Are Foil Drive and Stoke Foil Assist Worthy of the Hype?

[@geoffnicholls8539]

I’ve owned a Gen1 FoilDrive+ for about a year, using it on a prone board, after 2 years of winging in a windy city. My experience is that it IS just like the videos, it is that good, and I haven’t bothered winging since I bought it. It was easy to learn, too. Sitting outside a crowded surf line-up and riding swell, exiting before getting near the surfers, again and again and finally leaving the water with thrashed legs from pumping. Who wouldn’t want to do that?

[@mikeb1039]

Thrashed legs = fit as f*** and legs strong and muscular. Who wouldn't want that?

[@garys2149]

The big take away is no interaction with regular surfers in the line up. No more surfers complaining. Win for everybody

[@jcpetrey]

I’ve had Foil Drive Assist Plus for 10 months and liked it so much I now have Gen2. Your description of issues is not at all what I experienced with Foil Drive. Great company that is super responsive to customers and a solid product. I’m using it to surf swell and waves that I could never do without Foil Drive. I’ve used it in light wind winging as well - conditions too light to get on foil. When there is no wind and no waves I’m using it to practice flat water pumping. I now am on the water having the time of my life whether or not there is enough wind to wing or kite.

[@foilfanatic]

The Foil Drive Gen2's are amazing and work flawlessly with most boards. Some of the boards with carbon tracks are the exception, but I think there are some work arounds. If you want to see the REAL world learning curve, just look at my shorts videos posted since May. I could not stand up without a wing when I first got mine. Now I am riding these prone in conditions that were impossible for me to wing in(too large to get the wing through the pound). The powered duck dives on the Gen2 get me through difficult shore break and then allow me to connect wave after wave. I learned how to pump using this gear. The Gen2 Max allows me to do Downwinders on a 44L Axis Pump and a smaller foil. I have indeed turned professional, but I would not be here without the Foil Drive and at 50, that in itself is pretty nuts! 🤙

[@REALmattnuzzo]

That is so awesome. Thanks for sharing your success stories. There is no question that power assets foiling is happening and will be relevant into the future.

[@foilfanatic]

🤙That is very cool! Thanks for sharing!

[@foilfanatic]

@@heudoi75 I push several shorts out per week and one or two long form videos per month here: www.youtube.com/@foilfanatic

[@NickHolub]

Worth the hype for sure - ditch the wing and ride waves free (or downwind). Will still see if I use it for winging (that's a lot of gear to assemble) but definitely helps to get into foil surfing (using Foil Drive gen2).

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Yeah we have had some killer prone sessions with power assist. Really excited to see where this sport goes!

[@grendel95]

Great video to bring folks back to reality with assisted foiling, it has it's own learning curve and hangups. I'm about a year into ownership of a foil drive and I have nearly as many "shocker" sessions as "dream" sessions.

[@REALmattnuzzo]

As an owner, you get it that these things are legit and super fun. Open doors to sessions that would not have happened before. There are also specific techniques and skills you will need to learn to set up and ride your rig too. We are fired up to be on this wild foiling journey and always stoked to take donuts learning something new.

[@Kleeblatt2304]

Thank you for your honest comment.

[@Kipperblakeley]

such a helpful video. THANK YOU for making this!

[@503Foil]

Making the jybe in light wind is the hardest. Did you make that jybe in the opening sequence?

[@alexioflexio8818]

what a super helpful video. thank you. especially for someone starting to wingfoil i'm deciding whethr to purchase ths.

[@nico9112]

Great video, very instructive thanks Would you recommend the stoke system for prone foiling or would you recommend another system?

[@windaddict]

Thanks for this honest take. It's what I thought: early stage in the development. Waiting a year or two for this to mature makes a lot of sense. Also they are just way too expensive for my taste

[@leapnlarry]

Im headed to obx camping at Frisco for 3 weeks for kiting and winging. Im considering the foil drive to progress to prone foiling without a wing in the surf. i have elbow tendinitis from kiting and winging so assisted foiling my be my only way to get on water as much as possible. Im going to drop by real and see which assisted systems you have to offer. Larry

[@chadkeener2827]

You just saved me 5k so… thank you 😂 another thing I was wanting it for was to help pull me through my jibes as a easy button but I guess with that torque might actually make it harder lol I’ll put my money towards a DW board instead! Thanks!!!

[@aquilesmasdmd]

Spend your money better on a lesson with a professional. A downwind board presents its own challenges

[@robertovillate]

great honest review!

