Are Armwrestlers better NOW than BEFORE?

Ray & Janis discuss. In this new age of armwrestling fame are armwrestlers stronger than generations before them?
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[@dude157]

i think it's likely the super heavyweight / open class has likely increased a little bit in level. but the weight classes are probably about the same level, just deeper.

[@williamhanlon9479]

Yeah prime John would still dominate Middleweight and heavyweight be he probably wouldn't be able to beat superheavywheights like he could in the past

[@matthewhaas3263]

The level of arm wrestling is certainly more ENHANCED than years passed. Today’s pullers really shifted into that extra GEAR. Yesteryear’s pullers just don’t have the same JUICE as today.

[@Andreimaran69]

Same juice... Lol U even saw Lupkes? And many others big guys. In the 80's - 2000's they were juicing harder. In US prohormones were available in supplement shops between 2000-2015... 15 years of taking some of the strongest stuff. I saw comments by guys playing sports in highschool and they were taking all kind of stuff. They're like 2 or 3 awrestlers that look like bodybuilders / stongman that are in the top 10... Also Larry Wheels said he took non stop roids for 10 years, 0 off cycle... Even Levan goes off

[@victorlasorsa549]

Agreed😂

[@mynameisnobody3931]

​@@Andreimaran69Larry wheels also said that the top guys nowadays take insane amounts of gear, much higher than you will believe

[@levansaginashviliskidney8726]

​@@Andreimaran69prohormones aren't as powerful as real steroids

[@Andreimaran69]

@@levansaginashviliskidney8726 really? U teach me about it? 🤣 Ask every trainer, bodybuilder, more plates, more dates who U want... If U think Anavar is stronger than M1T and DMZ 🤣 BTW Superdol who was sold in supplement shops is stronger than Tren, Dbol or Anadrol

[@CoreyHack]

Excluding Levan, current level strength and talent hasn't changed much in 40 years. Prime John/Travis/MMT/Jerry/Etc. is giving anyone trouble.

[@bluemonstrosity259]

I think Ermes and Devon might beat everyone you listed just because of how hard they juice. If John went the same route armwrestling history would be different.

[@sinpoeanarconna2974]

But how do you know for sure? The eye test doesnt work in armwrestling.

[@konanabanana2200]

Jerry is in way better shape currently. People forget how infrequent people pulled back then, and you'd expect them to be in 'prime' Current day it's much more of a job where people are constantly training. Current level is absolutely above old level

[@hackerofdoom1996]

Yes but Devon and Ermes beat Denis and Pushkar due to their versatility and endurance.

[@konanabanana2200]

@@hackerofdoom1996 that is part of arm wrestling. That's like saying a 100m sprinter champ lost a 200m race coz of endurance. Well endurance/versatility are all as important as top end strength

[@yannickcolot2319]

there are more information now but people like John would dominate even nowadays

[@sui6160]

depends on division

[@TidusL2]

They would dominate in their respective categories, not like before when you had 90 and something kilo guys winning vs super heavy weights ( it was like being a super heavy weight didn't even matter). Today that is not possible.

[@viktore69]

2006 John would stonewall the 105 and 115 kg class. And then he would be top 3 in supers.

[@andreyvolkov3117]

​@@viktore69105? Yes. 115? Probably not since there is Devon and Evgeny. (Don't get me wrong he would still be at the top but 115kg roided Prudnik would possess a threat to John and Devon would be just too much)

[@viktore69]

@@andreyvolkov31172006 John beats Devon at 115 kg. Devon in supers is different.

[@erichschader1079]

The current seeming necessity of the flop wrist press option indicates the overall level of the field.

[@Justinsox39]

Considering guys like Hutchins are still at the top into an old age i would say it’s close p4p.

[@nickrowe8521]

Right, and Irakli didn't stand a chance against him..he hardly slowed him down

[@levansaginashviliskidney8726]

​@@nickrowe8521Todd of the last few years is definitely stronger than Todd in the past, I think he's just been improving slowly.

[@Om11811]

Well in North America it’s the other way around , the best guys have been the same since like the 90s

[@lsb2623]

I like a simpler idea of arm wrestling. The more "pro" super technical it gets the faster and more incomprehensible it gets... I really love a slow pull leading to a creshendo battle of STRENGTH. Technically out shooting doesn't seem as fun to me as a Brzenk kind of fat wrist badass pull!

[@pavolsopa2136]

Apart from super heavyweights..all classes just got really freaking deep..the level is probably around the same ....especially 75-85/90kg...the competition there is mad...but the giant boys definently leveled Up and Also there IS more of them too... Today supers are crazy op

[@saehammad3849]

Bro I'm very confused.you have told alot of exercises which exercises I should do?

