Are Cataclysm Raids Killing the Game?

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[@upsidedownpeon9984]

there is legit a progression level for a reason, you hit 85.. do normals and spend jp till you get enough ilvl for random heroics, then you do heroics till you are geared enough for raids. Sounds like they skipped most of the progress and went straight to heroic raids.

[@ArCSelkie37]

Aye, if i recall some of the heroics at launch could be pretty difficult in Cata... like you actually had to remember mechanics and use CC (which is probably more than a lot of these people are used to).

[@ChillberPlay]

@@ArCSelkie37 but in classic the heroic dungeons were released in a nerfed version so cc doesnt/didnt really matter. They are tank and spank with extra steps

[@joshcheez611]

Whilst there is certainly progression to do before heroic raids, people who played enough could easily be looking over 350 ilvl by the time raids launched with the 346 dungeon and 359 boe/rep gear available, so it was certainly viable to get right into heroics from the get go for the better players.

[@Roacha9]

@@ArCSelkie37 Yes they were very difficult at start back in 2010, got nerfed after a month or something. Classic launched with the nerfed hcs :(

[@ArCSelkie37]

@@Roacha9 I did not know that, hadn't gotten around to trying Classic Cata.

[@Orly90]

What I enjoy about cata raids compared to retail is that there are mechanics that you have to do, but there's not a bunch of swirly shit all over the room along with all the spells going off. Retail has WAY too much visualization going on.

[@jamesbaggett3655]

Yes bro, this sooooo much.

[@drdyna]

Heroic spine of deathwing killed our guild back in the day. Glad to see new Cata is still functioning as designed.

[@Tyrith_]

As a former GM/Officer of a Semi-Hardcore guild from TBC to the end of Wrath classic. I realized as a GM you are not the reason the guild is a succes, it's the members of the guild that make it successful. How their experience is within the guild and how their mentality and goals towards raiding are met, is what will drive progression. Your job is to get good players, or players that have the ambition to become better at the game, and then help them reach their peak. Guide them in the correct direction. You as a leader need to have clear goals and expectations, so members that join your guild don't join under false pretenses. Something i also learned is that a great leadership comes from letting people do what they are good at. Use their drive and skill-set, and at the same time relieve yourself of some of the responsibility. Running a successfull guild is a full-time job that you can't do alone. I loved doing it, but i'm never going to do it again :D

[@FranklinTFT]

Thank you for your service 🫡

[@Tobeh]

Nvm, saw wrath classic, not vanilla

[@Sleepywalk112]

"I realized as a GM you are not the reason the guild is a succes, it's the members of the guild that make it successful" is contradictory to say as you are the one getting the members for the guild hence you are the one who decides if the guild is a succes or a flop. Do your research and put in the time and you will make it as a succesful guild master, everything is up to the guildmaster if a guild is succesful or not.

[@Enp198]

First

[@adamhamilton5935]

Why do you need to clear all the content week 1...?

[@cmoney163]

Because the Classic community just loves to hurry up and wait

[@WadaZable]

For the ego boost

[@whoischris28]

because cata is short

[@remetz2743]

Thats why wow got 8 different versioner of the game

[@MrTheswagcity]

Cata is the xpansion where all the classic andys realize they are bad at the game 😂

[@neffydallama5382]

Guarantee you wipe every week on normal

[@bubblelover714]

​@@neffydallama5382lol no you and or your guild just suck. Especially sad when the content has been out for so long unchanged. Cope more

[@battleforshogun5452]

Catas the expansion that’s terrible and everyone realized and quit the game

[@OGNord]

I mean honestly if you’re having problems it’s because you have raiders with horrible attention span. They’re not hard. They’re punishing. So if you miss something it’s more than often a insta wipe unless you have healers who are reactive. One thing that changed was how you heal and tank, you went from spiky damage and whack-a-mole style healing. To burst but breathing room to let HoTs roll and allowing the player to really think about what spell to use. 5/10 times this tier it’s the healers not being on their toes, the 4/10 is the dps standing in shit or not using CDs, last one is the tank not using CDs. Raids shouldn’t be for every player. There needs to be progression and things not everyone can do, especially not week 1 or even week 2. I’m so glad with the HC difficulty and I can’t wait for firelands.

[@cmoney163]

Well every player is basically 40, there’s your problem

[@ShakeyOS]

"Progression not everyone should be able to do" shit take

[@ep7311]

we took almost 80 pulls for H ascendant 25 last week, this week we got it in 2 pulls. we are definitely smashing our faces against the wall but last night we did 9/13 in 3 hours which felt really nice compared to our previous weeks dad gamers unite

[@callahansimon18]

80 pulls? That’s easily 4 hours or more.. spend time with the kids!! The early days go by fast.

