Are EVs Dead?! Reacting to

[@1MarkKeller]

Once upon a time ... gas stations didn't exist, and when they did, they weren't as ubiquitous as they are now either. Once upon a time, electricity wasn't everywhere, nor were phone lines or cable connections or cell service. Electric cars aren't going away anytime soon.

[@rsteeb]

EVs aren't going away *EVER*

[@aceroadholder2185]

By the 1920s gas stations were everywhere. Every country store sold gasoline.

[@keithwahl8182]

@@rsteeb Agreed they're not going away. They'll just be one segment of the industry, not the replacement.

[@lemongavine]

And air conditioning was gaining popularity but the grid couldn’t handle it. The grid grew to accommodate just like it will for EVs

[@keithwahl8182]

@lemongavine It will, but even after site c we are a NET importer of energy. We probably can't build more dams. We need more energy every year, so nuclear may be the only option.

[@jimbo4551]

I just came back from my fifth trip to Boston from Long Island. I started the trip at 83% battery, SC once about 20 miles from my destination to 70%, drove all around for two days and left the third day. Started my journey home and had to SC once more after 96 miles to 75%. Made it home with plenty of battery left. Love my Tesla and the built in navigation. I spent maybe a total of 45 minutes at the SC. Not an inconvenience at all!

[@Salty1952]

Keeping the wife happy with her Rav4 Prime. However, the Prime is much better on battery. The 2.5 L 4 is buzzy and almost noisy. Knowing that and watching tons of KZbin vids, I bought a '23' MYLR. Within 6 mos we made the Thanksgiving trip to my sister's house in Cocoa Beach, Fl from our home in the White Mountains. It was stupid easy and fun. We're in our 70's so breaks every 3 hrs is standard. No hassles with finding charging and only one issue on the whole round trip where slow charging meant a stop of 45 minutes. I'm not going back... haha

[@g-mang-man7924]

@@Salty1952 Our next Toyota. RAV4 Prime. Current corral, 04 ES330, 11 Tacoma and 15 Sienna. Will probably trade the Sienna.

[@Mr.Ramirez95]

We’re not going back!

[@muskrat3291]

I'm with you. I recently drove my Kona EV from my home in Sedona, AZ to Los Gatos, CA which is about 800 miles. The Kona only charges at 76 KW, but I left Sedona early in the morning and I was in Los Gatos in time for dinner. This is a trip I've done many times with gas but with the EV I was more refreshed and relaxed. I am also in my 70s and I will never go back to gas.

[@anthonyhalkyer2036]

I have a 2017 Prius Prime and I agree with you. After the 22 miles of electric the motor sounds buzzy and the car is a much better experience when its fully electric. After a few weeks of ownership I had just wished that the whole thing was electric so i don’t have to waste time at the dealership to have the engine serviced. After 125k miles, 65% of my miles is electric. Next car, it will he fully electric for sure.

[@macmcleod1188]

It has been pretty brutal to drive 500 or more miles per day since I've been in my 50s. But ignoring that, it costs about $60 to drive 500 miles in an ice vehicle while it costs about $15 to drive 500 mi in an electric vehicle.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@EpicDrew15 thanks. It will vary by the vehicle of course. Some EVs get 3 m/kwH while others get close to 4m/kwH. Some ICE (trucks) get 14 m/gallon while others get 56m/gallon (sub compacts). But it caught my eye because I planned to do a drive around the United States when I retired and it was going to be close to $1,000 worth of gasoline alone.

[@conradfuller6697]

Yes I have a similar experience, when I charge on solar at home the savings are immense!

[@jmontgomry1]

More like $50 for 500 miles in an EV if you use public chargers. The rates are getting ridiculous in some places....removing any savings.

[@mk1st]

Thank you for mentioning how subsidized the oil industry is

[@tatata1543]

As is the EV industry, to be fair.

[@bluetoad2668]

​@@tatata1543not too the same extent as oil.

[@slivkask8329]

Really? Just check how big a tax on fossil fuel is. It is completely opposite than for EVs.

[@tatata1543]

@@bluetoad2668 Really, how much does the state contribute to each ice vehicle sale and how much subsidies are oil companies provided with to open new facilities? EVs are heavily subsidised, it’s a fact. The idea that that industry is losing out in support from the government doesn’t wash.

[@moarpwr4414]

Globally, the oil and gas industry received over $7 trillion in subsidies. An industry that generates billions daily received trillions while also generating record profits. The EV industry, and supporting industries have also been receiving subsidies, but far less. The EV and supporting industries are developing and require more in subsidies while the oil and gas industry is quite mature.

[@tobyray8700]

Anyone who thinks Evie is over with does not understand the global automotive industry. The biggest fear is change.

[@spazoq]

Actually, I know quite a bit about the global automotive industry. The only reason Tesla gets close to making money on an EV is because they are vertically integrated. If they made ICE cars that way, they would make more money on those than the rest of the industry. Do you believe the rest of the industry is going to go back to a method of operations they ejected decades ago? Everyone else is losing money at the current high price EVs cost otherwise. EVs aren't paying for roads, they aren't cheaper to operate. They have been getting government subsidies that gas cars do not.

[@IdrisFashan]

@@spazoq depends where you live. Subsidies are state and province-applied as well as federally applied. In Canada, most provinces don’t have subsidies, so the EV risk is entirely on the customer. Cars were heavily subsidized in the past for the same reasons, and incentives are a tool that can be better applied across the west. Also, using the same metrics for emergent tech as established tech is incorrect. There isn’t infrastructure for EV parts and supply chains across western companies, and until there are enough models to build it, EVs will remain fringe. But that not how it is in Asia. Wider adoption, established supply chain and maturer pricing strategies. Still, it’s coming here… eventually.

[@spazoq]

@@IdrisFashan EVs are 50 years away from replacing ICE. Most technlogies that would help EVs will help ICE too. Lighter materials, better tires, all help ICE. Lithium ion batteries are far too dangerous. Imagine sitting in stopped traffic with cars all around you, and the battery in the EV next to you decides to instantly turn into a 4000 degree blowtorch right into your open window. That video is going to really turn people off. And it's going to happen as more and more EVs get on the road, and they get older.

[@IdrisFashan]

@@spazoq I recommend you look at a place called china. EV sales OUTSHOT combustion sales this year. 50 years for America to go EV? Maybe… 10 years max for the rest of the world. 😄 Also, lithium batteries not made by Tesla are pretty safe… BYD’s entire staff would be disappeared by the one party in China if it was killing people. That’s a joke, but seriously, batteries have come a long way, unless you’re Tesla. 😆

[@voidtempering8700]

​@@spazoq1. Hybrids are a thing 2. ICE vehicles catch fire more than EV vehicles.

[@davedujour1]

Every time someone brings up the range thing I tell them about my 2 week, 3300+ mile trip from MN to CO and back. A fairly typical road trip vacation. Most of the time the humans had to take a break before the car needed too, and the car was fueled up and ready before the humans were done with lunch. This is a normal vacation that was 3 years ago already and charging stations have just become more common.

