ARE FLASH BANGS EFFECTIVE? A DISCUSSION ON DISTRACTION DEVICES FOR CQB

Flashbangs, distraction devices, NFDD, call them what you want but the concept is the same. They produce bright light, noise, and deflagrating devices produce a change in PSI that stuns persons in the immediate area/room.
Many teams utilize these types of devices, both law enforcement and military units. There a plenty of differences across LE/Mil, and teams, units, and branches in how they deploy DD’s.
Common differences include pulling the pin before or after looking/showing the DD to the first man, and the height of the “show” (relative to the first man’s face). Other differences include throwing the bang deep or deploying it on the threshold. Manpower, mission, environment, and liability drive these options. All of those factors fluctuate across branches, units, teams, departments, etc.
Some companies make “multi bangs” that deploy more than one “pop” per deployment of the device. For example, the infamous nine-banger.
For THIS video, we are using a couple types of non-ATF regulated “bangs”. The IWA M13 and the M12 multi bang are both shown. They are rated as pyro technic devices, making them civilian-purchaseable with no ATF paperwork. We also show the Airsoft Innovations training bang, which uses a .22 cal ramset. There are pros and cons to both.
If you’d like to purchase either of those, simply Google the company name and you’ll find multiple dealers and the main websites.
If you’d like to train with us, check out the website OrionTrainingGroup.com
For more data on our Instagram, follow @orion_training_group
For merchandise, check out OrionConcepts.Shop
Don’t forget to like and subscribe!

[@DeltaZuluActual]

Charlie enters chat with signature rake: “there can only be one!” 😂

[@stillenacht8518]

Yeah I thought that was Charlie for a second too 😹

[@therulesaredifferent8280]

Definitely did a double take.

[@jhutch1470]

Charlie was born on the Winter Solstice.

[@JEJAK5396]

Budget Charlie.

[@ArgosySpecOps]

"Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated."

[@rossriley2719]

You made a video about Flash Bangs, and instead of drinking a Bang, you chose a Celsius…. Disappointed.

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

😳📸

[@JohnDoe-wz7lw]

Thanks for explaining the PSI change, I was wondering if a flash bang would be effective against a deaf person if they weren't looking directly at it but it seems you've answered my question.

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Even Hellen Keller gon feel dat presha

[@ImperiumLibertas]

​@@oriontraininggroupllc2782 given her da bidness.

[@Rake5k]

You're doing such an amazing job explaining and demonstrating these things in your videos. Straight to the point, sticking to the facts, looking at pros and cons, great attention to detail. All while presenting yourself as calm professionals, but relatable and human. A+ guys, very much appreciate your work.

[@jw5297]

As a guy that has an inner ear imbalance, crystals in ear all displaced from breaching as a 12B it is important to train with bangs, as it throws off your equilibrium especially 9 bangers. If you’re planning on deploying one you gotta be able to work within its concussion

[@bikervlad]

If you’re looking for a good training bang, have a look at the Torc Precision SfDf. It’s made out of aluminium, comes with a pin and a spoon. It’s not as realistic as the Tagg or IWA, but it’s pretty good. Also, it uses the same primers as the Airsoft Invasions one. One downside to it, it’s an impact bang, meaning it’ll go off when it hits the floor. Up side tho, a lot easier to time the entry

[@zanosix9981]

I was going to write the same comment! I think they are more popular in EU than US

[@scottplagmann3411]

I.W.A. for the win! Love the m13 multibangs, going off at different intervals like they should!Great video!

[@dmoose7066]

Heads up, airsoft innovations is out of business, an alternative would be the royal arms training banger. Has a spoon but I believe it's impact activated, but I'd check on that. Thunder Bs is another option. It's a non pyro option. It gets the sound from a CO2 canister releasing and rupturing a plastic casing. Roughly 140 dbs. Has a spoon and a delay, much longer then a real one and isn't a controlled time but another option for the civilian market that cheap and readily available. EG67s by enola gaye is another pyro options, cheap and have to be bought at at a field and used at a field (technically). So slightly easier to get stateside then other options, but they don't look like a flashbang is a downside. Taginns are just hitting the states now, and are being released in drops from different retailers. Still semi difficult to get.