[@HandyCapito]

Very interesting and honest. Is it possible to get on foil with the Stoke, without any pumping or wing ? Is the power enough for someone heavy 90 kg ? About the nose lift, may be a rake plate -1 /-2 degrees will help ? Thanks

[@kippywylie]

With my Lift efoil the most difficult part about this is when the drive needs to power off as I'm up on foil ready to glide without assist. The trigger-off often instantly makes a faceplant because it's tricky to quickly adjust the pitch. Did you notice trouble at that point? Thank You Matt, been following you since the first days of kiteboarding

[@christophemeletiou9078]

Nothing will ever replace the satisfaction of mastering a sport through practice and persevirence but, I can see a few uses for this foil assist without looking like a kook. 1) An alternative to tow foiling, cheaper and more Eco friendly than using a jet ski and also complete independance. 2) I am a fan of dock/ladder starts on a foil. With foil assist no need to find a dock or set up and carry a ladder. 3) Catching and foiling on 1 foot waves on with short board. Impossible otherwise.

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Yeah have seen a lot of lake riders have success with foil boost rather than dock starting. They can also ride smaller more efficient foils than what you need to dock start.

[@henryhester1897]

How about “this beats 40+ sessions (wing, paddle, flat and surf) without it flying yet”. And I’ve gone 9’x30” I did fly a bit with FD2.

[@garys2149]

Ive never seen anyone ever use it for winging, if the wind is so light that a longer board and bigger wing cant get you up, stay home. I do see everyone using it for downwind on much smaller boards, ditching the paddle. Ive seen it to get in early outside the line up to catch waves never accessible and not have to have any interaction with surfers. Biggest win for both, no more ban the dangerous sword boards from just about every surfer thats ever had a foil near miss.

[@elchiminero]

the obsolescence curve is way to steep on these things at this point in time for the cost/benefit. . . . wait for the Amp.

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Seems like the guys I know using the proto Amps are really struggling. You loose thrust as soon as the board leaves the water which causes the board to nose dive and the rider to eat crap. In my experience you definitely want the power coming from down the mast so the transition from powered to no power and on foil is easier.

[@n8ludwig]

What size Mast are you riding?

[@IkertxoTursi]

It is the absolute worst of all foil discipline combinations to use an e-assist like the FD with the wing! The absolute best combination is the Foil Drive(or something similar) with a small prone board. The maneuverability and pumping with that setup is amazing. I have caught big head high ocean rollers that would have been only possible with a jet ski tow-in prior. The FD has enough power to get you out in a prone board and motor you to the waves. In the same day I have wing foiled (with my regular wingboard) and ridden with the foil drive (with my prone board) and had fun with both. My recommendation is if want to wing don't use the foil drive and if you want to use the foil drive don't grab a wing. Don't mix those two, the wing will be a total nuisance. For downwinding with a regular DW board I would say it is 50/50. If you have the FD, you just don't need he DW. FYI, I'm not sponsored by FD, I just have been searching for that missing link in the foil disciplines to cover more conditions and I think this type of hybrid foiling devices are the answer for the muti-disciplined foiler.

[@REALWatersports]

Noted, thank you! We will keep testing things out, this will likely be a recurring topic in the future as we get more staff trying it out in different applications around the island

[@martinminar1949]

Matt, do you like your Xcel wetsuit more than O'neil?

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Good eye. I have been really enjoying the Xcel suits I got this season. I have been testing the Comps and the Drylock. This is their Comp suit and it is warmer and more durable than the Hyperfreak in a similar size. Xcel is not quite as stretchy but feels like it will last longer. The Xcel is harder to get in and out of than the Hyperfreak. So is the Xcel better.... Will need a full season to make that call, but we are off to a good start!

[@michaelmoore-bk3ft]

Tottaly agree​@@REALmattnuzzo

[@bikesbeersbeats]

I love my xcel drylock.

[@JPPBOX]

These powered options are exciting even in their infancy. I haven't see any direct comparisons between the foil drive and the stoke yet, but I'd imagine FD is ahead when it comes to power delivery given the size of the batteries and the 3 blade prop for more torque. I'd love to see some coverage about downwinding conditions on the OBX - there's lots of info about the great spots in Australia, Hawaii, hood river, and even FL thanks to the unifoil guys down there. What's the scoop on the OBX Oceanside and sound for pure or SUP DW?! Do the epic kiteboarding downwinders translate to foil? Can we hang with FL at least?😅

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Yeah the Stoke and FD2 are really different products at different price levels and we feel for different purposes. Once we get more time on both, we will put our thoughts. As to the DW in Hatteras... Yes the home of the kiteboarding downwinder does translate to DW. We have been doing them for quite a few years prone and started on the DW boards last summer. Not a lot of people going but it can get really fun. The best seems to be strong SW days going DW on the north side of the island. Any wind direction works. The biggest challenge on bigger days is getting out through the heavy beach break. We have also been training paddles ups in Wing Hole with foil assist and then powering back to the top of the hole for the next run. Great way to get some laps.