[@catbert7]

Yup. I have never spent more than 10 minutes at a supercharger.

[@dominolehmann8227]

The funny thing is even in Germany or here in Switzerland people talk about range even if you can go through the countr with 300-400km / 300miles. 😂

[@bobbybishop5662]

​@@catbert7BS

[@matsvanzelm7220]

@@dominolehmann8227 same here in the Netherlands. 😂.

[@bradleyanderson4315]

Gas refineries are one of the heaviest users of both electricity and cobalt. It takes a minimum of 8 kWh's to refine a gallon of gasoline. That much electricity can run my car 25 to 30 miles without the additional cost of petroleum.

[@matthewmortensen7401]

In fact US refineries are the third largest consumers of grid electricity. This is a no brainer.

[@mockingbird187]

8kWhs PER gallon? Do you have a source for this? Seems pretty high. I feel like, if that's the case, that alone should close the case for ICE.

[@matthewmortensen7401]

@@mockingbird187 The figure that I have read is 6KWH per gallon of standard gasoline. A pump donkey is roughly 700 watts per gallon pumped and this is before trucking, shipping, refining, trucking again and finally pumping into the gas hole.

[@bobbybishop5662]

​@@matthewmortensen7401Let's see some source for that claim Poindexter.

[@mattmortensen8492]

@@bobbybishop5662There are multiple studies from different agencies that put the number between 4.9 and 7 KWH like the one from Argonne National Labs that shows at 88% refinery efficiency 15000 BTU is required to convert two gallons of crude to a single gallon of gasoline, or 5KWH. Agin this is a mute point as we are just referring to a single very small part of the fossil fuel procurement carbon foot print, we have not even mentioned the fact that 40% of global shipping emmisions is created by shipping fossil fuels.

[@freeheeler09]

I like Doug as well, though I think hybrids are silly for anyone who doesn’t drive 300 miles per day. I appreciate how fair and kind you were in your debate with Doug.

[@BarryObaminable]

hybrid has its place. I have EV and a plug in hybrid. The hybrid is good for going to one of my rental house and back in next town. I can do this on battery and it makes me happy. Performance is ........Meh. But I enjoy not hearing the engine start up. and its nice to know I can drive without charging if i had to pick up the kids from their mothers after summer break. the ev i really really really enjoy. I would love it if my hybrid is the opposite. and is a regular ev with a weak range extender. but its just a regular hybrid with a battery bank added on. Good enough, I guesss.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

PHEVs are a compromise and a gap technology. But, there are still a few places EVs have a hard time reaching or specific use cases (middle of nowhere forest roads). If I did frequent very long travels, I would seriously consider a PHEV to supplement my BEV. My BEV (Tesla Model Y LR) is great for local/errands, and up to medium road trip travels.

[@JoeMcMorrow-k7e]

Hybrids are over complicated and over expensive tax fiddles - at least here in the UK. Most Plug In Hybrids have never seen a charging socket and so the UK and Europe are busy revising the emissions and tax arrangements for these heavy questionably economical machines. Especially when you still have to service them and hump the battery and motor around when they are unavailable.

[@PaleBlueDotCitizen]

Hybrids are silly whether you drive a short or a long distance. The further you drive the more you'll spend on gas

[@PaleBlueDotCitizen]

​@@BarryObaminablego rent a tesla for a weekend, your outlook will be transformed

[@utopaline9491]

Like I keep saying. The charging network is the worst it will ever be right now. It will only get better.

[@craig8638]

As someone who has been driving an EV since 2011 I couldn’t agree more with this statement.

[@1MarkKeller]

Agreed. Once upon a time, not so long ago, gasoline was bought in cans at grocery stores and feed stores because there were few to no gas stations. EVs and their charging infrastructure will only get better going forward.

[@grahamstefaan]

Buy a Tesla. Can't be easier.

[@catbert7]

That's not necessarily true. True for **coverage** but congestion could become worse, if supercharger installation doesn't keep up with the rate of EV production.

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

Started in 2018 driving Teslas across the country. 2500 to 6000 miles per trip, 14 trips so far. Up to 800 miles in a single day. No range anxiety, car usually charged before I was finished eating or using the bathroom. Only waited twice for a Supercharger and less than 5 minutes. I would never travel across the country in an ICE vehicle.

[@orion789]

Ben, youre doing an excellent job with your videos. Simply wonderful. One of the best content creators on KZbin.

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

Wow, thank you!

[@richardalexander5758]

Yes indeed. Fighting FUD and educating those interested to learn about EV ownership.

[@bluetoad2668]

Resale value is one of the most interesting aspects of this - but it's a positive for adoption in fact. These used EVs represent amazing value for money, its really counter intuitive.

[@catbert7]

The reason the resale has taken a dive is that production is finally catching up to demand and the cars keep getting substantially better every years, unlike ICVs, which have pretty much plateaued. Both are good things. Complaining about this is like complaining that they keep coming out with better PCs and smartphones because it's wrecking your resale value.

[@waynerussell6401]

According to the UK AA, in 2024 a new ICE car will lose around 60% after its first three years at a mileage of 10,000 miles a year. The Tesla Model X after three years loses only 43%. Model 3 is one of the brand’s best for withstanding EV depreciation at 40% after three years.Tesla Model Y retains 76% of its value after a year and a half.

[@jmontgomry1]

If you buy into the BS that cars are supposed to be disposable.....they are not. I have some cars from the 60s and 70s still going strong....and will for another 50 years. Good luck with that Tesla when they no longer make the screens or computers. LANDFILL FODDER

[@jmontgomry1]

And good luck getting a battery for an old Tesla 10 years from now..

[@bluetoad2668]

@@jmontgomry1 well I know someone who just got a new battery for their 2014 Model S. That's 10 years ago.

[@mikeshafer]

I think the lower resale value for EVs is a huge boon for the industry. Cheaper EVs for people who want an EV but can’t afford a new one? It’s perfect.

[@macmcleod1188]

I think we should recognize that the falling prices are hard on people who want to buy a car, drive it for 2 years, and then sell it and buy another new car. It's also hard on leasing companies and car rental companies. If you're planning on owning the car for 5 to 8 years, then the depreciation doesn't matter. The car being worth 14,000 instead of 17,000 after 8 years isn't going to matter.

[@mikeshafer]

@@macmcleod1188 cars are not investments. If you only plan to use a car for 2-3 years, lease. Anyone who buys a vehicle (any vehicle) with hopes that they might get a good resale value someday are either delusional or never had basic financial literacy.

[@macmcleod1188]

@@mikeshafer for decades people were able to buy a new car and then sell it at 75% of the value 2 to 3 years later. That model is breaking down temporarily. Leasing has its own unique benefits and risks. For one thing leasing typically has a fairly low mileage limit. If you're going to drive for 12,000 mi a year or less than okay. But if you're talking about making thousand Mile trips, you're going to burn up your lease mileage fast.

