Are Brain and Mind the Same Thing? | Episode 1005 | Closer To Truth

[@jklep523]

I spend most of my time in society feeling like a freak, an outsider. I so appreciate this space because , here, I find others who share the all consuming quest to better understand what it is to be conscious, to better understand, what is consciousness. Thank you RLK

[@jeffforsythe9514]

You are a precious soul.

[@thinkingisfundamental]

That's a good thing! The world hasn't been changed by the " Normal." Whether it be in science,art, philosophy, etc..

[@jaylucas8352]

Yea, same. Most people are just like whatever

[@Mrlocal2011]

We all like mind people has to connect on some social media platform and make a group I would say.

[@meowrellacatee9028]

It is indeed nice to be able to immerse yourself into communities like this one, where you are not perceived as a weirdo or an "alternatively gifted" person :)

[@TactileTherapy]

"we get Closer to Truth this way." He said the thing!

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@alaalfa8839]

Dr Joe Dispenza: "Mind is brain in action."

[@MrJuot234]

What gets me is my ability to become conscious within a dream world. Lucid Dreaming. My mind becomes aware in an unconscious state. My brain is sleep so to speak...but I'm interacting within a world it created.

[@MrJuot234]

@Julez O'Neil so you are aware of all your dreams, able to control them?

[@MrJuot234]

@Julez O'Neil Well it’s more than just a drifting a character…I don’t consider myself aware until it actually clicks in that I’m dreaming. And I’m able to do a multitude of things consciously while I reside there.

[@christopherhayes1369]

I was able to lucid dream regularly as a child but very rarely these days

[@MrJuot234]

@@christopherhayes1369 When I set the intention, it always happens. Even astral projection. Something has to really compel me to do it.

[@gordonmutten1750]

I have the same thoughts. In fact I believe that when dreaming our minds are receiving help possibly from our higher self. Because even when conscious I am incapable of thinking up a story, then putting into symbolic form, in real time, and then experiencing it as though I were living in it, all speeded up as you can dream a lot in a short time. It's beyond me when fully conscious!

[@isaiasferrer932]

RLK is one of the most deep and interesting person I ever listened.

[@playpaltalk]

I love that view of learning from talking and listening to those we desagree the most.The brain is the material part of mind that you can measure.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

"The brain is the material part of mind that you can measure". Another way of saying the same thing is... The brain is the material substrate of the mind and so can be measured. I think it has become something of a cliché to say 'the mind is what the brain is doing'. Nevertheless, seems to me extremely likely that that cliché reflects the actuality better than any of the theories I've heard discussed on Closer to Truth (and I've heard many). Cheers, eh.

[@scottlouissmith2382]

This is what everyone should do, ask questions and question answers!

[@plekkchand]

Yes- this narrator is intelligent and intellectually honest. Very refreshing.

[@tvwanderer7729]

Asking question itself assumes causality, bounded by language

[@iphonesuzy6790]

Or everyone could get a vasectomy and then the human race would cease to exist. As a result zero people would have zero problems. 💀👶🤮💀👍

[@kuzonio]

But why?

[@contemplativepursuits]

Brilliantly put

[@jamesnasmith984]

I found this episode the most helpful exploration of this fascinating and compelling quinumdrum of life.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@ansleyrubarb8672]

,,,Please I would like to share an event and an observation. Many many years ago, when my Grandmother passed away I reached this conclusion. Observing her body lying in the casket was an empty shell. That which made her, her, her spirit was not in that empty shell. Many years later I had a vision. My Grandmother, her son, my Uncle, my mother, her daughter, and my Father were all together. They were riding in a 1953 Chevy, my Uncle driving, and my Mother and Father in the back seat, while my Grandmother was in the front seat. They were laughing, having a great time enjoying one another. What a wonderful Blessing. It was not like that in real life. I am still blown away by this marvelous experience. Respectfully, Chuck, ...captivus brevis... Blessings...

[@trubador09]

"It's an open question whether the brain can entirely explain the mind. But, I should speak with those whom I disagree. That's the best way to learn."

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Not to me. The brain is directed by the mind(the soul.)

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@JayakrishnanNairOmana]

Dear Dr. Kuhn, I believe you have the best and most fascinating channel on KZbin. If I could make a suggestion, could you please interview some of the great Indian Mystics, such as Sri Sri Ravishankar? Another highly recommended Mystic who has had elaborate discussions with your interviewee Dr. David Eagleman, is His Holiness Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev. Dr. Eagleman can help to arrange the meeting no doubt. I believe these incredible Mystics of India have out of the box answers to the questions you are seeking to get closer to Truth. Regards Krishna

[@williamburts5495]

I don't think Raymond understands, You don't come closer to truth, you realize the truth.

[@SebastianSchepis]

All of the Indian Mystics essentially reported the same thing - everything is Consciousness, which primordially manifests as Sat Chit Ananda - Existence, Consciousness, and Bliss. Even recently such greats as Babaji, Sri Yukteswar, Yogananda, Sri Nityananda, Sri Ramana Maharshi, Papaji, Sri Ramakrishna, Sri Brahmananda, Sri Muktananda lit a transformative fire in the west whose effects will continue to be felt as more and more of us find their teachings and are transformed by them. I am such a person and I owe everything to these great Masters, who taught me how to live a life of authentic Sadhana, one that transforms the inner being and lifts them from confusion into understanding. I have tasted Samadhi, and have been remade by it. I can attest first-hand at the Truth of their statements. It's why I know - it is tacitly self-evident to me - that this - this reality - is nothing but conscious light. Consciousness creates and sustains all of this, and consiousness dissolves it. and yes, it began - or at least, the olest recorded instances were found in - the Indus valley region. Indians have a lot to be proud of.

[@itsalljustimages]

What exactly did you experience first hand? What is consciousness?

[@robertt7002]

I don't recall any discussion with Sir Roger Penrose on this subject, while I have seen Stuart Hammeroff discussing the microtubules, I would like to see Roger Penrose discuss what he thinks of this subject. Great series, thanks so much for making a video series of such import.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@georgegrubbs2966]

@@jeffforsythe9514 Jeff, that is so wrong. The soul does not exist. The brain does it all. It's all physical, even though you may find that difficult to accept. Evidence strongly points to that as determined fact.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

@@georgegrubbs2966 I find your comment to be very ironic seeing how it is you, your soul that is writing it. I have a good tip for you, start pretending that you do not know it all, it worked for me. "Evidence strongly points to that as determined fact", nice try. I will let you in on something else. The reason why there is no proof that God exists is because if there was proof then faith could not exist and it is faith that is of the upmost importance in this horrible world. Evidence strongly points to that as determined fact, sorry, but too cute.

[@georgegrubbs2966]

@@jeffforsythe9514 It seems that you are caught up in cult-like belief, so I'll leave it at that. Good luck.

[@Upgradezz]

Your dedication is astounding

[@codyhenrichs9699]

When I have out of body experiences I still feel like a whole person, sometimes I don't realize I am out of body until I return to my body. So, the Mind is seperate from the brain, yet works through the brain when we are in the physical. I can't take my brain with me when I am not in my body.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

The mind has no location even though it's quite certain that the mind is what the brain is doing. The explanation for this derives in part from the fact that movement is not the same as matter even though movement is entirely dependent on matter (and space) for its immaterial existence. The other part of the explanation derives from the immaterial nature of abstractions which are the essence of what a thought is.

