Arducopter acro mode trial

[@PiefacePete46]

Wow!... a herd of gooses, a flock of bulls, a swarm of goats, and a clutch of sheds... ALL IN ONE FLIGHT! What a video! 🖖👌👍😄

[@TheAzimba]

Outstanding farm. A dream place to be

[@FinalGlideAus]

It’s been ages since I’ve flown full acro on Ardupilot but I believe without turning a setting off, acro mode still has minor self leveling. There is a setting to remove all self leveling. At the end of the day acro mode is the least of interest to the devs in Ardupilot.

[@perrybaker73]

Yes, thanks Chad for pointing this out, I have found this is true as well. There is still a levelling feature on, even in acro. I'll try and find the parameter.

[@iforce2d]

Yes, ACRO_TRAINER should be zero ardupilot.org/copter/docs/acro-mode.html

[@nabilgravityoxygen]

Hi mate, where in NZ are you located? I moved to Pokeno 2 years ago and I am hoping you are not that far from there. I am also into RC Cars, Plans, Multicopters, ArduPilot, and have been really enjoying and learning from your video for many years. Would be really cool to get in touch to enjoy the hobby. Are you by any chance close to Te Kauwhata as I often visit there?

[@TM_river]

Thank you for the enjoyable video! F450 frame is so vibration that the console often expresses "vibration compensation on", doesn't it?

[@Sergeant898]

I started with a 7" frame and ardupilot just like that. It flew terribly. The arms flexed like crazy and the quad wobbled and oscillated constantly. Built a 7" carbon quad with really strong arms and used iNav. It flies really well and is excellent for 10-20mins long range in acro. Have never gone back to ardupilot.

[@bleeksbentbits3150]

OR, you could try iNav on it! I bought the Eachite Tyro129 (7inch)& it just never felt right on BF. Had troubles with eleaktonickery (3xESC 3xFC I think) I switched to Matek F405se that came flashed with iNav 2.5.1. Watched a Pawel Skychalski clip on basic tuning for 7incher on iNav 2.5 & it now feels awesome AND has minimal jello (if I knew how to tune Im sure it would be smooth as silk) even with a hard-mounted RunCam Hybrid. Figured it may have been dodgy Eachite hardware, flashed BF on & no matter the tune I just couldnt 'connect' with it. 4packs & went back to iNav & now I maintain, bigger than a 5incher? Then go with iNav, even if you DONT want the navigational features & mainly fly it in Acro like me... ;)

[@beefybeef1326]

Totally agree... was going to suggest inav too

[@chemistt]

Yup and also iNav provides decent RTH/RTL function that we tested with a friend and it came back missing the spot only like 20cm

[@johnholland3476]

Very nice flight & setup

[@avsaase]

I think that frame is way too flexible to get good flight performance. I bet you'd have problems with it on betaflight as well.

[@Stambo59]

Those DJI flamewheel and clone frames are renowned for vibrations, I have tried multiple times to get not only clones but even those with genuine DJI arms to fly smoothly and give decent video but was never successful. They now sit on a shelf gathering dust. With Inav improving like it has been, ardupilot seems to be getting left behind.

[@mohsenfazareh3384]

hello thanks for sharing your experience have you ever tried to test the inverted flight with pixhawk?

[@shoutatthesky]

What is that big white strip? A runway?

[@samuelt321]

Yup

[@wezm]

Yep, you can see it being used in this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6XVeolti7GgY8k

[@AerialWaviator]

Love your casual share; explore and experiment in raw video. Example first RTH test at 8:45. No expectations that something might go wrong. LOL. Yet you remain so calm and carry on. (me: 😳🗯) Too bad no way to use the electric fence to charge and extend flying range (14:00). A remote landing/charging pad could be fun, but would be a pretty challenging project. Thanks for the demonstration of confidence. Less fear, more enjoying the moment with the focus on experimenting and learning. I need to do more of this. :) I think the yaw wonkiness is related to the arms having dihedral. Kind of like a V-tail plane with surfaces needing a mix for pitch/yaw if surfaces are not at 90º to each other. With dihedral arms, particularly at speed, front props are near horizontal, while rear are more tilted, so yaw torque acting in different planes. Blackbox data might have some fascinating insights as to how motor pairs are responding at quad speed compared to a position hold scenario. (ie: related to propeller angle of attack to relative flight path airflow) You mention Betaflight a numerous times, but it lacks RTH (just GPS sort-of rescue) and no position hold. Perhaps worth doing an experiment and trying INAV which has true RTH, position hold, cruise (altitude hold), and waypoint mission capability. Betaflight is more gear to racing/freestyle flying audience.

[@LydellAaron]

Wonder whether the leveling was due to some airspeed or altitude, or pitch command autopilot stabilizing parameter.

[@aiurel1987]

Hello at the beginning of the filming, immediately after take-off, a white band can be seen that descends and then ends after a few hundred meters. Is the airstrip for agricultural aircraft?