[@mikeshafer]

@@macmcleod1188 most people will never do a 1000mi trip in a car ever. Maybe once in a lifetime. In any case, everyone knows that buying a new car means major depreciation. But there was also a time during Covid that people were selling their teslas for a profit. So it fluctuates. Either way I don’t think resale value should be part of the calculus for an EV buyer. And if it is, be smart and buy a used EV at a 40% discount. Win!

[@714mattman]

@@mikeshafer People don't always "plan" to get rid of a vehicle after only owning for a few years. Sometimes situations change and they can no longer afford the vehicle. Sometimes the vehicles does not work out for them for one reason or another. For those people the considerable depreciation of an EV is a real issue. That is the flip side of the coin of the rapid depreciation working in the favor of people buying used EVs.

[@lyfebehyndbars9729]

Based on my observations of the free market. Engines are pretty much doomed. I don’t care if the device is shaped like a car, lawn mower, trimmer, or a ceiling fan. The vast majority of consumers DON’T WANT to deal with engines if they don’t have to. It’s only a matter of time until they start realising they don’t have to anymore.

[@josephhobbs4754]

We have corded electric push mower and weed eater for our smallish yard. So much nicer than burning gas or charging batteries. The wife has only ran over the extension cord once.

[@mohammadwasilliterate8037]

*YES EXACTLY, my parents use all battery powered garden tools!!! even the hedge trimmer and lawnmower.*

[@patrutherford9600]

@@josephhobbs4754 if you have to plug it in to use it i think you'll find it easier to instead plug it in when you put it away

[@cyclenut9992]

You are so right, just this summer I removed all of my gas powered lawn equipment and replaced them with electric ones. Easy to keep charged, always work, never need to buy gas or oil, don’t need to be winterized when not in use, and so quiet I no longer need to use earplugs when I mow. So much winning! Lol

[@lyfebehyndbars9729]

@@cyclenut9992 my mower and original battery are over 15 years old now. still operating like normal with no maintenance ever done. Unless you count sharpening the blade occasionally.

[@AlexanderTanned]

80% of people who have EVs in China charge away from home because they don't live in houses but apartments and yet EV sales are through the roof in China. The infrastructure problem is relatively easy to solve, you just need to install chargers in more places. Not a technical problem, more of a political one.

[@JoeMcMorrow-k7e]

Colder states have block heater sockets to stop ICE cars from, well, turning into ICE. Those sockets can be used to trickle charge.

[@BlindedByLogic]

It is a problem most politician don't want to fix.

[@林振华-t4v]

​@@JoeMcMorrow-k7ethose public 110V may some time have 15on 15 off type of supplier. Not sure the BMS like that, but if say at home. That will defintly work.

[@thomasnyborg6233]

PHEV is completely dead in Norway.They sold ok back in 2015-2020 but not anymore.EV,s now have enough range to get you through the day..And yes, the cost of gasoline is around 11$ a gallon in Europe.

[@ElMistroFeroz]

Yea. They ARE the worst of 2 worlds, in spite of the funny faces our lispy friend makes. Not as efficient as an EV, not as powerful as an ICE, and much more complexity than both.

[@vadimus2007]

I'm Canadian and I've rented Model Y in Iceland recently. With local gas prices around ISK300 (roughly $3 Canadian) I smiled each time passing the gas stations, especially considering the fact that 22kW AC charging was only ISK30-something and fast DC charging including Tesla SC was a bit over ISK60.

[@i6power30]

​@@ElMistroFerozice is powerful? That's a news to me. PHEVs can be more efficient than Bev without having to carry a huge battery pack if you are just traveling short distances on daily basis and only need ice as backup for rare long trips

[@javelinXH992]

@@thomasnyborg6233 This is one thing our friends in the US need to consider about Europe. Our fuel is much more expensive, so EVs are more competitive here than in the US. And not everyone drives a super duper luxury SUV EV. And our distances are generally shorter, our grids are much more robust (I was shocked by how common power outages are in the US) and the charging infrastructure is certainly good enough, despite what non-EV drivers say.

[@dark6c159]

there is not much to drive with in norway.

[@slyktech1860]

I love my Model Y and am willing to pay the one time price if it means not having to spend as much or more with gas, oil changes and other maintenance costs.

[@andyfeimsternfei8408]

EVs are not an issue for the grid. AI data centers are! Each one is 1 Gw+. That's a nuclear power plant's full output. Hundreds of data centers are being built across the country. They have 24/7 loads.

[@millertas]

This is true for all new technology. When buying my first VCR I paid $A650, my second and last $A400 and it was better than my first. 'When to buy new technology? In six months time, ALWAYS in six months time.'

[@stephenwilliams-blacksburg]

One note on the hybrid vs plugin hybrid confusion that some have: I owned a Pacifica Hybrid for a few years. That is the way it's badged and the way it's advertised. BUT it is a plugin hybrid with about 32 miles of electric-only range and a 30kwh battery pack. I loved it. Unfortunately, it ran over a rock that damaged the battery pack enough that the dealer said it needed to be replaced and the insurance company totaled it. That's a video idea for you Ben... discuss the increasing likelihood of having your car totaled if it has a battery pack in it.

[@techringo6469]

My first electric car was a Chevy Volt. It was fantastic and gave me the confidence to move to fully electric. I live in West-Central Wisconsin, so the engine ran regularly in the Winter, when the temp was generally around 0 F, but I was able to go 7,000 miles in 7 months during Spring/Summer/Fall without the engine running. And went 10 months on a single tank of 9 gallons of gas. That was my commuter car so didn't road trip with it. And there are plenty of use cases where full electric isn't great (regular towing in the Winter in Norther Wisconsin for example), so PHEV is a long-term need. I still can't road-trip 100% with my Tesla Model X, which I do generally a dozen or so times/year, often pulling a camper. Two or 3 of them have to be done with our Toyota Highlander Hybrid. That's slowly... very slowly... getting better in the upper Mid-West, but it's still a pretty big limitation. At the current build-out of DC fast chargers, it's probably still 5+ years away where I can do all my trips with my Tesla Model X.

[@Skylancer727]

I completely disagree, EVs change far more dramatically from year to year than gas, that's the whole reason their sales values have been dropping. I don't think it's at all the demand, EV demand is still fairly high and as you've shown over 60% of people would consider an EV for their next car, as would I. But EVs have been dramatically changing really adding doubt on when you should buy one. We have new batteries coming like iron phosphate and sodium ion, faster charging rates like 350kwh, changing the entire charging standard making those who bought early have more screwy charge rates or needing $200-400 adapters, different motor types from radial to axial, permanent magnet vs induction motors, the possibility of wireless charging standards, etc. What exactly has been changing year to year on gas cars in comparison? What that they now have a panoramic camera view or a different exterior design? I mean a 2021 and 2022 Camry are so similar when my sister hit a deer they used the other's front end for a replacement. They look different but they even have identical mounting. Really the big upgrades in gas are the same ones with EVs, just a couple more luxury features for the highest end model and that's about it. In EVs there's also things like different display processors, software upgrades, plug to charge payment, etc.