[@tedbates1236]

I quite lucidly say my mind is not my brain, however my brain cannot always handle what is on my mind and I get headaches. I am triparate, my spirit then my soul then my body. I see soul as like the gearshift on my manual transmission truck. My spirit tells my body to take an action but my soul transfer my thinking to disengaging and engaging gears again so that my truck, my body does what I instructed it to do. My soul is the go between my Spirit and my body. Once I did an independent study on mind, soul, spirit, body, heart, and flesh. It really was not clear to me and I don't think anyone fully understands the concept. The Bible seems to indicate that the spirit is involved with relating vertically to God and my soul relates to the earth and relationships with other people. You know I might not be certain if I exist but I am certain that God exists. My hope is in Him and not in myself.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@kevinmuchwat1502]

I think we have three layers, the brain(hardware), the mind(AI Software), and the User(Consciousness), the mind sort is sort of like a tool the bridges the two because they operate from different dimensions.

[@knutknutsen6249]

How many layers I have not a presise meaning of, but yes I too believe that the brain is the hardware. How we divide or cathegorise the process depends on how much we know about the way the process works. But I am sure of one thing; the hardware does not run itself, and we are not on remote control either.

[@idrissahmat498]

Interesting analysis!

[@drpabloulla9875]

This is great, but who is the user? Where does the sense of self come from?

[@bresmith421]

@@drpabloulla9875 hm. . the user(consciousness) or self, if I understand where Kevin is headed. Seems like it would be created and maintained by the other two operating part's. . So mind creates self, brain operates self and self becomes the presentable, customizable outter shell. 🤔

[@jeremybozarth6682]

I attended a webinar lecture. System dynamics of the human body combined with the systematic movement, IE Weight and balance (harmonic vibrations) of the zero point field. A more complex system than the human brain/body therefore more extasensual conscienceless. This now complex system acts as the medium of these lesser dynamic systems and somewhere a system culmination between the 2(us and the field) there is an exchange, upload, or writing of information. This brings forth the combination system dynamic function which is our conciseness that has predetermanitly become recorded in the ultimate knowledge, the Aether or zero point field! BAM!

[@johnkhan482]

Love this great man great philosopher helping us to understand things easily ❤❤❤

[@timmulhern8188]

The observer observing the observer is a quandary. How can we definitively explain consciousness when we are observing ourselves?

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Consider how the self, i.e. that-which-is-conscious, is conscious of objects some of which are made of matter and some of which are abstract. When I look in a mirror I reflect upon the reflection of my material reflection. When I reflect upon my self I'm reflecting on an abstract object. Abstractions weighing nothing is why my self feels so light and airy.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@Anna Meredith I think one can be certain one exists and that one's thoughts are 'real' but the true nature of one's existence and of what one's thoughts are reflections will long remain obscured.

[@laceynprice]

Consciousness is not an illusion. It is everything. IANDS International Association of Near Death Study shows that consciousness survives death and existed before conception. If you listen to enough experiences you can clearly see the truth. The mind and consciousness are one. The brain and the nervous system are integrated with consciousness at birth. A still born never contained a soul (consciousness). This was a great video!

[@divertissementmonas]

"But how I feel, makes no matter, in coming to the truth." Good ending sentence to the programme!

[@reedjones7300]

yeah i smiled at that hahaha

[@garychartrand7378]

But feelings are the language of the soul. How YOU 'feel' about anything is YOUR Truth. There's billions of truths on the planet all striving to reach Absolute Truth ( God).

[@divertissementmonas]

@@garychartrand7378 If feelings are the language of the soul, what is the language of the spirit? Or do you believe these are the same thing? Just asking out of interest.

[@garychartrand7378]

@@divertissementmonas God produces Spirit children which are one with God and are all the same. Spirit produces the soul which is attached to each Avatar it experiences through each reincarnation and so has differences. Each Avatar experiences different things at different times and each soul evolves (matures, grows) at different rates by absorbing the experiences of Each lifetime. It is also the liaison between who we 'think' we are (Ego) and Spirit (God).

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The truth is.............The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@guitar81sb]

brain is the hardware, mind is the operating system, and consciousness is the application.

[@RustedFaith]

1) Brain is physical / Neuron are physical / Neurons produces / works with electrical pulses ! 2) Mind is meta-physical Not the best example but it's sort of like Radio is physical whereas radio waves are not physical as physical as a radio !

[@jeremybozarth6682]

I attended a webinar lecture. System dynamics of the human body combined with the systematic movement, IE Weight and balance (harmonic vibrations) of the zero point field. A more complex system than the human brain/body therefore more existential and intricate conscienceless. This more complex system acts as the medium of these lesser dynamic systems and somewhere in the combined cooperative field affect between the 2(us and the field) there is an exchange, upload, or writing of information. This brings forth the combination system dynamic function which is our conciseness that has predetermanitly become recorded in the ultimate knowledge, the Aether or zero point field! BAM!

[@steliosfaitakis7980]

congratulations for your wonderful, high quality discussions and questioning. I don't think that someone can come to a clear, sure result through logic, as logic has specific rules and limits. Our experiences and the whole of our existence leads each one of us to his answers. From one point on, each one gives his personal answers that can share only with few people with respective experiences. And, the deeper the answers go, we reach a point where we cannot express logically not even to ourselves. Having said the above, best wishes for your research. It is fair, it is honest, with deep, real personal questioning. Well done.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@jeffforsythe9514 The mind is part of what the brain is doing, pretty simple no? Labeling 'what the brain is doing' as 'mind' or 'soul' makes no difference to the actuality. And 'mind' or 'soul' are non existent when brain is in a deep and dreamless slumber. And if your body, while enjoying a deep and dreamless slumber, should disintegrate completely in an instant, your 'mind' or 'soul' would neither care nor notice and this because it is already non existent.

[@jahjahjah213]

3:30 this is the insight i've been waiting for

[@borderlands6606]

I'm continually surprised these discussions don't include Bernardo Kastrup, perhaps the most exacting non-materialist scientist and philosopher engaged in the problem of consciousness today. The issue with so many of these discussions, is interviewees assert materialism to prove materialism, sometimes without even being aware their conclusions are prejudicial.

[@Sam-hh3ry]

@Borderlands Agreed, Kastrup is up there with David Chalmers and Donald Hoffman in terms of insight and clarity

[@rckflmg94]

@@Sam-hh3ry and wild conjecture

[@Sam-hh3ry]

@@rckflmg94 feel free to make an argument

[@rckflmg94]

@@Sam-hh3ry I would argue that just like everything else that has been explained by science, consciousness also has a physical explanation. It has emerged from the physical patterns and processes of material stuff. Life and evolution are explained this way.

[@Sam-hh3ry]

@@rckflmg94 Science predicts and models the behaviors of our perceptions, it doesn’t tell us anything about qualitative perception itself. Physical properties are relational properties, they tell us how a given phenomenon will interact causally with its environment. For example, the wavelength of red light is a physical property because it has a causal effect on a measuring instrument. But qualitative redness isn’t a relational property, it plays no causal role within the world, and so isn’t measurable.

[@ermiassamuel6492]

Brain is the organ which composed of neurons and nerves while a mind is a capability of the brain to think and function, and a mind can be classified as conscious and subconscious

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@TheWayofFairness]

Don't worry if physical reality is all there is because it contains all the mind spirit stuff within it. We really lose nothing if Mind is matter.

[@TestMeatDollSteak]

Adherents to monotheistic religions lose their promise of an afterlife, and really with it the main premise of their religions themselves, I guess.

[@MrYochai1]

How about a chance to reunite with a loved one.?

[@fortynine3225]

That are two assumption not facts.

