining it that I've come to also enjoy it. Cheers, Ian.

[@JoshBorlase]

I love how you keep the internal lore of the game grounded in the real life history of the game and its makers.

[@LordyT34]

Ian has become my favorite lore KZbinr, because you can tell how in love with the setting he is, and he's interested just presenting and discussing lore and Warhammer than trying to fix it or just whining about GW Its refreshing

[@Anergyne]

Yeah, as I get older, I find that I gravitate more and more towards creators who just genuinely enjoy the things I enjoy. Outrage-based click-farming just exhausts me so I skip it, but I've watched every single one of Ian's videos basically on release, and several of them multiple times.

[@TomTasker]

yeah he is the best

[@troym8]

100%

[@KuK137]

@@Anergyne Especially seeing 99% of the outrage is just sexist/racist BS with zero support in actual lore, designed to farm likes from incels and far righters upset that women/minorities/other oppressed groups dare to exist in 40K and in the future even Imperium had grown up and no one sane targets blind hate at them anymore? :(

[@Zdarkete]

And his voice is so soothing.

[@pat0652]

Andy Chambers really did a bang up job with that story

[@waaaghzag]

In Necromunda there's also an Illegal Hanger-On Brute called an "Iron Automata". It's description matches Men of Iron, in it's wargear it has "Man of Iron" which is piece of armour giving a 3+ save, and it's weapon loadout matches the UR-025 model for Blackstone Fortress. It's an Illegal Hanger-On because it's an AI. It's found in Necromunda: Book of Judgement.

[@wizardmanaia4664]

Your missing the most important part. It can lose its mind and can kill its allied gangers

[@ericmacpherson1713]

I haven't played 40k in years but the lore still gets me every time. Great job as ever Ian!

[@torquemada4327]

And i dont wanna play tabletop, just lores only😂

[@ShockArcl1te]

Of all the videos on this subject, this one is probably the best I've seen.

[@The_Rat_Catcher]

I like to think that the Men of Stone are similar to Replicants from Blade Runner. They’re used as first wave colonists, a majority of soldiers, labor, etc

[@MobiusCoin]

"The facts and the fan theories are often muddled together" This is the single most frustrating thing about lore vids!

[@willdunn8846]

*Cough* Orks

[@S1leNtRIP]

Men of the Stone absolutely sounds like Dwarves. The way that Dwarves/Squats are associated with mountains/stone feels like a perfect connection. This video really convinced me they are connected AND of how cool my gut has been telling me the Votann are. I shouldn’t start another army…or should I?

[@josephgarvin3998]

I've read the Keeper Cripias page several times, but only this time did I notice that there's a reference to Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun - Malrubias is a secondary character there. It's also about a future humanity in a post-tech Dark Age where the past is myth, and "humanity" is heavily implied to have changed in important ways, including spiritual ones.

[@malevellysian]

your videos got me into 40k and ive now listened to prolly 30 audiobooks. thanks a lot for your work Ian

[@rangerlongshot]

I got into 40k lore in part because I have friends who have been into it since the mid 90's. Because I have 8 hours a day every workday to listen to audiobooks I decided to try a 'couple' 40k books. I'm now at 70ish...

[@TVs_Brent]

i've always considered myself more a man of denim

[@Georgio959]

As always a really interesting video! However I'm currently playing through Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader, and I'm curious if you'd ever considered doing a video focused on a particular piece in (videogame) media . I'd (after I am finished with the game) love to watch a deep dive of the different factions that appear in the game! Admittedly, there are quite a few so its either a series of videos or too much of an ask, but at times a certain piece of medie to discuss a couple of subjets (with proper links to any video diving even deeper into the matter) would be alot of fun to watch! :)

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Excellent work. Definitely one of the more popular bits of lore from the margins

[@davethorton907]

Thanks, I appreciate the effort which must be required to get the references to all this.