[@catbert7]

Yup. EV resale is hurt by EVs being an evolving and improving technology, unlike ICVs, which plateaued long ago. Hard to see that as a bad thing.

[@curtm]

BEV-All the Way! We have been 100% BEV since late 2018, and along the way, on top of everyday driving, we took three 1k-3k road trips. It works like a charm. Granted, we can charge at home, and I recognize that not being able to charge overnight does change the equation. Nonetheless - BEV is the way forward.

[@f3rr31r4]

Why did you use the 0-60 argument comparing the tacoma and the rivian? Wouldn't towing, payload, repairability be more useful?

[@bradleyanderson4315]

Part of the reason for a sales slow down: high interest rates, 3 years of high inflation thus reducing funds available for a new EV, gas prices being comparably cheap if compared to history and to inflation, the head of the EV manufacturer responsible for over half of all EVS sold in the USA stepping on(use your imagination), software problems in several models, bizarrely complex tax incentives, overly complex user interfaces, politically motivated FUD, states slow walking the NEVI projects. Some of these are subject to possible improvement but some are baked into the next few years.

[@catbert7]

That's all potential effects on demand but the cause of reduction in sales growth, at least for Tesla, is that they reached capacity for their factories and haven't yet completed their new production lines for the cheaper models and/or robotaxi. It's a transition period, just like multiple that came before when ramping new models.

[@spazzman90]

The US take on EVs will be much different than Europe mainly because of the difference in fuel prices. The oil industry here is fighting a silent war on EVs. Right now. Gas prices are what I would consider to be artificially low. $3.50 where I live, and I've seen gas over $5 a gallon here many times over the last 15 years. In 2024, $5 would still be quite reasonable for most households, it would probably take at least $7 for people raise an eyebrow. $8 or higher, and every EV would sell, instantly. But, the game is afoot. And only a few know how things are going to go for this country, and they ain't talking.

[@Cybertruck_69]

60% of US oil comes from 🇨🇦. Tariffs are going to increase your gas prices significantly. That said, a portion of your electricity comes from 🇨🇦, so buckle up for the next four years.

[@xaionik]

The total cost of ownership is a hard sell when the upfront cost of the car is what turns people away. More than half of the country can't afford the current average price of a car. High EV sticker prices have to come down for mass adoption. Bolt EUV and Tesla Model 3/Y proves this when the sticker price drops below $35k after the tax rebate.

[@catbert7]

Except the Model Y was the best-selling car in the world before the price drop... And TCO is MUCH more representative of how people actually acquire cars. 20% lease while 64% finance, so almost every car-buyer is paying in monthly installments, not upfront. When you account for the savings in fuel and maintenance, EVs (at least Teslas) have lower monthly payments, not higher.

[@metricstormtrooper]

Here in Australia we are allowed to buy Chinese EVs, there is a choice of EVs comparable and cheaper than Toyota Corollas.

[@Skittles20Candy-k2h]

It’s not the end of EVs, it’s the beginning of EVs. I’m replacing all my gas cars with EVs.

[@eTreyu27]

Same. Got the 2nd one in Jan. Works very well for my family and our lifestyle, and we can charge at home. Should be set for 10 years+

[@freeheeler09]

Same! ICE car sales will crash as more affordable EVs come to the market. And, we are on the edge of a spectacular home energy disruption. Solar panel prices will fall by half, to the prices at which panels are sold in Australia, Europe, etc. in the next few years. And, when home battery prices fall to the cost at which car batteries are sold right now, every home and small business owner will generate and store their own power. Right now, a tiny, 13 kWh Powerwall costs about 1000 per kWh installed. Within a few years, we will see 40 kWh batteries, the minimum size needed for the average home to go off grid, for less than $10,000. .

[@jlaw1901]

What’s it like owning a home?

[@marcdenlinger5282]

Yes!

[@1MarkKeller]

​@jlaw1901 buy a hybrid in the meantime.

[@conradfuller6697]

Excellent video thanks Ben.

[@glowgoat]

Thanks for the videos, Ben! As a model y and mach-e owner I am constantly having these conversations almost every day with coworkers and family. I relate to all these talking points! I have zero interest in going back to ICE vehicles... Keep up the good work!

[@rsteeb]

My Tesla and Zero motorcycles are all powered by free electricity from my rooftop PV array. I could NOT be more satisfied. Gasoline free since 2018!😎

[@solartime8983]

@@rsteeb 🌅SMART MAN!! 🎇🍾 ME2🗽

[@eman67rp]

The media does this intentionally

[@micsupra1]

I just got a 2021 used Model 3P and love it. I never going back to gas cars.

[@ProtoKyle6]

Thank you Ben, for watching his videos so I don't have to... But still get to hear what "gas car guys" are saying.

[@jb3246]

Stopped at a SC and got the last of 12 available spots. Went inside the Culvers (Wisconsin Dells) and had a quick lunch (~20 mins). Came back out and mine was the only Tesla. It may take a long time to charge to 100%, but most stops at a SC on road trips are only 10-25 minutes long. So a car is leaving every couple of minutes.

[@JasonTaylor-po5xc]

I've driven my Tesla Model Y, not fully across the country, but in a single multi-week trip like crossing the country twice (5700 miles) plus driving it from Colorado to Florida a few times. In practice, my MYLR, after 2.5 years of service, gets close to 220 miles at highway speeds (75-80 mph) on a full charge, then a re-charge up to 80% (about 20 minutes) gives me another 170-ish miles. My easy rough math is basically 2-times the percent equals the "safe" miles I can go on the highway/interstate. Yeah, I should get more but the math is easy and has only let me down once. There was one time I crossed Oklahoma from Arkansas with a very strong headwind and almost didn't make the 195 mile gap on I-40 - starting from a full charge in Van Buren, AR and arriving in OKC with only 2% to spare. It was the only time I've actually had range anxiety. The problem is that I had to hyper-mile (going 15 mph under the speed limit) to even make that happen. If I had a standard range Y, I would not have made it. I'm _really_ hoping Tesla adds a stop in the middle to close the gap. Most of my stops are actually 10-15 minutes, occasionally 20 on V3. This is typically how long it take for a bathroom break and to grab a snack - especially if I have the family with me. But, if on super long travels (full day) - there are times when I have to charge without needing to couple it with any other activity - and those are the times I think a gas car would have been nice (but then I remember the lack of maintenance on the EV). LOL If charging on V2, who knows - I try to charge enough to make it to a V3 if possible. The main problem on V2 is sharing the power delivery - which basically cuts it in half (or worse) - so I avoid them when possible. I suppose I have been lucky. I've put on 43,000 miles in nearly 3 years but I have never had to wait at a supercharger. There have been times when I snagged the last charger and someone came in right after me and had to wait - but that is a rare scenario. The main thing is that you think about fueling very differently when you own an EV. I no longer stop at the local gas station weekly or play the E-Roulette game or wait in the long line at Sams Club. I just charge overnight and always have 85% battery for the day - this alone makes up for the occasional long charging sessions for the handful of long road trips I take each year. But, I'm fortunate enough to have a garage with a L2 charger installed to make that possible.