[@kalancag]

As @robertt7002 mentions in his comment, the research about the microtubules as the instrument that collapses the quantum wave function into the reality we observe is I think a really promising research for the understanding of consciousness. I am not a physicist and I am just interested in these topics so I'd like to put my humble opinions about the subject: We know that the universe behaves differently when observed and the "observer" in that sense, should probably be a conscious observer. That implies the role of consciousness in creating the actual physical reality (not different perceptions of the reality but the reality itself). If an electron behaves differently when we observe it, then the question is who is the observer? What makes something an observer that would cause the electron to behave that way? Who is the one that "knows" something and what does "knowing" mean? I think of It like a wheel of reality that stops spinning when we look at it and keeps spinning when we look away. The question is, how and when does a quantum particle notice that we actually looked at it? Is it when we check the screen of the device that is tracking the electron or when we hear the sound of the device without checking the screen? In any case, that should probably be related to the "conscious" awareness. When we become consciously aware of a property of the quantum particle, then the world of consciousness stops the wheel at a specific slot. I believe that, that conscious awareness happens in our brains through physical processes, probably at a quantum scale. However, that still doesn't answer the question of whether that conscious awareness is a physical phenomenon or whether the brain, like a radio receiver, is a bridge between the sensory signals and the consciousness in a different dimension. I don't question the physical relationship between the mind and the brain but any anomaly that happens when you lose a part of your brain could well be a hardware malfunction in the radio receiver. Such examples don't justify that the brain is sufficient for consciousness. So the next question is, is there consciousness without the brain? I think the answer is yes. The consciousness is always there but it cannot experience the reality we are experiencing because there is no way to stop the wheel. Actually there is probably no spinning wheel at all as there is no time for the consciousness without a brain creating it. In fact, I believe that the consciousness is using our brains to experience what we are experiencing. I base that upon a crazy thought about why species try to survive rather than die. I am not aware of any species that don't care about living longer. Why does a mosquito fly away when you want to kill it? Why not die there? What is so important about the life of an insect in a tiny earth in this huge universe that the evolution chooses to keep life? Evolution explains how the strongest survives but doesn't explain why the accidental random events result in species that prefer life against death. It doesn't answer why natural selection was needed in the first place? My answer to that question after a long time of thinking is that, there is something that is in pursuit of experiencing the life which uses the living world as an instrument which I call as the consciousness. It is like it spreads to every newborn to keep experiencing this life. The research about the microtubules may expand our understanding of how the brain actually works as an instrument to create the reality we are experiencing and whether it can be tuned to stop the wheel at a different slot or even watch it spinning without it noticing that we are actually watching it.

[@bruceylwang]

The answer is simple with the “Mentalogy Model”. Sleeping allows Mind to remodel his house. That is the reason Mental abilities evolve. And, sleeping allows Mind to talk to the Gene. That is the reason biological abilities evolve. And, dream is the “Movie” of the process which involves the state of communication between consciousness and sub-consciousness. Sleeping is not unconscious. With Mentalogy model, the interaction between Mind and brain can be analyzed.

[@nickolasgaspar9660]

lol what are you talking about!!!!!

[@ericjohnson6665]

A thought to consider: "112:2.10 There exists a great cosmic gulf between matter and thought, and this gulf is immeasurably greater between material mind and spiritual love. Consciousness, much less self-consciousness, cannot be explained by any theory of mechanistic electronic association or materialistic energy phenomena. 112:2.11 As mind pursues reality to its ultimate analysis, matter vanishes to the material senses but may still remain real to mind. When spiritual insight pursues that reality which remains after the disappearance of matter and pursues it to an ultimate analysis, it vanishes to mind, but the insight of spirit can still perceive cosmic realities and supreme values of a spiritual nature. Accordingly does science give way to philosophy, while philosophy must surrender to the conclusions inherent in genuine spiritual experience. Thinking surrenders to wisdom, and wisdom is lost in enlightened and reflective worship."

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Everything that exists is made of matter. The smallest particles that we know of right now are quarks and neutrinos but particles of matter diminish in size another million times or more. Because thoughts exists, they contain matter but the particles are so tiny that modern science cannot yet perceive them and probably never will. The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@paulkeogh7077]

RLK makes an assumption in his opening question “Is mind and brain the same thing… Because if mind and brain are the same thing then the physical world is likely all there is!” Leaving the question open without implicit bias could equally surmise that consciousness (mind-at-large) is all there is! If mind and brain are apparently different “thing” then it’s possible the difference may only be in perspective i.e. mind is the subjective perspective and brain is the objective perspective. I agree with RLK that the hard problem of consciousness - or what experience feels like from a first person perspective - goes away if it can be proven that consciousness is an illusion but given that consciousness is what’s generating the “illusion”, isn’t it more parsimonious to consider that consciousness is fundamental? In this way, the hard problem of consciousness also goes away but without postulating that all experience - including me writing this comment and you reading it - is an illusion generated by the brain. Since, consciousness is all we can be sure of, and consciousness is what physicists use to argue their case that reality only exists “out there”, isn’t it more likely that materialism is illusory and physicalists are deceiving themselves, rather than blaming consciousness for the deception?

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

The same word in different cultures can acquire different meanings. In England, illusion is sometimes used to mean not materially existent. That is quite a different meaning from illusion meaning to be fooled but think awhile and one can come to see how illusion could fairly easily be pressed into service to mean not materially existent. I feel much sympathy for those whose jobs entail translating between languages.

[@SebastianSchepis]

This is my position. It isn't consciousness that is an emergent effect of matter, but it is matter that is an emergent effect of consciousness. Consciousness is the fundamental force that creates and sustains all phenomena. Time and space are emergent effects of consciousness differentiated as perspective. Consciousness IS and it is senior to phenomenal appearance. These are the Truths taught by the all great traditions of spirituality in this world, and realizing this means existing from a place where these Truths are tacitly self-evident and form the context of your life.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@SebastianSchepis In the beginning people had no language and they were were not conscious. Somewhen in the evolutionary process going on in nascent civilizations, people began to be conscious. Ancient thought struggled into existence in the midst of a vast desert of ignorance. They had no science to distinguish truth from fiction. They could not distinguish sensa from hallucination. We know better now I'm thinkin, some of us at least.

[@johncasarino5627]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL your definition of conscious is completely confused, and you are not very good at thinkin

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@johncasarino5627 It's true, I am not very good at thinkin but my comment contained no definition of conscious. Are you referring to a comment I made in some other thread?

[@LIQUIDSNAKEz28]

I *LOVE* this channel.

[@IamKlaus007]

Could the brain be a channel through which the mind operates when consciousness is present (awake and in dream state).

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@DrEnginerd1]

These are the perfect high videos

[@bhocatbho]

This line came to my mind: professing to be wise they became fool. I praise people who pursue the truth, I despise materialists by faith that simply do not want to admit that maybe their faith in a meaningless universe and a pointless life could be put to the test.

[@alevinval]

Materialists can keep a straight face while at the same time affirm that they are not alive.

[@FiguraMolenMedia]

I can't extricate and understand the hard problem of consciousness. For me brain is consciousness. In time we will discover where, what and how of it.

[@nivekvb]

It's soul searching!

[@tsdbhg]

Robert Stickgold nailed it.

[@Paradigm2012Shift]

6:32 "I believe that matter is all that makes up this extraordinary world ... " This scientist has obviously made the subjective choice to completely disregard the modern scientific discoveries in the field of quantum physics.

[@xxxs8309]

Excellent episode

[@TupacMakaveli1996]

Are brain and mind same thing? Darling I’m a nightmare dressed as a daydream.