[@H-D-D]

@@callahansimon18 or maybe he is like me and raids at night when the kids and wife are already asleep?? Don't just assume that we are bad dads...

[@cuzzourt35]

​@@H-D-DI find that I don't have time to keep up only playing those hours.

[@xyndros]

simple answer: no. The playerbase, the community nowadays, is killing the game. End.

[@H-D-D]

"Cata raid bosses are like retail mythic boss" 😂😂😂😂

[@musicwatcher666]

Anyone saying this has never raided mythic, cata heroic bosses are like retail normal bosses, like 3-4 mechanics per boss total lol

[@lawless7859]

Naw, if you factor in the idiots you’ll be raiding with on Cata, those raids are on par easy.

[@xXdnerstxleXx]

Bosses got mechanically harder during cataclysm. By the end and at the start of mop, we have reached a comparable level of difficulty for many past expansions mythic raids. After all it was renamed to mythic. Mythic is old hc. Unfortunately bosses are completely overdesigned since BFA. I‘m tired and bored of it. I like catas 2 difficulties. Not having to do the same fucking raid on 3 different difficulties. Mythic shouldn‘t exist. Just 1 normal mode, 1 hard mode.

[@jpbarry93]

@@musicwatcher666 Normal mode amount of mechanics, heroic levels of boss health, mythic levels of raid damage.

[@mortvald]

@@musicwatcher666 3-4? that's normal my dude

[@Italiandanish]

This isn't a cata problem this is a guild problem.

[@icresp4263]

This is the guy riding a bike shoving a stick in the wheel meme saying "fucking cata"

[@CanoCapo]

It is a Cata Problem, alot of people come in and try to clear heroics with 0 effort

[@daiblaze1396]

@@CanoCapo A people problem then?

[@CanoCapo]

@@daiblaze1396 yes but doesnt it directly affect Cata?

[@daiblaze1396]

@@CanoCapo OFC sadly.

[@Ezzekiel73]

So happy to hear Cata is still taking noobs to school in 2024 like it did back in 2010 I’ve always said the biggest reason people hated on Cata was because shit was waaaaay tougher than WotLK (even if we got post-nerf piss easy heroic dungeons this time around 😓)

[@RandyRadium]

classes feel like shit, world is meaningless, same rep grinds, boring heroics, only cope people have is tough raids and muh pvp, porn addicts need to an hero

[@daiblaze1396]

Facerolling is not permitted here. Cata was and is a good game. The one that you have to play by the rules a bit to have fun. Since Classic, people expect to burn things down and be done with it. They only care about accomplishments. How boring is that in a game? No challenge, no skills involved, no fun just rinse and repeat with one button. There is another one for that : SoD!

[@DayumRood]

People just want content and bis gear spoonfed to them so they can quit and move on to the next thing….. enjoy how difficult it can be… enjoy the game. Or dont.

[@tyschubert3711]

are modern gamers just bad at games or something? what is wrong with people. cata was hard when i sucked at WoW 14 year ago.

[@homehomehome2]

Tbh i don't really feel like Cata HC raids are that much harder than wotlk. There is just more punishing mechanics so it requires more personally responsiblity, but if you got a good raid lead (or ppl just know what to do) its not that bad on HC.. Ofc, there is some fights thats hard (nerf, Alakir & counsel), but thats not any different than it was in wotlk.

[@zdubzz1280]

That’s how I’m feeling, but wotlk also had a big drop off when content got hard

[@battleforshogun5452]

Massive difference actually lol

[@marioboij]

Bro, cata raids are not hard.

[@1990zulu]

An m+ in retail is harder than any raid in cata on heroic.

[@TheElendix]

@@1990zulu i hope you're at least talkking about +20 M+ lol. No way cata raid are easier than a +15 lmfao

[@AsianVideoGamer]

It's hard if you're playing with 60+

[@taylorkent2395]

Post logs

[@Thrall966]

They are whether you like it or not . How easy and hard is based solely on success rate, and currently fyrakk heroic has higher success rate than magmaw heroic . And magmaw is the first boss of the cata raid . Don’t tell me retail players are just better , retail heroic players are equally as bad and have green/grey parsers too

[@dannysabbath2562]

I joined a dad/boomer raiding guild who dont care about logs ect and Ive been having the best raid experience. Getting down HCs has been a good time.

[@dellort]

10 man heroic raider here, 10 mans get scammed with significantly less loot compared to 25m. Additionally weak players affect your raids way more than 25

[@cococock2418]

Exactly, which is why the hype for 10m raids actually turned out to be completely wrong g. Ten man raiders get screwed with less loot + more difficult raids, less access to raid buffs, and more focus on individuals not messing up.