[@flokejm3904]

+1 on the ThunderB. A lot louder in person. Also try and not have them be on you when they go off. Had someone throw a thunderB onto my dad's shin in the middle of a game. He had a huge swell on his shin for a month or so.

[@50shadesofcerakote]

EG67s arent loud enough and break easy, I almost never recommend them. Cant tell you how many times Ive had one go off at my feet or above my head and Im just like, "oh ok." Thunder Bs are hella loud though, great for training or use in rooms. But they kinda suck outside cause theyre easy to lose, they can rocket 40ft away from where they pop. The Taggs FGB? I think is what it is, the 2.0 one, those things are fucking intense. They produce a shockwave, and blew out both of the mics on my buddies Peltor VIs

[@homie8437]

Taginn FBG-6s are fantastic. Evike and I think Amped has them.

[@brdagr]

Man can we get a video on maintaining a slick hairstyle through all the helmet and hat wearing? Feel like you guys always manage to look sharp no matter what but after 5 minutes of anything on my head its a mess. We need those tactical style tips!

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Filming in reverse 😂

[@servantofyeshua2313]

@@oriontraininggroupllc2782 lol

[@jhutch1470]

I'm bald on top. I keep my shower curtain buzzed super short. It works once in awhile.

[@JS-ed2hg]

I own quite a few different models and I can tell you that civilian legal are toned down quite a bit compared to other models. Great video guys stay safe

[@jamesdrakcip9276]

The main reason it disorients someone is from how the over pressure acts on the inner ear. The inner ear is responsible for balance. When youre wearing hearing protection, especially miffs over plugs, you wont feel the effect. Without it, you definitely do. Inside a room, the pressure is exponentially more as opposed to when youre outside. A small enough room and your drums may literally be perforated, which would affect your balance far beyond a few seconds. The other obvious effects aside from inner ear side effects are extreme startle, fear and the light's temporary effects on the eyes. Extreme startle causes a delay in response and deviation from focus. Those multi-bang devices are great, especially for big rooms - affords you more distration time to get a bigger team in to cover more angles. Throw a 9 banger into each room though and youre sure to start a fire

[@demonhanzohattori]

Great info there. Thanks for dropping that gem 💎.

[@Oblio1942]

one thing about bangs I have a theory on that the most effective part is the auditory hindrance. Anyone whos had a concussion, or ruptured eardrums, or even a simple hangover knows how disorienting and unbalancing loud noises can be. Point on fact every time Ive had a concussion, which is 3 medically documented times but maybe more from football, I was very sure to take a shower at night rather than my usual morning shower or sitting down in the shower in the morning because if I closed my eyes with the shower running Id start swaying so much that I could fall and crack my head open. Add a bright flash to your deafness that blows out your retinas and keeping balance and a clear mind is near impossible. The Ears and regulating pressure to your brain are just so important that when it gets a tiny bit affected you turn into bamby

[@Dirigo.Development]

YOU'LL NEVER BE CHARLIE

[@billangell6478]

As a civilian, I just empty an air cheetah into the room to change the PSI..

[@bellicostevet1388]

I've been on both sides of a BAng so I'd have to say they are effective and I knew how to respond to one the others weren't so lucky. We always threw more than one on operations often on one room and vehicles during takedowns as well. Even better is a SMAW threw a mud wall!

[@alexanderb5644]

It was lost on me why the bangs were deployed at the doorway when Jason's piece on the OODA loop made it sound like it was ideal to disorient the opposition away from you

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

People look at doors when expecting entry, deploying it where they’re looking could be useful but that’s a debate. Also, for LE liability deploying it where you can see is important

[@alexanderb5644]

@@oriontraininggroupllc2782 got it, thanks

[@LordPerique]

@@oriontraininggroupllc2782 yeah the flashbang in the baby crib incident is still fresh in many people's minds. You really dont want to be in the docket while those images are shown to the jury.