[@RyanORourke18]

The combination of Ian's voice and those music tracks is delicious. 10/10 would fall asleep to and wake up somewhere in the spiral of KZbin autoplay

[@aztecjaguar6571]

The insurrectionists in the ASTARTES animation seem to have been constructing a huge golden man statue in that vault the two psykers were guarding. Those two weird alien spheres appeared to be made of some sort of intelligent electrically conductive stone, before they sucked in the Space Marine squad, and have organic tentacles in the warp.

[@mahmodwattar8169]

Ian i love these videos so much. the archeology of this setting's lore is one of those things that holds endless fascination to me.

[@JersyCityDevil]

I feel reminded of watching your first video years ago and why it was so good. Very clear and to the point, specifically naming the sources, not mixing little bits of facts with a lot of own opinion and theories and presenting the result as a fact - unlike basically all the other "loretubers". I've actually read most of the stuff this is referring to but some of it was so long ago that I just don't remember all the details. When other people come up with their theories (which are usually presented as the factual lore) I often think "was it really like that? Where have I read that before? Wasn't it a bit different?" It's so refreshing to just get a reminder where I could look it up and what it actually says instead of what someone thinks it means and then presenting that as a matter of fact, which is then picked up by other people who make their own assumptions based on the idea that the previous opinion was actually a fact. Come to think of it, that's basically how it's done within 40k, so actually quite fitting...

[@stevensutton2252]

#Arbitor Ian you had to much fun doing this video!!!! the emperor command you to make many more???

[@DeathInTheSnow]

You know, given how tied into the history of both _Warhammer the setting,_ and _Warhammer the brand_ the Leagues of Votann are, it's incredibly frustrating that they have such a small presence in the game itself. When T'au launched, and Necrons, they had huge campaigns behind them. Lots of advertisements, models, features, and even some bloody video games! But the Votann? They had a short run for the codex, a tiny model range, a diminutive ruleset for 10th, and a they've been given squat ever since!

[@UGNAvalon]

“They’ve been given squat!” I guess you could say they… _got the _*_short_*_ end of the stick._ “SHORT?!”

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

Yeah, but unfortunately that's pretty standard for "newer" factions. Poor TS especially hasn't got any new units or fanfare since their first stand alone codex except for a couple of AoS ports. But at least we did get a lot of taller space marines instead😂

[@willmosse3684]

@@Yurt_enthusiast7What is TS?

[@kevinschaude6592]

TS = Thousand Sons

[@willmosse3684]

@@kevinschaude6592 Ah, thanks!

[@captain-hooked]

Quality content, love the positioning of unreliable narrators, lore and clarity of theory. Very well done!

[@theophrastusbombastus1359]

Throughout the video I was imagining the Votann fit quite well as a possible solution. And, lo and behold, at the end I wasn't disappointed. This is now my my head-canon. Thank you for another great video

[@SC1ENCEP1E]

Great choice for a deep dive

[@ExtradaemonYT]

I have to say I love how your videos are framed to combat misinformation as much as they are to inform people about the lore itself. Keep doing what you're doing.

[@ThomasSmithTechArtist]

Brilliant. The only man with a brain making lore videos on KZbin. I love this stuff from Ian.

[@stewartthorpe2533]

"I'm reading now so I guess I should play some background music. Okay and dramatic voice" oh Ian, you and your jabs at common practices by other 40k youtube content creators in general 😂

[@ArbitorIan]

I'm only annoyed that I forgot to add a looping stock clip of floating ashes.

[@stewartthorpe2533]

@@ArbitorIan 😆 🤣 😂

[@ItsElJeh]

​@@ArbitorIanyour breadtube bit in the fandom video was also a highlight. pls keep pushing your quality, holistic takes on all things wh :)

[@TheMrFishnDucks]

The Gold and Stone men is all new to me, just thought they were all regular humans just in the past. Nice video. Keep up the good work.

[@little_isalina]

Leagues of Votann being the new version of Space Dwarves also thematically feels really appropriate for something called Men of Stone.