[@Blanchevtt]

the problem with heroic is some players are not following Strat they be standing in stuff and wiping the raid i raid with my guild on 25 man each week doing world tour and we are starting to do some bosses on heroic 25 man its not that hard as long as you don't stand in stuff and stack when needed. think it all so comes down to having a good raid leader for call outs

[@Blacknotpanther]

This stuff feels more like a YOU problem lol. Imagine raiding every fcking day lol and cant progress.

[@cococock2418]

100% a him problem. He’s terrible. As soon as a raid comes up that isn’t braindead easy he falters. He did the same thing during hard modes of ulduar and heroic icc launch. He only wants to play during easy raids.

[@carlosparra9527]

I also created a Guild, im a retail andy and i started playing wow in cata so wanted to re live my experience, but holy moly. I was expecting 2H week one on a 2 day 5 hours in total a week. One month later an we are 3H :(. But im loving it.

[@windatar6351]

As someone that did Progression raiding for Cata the first time over a decade ago, if you want to progress in heroics you gotta be a bit of a hard ass. Cata raids are very. "personal responsibility."

[@alexanderkiedrowski162]

Imagine raiding everyday for three hours. Idk how you don't experience burnout in less than a month.

[@daltonnelson94]

3 hours everyday is too wild. But 3 hours a week is fun! Gaming with the boys and getting loot! 💪

[@michaelmoran2125]

Unemployment at its finest 👌

[@cococock2418]

Oh he does. That’s all these wow streamers do. They hop between versions. Once sod p4 comes out he’ll never touch cata again.

[@cococock2418]

@@michaelmoran2125yup, Europe allows that neet lifestyle

[@michaelmoran2125]

@@cococock2418 guzu is the poster boy for it

[@Lou-jl4ov]

Cata is not classic. ditched that trash.

[@juancamilo5436]

Firelands heroic is so much easier than all T11 raids by far, but ragnaros which is really hard. Every guild will be 6/7 heroic in a couple weeks but like asmongold said, a guild raiding full normal is closer to a guild 6/7 hc than a guild 6/7 hc is to a guild 7/7 hc

[@dumpsterplayer5133]

Yeah everyone that hypes up FL as some hard raid (minus Rag obviously) never actually progged FL. The fights has fun gimmicks, but its all piss easy, and then Rag HC is a giant wall, that's why there was so much burnout back in the days

[@Fireplan47]

normal and heroic raids in retail are so easy if you have a decent group

[@TheLazySpoiledKitty]

Well that's a different topic its not CATA that killed his guild = its himself. You make a guild you better be damn SURE you guild knows what your guild is about casual or hardcore ? If they are not along with your idea = kick them. Simple as that. Also having 0 officers is a bad idea = YOU HAVE to have officers who fkin help you..... doing a guild yourself is not fun nor easy. Cata is not hard.... dads and casuals can stay as casual as they want and just do 10 or 25m normal.... simple as that. However another thing as Guzu said you wanna do a HC raid ? Do 10mans = just get a grp of 10 people and raid HC and the others who wanna be casual can do 25m normal for the vibes and quick and easy upgrades. Nothing about this is HARD just a matter of preperation.... sorry but that guy had 0 idea what he was getting into.

[@Telarius]

Heroic Cata is way harder than retail heroics. Heroic raid is legit a joke. Cata heroic raids are almsot Mythic level. Overall number of mechanics wise, and their argueably more punishing. Alot of raid wipe mechanics

[@hjelk17]

And this is why I didn’t join any guilds. Guilds are more of a pain then worth my time and sanity.

[@Smellypwett]

This is the reason why I don’t join guilds and just pug. I’m a casual player who just enjoys the game overall. I like the progression at my own pace without the all seriousness behind it.

[@tommuller6907]

sorry, but if u raid every day for 3 weeks and you are only 6/13 hc, you are just bad.

[@rct6518]

There simply isn't pleasing the people who say these things. "too hard" is a joke. THERE IS NORMAL MODE noobs! These complainers/quitters who want a 0 effort version of WoW need to go to classic era or SoD (easy exists) for a face roll raiding. Put in the effort of running/joining a 10m. The game is no longer 90%+ beatable with scrubs in your raid groups. They should not dumb down the game for the bottom 30% of players. Benching/replacing people is a MUST now. You can not carry people who can no longer do mechanics or learn how to play their class. R.I.P. Bozo, find a new gamer.