[@leesprout5820]

Even with "sales dropping" I'm interested in seeing the used EV market being the gateway to more sales! I picked up a 17 Bolt for $9,500 *after credit That infinitely opens the door for first time EV buyers.

[@kipper2k]

if you state sales slump of EV's then you must show the stats for ICE cars overall as the losses for ICE vehicles is worse. Th e cost of gasoline, maintenance and the possibiliy of parts replacement increasing is gonna hurt. Take a look at te parts an ICE vehicle needs, so complicated and the cost through the dealers is scandalous . Bye Bye ICE

[@Geckogold]

Great video overall. One thing I would add is that apartments being required to install EV chargers are a California thing. It's not nationwide so many states likely won't implement anything like that anytime soon. But it will make a great test case for other states to study in order to figure out the best way to implement this as more EV's show up on the roads. Regarding plug-in hybrids, I'm of the school of thought that they're a great transitional vehicle to get people used to the idea of driving electric without the range anxiety worries. I bought a Prius, which started me on the idea of moving a vehicle around without burning a drop of gas, even if for just short distances. I later got a 2017 Volt, and it had enough EV range that I was able to do my 38 mile/61 km work commute entirely on electric. In most use cases, so long as it had a charge, it was as "EV" as a Nissan Leaf or a Tesla, but it did run the engine every 6 weeks for 10-15 minutes to lube itself up. I actually started to get annoyed any time the engine turned on for this or during really cold temps. In my last year of ownership, I didn't have any long trips planned, so the Volt "yelled" at me for not using the gas enough that it was in danger of going stale. It then forced the engine on, and I had to run on gas for 5 days until it burned enough off and I refilled it with fresh gas to reset that internal clock (most Volt owners wouldn't see this as they'd be running gas regularly, especially if they take trips). But it was amusing that I had a nearly year old tank of gas in my car that was just dead weight. I would've gladly bought a Voltec-powered Equinox if GM made one. But they instead announced they were killing off the Volt, and at the time only offered the Bolt EV, which is okay for local trips but not a great road tripper. I got a 2020 Tesla Model Y back in June 2020, and currently have 101k miles/162.5k km on it after only 4 years, if that gives you any idea of how much I've driven it. Road trips are really easy in a Tesla thanks to the Supercharger network and Autopilot doing the boring mundane driving on the interstate.

[@jform8147]

I think Doug has the California experience with Superchargers. I travel the east cost without any issues. In fact, I have never had to wait

[@SHOE53]

EV are getting close to 25k and a range of 400 miles that would be a big plus for folks who are on the fence, these new ICE are so complicate and costly people will go to EV.

[@deathab0ve]

14:00 This is why I just got an EV. I wanted a Tesla since the Model S, but I never had any money. I was dead set on buying a Chevy Bolt, but they were always $20k or more. I don't have that much to spend on a car. So I saved for years. As I was about to buy a car, the Bolts that were $27k last year were suddenly $12k. I almost bought one, but then I looked around Tesla Model 3 Performance can be new at $60k now at $30k for about 30k miles on it, if you are willing to go to 50k miles, then it is like $20k for a performance Tesla. But I settled on a Polestar 2, Leather, Plus, Performance, Pilot that was new $72,000 and now on sale for $25,000, that is a 63% value drop for 30k Miles. I could not resist and bought the moment I saw that deal. From my math I save $50 ish a month from gas, so in 5 years I would save $3,000. Not to mention no oil change and never changing these breaks. About another $1000 total over 5 years. To me Right Now EVs are what to buy especially a Polestar. Interest rates are high, but Polestars do not sell well so they offer a 5% APR if you have a 700 or higher credit score. 5% is very low for today. My other car was 11%, and the car I was thinking about (WRX) was quoting me 14%. That 9% difference is thousands of dollars total. I drive 40 miles a day for work. My friends live 90 miles away and I comfortable drive there and back without charging despite that being 180miles of my 220 total. I will even drive around near their home a bit without fear. If I did need to get some charge, in 10 minutes I can get enough for the entire trip back home, I haven't but it is nice to know I can. (I have yet to drive in the winter. This does worry me a bit, but I know it is still within my limits of the car)

[@grahamstefaan]

You'll regret not getting the M3P.

[@deathab0ve]

@@grahamstefaan $10,000 more for more milage on it? Nah I aint paying an extra $180 a month just for 0.8 quicker 0-60, 60 more mile of range I wont use, and a less performant track car, which is what I wanted. I test drove a 3, loved it, but the handling of the Polestar is just so nice. Also interior finish of the polestar is way nicer, but the storage is way worse. Also it is a hatch back a REQUIREMENT for me. So if I did go Tesla I would actually Go model Y, which is now similar 0-60, less track, cheaper, and more close in miles. Honestly I would pick Tesla Y if the same price. However My neighbor flies a giant Trump flag and has bragged about popping/slashing Tesla tires. So nah I am not getting a Tesla purely for that. Even if I love the car I would not. Model 3 is 2.9 0-60 P2PPP is 3.7(Both companies claim a slower time, these number are real world.) I love Tesla cars, but If you never given a Polestar a chance then it isn't fair. IMO it is the most comparable to a Tesla. Sure range of old ones is lacking. But a new one is just as good as Tesla while Being a perfect mix of Model 3 and Y that I like.

[@chrishar110]

@@deathab0ve I can't understand why Trump fans hate Teslas so much. Elon is the biggest Trump campaign supporter.

[@waynerussell6401]

@@deathab0ve Polestar is a rapidly failing company. Sales dropping at 40% last quarter, layoffs from management to board to line workers - down 15% ytd. Polestar Board Chair Håkan Samuelsson will retire following the Company’s AGM. Winfried Vahland replaces him - failed ex CEO and President of Volkswagen Group China who in spite of many CEOs has crashed in China. Christine Gorjanc and Laura Shen have been proposed as new directors, bringing finance and reporting experience (no more missed filings?!)

[@deathab0ve]

@@waynerussell6401 Cool, point is?

