Are Atlus Business Practices Unethical?

[@H2DK]

I love ATLUS. I'm not paying for the answer.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

I have a sealed copy of FES on my shelf that’s cheaper than the expansion pass 😎

[@Devanlikeseven]

I paid $100 for the digital deluxe edition just for them to announce The Answer a month later. Nah they can keep it.

[@conicthehedgehog9166]

I was so shocked to see the price of persona 3 reloaded when i realised that the answer isnt even included in the game

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

You and me both lol

[@conicthehedgehog9166]

@@SnarfsSoldier17 i assumed that "umm so its probably 20 more for the answer" but hell no

[@PhoenixDecim]

I've learnt to wait for a year or two to get it at 50% discount. I don't want to pay full price twice for their poor management and taking advantage of us.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

I love them but after buying the P3R ce I got done dirty and I’m “probably “ waiting a month or two for metaphor

[@Yoshi278]

ATLUS is definitely one of the most aggressive when it comes to anti-consumer practices (I love not being able to play Persona on my steam deck because I have no net while taking the train). Say anything negative about this though and the ATLUS consoomers will rage at you. Leave a negative review and they'll say its review bombing. The worst thing for me was Persona 3 Portable. The absolute lack of any care for that, tricking people into buying right before dropping P3R trailer really shits me off.

[@hathy8]

Great to see the new video is doing well brother!

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

Thanks for checking it out 🫡

[@Cool_story_bro_nobody_cares]

Yea idk I can think of far worse gaming places then atlus to be honest

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

Capcom as of today seems to be testing this lol

[@mausebas]

Haven't hit play yet but Yes, and so are most business practices nowadays every company hates their customers so much it's unreal

[@deesnyder8201]

smt 5 Vengeance is such a huge slap in the face for those of us who got the original game when it came out and instead of being excited for it I was just kind of annoyed when I heard abt it.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

Yeah I bought the collectors edition for that and now I’m being put in a position to have to get it again. Not totally unexpected given the track record but it’s more of a here we go again and I reluctantly buy it but ultimately enjoy the game. Plus it has to have a better story than base V right? 😅

[@deesnyder8201]

@@SnarfsSoldier17Maybe??? But honestly I have pretty low expectations. I'm also kind of skeptical of how much of the new route is actually new as well. Judging by trailers, it seems like we're most likely going to explore all the same areas we did in the base game + like one new area. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of in-between gameplay outside of boss battles is very similar to base game but thats just a guess and I easily could be wrong. If I ever play this version of the game at all I'm pirating it bcus I refuse to support this type of shit.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

@@deesnyder8201 you forgot we can only bring 3 demons over too lol. Which is ridiculous but I only really need crit monster yoshitsune. Also don’t really blame you either.

[@fluxk7506]

You do know you get 2 games with SMTVV right. Like you get the base game, and a whole new game, for the price of 1 new game. if they wanted to they could have just released the new content as a $70 game. but no they included the base game. If you stop to think about it you get the base game for $60 and another 80 hours of gameplay for $10

[@pjs232]

To be honest, I just don't see this as an "ethics" issue. Unethical business practices are things like where you suppress the competition, bribe people to unfairly get contracts or jack up the prices of goods that people have no choice but to keep paying for in order to milk more profit out of them (like medicine) and they cannot refuse. Persona 3 Reload just isn't a necessity to anyone though. Nobody is being forced to buy it. Nobody is going to die if they don't play it. It's a luxury good. Therefore the only price that matters is what Atlus want to charge for it and what people will pay for it. If Atlus think people will pay separately for dlc, they are within their rights to charge for their work developing it. If that price is too high for you, you are within your rights to decide not to purchase the dlc. The real problem is that people have unrealistic expectations and dare I say it a certain sense of entitlement that just isn't justified.

[@naproupi]

Thank you, I am getting tired of people acting like that kind of stuff is the end of the world. Yakuza 8 dares to sell new game + for 10 bucks ? Wow so what ? It's a 100 hours game, most of us will never get to NG+ Same shit here The fact of the matter is, their games are good enough to get away with that, that's all. When a single game offers me more enjoyement and gameplay than 3 others game combined, paying a bit more for it doesn't sound crasy to me. If all games have to be worth the same then why would any company bother to make quality games ? Just do a EA and sell shit for 70 with a lot of marketting, it's way more cost effective.

[@thegameowl11]

Yeah, from my knowledge, calling this unethical is a stretch

[@saxor96]

Splitting up already done stuff to be sold separately is still a scummy business decision, no matter how you paint it. It's bad in the level of Lootboxes and other harmful business practices? Of course not. But it doesn't make it good.