[@Hayjeff1198]

fuck I love how easy comparatively it is to see and understand the ideas of the mechanics and problem solving nearly instantly when in retail its just rinse and repeat 1 shot after 1 shot a missed kick after a missed stop over and over, ADAPTING as a player when no1 else wants to survive, they want to do dps and do damage, but not live. People not being topped for mechanics, people not using a CD when they have a mechanic overlapping with another. I love alting and pushing without connecting main IO just to see what calibre of players im being gate kept by, you LITERALLY need 5k IO, 7m gear score, 4k ilvl, 12 alts, 8/9 mythic prog, be a RL, be currently recruiting AND also link CE from content completely irrelevant from 6 years ago JUST TO GET INTO A +2 because that'll quantify as a successful foundation for a GOOD player? (raiding every day for 3 weeks isnt enough apparantly right? recipe for burn out right? whats missing? FUNDAMENTALLY what is missing??) you cata players have it easy progging LFR with heroic tmog layered over the top, everything is SO SLOW, SO SLOW and yet I can see his raid frames arent topped for mechanics and people are dying with buttons even on pull wtf are you saving it for? The respawn at the spirit healer? Next pull when we blood lust because wow head told me so LMFAO I would NOT hesitate to explain the idea of what obstacle we're facing and EXACTLY what. it. is. "heals need to do healing" sick raid comm btw LOL "don't die" fuck, thats a sick one didnt think Id need to hear it i almost forgot, by the light. Love when the RL doesnt want to make a WA to use DBM sound bites to tell people about a frontal they cant see on their shit UI that they copy pasted from wago.io, instead tell each other to "suck my dick" (thats a good one too ill tell my raiders that one when they dont pre pot or cycle CDs for their overall) and I find myself doing more healing or more damage or taking more damage because none of my monkey DPS want to push a button. I imagine theyre all alt tabbing to icy veins so they can be told what to do and how to think and how to act and how to survive. Rank 1 oceanic, didnt need to apply. I only showed my UI and DEMONSTRATED understanding of HOW and WHEN ill die, and when mistakes happen inevitably YOU NEED TO CRITICALLY THINK. Not "suck my dick faggot, push heal buttons harder" idec wtf they say, it needs to be on point and not some stupid boomer shit about why you weren't ready for mechanics, thats what ur timers are for USE them. I don't think I've seen wow players harder on each other than I did in R1 oce and if I constantly looked to blame them for not doing whats within MY power, MY control I wouldn't have been invited, skipping the app process, like literally EVERY good opportunity Ive had in my life (including the ones I've ruined). The other people in ur raid ARE NOT THE OBSTACLE TO YOUR PROGRESSION FOR YOUR CHARACTER. YOU ARE. Go make a weakaura. I've made 1k WAs in dragonflight a lone, including all characters, all dungeons, raid mechanics, sounds, icons, text, timers. I have to turn shit off in BigWigs at the start of the season because the cunt wants to add spells and sounds turned on by DEFAULT, I've already made the weakaura's in 2 fucking seconds. EVERYTHING. IS. WITHIN. YOUR. CONTROL. Its either that or there is something wrong with the world, right? We can just try controlling that with the arm spam of 2 labradors put together, hell yeah sick plan. I am well-fed after seeing this, I have food buff after witnessing what prog has become to people. The game demands perfection, you get punished for not pressing the CORRECT button at this VERY SPECIFIC time, at this VERY specific moment, when this VERY specific mechanic happens at the same time as this VERY specific part, after this pull, after that pull this thing will wipe us if not managed, after that, this goes on CD for this pull in 5 minutes. Cata looks super easy atm am keen to check it out with good latency this time, am sick of russian ping and US servers tbh but its not like I enjoy Stormrage, Quel'Thalas, and those Area52 andys its just that low keys are fucking content and recording it is SO FUCKING GOOD and they never suspect my alts, because who genuinely takes 10 seconds to look at someones IO and be THAT invested in a fucking +6 where they NEED to see if im an alt and have any experience. When I look back and see how many globals my monkey dps missed and what they cycled, how much I see them fucking back pedalling too and the chaos fuels me and makes for excitement where people have very little motivation to do anything BUT the bare minimum. "Im calling to have healing healed" What the fuck are DBM timers for cunt, thanks for being a WA for the raid, shout out to the default Amy countdown voice in our actual discord telling me to push my healing buttons harder so sick LMFAO. He didnt get the results he wanted after giving other people officer, not preparing for raid and when faced with diversity, the strongest players WILL be the fucking most adaptable, quote me cunt. Id like to think if the RL for rank 1 oceanic during vanilla classic can demand things, and have expectations of his raiders, then I'm allowed to want shit too right? Have standards, not live in perpetual fear more concerned about controlling what other people feel and think, instead of what I feel and what I think. You know what, fuck this Yung shit, Im gonna make some randoms pugs officers so they can read my mind and do whatever will get the results I expected. Kill boss get loot ez. May aswell pug tbh bro "Don't Die" fuuuuck, I think of so many times I've heard this comm and it fucks me up everytime. I say this one as a meme amongst actual calls just to see if people notice. I'll start calling when I feel the raid has pressure to get everyone on the same page, then randomly ill say "Im hearthing" or "I'm dead, I'm dead" as a shadowbolt volley comes out just to keep everyone on their toes LMFAO. One of my CE guilds thought they could raid 2 hours a week and be called CE with less than 40% hit rate on CE together over 8 fucking tiers of content I managed to climb guild ranks just fine and never took the bait by dropping g rank at the time. Too much or too little doesn't seem to work for anyone, no matter what anyone or any dumb pug thinks, there is ONLY consequences. I love when boomers try to problem solve and lash out at the perceived obstacles. The discord comms actually go off in this guys LFR prog guild and I froth it. "NUmBeR oN DEtIAlS is LOw AnD my HP is ZErO, MuSt bE a YoU prObLem". The next move is to sign up to LFR as a guild on raid nights after normal isnt cleared right? Looking forward to more of these. Editted a quote "How you handle your fear and uncertainty, shapes who your character is."