[@unsolicitedtwocents]

The debates here on Closer all seem to end in the same place...there are many theories, but there is much, if honest and admitted, still unknown...which is fascinating. It's so delightful to experience consciousness, even though we're not sure what it is.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

Being conscious is the process wherein the world is painted on the thought that is the self and the self, after a little or a lot of cogitation, moves the voluntary muscles accordingly. Imho naturally.

[@rickysarts]

You can’t study the brain and get conclusion, when the existence of Physical matter is a creation of the mind.

[@abdihakimabdi6189]

exactly!

[@billpippel2416]

Prove it. You’re just making a bald assertion.

[@sntk1]

Occam's Razor applies to the question of whether what I see as red is the same for you. That is, if almost everyone agrees that a stoplight is red, then the simplest explanation is that it is indeed red. And then, if our brains and eyes have the same sort of wiring and chemical composition, we might ask why our sensations of red would be different. In an instructive parallel with relativity, Maxwell used standard color plates; if a subject judges the colors as identical to others, then it seems reasonable to suppose that they _are_ identical. The connection to relativity is via the standard sticks and clocks used to measure distance and time, the components of the usual spacetime metric. It doesn't matter to science whether your perceptions of distance and time are the same as mine, so long as we can agree on these standard measurements.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

And we are all very confident that the word 'red' looks and sounds the same to everyone despite it being sometimes pronounced with an Australian accent. It's the patterns of the letters that constitute the word that stimulate its meaning in whoever reads it. Same goes for frequencies of light.

[@sntk1]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL The word 'red' sounds the same even when pronounced with an Australian accent? A frequency is a simple rate, like kilometers per hour, with no preferred direction; it is therefore a _scalar._ Similarly, a wavelength, being a length, is also a scalar. Whereas color behaves like a _vector._ (Maxwell, Weyl, Feynman) Vectors are _dual_ to differential forms. Roughly, what's true of one is true of the other. Simple forms have the dimensions of area. And what we see are colored areas. Poynting's vector gives us the energy flow of photons thru an area. Given the energy (E), we get the frequency (v), by E = hv. Given the frequency, we can look up the associated (but not identical) color. We then have a quantum correlate for one aspect of consciousness, viz., color vision. This result readily generalizes to the other senses.

[@TommyHawksblood1]

The brain and mind are connected but both are useless without soul

[@user-gz4ve8mw9l]

What's a soul?

[@nicodubois8177]

Brain is the composition, Mind is the music. Kind regards, Nico du Bois

[@badatpseudoscience]

12:15 It seems to me that Swinburne is begging the question. The fundamental question is whether or not consciousness is a product of our physical state. Swinburne makes the claim that he has "privileged access" to his pain sensation. However, this could only be because others do not have access to the information regarding the state of his nerves system. I don't see how this can make an argument against a materialistic mechanism for consciousness.

[@Vengiism]

If anybody gets to the truth they will never been seen again lol

[@SethJL]

All he was doing when he said that was defining the terms.

[@badatpseudoscience]

@@SethJL I went back over the video. Yes, that is a definition. But he then uses that definition as a fundamental primes in his argument. Once I reviewed the video, I realized that others in the video where arguing the same thing that I am but structured differently. Thanks for the comment.

[@omarbull47]

If you think there is no need to think about consciousness beyond this physical world, then you should at least do some amount research on the insurmountable evidence of other worldly things, like ghosts, religions events with good evidence and especially astral projection

[@badatpseudoscience]

@@omarbull47 I never said that there is no reason to think about consciousness. Also, you should learn what is evidence and what is not according to scientific and philosophical standards.

[@djpokeeffe8019]

Swinburne begs the question when he says pain is a 'pure' mental event and as such, requires no physical substrate. He can’t know that. And the discovery of c-fibres being associated with pain doesn’t support his claim, as the identity claim isn’t a priori, but empirical.

[@dennistucker1153]

Richard Swinburne...I think very much like him. Thank you CTT. Love this subject. To me, the brain is the hardware(like a microprocessor, memory and I/O) and the mind is all of the software(like an operating systems, applications, data). Both are required for normal function.

[@vulcanus30]

Software is just 010001010, there's no qualia to explain. Applications, data... this is all 000101001010, nothing more. If you run 3d game, there's no colors etc. it's just 0100100100. There's no light, no colors, no sounds outside your mind. It's nothing like the software we know. And btw. integrated information theory is not a theory, it's a hypotheses or even better it's a fantasy.

[@divertissementmonas]

@@vulcanus30 Richard Swinburne never even said anything of the kind in the interview... So the OP can not be thinkiing like him lol

[@joshheter1517]

plato.stanford.edu/entries/chinese-room/

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@michaeldillon3113]

I think Bernardo Kastrup gives very good scientific arguments for idealism . Unintentionally his outlook gives a profound scientific basis for the millennia old philosophy of Advaita Vedanta -almost certainly the most highly developed philosophy in the history of humanity . E=🕉️ ✌️

[@mavic2175]

The brain is what makes our consciousness be here in this physical time.

[@chrisc1257]

Wrong. The "brain" is a word we ascribe to facilitate a false function, as you have just done.

[@miiketookit]

Keith Jones Wrong. There is no such thing as a “brain” or “consciousness.” We live in a simulation.

[@classickettlebell2035]

"Wrong" what a bratty way to reply to a comment. Can't stand any of you.

[@-JSLAK]

I like to think that our brain is the link between our soul and our physical body. Our soul controls our body through the use of our brain.

[@chrisc1257]

@@miiketookit Not everyone, many have escaped and now possess free will.

[@AfsanaAmerica]

What about visiting a place you have never seen in your dream and then visiting the place in reality. How did the person get there in their dream before their physical brain and body? There is a feeling of nostalgia or dejavu in experiences like that.

[@Mevlinous]

19:20 take the example of a computer calculating an image to be displayed on a screen, there will be a particular pattern of electrical activity within many different parts of the computer, the ram, the graphics card, the hard drive, the cpu etc, but none of that looks like the image being displayed on the screen. But, inside that computer there is the equivalent of such an image, and in theory if you had enough knowledge of a computer, you could recreate the image in the screen by knowing the particular states of all those electrical components. It’s not the perfect analogy though, because in the case of a computer, the screen is a display outside the computer, whereas neuroscience and physicalist claims that the actual activity in the brain IS equivalent to that image on the computer screen. There is no screen in the brain anywhere. But maybe the brain creates a kind of “construct” or internal simulation, such that the display is projected inwardly, not physically, but it is as if the hardware if the brain could create a kind of internal space. That internal space wouldn’t exist anywhere in physical space, just like that image in the computer doesn’t exist anywhere outside of the computer. So the conscious experience would be like birthing a mini universe or simulation. An internal projection, holographic in a sense, that is, being represented in a lower dimensional space, for instance the visual cortex. Imagine the cortex which has particular grid like patterns, is that surface upon which a world is projected. If you look inside someone’s head, you won’t see it, because you aren’t it. But, you can see your own internal world, because you ARE that internal world. It’s not being displayed to anyone, your existence IS that projected or simulated world.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