[@iforce2d]

yes kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6XVeolti7GgY8k

[@LWJCarroll]

Mmmm concrete runway and aircraft hanger at the top? Btw Gordon and I think Neil were talking pros n cons inav versus betalight gps etc at the field last Sunday Thanks Laurie TOK. Missing Tower!….

[@iforce2d]

It's a bin for fertilizer storage, but yeah it would make a great hangar for models!!

[@Toro-Tor]

Goat-Chase, take 1 want more of that

[@jameslamb4573]

Couple of things. How many clips are there out showing, what I believe are, RTH where the altitude is too low and buildings, rocks, trees etc get in the way? Is it easy to set the default altitude on the way home to clear any obstacle? Have you ever considered an aiming system for the FPV system, i.e having an antenna always pointing at the receiver, and the same too with RC Tx and Rx antennae?

[@lezbriddon]

Is it easy to set the default altitude on the way home to clear any obstacle?" - yes, but people often dont...... unless you have tall buildings or giant oaks setting it to 150ft should be good.

[@PiefacePete46]

@James Lamb: I recall a couple in particular: The first was flying where he should not have been, and flew close to a high-rise apartment building... got out of LOS, RTH kicked in, and it flew (crashed) onto a fifteenth floor balcony! The other guy tried to fly around one of those monstrous volcanic monoliths we used to see in the old Westerns... same result, but he got a great video showing what it's like to tumble down a rock face! 😵‍💫 🤬 🥴

[@2torr711]

hey what the concrete strip? Is it a driveway or a landing strip for the a plane?

[@iforce2d]

yes. kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6XVeolti7GgY8k

[@user-yk1cw8im4h]

damn you r still using your i6 after all these years!! referee to your videos back in the day.

[@iforce2d]

Many people make this comment, but nobody suggests why I might need to use something else :) I get 2km easy, which is about all I need.

[@Terry_Fritz]

6:16 Us Mavic pilots would be tilting the gimbal down at that point and sitting still. 😁

[@austntexan]

6:15 Us Mavic *operators* would be tilting the gimbal down at that point and sitting still. 😁 . . . there, fixed it for you.

[@gizfpv]

Great, enjoyable video as always :) but you gotta ditch those Aomway antenna's and get something more modern lol. TBS Triumph pro's are good. Not too expensive but you'll easily double (probably quardruple) your range :)

[@iforce2d]

Yeah I had one of those but haven't seen it for a long time. It might be the one that ended up at the bottom of a river. They do work well.

[@edenrose2374]

those RTL failures seem to be caused by GPS lock issues. Is your GPS antenna getting obstructed or bouncing off a drone surface?

[@iforce2d]

The OSD shows 17 satellites, so I don't see any reason to suspect GPS lock issues.

[@mrbushman2267]

@@iforce2d I think it was the altitude. In that freezed frame it says: "Need alt est". If you look at the altitude in that same frame it's -20m (minus 20 meters). So I suppose it's a safety feature somewhere that needs to be turned off or changed if you going to fly at negative altitudes. I'm not an expert at ardupilot though. Anyway, nice video as always.

[@Username-qx9gk]

Amazed the slow-fly props didn't hit that resonance which produces instant unintended disassembly 😅 gruapner e-prop 👌

[@sarasu5614]

After a long time with s550.❤️

[@gattibox]

What kind of fc do you use? A "drone" stak like mamba or a classic pixhawk?

[@iforce2d]

omnibus f4 pro

[@gattibox]

@@iforce2d many thanks

[@MayaUndefined]

what are your feelings about px4 vs ardupilot?

[@iforce2d]

I don't know anything about px4 sorry, I actually thought it was a hardware like pixhawk until I googled it just now

[@No-el3te]

Hi Sir,if you can,please explain how to stepup arducopter and Skydroid multilink V 1.0

[@PiefacePete46]

There seems to be quite a few people who don't rate the plastic arms on your frame. Maybe when the new CNC is set up for carbon fibre, some new arms could be a project, getting rid of the quadrihedral at the same time? Then again, you never seem to struggle with finding new project ideas! 😉

[@iforce2d]

This is the version with carbon tubes in the arms, probably not the one they're thinking of which is indeed absolutely useless. But it's still more flexible than a little 5 inch.

[@goobisoft4873]

Arducopter on traditional heli would be awesome to see from ur perspective

[@iforce2d]

Yeah it would be fun to try, but too expensive for me.

[@beefybeef1326]

Nice. What batteries are you using? Whats the all up weight of the setup?

[@iforce2d]

Turnigy Graphene but the low amp one, 15C 3S 5200mAh. AUW is 1230g without the DJI camera.

[@beefybeef1326]

@@iforce2d thanks. Ever considered lithium ion packs?. Im trying to build a quad with longest possible flight times and range.... im trying to decide what kind of setup to go for

[@EnglishTurbines]

That big old floppy plastic frame is never going to fly smooth TBF.... SLO fly props...nah ....