[@alexd2249]

No more interest in Cata raids. They feel like Mimiron, which is my least favorite fight in wotlk. There’s just too many things happening for it to be fulfilling. You wipe over and over, and each wipe is to something else. Then, once youve got it down, reprogging it each week and yelling at people for making the same mistakes over and over. Prog is fun for like a month, then it burns people out. It’s fair to say, if you played through WOTLK and loved it, you’ll probably enjoy Cata raids. If you’re someone that prefers vanilla/tbc, then Cata just isn’t worth the effort. Xmog makes gearing purely about player power. Heroic raids can take 100s of wipes to clear. Just cba doing all that shit. Classic or tbc fresh when?

[@paulread7464]

We have neeerfed T11. Several bosses have 20% reduced HP from original difficulty on top of 4.3 patch giving the raid a massive DPS bonus. People are doing Firelands DPS in T11 gear. Pservers did things like -20/30% DPS dampenings to reduce DPS on top of the bosses not having 20% reduced HP. It's a skill issue most of the pop want to afk and auto attack in Vanilla and just be grey parsers. Git gud. This content is fall over difficulty other than mechanical execution on like 2 fights.

[@koeden]

TBH guys should learn to press right buttons and should learn to dodge mechanics, cata hc raids are not harder, but u cant do fails. So play clean bosses and u will kill bosses. Got first week 13/13 hc in 25 men without playing PTR. Play clean, dodge mechanics and u will kill everything. Stop crying Daddy´s and learn to play.

[@glowglow6270]

These raids are not killing the game, players just kinda forgot how to have FUN with the game and enjoy yourself, everything needs to be cleared first time in 2 hours or else everybody sucks and the raid group sucks. People like that genuinly destroy the fun for other people. My former raid lead was this SUUUPER sweaty guy that got angry and went off on people for a mage not using a blink or shit like that. Its no fun being in this super competetive setting with people that only do pve anyway's? xDD im not even that sweaty in Arena/Rbg's. What im trying to say people should enjoy the progress of gearing and getting better as a team. Many Many people never played cata or even raided in the first place. Give people some time to have fun man, thats why i left my guild ^^

[@Atoet11]

Obviously Cata raids are laughably easy compared to retail mythic and that comparison is simply not applicable. However, for the people that play and enjoy classic, it is a clear step up in difficulty and it is clearly being felt in the community. The players that enjoy classic, have proven time and again that they simply don’t enjoy the group content being difficult. Classic’s biggest charm has always been the slow, and importantly, guaranteed character journey. Every time you log in, there will be some progress made and some upgrades gained. There is nothing wrong with that and should honestly just be embraced. It is no secret that 99,99% of people that play WoW are incredibly shit at the game and unless you go “full sweat” mode, you will just have to accept that you will be hardstuck not clearing any of the highest end content.

[@mathieubrazeau3336]

Being a heroic raider since WOLTK idk why people don’t do normal to get bis / tier set to progress. Our guild throughout every expac (even DF) we always clear lower difficult tier to get massive upgrades to progress Heroic / Mythic…

[@marcp9926]

lol, is this debate still going on? Cata was when I started to LOVE the game. It was extremely difficult to begin, but like anything, more repetition, the easier, except when the mechanics themselves were broken, but we got creative and found different ways to kill things. My guild managed to kill everything but Deathwing, that's when we split.