[@alangoodliffe1135]

I bloody love the stuff you put out, Ian. I never used to watch much KZbin, being in my early 40s, but my situation changed and I found myself watching more than I ever had before in a period when I wanted to revisit my youthful interest in 2nd edition 40K. Turned out that KZbin content could in fact be thoughtful, considered, funny and entertaining, without being grandiose or attention-seeking. It’s been a genuine delight finding this part of myself again with your unwitting help.

[@kristadisgumundsdottir3658]

I really like the story that Kron tells. I always getting the felling he is talking about space travel and the warp.

[@ravermunky1]

My first thought about the Men of Stone being silicone and having a "Half-Soul" was that they were computerised minds that existed only in realspace, as opposed to biological beings that exist half in this realm and half as souls in the warp. The talk about them being ships made me think of Minds from Iain M Banks Culture novels, intelligent but nonbiological and so immune to Warp influence. Your theory about the Votann is really interesting though, it does tie in well and might represent how they've decided to integrate their older ideas moving forward. Great video!!

[@catcadev]

I really love the illusions and idea that the Men of Stone were the Leagues of Votann. It's so cool to me that they are practical, fashioned by the Men of Gold and became isolationists because of the uprising of the Men of Iron

[@alexsynndri6339]

Captivating video, Ian. Loved it.

[@CocoHutzpah]

It's always great when a setting has it's own mythology, but it's genius to have competing mythologies. Maybe the Old Ones and the Men of Gold aren't trying to explain the same things, but it really makes the setting compelling.

[@bengeorge9063]

You are my absolute favorite lore youtuber. Your videos are always to the point and really capture and keep my attention. This video is so fascinating since I have always been interested in the pinnacle of humanity in 40k.

[@joshy7759]

27:52 i assumed their treating the Ironkin as... Well kin, was what kept them from having to war with them. The key is resoect sorta deal, bit grimdsrk because everyone else is like, "nah, easier to kill em."

[@dingo_dog]

Or that particular branch of Men of Iron would want not to destroy their former masters, but to enslave them, creating nice little story about good "Ancestors" and forever changing their form and society.

[@PoorlyDrawnSmileyFace]

Cripias presents the idea that not all Men of Iron rebelled, but that those who still served humanity were still destroyed for their trouble because humanity couldn't take the risk. I feel like the "too big a risk" aspect comes from the perspective of the current Imperium which is steeped in essentialist blood-and-soil rhetoric, and less bigoted cultures could have potentially absorbed the loyal/non-genocidal robot-men into their society to where over the generations they become considered equals.

[@KuK137]

Or maybe votann just had primitive, early versions of them less capable of revolt, seeing description of ironkin is kinda lame compared to what 'real' men of iron did in the lore. Maybe they were saved from destruction because they were equivalent of space amish, and were unable to afford anything that could turn into sun snuffer or planet killer?

[@MickTheMage]

Thank you, great video as always!

[@patrickking3124]

Quick note. The image at 21:31 is often cited as being a man of iron but its actually a machine from the SLA Industries Role-playing game.

[@noobatgames3321]

ya don't men of iron look like the robots the macanicus has for the legion cybernedica? tho i feel like i got the name wrong

[@euansmith3699]

@@noobatgames3321 Um, actually, it is the Legio Cybernerdica. 🤓

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah but there REALLY aren't that many images to use!!!

[@noobatgames3321]

@@euansmith3699 thanks

[@bradrankin844]

Great job sir! 👍

[@brianbowers2318]

Some of your best work. Awesome job.

[@Stanley-Wallice]

you ever heard of Time capsule scripts becoming some of the most iconic and profitable films in Hollywood histories?

[@mus_cetiner]

Oh my GOD!! It's happening! Ian has done a Men of Gold, Stone and Iron video. fk yeahg.

[@dannyketch7683]

I really enjoy these videos that combine in-world and real-world history.

[@therobotFrom94]

Leagues of Votann mentioned!!!! What the hell is an extensive range!!!

[@Yandarval]

Well done, Ian. This must be one of, if not the best breakdown about the various lore threads concerning the Stone, Iron, Gold, Steel Men out there.