[@mence5992]

It make sense for the divisions. Not for superheavy. In superheavy the level increased a lot

[@J0HNJ0RDAN]

That's why I don't mind King's Move. You have to evolve to survive.

[@priyamhazarika_]

Hey Ray, please help me. What should i do if i dont have enough weights? Should i do singles with light weights or should i do multiple reps? Also, should i do those reps just how we do singles or should i do that sitting on a chair? And should i do those reps till failure or do i keep the weights down as soon as i feel the burn.

[@joshtheflatearthjedi222]

Make a water bag to use for weight if you have to, there are many things you can use that are heavy in place of weights.

[@torandrefjsne5296]

Advancements in Training and Technology: Athletes and teams have access to better training techniques, equipment, and facilities than ever before. Sports science and technology continue to evolve, allowing athletes to optimize their performance and recovery. Increased Participation: More people are participating in sports at all levels, leading to a larger talent pool and more competition. This increased participation fosters a culture of excellence and pushes athletes to constantly improve. Professionalization of Sports: The professionalization of sports has led to increased investment in training, coaching, and athlete development. Professional leagues and teams have higher standards and attract top talent from around the world. Globalization: Sports have become increasingly globalized, with athletes from different countries and cultures competing against each other. This diversity brings new perspectives, styles, and techniques to the competition, driving innovation and improvement. Media Coverage and Sponsorship: The widespread coverage of sports through television, internet, and social media has increased exposure and interest in athletics. This heightened visibility attracts more sponsorship and funding, which further fuels the development of sports. Athlete Lifestyle: Many athletes today lead highly disciplined lifestyles focused on physical fitness, nutrition, and mental preparation. This dedication and focus contribute to their continual improvement and success in competition.

[@viktore69]

SHW division is the only ones that has really made the level go up. LWH and HW is pretty much the same. Look at John Brzenk, take 2006 version of John and he stonewalls the 105 and 115 kg division. And he would probably be top 3 in supers behind Levan and maybe Devon.

[@JohnDoe-tl2cy]

Above guys like Ermes, Vitaly and Georgi?

[@pavolsopa2136]

Big boys with big structures pushing their health to reach new levels...people in normal classes like 75 or 90 cant do that ..they just simply hit their limit...the limit for a top Champ from 20y ago is just simply around the same AS todays Champ in the same class..the most dominant champs in supers today are super Huge..mostly the bigger the closer to top 5..devon is an exception but he is still pretty big...there was some giant people way back then but not this many with such resources..

[@quiet216]

@@JohnDoe-tl2cymaybe? It’s all speculation. I look at it like - John beat prime Bagent - we saw great shape Bagent flash a great shape Chaffee in 2016 - we saw a weaker Chaffee bring Ermes to the b side of the table. We saw a weaker Chaffee give hell to Genadi and Morozov and Vitaly in 2022. So if John beat the best of Travis that beat a prime Chaffee (2013-2016), I just assume John is in the picture. Also John beating prime Farid in 2006 in his strong point. We saw Farid recently beat Vitaly in AMC in a round if I remember correctly.

[@Jmldnd1]

I don't think so 2006 John would lose to Vitaly,Ermes,Devon,Genadi, Georgi,and Levan

[@rjharrold2907]

​@@quiet216Bagent was at his best in 2016. John would get his ass kicked by that Travis

[@joemarley5982]

Table IQ is generally much higher now than it was. Besides all the drugs and specialized lifts that's the big difference I see. John had such great success when he was young mostly due to his incredibly high table IQ. Most pullers back then didn't really understand the nuances of the sport to the same degree as now. Just my opinion. Obviously I can't prove it.

[@igorsvacic217]

Agree with Janis. There were less top level ppl, but those that were, would be still top level in any era. Yea, probably, if we talk who would be champion, provbably in all categories 70% of champions would still be those that are today, but I can see 20-30% of champions being from all different eras even today. There were allways those that really stood up above the reast. And, if we consider those ppl living today would be taking same struff, same training of today, then theres no point in talking at all. No one has advantage. Actually, if I had to go with anyone I would say that the older we go, those ppl would have advantage, simply because of tewstosterone level that is down by a mile in today ppl. Than again, if they lived today, they would have smaller levels, since they would eat the foods of today, with all that estrogen etc.

[@Webmaster070]

Now you have much more 150kg+ guys in SHW division that train purely for AW, back then that wasnt the case. Even HW category you can say stayed the same for example prime voevoda would def be top 3 today in HW or prime Travis would prolly be no1 left HW puller today.