[@tomdavenport1768]

They aren't hard. There's just mechanics that you actually have to obey, or, suprise suprise, you wipe. Same shit from 2010. "It's too hard, I'm quitting."

[@johnhavardvalebrokk6151]

Nah, cata raids aren't killing the game, well depends who you're asking. I'm in a guild that is so far 8/13 heroic 25m in tier 11 week 5 since we started the raiding. We only had 1 week where we split into 2x 10m teams, and that was a week where we lacked signs for the 2nd raid night, and a few raiders from wrath hadn't reached 85 yet. We knew from the start that cata heroics would be a lot tougher than we'd been used to. So we've worked hard, focused on 1 or 2 heroic bosses at a time. And once 1 is down, we have that on farm, then we start working on the next one. So we're getting there, and it's fun to work towards it.

[@hansbystrom9983]

Those applications seem bonkers. I remember all the people back in days obsessing over gearscore. They always sucked themselves, relying on gear more than skill. That kind of attitude, wanting extreme credentials for a simple raid, is ruining the community. Glad I stopped playing.

[@Cybrok]

As someones whos run a few successful guilds over a few years each; what that guild becomes is entirely shaped by the attitude you put into it and the environment you foster. If you have raging morons, its on you to correct it. As for the raids, theyre not too hard. They're definitely harder than classic but the difficulty now is X does big damage, you must use Y cooldown with a few mechanics thrown in for positioning/adds/kicks. This difficulty is far more enjoyable than, oh 3 warriors got MCd on Vashj and gain cc immunity and 1000% damage, say goodbye to your casters and nothing you can do about it. TBC had a lot of gimmicky mechanics that you would just go welp, thats a wipe, and nothing you can do. Cata is much more about outplaying mechanics, something you can work on and overcome rather than "the lucky pull". It's ok to not want to sweat in wow anymore, god knows I dont, but a mid guild can clear full heroics in T11 Cata before T12 comes out.

[@matthewstewart5852]

There's no reason to beat your head against a wall. Get 10 man who you have fun with who are consistent. Bench people who are inconsistent. spend about 1 hour on a progression raid boss then switch to normal. Most people haven't gotten their entire set from normal. It will help you progress in heroic... My guild may have only gotten 2 heroic bosses down but were not fighting with each other after 3-4 hours of wipes lol. We have only done heroic for 2 weeks now.. I think 1-2 heroic bosses prog per week is pretty average.

[@jjburrows9059]

My guild is currently 9/13 in 25 man heroics and honestly everyone has been having a fun time. Alot of guildies are saying how nice it is to actually have progression in a classic raid and its nice not face rolling everything,. I feel like the difficulty is pretty good to where its not too hard where u are stuck on a boss for months but its challenging enough to have a steady progression. Im not a wow stan just defending everything about wow but honestly Cata has been the funnest ive had in awhile in classic era and i have been playing ever since classic relaunch. If the game isnt for you its just not for you adn that is ok and that is why they have so many different versions of wow

[@dominikfittschen2955]

Cataclysmn Raids are not too hard, Cataclysmn Raids are very nice and until you get to Dragon Soul and the LFR Tool. Enjoy the kills on normal and give your best while progressing HC.

[@pici5533]

Can't relate. Sounds like a classic Andy problem. Maybe all these nerds need to realize they only like classic era cause they suck at the game and cata is the first skill check they had their whole lives. lmao. Also. Don't pretend like this is not a strictly boomer / older gamer problem either lol. People who have a brain don't play the game like this.

[@MrRashef]

Guys here saying dad gamers xD in original cata i didnt see a lot of shitty enchanting, geming , stat priorrity etc. Now ln cata classic I see that all the time, youngies cant even read whats written on the screen. Raiding? With this skills of reading and understanding Im not surprised newbies cant do raids😂

[@danilnepriakhin5365]

there is a normal difficulty for all of those running it in pugs and casual relaxed guilds, normal is much easier than heroic in my opinion and manageable. Compared to this, SoD didn't even had various raid difficulties, just one difficulty for each raid

[@ozkumfin5295]

I suck at wow and I only started learning to tank in cata but progressing on heroic and learning a new style of play has been some of the best experiences I've had in wow ever. Nothing beats downing a heroic boss for the first time after like 12 tries.

[@a.r.t.8651]

fair, i've been playing for many years now and i'm only a casual player, i only raid normal since forever, i know top hard content is not for everyone and i'm ok with that

[@jalefar8247]

Some bosses are harder on 10man then 25 and hc neffy and sinestra were not that easy from what i remember. Also firelands are fine but dragon soul kinda sucks so you have very little to look for if you are pve player.

