Are Creators the Problem With Comics?

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[@DirkManning]

Great conversation all around (as always), top to bottom! I know you couldn't hear it, but I was applauding several points made by all of you at various points in this discussion. Lots of #epictruth moments herein!

[@TheComicsPals]

Thank you Dirk! 👊👊

[@atomichound1868]

Wow! As you all are aware, a lot of thoughts here, as you guys are kind enough to allow me space on Discord and your chats. Let’s be clear; I would not blame or assign cause to creators for the softness in today’s market for western comics. The fundamental problem is a lack of diversity of product- there are simply too many superhero comics, especially from the Big Two. This weakens their brands by decompressing story lines, having titles that do not add value to the overall line, additional coordination between creative teams and confusing the consumer about which titles “matter”. Marvel and DC need to delve into other genres, as they have in the past, like horror, war, spy, noir and others to create a comprehensive experience across their line, not just rotate mini series across C and D list superhero characters because they can’t sustain their own title. This over saturation does result in creative teams being hired that probably have no business working for the Big Two, but blaming them for fundamentally unsound business practices on the part of the company is misguided and unfair.

[@ahmedbinbakr2198]

I have a hypothesis: a comic reader generally prefers the comic style written in the interval of (15,27) of his age. meaning a person that likes comics prefers the era of his teens to mid twenties. I know anecdotally, this is true for me. although I started reading comics in my late 20s in 2012, I prefer comics from 2002 to 2014 era that references my childhood more. so to me, peak marvel is bendis, brubaker, fraction, Milar, Ennis, Slott, and Hickman (I was born in 87). to most of the older guys, marvel is Byrne, Claremont, Simonson, miller, Shooter... (I love DD by Miller and FF by Byrne and own them on omnibus form, but that bendis/ brubaker back to back is my jam!). Top Dc is Johns, Loeb, Rucka, Morrison and Snyder... maybe to current readers, Tom King, Joshua Williamson, Jed Mackay and Chip Zdarsky... is the gold standard.. any way, its just a thought I had when reflecting on my jumping off point from main continuity as I mostly now buy back issues from that era exclusively.

[@TheComicsPals]

Thank you for offering that very valid and legitimate perspective. I think it's largely true. For me, I love the era I started reading comics in and it's hard to imagine that I'll love another era the same way, but outside of that initial period I've never enjoyed comics more than I do right now.

[@comicalopinions]

This is a bizarre form of circular logic. "We would see writer XYZ as a superstar creator if the Big 2 marketed their work more because their work is great." is not how that works. The measure of a creator's star status should be prioritized first and foremost on their ability to create comics that people want and are willing to pay for. That measure is frequently skewed by loyalty to a character/brand, but it generally holds. Whether any individual panel member anecdotally likes most of the comics received is irrelevant when compared to how well the titles are selling. Marketing plays a part, but it always starts with quality. Poor quality doesn't sell, so if comics aren't selling at the same level as they have in years or decades past, that's a strong indicator of a loss of quality.

[@TheComicsPals]

I largely agree with what you're saying, and said as much during the conversation. I'm of the belief that there are a lot of reasons why comics have struggled and will continue to, and I think quality is a part of that, at least at the Big 2.

[@davelowther2499]

You're right that Marvel & DC have changed focus to character. I love their characters but I'm happy to see creators using the big 2 to make more $ elsewhere. I'd hope Bill Finger would be smiling somewhere to see that

[@TheComicsPals]

I am too, I just miss the days of the biggest names being on the biggest books.

[@100ironclaw]

im just getting into comics and while im getting some lay of the land, im starting to pick up that there are less iconic, memorable, impactful and more gimmicky, forgettable, pointless runs within the big two from what im hearing in the last decade or so. also, and maybe this is just my sensibilities for how long a story should last bein not yet attuned to comic standards, for a very solid story run like the court of owls saga to last in total only twelve issues is absolutely unforgivable. i was deeply unsatisfied for how really inappropriately brief it was. the concept of the court of owls alone along with synders writing and capullos art could've easily produced a run that lasts for fifty issues. all in all, i am very worried that ive just stepped into the marvel and dc arena ready to be transformed only to maybe find it going largely out of fashion these days.

[@TheComicsPals]

Hey, welcome to the world of comics and thank you for giving our channel a try! I think of comics just like any other medium. You probably don't watch a majority of television shows or movies that release in a year, right? Not everything is gonna be a homerun, but as you develop your tastes and figure out which writers really speak to you and you'll get better at choosing the "good" from the bad", and by that I mean what books will fit your sensibilities. I absolutely do not believe there are less good comics now than there used to be. On the subject of story length, Court of Owls was a piece of a much longer story that Snyder and Capullo told over several years. You have to keep in mind how long comics take to produce. A 50 issue "arc" would last around 4 years. That's a very long time for a story to be trapped in the same ARC. Compare the length of Court to some of the most celebrated work of all time like The Dark Knight Returns or Batman: Year One, both of which are only 4ish oversized issues. It's not about length it's about quality. Overall, I would say you're in the BEST place you could be. You just started reading comics so all the classic stories are ahead of you, and right now, almost all the top level characters from Marvel & DC have a hot book out. Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man (IMO), Hulk, Thor are all thriving right now. I've been reading comics for 20 years and with the exception of the first few, I've never enjoyed comics more than I do now.

[@realdopecomics]

The Image Revolution is the reason the big two no longer market and promote artists and writers as superstars. Today it’s all about the opportunity of being put on a book then the actual talent’s popularity. This allows the big two to keep disrespectfully low page rates. You mixed that with terrible royalty pay….once you become a big enough name you think to yourself why am I here. Today the big two bank on the fact they have the best characters and us comic readers are going to buy whatever they put out regardless of talent level.

[@TheComicsPals]

Spot on.

[@miguelorozco4445]

Editors are the real villains specially in Marvel and DC

[@TheComicsPals]

Would you care to expand on that thought?

[@TheComicsPals]

@@feeWAIVER Wow. I'm not sure how you could enjoy this channel if those are the things you believe. Definitely not the kinds of ideas we subscribe to here.

[@TheComicsPals]

@@feeWAIVER I'm not going to argue with you about this, but for the sake of other viewers who might read this: no, those things are not documented and they are not true.