Are Force-Free Trainers Dog Abusers?

[@brittanyouldcott2912]

Wow what a jump to make that kind relationship building is abuse??? Gotta say that sort of mentality, and the general force based mentality is why I'm very hesitant when I see American trainers. I've come so far with my rescue through a year of force free relationship building, turning her into a contented happy loyal dog. I hope to see more displays of force free training on display showing people that its the way to train!

[@Jason-un9ps]

Why would you assume most American trainers are like that?

[@brittanyouldcott2912]

@@Jason-un9ps I grew up in the states and moved to Europe when I was 18. American culture is baseline barbaric and prone to cruelty and force. I remember growing up thinking electric collars and invisible fences were normal. Declawing cats was a thing my friends had done to their pets. Most American trainers I have heard of or interacted with online think prong collars are acceptable whereas most of the rest of the world heavily frowns on them. Ecollars are illegal in the rest of Europe but still are normal in the US. Im sure there are some good trainers in the US but the American culture does damage a person's reputation in the rest of the world as it has evidenced itself to be and ignorant barbaric culture full of cruelty and a refusal to listen to science. That's the unfortunate reputation America has created for itself. I try my very best when out and about to sound and act as little like someone born in America as possible, because of how bad the reputation of American culture is.

[@slightlycrummy]

This is just another example of someone attempting to fabricate truths so that they make piece with their own behaviors that might not be the best way rather than adapting to new knowledge. I fully believe in force-free and positive reinforcement training but If I found out tomorrow that +R was harming my dog, it would really be hard to change and adapt but I would not hesitate to try and learn a better way.

[@SaraOndrako]

You hit the nail on the head. There’s no room for ego in growth and we are all constantly learning and adapting in our practice. To succeed in an occupation with living creatures. Open-mindedness is a must.

[@islandgypsy1096]

Cooperative relationship! Yes!

[@moondropflower9957]

Honestly i trained my dog force free and she was an excellent service dog. She never had any behavior issues and i helped train my friends dogs similarly (though obviously not for service) and they all had good behavior and stopped alot of thier bad behaviors they used to have. I only imagine the need to use force on a dog is if they are attacking someone or something. But maybe people just arent around service dogs so they just cant see it.

[@drawitout]

I would like to learn more about force-free training. My friend has a dog she learned to train this way, but I am seeing serious behavioural problems with the dog. However, I believe the real problem is my (lovely) friend. The dog is very pushy and demanding for treats and any other needs. She seems to believe that if she makes the dog do a trick for the treat she’s barking for, she will associate the treat with the trick and not her barking. It is very apparent to me that this is not the case. It took me 3 days with the dog to change her behaviour toward me. I started to turn away from her and stand completely still ignoring her every time she barked or got pushy (including nipping and pushing my butt with her very large snout). She stopped behaving that way. Now she’s almost perfectly behaved with me all day. As soon as her owner comes home from work, the bad behaviour starts, and she nips/bites her owner sometimes. I can’t convince her to ignore her. Because she got force-free training, she doesn’t seem to want to listen to my suggestions.

[@TalsBadKidney]

WAT? WAT? WAT? WAT? WAT? .... when my friends give me food I thank them, and I want to return the favor lol

[@SaraOndrako]

And think of all the gatherings with friends and family that leave you with the feel goods - it’s usually over a good meal!

[@michelewood925]

Yes but dogs in a frantic or stressful state of mind may not take food. My dog refuses food when she is stimulated which is anytime she’s outside. We take the same walk every night and she’s still hyper stimulated. Food wasn’t the fix for her reactivity. We’ve been working for 6 months walking and avoiding and if one thing goes wrong she will still react. I’ve just started a group class with people who train service dogs. Exposing her to dogs and people and she’s doing better faster than the other way.

[@jalek626]

Why do you even waste your time with those comments. The results of your work is enough.

[@phalanxk9]

The term “force free” is just some BS marketing term instead of saying “positive only”. Dogs learn similarly to most mammals, not giving that reactive dog at the end of a leash trying to attack someone or another dog any sort of negative reenforcement or positive punishment and “distracting it with a treat” is doing nothing but rewarding that bad behavior. But people will just continue to peddle nonsense and say the “poor dog” when In reality they actually are abusing the dog by only teaching it one quadrant of learning. this is no different than people who feed their dogs vegan diets 🙄

[@SaraOndrako]

Wow. That's quite a leap. You do you friend.

[@phalanxk9]

@@SaraOndrako this is the real world, it doesn’t take a genius to recognize a scam when you see one🤷🏻‍♂️

[@hamseyasaad5363]

Going off that clip you first put of that guy who said force free trainers are dog abusers. I dont think he's refering to all force free trainers (at least would be foolish to suggest so). Theres a small minority of force free trainers on the far left that handicap a dogs development for their own ideology and refuse to allow the dog to have a full filled life cause they wont venture out to what the dog needs becuase they wont practise it for their own moral quandries (Such as using a slip lead). You can also say the same for the small minority of old school far right trainers that only train through compulsion methods and are not willing to adopt modern techniques. Are those radical believers on both sides dog abusers? Im gonna have to say Yes. Cause often times a chain reaction follows where a dog owner is let down by being led to believe their dog is unfixable and put down. When if you looked all the quadrants of operant conditioning you may have solved a long standing problem where the solution was staring at them in the face the whole time.

[@solidus1995]

Mutual relationship as long as you have food to offer up to your master dog BIG CHUCK ALPHA MCBRIDE

[@coryc1904]

You seriously hate old people with traditional values?? GADZOOKS that was alienating when you said you hate older people and traditional old fashioned people.

[@SaraOndrako]

Never ever said I hate older people and traditional old-fashioned people. Not even close. I don't hate anyone, actually and I'm very fond of senior citizens - much more so than younger people ;) They have a lot to teach us. What I'm no fan of is outdated methodology. We all need to learn and grow in our practice.

[@DaleMcCluskey]

Force Free Radicals can't help but engage this way because they are already in a defensive position.

[@Dougn57]

As an old guy... FORCE FREE IS ABUSE!! Force free is abuse because it keeps the dogs confused and anxious.

[@SaraOndrako]

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