[@you_can_not_see_me]

You must just train 3 years on 3 time cataclysm free server and you will know every tactics

[@sk2790]

most ppl who r actually good at the game or just have a brain in general have quit this game as a whole unless they r making money from the game by being streamer/content creators. the few who stayed have to deal with the braindead casuals who r only capable of doing close to no mechanics while getting carried. ur feelings can get hurt or what not but this is the reality.

[@Drayyee]

how in tf are we talking about cata like its been out for ages.....lmao. " we were only 6/13 and cata slowly destroyed us..." bruh its been out for like 3 weeks.

[@Geeyle]

I swear to God people suck at this game. Cataclysm raids are NOT hard compared to retail content. This is a dad’s expansion, enjoy it!

[@Voliiz]

If you think that a boss with 4 mechanics are too hard you might see if you are the problem and not the game. Sounds like he wants to right click the '' hardest '' content and get loot

[@LedriTheThane]

Lol this was a problem back in real Cata, then everything got nerfed to shit. Stop raiding if you can't beat it currently.

[@whoischris28]

anyone else hating is massive amounts of 10m raids going and their guilds downsizing from 25m to 2-3 10 man teams??

[@mikhael8216]

WotLK ruined gamers. That expansion made people think they can stand in fire and skip mechanics. You can't do that in cata.

[@dafkid1985]

you are completely wrong if you think 10 man is easier .... 25 man hc 100 times easier then 10...

[@ColeHodge-g3v]

No because PVP is what makes it breaks WoW games. It’s more competitive and fun.

[@zerti86]

classic wow players really do not want to use their brains. in no world you can tell me these bosses are too hard in a guild setting.

[@stemson6883]

and the downturn begins

[@twax4410]

This is due to people trying to do content they're not even geared for lol. Do the progression like the rest of us.

[@smik2630]

Just play the real wow instead of Living in the past - fucking hell man

[@ZsD-z1v]

Rotating the people on 10 man or having two 10 teams can make 25 easy

[@AlCap0le]

25 nen is harder than 10? Guess we play different patches

[@Booby855]

Guzu You're just stealing peoples videos at this point. . .

[@ericpadilla2454]

Catat raids are fucking easy. Even easiers then TBC raids.

[@itslit1998]

Reeee i cant get the best gear while being half afk all raid reeeeee 😂😂

[@duhasstmich230]

Mythic retail isnt hard....it just has mechanics like Cata.

[@JonnyNestea]

cata isnt classic. cata was a reason why we wanted classic. fuck that.

[@ramonvdelst]

Tldr; don't join streamer guilds for raiding HC

[@infinity304]

Who says Cata is hard never played Retail Mythic.

[@dingostar2620]

You got it twisted Guzu, dad gamers did this like 100 years ago already. It's the new generations who are airheads who find it too hard.

[@Icemaynee]

What new generation is playing WoW? Lol

[@booshandorkakow64]

@@Icemaynee the late 20's I'm a streamer crowd.

[@SUpahh100]

That's cope

[@tubesism]

It’s cope and it’s not true people sucked back then too.

[@Farfarawai]

Wrong, all the boomers stopped at Wrath

[@wazypain1197]

Same as sod no one takes you in the raid withouth exp

[@ahmadsoliman9919]

Your just bad if ur hard stuck 6/13 heroics it means your not doing damage, mechanics, your tanks are bad, and you aren’t using raid cds. It’s fine to be bad but don’t say it’s hard rofl

[@ArCSelkie37]

Or you just don't have enough gear too, it's barely been a moth. How much gear suitable for finishing HC raids do they all have?

[@zeakonz70]

They are not… People just need to get GUD 🎉

[@nelsonarceus]

Cata is so much better than retail on everything

[@vgullotta]

Jerome went full Dr Seuss it crushed his soul so much lol

[@marchettinger5972]

All come back to SoD P4. Cata is shit

[@BaldButter]

Nobody cares about this content. Bye

[@therider990]

cataclysm is dying because its not classic

[@digital6953]

Noobs getting owned by PvE, good one.