[@Felix3301]

Uhh, why not INAV? Seems to fit the bill perfectly for this. Honest question because I am only recently now starting to try ardupilot myself. Having a hard time enjoying ardupilot’s prop wash handling. Don’t get why their code cant do more than 1 khz

[@iforce2d]

The point of this video was to investigate how Ardupilot performs in acro mode when it is not often used for that - if I had done this with something else the whole point of the video would be gone.

[@BuzZ.]

Great vid as always

[@brNX]

Hi, check if the ACRO_TRAINER parameter is set to a value, that can explain why it felt weird

[@iforce2d]

2:42

[@brNX]

@@iforce2d totally missed the caption, sorry, it's weird that it behaves that way if everything was off

[@mistercohaagen]

That RTL is a long way off aye? hehe

[@iforce2d]

I always worry if anyone will notice, and so far my fears are always unfounded.

[@MichelPASTOR]

You have excessive vibrations and/or mag interference that's what is causing the GPS glitches and other issues

[@LeonardThomasHall]

Without the trainer mode turned on there is nothing in the autopilot to level the aircraft. Post a log to the discussion forums and @ me and I will take a look. With a good frame and tune ArduPilot is able to fly Acro as well (better in some ways) than BetaFlight. However, the setup and tuning is significantly more difficult because ArduPilot runs a fully stabilized Acro rather than just a rate stabilised Acro. Finally those arms have long been a real problem as they flex and vibrate. It may be this flex that is causing the aircraft to pitch up when moving quickly.

[@iforce2d]

I also turned off the accel stabilization, so this was gyro only. Perhaps it's simply the dihedral and large props, that push the attitude off target gradually when at high speed. Yes, I think it's worth trying a different frame.

[@LeonardThomasHall]

@@iforce2d Yes if you have used rate only acro then that would explain what you saw. This wasn't intended to be used as more than a testing and tuning mode because to do rate only stabilisation requires a different I term tune. This is a great starting point though. Given your approach to these things I am sure you will very quickly have a well sorted frame and power system. In any case, ping me on the discuss forums when you are ready and I will help you get the most out of what ever design you come up with next!

[@iforce2d]

I tried enabling the accel attitude hold today and it's much better, quite pleasant to fly even with this frame. I'm thinking something around 8-inch prop size like a mavic might be the sweet spot for agility and flight time.

[@LeonardThomasHall]

@@iforce2d Yeh, 8 inch, a ridged carbon frame, BLHeli ESC's is a nice combination for flight time, easy tuning and performance. It tends to give you a little more room for a decent gps when using ardupilot too.

[@mistercohaagen]

Well that was a workout for a certain orifice.

[@ebenwaterman5858]

Sounds like turkeys to me. Do you have turkeys there?

[@iforce2d]

Yes, there were some nearby

[@PiefacePete46]

I didn't think turkeys flew for more than a very short distance? These were definitely a herd of gooses! ;o)

[@ebenwaterman5858]

@@PiefacePete46 Turkeys can't fly as far as geese, but they can fly as far as most other birds. You've got some strange geese that sound like turkeys. What kind are they? Where are you?

[@iforce2d]

@John I think he's talking about hearing turkey noises in the video. There are some at 0:40 - 0:52 on the right hand side, they were probably close enough to hear occasionally.

[@PiefacePete46]

@@iforce2d Aahh... thank's Chris. 😀

[@BuzZ.]

Sheesh

[@Dread-I-Productions]

Drone is self leveing in acro because you picked a frame with upswept arms! IE if you put dihedral on a plane it self levels the exact same laws of physics apply to quads ;) Now if you can find the hobbyking videos talking about that frame from years ago you might hear them refer to that? Made the kk board have SORT OF self leveling capabilities ;) Oh and the bobbing up and down in forward flight? You're overpropping the motors! porps are too heavy pitch is too steep and the motors cant spin up AND down fast enough for smooth flight! Now wheres the plane video? :)

[@jimmyjames1807]

thats wrong , even flown a quad, they not like a plane

[@Dread-I-Productions]

@@jimmyjames1807 No l havnt 0_o what is a quad please? Oh and before you answer have a look at the videos on my channel of me building and flying multirotors from 2007 onwards ;)

[@jimmyjames1807]

@@Dread-I-Productions why the fuck would I check a channel about multi rotors, I've build and flown many multi rotors so I do know what I'm talking about

[@7robertb]

you should not chase animals ...

[@V8ToYy]

drones are used to herd animals alot now, there are specific drones for that on the market.

[@tymoteuszkazubski2755]

As some people pointed out try setting bit 1 on ACRO_OPTIONS to disable attitude loop use in Acro. If it helps check your attitude PIDs as something might be amiss there.

[@iforce2d]

Yes, all that stuff is disabled.

[@tymoteuszkazubski2755]

@@iforce2d I am not sure if this applies to multirotors at speeds but helicopters in hover tend to tilt away from the wind so some amount of aerodynamic counter torque isn't impossible. You can test that by tilting a bit and observing if the quad stops at horizon or tilts backwards as if it wanted to brake. The later would indicate possible aerodynamics involvement (or unexpected use of GPS position hold).