[@saxor96]

Also, the "You're not forced to have it so it's not unethical" never worked as an excuse. A scam is a scam no matter if the thing being sold is a necessity or a commodity, or just consumption.

[@flaminginferno6641]

​@@saxor96But this isn't a scam at all, at best it's kinda scummy. You might *feel* scammed, but it still isn't one.

[@bedmar2643]

So true, Atlus is one of those companies who takes advantage on the consumer so bad, just like those Day one DLCs, I feel bad for the people that bought the collector's edition that claimed they would get all DLCs yet they announce a new one a month later, anyways It's Atlus, they don't surprise me anymore

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

It’s not even just Atlus anymore. I really think out of principle that people who get collectors should have got the answer with it as a thank you for spending max money on it. That is a however a pipe dream in these times lol.

[@bedmar2643]

@@SnarfsSoldier17Sad but true, i suppose Sega/Atlus ain't satisfied with the game's profit lol

[@deathkillrt]

The newest SMT5V is like a slap in the face compared to it's Switch version. Looks way more complete and fun.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

Me who bought the smt v and p3 reload collectors editions 🤡

[@deathkillrt]

@@SnarfsSoldier17 I have way more pokemon games than i need, like both versions of samish games, so for me Pokemon has opened my eyes to these pratices.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

@@deathkillrt I haven’t played a lot of Pokémon recently and violet nearly tanked my switch lol but yeah they’ve got their own issues don’t they

[@webwalkerz2048]

It may be overpriced, but it is some F@&# good overpriced stuff, get your point tho, but also this is the best way to play p3 so I'm just going to be happy about it!

[@bruhperson459]

in persona 5 you had multiple costumes that come from multiple persona and smt games, and with each one you put on joker, a song, mainly the battle one, would play each time you fight an enemy. and now in persona 3 reload, you only have the persona 4 and 5 costume/music choices. I know it doesn't have much to do with the video but it's just a shame the smt costumes didn't make a return. IS WHAT I WOULD BE SAYING IF ATLUS DIDN'T PULL THE PERSONA 5 AND PERSONA 4 MUSIC DLCS OUT OF THEIR ASS

[@justanotherpxrson]

I feel like SEGA as a whole is on the path of ruining franchises with greed and its really sad to watch.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

When I heard Jet Set Radio was going to be live service I just shook my hand lol. They have some incredible franchises under their belt so I just hope they understand the backlash and make changes. We’ll see!

[@justanotherpxrson]

@@SnarfsSoldier17where did you hear that? if so, thats a shame.

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

mynintendonews.com/2023/11/03/segas-super-game-may-include-crazy-taxi-or-jet-set-radio-live-service-games/ found through twitter

[@justanotherpxrson]

@@SnarfsSoldier17Yuck. Thanks for the link, I don't use twitter anymore so I miss stuff like this. I guess I will be skipping it if this turns out to be true.

[@tonyknighton4019]

@@SnarfsSoldier17 For real??? Well I hope those idiots at Sega will taste bitter defeat.

[@Tarvitz92]

I'll be waiting to see if they offer The Answer as a separate purchase down the line, definitely not a release purchase for me. The current pricing is absolutely ridiculous considering it's two waves of costumes and BGMs before the actual content. I think the pricing for SMT5V is reasonable considering that you get the base vanilla game and the new story route with old DLC for 60$ (that's an easy couple hundred hours of content and we'll get actually good FPS on other systems) I simped for the digital deluxe for 70$ as I had some extra funds at the time and wanted to get the preorder out the way. I also couldn't resist it after seeing the Dagda DLC (Really hoping for a serious fight, Nahobino VS Creator God Nanashi and Dagda, that would be hype) It is getting a little sad seeing all these cool fights locked away behind 10$+ mini DLCs. SMT has had a serious issues with singular fights being sold for up too 10$ since the release of IV on the 3ds. They had the Arch Angel Clipped wings DLCs 1/2 and if I'm remembering correctly there was also an Ancient of Days, a big chaos boss, and Masakado DLC. SMT4A had Mephisto, Cleopatra, and then arguably the best DLC SMT where we actually got more than just a immediate fight was Messiahs in the Diamond Realm. Something seriously needs to change because locking away all these really cool encounters and fusions behind paywalls is getting insulting. The only way I see anything being done about it is if the JP community starts fighting back hard against Sega Asia. One interesting thing I saw during the release of Dragon Quest Monsters 3: The Dark Prince was various polls on different JP sites that asked whether they were going to buy the DLCs (pretty much grind DLCS very similar to SMT ones) and most of the polls were 80%+ had voted a hard yes! Take that with a grain of salt but that was a little disappointing to see. If the JP market is so wiling to buy all these mini day one DLCs then it will NEVER change for the translated community no matter how much we voice against it.