[@Andreimaran69]

They were before also, bodybuilders, strongman, but they weren't good. Even today in the top 10 superheavyweights, who are the 150 kg's guys? Tsvetkov who is not all muscle and been the same since 2013... Revaz who is under 145, Genadi around 140, Denis 128, Ees the same, Laratt around 120-125, Laletin 130 something, we don't have 150 kg's bodybuilders

[@Webmaster070]

Idk what the hell youre talking about@@Andreimaran69

[@shakya00]

I'm a child of KOTT1 so I can't really compare how it was a few decades ago. But the argument of Janis about the fact that the level is not higher now because some old stars are still doing great isn't valid IMO. It would only work if these guys have retained the same level or are below their prime. Old stars such as Michael Todd (before his current injury), Devon Larratt, Todd Hutchings are in fact in their prime. The only one it could be valid for is John Brzenk who might not be at his prime but if we compare to how great he was relative to his peers...he is doing much worse today. So, we don't really have a good comparison and Armwrestling is a weird sport where age isn't a disadvantage (to a certain point). And John himself recognized how well the level grew. He knows a Prime John wouldn't be as impressive today as it was. Beating the best guys several weight categories above isn't a sight we see anymore with the professionalization of the sport. To some degree we could talk about Oleg Zhokh but it was a decade ago and he has an obvious genetic abnormality that gives him a massive advantage.

[@quiet216]

John is struggling today because of his severe arthritis in his shoulder. He said he has trouble getting out of bed in the morning because of it. Plus he’s off of his inflammatory medication because it was shown to increase heart attacks in people. Stem cells only temporarily work for his shoulder. And on top of all of that his training group nowadays is not as good compared to his past. In the past he was training with Hutchings, Ron Bath, Fisher and more. Now he’s training with Dustin Allen and that Jamaican dude mostly.

[@Papaspronator]

@@quiet216not only that. But also John retired for years and so did Denis and Alexi. I think the guys that stayed with it are all still really good late 50’s to even 60. Where as the guys who retired for a while struggle now.

[@herum_lungerer73]

Today all information is available. So more people get to a certain level, with medium genetics, good work athic and money for the good stuff. Back then, talent was much more a deciding factor. Devon, Matt, John, Ron Bath, Hutchings, Jerry, Vitaly, Denis, just to name a few that everybody knows. They have Alien- frames. Show me guys like this coming up today.

[@thureintun1687]

the Internet is a bless for everyone who want to learn But it's still a bless for trolls and also cyber espionage, which is sad

[@jacobneuman6161]

Super heavy weights are definitely on another level , you might be able to say they’re equal w the weight classes though . but no one from the past is touching levan .

[@armbullytv]

The level right now is twice as high as 2014

[@jameswheeler6954]

Ron bath still going 💪

[@JohnSmith-uh6cs]

I didnt hear what you said RaY

[@justaguyfromreddit]

well, current superheavyweights are definetly on a different level

[@OriginalUser2023]

Hi Martino, prime Richard Lupkes vs Ermes, what do you think?

[@quiet216]

We saw a weaker neck injury Chaffee give trouble to Genadi, Morozov. Beaten Vitaly in 2022 and pushed Ermes near the pad. Dont you think prime Chaffee would’ve beaten those guys? We saw Denis beat prime Chaffee. We saw Travis flash potentially prime Chaffee in 2016. We saw John beat the strongest version of Travis Bagent in 2005.

[@evandernilsen2579]

@@quiet216 dont think he was much weaker then atleast in his right arm but he said that he had nerve damage in his left

[@Papaspronator]

@@OriginalUser2023Ermes easily. Devon used to beat Lupkes and he is far stronger now. Lupkes didn’t have much technique. I think Lupkes VS current Zaur could be a good match though.

[@madmanslayz6076]

i’d like to believe that every physical sport that involves strength/size is on gear. if we all give these people a dna test and then divide them by natural/unnatural. the amount of natural people left are extremely low but alot of people dont even know what gear is so they assume the top ones on the ranks arent even juiced which is really sad because they train for over 20 years then blame their genetics when its really just gear

[@mcfarvo]

It will be a sad day when people forget the greatness of John Brzenk

[@joshtheflatearthjedi222]

Will Janis ever compete on big stage again?

[@LaddRusso91]

I think the average lvl is better but the elite level of the past would still be elite now.

[@WahyuSaputra-jm5bb]

I like this sport of arm wrestling since I know arm wrestling exercises such as pronation curl, reverse curl fat bar, barbell wrist flexion, and barbell curl, my forearms are very developed and pumps What's very unusual is that these are even crazy pumps. So I will do this arm wrestling exercise on my pull day so I combine streelifitng & arm wrestling NOW.💪🥇😁🔥🤝

[@Pepe-pq3om]

Short awnser: no.