[@jhutch1470]

I have done the "grab, twist, pull," and the "pull really hard." Both were done while nobody could see me. I feel much better now.

[@lbcelica]

It’s usually better if somebody else does it for you though.

[@jhutch1470]

@@lbcelica That's true. I just can't remember her name.

[@AlexHasAnAxe]

Very informative 👌 Like the cozy living room feel 😁

[@beeffectivepodcast5688]

Love the shirt, Jason.

[@racex428]

I've been hit with the good ones at ft.bragg... pay back for mag dumping hot brass on a raid in a guy that wears a green berets sleeping bag...😆 🤣 😂...they work awesome 👌

[@user-uk1eb7hh6u]

Great video! My one complaint is there wasn't enough time after jokes for my lodr loop to reset, (laugh observe die respawn). I was still laughing every time losing valuable info.

[@freneticfanatic]

I have Taggin's fgb6 and used it on an outdoor range. Seems like it would work irl in a car or structure. Another option is a very potent distraction is an OC aerosol grenade. I've heard great things about them in combination with a smoke in enclosed spaces.

[@olivedrab1]

Good info as always thanks fellas

[@jaredmcconnell1032]

Awesome video! Thanks for the info

[@roland.training1904]

Damn, y’all good at teaching. As a citizen/ civilian, I learned a ton here. Question: since you’re entering as the bangs are going off, this means that you’re exposing yourself to the effects of the DD. Does this mean you just are eating those effects and ignore/ override or are there tools used to keep yourself from being negatively affected?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

If you know it’s coming it’s easier to mitigate. Just like an explosive breach. The team stacked outside takes all the PSI delta from the charge. Just a factor trained vs untrained

[@scottplagmann3411]

You are anticipating it and as possible using ear protection . This stresses the importance to train frequently using bangs

[@dudedog884]

@@scottplagmann3411 quiet down poser, not only was nobody asking you but the pros already answered his question. Now go back to your armchair little one before you get slapped around.

[@ianthompson5678]

1. Know it's coming. 2. Habitual exposure thru training. 3. Ear pro. Single or double

[@AJPMUSIC_OFFICIAL]

Great stuff

[@MrJbrew69]

Cheesy mustache contest brewing in OTG?

[@lethal_engagement_solutions]

Good info! I like what you guys are doing.

[@roflchopter11]

17:00 they burns infants when you throw them in the crib with them, too.

[@wm.riley3]

What's in the box?! That just earned a sub. 🤣

[@jacobagnew8111]

You could also use the Thunder B airaoft grenade, they are mostly reusable, have a spoon and run on CO2 cartridges

[@jamesjames1174]

For a second I thought Charlie showed up 🤦‍♂️ what a disappointment, great vid though.

[@deleted997]

IWA They'll make your floor look like a bad guy's shorts in 4 seconds or less!

[@jhutch1470]

This video just came back into my feed. I am now wondering, do you know why the government would be allowed to have stronger stuff than we can have?

[@brandongill7125]

We got a Chris Evans mustache contest going on here??

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Idk who that is but I’d wager mine wins

[@scottdixon2697]

I feel like the dude in the blue shirt is what Lt. Dangle if he actually did something with his life.

[@bradplylar6734]

Check out the Pamax Tactical L.I.O.N. They are reusable and use a 9mm or 12ga blank that detonates on impact.

[@willivonfromhold4524]

Question... Why did they give you the 1/4 power flashbangs???....

[@GuyParody]

If they were not effective they wouldn't be banned from civilian use.

[@KIWIDOGGIE]

Awesome

[@defaultdummy245]

Hey its Tall Chris Costa

[@psychopathmedia]

IWA isn't "civilian legal" since they want you to jump through hoops to get them. May as well be a DD at that point

[@platinumcontent9]

Question, Does constantly being exposed and concussed to Flash Bangs casue long, or short term damage?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Yes

[@JG_1998]

100% yes. The instructor who did my LTC class was a SWAT operator in a major city for almost 20 years. He said that all the entries/training with flashbangs had damaged his hearing quite a bit and he wish he had worn ear protection (although there will still be some hearing damage even with earpro).