[@backupschmliff1156]

What do you get out of preordering a DIGITAL version...?

[@shinyanakagawa8241]

What are you describing right now is the gamepass for xbox. You could purchase Episode Aegis as a standalone dlc separated from the costume and bgm contents. I dont know about xbox, but you can definitely purchase Episode Aegis separately on PS5.

[@Kazketch]

Well in xbox game pass all the dlc is free right now, like, free for life, it goes in your account, not the subscription

[@TempestKnight-cx5f]

Grabbing popcorn

[@BaulModeus]

They didn’t intend on making The Answer until people began asking for it. It takes more time, and money to make modern games. Games are not a necessity, you don’t have to buy it, you can watch the entire story on KZbin if you want. If they delay a game by 1-2 years are you willing to pay $100 for that game or are you still expecting a $50-60 product? When people say “complete” games they like to reference the old days of the NES/SNES/PS1 not realizing how many of those games were busted and unable to be patched, if you wanted an upgrade guess what you were buying a whole new full priced game. How much of a person’s work are we entitled to for free? How many of you go above and beyond at work on a consistent basis for the same pay?

[@emblemblade9245]

Bro did NOT grow up in an era without DLC. You do not know the value of your money, and you are disrespecting the hell out of classic games with nothing to back it up.

[@deviantknight7009]

I stopped playing p3R after they gave me nothing but an envelope and reset my back to zero after beating it on merciless. Loving Unicorn overlord though

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

Heard that was excellent. Havent been too big on SRPG since FF Tactics though lol

[@Allangronkjaer]

Nope

[@heroicgangster9981]

I like the re-releases, they are worth the second purchase of good games since the bonus content is substantive. But bruhhhhh. The Answer being paid DLC and we don't even have that much costumes to begin with compared to the Dancing Games????? They should've included the rest of the Dancing costume assets if they wanted to charge $35!!!

[@Exarch_Of_Justice]

Im not sure why your singling out Atlus in this. Bandai game have been even more terrible to me. Selling you expensive Season Pass only to add one more 20-30$ dlc not included in the pass wich usually is the "Final Story DLC" But yeah im not paying for The Answer either. THey cant even include Female MC for that initial price that.

[@user-pb2fg4sd7n]

Hell yeah, drama

[@SnarfsSoldier17]

🤭

[@backupschmliff1156]

I generally give ATLUS a bit of a pass with a lot of their rerelease practices because they as a company are really really loyal and supportive of their devs, and I personally enjoy seeing them take the game and push it forward or flesh it out in a new way. In the midst of thousands of layoffs, they gave company-wide ~15% raises to all their employees, which is such a massive win for the devs who have been pumping out these games. I never buy non-story DLC, collector's / digital deluxe / or whatever edition of games, so that stuff doesn't really affect me. Though, they should've absolutely given a DLC pass in the $200 version, but like I said, why purchase it in the first place...? For the day-one Soul Hackers 2 and P5T DLC, I just waited until they were heavily discounted as a way of protest. It also helps that ATLUS games are always polished and bug-free. Regarding Episode Aegis, I might wait until it's discounted a little bit. Honestly, I'm more annoyed with the brain-dead consoomers, who purchase $200 versions and then whine about DLC, than I am with ATLUS. If they want it to stop, STOP FUCKING BUYING IT EVERY TIME. They can get Aegis figurines and soundtrack CDs whenever they want. It's not going anywhere. I like new versions and quality DLC, therefore, I buy it. I don't like digital deluxe or collector's editions that give you a bunch of junk and alternate music(why would you even want to listen to the P4 or P5 battle theme when playing P3...?), therefore, I don't buy it. I don't care about costumes or any fluff stuff, therefore, I don't buy it. It's so easy to not support this stuff but for some reason these hypocrites just can't help themselves.