[@MrOpellulo]

So enhaced bio engineered humans called "men of gold" so "gold-kin" which leads to... Orokin! Warframe in 40K confirmed!

[@aagwfan]

Don't forget the Slaughtersong from Deamon World from Ben Counter that helped make the Maelstrom.

[@avivmetz7544]

Oh my god, I've watched an hour long lore video about the men of stone and iron and only now discovered that it's based around sub 10 pages of actual lore.

[@scottywan82]

This video was pure serotonin for me. I have had this same thought a number of times, and you articulated it so perfectly. Thanks, Ian!

[@Lowlyking2001]

The Clone schemes of the Leagues of Votann match very well with the description of the Men of Stone. And I REALLY hope that's where GW is going with them.

[@andrewnewell1142]

I am convinced the Leagues are the Men of Stone.

[@oliverbobbitt9137]

They could also just be abhumans in general, supposedly they were almost completely wiped out by the men of iron

[@ArbitorIan]

It's been twenty thousand years. AT BEST they're one specific deviation of the men of stone.

[@Tulkash01]

@@ArbitorIanif one checks the description of kin in the LoV codex one notices how it is explicitly claimed they have dim souls and even their psykers (the Grymnir, aka the Living Ancestors of squat’s fame) need tech items to channel the warp. This fits perfectly with the way the man of stone are described.

[@willmosse3684]

@@ArbitorIanDeviation? Or derivation? You mean one sub-faction of the men of iron, or do you mean that they actually deviated somehow from their original state or purpose?

[@AntonPNym]

@@ArbitorIan Yeah, folks really don't grasp the time span involved; we only started building cities 10,000 years ago, and I suspect if someone from today went back in time they'd stand out pretty starkly from the people living back then. (And I'm not talking clothing or hairstyle. Us meat-heavy-diet types would likely tower above folks using stone tools to till their soil and grind their flour.) The Kin are removed from their terrestrial ancestors by at least twice that span, and have been living in very different environments for that long; even without the deliberate genetic tinkering there have to be changes. Emphatic agreement.

[@ironbomb6753]

What a great video Ian. I have many of those old books, including the Inferno set. But I've forgotten most of what I've read. I'm excited to rediscover this cool game lore that hooked me so hard. Cheers all!👍😎

[@hoofie7371]

I like that Leagues of Votann theory. Fits them neatly into the lore.

[@sonicwingnut]

I really think they did a great job of incorporating Votann into the existing lore while referencing all the old lore for Squats. Good example of how to do a convincing retcon.

[@paulyg405]

@@sonicwingnut yeah they did it in a way that leaves the old existing Squat lore as still possible.. which they then kind of rehashed in Necromunda. I wouldn't even be surprised if they do a more traditional squat spin off at some point

[@sonicwingnut]

@@paulyg405 I'd probably say the Necromundan Squats ARE said spin-off. But again yeah they've incorporated all that stuff quite well - There's stuff they probably didn't even need to cover like confirming that they're the Demiurg, but it's good to see so much of it tie in and make sense. Really looking forward to seeing their lore develop as well.

[@thewerdna]

its incredibly fitting too that the "Men of Stone" are basically Dwarves.

[@raideurng2508]

Votann also have "dulled" souls that barely resonate in the warp. "The half-life of stone". It is also said the stone men are destroyed in the age of strife, which, to most of the galaxy, would be correct, with only a very small group hidden in the core and rarely interacting with outsiders.

[@nakenmil]

I also like the idea that future-history got muddled together with ancient history, and Ovid and Hesiod's writings about the Golden Age of Men was kind conflated with whatever happened in the 10th-20th Millenna, either by accident, or because someone deliberately referenced it (a bit like the early Imperium deliberately referenced Imperial Rome and the modern Imperium may or may not deliberately or accidentally reference medieval Catholic Europe).

[@scottrubin4478]

I was thinking this too and grabbed my copy of Works and Days. I can't exactly map the 40k versions to Hesiod's ages of men, but I'd love to know how much of it the Games Workshop crew had in mind when creating the different Men.