[@fallen123gb]

Bad players saying Cata is bad. smh

[@drafman1]

What is with this clickbait title? Jesus

[@yadigthat8806]

Yeah basically most gamers are lazy

[@christopherozouf]

Most people aren't that good at the game or don't want to spend the time to be very good at the game. People also want the best gear in the game. So if they can't get that best gear they'll find another game. People also just get bored. Churn, burnout, and raid logging are going to happen. Guild burnout has always happened in every expansion and got worse with each expansion as the raids got harder. Mythic + helped somewhat with this as organizing 5 people is a lot easier but the same principles apply. Molten Core had the most clears in classic and BWL had roughly 70-80% of that and by the time of Naxx it was like 25%. Servers died in TBC to make a few massive ones. Even on a massive server in wrath burn out got worse and worse every tier until we just never got down more than 1/4 of ICC heroics despite full clearing previous content. We could full clear it on normal every week but once again since people wanted the best gear and didn't get it they either quit for another guild or quit the game. That was my main 25 heroic guild. My smaller casual 10 man guild did all of ToGC on heroic every week but we couldn't even full clear naxx 10 on normal. Part of it was a skill issue but ICC almost tripled the bosses as well as adding all the trash meant we just didn't have the play time available to progress. Even over SoD so far we had like 40+ people online at any one time and 90+ on raid nights during phase 1. Tonight we had to cancel because only 14 people showed up and once the raid wasn't going to happen only 3 people were actually playing. It's not like any of this content is hard and we've full cleared everything week one except ST pre-nerf with every raid group we brought in. We also had alt nights that also full cleared constantly so it's not like lack of getting gear was the issue. This is an extremely normal thing that just always happens and the later in the xpac it goes the more and more you have to push as officers to recruit to fight the churn. We're a late night guild so we have less total population to draw from than a prime time guild but the same thing has happened even when I played in prime time guilds because there are more of those guilds fighting for recruits. TLDR: It's hard to organize groups at all and harder content and/or more people is even harder to organize for.

[@Ztygs]

Normal is very easy. Heroic is hard, but doable if everyone pulls their weight and does the mechanics. We're still pretty early on into the expansion, why does EVERYONE need to have 13/13 HC kills already? If you/your guild can't do that yet, why stress? I haven't done 13/13 just 9/13 but we're progressing a little more each week on our 2 raid nights. We're a dad-gamer guild, just trucking along with a main and an alt team of 25man raids. We're having fun even if we're not world first or even server first. This game isn't ONLY about racing to finish a raid first, don't forget the fun along the way.

[@Marshmallowfello]

The thing ive noticed with Cata Classic, is that people think its just classic tank and spank everything for the most part. I know with my guild, people just didnt do the work to get pre raid bis, get consumes, be enchanted, and because of that our Heroic Prog seems to be stagnant. Either way, i still love the majority of my guild, and am having fun raiding so cant complain

[@dumplingshakes22]

Idk it’s fun and challenging

[@jeffharness5163]

All I got from that guys video he was watching was "we suck and we came back everyday in the same gear and people expecting different results". Do some actual progression and don't burn yourself out. Get some normal gear come back and prog a few new bosses the next week.

[@secretsquirrel4375]

I am the guild master of one of the largest raiding guilds in Faerlina in Cata classic. Almost everything said in this video was 100% accurate. The way I separate our raids is we have multiple 10 man groups. Our heroic progression 10 mans run Friday and Saturday. Our normal only 10 man groups raid Sunday. The normal 10 man groups are led by the alts of the heroic groups. We take fresh 85 (this weekend I took 2 85’s who had

[@J2911L]

Having cleared 13/13 hc on 10 man, none of the bosses reach the difficulty of LK heroic. As far as difficulty, the gear will even out a lot of it, so in 3-4 weeks you'll see a lot more guilds and players reaching 13/13 hc on their mains. Also none of the Cata heroic bosses even touch Mythic retail difficulty, you could argue the first 3-4 bosses on Mythic retail are fairly free, but overall none of the Cata bosses have a lot of mechanics. It's mostly 3-4 mechanics per boss, which really isn't difficult. Just requires you to pay attention

[@patgal8018]

25 man hc is easyer then 10 man hc

[@callahansimon18]

I’m a dad gamer, a few hours a week and I was able to pug at noon on a Sunday BWD 10 and 25 on my blood DK. had some wipes on Nefarian on p3 but we got it eventually, in and out in less than 2 hours. I did not have that experience in ICC, as AGAIN I never downed the LK during the xpac. Overall cataclysm is more casual friendly and the gearing is MUCH easier. If anything, Cata will keep subscriber counts high because of the accessibility..

[@daranhassinger1360]

Everyone in here saying “cata isn’t hard….” Compared to vanilla, tbc, and wotlk yes it is. It was purposely done because during and after wotlk people complained that the content was too easy. So blizzard stepped it up on purpose and what happened? “Cata killed wow.” “Cata is when wow died.” It’s all connected. Cata itself is fun. But I’d say the majority just wants to be able to slowly progress and eventually kill all Heroics. But due to life and families and jobs, people don’t have the time to dedicate the amount of hours they need to, to complete all heroics. So stop cappin