[@JPPBOX]

@@REALmattnuzzo Thanks for the info - so rad! I love seeing the constant innovation in this sport right now - takes me back to those early bowkite years - 2006-2010 or so. I never understood the appeal of this foil stuff with kiting (I guess it saves your knees from chop) until I saw some of the downwinding footage and people linking waves up from prone - two super exciting frontiers! Stoked to hear that Hatteras still has the goods for DW!

[@surfinjim]

Thank you for this video. As a windsurfer with no real foiling experience and no boat to learn on, I'm very tempted, but I don't quite understand how you handle the remote. In your video it looks like you have a brain implant 😀 In reality I think the remote is an extra hassle to handle. I already struggle a lot with my 2 leashes, the remote probably adds another level of difficulty 😀

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Handling the remote is one of those technique and customization issues that we mention in this video, and it is different per sport that you are doing. The cool thing is that once you get your set up dialed, then you can focus on your technique. It will take some time investing in learning this, but once you have your set up, you have power to boost you on to foil or drive yourself back upwind. .....And yes, I have the controller implanted in by brain. 😆

[@DavidSpragg]

Matt... dude... you're freaking me out powering on with your legs dragging in the water. I think this is a bad idea. I'm new to Foil Drive (only 10 sessions on it), but I think the way to go is powering out while laying on the board, kneeling, or whatever, such that your legs and feet are nowhere near the prop when the finger is on the trigger.

[@marekkaniewski8789]

I agree.

[@REALmattnuzzo]

🙏 Noted. Thank you for the concern. On this DW board, the prop is about 2-3' farther back from where my feet are when they are in the water. Shorter boards... no question the safest position to do this will be kneeling.

[@aquilesmasdmd]

When the foil drive team came to Armstrong and said hey our product is having trouble with your full carbon boards you might want to make some small design changes to adapt with the new expanding assist market, Armstrong gave them the finger. Now Armstrong is paying the price with connectivity issues. Your bias towards Armstrong gear is very evident here and Armstrong gear has not adapted with the new market of e products like other brands have.

[@REALmattnuzzo]

Hmm. Not too sure about this one. Will try to unpack and share the info we have on this subject as it seems there is a lot of wrong info out there. The reality of this situation does not seem to be as dramatic as this comment reads. Having talked extensively with FD and Armstrong, your comments do not seem to be the case. The team at FD and Armstrong are awesome people that are stoked on foiling. They have no bad blood as you are portraying. Per what FD told us, they vetted all boards including three versions and models of Armstrong board. They had no connectivity issues during testing. They are professionals at FD and instinctively use the best techniques for how to get on and ride the board. They no longer make beginner mistakes on how to set up, start, connect and ride with FD. This is one of the reasons that we wanted to put this video out. There is a learning curve to power assist foiling. It is not as easy as it looks on instagram. Is it fun and relevant?? Oh YEAH! Once the FD2 came to market, they started to get consumer feedback that there was some connectivity issues with some customers that have boards with carbon tracks. Most of these issues were with really low volume boards that could not have their nose out of the water. FD said the signal transmits through the board and out the nose. They also found with SUP down winding that if the controller was on the top hand of the paddle and as far from the FD as is possible, the signal sometimes would not connect through full carbon boards with that distance. They found that most carbon board connectivity issues can be corrected with an alteration in technique. FD is actively working on a solution for stronger connectivity that should be resolved in the near future. Many people have asked us why Armstrong and some other brands have gone to carbon boxes, and it is for strength. The most common damage to boards is that boxes break. Carbon boxes solves for this. Speaking to my personal choice to foil mostly Armstrong gear..... I work and ride for REAL. That means I can ride any boards, kites, wings, foils on the market. Products we stock and don't. It is an amazing opportunity to ride and test all brands. I ride a lot of Armstrong gear because it works best for what I like to do, it is strong and there are no corrosion or durability issues. Thanks for your message and sorry for the long response. We feel it is important to share the info we have being good or bad. Foiling is amazing, and we are stoked for all the great people we get to meet and sessions we get to take. ✌

[@foildrive]

​@@REALmattnuzzo No bad blood at all between Foil Drive and the Armie crew! A small number of boards with carbon tracks currently are having experiencing some connectivity issues, but we're close to a solution for this. Foil Drive is all about adapting and being compatible with whatever gear you want to ride, as the sport and gear progresses and changes, so do we.

[@alchemybuild]

@@REALmattnuzzo They have an antenna now for carbon track boards. Annoying to buy something extra though.

[@starmania909]

too bad these company's make them such a pricy ripoff