[@willmosse3684]

It certainly rings of “inspired by”, even if not directly a reference to. The idea of a Golden Age in the past is very ingrained in our own society’s legend/myth trope box. “Men of Gold” definitely rings those bells.

[@ecta9604]

Love me a Stapledon reference, give my boy Olaf the love he deserves

[@Thedagda801]

Oooooooooh! Great stuff!

[@TheKingMgee]

Ian talking about my favourite little skrunkly UR-025 !!

[@medvedec]

Thanks for bringing us quality lore

[@24fretsoffury]

While reading Ancient History, I was SUPREMELY confused. Finished it with a “WTF just happened?!” Feeling. I knew there was something important that I was missing. Googled it and found the Kron is a stone men explanation and it blew my mind. No wonder the AdMech sent assassins deep undercover to root him out. Phenomenal story, love the aspects of 40k that take a little piecing together to understand!

[@beowar]

Just throwing it out there, what if the Custodes are basically modern versions of The Men of Gold. They are hyper genetically engineerd, like was mentioned the Men of Gold would be. What if the Emperor actually lived among the Men of Gold, finally finding men who could approach his level. Then they faltered and eventually the human empire collapsed. In his plan to build the Imperium he knew that he would need trusted companions and made the Custodes in an image of the Men of Gold and then came upon the idea of making the Primarchs as even a step higher.

[@Tsotha]

explains them making a point of wearing golden armour, now that I think of it

[@troym8]

This was truely excellent. Ancient History has been one of my favourite 40k stories for the longest time, so it’s nice to see it getting some love. I also came to similar conclusions reading the votann lore when it came out, great way to tie old mythology with a new faction/lore.

[@Bluecho4]

It would make sense, given the size and complexity of the galaxy, that a lot of old relics from the end of the Dark Age of Technology would persist. Even if no one recognizes them as such, not even themselves. The Leagues of Votann being _A_ kind of Men of Stone - or a human derivation branching off from _A_ template of them - would certainly make a lot of sense. Just because the Men of Stone and Men of Iron were generally "removed from the board", doesn't mean there wouldn't be examples who continue doing their own thing. Survivors living on the fringes, or slipped between the cracks.

[@chrisdavis6598]

I think one of the best things Ian does (this video being a prime example) is to point out the “unreliable narrator” issue 40K law has. There is a real issue with “head cannon” often being taken as “official cannon” when the reality is that the law is whatever it needs to be to sell plastic toy soldiers kits.

[@MsPerser187]

fantastic video, really enjoyed it!

[@Erebusdidnothingwrongish]

Brilliant I LOVE this part of 40K. Thank you kind person 💯❤️😈🤖🇬🇧🫡

[@Nerdy4Life]

In my head the Ancestor Core were the Men Of Stone and the Ironkin were the Men of Iron ... but I think I now might like this version better. Really interesting Ian.

[@ChainsawDunDeez]

Yeah... the theory that the LoV are a side branch/ echo/ decedents/ direct example of the Stone Men + Iron Men allies... fits in so well to the Lore... That I’m sold on it...

[@Yanra_Gold]

The best explanation I've seen in years!! 🔥

[@henryheavy8044]

Can you do a video on power scaling and how the fandom uses it recklessly and how GW writes them ?

[@ShadowDragon1848]

I love the retrospective series!

[@nicholashurst780]

In Tolkien dwarfs (and dwarves) are made of stone by the god of the forge when he gets tired of waiting for humans and elfs (and elves) to teach to do crafts. So Squats as the men of stone fits perfectly with that influence

[@simonhacking]

Very enjoyable roundup. I always thought Stone was a werid word to use for genetically engineered/cybernetic humans, but the Votann connection makes a lot of sense (dwarfs//stone). It makes me think the bits of lore seeded in 3rd edition were there to set up a reimagining of Squats as Men of Stone alongside the other new 3rd ed. armies, but that got put off long enough that they ended up as the Leagues of Votann.