[@CYBRLFT]

…. Yeah I can back up the issue with his cross country statement. We’ve taken our Y to Florida and back to San Diego and drove again to central Florida for our move in the Y again in August packed full in both scenarios. The average stop was about 12-15 minutes every 2 hours or so and it is not a significant hindrance lol. Also never had to wait for a charger. The crowded argument is just not true in our case. I did a trip vlog compilation talking about it kzbin.info/www/bejne/eoXLaXuCacaGbtksi=VIgnwwKlPvq605W7

[@ardy0702]

I’m in Ireland, where public charging is not the cheapest. Drive about 45k km per year (do your own freedom unit conversion) which is about 3x the average on this tiny island. An apartment dweller with no home charging to boot. The average cost per km is comparable to a rather efficient diesel. Yet I would never go back simply for how enjoyable the EV drivetrain is to eat up long drives. The most important aspect is going into it knowing what you’re signing up to. The only “regression” I’d consider is a luxury camper van. Other than that, my MYLR has been a great road trip and tow vehicle alike. The only vehicle I’m eyeballing (but can’t come to terms with) is the VW ID Buzz. Gas or diesel simply do not even feature after Tesla ownership. In the process of getting a house and a home charger so it’s not even an argument soon enough.

[@chlistens7742]

i have seen articles that say that plug in hybrids are more likely to catch fire than gas and EV's have been quoted as about 16times less likely to catch fire.. can we get something confirming or correcting me on these figures

[@superbigblack]

45 minutes to charge? What is he charging? The Hummer EV? I doubt the 45 min to an hour time is using the most sold EV in America, which is disingenuous. If it was the other way, a pro EV channel would get yelled at if they didn't compare an EV to the Camry when talking about MPG.

[@aceroadholder2185]

Unless you live on a drag strip, do you need a vehicle that can get to 60mph in 3 seconds?

[@Pillokun]

Because of the lacking range, the EVs are beating themselves on the chest by the perf aspect which is a moot aspect for 99% of people.

[@林振华-t4v]

Yes, the rapid acceleration can make over taking lot saver. So you are reducing the time on Incoming traffic lane, less time in paralle. When I am overtaking a semi with my 2005 civic, I feel like playing with Russian roulette. My civic can take up to 15 to 20 seconds to overtake a semi on a 90km/h highway (and I need to rev the crap out of the 1. 7 liter 4banger to get this number) , a Rwd model 3 my wont take longer 10 to 15 second to complete the menuver. That 5 second diffence is lot of uncertainty.

[@krslavin]

Plug-in hybrids have a few issues: 1. they are the most prone to vehicle fires - more than pure ICE or EVs, mainly due to their complexity and proximity of ICE engine heat to batteries. 2. you may not realize that the ICE part isn't working for some reason, unless you force the engine to start before starting a long trip. 3. if plug-in hybrids and EVs take over the new car market, then gasoline demand will fall so low that many gas stations will go out of business, forcing ICE car owners to buy EVs, and ultimately the ICE part of the plug-in will become useless, and you will just have a very low range EV.

[@conradfuller6697]

45 minutes to an hour to charge?? That’s crazy, it’s much less than that! A recent 670km trip of mine had 19 minutes of charging time.

[@deanbortz7747]

I always like watching your channel, and appreciate you sharing the data.

[@proximaone1350]

Another great video Ben, I’ll check out your podcast.

[@sambira]

Ben, the one thing that I've noticed about most people that buy almost anything is that they really only focus on cost to obtain something and not the total ownership costs. For example, I bought a jacket almost 20 years ago that was $90 and everyone was telling me just to get this other jacket for $10. Well, I still have my $90 jacket and those that told me to get the $10 one have since bought 3-5 jackets at increasing cost to them which in total have exceeded the cost of my $90 jacket. This is a small example but is pretty common from my experience.

[@davidlloyd8135]

Most people don't know that regen braking is hard on the battery life. Most batteries have a certain amount of charge cycles and every time you step on the brake it is part of a cycle

[@toddr.lockwood843]

When Toyota introduced the Plug-in Hybrid version of the Prius, I took the time to do the math and realized that the difference in price to upgrade to the Plug-in Hybrid version would take 7 years to recover in fuel savings, several years longer than I would likely own the car. Even now, I think Plug-in Hybrids are a feel-good purchase that mimic the benefits of an EV, but don't actually deliver the promised savings. Studies on Plug-in Hybrids have shown that many owners do not regularly plug them in.

[@UrbanPorcupine]

I read a book awhile back that made the point that people usually overestimate the impact of a new technology in 5 years but underestimate it's impact in 15 years. This happened with the internet in the 90s for example. If you start with the Model 3, given that it was the first real "average person" EV, I think we are in between the 5-15 years time for EVs.

[@sparkytas]

I have an EV and a home charger, so know the reality that most EV owners rarely need to charge at public chargers. The problem is that the public charging network rollout in many places greatly lags need. As a Tesla stock holder I'm extremely angry with Elon for dramatically slowing the build out of the Supercharger network. He claimed that the electrification of Transport is a central goal. There is only one single Supercharger in the whole of the Southern Australian state of Tasmania, yet massive numbers of Tasmanian people bought a Tesla, and feel betrayed. Tasmania has 95% renewable energy, mostly Hydro, followed by wind, a growing amount of solar and 1 gas peaker that is only operated during drought periods. We need public charging to catch up before EV uptake can grow again.

[@alanlight7740]

The superchargers are primarily intended to allow EVs to go places that are beyond the range of normal chargers. That's why they are focused around major highways and at intervals where a driver can easily reach one supercharger from another. The intention was never to provide places where EV owners would fill up regularly for day-to-day driving. There are several reasons for this ranging from prioritizing limited resources to avoiding monopoly status or the appearance of monopoly status, which tends to invite a public backlash and government intervention. Tasmania is small enough that superchargers are not as much needed as in other places. Charging stations at home or at workplaces, at shopping centers or at existing gas stations should be the norm - though looking now I see at least 14 Tesla destination charger locations in Tasmania. Perhaps you should bring your concerns to the attention of local businesses or relevant governmental agencies - though of course you can also recommend locations for more superchargers to Tesla as well. Just keep in mind why they have their priorities.

[@Batucadax]

If ppl just look at it as another alternative mode of transportation. Just like motorcycle, escooters even. If ev fits into your transportation needs, good for you, if it doesn't find something that does. Doesn't have to eliminate one so another survive. At least in my own country

[@happygarage6310]

I enjoyed Doug's opinion video, as well as your reaction. The change is coming like it or not.

[@bobbituka123]

EV owner 4 years. No maintenance, swoosh past gas stations, daily driver here in the Bay Area within 300 miles. We also have a Level 2 charger with solar panels. We also have a 2016 Toyota hybrid SUV for trips longer than 300 miles. Will always have an EV in our garage.

[@elmojito]

As someone that lived in LA during the 70's I remember the first time I was able to see the mountains around the city. It only happened during Santa Ana winds. Can you see the more today? That is why California got strict with emissions then and from what I hear it is much better. That should be the incentive behind EV's as yes, all climate improvement measure are needed but to improve the quality of the air in our cities, which is where the mayority of people in the world live, has great impact on our health. And today you can see that improvement clearly in large Chinese cities which were among the worst in the world no too long ago.