[@pmurphz]

Just re p3r and rhe answer, its all free with a gamepass subscription. If that wasnt available I'd probably consider them less ethical tbh The way saves didnt cross between p5 and p5r was awful. They were both sold at one point at full price, as if theyre seperate games altogether. It wouldve been more ethical to provide it as an expansion to be honest

[@flaminginferno6641]

Well that wouldn't have worked because there was additional content that was added into the base game, if you transfered your save to Royal you'd still have to play the entire game over again to experience the new content, that's not even getting into all the balance changes and shit that were added in Royal, while on the surface they are the same game there is such a mountain of changes that saves could not smoothly transition between them, as nice as that would be

[@pmurphz]

@@flaminginferno6641 Yeah you're right. Just wish there was a better way around it. Definitely stung having to buy another standalone game

[@madjik1979]

It's possible for something to be "The way things have been for years" and still be unethical at the same time, they aren't mutually exclusive. You can't change things by being complacent. I won't be buying the answer either.

[@flaminginferno6641]

I think there needs to be a distinction between Atlus and Sega made here, Sega owns Atlus, they are the ones who decide most things, the reason why P3R and it's DLC are so expensive are much more likely Sega's doing and not Atlus, Sega has a history of overpricing shit pretty regularly and have been doing so for years, they also have a history of rushing out products far before they are ready, so again, It's much more likely the reason why things get cut so often in Atlus's games, they have deadlines that are probably pretty set in stone, like yes i can see why you think it's scummy, but I think we're barking up the wrong tree here.

[@conicthehedgehog9166]

Well, looking at what theyre doing with sonic by making unfinished or exclusive games i understand you

[@SilverTypo5081]

Gamers when additional story that and is expensive too develop for and most players wont even play cost money. It unethical apperently

[@12345678abracadabra]

Cut content is not confirmed. Game dev is not cheap. You guys CHOOSE to pay for the collectors edition instead of the base one. That's on you to buy freaking statue and thinking you should also get DLC. Dont get me started on femc. It's not just a skin swap. Its all new social links, animations, voice acting. No, you guys are just entitled. You might as well expecting games to be free. Hell, you probably want to be paid to play games. Game dev crunch, isn't that something we've all been trying to fight against? Expecting stuff to be free is not solving that. P3R is ALREADY a 60+ hour game. Answer might add another 20-30 hours. Is that not good enough?

[@fluxk7506]

day 1 dlc is almost never finished content removed form the final product. 95% of the time it was something the team wanted to add, but couldn't fit in the games budget or time table. It is content that keeps team members employed while the project leads start on the next game. but things cost money so that's why you pay for the content.

[@FuckYouTube00]

I personally don't think Atlus is being unethical with their practices, to be honest if they don't release Persona 3 Reload FES or something I feel $35 for Episode Aigis isn't egregious but knowing atlus they totally will, oh well I got my $135 Album with a game included so I'm content

[@afknh]

In a world where people buy $30 for cosmetics multiple times a year I really don't care that a 30 hour+ DLC is getting released after the fact.

[@lordpotato9529]

Yeah if you're shitting yourself over 30 bucks to begin with, I think buying a video game is dead last on your list of priorities lol

[@conicthehedgehog9166]

@@lordpotato9529 "some people spend a lot of money on games, so why arent the games 100 dollars ?" Nope that logic does not apply here, not every game should be worth the monthly wage of people from south America, considering persona 5 is 20 dollars lmao

[@SilverTypo5081]

​​@conicthehedgehog9166 Persona 5 is only 20 dollars due to it age. When it wqs relised it was just as expensive as reloaded. Plus when addition content is added to persona games it usually is in a re-release that cosy more than the original. Seriously this isn't that bad

[@emblemblade9245]

A world where people pay $30 for cosmetics multiple times a year is not a world that should continue

[@leafmanwithafryinpan]

Most game developers have what can be seen as predatory practices. In todays gaming culture, a $30 game gets you like 10 hours of content, and a $60 game gets you 30 hours. Atlus doubles and triples that playtime per dollar. All devs have microtransactions, which may be bad, but it just so happens that when Atlus does it, it may seem worse and more noticeable, not because whether or not its worse than what other devs do (which its not), but because Atlus is already so much better than most other game devs that its easier to notice their potential flaws. At the least, Atlus knows how to make fun good games, which is a rarity in todays AAA gaming society.

[@Yoshi278]

What are you yapping about? Do you think AAA is exclusively EA and Ubisoft or something?

[@SilverTypo5081]

​@@Yoshi278 they are saying that this isn't that bad compared to the rest of the industry

[@emblemblade9245]

You need better standards and way more alternate franchise exposure if you think Atlus provides the best bang for buck in its games.

[@kevinrakaGameDev]

i'll pay for the answer because i love persona