[@thefamilybrit]

In a civilian preparedness group, if we wanted to have flashbangs for real life use, not training, what would be the most effective ones that we can legally own? Or are all the training ones so toned down that it's not a worthwhile pursuit?

[@ProCat4displaysPlus]

TLD GR-20 or GR-60 3 Bang would be the best options.

[@Destroyer_Dave]

OODA Loop- Col. John Boyd USAF

[@kinnonlindsey2502]

I was literally just about to comment that. Thanks for beating me to the punch.

[@ct5465]

Airsoft “bangs” don’t do anything besides pop. There is no psi change, light etc etc. But if it’s some sort of situation that’s outside of an airsoft sport or people you’re worried for, a commercially available firework mortar would do those things… allegedly

[@supplycoffee9219]

It’s still changes psi. You do know how explosions work right?

[@ct5465]

@@supplycoffee9219 not enough to do anything. Therefore, they don’t have the desired effect.

[@zetamale7952]

For tactical team, yes. For civilians, no.

[@brianmoore5138]

Flash bangs are great but ya can’t find em ANYWHERE! Like I can’t find em in stock ANYWHERE

[@teamworkers_hub]

smoke and ir scopes best

[@MyzticFriend]

What kind of horizontal mag-pouch you got on that belt? 😯

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

That’s an Esstac

[@roflchopter11]

Why do you have the first man go into the corner he has already mostly seen?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Go watch our other videos on buttonhook vs flow

[@michaelnyden8056]

I’ve used all of these in training, they each have their merits as addressed in this video. Iwa will get expensive quick but is most realistic. They didn’t cover the thunder B which is popular in Airsoft but relies on co2 cartridges that have to be loaded just right. The taggin are banned from import due to Russian sanctions so good luck finding those anywhere. Same goes for enola Gaye that makes the smokes, their flash bangs are basically impossible to find anywhere but are a good value proposition in training. Something to note, Iwa also has their m12 and others they didn’t show but also the Airsoft innovations you can use different powder levels of ramset cartridges.

[@scottplagmann3411]

FYI, have heard from the USA distro that Taginn will be available again very soon!

[@GraphixHurricane]

How the fuck do y'all only have 17k subscribers

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

We’re only 5 months old. Spread the word!

[@jhutch1470]

@@oriontraininggroupllc2782 You shouldn't be handling bangs at 5 months old. They could end up in your crib.

[@ruthlessreviews1283]

Mitchell, you’re the store brand of Charlie that poor people would buy. Have some standards bud

[@mariahunter1386]

What kind of eyewear are you using while you deploy the flashes I haven’t been able to find them at all 🤔

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Those are for the memes, it’s Yeetz Offical lol

[@nik_5561]

What kind of pouch is that black one on your carrier? 🥴 needing something similar that’s not too big

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Some crap off Amazon

[@supplycoffee9219]

It is possible to be desensitized to the effects of flashbangs after being in a war scenario or constant use of guns etc right?

[@fragout9575]

No, not possible...

[@Brennan.P]

do flashbangs have a place in civilian environments that arent milsim or recreational?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Depends on the situation I suppose

[@realghostactual]

Id say - good luck getting one lol. I think the ATF does define an actual flashbang as an "explosive device". IWA does make some FANTASTIC recreational ones. Id look into those

[@justinfarris5584]