[@chrisfifield8583]

I always see the spread of misinformation on youtube, like scotty kilmer and dudes like that . I appreciate someone with personal experience . I always leave comments on there videos to prevent the spread of misinformation. I dont know if its confirmation bias , but i appreciate your honesty and integrity

[@paddylogan13]

I regularly do over 200miles in the UK driving a Kona electric. Range and charging are not an issue and the Kona is way slower charging than a Tesla.

[@crashandfreeze]

I have seen lines at charging stations. However, I drove an EV (not Tesla) LA to SF on the busiest driving day of the year, Thanksgiving Sunday, and didn't have to wait for a charger.

[@gogomogo3632]

Ben is back!!!

[@mjoelnir1899]

Porsche is actually with the highest percentage of electric cars sold in Germany, around 45% of their production is either a BEV or plug in hybrid with at least 40 miles on a charge.

[@RobertMcClure]

Hey Ben can you also cover the progression of ev motorcoaches and buses in your podcast? I recently leased a new ioniq 5 from Hyundai and I personally can't wait for the eventual arrival of electric motor coaches. I know it's not there yet but I love the technology that's coming.

[@robertmills1759]

As for PHEV, I loved the BMW i3 model. If you wanted pure EV, you just dont get the optional range extended. If you need more range, get it. I with the EV trucks were built around this model, I could go with a 200 mile EV truck battery, that could go where I needed or two whatever I needed by using the range extender in those instances. I had the i3 for 3 years and probably put gas in it 5 times, but it was so convenient those five times :)

[@168tsai8]

Supercharging in the middle of nowhere is definitely rarely congested (personal experience), but dang the kWh charge rate is way higher than what I Supercharge for normally. If you are older, you will remember when cell phones was rare, just like public payphones were once everywhere and nearly extinct now.

[@KrawnKam]

Aptera showed up to a car show and the vehicle was completely mobbed by onlookers.

[@santostv.]

Aptera is a pipe dream

[@jmontgomry1]

I drive to Florida from Ohio on 3 tanks of gas. Total lost time.....MAYBE 40 minutes. My sister tried it in her Tesla, 8 stops, added AT LEAST 8 hours to the drive time....and she almost had a range anxiety attack in the southern states. Not ready for prime time except in simple city driving.

[@Joe3545u]

Don't think that EV interest is dead but, there has been a softening in the market for the following: 1. Elon Musk's entry into politics has softened interest in Tesla especially for progressives that supported Tesla in the past for cleaner and green transportation. Performance Bro's could care less about Elon's politics and his mussing on X but over-all it makes a difference. 2. Resale values took a hit on EV's when Elon Musk dropped Model 3 and Model Y prices by $20K early 2023 in an effort to out price his OEM competition. Was successful as dampening interest in OEM EV's but at the same time cratered the used EV market and hurt resale value for Tesla owners. 3. Confusion in the DC Fast Charging infrastructure due to the introduction of NACS over CCS1. OEM EV's selling less as most wait until 2025 or 2026 for non Tesla Ev's to enter the market with NACS connectors. 4. Implementation of CCS1 to NACS adapters over Magic Dock implementation for the benefit of current CCS1 OEM users. The "Kiss the Ring" mentality to get a favorable spot for OEM Adapters and Tesla Super Charger use has added tons of confusion to an already repressed OEM EV market. GM was 2nd in line to Ford to "Kiss the Ring" yet, still no Tesla Super Charger access. 5. Poor OEM EV software development and reliability have added to the dampened interest on OEM EV sales along with issue of Super Charger access. Poor Electrify America performance has lead to uncertainty for DC fast charging of CCS1 OEM cars. Electrify America reliability looks to be improving in 2024 though. 6. GM's insistence in killing off access to Apple Car Play and Android Auto in favor of Android Automotive has mostly tuned off GM EV interest in by current Apple users. Switching from Android Auto to Android Automotive not as big of a deal for Android users as many of the same Apps are available in the Play Store. 7. VW recalls resulting in VW ID.4 stop sales for many new 2023's still on dealer lots. Software fix forthcoming but, who knows when, damping interest in VW ID.4 sales. 8. OEM EV software updates unreliable and bricking a percentage of cars, damping interest in these EV brands. Putting out reliable software updates on a timely basis is still a difficult task for many EV manufacturers. In conclusion, all of the above have lead to a dampening of interest in the current 2024 EV market place.

[@Bighomey103]

I have a Model 3 Performance and a C8 zo6. I think both can coexist.

[@NumbaOneI]

Having a home charger is a must. I have a gas and ev ford truck, and i use my ev every day for deliveries. It is very convenient and drives beautifully. Aftermarket batteries and companies will be a thing in the near future.

[@timholland1764]

Great video and thoughtful analysis - thanks for bringing some sanity to this space. In terms of plugins, I can share a quick story. Last year, my wife was in the market for a new car and we were discussing EVs l, but did not want a Tesla (for a number of reasons). We test drove the Kia EV6, the Volkswagen ID4, and we were on our way to try the Ioniq 5. My wife was like, I am really nervous about charging on road trips, and this was very relevant as our daughter was getting ready to go to college about 200 miles away. I was like, let's skip Hyundai and go to Toyota. We ended up with the RAV4 Prime. She loves it. We plug in every night (on a slow charger) and get about 40-50 miles of pure EV range every day. Most days my wife ends up using the full EV range and a little gas but she is averaging 64 miles/gallon including EV and hybrid. We have done road trips to Cape Cod, Washington DC, upstate NY, and Rhode Island in her car, and having the ability to gas up just makes her more comfortable. I will very likely buy a full EV for my next car, but the PHEV was perfect for my wife.

[@RuhelSSJ4]

How many times can uou superchage per day. Is there not a limit ro protect the battery?

[@representin614]

Driving from CA to MA in two and a half days is crazy. Not to mention, why not put those miles on a rental car?

[@mjoelnir1899]

I would look at plug in hybrid, if they have an electric drivetrain and a diesel or gas driven generator. I just love the way one can drive an electric car.

[@kevtheobald]

I have had a 2023 Model 3 RWD since June of 2023. No issues for 18,000 miles and counting. 99% charging at home. When I did a couple of long trips, nearly 500 miles in a day, just 25 minutes of fast charging to get me where I was going. EVs are the future, and it is coming sooner than later.

[@chadsmith9546]

I couldn't agree more. I love Doug's videos and generally agree with most of his opinions, but this one was a bit off to me. I love ICE and recently picked up a 10 month old etron GT at 40% discount. I know it'll still depreciate, but it is such a great way to experience what can be. Wife has a PHEV XC90, put 20k miles on it and maybe filled the tank 15 times. Most people don't drive as much as they think they do and immediate assume an EV won't work for them when they'd probably love it. However, I do get that it's an expensive gamble...