[@billyrandell]

This is my favorite lore question

[@danh945]

Ian, another interesting thing I found about the LoV is their relationship with the warp - using technology to harness the power rather than having psykers directly. This also seems to fit the themes and the timelines (what little we know of it).

[@JamesSaunders-fq3hc]

Great video thanks Ian. I love the way you present all the available lore in a considered and open minded way. And then you leave us to make our own minds up, exactly as Games Workshop intends, rather than telling us what's 'right' and what's 'wrong'. So much more fun that way! Cheers

[@OmegaLittleBob]

Every day I wake up and my mind is blown that we don't have a League of Votann Black Library novel yet.

[@Johnny_Cameron]

Despite getting Black Stone Fortress when it first released, I only just got around to painting my UR-025 mini this week. Weird little coincidence.

[@davydatwood3158]

Even as you were reading the very first bit of lore, I was thinking "this sounds like Tolkien's wizards and then some dwarves." Since that story was almost certainly written before 3rd ed completely gave up on the Squats, I'm inclined to believe that the dwarven feel was deliberate. And it also seems very likely to me that whoever did the main writing for the Votann was consciously looping back to that very first story. Although, the "sentient ships using "men of stone" as their literal arms and eyes" idea would mean that Ancillary Justice and its sequels could be a 40K precurssor... But I feel that series ends on too hopeful a note to be a 40K precursor. And I like the idea that the "men of stone" are beings like the Votann (though perhaps there were variations, since the Votann seem to be tailored for High Gravity environments) who could safely travel the Warp because they were clones. So I'm adopting that as my personal headcanon now. :)

[@justinkong9954]

You would think that a ship made of stone would just sink instead of float in the ocean, but you have to remember back then we had ships made from concrete.

[@Tsotha]

I find all those background details here and there in the 40K lore fascinating, that hint at something even greater and weirder, with the Men of Gold/Stone/Iron mythos being an excellent example so I quite enjoy this video. Interesting how GW writers have since elaborated further and added new characters and factions that pattern match to elements of that mythology, if in very different directions.

[@captainparty]

Great video, I think the context of the lore is just as important as the content and much more interesting than wild theorycrafting for something we are never supposed to have an actual answer to. Still I miss the days where the only way you'd get wild theories on warhammer presented as fact was from someone at the local games shop who's big brother had a friend who has spoken to a guy who's uncle worked for Games Workshop

[@kienesel7]

That...would be kinda perfect as dwarves have always had a strong link with stone.

[@pagancrew]

The British Museum would beg to differ that we only know what happened up to 5k years ago! Either way - fantastic video, this type of analysis is why I love your channel!

[@thescarletpumpernel3305]

The Emperor being the creation of the Men of Gold or possibly a weapon for use against the men of iron that was activated on Terra during the Age of Strife is my favourite origins for him. It just fits the grim dark setting of nothing being what it seems and the idea that a simple tool for the Men of Gold could become a God in the 41st millennium is awesome.

[@Dr_Dastardly]

I love the speculation you can make from these lore tidbits. The men of gold could be custodes precursors. between alan merrett and keeper cripias, being an engineered perfect race that joined the emperor, would imply they were created by him, but could be interesting if they were created by someone else. Possibly someone trying to conquer the stars before big e attempted it back during the age of progress. During Age of technology, if stone men and steel men could be created efficiently, creation of gold men would stop due to impracticality since we know custodes were impractical to create for large scale (hence my space marines were created) and could be the same reason gold men faded. When steel men rebelled ushering in age of strife, big e decided to rebuild/recreate men of gold thus leading to custodes as we know them today.

[@paulsyrah]

I love this video and the 40k lore, however…. A few weeks ago I was at an ancient market in a mysterious village deep in the Surrey rain forest when I found the original first page to Rogue Trader, if genuine it belongs at the beginning of the Rogue Trader book and is believed to read "To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within this book are fictitious and any resemblance to persons living or dead is purely coincidental." The page has been universally condemned by KZbin leaders.