As a normal Florida man civilian, I own many, and have deployed many. Not inside, but even outside. I used one for a trip wire after I caught someone on camera snooping around my sheds. Left outside in Florida weather for 1 year straight. 90 degrees, rained every day, exposed directly to sun. Survived one hurricane until the tree it was attached to finally fell, setting off the M13, so it survived two hurricanes basically also. These are legit. If someone breeches my door, I have a long hallway, obviously my firearms are by my nightstand 1 foot from my head. But I also keep an M11 multibang there too, safety off. Just incase the door is breeched I can quickly throw it down the hallway (they can’t see into my bedroom. This may buy you precious seconds, or probably 99% of the time cause the intruder to bolt because they are going to think they are getting shot at or just stepped into a trap of some sort. They aren’t going to know what’s going on. But usually, when loud popping starts, they’ll bolt. So it may save you from actually having to use your lethal weapons. Think of it like a non lethal form of defense of your home. Like pepper spray or a good camera setup. If that gets them to bolt, great, if not, it will buy me a second or two to holster my pistol and shoulder my AR instead of grabbing the pistol off the nightstand while laying down. I can toss that down the hallway to my front door from bed. So like OP mentioned, it depends on your specific situation. But it definitely isn’t going to HURT to have a few. Notice I didn’t say one lol. IWA does make you buy three items for any purchase on smokes or bangs. So any order from them is going to be in the $130+ range. I live super close to them, so shipping is fast. But I’ve set off quite a few and they work every time, no duds in the bunch. I will say it’s hard to tell on video, but the M13 single bang is much much louder than the multi. But the multi you also get a longer duration of bangs. So it’s up to you to decide. Either one will distract an unknowing common street thug for sure, but the multibang may buy you 4/5 seconds more. Which obviously could be critical, or just cause them to turn and run right back out before you even have to fire a round. So definitely something to think about. I would say it is 100% worth having to anyone who wants to be prepared for a home invasion type situation, or even use as a tripwire to alert you or wake you up if unwanted guest sneak through the woods into your backyard. Hope this helps somewhat.

[@MellowFellowOfYellow]

Nice job charging into a dead corner at 0:25

[@justinarnold4462]

Can't find airsoft innovations available anywhere. Any suggestions?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Apparently they went out of business right after we made this video

[@MbisonBalrog]

Against those inexperienced hell yes

[@johnneill5960]

Threw one on a guy taking a dump in a porta Jon in Iraq , he shit himself…. And then came running out pants down , needless to say he was less than thrilled

[@matthewsilcox9687]

"we've found your injury to be non-service connected"

[@marcelschatzle4905]

Hi, What are glasses you using in the end of the video?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Yeetz

[@OverlordRobot]

Nice birth control glasses!

[@NiMi93]

Ever used the L.I.O.N by Pamax? Thoughts?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

Never heard of it

[@scottplagmann3411]

That is our goto reusable bang. We like that it can go from 209primers all the way to a 12ga blank. They are very sturdy and PAMAX definitely stands by their products. Only drawback is that they are impact activated, no spoon or fuse.

[@mysticjedi6730]

Go sas style. Deploy tear gas, all unit members wear mask..

[@duanecastle5639]

💯%🤣/💀 6:30 …”is it gonna happen??”

[@realghostactual]

Idk whats up with those stock placements guys but i think you should turn to some professionals to fix that. T-rex arms offers some amazing advice on that. *edit*: This is sarcasm...for those who dont know how to deceiver sarcasm out of text on a screen.

[@TheVinceZampella]

bro what

[@realghostactual]

@@TheVinceZampella it was a joke bro. I thought my sarcasm was really clear and obvious but I guess it wasnt 😂

[@SNAKEEATER1776]

First of all, you did it wrong. Throw it in the corner to draw out a threat in the unknown corner. Second, 9-bangers are better than single bangs. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@GoWokeGoBroke2023]

lmao Indoor lights on NODS jesus

[@Thuggle_Bus]

Thought yall were saying ooda lube. For her pleasure.

[@alextatkin1026]

Airsoft Innovations is dead and rightfully so. These scumbags took big $$$ for a product that made them go bankrupt. Tons of ppl got robbed.

[@sgtpecker7092]

How much do I have to train with you guys to figure that I should muzzle my friend as I enter the room?

[@oriontraininggroupllc2782]

I don’t see anyone getting muzzled in this video

[@cam6532]

Kinda flashed urself at the end. It’s alright tho cause your ears are protected but the goal is to disorient your opposition first before entering a room. Doing it while works too but seems like it would be a little less effective if ur trying not to get shot

[@newinhuman]

fake