[@wcg66]

I’d like to see the rebirth of plug in hybrids. They exist and have for a while but fell out of favour for BEVs. However, for most use cases, PHEVs are perfect. We have a Prius Prime and drive it on EV about 80% of the time. If we could get more range in these PHEVs so that they cover most commutes, they would be a better fit for most people.

[@heribertosarmiento1265]

Boston to NJ done in hyundais and Kias...no issues. 18 minus from 20% to 80%

[@BudahOfBirmingham]

Heaviest flack is when you are near the target. I’m sure the steam industry screamed when they were replaced by the brilliant new infernal combustion engine, it was the superior way to make energy. Battery EVs are simply the best technology and they don’t emit a constant stream of poisonous gases, what a great bonus 😊

[@billa7266]

I’ve had a Chevy Volt since late 2012. Love that car. Still don’t know why there aren’t more like it out there and better advertised. I got a model 3 a year ago and gave the Volt to my high school aged kids to drive around. My wife has a regular hybrid Kia Niro. She’s nervous about converting all of our cars to EVs, thinks we shouldn’t put all our eggs in one basket so to speak. I’m still trying to find an excuse to take a long road trip or two in the Tesla to experience the charging first hand to see if it’s as bad as some say or as not a problem as others say. In any event my Volt has been great. Gas up when needed (every few months, more often in the winter), drive electric the rest of the time. It doesn’t launch like a Tesla, but is plenty spunky compared to the Saturn SL2 I was driving before that. 😂

[@JaMarThomasJTDATBOI30]

Appreciate the insight Ben

[@Infinitelight8888]

All I know is I charge my model Y here in the UK for £35 a month, ICE I used to spend £150 on average, my supplier is 100% renewable. Going solar soon at home and I'll be charging for free for my day to day commute. I know not everyone can charge from home let alone have solar panels but to me it works.

[@dr.richardmarrotte5433]

The size and expansion of the electric grid in the US is not at question, but outside of LA and California there are few street -side chargers and not as many superchargers.

[@danielmatheson7305]

Recency bias is less of an issue than technology changing so fast that range and charge speeds aren't an issue for those who follow along.

[@mikegipson1224]

Trouble with PHEV is that alot of owners don't actually plug them in...

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

Email me that data, would love to see more - [e-mail]

[@FidencioGarrido]

I think when Doug mentioned the 45 min to 2 hrs to charge, I think he is not just thinking of the actual charging time, but rather the whole experience. I drive an Ioniq 5, it charges really fast and I love that. But I would agree with Doug, setting realistic expectations, on my last road trip from Orange County to Phoenix, on Thursday 11 AM (not the peak of traffic), I spent about 2 hrs charging (accounting also for the time waiting for the cars ahead of me) in Blythe because Quartzsite's chargers were down and the closest station was that one that only provides ~60 kw/h. While that's not the norm (I've done several road trips), is also not too rare to ignore it, specially for non-tesla compatible cars.

[@BenSullinsOfficial]

Agree that without the supercharger network things can be more trying. Hopefully they open it up soon to Hyundai/Kia!

[@doseofdan1348]

With my Tesla, ive waited at a charger 3 times in 3 years for about 5-10 minutes luckily. Not sure of other chargers, but ive had great luck with Tesla Super Chargers. Also, Ben I met you at a Tesla service center. I just had gotten my Tesla and saw your peak design backpack. Thanks for saying hi. Huge fan of Tesla and Peak Design!

[@EnriqueAThieleSolivan]

That is the reason people around the world buy Teslas, no worries about charging in long trips. The application will always lead to a charger that is not in use.

[@grahamstefaan]

If you bought a Tesla and stopped trying to be cute saving 2k upfront charging would be a breeze.

[@stefanrus4723]

​@BenSullinsOfficial you said you like facts but I have noticed uhen it comes to EV you are bias and you are bending the truth little bit to fit your narrative. If you want rale facts I recommend to try to debate on of the videos that John Cadogan auto expert is making on the ev topics. Hi also likes facts, but his facts are more than a bit different than yours. My opinion is to let the people to decide because everyone knows what is best for him, and if the EVs are so good people will adopt them naturally. Just make them more attractive from all points of view.

[@Melchirobin]

Damn why this have so little views. In my opinion the biggest thing that shows we may have reached a plateau for EV adoption is the deals Tesla has right now and them renewing the referral program, like they certainly have data that is causing them to cut their prices by a huge margin in the past 2 years. Most other OEMs are also struggling with EV adoption in general since no one can compete with Tesla on price. I would mostly agree the most with Doug’s take.

[@ednixon]

Thsnks for the reply! and best of luck with the new place. The difference between Doug DeMuro’s audio which sounds normal and yours is rather dramatic. I’m sure you’ll get it fixed.

[@mathewherges397]

IMO, the plug-in hybrid is dumb, especially for the segment it preports to serve because these are value seeking buyers. The vast majority of them will eventually realize they didn't need the ICE part and should have just purchased a BEV to start with. With many of them realizing this in 4 - 5 years, they won't be able to sell them very easily and we'll see the value plumet faster than a BEV. I think the PHEV is just a way for legacy ICE manufacturers to stay relevant. I would never tell someone to buy one.

[@modquad18]

When my old Fox-watching neighbors discovered it was only costing me $24 to travel 1000 miles charging at home, and that my new, nicely-equipped Chevy eSUV only cost me $33k @ 0% APR, they beat feet to the dealership like it was happy hour at the sizzler. And I’ve pocketed $2k so far in referrals to my salesman. We are living in an insanely epic era folks 😎

[@SolomanTiger]

Plug-in hybrids are especially important in the underserved markets like mini-vans and trucks. I'm looking at the VW Buzz but currently have a plug-in hybrid Chrysler Pacifica. Its been really nice. EV trucks like the Chevy Silverado WT makes a lot of sense for local maintenance vehicles but for people who want to tow, I think plug-in hybrids like the ramcharger will be the way to go for a few years while battery density and pull through chargers catch up. (I know very few truck owners tow)

[@rp9674]

24 Prius Prime $33k 44mi EV range - not impressive, why does everyone rave about this, besides it's cute. 23 Chevy bolt was under $30k - 259 mi range. Prius should not be getting 7,500 Federal rebate, it's not even half an EV

[@davidsaunders6268]

I think that it would be interesting to compare the growth of EV sales on an annual basis to the growth of ICE vehicles over the same time frame. If EV sales have gone down by say 1% and I don’t know but ICE vehicle sales have decreased by 10% then the percentage of sales of new vehicles would still show growth in EV’s when compared to sales of all vehicles.

[@wudubora]

People care about their monthly car payment, not total COO. I am not saying they should care more about payments, but they do.

[@richardbutton1179]

I live in an apartment complex. And there are no plans what so ever to install charging stations in the next few years. Same with other people I know who live in apartments even high end luxury ones.

[@ericgonia265]

Hey Ben, can you put the name of your podcast in the description? I've not been where I can look it up the last two times you mentioned it and can't remember the name.

[@sean9421]

Ben, where do you surf?