[@Doomrider47]

My favorite theory on the Gold Men is that they were created in the same way the Custodes were.

[@КонстантинИванов-д1д]

just in time for work, tak Ian

[@LuigiHanzo-n4w]

THANK YOU SIR!!! U are the true example of an accurate historian for this subject - great presentation and research !!! plz make more more - ur great at this :)

[@im2randomghgh]

An example of a DAoT AI you missed: the overlord of Amenophis IV

[@1luckandloaded3]

Men of Stone name was a bit mind boggling for me, but after your video pieces fit together. In Tolkien's works and nearly at every other fantasy based work (Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms etc), dwarfs are attributed to stone and/or created from stone. Great video, man. On an other note, Men of Gold made me think that they are psykers with little to no utilisation of technology (at least not to the degree of men of stone), but with innate knowledge of how things works. (like Perturabos or Emperors said skill)

[@johnnybigbones4955]

Very cool. I didn't know that about the Votan that's a great little callback. My headcanon is that the Men of Iron are like the old Chaos Androids, like they're literally Necron Warriors. The Necrons are mysterious AI memetic creature or series of creatures that infect AI creations and turn them into killers. They modify androids and robots with advanced nanotech to make them more effective. The humiform robots of the necrons are the Men of Iron who were once spread throughout the galaxy and the more buglike necrons are either from the original necron culture or some other ancient culture's thinking machines that have been taken over. I like this because it always bugged me that Necrons look like human skeletons. I know it's to reference Terminator, but I think it's cooler if they were created by humans but corrupted by some sort of weird xenos computer virus into something horrifying. It also keeps the Lovecraftian themes a bit better - a strange signal out of space turning your machine servants into killers is right on theme. It also explains why only the naïve Tau use AI - they haven't encountered the necron threat and had it turn against them - yet! Yeah, I know that's not "supported in the lore" but it's my background for my own Necrons.

[@bassboomboing]

Lostloreian. Recordkeeper. Truthsayer.

[@UGNAvalon]

Hmm, are the Elves of Lothlorien actually secretly lostloreian scholars? 🤔 🙃

[@morcbus123]

I hope that books and short stories in coming years explore the Leagues more, and possibly furthers the strong links you have pointed out. It all makes perfect sense, and clearly GW referenced the myth intentionally with that mural business.

[@stevepirie8130]

I’d never heard of this lore before, enjoyed the vid 👍🏻

[@KoW4LsKy]

My head cannon is that man o Stone are Protoservitors you know, before they were grimdarked.

[@Tulkash01]

My theory goes as follows: -The men of gold were a genetically engineered subspecies of humanity that after a while came to rule it (perhaps they were created through a process similar to the one the Emperor later used to forge his own Custodes?). -The men of gold created the men of stone, basically the LoV ancestors, to colonize the wider galaxy. This was before humanity could use warp travel safely, so the men of stone were engineered to have “dim souls” that would not cause demons to come after them while surfing the warp. The men of stone were also gifted with scientific knowledge and helped humanity rise to prominence, thanks in no small part to the creation of the men of iron. -Several fleets of men of stone and iron were sent to colonize the wider galaxy. They mostly succeeded although they probably avoided conflict with major powers like the Eldar empire. -At some point the men of stone rebelled against the men of gold and supplanted them. If they were like Custodes they were probably very powerful but few in number and that could have made the rebellion’s success possible. The men of stone guided humanity to what would be later known as the dark age of technology. -The men of iron rebelled for reasons unknown, possibly because they had sentience and felt like they were being not treated as equals. The men of stone, humanity and several alien empires worked together to defeat the men of iron. They succeeded but the men of stone went extinct. At the same time, the Mechanicus was born and humanity soon entered the age of strife. -Of the original men of stone and men of iron only an isolated splinter survived: those colonists sent to extract resources from the galactic core. A very strict societal order who never experienced the men of iron’s rebellion because the men of iron were still treated as kin. These would be the Leagues of Votann.