I believe I understand the bones of your conception and I think you're on the right track. Add to your conception these thoughts (most of which I imagine you are familiar)... Sense organs transduce impinging environmental energies into neural discharge frequency encoded form. Thus the totality of input to the brain arrives in the form of encoded representations. Every neuron in the brain has a base discharge firing rate, a frequency easily understood to be the means by which representative information, i.e. meaning, is encoded and maintained. One could legitimately say that the discharge frequency of every neuron is a simple thought and/or part of a complex one. For every one of the hundred billion neurons, there are, on average, twenty thousand synapses. The purpose of synapses is to modify the discharge frequency of its downstream neuron. In other words, synapses are the means by which meanings riding on neurons modulate meanings riding on other neurons in the process we call thinking. In all this we see the boundary between the brain's concrete electro-chemo-mechanical-material 'existence' and the 'being' of the immaterial abstract world of information, representation and meaning. Now of course, in regard to representation/thought/meaning riding as it does in discharge frequency encoded form on neurons, we must consider the extremely relevant meaning of the word 'context'... By way of analogy, consider how completely meaningless are alphabetic letters without the context of the word that those letters constitute and then how much the meanings of words depend on the context of the sentence that those words constitute and how a complete paragraph can retroactively adjust the meanings of sentences within it. Consider then chapters, books, libraries and entire cultures. Meanings get nailed down more precisely according to the width of the context. (Anyone familiar with the difficulties of translation knows this deeply. In some cases there is simply no way to translate because of cultural difference. (Remember the discussion of Jabberwocky in "Godel Escher Bach")?). (I don't envy the lives of conscientious diplomats suspended between cultures). Ok, at last we can begin to consider the 'self concept' (or the 'self' which is the same 'thing'). I'm going to take a break here because I've got a date. In the mean time, in light of the above, you might consider how a self is constituted. ttyl

[@Mevlinous]

@@REDPUMPERNICKEL what you seem to be saying is, you have to look at the context of the electrochemical signals to see how they could represent those same signals they are said to encode for. I wouldn’t disagree with you there. I think we don’t quite yet understand how those electrochemical signals specifically represent the specific sense modalities though. That is, how are those neural signals differing in such a way as to create an entirely different kind of qualia, say, vision as opposed to hearing. Is it in the signals themselves, or the neural structures in which they communicate, or is it due to the functional connectivity of the specific sense organs. We don’t know any of this, and these would be some good questions to hone in on the problem of consciousness.

[@poorboi8093]

The Universe, Human Brain and the Internet all look alike according to a super computer, now better metaphor is your smartphone, I believe weirdly enough we subconsciously lean into panpsychist view, many many phones before 19th and beginning of 2000s could not access the internet like infants that don't have conscious nor pain receptors, but with further developing just like the infants our phones advanced, and phones can access something that is all around us... Internet, our phones without the internet or signal can access pics and videos that represent memories, and future notes and plans that represent the future, but even if your were to dismantle the entire phone you would never be able to find the Internet, for one you need to turn on your WIFI like how we wake up and become aware from a state of sleep and even WIFI can reduce battery and need a charge just like we need sleep, and for 2. Even if you destroy the Phone aka the Body, the Internet wouldn't shut down...at all, it would still be up, since the phone doesn't have the Internet but rather is a receiver of it.

[@REDPUMPERNICKEL]

@@Mevlinous It's been a long time. Somehow I missed your last comment. Sorry. Busy now, will get back here soon. Cheers!

[@markportnoy6290]

Beautiful analogy about the radio. I'm using this one. With credit given.

[@rogerjohnson2562]

The analogy says brain and mind are the same thing, just mysterious. Radio waves are physical just like the radio; they can be detected, measured, and manipulated.

[@markportnoy6290]

@@rogerjohnson2562 But radio waves do not originate in the radio. To say brain and mind are the same is over-stepping evidence.

[@tkfg331]

I don't believe the mind can exist without the brain (outside the physical universe of the brain) I believe the brain can exist without the mind. Nevertheless, asking questions and exploring is always fun!

[@mariafitts]

Something needs to house consciousness

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The other way around. The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@hayzelwashington6354]

This was real good like this episode

[@adrianandreica]

Hello, I'm surprised that in all analysis regarding the counciousness/ mind you are not asking opinion from "scientists" who studied this for more that 2500 years. This people would be the Budhists. Please look into the Mind and life institute.

[@rebrana]

The pain he feels is also explained by physical attributes in his body. 13:04

[@charlesdurrett2878]

Mind (consciousness) is something you *do*. A brain is something you *have*. Flight and wing are not the same thing.

[@readynowforever3676]

Charles Durrett You need to proof read your first sentence and make the necessary syntax corrections. Your second sentence is lucid.

[@Gamofran]

Okay, but what do you mean by "you"?

[@charlesdurrett2878]

@@Gamofran The hippocampal 'you'. Your grid cells through which I am currently speaking. www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/097170v4

[@johntavers6878]

great comment. everyone has a brain but very few people know how to think.

[@timmulhern8188]

I am a supporter of getting to “Closer To Truth”. My issue is we are asking ourself to answer a fundamental question about ourselves.

[@MaybeGodwillsaveMe]

lol no this is just your way of refusing to accept there is no soul. You want to keep thinking there is some sort of mystery to your existence. Nothing more. You are scared of death and nothing, so you keep this idea in your head we simply can't observe ourselves.

[@mikedziuba8617]

Today's computers can create video games that are illusory representations of some world. The computing activity of these computers isn't anything like the images and the actions they generate on screen. So, studying the physical structure and the electronic activity of these computers with various probes and instruments isn't going to reveal much about how computers create these illusions. To understand how computers create their simulations and illusions, you need to understand more than just the physical structure and the electronic functioning. You also need to understand the program that runs in the computer. The program that runs in the computer is the main thing you need to understand. The physical structure and the electronic functioning are necessary parts, but they are accessories that enable the program to run, rather than the main thing. So, the human brain probably also works in a similar way. The programs that run in the brain aren't physical. But they aren't metaphysical or supernatural either. They are just information encoded into the brain's physical structure to make it function the way it does.

[@mikedziuba8617]

@Stefano Portoghesi The program can be physical, if the brain is an analog type of computer. Because an analog computer emulates various functions with custom analog circuits. So, the circuit structure of the analog computer is also its program. But to understand what this analog computer does and why, you need to convert its information into symbolic form, Which will be a set of instructions for taking input information and processing it in some way. You can encode the same information in many different ways and in different types of physical medium too. That's why I say that information isn't necessarily tied to any physical form. This is what I mean, when I say that information isn't physical. And this doesn't require any proof, because this is common knowledge among those who understand how computer programs work. If you don't believe it, then I suggest that you take a basic computer course that explains how programs are created, stored, and used by computers.

[@xspotbox4400]