[@Papaspronator]

They didn’t say no at all lol. They said yes the average talent level is much higher just the very top guys aren’t necessarily much higher.

[@michaelwest2677]

Natural or juiced 🤔

[@demianseale501]

Human being takes thousands of years to evolve. The superior level is due only to evolution of training methods, diet and “supplements”

[@ryanturner8577]

Yes. They start earlier, have more wisdom from coaches of old, more gear, more training with better understanding of nutrition and biology, better surgeons, better recovery methods with peptides and stem cells, and the internet more connected than ever to learn and watch. Despite this though, it is still amazing how well the older guys can still compete on a high level with all of this in mind. So as much as the sport has grown and advanced in all areas, the curve isn't that much greater. They're just a bit better with youth on their side.

[@NicolasAlcalde]

Clearly they aren't. John is 60, with a long list of neverending injuries, and still competitive with the world title holders in his weight class. Imagine what he'd be doing to them if he was 30. Hutchins is 60 and was just holding the title. Devon is 50 and a top 3 super heavyweight. Just like it used to be, the vast majority of athletes have one move they're good at and never try anything else.

[@OriginalUser2023]

Yup, if Levan thinks, only because he lifts way heavier, he will beat Devon easily, then he has to google Richard Lupkes. Richard Lupkes was strong af. But he wasn't the best arm wrestler by a long shot.

[@Bomb6A9Head]

just look at Devon, before his steroid transformation he used to be top and relevant. the modern juice era would destroy someone like that, for example wild horse. he never wanted to go full high dosage tren cycle so the competition ran over him

[@stuartmackay9270]

Arm wrestling has evolved, there was no way John Brzenk was stronger than Cleve Dean, but he found. Way to beat him, Devon destroyed John because he found. Way to beat him, peak john vs peak levan would be no match, some greats will never be the same again, tsyplenkov, voevoda, lupkes, arsen.... The sport has grown and all sort of substances and treatment seem are allowed as well as arm that don't fully straighten, plus the bending of the rules, you just can't compare old for new....

[@ArmwrestlingDogo]

There is no good new talent in North America right now compared to Europe. The future is looking good for Europe.

[@stefancristiancristea923]

They just juice better 🤭

[@Papaspronator]

That is a factor of course but it’s more than that. Training knowledge and techniques have evolved as well as the pool of talent from around the world. The sport is growing in many ways.

[@ita149750]

Absolutely NONE of the top guys from Wal would be in the top 15 nowadays. Devon, Todd etc, none of them. But anyone from the current top 10 would wipe the floor with anyone from the Wal

[@Andreimaran69]

Because WAL never had the best guys and that's a fact. But look John, Laratt, Chafee did good, John got older and injured and the same goes for Chafee... Travis isn't active... Jerry is from WAL and won Vs Genadi and Tsvetkov. Ferit did some upsets at AMC

[@Papaspronator]

Are you joking? Devon, Todd Hutchins, and Jerry are all top guys in the world today.

[@ita149750]

@@Papaspronator Devon did an insanely huge leap forward from his Wal version to be competitive in today's arm-wrestling. The Wal Devon was 50% weaker than current Devon. Two completely different categories. Uncle Todd isn't a super heavy weight. And jerry is more like a stylistic anomaly more than anything else. Many arm-wrestler got caught by surprise when they are pulling with him due to his style. But once you understand how to pull against him he's really easy to beat. He's just weird, not strong or good.

[@Papaspronator]

@@ita149750 so you are talking strictly super heavyweights then. I would agree. A lot of that is the drug use though. Devon wasn’t juicing back then like today and the same thing with many others. That’s the biggest difference.

[@armwrestlingsecrets]

No. It’s more confusing than ever for young arm wrestlers now. Too much information, too many opinions.

[@Papaspronator]

This may be a good point. But there is way more information if you are willing to sift through it all and put in the work. So I think it may be a blessing and a curse.

[@kaossverige]

Whats up with Janis? What is his bone with Devon? Was it before or after Sandris Arm Wars event where Devon was being funny for Janis not preparing him well enough? Whatever is his bone with Devon it was pretty clear on Devon's match with Georgi and in other content that you create for quite some time with him. Avoiding speaking of Devon or making Devon seem "smaller". In reality Janis becomes EXACTLY what he tries to imply or insinuate about Devon. Oh here is your bone Janis. Pick it up!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@SteroidKidney-xp3zy]

Nowaday armwrestlers makeeee luvvvvv with a juiiiiccee