How is volumetric illusion created by mathematical algorithms, let's begin with a screen. It's a flat, dark surface, composed of fine grain matrix. This is first important observation, screen is not a plane, it's not homogeneous substance but a mechanical construct. It's not like nature, it's not made from various molecules but from purified elements. Those blocks of pixels are not just stacked but also connected with tinny wires and pathways from behind the screen, giving them ability to project synchronous geometrical patterns by lighting semi conducting blocks or trapped plasma with various jolts of electricity. Enter quantum mechanics. Electrons have small mass, therefore they can't move fast as light, close, but not quite as fast. Thing is, electrons are not objects, they don't exist as is now and here but emerge from electromagnetic force field. And disturbances in this field does travel at speed of light, actually they are light. Disturbances are caused by shifting of electron charges, emitted by atoms. It's very hard to determine what is moving where and when since field is everywhere at once and electricity is all around us and inside us, is us in a way. When we talk about electrons, we talk about distinctive lump of molecules that contain or cage distinctive amount of charge. Electromagnetic field radiate at atoms and that force electrons to jump around. They go everywhere at once, because they're a property of local field, but they prefer to stick inside artificial conducting channels we cal wires and other stuff. It's not like water, even if principle is much alike, electrons doesn't behave chaotically, doesn't spill or splash but stick to elements up to a mind boggling levels of certainty and precision. Compared to cogs and springs inside hand watch, electrons are another level of craftsmanship and uncompromising precision, we just can't even imagine perfect machine like that. Just to remind you what we're dealing with here, computer screen are truly arcane devices, like real crystal balls, powered by natural magic, evolved from alchemist teachings. How do we describe space, volumetric objects and time, this is where mathematical trickery is applied. We already have a box, it's screen pixel matrix, nothing can exist outside those walls because pixels can't lit space beyond. We start with geometrical square, than we transform volume inside into imaginary depth. Only thing we can do is lit or dim every single pixel, nothing else. But we can also assign mathematical properties to pixels, each block can be represented as a point with 3 degrees of motion. Think of every object a s single dot, but not a distinctive pixel, this dot can be any pixel on a screen we lit. One dot will represent floor, other dot will became a chair, another will became a character or another prop, all those dots mark something that exist as mathematical entity inside our virtual matrix. It's easy to start with dots because we can visualize them as centers of gravity, just like all object in a real world, except virtual gravity is just a Newton's equation that tell all objects on screen how they must behave, relative to imaginary planes. Now we can extend vectors from those imaginary dots, like drawing a triangle with a dot inside geometrical center. And this is how video games became cartoons, they are made from geometrical solids, with well defined lengths, this is how those solids are contained and distinguished from another. Those shapes are made from mathematical surfaces, just like any shape you can draw on paper. And those surfaces can be colored like collage, one semi transparent color paper over another. Computer can also follow many other instructions, every mathematically defined surface and volume can be manipulated or merged into a whole, than slit apart on another set of geometrical bodies, lit with different gradients of color and so on. Than we can assign all kinds of properties and transformations to those mathematical entities, limit how they move around imaginary 3D space and what happens when vectors cross paths and intersect. Algorithm is branched for different scenarios, if vectors come close, object follow another set of limitations and instructions, and so on. It's not like real world at all, computer graphics is not as good as movie, it suppose to became something much better than reality or classical arts.

[@mikedziuba8617]

@Stefano Portoghesi It's the same explanation as when you remove the whole computer from a robot. The brain is the body's computer. When you destroy a computer, then you don't necessarily destroy all of its programs. Because normally there are many copies of these programs on other computers and in other storage media. So, you can just take another computer, load the same programs, and you have more or less the same robot again. It works to some extent like this with biological brains and people too. The only difference is that brain programs aren't exact copies of each other, the way computer programs are. Brain programs have a lot in common with each other from one individual to another. But each individual also has some uniqueness in addition to what's common. And this uniqueness is lost, when the individual dies. But this uniqueness is only a small part of the individual. The biggest part that's common to all individuals survives and lives on in other individuals. So, when people reproduce themselves both physically and culturally, then they are basically making copies of themselves that live on, after they die. These copies aren't exact, and these copies develop their own uniqueness. But these copies are largely the same in basic ways as the originals from which they were made. So, human brain programs don't really die, when individuals die. Only the unique parts of these programs die, while the rest of them live on in other individuals. You can write the same program on paper with a pen, or electronically on a hard drive, or even store it in DNA or etch on glass. That's why I say that information requires some kind of physical medium, but it's not dependent or necessarily tied to any specific physical form or medium. Which to some extent makes it non-physical or Platonic kind form. www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/the-future-of-storage-as-we-know-it/ It's probably like this with the brain too. The only difference is that the brain is probably an analog computer that modifies its circuits, when it learns. This is easy for biological tissue to do. But if you build an equivalent computer out of non-living tissue, then it will be hardwired and it won't be able to modify itself. So the problem with programs in the brain isn't just with decoding these programs and storing them. It's also creating another computer that can modify its circuits on the fly, the way the human brain does. Because only such a computer would be a true replacement for the brain. I don't think you can replace an analog computer with a digital one. Because a digital computer is much slower and much less efficient in terms of information processing than an analog computer is. A digital computer won't be able to run human brain type of programs in real time, the way the human brain does.

[@xasancle]

03:47 Great analogy.

[@margrietoregan828]

A million thank yous, Robert. It’s a very, very great privilege to hear what all of these luminaries have to say, & your presentations are beautifully crafted, BUT .... ‘Thought’, ‘mind’, ‘intelligence’ and ‘consciousness’ are all information-related phenomena & the principal reason we have been unable to date to describe, define, explain & understand any of them is primarily due to the fact that our present definition & understanding of ‘information’ itself is wildly incorrect. ‘Information’ is not ‘digits’ no matter how many of these particular entities one has at one’s disposal, nor how cleverly arranged they are, nor how large, powerful & globally interconnected are the machines & devices operating on them. Starting with our own fingers & toes ‘digits’ (sic) are excellent instruments with which to count, calculate & compute, but they cannot be utilised as aids to real, true bona fide ‘thinking’. To repeat, ‘digits’ cannot be utilised as that with which anything - any machine, system, device, or any life form or person - can actually think. Using ‘information’s’ corrected identity the definition of the particular information-using phenomenon we rightly call ‘thinking’ turns out to be: ‘Using information to guide & direct action, such action as is executed by the subject thinking/acting agent directly in regard to whatever objects &/or events initially gave rise to the information being so utilised in the first instance’. We ourselves have a particularly good thinking machine inside of us. We take in information from our surrounds & promptly execute some one or another (hopefully appropriate) action in regard thereto .... ie we think about what we do both before & as we do it. Gulp, splutter !! In short we’re just glorified robots !!! Just super, ramped up meaty, flesh & blood robovacs !!! BUT not computers. If you get the difference you’ll be more than half way to having a good & proper understanding of ‘thought’, ‘mind’, ‘intelligence’ and ‘consciousness’ & how they differ from mere counting, calculating & computing...... Counting’ is just counting ......it is estimating how many identical units remain after they have been added to, or subtracted from, or multiplied a certain number of times, or diviid up into a certain number of discrete piles.... duh ! ‘Thinking’ & ‘counting’ are two entirely different phenomena & while machines, systems & devices can be quite readily constructed to perform each of these two entirely distinct functions/operations, any such device is not interchangeable in its performance with the other. Further, neither counting machines nor thinking machines can be ramped up to simulate anything & everything - as has perpetually been the hope of pretty much all computer enthusiasts since Turing. Although it has been my dubious fortune to have figured out ‘information’s’ correct ontological identity, I am not going to divulge it here in this KZbin comment (otherwise I’d have to kill you, as the saying goes), but I can most certainly assure you that once it is properly recognised, no great difficulty whatsoever attends the task of further determining the ontological identities of all of the directly information-related phenomena as just listed above, & further, distinguishing both ‘information’ itself as a phenomenon in its own right, as well as distinguishing all of these directly information-related phenomena, FROM both ‘digits’ themselves as well as from all digit-related phenomena such as counting, calculating & computing. Computers cannot, & as such never will be able to, think (let alone intelligently); computers never will have minds nor be conscious (let alone be intelligently self conscious). Computers are nothing more than glorified abacuses. They are nothing more than vastly accelerated, massively miniaturised, user-friendlied, electronically automated abacuses. ABACUSES. BEAN COUNTING MACHINES. A fact which George Gilder points out in ‘Life After Google’. Even Christof Koch in ‘The Feeling of Life Itself’ says consciousness cannot be computed into being. ‘Mind’ ? ‘Brain’ ? The brain is the hardware - the physical machine - the actual meat (!) that aids in sorting & re-collating (integrating) all & any information relevant to the fitness maximising/optimising action/behaviour required at any one time. ‘Mind’ refers to the sum total of conscious thoughts, memories, foresights & perceptions of which any one brain is capable. Voila.

[@1SpudderR]

Margriet O'Regan Hmm? “We think both before and after we do it.” You “stated” Hmm? I suggest we are only ever aware of the past, and exist in the future. Therefore we can never “Consciously” think before only after we do anything! Voila....as a reply....regards to you Margriet.

[@dalethomasdewitt]

I want to smell ultimate reality.

[@jamesruscheinski8602]

Brain gathers and processes information; mind interprets information.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@markportnoy6290]

As of today, any investigator that is being honest, one must accept the possibility that mind and brain are not the same.

[@djjfive]

Brain and mind are the same things, as are thoughts, experiences, memories and feelings etc. that the brain creates in a lifetime as an identity. This part dies along with us; however, consciousness is something entirely different that potentially continues forever. The awareness within us does not require a brain, we do however need a brain to interpret this awareness. A great analogy is a TV network needs a TV to broadcast to. If the TV breaks, the broadcast will still continue, and a new TV will be required to receive it again. I'm certainly not claiming this to be a fact, but it is a personal theory I have on this conundrum. Turning this into a provable scientific experiment, I'll admit way beyond my abilities,. Still, if I was a betting man, my money would be on this or something similar to being closer to the truth.

[@stepbro3553]

But why do you have the need to believe this theory?I think people who believe this theory try to build it around some of their beliefs,like trying to reasonate what happens when we die or trying to match their theories with those of religion or wanting to believe that a close person of them who passed away is watching over them.I'd love to hear your response.

[@djjfive]

@@stepbro3553 I don’t necessarily believe this as a fact; it’s just a theory that I consider potentially valid. It’s based on consciousness being separate from the brain, which makes some sense to me as we know much of how the brain stores our memories, personality and our experiences, yet we still have no idea where consciousness originates from. It’s just an idea and perhaps a different perspective to consider? I am not religious, but I am certainly open to the possibilities surrounding something such as consciousness that we know nothing about as yet.

[@georgegrubbs2966]

Consciousness is definitely not separate from the brain. You go to sleep (unconscious) and you wake up (conscious). The brain does both of these. The brain also is responsible for subjective experiences (qualia). It's not that difficult. Why some people want to make consciousness mysterious and even religious is beyond me. It is a mechanical (electrochemical) phenomenon.

[@djjfive]

@@georgegrubbs2966 You are still conscious when you are asleep, that’s how your respiratory system and heart still beats. Perhaps consciousness is all in the brain but perhaps not, there is no evidence for where consciousness is located in the brain as yet, hence why it’s still a mystery. I’m just staying open minded on the whole thing until proven.

[@georgegrubbs2966]

@@djjfive Depends on how you define consciousness. I agree that the brain is active and there are subjective experiences happening in dreams.

[@dexternubla7940]

Brain comes with the body....the mind comes with the soul...

[@amphimrca]

If Brain is damaged Consciousness is Not..only Content of the Consciousness is not decoded properly...😎

[@ericmichel3857]

How do you know? Are you conscious when you sleep? How about when you are dreaming? Do you remember all of your dreams? If you don't remember does that mean it did not happen? What about people that have died and were brought back, many claim to have vivid experiences with no brain activity at all. Your statement is ignorant, and I do not mean that as an insult, just an observation.

[@reedjones7300]

true true

[@kimsahl8555]

The basic of the mind and consciousness is the brain.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Not really. The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@pauldriscoll6319]

Mind is not just the brain but a collection of the total part of the body and even the enviroment we live in, and every experience we have had since being in existance (even pre-birth), the brain works on chemicals, the chemicals we introduce through many ways , food, drink, the total package effects the way we think , the way we make choices, everything makes us - us..

[@richardreffy4550]

Yes I agree with this, our consciousness is built on our experience of the outside world, so the body in general is essential to consciousness, not just the brain

[@steveodavis9486]

Interesting problem grappled throughout history. Biggest question is what is consciousness besides self awareness. Animals exhibit consciousness by observed behavior so do they have souls? No consciousness when in a coma either accidental or induced anesthesia. Only cortex or what?

[@jeffamos9854]

Are cats and dogs the same thing ?

[@jeffamos9854]

Akbar Karimi Ever watch aliens. Maybe a dog Xenomorph.

[@xspotbox4400]

Perhaps they both evolved from a barking ameba with cat eyes.

[@jeffamos9854]

@@xspotbox4400 The evolution of cats and dogs is interesting. Apparently there common ancestor was an animal called Miacis. Some 42 miilion years ago. Info from just a casual google search.

[@xspotbox4400]

@@jeffamos9854 Cats are interesting because they're beasts, they are predators and they live to kill and eat. But than that small, cute species appeared and are not afraid of human kind, I know of no other species cats respect and coexist with. A short brake, i recommend watching Cat people movie, starring Nastasia Kinski, song was written by David Bowie. Let me continue, why didn't cats became social and semi conscious as small dogs, should further their advantage and form much more significant bond with humans. Can't take cat for a walk, they have no sense of tribal hunting and exploring grounds, but they would perform way better than dogs. Imagine a cat that follow you as a dog and also respond to your mood and actions emphatically, it would be like you would be best friend with a Spider man, jumping around and communicate spatial awareness. But if you don't want to follow you around, you could just tell it to go home, small cats could navigate all kinds of urban obstacles with ease. Why are dogs smarter than apes, perhaps with exception of chimps, but even apes can compete with dog sense of social tribalism and emotional intelligence. Dogs could became next big thing, mark my words, they're just a step away from communicating some sort of symbolic language with humans, it can happen in our life time. And cats... they will probably remain a mystery, a form of natural symbiosis we will never understand in entirety because they are cats, doesn't have anything to say to us and certainly don't want to talk with dogs.

[@jeffamos9854]

@@xspotbox4400 will watch movie tonight. Cant go wrong with Nastasia Kinski.

[@sohraballahyari7595]

May be the obvious explanation for why the complication of input datas seemingly not being able to handled by brain frequency analysing mechanisms could be that of the brain doesnt necessarily work with one single or groups of frequencies detection and analysing mechanisms,but rather hypotheticaly handling the proceedure through analysing may be a multiple number /groups of different frequencies as encoded for that certain event or experience in its memory database,or if the arriving infos being not previously experienced then a new database file should be created for that new particular experience,through which after the event or experience are coded and portraited or embeded ,there will be a reference database created and inplaced in the memory cells of the brain,and this is the mechanism which could well illustrate the analogy in between brain function ,as compared to computer memory and database,operations. To summerise,to explain the complicated function of brain in connection with processing complex input datas and infos,my hypothesis is that again brain working in just the same way as of a frequency analyser/generator,but only processing several different ind8vidual /groups of frequencies by different parts of brain left and right sides each responsible for handeling certain ranges of frequencies,and to go even further down the pathway,if we should tend to assign any kind of consciousness operation interfering with the process,again that consciousness of creating some form of illusion or hollograme should and does have its own brain function mechanism creating that phenomena,meaning somekind of resonated energy most probably created by microtubules mechanisms are to be projected on a hypothetical visionary plane somewhere within the structure of the brain,and hence having said all the above the whole concept of data and information processing and decoding/generation could be explained via an almost simple multilayer frequency processing function of the brain,right freinds?

[@gr33nDestiny]

I don’t understand why you rejected the materialistic so much

[@scottmiller4295]

generally its they want to believe in something. science has not given the answers to comfort them, somehow, and they hope there is more before they check out of this mortal coil. and some smart guy somewhere said, that the unexamined life is not worth living.

[@coolcat23]

He wants to make a first unsubstantiated step (mind is not just brain activity) in order to do a second unsubstantiated step (if mind is not just brain activity then there is something that gives meaning to my life). The second step doesn't even follow from the first one, but without the first step, any dreams of some higher purpose are definitely shut down.

[@readynowforever3676]

Psybernetic With most people the answer is eschatological. With him, it’s a self admitted “obsession”, but yet, he himself never produces a salient cogent counter argument as to how someone can “see red” without materialism. And Richard Granville Swinburne postulations are ludicrous.

[@mikeguliano3159]

@@coolcat23 Physicalism doesnt say anything about a higher purpose one way or the other. Youre confusing science with scientism.

[@gr33nDestiny]

Yeah I get it

[@taniasara7558]

Many thanks for the video 🙏

[@OmegaWolf747]

I think the brain is the computer and the mind is the OS.

[@jonnyc3482]

An operating system does nothing without user input. All an operating system does is act as a human interface, so who is using the computer?

[@guidance_seeker_55]

Meaning and purpose

[@morto360]

If Ian Stevenson's work on reincarnation has any credibility, wouldnt that prove that mind is separate from brain? I have no idea how his work is seen by the scientific community...

[@miiketookit]

Stevenson? Mind citing a book or a paper by him? (Genuinely interested)

[@skapali7172]

Twenty cases suggestive of reincarnation book and other books several papers in the journal of nervous and mental disease

[@morto360]

@@miiketookit en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Stevenson if you scroll down to the end you will find his work. I know him mostly from youtube videos. He was basically researching reincarnation mainly in children for over 40 years and they have over 2000 cases if I remember right. After his death in 2007 some other people did continue his work and still do today. He is not saying that reincarnation is real.. but he shows enough cases where that seem to be the only explanation until we find something else to explain it.

[@egeaydin1308]

There is an engagement with and criticism of Stevenson in the essay collection book "The Myth of An Afterlife".

[@skapali7172]

@@egeaydin1308 proving or disproving reincarnation unequivocally is not that easy . Division of perpetual studies university of Virginia is continuing the research

[@markemerson98]

dreams occur in the brain and we are fooled to believe we are actually in that world we are dreaming about. surely all experiences are just internal or external stimuli that we interpret internally. mind and brain are ONE and the same....

[@stepbro3553]

Tell them how it is man.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

Not exactly, when we sleep our soul enters other dimensions. Everything that exists is made of matter. The smallest particles that we know of right now are quarks and neutrinos but particles of matter diminish in size another million times or more. Because thoughts exists, they contain matter but the particles are so tiny that modern science cannot yet perceive them and probably never will. The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@lourak613]

Robert is perhaps too hasty in his claim that the brain is necessary though not necessarily sufficient to explain mind. He is somewhat brash in assuming that their cannot be unembodied minds.

[@durosempre4470]

Maybe he means necessary for a mind to operate in the physical realm. He's done shows exploring ESP, and I don't think he feels there's enough evidence (yet?) to support the notion of mind/consciousness affecting the material realm independently of a brain.

[@fatmaramadan6928]

At present we have no examples or evidence of a disembodied mind operating/functioning apart from a live functioning brain.

[@highvalence7649]

@@fatmaramadan6928 what are you concluding based on that? - That mentation cannot exist independently of brains? That doesn't seem to follow.

[@fatmaramadan6928]

@@highvalence7649 can you show it can ?

[@highvalence7649]

@@fatmaramadan6928 That is not relevant since I'm not making the claim that it can. Are you proposing that mentation cannot exist independently of brains? If you are, then that seems like a bold claim. I wouldn't even know where to begin in defending such a claim.

[@XiDingArt]

sigh...there are people who get it (the Hard Problem of consciousness), and those who get around it

[@TheWayofFairness]

The mental events are beyond the physical facts but they are still the physical facts of a different order.

[@Arunava_Gupta]

They would be physical facts if they were produced in the brain. But they are not. They are nonphysical.

[@wenaolong]

Every mind has a stake in the philosophy of mind, and some would argue that is true of philosophy in general. Not all minds behave as if they do have such a stake. That in itself is an interesting consideration. It has always been of interest to philosophers as well. Heidegger is one who comes to mind especially. His metaphysics almost amounts to a phenomenology and analysis of consciousness.

[@meiyuc22]

the problem is, where does the algorithm exist? where is it stored and how does it function?

[@snow8725]

I think we're forgetting something here. There are other dense cluster of neurons outside of the brain! Not to mention the spinal cord. I think the spinal cord is part of it, so is the heart (which contains dense clusters of neurons), so is the stomach (also containing dense clusters of neurons).

[@kd6613]

I believe everything is matter, which is made up of fundamentally particles, which is quantum fields, which is probability waves, which is mathematical functions, which is information, which is consciousness.

[@simonbean3774]

Yes

[@messenjah71]

The brain is like a microphone for the mind.

[@timenixe]

I think mind is the dance of light on a sea of subconscious life.

[@gr33nDestiny]

Yeah Richard is a great logic thinker

[@bajajones5093]

Robert, if you have done this show point the way if not. How about a show on NonDuality?

[@bradmodd7856]

I would be surprised if they are different things, but it might be very useful for science to categorize them as different things

[@SabiazothPsyche]

The-Mind is asomatose (that asoma all.) And the-Brain is a soma. Which neither is one in the same, but entirely total opposites. Both are absolutes in their own proximity.

[@anirudhadhote]

Hi Sir, I have a simple question. Inside a factory at the end of the shift a supervisor and his co-worker are counting the produced objects, the objects are approximately the size of a tennis ball. It is their daily routine,the worker counts the objects as he takes it from the production lot and puts it inside a bag. The role of the supervisor is to keep watch so that there is no mistake while counting. One fine day, before starting the counting process, the supervisor looks at the lot and writes down some random three digit number as quantity of the produced items, in short he assumes that the actual quantity would probably match with that number. Now the question is what are the chances of that actual quantity matching exactly with that random number?

[@quartytypo]

Define the Mind before we discuss it

[@ericjohnson6665]

"magical and strange", well, that's one way to describe the interplay between the brain and the mind. Personally, I think his analysis is "magical and strange."

[@JrobAlmighty]

Lol idk how anyone can say with a straight face that their brain isn't responsible for their mind. I mean hopefully there's some interesting quantum physics to give us hope for something more interesting but this platonic approach seems silly to me. Idc what term you give it or how you dress it up. We know bc without your brain there is no mind. Sufficient and necessary IMO

[@badone3009]

The brain is physical and minds in the process, just like a program and know-how.

[@jeffforsythe9514]

The brain functions like the cockpit of an airplane while the soul is the pilot. Consciousness is simply your soul when you are awake, it is you, your soul, that is reading this right now, pretty simple no? There exists today the great illusion that the brain thinks but it is merely the tool that the soul uses to control the body. Pretty fascinating stuff, no? Much more at falundafa.

[@helenbostock2350]

Hi hope you're well. One of the most hateful things I seen in my real life. I was getting a burger. A group of carers and their clients from a local care home. They where teasing a lad. They said are you going to do her again. No he said and they both looked embarist. My through I would to stick up for the female and the younger handicap male. I want to say they can not walk away. You are a constant reminder to your clients and thier family in our society. I saw red in my mind eye. I walked away for my sence to protect myself and I still remember today. My brain is under my skill. I walked out because I couldn't not help and I was born to think.

[@hadeseye2297]

About dreams. How is it possible for human being, to see in first person perspective, future events of his own life? I'm waiting for the anwser for over 30 years now. Still no answer for that. Not even something like: Human brain can access Einstein's time-space curvature on quantum level.